I have watched a few videos that included the removal to the cam cover, cam and crank gears, and oil pump assy. This video is the most user friendly vid to watch. It does not go too fast, very descriptive, AND it includes all the torque values! Great job!
Hey brother. You need more videos. You are truly amazing at explaining everything. I am an Aircraft mechanic in the Air Force, I taught the military my job for 5 years and now I’m upgrading my cam on my 114 M8. Your instructions are excellent and super detailed. I think if you put more time into this you would have a lot of success! Thanks SO much for the great video!
After FINALLY finishing my 1983 FXWG ( with the help of my big brother ) I spent 5 thousand dollars and couldn’t be happier . I made the mistake of test riding a 2018 ( in 2018 ) FXLR Low Rider … Due to ( 3 ) spinal surgeries , I fell in love with the new frame’s suspension ! So - they offered me 10 thousand dollars towards this $14,995.00 brand new machine . Being in my 60’s , I felt like I couldn’t refuse such an incredible offer ; as it presumably will be my last Harley to own , why not go brand new and be - “ trouble free “ ! Well here we are , and although I have for 44 years of messing with 13 different Harley’s since the 1970’s , ALWAYS respected S & S for their superior engineering ; little did I expect to be SO DISAPPOINTED THAT THE MOTOR COMPANY SCREWED UP AGAIN ! I am so disillusioned ! Over 120 years AND still doing this low quality type of output … THEY SHOULD STEP UP TO THE PLATE AND DO A RECALL AND OFFER THIS S & S upgrade for free ! Rat bastards !!!!
Hey man I know this is 3 years old as I write this but that was the best video yet of how to change out the cams plate and other parts. You took the time to break things down and didn't jump steps with loud music in the background. Please keep these videos coming and keep actually explaining how to step by step. I own an older 103 and want to upgrade hope it's not much different than your video. Thanks.
Just stumbled on your videos and I must say they are extremely well put together with detailed information. Watching them I could almost pass the Harley-Davidson ASE certifications, not really but gives me the confidence to work on my own bike.
I sure hope the Technician that does my work is that thorough! Blue here & red there, torque numbers and units, assembly lube and then what got me was priming the lifter with oil! Honesty and trust is worth top dollar!
Wow... those S&S parts are pure billet jewellery! Dont mind paying good $$$ for quality pieces like that, not to mention the piece of mind that comes with it. Nice install video, thank you for taking the time to make this 🤘
Thanks for the likes and watching! S&S did a great job with these parts! Love the brass bushings in the cam plate, unlike Fueling or Harley Screaming Eagle that uses the parent aluminum in the plate as bearing material.....
Actually, the Pinion-shaft hole in the Feuling Camplate is “burnished”, making the aluminum significantly harder than the parent aluminum surrounding the hole. The Pinion-shaft “rides” in pressurized oil filling the .001 inch gap between the shaft and the aluminum Camplate; this method has been around for years in the automotive industry! @@LateNiteVTwin
Nobody minds paying good money for quality parts, but it takes a Harley owner to be proud of paying to replace the defective sh@t they got from the factory. Like, that’s just irrational.
One of the best and detailed vids I have ever seen on utube for upgrading parts in cam chest. It gives you the feeling that you can do such change by your self. Thanks Man.
Once again I am reminded why I bought a Goldwing as my big touring bike. My old stock Sportster has never needed anything, but maintenance. 16 years old, and it still runs strong, and has always been reliable, and cheap to own. I wish the bigger Harley's were built as well.
That's because the Honda is well, a Honda....and the Sporty has the best engine HD ever made, the Sportster Evolution engine, which is why I'm staying with my tried and true 06 XL1200C!
I know this is almost a couple of years old but after replacing my cam and inner chest with SS parts myself with pieced-together videos and forums comments, this video makes me want to tear it all down and start over. I wish I had found this a year ago, thank you for such an easy-to-watch, easy-to-follow video with simple, user-friendly instructions.
As a new Harley owner and a guy that has dealt with sport bikes his whole life…….this is one of the best videos I have seen. I’m trying to learn as much as possible about my bike and the M8 and this video helped immensely
When I upgraded to a 124 I opted for all S&S in the chest except for the cam. Blue pump, blue cam plate, S&S lifters and Wood 22XE. Great combination for me.
Man this was amazing…thanks so much. I’m on the edge of buying a fatboy and these issues have given me some doubts about laying out $23,000. All I’ve ridden are Japanese bikes and they’ve always been trouble free for me.
I am about to purchase a street glide and was very worried about reliability. This video is BRILLIANT. The best I’ve seen and just really enjoyed watching how thorough you are. Thanks so much man!!!!
Spot on video. My 2017 sumped at 4003 miles and 2 months out of warranty. HD declined to offer any help or back their poor production motor. I personally installed a 124” kit along with the parts you installed as well as the 475 cam, 5.5 injectors, manganese guides and a dyno jet tuner. Huge difference in performance and confidence in the M8 platform for performance builds. Stock parts were rubbish. I STRONGLY suggest using ARP studs and bolts throughout the build.
Agreed! This bike we did the video on was in the stealership multiple times, had two different oil pump updates done, and still the same issue. After completing the S&S upgrade, the motor now makes power smoothly with no crank drag in all that oil. Thanks for viewing! More coming to the channel soon!
I should have included that with the video, I appreciate the comment. You are correct. I stock the shims required to adjust the tolerances, this bike did not need any shim change but you are correct!
Excellent demonstration. As a 68 year old life long mechanic, I can tell you care about your customers. I've saved this video so I can do this upgrade before my 2018 ultra limited grenades due to HD engineers cheaping out in their design of the M8. My engine bone stock.
Don't have an M8 but getting ready to do this to my twin cam... basically same procedure.. You did a great job explaining procedure thanks...keep up the good job...
Thanks Mathew! The twin cam deserves this upgrade as well! The lifter failures have existed for a long time. I started seeing these start around 02-03 ish? Not sure where or who builds the lifters for Harley any longer. My personal bikes all have top shelf parts in the to make them reliable and fun. Thanks for watching! More to come!
My 42K 17 CVO ST 114M8 was a total POS. It spent a lot of time being trailered to the dealership for repairs. Tranny failure, water pump failure, head gasket blown, wheel bearing. The engine grenaded on the Tail of the Dragon when the engine sumped due to an oil pump failure. Complete engine rebuild at Maryville HD. Sold it as soon as I got home and went back to a twin cam 103. No problems.
I have a 96 cub inch night train 2009 and an fat boy 103 2012 I love it Now I don’t know what should I do?? I have a buyer who wanted my night train .. 😢 Should I sell it and buy a M8 2020 114 cub inch ?? Or maybe an Evo with lob mileage..? Pls help me🫣🙏
Watched this by two others. Your install and explanation are perfect. There was no comparison to my previous M8 tensioner views. Bravo!!!!!!!!!! You nailed it perfectly.....
This was an excellent informative video. You're an excellent instructor/ mechanic.. I definitely subscribed .. Harley-Davidson should not be making engines that would fail. How do they keep getting away with this.? They need to do recalls . Apparently they don't care about customers only care about making money.. if my engine fails I will be done with Harley-Davidson for good.. Can you post links to the parts.
Great video explaining why this is highly recommended ! Im doing a redshift 468 cam install on my 107 soon, its the zippers "zip kit", great thing is it comes with the S&S lifters adjustable pushrods, gaskets, cam bearing. I just need to buy the pump/cam plate and the tappet cuffs. One of the things I've noticed is that S&S seems to have the only cam plate with bushings installed instead of relying on just the housing to support the cam and crank. Ive seen and heard the stories of metal transfer from lifters to cam lobes on the m8 motors, some of the wear seen on the cams was ridiculous and a bit unnerving ,especially since my 107 only has a little over 6k on it. So now ill get a chance to nip it in the bud before something comes apart. Thank you for sharing the knowledge.
You are very welcome Mark! I'm glad this video has helped you in some way! I like helping our bike community continue trouble free miles and enjoy their bikes instead of worrying about them. Sounds like you've got a plan. Stick with it. As far as the cam plates, Fueling has a machining process that work hardens the aluminum. It's basically machined, then rolled to tolerance and it hardens the surface. I myself, prefer the brass. They both have GREAT parts. You won't regret the upgrade and peace of mind. The S&S premium lifters are the best IMO, and I have used them for years in my builds. They last. Thanks again for sharing!
I have two TC88 bikes that are coming due for cam chain tensioners repair. I will decide the best route to fix the problem after I open the cam chest. This has soured me on HD. I understand that there can be issues in design and manufacturing, but cannot forgive a manufacturer that ignores their mistakes and lets their customers pay to make it right. My fix for this is to never buy another HD. Great video.
ALL YOUR VIDEO IS WAY MUCH BETTER THAN A HARLEY DAVIDSON SERVICE MANUAL. I HAVE WATCH MORE THAN A FEW VIDEO ON CAMCHEST VIDEO INSTALL AND THIS VIDEO IS THE ONLY ONE THATS REALLY EASY TO FOLLOW. KEEP MAKING MORE VIDEO PLEASE
Great video, very informative. It is a great shame that certain products from Harley are sub-standard. Surely they could do a much better job but then many after-market business would be out of business. Like mine I see your boss sitting in the back ground supervising.
I was planning on getting a Harley but after this I probably won't. But the video in itself was absolutely informative you've talked a lot of people great job thank you paul.
You will need a special tool 2 remove the stock inner cam bearing and replace it with s&s inner cam bearing. Do not leave the stock junk bearing in there..
It’s a shame people spend a lot of money on Harley Davidson when they buy them just to find out Harley Davidson put junk parts in these very expensive motorcycles I mean, don’t give me wrong. I’m glad that other companies out there making better products but the thing is the customer shouldn’t have to worry about that these bikes should be made top of the line. The prices that people are paying it’s absurd.
@@rtkl13 No, it will not. If a non factory part fails, then yes, it will void a warranty but the upgraded parts are far superior to the factory pieces.....
@@LateNiteVTwin well I was thinking of upgrading to the S&S 475 cam chest kit I'm sure that they would notice the cam change even if it was tuned....no ?
I have said after two years of owning my 2017 107 M8 that Harley Davidson would upgrade their drive train again and I was right. Now it’s 2021 and technology has advanced to the point HD can’t justify using 1950’s/1960’s technology like the huge primary chain rotating in oil, pushrods, rocker arms, bottom end cams, and a hot ass air cooled engine. The Revolution Max engine appears to have designed all the problematic issues out all prior drive trains had while adding full liquid cooling & full counter balancing for the Cadillac smooth shifting and ride with less maintenance, less moving parts. My main maintenance performed is religious oil changes twice a season and sometimes three. I have had high mileage bikes and cars/trucks doing it with no wear or heat disruptions.
That was one of the best install videos I have seen for a HD bike regardless. Did any of the twin cam engines have these problems? I have two Twin Cam 88's that I have heard have cam chain tensioner issues and also a 2015 CVO Street Glide with the 110" Twin Cam that I have heard has lifter problems. If you have any videos on these issues I would absolutely love to watch them.
Hi Rory, first off, thanks for watching! The first gen twin cam had cam tensioner issues. The shoes will wear out, and once the chain saws through the plastic shoe its metal to metal and thats really bad. Harley, including the aftermarket manufacturers have a kit to upgrade the cam plate and you get the 07 and later hydraulic tensioners. No more problems! Your 110 has the best set up, but the lifters in all Harley's after 01-02, are crap. I recommend the aftermarket for replacements. I prefer the S&S premium lifter, but Jim', Fueling, Crane, you name it have lifters that will take care of durability issues and fix you right up! Pop the new lifters in, and a set of adjustable push rods of choice and no more issues at all!
I hope anyone doing this as a weekend warrior watches this video, first the O ring that's behind the oil pump does NOT come with the "Complete" kit (it's a Harley part), second is soaking the lifters for 24 hours before installing them, NO other video talks about either of these and both are very important, video is 👍
I still can't believe HD used plastic cuffs to guide the tappets. Fricking joke. This is a great time to throw in a hotter cam also 🤘 beautifully done!
Gr8 video, have just done this on my UL-19, found the video now after the job was done . . . BTW: The intake manofoil is also plastic, i don't like plastic parts in a motor so this was replaced with Screamin Eagle part #27300167. All of this should Harley have done from the beginning.
Yeah, I can't say they try. Not very hard anyways. The aftermarket flourishes with Harley in business.....plastic has been in play for over a decade. Gm and Ford both have plastic intake manifolds, and internal parts. Cheaper to produce.
M8s run a plastic intake manifold. All of these things are done to save money of course. Most of the time they're not going to be a problem but some people beat their bikes harder than others.
Thank you Micheal, I have been doing this for a long time. It's not that hard of a job, what makes it easy are the tables to pop the bikes up on instead of doing it on the floor! If I can help in any way, let me know.
That's the relationship between Harley and s&s . S&s has worked very closely with Harley.Harley puts out shit parts knowing that you'll need to change them. Along comes our favorite superhero S&s . This has been going on since the 70s dont get me wrong S&S makes way superior parts. But..... in fact if you want a great engine start with s&s cases and flywheels.
yes very good just brought 2020 fxdr so these things help starting to belive that i brought a list of problems and not the american muscle/hustle i thought
Well just brought it now sold it way too much to deal with extremely un comfortable b***ch near broke my back and that was on soft plastic parts in the engine need stage 50 upgrade sorry but hello BMW 1250 adventure tested and proved period Sorry harley but missed the mark for me on on price parts comfort yep everything bye broski
Naw, you bought a great bike. Do they have issues, yes. Are they fixable? Yes. Don't let all the bashing of the M8 discourage you from opening one. I enjoy doing the videos only to help the M8 community and help bring a little light on how to save some coin and protect the investment that you made. Owning the dream and riding the legend is one thing, helping prevent you from losing that is what I try and bring to the table, only to educate and help one decide 1, do I do this myself and save a few bucks, or 2, do I take this to someone I can trust. Hope this helps ease the worry!
Thx to you and another channel I am thoroughly convinced I would not have an m8.I can't justify spending a war pension on one of these bikes and then having to upgrade ,its ridiculous....but I appreciate what you do.
That's a must! The failures I see here in the shop are unreal. If they do a cam upgrade, spend the money on some high quality lifters as well. The stock ones have axle failures, and cause the lifter to go sideways in the bores, that's why the billet cuffs are a must in that engine.
Glad someone is talking about these issues ive 6 or 7 M8's melt down ,with these same problems you are talking about , i have never seen a connecting rod from Harley W/O a bushing that is crazy .You couldnt give me M8,You cant punch the cyl's nor can you do any head work, ive talked with Zippers and its not going away,Harley is back logged with warr, and wont or cant fix them , i feel bad for people the snookered into buying these POS
Thanks! I appreciate the views! I have many more videos coming, and like I have said in the past, if there is something you want to see, comment and I'll try and make it happen!
Well, Harley is all in on the M8. I don't know how true this is, but, according to a different UA-camr, Harley is not making anymore Twin Cam motorcycle parts or older engine motorcycle parts anymore. Plus, they aren't going to work on those type bikes anymore. So... that being said, support the small shops in your local area. Also, I found out the heads on the M8 are junk, and you need to get a vented oil plug, or their will be problems with the engine oil over time. Sorry, for the most part, I'll stick to my Twin Cam. If I want something better than that, I'll go get a bike with an Evo. I can't say that I can trust an M8 at this time. IMHO, I don't think the quality is there yet for me to purchase one.
maybe they changed it but you need to put a feeler gauge between the lifter and the S&S cuffs when you tighten the bolt. the cuff will rub against the lifter if you dont make sure you have space.
Solid upgrades for sure. S&S makes great stuff. I think you're overstating the potential for failure here. Most at risk are '17s, early '18s, and bikes that are ridden hard. Gonna beat on it? Do these upgrades. I'm a 25 year HD tech.
Hi William,. I have quite a few bikes in my customer base that are later than 18, and they all have shown swamping issues, as well as high crank case pressures. The motor company states they fixed all of this in 18, but I can say without a doubt that they still have issues. I have heard from a few 2021 owners, and they state they don't have the heat build up and low power issues that swamping creates so that leads me to believe that Harley has resoled something but I cannot confirm it. Best bet, ride it and see what happens. If you have issues develop, you know where to turn to fix it. Best bet is to just educate yourself. Kevin Baxter over at Baxter's Garage has great content to support what he see's. He's a much bigger shop than me, and has bigger volume of customers.
My friend who just bought a 2019 cvo street glide with 131 screaming eagle is complaining about how hot it runs. He thinks it’s the 2 into 1 D&D exhaust. What do you think?
@@thanosetsitty1896 what is he comparing it to? I mean, it is a 131" air cooled motor. It has to shed the heat somewhere and the motor happens to be between your knees. I wouldn't blame the exhaust. The stock with the cat would be hotter. I wrapped my rear pipe under the heat shield to give my wife's leg a break.
@@thanosetsitty1896 Exhausts don't typically cause a bike to run hot. If anything, an aftermarket exhaust without a converter in it will help cool the bike down a touch. Most likely, he's got a swamping issue with the crankshaft, the other thing I have seen is the oilers under the pistons loose, and it causes the bike to run hotter than usual. I am not saying these are in fact what's causing it, but these are the most common things I have run into. That bike if running correctly, shouldn't run hot. It's hard to diagnose a bike that's not in front of me. Does the bike run hot when running at freeway speeds, or just around town? Any service lights on the dash illuminated? And lastly, what kind of engine upgrades have been done besides exhaust? What state of tune has the eco had to support any mods??
Great video. Great info. However, there was no mention of checking the cam/crank gear alignment or tappet cuff alignment. IIRC, S&S instructions reference the service manual for the gear alignment, and provides the gap spec for the tappet cuffs. In my experience, the tappet cuffs rotate when torquing them down without a feeler gauge, and the tappets will then bind. Placing the spec'd feeler gauge in place while torquing prevents this.
I have add, it is great to see a plate/pump only video. It is an awesome reference for people who are at juat that step in the process without having to sort through an hour of cam and bearing replacement I have seen in other videos. Great angles as well.
Thanks for the feed back Michael! I should have covered that in the video. I try and bring the simplicity of things I do to the do it yourself folks, or at least bring folks info in a way they can understand so when they face the cost of an upgrade or breakdown, they can be somewhat educated. I will bring the more technical aspects of the in the upcoming videos I do. The bike we performed the work on for this piece had a stage two done already, and I had checked the distances between shots. I stock the various washers and such here in the shop. Thanks again for the suggestions!
Very interesting Video for me to understand how a Harley engine works. My M 8 is a Sport Glide 2018. I am not s mechanic, an i dont understand all you talking about (American dialect) cause iam german. Did u say the Oil pump must be changed as an generell rule or can i do it after a certain part of miles? Best regards from Augsburg Germany
The oil pump can be upgraded by itself, but the plate offers better cam and crank support, as well as the passages that are machined into it as they have plugs that offer cleaning if a failure occurs. The bypass/pressure regulator is also adjustable in them, as the engines grow in performance needs but the adjustment takes a special fixture from the cam plate manufacturer to check it.
I know this post is old but I was wondering if you could put all the links to the parts you installed in the description part. This would be so helpful for us non mechanics to order. Great video! I feel like I can change these parts out myself now. New subscriber!
Great job Gary Thanks for great info, I have A 2002 fat boy with timken Crank Bearing I had to upgrade to hydraulic cam tensioners and new cam plate $$$$$$$ harley screwed us there ...same thing on 2004 FLH $$$$$ AND HARLEY DROPED TIMKEN crank bearing in 2003 doesn't anybody @harley see how terrible there crank run outs are??? most people should not even upgrade to high output oil pumps with 0.06 to 0.13 runout but its harley's new normal. I installed the screaming eagle 6 speed transmission upgrade this is horrible I had to repair it 3 times in 10,000 miles never use one !!!!!!!!!!!! M-8 is a sumping mess.. plastic lifter guides ..and there 18538-99C lifters have a high failure rate, every M-8 off the line should have a fuelling or similar vented oil cap ..since when do customers pay for manufacturing defects .. harley hits people with a new version M-8 OIL PUMP FROM 2017 TO 2019 at CUSTOMERS COST " we fucked up but you pay for our mistake " WOW!! love the biker life but harley needs to hear a little word RECALL THEY ARE SHITTING on lots of loyal customers SAD !!!!!!! great channel Gary keep it up.
I couldn't agree with you more Brando! It's tough to see the haters comment like we hate the M8. We're just trying to make it better. We're stuck with what the motor company builds, and my customer base ranges from pinheads to the current. I have always said the aftermarket built a better Harley than Harley ever built. Unfortunately for us, recalls only follow safety related issues, not engineering flaws. Thanks for the comments! And keep the lifestyle alive!
I've had 2 twin cam engines FXD and FXDL. No problems. My 07 Low rider 96 had Stage 1 and a cam. Plenty of power. Even my 04 Stage 1 88 was quick. I'd buy another Dyna FXDL in a second. Perfect for me and it is beautiful. Great video!
Great video........If you leave the cam cover off and then adjust the push rods you would know you are at TDC #1 cylinder and then one revolution lining up the timing marks for TDC #2
Ha! We all wish they would, but to this day they never will admit that their stuff fails. It loses trust when a dealer says oh no, we don't see that happen. Look at all the forums! They're loaded with owners like yourself that say the same things. In my opinion, the EVO was the best engine they ever built. I have had several, and still have one to this day. I do enjoy my second gen twin cam, but I've made it reliable, and at a high cost. The M8.....They can keep it.
@@LateNiteVTwin you are SO RIGHT man 🤔You can upgrade the motors example my 2005 Duece with the shit tensioner s ( hopefully with gears ) with the S+S full kit , high output oil pump , adjustable push rods ECT ECT then hopefully KEEP IT. This is one reason dudes and dudettes are keeping their motorcycles they make reliable instead of paying top dollar for the next Harley-Davidson calamity.👍🏼😎🇺🇸
Thanks for this video. Your delivery and presentation is spot on and very informative. I bought a 2020 Slim and now worry this is my fate. What would this complete swap out cost roughly? I’m thinking I might just dive in and get it done. And does this kind of upgrade void warranty? It may seem like a dumb question, but stupider things have happened.
No question is dumb Mathew! Only dumb answers......It all depends on how much of the upgrade you do. The video we shot here was just the pump, plate and cuff upgrade. The owner already had the stage two done when the bike was purchased so we didn't need the cams or adjustable pushrods. There's quite a few companies that offer a complete cam chest upgrade that include a choice of cam grinds. The pump and plate will run about 6-700, cams are anywhere from 250-500 depending on brand and grind. By you performing the upgrade, it won't void warranty, but any manufacturer will tell you if an aftermarket part causes a stock part to fail, then they won't help you. By performing these simple things in an M8. you'll definitely save yourself the grief of having internal damage, and stopping the dealer from installing the same parts back in the bike that failed the first time. I hope this helps!
I just stumbled onto you over a year after you posted this and I have to say this is the most thorough and descriptive DYI video I've seen on this yet! Between you and Kevin Baxter I think I can learn all I ever need to! I have a '17 Ultra Limited with the 107 that I've added the Screamin' Eagle air cleaner in the stock cover and Cary Faas Slip ons' with the black screamin' Eagle tuner and a dyno tune at my local dealer. I gained 6 HP to (83) and 9 ft. lbs. of torque to (110). I wasn't really going for a seat of the pants difference, realizing your not going to get that with a Stage 1 upgrade out of this engine. I was simply going for looks and sound. It might run a touch better and cooler but barely noticeable. I don't thrash on this bike, or ride long distances at high RPM so I haven't experienced any issues. In fact I've only put about 1000 miles a year on it for personal and geographical reasons so it's just rolling onto 5000 miles. I've been keeping an eye on this issue and even although I'm not experiencing any problems, upgrading to this S&S kit would probably still be in my best interest for longevity purposes. I tend to hang onto things for a long time and I love this bike. Would it be worth installing a cam upgrade while I'm in there without getting too crazy. I'm really not looking for any more performance for a 900 lb. cruiser, just to add a little character to the idle lope for my own satisfaction.
You forgot to mention one very important thing to check to see if you can even do this mod or not. S&S oil pumps are designed to work with pinion shaft runout up to 0.005. If it exceeds the 0.005 measurement then what?
Great video and your explanation is as clear as water. Just got myself a 2017 m8 107 road king and will do the adjustment you recommended. Thanx a lot for you time and video. Greetings from the other side of the pond.
I’ll be doing this soon, thanks for the tips 👍 Also made my own crankcase breather. I’ve seen two arguments over having a check valve or free breathing vent with a filter. Thoughts?
Well, a check valve doesn't offer the air to move back and fourth......The Fueling unit does not have a check vale. I don't check vale the ones I've built.....
I've successfully done many cam chest upgrades holding the back brake instead of using a lock tool. With that small of a torque amount The wrench clicks long before the brake gives.
Nothing new here, same old el cheapo assembly on the line that H-D has always had from the very 1st series since the Flathead. If you’ve decided to ride/own an H-D you must be willing to correct the crappy or regret you’re purchase. From the Evo pulling studs and burning oil as soon as you add a little performance to the TC and now M8, if you want to ride these old school air/oil cooled beasts you gotta be willing to either do the work or pay to have it done.
Do u realize that s&s instructions tell u to torque the cam plate first, then the oil pump. Plus u don’t talk about checking the offset between the cam gear and the pinion gear.
Troy, you are correct, I will make a correction in my next post coming up on some M8 stuff I'm working on. Good catch......Like always, read the service manuals........Thanks for the heads up.
My '18 Street Glide stage 2 upgrade consisted of the S&S 465C cam, their premium lifters and billet tappet cuffs, Quickee adjustable pushrods, and the latest Harley oil pump with 8-lobe scavenge gerotor. Finished off with the S&S Stealth air cleaner. All tuned with TTS Mastertune. Very happy with the results and should be reliable too.
i hav a 2017 m8 engine on my road king stage 3. i havent had any problems. i hav over 72,000 miles on it, whats up with all the bad mouthing of the m8 engine
I'm not bad mouthing the M8, I only do some of the M8 vids to help others when they have issues with the bikes. Harley has a problem, and won't admit to it. I have a pretty good relationship with my local dealer, as I rely on them for parts support for my shop. They are pretty honest and I have heard the say from quite a few employees that 2 out of 10 bikes are decent. The shops across the country are loaded with M8 issues and from what I see online with used bikes sales, there's more M8 platforms up for grabs because people are tired of some of the issues. There's always a way around the problem. The aftermarket has great support. They wouldn't invest millions in R&D to make what they make without reason. I have to poke the ribs of the motor company from time to time, as I see what my customers drag in the door after it fails or they lose faith in the deals they deal with not supporting on how they address the issue. I'm always excited to hear the success stories like yours. It somehow keeps the faith in the platform.
It would really suck to spend over 20K on a bike just to turn around and spend a few thousand more to make sure the brand new bike is reliable. Hats off to The Motor Company for releasing such a well though out product.
I’ve been wanting a Harley for years but always back out due to the unreliability problems. One would think as Harley is hurting that they would make more reliable bikes. These videos make me even more concerned. I mean how many people can afford to put down $24,000 on a new bike just to hand it over to a trusty qualified bike tech to make the unreliable bike reliable. I have had many friends buy them with too many problems. It can’t be that difficult to make a reliable bike, Honda has been doing it for many years
You are right! If you haven't yet, don't. I never worked on my Shadow, got Superglide and been in it 4 times in 2 years. Horrible power, and clunky shit.
@Just J I have both a 2019 Breakout (13k-miles) and a 2019 Fat Boy (8k-miles). I left them both stock and haven’t had any problems with either one. I have a 7-year warranty on both so if there’s ever a problem, then H-D can fix it. My riding buddy owns a 2015 Honda GW and has had nothing but problems with it. I had a 2014 Kawasaki Concours that went through tires like crazy and needed lots of maintenance. I traded it for the Fat Boy and couldn’t be happier. Japanese, Indian, and European bike dealers are few and far between. Harley has a huge nationwide dealer network. Harley is selling every bike they can build. The dealers can’t keep bikes in stock. As soon as new bikes are delivered they’re sold within days, including the CVO’s and Trikes.
GREAT! Keep your Honda! BTW, why do you watch these Harley repair videos if you already know that Harleys are an unreliable, overly-expensive piece of shit?
Long time Harley Davidson owner/ rider here. I don't think I would buy a new Harley Davidson. I just keep my old ones but it is starting to get hard to find parts. Maybe I will end up on a rice burner one day. This saddens my heart.
Hey Scoot Jockey, I'm only on here helping out the community of bikes that I service and repair. No where did I ever say you had to do this to your bike or what parts to buy?? I read the forums, and I have good relationships with dealers I can trust for info, So I try and pass on what I know is a fix for this platform. Every product will have some kind of issue no matter the brand name. I'm just trying to help out anyone who wants to save a few bucks and do the repairs themselves instead of paying through the nose to a shop or dealer they can't trust. I hope you have good luck with your M8. I'm not here to bash them, I'm only here to help make them perform better with reliability.
Runs Fine till it Breaks and Destroys Our Engines.. Prevention is Always better than the Cure. These a Basic Upgrades to give any Bike Long-term Reliability ..Your Choice. Oh,,I Highly Recommend Upgrading your Oil Pump for Either 2020 4th Gen or SnS or Fueling too..Good luck.
Hi Late Nite V Twin, Liked & Subscribed, you popped up on my algorithm, thank you for the great video, you are truly a Harley Davidson Master Mechanic, really appreciate all you do for the Harley Davidson family, Ride Hard💪🏼, Be Blessed 🙏🏽Aloha, Kenneth 🤙🏽
I design medical products and it seems like all of these manufacturers go through a process called "mitigating risk". They will design and test parts of various materials, consider each of their costs for production, etc...then they decide how much risk they are willing to take in the parts failure in relation to profit. It sucks, but plastics are way cheaper, easy to mold and if the part can maintain certain level of "confidence levels", they go with what will cost the least to maintain profits. They know full well that a metal would last longer and be better, but to the mothership, it costs more to produce...bottom line...unfortunate for us, but that's the way business works and how the bean counters call the shots.
Funny that people watch these videos and fall for this shit 😂 LS engines have been using plastic lifter cuffs for 2 decades. The moral of this story is, “I’m an Indy this is why you should bring your bike to me” 😂
@@MilkMan608 It sure does! You have to watch out for failures in the twin cam, but it doesn't have the plastic cuff holding them, it uses the case bores, with a hardened rod to locate them. I replace them all the time, so much, that I put adjustable push rod kits in inventory for those who don't have them yet.
GM is junk. Wouldn't bolster the use of plastic, because they do it. They can't even engineer a good electric fuel pump. Gauges are junk. Magic stick is junk. Body control module is junk. Intake manifold is junk. Front diffo actuator is junk. I'd go on, but my suppers ready.
I agree with you on this one. I'm a fan of the second gen twin cam. It's a great platform, and easy to upgrade with great results. I know that every new platform that comes our way, weather it's a new engine or trans will have it's issues, but I would think that the companies would learn from the failures and make adjustments along the way of its progression. To simply have the same issues in the whole time the M* has been out, going on 4 years in production, we still have the same issues. At least the valve seat failures in the heads from 17 were dealt with. I haven't seen that on the 18 and later bikes. I agree with you on the 110. They had a 113 bolt on big bore for the that and it never really caught on? I run a 117' twin cam build in my Roadglide, and it's been very reliable and fun to ride!
@@genekelley7579 Oh man, you're going to love that set up! I used Revolution Performance 's set up. The barrels are nickasil coated, they don't have steel liners in them, great heat dissipation! My motor made some good numbers, close to 130 ft.lbs. torque. I used the Woods w9 cam, and Screaming Eagle CNC ported heads, along with the Woods offset rocker towers. Super happy with the performance and mileage. Let me know how your build goes!
This is an EXCELLENT educational video. Very well explained with step by step instruction made easy for everyone to follow. I am much more confident in doing this. I have a 2018 Street Glide with the 107 that I truly love and want to keep running for ever. I may still take it to Harley In Barrie Ontario Canada to get this done, I have the extended warrantee on the bike.
I learned something after watching this......to go buy a Honda. What a freaking joke this company is. I've been looking a Harleys for two months. Everytime I find a bike I want, I do research only to find out that once more Harley did a half azzed job.
LOL. I have a 17' M8 road glide special with a HD dealer installed stage 4 kit. Well.... they didn't upgrade the 8 valve springs and left the stock oil pump. In April of 2019, I'm riding into oatman Arizona during the laughlin river run and all 8 valve springs snapped on me at the same time. They couldn't handle the pressure. I ended up u-hauling my shiny Harley all the way back to LA County. Harley immediately told me that I was out of factory warranty. It was a fucking shit show. I ended up forking out 2 grand to get the problem fixed with new heavy duty valve springs and a complete feuhling cam chest and oil pump. Biggest disappointment ever.
Yeah, they all have their issues, I think because the purchase of a Harley is way more than a Honda, it leave a sour taste in peoples mouths. They can be reliable with simple upgrades. If you find the right bike at the right price, many have done these upgrades already and it saves you in the long run??
I have watched a few videos that included the removal to the cam cover, cam and crank gears, and oil pump assy. This video is the most user friendly vid to watch. It does not go too fast, very descriptive, AND it includes all the torque values! Great job!
Thanks for the comments, we try hard to bring this to all levels of folks who need the info!
Hey brother. You need more videos. You are truly amazing at explaining everything. I am an Aircraft mechanic in the Air Force, I taught the military my job for 5 years and now I’m upgrading my cam on my 114 M8. Your instructions are excellent and super detailed. I think if you put more time into this you would have a lot of success! Thanks SO much for the great video!
Very detailed this guy is super good at showing and telling every thing. VERY GOOD VIDEO.....
After FINALLY finishing my 1983 FXWG ( with the help of my big brother ) I spent 5 thousand dollars and couldn’t be happier .
I made the mistake of test riding a 2018 ( in 2018 ) FXLR Low Rider …
Due to ( 3 ) spinal surgeries , I fell in love with the new frame’s suspension !
So - they offered me 10 thousand dollars towards this $14,995.00 brand new machine . Being in my 60’s , I felt like I couldn’t refuse such an incredible offer ; as it presumably will be my last Harley to own , why not go brand new and be - “ trouble free “ !
Well here we are , and although I have for 44 years of messing with 13 different Harley’s since the 1970’s , ALWAYS respected S & S for their superior engineering ; little did I expect to be SO DISAPPOINTED THAT THE MOTOR COMPANY SCREWED UP AGAIN !
I am so disillusioned ! Over 120 years AND still doing this low quality type of output …
THEY SHOULD STEP UP TO THE PLATE AND DO A RECALL AND OFFER THIS S & S upgrade for free !
Rat bastards !!!!
Hey man I know this is 3 years old as I write this but that was the best video yet of how to change out the cams plate and other parts. You took the time to break things down and didn't jump steps with loud music in the background. Please keep these videos coming and keep actually explaining how to step by step. I own an older 103 and want to upgrade hope it's not much different than your video. Thanks.
Dude, clearly one of the best how to videos I have ever seen. I think my grandma could do this job after watching your video. Nicely done!!
Thank you brother! We try!
Just stumbled on your videos and I must say they are extremely well put together with detailed information. Watching them I could almost pass the Harley-Davidson ASE certifications, not really but gives me the confidence to work on my own bike.
I sure hope the Technician that does my work is that thorough! Blue here & red there, torque numbers and units, assembly lube and then what got me was priming the lifter with oil!
Honesty and trust is worth top dollar!
Wow... those S&S parts are pure billet jewellery! Dont mind paying good $$$ for quality pieces like that, not to mention the piece of mind that comes with it. Nice install video, thank you for taking the time to make this 🤘
Thanks for the likes and watching! S&S did a great job with these parts! Love the brass bushings in the cam plate, unlike Fueling or Harley Screaming Eagle that uses the parent aluminum in the plate as bearing material.....
This video is 👌
Actually, the Pinion-shaft hole in the Feuling Camplate is “burnished”, making the aluminum significantly harder than the parent aluminum surrounding the hole. The Pinion-shaft “rides” in pressurized oil filling the .001 inch gap between the shaft and the aluminum Camplate; this method has been around for years in the automotive industry!
@@LateNiteVTwin
Nobody minds paying good money for quality parts, but it takes a Harley owner to be proud of paying to replace the defective sh@t they got from the factory. Like, that’s just irrational.
Great video! Please make more covering upgrades on the M8 engine. There are tons of people (me included!) that would greatly appreciate it!
Will do Jim! Thanks for looking in on me here at Late Nite V Twin, and stay tuned, more to come!
Will do Jim! More coming!
Thanks for stopping by Jim! I'm glad it was helpful! As we get more in as far as upgrades, we will be doing videos for you all
One of the best and detailed vids I have ever seen on utube for upgrading parts in cam chest. It gives you the feeling that you can do such change by your self.
Thanks Man.
Once again I am reminded why I bought a Goldwing as my big touring bike. My old stock Sportster has never needed anything, but maintenance. 16 years old, and it still runs strong, and has always been reliable, and cheap to own. I wish the bigger Harley's were built as well.
Me to, but hey......nothing wrong on a Honda.....
My new names gonna be Should have bought a HONDA
That's because the Honda is well, a Honda....and the Sporty has the best engine HD ever made, the Sportster Evolution engine, which is why I'm staying with my tried and true 06 XL1200C!
They ALL have issues at one time or another. Even Goldwings. And Yamahas. And Suzuki . And Chevy. And Ford. And Nissan....,.
I like goldwing water cooled engine. I cook and bike cooks in the summer. So I ride gw when it's hot and real cold
I know this is almost a couple of years old but after replacing my cam and inner chest with SS parts myself with pieced-together videos and forums comments, this video makes me want to tear it all down and start over. I wish I had found this a year ago, thank you for such an easy-to-watch, easy-to-follow video with simple, user-friendly instructions.
These are really good videos, no krazy music etc just good straight forward info. Wish you were closer to me.
Would have liked to have seen a pinion shaft run out check.
As a new Harley owner and a guy that has dealt with sport bikes his whole life…….this is one of the best videos I have seen. I’m trying to learn as much as possible about my bike and the M8 and this video helped immensely
When I upgraded to a 124 I opted for all S&S in the chest except for the cam. Blue pump, blue cam plate, S&S lifters and Wood 22XE. Great combination for me.
Use woods lifters bro. Trust me
Thankyou , kinda 😎
@@stephanyodaniel7970 you’re kinda welcome 🤪
Man this was amazing…thanks so much. I’m on the edge of buying a fatboy and these issues have given me some doubts about laying out $23,000. All I’ve ridden are Japanese bikes and they’ve always been trouble free for me.
I am about to purchase a street glide and was very worried about reliability. This video is BRILLIANT. The best I’ve seen and just really enjoyed watching how thorough you are. Thanks so much man!!!!
This video is awesome. Completed install of S&S kit without a hiccup. You're the best in step by step narration of videos..👍👍💯🙌
Spot on video. My 2017 sumped at 4003 miles and 2 months out of warranty. HD declined to offer any help or back their poor production motor.
I personally installed a 124” kit along with the parts you installed as well as the 475 cam, 5.5 injectors, manganese guides and a dyno jet tuner.
Huge difference in performance and confidence in the M8 platform for performance builds.
Stock parts were rubbish.
I STRONGLY suggest using ARP studs and bolts throughout the build.
Agreed! This bike we did the video on was in the stealership multiple times, had two different oil pump updates done, and still the same issue. After completing the S&S upgrade, the motor now makes power smoothly with no crank drag in all that oil. Thanks for viewing! More coming to the channel soon!
I should have included that with the video, I appreciate the comment. You are correct. I stock the shims required to adjust the tolerances, this bike did not need any shim change but you are correct!
Excellent demonstration. As a 68 year old life long mechanic, I can tell you care about your customers. I've saved this video so I can do this upgrade before my 2018 ultra limited grenades due to HD engineers cheaping out in their design of the M8. My engine bone stock.
Don't have an M8 but getting ready to do this to my twin cam... basically same procedure.. You did a great job explaining procedure thanks...keep up the good job...
Thanks Mathew! The twin cam deserves this upgrade as well! The lifter failures have existed for a long time. I started seeing these start around 02-03 ish? Not sure where or who builds the lifters for Harley any longer. My personal bikes all have top shelf parts in the to make them reliable and fun. Thanks for watching! More to come!
My 42K 17 CVO ST 114M8 was a total POS. It spent a lot of time being trailered to the dealership for repairs. Tranny failure, water pump failure, head gasket blown, wheel bearing. The engine grenaded on the Tail of the Dragon when the engine sumped due to an oil pump failure. Complete engine rebuild at Maryville HD. Sold it as soon as I got home and went back to a twin cam 103. No problems.
I have a 96 cub inch night train 2009 and an fat boy 103 2012
I love it
Now I don’t know what should I do??
I have a buyer who wanted my night train .. 😢
Should I sell it and buy a M8 2020 114 cub inch ??
Or maybe an Evo with lob mileage..? Pls help me🫣🙏
@@marccopoloo966 Stay away from 17 M8s, unless you like spending money. I believe most of the M8 issues have been resolved in the 21,22,23 models.
Watched this by two others. Your install and explanation are perfect. There was no comparison to my previous M8 tensioner views. Bravo!!!!!!!!!! You nailed it perfectly.....
Thanks for stopping in and I'm glad you enjoyed the video!
This was an excellent informative video. You're an excellent instructor/ mechanic.. I definitely subscribed .. Harley-Davidson should not be making engines that would fail. How do they keep getting away with this.? They need to do recalls . Apparently they don't care about customers only care about making money.. if my engine fails I will be done with Harley-Davidson for good.. Can you post links to the parts.
Great video explaining why this is highly recommended ! Im doing a redshift 468 cam install on my 107 soon, its the zippers "zip kit", great thing is it comes with the S&S lifters adjustable pushrods, gaskets, cam bearing. I just need to buy the pump/cam plate and the tappet cuffs.
One of the things I've noticed is that S&S seems to have the only cam plate with bushings installed instead of relying on just the housing to support the cam and crank.
Ive seen and heard the stories of metal transfer from lifters to cam lobes on the m8 motors, some of the wear seen on the cams was ridiculous and a bit unnerving ,especially since my 107 only has a little over 6k on it. So now ill get a chance to nip it in the bud before something comes apart. Thank you for sharing the knowledge.
You are very welcome Mark! I'm glad this video has helped you in some way! I like helping our bike community continue trouble free miles and enjoy their bikes instead of worrying about them. Sounds like you've got a plan. Stick with it. As far as the cam plates, Fueling has a machining process that work hardens the aluminum. It's basically machined, then rolled to tolerance and it hardens the surface. I myself, prefer the brass. They both have GREAT parts. You won't regret the upgrade and peace of mind. The S&S premium lifters are the best IMO, and I have used them for years in my builds. They last. Thanks again for sharing!
I have two TC88 bikes that are coming due for cam chain tensioners repair. I will decide the best route to fix the problem after I open the cam chest. This has soured me on HD. I understand that there can be issues in design and manufacturing, but cannot forgive a manufacturer that ignores their mistakes and lets their customers pay to make it right. My fix for this is to never buy another HD. Great video.
I've scheduled this upgrade for my M8, I went with the S&S 475c cam. That's a great looking kit I hope I'm happy with the cam.
@@kw6833 I'm really liking it so far
ALL YOUR VIDEO IS WAY MUCH BETTER THAN A HARLEY DAVIDSON SERVICE MANUAL. I HAVE WATCH MORE THAN A FEW VIDEO ON CAMCHEST VIDEO INSTALL AND THIS VIDEO IS THE ONLY ONE THATS REALLY EASY TO FOLLOW. KEEP MAKING MORE VIDEO PLEASE
Great video, very informative. It is a great shame that certain products from Harley are sub-standard. Surely they could do a much better job but then many after-market business would be out of business. Like mine I see your boss sitting in the back ground supervising.
Hahah! The boss you see in the background? She's my videographers boss!
I was planning on getting a Harley but after this I probably won't. But the video in itself was absolutely informative you've talked a lot of people great job thank you paul.
Thank you Paul, we are here to help! I hope I never talk anyone out of owing a Harley. I've had them for years.....but they can be better!
@@LateNiteVTwin hi hope all is well, just re-watched the video, and I did end up buying a Harley. 2022 Softail standard love the bike
Dude, you’re awesome! Thanks for sharing the video. Now I know what my M8 needs.
Glad we could help out!
You will need a special tool 2 remove the stock inner cam bearing and replace it with s&s inner cam bearing. Do not leave the stock junk bearing in there..
It’s a shame people spend a lot of money on Harley Davidson when they buy them just to find out Harley Davidson put junk parts in these very expensive motorcycles I mean, don’t give me wrong. I’m glad that other companies out there making better products but the thing is the customer shouldn’t have to worry about that these bikes should be made top of the line. The prices that people are paying it’s absurd.
💯
That was planned by the company from inception.
Love your channel, I feel you're probably the most honest guy when it comes to the newer bikes.
Thanks Thomas, we enjoy trying to help the community of the newest platforms, we don't have all the answers but we sure try!
I just watched this video today. Man, you are a talented technician. Great job and great video. Keep up the great work.
Thank you Duane! We try to keep them rollin.....
@@LateNiteVTwin I can do the work no problem but doesn't that void my warranty?
@@rtkl13 No, it will not. If a non factory part fails, then yes, it will void a warranty but the upgraded parts are far superior to the factory pieces.....
@@LateNiteVTwin well I was thinking of upgrading to the S&S 475 cam chest kit I'm sure that they would notice the cam change even if it was tuned....no ?
I have said after two years of owning my 2017 107 M8 that Harley Davidson would upgrade their drive train again and I was right. Now it’s 2021 and technology has advanced to the point HD can’t justify using 1950’s/1960’s technology like the huge primary chain rotating in oil, pushrods, rocker arms, bottom end cams, and a hot ass air cooled engine. The Revolution Max engine appears to have designed all the problematic issues out all prior drive trains had while adding full liquid cooling & full counter balancing for the Cadillac smooth shifting and ride with less maintenance, less moving parts.
My main maintenance performed is religious oil changes twice a season and sometimes three. I have had high mileage bikes and cars/trucks doing it with no wear or heat disruptions.
That was one of the best install videos I have seen for a HD bike regardless. Did any of the twin cam engines have these problems? I have two Twin Cam 88's that I have heard have cam chain tensioner issues and also a 2015 CVO Street Glide with the 110" Twin Cam that I have heard has lifter problems. If you have any videos on these issues I would absolutely love to watch them.
Hi Rory, first off, thanks for watching! The first gen twin cam had cam tensioner issues. The shoes will wear out, and once the chain saws through the plastic shoe its metal to metal and thats really bad. Harley, including the aftermarket manufacturers have a kit to upgrade the cam plate and you get the 07 and later hydraulic tensioners. No more problems! Your 110 has the best set up, but the lifters in all Harley's after 01-02, are crap. I recommend the aftermarket for replacements. I prefer the S&S premium lifter, but Jim', Fueling, Crane, you name it have lifters that will take care of durability issues and fix you right up! Pop the new lifters in, and a set of adjustable push rods of choice and no more issues at all!
look up Kevin baxter's videos, he has nice videos on both.
I hope anyone doing this as a weekend warrior watches this video, first the O ring that's behind the oil pump does NOT come with the "Complete" kit (it's a Harley part), second is soaking the lifters for 24 hours before installing them, NO other video talks about either of these and both are very important, video is 👍
The cam and crank sprockets should be measured for tolerance flatness. Harley sells a washer spacing kit just for that reason.
The crank sprocket is sloppy from the factory. Fueling sells a much tighter gear that eliminates the slop in timing.
I still can't believe HD used plastic cuffs to guide the tappets. Fricking joke. This is a great time to throw in a hotter cam also 🤘 beautifully done!
Enjoyed this vid. Will definitely be doing this up grade down the road!
Is Harley ever gonna get its shit together? Geesh. Been making bikes 118 years. This is a #1 video!!!
Gr8 video, have just done this on my UL-19, found the video now after the job was done . . . BTW: The intake manofoil is also plastic, i don't like plastic parts in a motor so this was replaced with Screamin Eagle part #27300167. All of this should Harley have done from the beginning.
I agree with you whole heartedly!
best cam install video out there by far
Awesome explanation! Boggles the mind why H-D doesn't make these improvements sooner and/or from the start (plastic parts? Seriously?).
Yeah, I can't say they try. Not very hard anyways. The aftermarket flourishes with Harley in business.....plastic has been in play for over a decade. Gm and Ford both have plastic intake manifolds, and internal parts. Cheaper to produce.
M8s run a plastic intake manifold. All of these things are done to save money of course. Most of the time they're not going to be a problem but some people beat their bikes harder than others.
Helluva job man! Great job explaining what you're doing too!
Thanks for stopping in! and thank you for the thumbs up!
Wow. You make this look easy. Makes me want to take a 5 hour drive for you to work on my bike.
Thank you Micheal, I have been doing this for a long time. It's not that hard of a job, what makes it easy are the tables to pop the bikes up on instead of doing it on the floor! If I can help in any way, let me know.
@@LateNiteVTwin Speaking of "tables" here? Can many of these jobs you do also be done from a motorcycle jack? Something in the order of a J&S?
@@AmosBHaven Yes they can. No reason you can't! I just prefer the tables.....
That's the relationship between Harley and s&s . S&s has worked very closely with Harley.Harley puts out shit parts knowing that you'll need to change them. Along comes our favorite superhero S&s . This has been going on since the 70s dont get me wrong S&S makes way superior parts. But..... in fact if you want a great engine start with s&s cases and flywheels.
Like I always say, the aftermarket makes a better Harley than Harley ever did
First time in a long time someone shows the proper way to use the torque wrench. One click and move on to the next. 👍
yes very good just brought 2020 fxdr so these things help starting to belive that i brought a list of problems and not the american muscle/hustle i thought
Well just brought it now sold it way too much to deal with extremely un comfortable b***ch near broke my back and that was on soft plastic parts in the engine need stage 50 upgrade sorry but hello BMW 1250 adventure tested and proved period
Sorry harley but missed the mark for me on on price parts comfort yep everything bye broski
Naw, you bought a great bike. Do they have issues, yes. Are they fixable? Yes. Don't let all the bashing of the M8 discourage you from opening one. I enjoy doing the videos only to help the M8 community and help bring a little light on how to save some coin and protect the investment that you made. Owning the dream and riding the legend is one thing, helping prevent you from losing that is what I try and bring to the table, only to educate and help one decide 1, do I do this myself and save a few bucks, or 2, do I take this to someone I can trust. Hope this helps ease the worry!
Thx to you and another channel I am thoroughly convinced I would not have an m8.I can't justify spending a war pension on one of these bikes and then having to upgrade ,its ridiculous....but I appreciate what you do.
Thank You for a Great Video. I suggest to just buy the entire S&S M8 Motor, after the H-D one fails.
This is the most user friendly video by far man !!!! Holy cow right on !!!!
I saved Mine today by buying a 98 wide glide today with 13,000 miles on it
NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT PURCHASE!!!
I have an EVO, not a Milwaukee 8, but I liked watching all of this video.
I'm having the dealership do a cam job this month maybe I should add those metal cuffs??
That's a must! The failures I see here in the shop are unreal. If they do a cam upgrade, spend the money on some high quality lifters as well. The stock ones have axle failures, and cause the lifter to go sideways in the bores, that's why the billet cuffs are a must in that engine.
Glad someone is talking about these issues ive 6 or 7 M8's melt down ,with these same problems you are talking about , i have never seen a connecting rod from Harley W/O a bushing that is crazy .You couldnt give me M8,You cant punch the cyl's nor can you do any head work, ive talked with Zippers and its not going away,Harley is back logged with warr, and wont or cant fix them , i feel bad for people the snookered into buying these POS
i liked it keep it up your a good teacher respect
Thanks! I appreciate the views! I have many more videos coming, and like I have said in the past, if there is something you want to see, comment and I'll try and make it happen!
Thanks man! Appreciate the comment and viewing!
Well, Harley is all in on the M8. I don't know how true this is, but, according to a different UA-camr, Harley is not making anymore Twin Cam motorcycle parts or older engine motorcycle parts anymore. Plus, they aren't going to work on those type bikes anymore. So... that being said, support the small shops in your local area. Also, I found out the heads on the M8 are junk, and you need to get a vented oil plug, or their will be problems with the engine oil over time. Sorry, for the most part, I'll stick to my Twin Cam. If I want something better than that, I'll go get a bike with an Evo. I can't say that I can trust an M8 at this time. IMHO, I don't think the quality is there yet for me to purchase one.
You should be a teacher, man! Great videos! Thank you!
Thanks! We have a lot of fun doing these, and seem to be reaching out to those who need! Stay tuned for more to come!
maybe they changed it but you need to put a feeler gauge between the lifter and the S&S cuffs when you tighten the bolt. the cuff will rub against the lifter if you dont make sure you have space.
Solid upgrades for sure. S&S makes great stuff. I think you're overstating the potential for failure here. Most at risk are '17s, early '18s, and bikes that are ridden hard. Gonna beat on it? Do these upgrades. I'm a 25 year HD tech.
I agree. All the M8 failures I see are 17 and 18s.
Hi William,. I have quite a few bikes in my customer base that are later than 18, and they all have shown swamping issues, as well as high crank case pressures. The motor company states they fixed all of this in 18, but I can say without a doubt that they still have issues. I have heard from a few 2021 owners, and they state they don't have the heat build up and low power issues that swamping creates so that leads me to believe that Harley has resoled something but I cannot confirm it. Best bet, ride it and see what happens. If you have issues develop, you know where to turn to fix it. Best bet is to just educate yourself. Kevin Baxter over at Baxter's Garage has great content to support what he see's. He's a much bigger shop than me, and has bigger volume of customers.
My friend who just bought a 2019 cvo street glide with 131 screaming eagle is complaining about how hot it runs. He thinks it’s the 2 into 1 D&D exhaust. What do you think?
@@thanosetsitty1896 what is he comparing it to? I mean, it is a 131" air cooled motor. It has to shed the heat somewhere and the motor happens to be between your knees. I wouldn't blame the exhaust. The stock with the cat would be hotter. I wrapped my rear pipe under the heat shield to give my wife's leg a break.
@@thanosetsitty1896 Exhausts don't typically cause a bike to run hot. If anything, an aftermarket exhaust without a converter in it will help cool the bike down a touch. Most likely, he's got a swamping issue with the crankshaft, the other thing I have seen is the oilers under the pistons loose, and it causes the bike to run hotter than usual. I am not saying these are in fact what's causing it, but these are the most common things I have run into. That bike if running correctly, shouldn't run hot. It's hard to diagnose a bike that's not in front of me. Does the bike run hot when running at freeway speeds, or just around town? Any service lights on the dash illuminated? And lastly, what kind of engine upgrades have been done besides exhaust? What state of tune has the eco had to support any mods??
Great video. Great info. However, there was no mention of checking the cam/crank gear alignment or tappet cuff alignment. IIRC, S&S instructions reference the service manual for the gear alignment, and provides the gap spec for the tappet cuffs. In my experience, the tappet cuffs rotate when torquing them down without a feeler gauge, and the tappets will then bind. Placing the spec'd feeler gauge in place while torquing prevents this.
I have add, it is great to see a plate/pump only video. It is an awesome reference for people who are at juat that step in the process without having to sort through an hour of cam and bearing replacement I have seen in other videos. Great angles as well.
Thanks for the feed back Michael! I should have covered that in the video. I try and bring the simplicity of things I do to the do it yourself folks, or at least bring folks info in a way they can understand so when they face the cost of an upgrade or breakdown, they can be somewhat educated. I will bring the more technical aspects of the in the upcoming videos I do. The bike we performed the work on for this piece had a stage two done already, and I had checked the distances between shots. I stock the various washers and such here in the shop. Thanks again for the suggestions!
Very interesting Video for me to understand how a Harley engine works.
My M 8 is a Sport Glide 2018. I am not s mechanic, an i dont understand all you talking about (American dialect) cause iam german.
Did u say the Oil pump must be changed as an generell rule or can i do it after a certain part of miles?
Best regards from Augsburg Germany
The oil pump can be upgraded by itself, but the plate offers better cam and crank support, as well as the passages that are machined into it as they have plugs that offer cleaning if a failure occurs. The bypass/pressure regulator is also adjustable in them, as the engines grow in performance needs but the adjustment takes a special fixture from the cam plate manufacturer to check it.
I know this post is old but I was wondering if you could put all the links to the parts you installed in the description part. This would be so helpful for us non mechanics to order. Great video! I feel like I can change these parts out myself now. New subscriber!
Great Instruction! Liked and subscribed!
Woohoo!!
Great job Gary Thanks for great info, I have A 2002 fat boy with timken Crank Bearing I had to upgrade to hydraulic cam tensioners and new cam plate $$$$$$$ harley screwed us there ...same thing on 2004 FLH $$$$$ AND HARLEY DROPED TIMKEN crank bearing in 2003 doesn't anybody @harley see how terrible there crank run outs are??? most people should not even upgrade to high output oil pumps with 0.06 to 0.13 runout but its harley's new normal. I installed the screaming eagle 6 speed transmission upgrade this is horrible I had to repair it 3 times in 10,000 miles never use one !!!!!!!!!!!!
M-8 is a sumping mess.. plastic lifter guides ..and there 18538-99C lifters have a high failure rate, every M-8 off the line should have a fuelling or similar vented oil cap ..since when do customers pay for manufacturing defects .. harley hits people with a new version M-8 OIL PUMP FROM 2017 TO 2019 at CUSTOMERS COST " we fucked up but you pay for our mistake " WOW!! love the biker life but harley needs to hear a little word RECALL THEY ARE SHITTING on lots of loyal customers SAD !!!!!!! great channel Gary keep it up.
I couldn't agree with you more Brando! It's tough to see the haters comment like we hate the M8. We're just trying to make it better. We're stuck with what the motor company builds, and my customer base ranges from pinheads to the current. I have always said the aftermarket built a better Harley than Harley ever built. Unfortunately for us, recalls only follow safety related issues, not engineering flaws. Thanks for the comments! And keep the lifestyle alive!
Thankyou very much for all this information! Very well done!
Thanks Greg! I'm glad you enjoyed the video! If there is something that you'd like to see, drop a comment and I'll see if we can make that happen!
I've had 2 twin cam engines FXD and FXDL. No problems. My 07 Low rider 96 had Stage 1 and a cam. Plenty of power. Even my 04 Stage 1 88 was quick. I'd buy another Dyna FXDL in a second. Perfect for me and it is beautiful. Great video!
Great job on this video! Love the RevZilla stickers!
Thanks Joe! We have a lot of fun shooting these. Yes, I'm a Reveille fan......LOL
Great video........If you leave the cam cover off and then adjust the push rods you would know you are at TDC #1 cylinder and then one revolution lining up the timing marks for TDC #2
Harley should pay for the upgrade! This is the reason I’ll never sell my 98 EVO Road King. It’s outlasted the twin cams and the M8 to date.
Ha! We all wish they would, but to this day they never will admit that their stuff fails. It loses trust when a dealer says oh no, we don't see that happen. Look at all the forums! They're loaded with owners like yourself that say the same things. In my opinion, the EVO was the best engine they ever built. I have had several, and still have one to this day. I do enjoy my second gen twin cam, but I've made it reliable, and at a high cost. The M8.....They can keep it.
This is exactly why after making me "upgrade" to a big twin I'll be going back to a Sportster.
@@jamessouthworth1699 NO KIDDING!!!!!! They don't have issues!
@@LateNiteVTwin you are SO RIGHT man 🤔You can upgrade the motors example my 2005 Duece with the shit tensioner s ( hopefully with gears ) with the S+S full kit , high output oil pump , adjustable push rods ECT ECT then hopefully KEEP IT. This is one reason dudes and dudettes are keeping their motorcycles they make reliable instead of paying top dollar for the next Harley-Davidson calamity.👍🏼😎🇺🇸
Thanks Gary. You know how to communicate well with the novice DIY home mechanic. Liked and Subscribed
Terry, thank you for stopping in! I'm glad to help, and reach out anytime!
Thanks for this video. Your delivery and presentation is spot on and very informative. I bought a 2020 Slim and now worry this is my fate. What would this complete swap out cost roughly? I’m thinking I might just dive in and get it done. And does this kind of upgrade void warranty? It may seem like a dumb question, but stupider things have happened.
No question is dumb Mathew! Only dumb answers......It all depends on how much of the upgrade you do. The video we shot here was just the pump, plate and cuff upgrade. The owner already had the stage two done when the bike was purchased so we didn't need the cams or adjustable pushrods. There's quite a few companies that offer a complete cam chest upgrade that include a choice of cam grinds. The pump and plate will run about 6-700, cams are anywhere from 250-500 depending on brand and grind. By you performing the upgrade, it won't void warranty, but any manufacturer will tell you if an aftermarket part causes a stock part to fail, then they won't help you. By performing these simple things in an M8. you'll definitely save yourself the grief of having internal damage, and stopping the dealer from installing the same parts back in the bike that failed the first time. I hope this helps!
We also did the S&S premium lifters! Forgot to throw that in! The whole reason for the upgrade!
I just stumbled onto you over a year after you posted this and I have to say this is the most thorough and descriptive DYI video I've seen on this yet! Between you and Kevin Baxter I think I can learn all I ever need to! I have a '17 Ultra Limited with the 107 that I've added the Screamin' Eagle air cleaner in the stock cover and Cary Faas Slip ons' with the black screamin' Eagle tuner and a dyno tune at my local dealer. I gained 6 HP to (83) and 9 ft. lbs. of torque to (110). I wasn't really going for a seat of the pants difference, realizing your not going to get that with a Stage 1 upgrade out of this engine. I was simply going for looks and sound. It might run a touch better and cooler but barely noticeable. I don't thrash on this bike, or ride long distances at high RPM so I haven't experienced any issues. In fact I've only put about 1000 miles a year on it for personal and geographical reasons so it's just rolling onto 5000 miles. I've been keeping an eye on this issue and even although I'm not experiencing any problems, upgrading to this S&S kit would probably still be in my best interest for longevity purposes. I tend to hang onto things for a long time and I love this bike. Would it be worth installing a cam upgrade while I'm in there without getting too crazy. I'm really not looking for any more performance for a 900 lb. cruiser, just to add a little character to the idle lope for my own satisfaction.
You forgot to mention one very important thing to check to see if you can even do this mod or not. S&S oil pumps are designed to work with pinion shaft runout up to
0.005. If it exceeds the 0.005 measurement then what?
Installing a new cam bearing fixes this problem doesn't it?
@@jeremyaurand258 I think it would require a new crank as the stock Harley cranks are plugged and the tolerances vary.
Great video and your explanation is as clear as water. Just got myself a 2017 m8 107 road king and will do the adjustment you recommended. Thanx a lot for you time and video. Greetings from the other side of the pond.
I’ll be doing this soon, thanks for the tips 👍 Also made my own crankcase breather. I’ve seen two arguments over having a check valve or free breathing vent with a filter. Thoughts?
Well, a check valve doesn't offer the air to move back and fourth......The Fueling unit does not have a check vale. I don't check vale the ones I've built.....
I've successfully done many cam chest upgrades holding the back brake instead of using a lock tool. With that small of a torque amount The wrench clicks long before the brake gives.
Great tip! I always appreciate the skills brought to the table by others!
Nothing new here, same old el cheapo assembly on the line that H-D has always had from the very 1st series since the Flathead. If you’ve decided to ride/own an H-D you must be willing to correct the crappy or regret you’re purchase. From the Evo pulling studs and burning oil as soon as you add a little performance to the TC and now M8, if you want to ride these old school air/oil cooled beasts you gotta be willing to either do the work or pay to have it done.
then go watch a honda video slick
Twin cam marble motor. So disappointing to know an American company screws Americans, that seem to love it.
Nice, clear and simple video, thanks, Gary!
“Harley Davidson...Draining Our Customer’s Bank Accounts Since Our Inception!”
"Harley-turning fuel into noise since 1903" ( and i ride one!)
@@chuck7432 I own a Harley and I'm broke as fuck. Harleys aren't supposed to be for RUB's.
You're great at explaining the entire job!!! Now I finally understand how to adjust my push rods!!!! Thank you
Do u realize that s&s instructions tell u to torque the cam plate first, then the oil pump. Plus u don’t talk about checking the offset between the cam gear and the pinion gear.
Troy, you are correct, I will make a correction in my next post coming up on some M8 stuff I'm working on. Good catch......Like always, read the service manuals........Thanks for the heads up.
My '18 Street Glide stage 2 upgrade consisted of the S&S 465C cam, their premium lifters and billet tappet cuffs, Quickee adjustable pushrods, and the latest Harley oil pump with 8-lobe scavenge gerotor. Finished off with the S&S Stealth air cleaner. All tuned with TTS Mastertune. Very happy with the results and should be reliable too.
thats a great combo!
i hav a 2017 m8 engine on my road king stage 3. i havent had any problems. i hav over 72,000 miles on it, whats up with all the bad mouthing of the m8 engine
I'm not bad mouthing the M8, I only do some of the M8 vids to help others when they have issues with the bikes. Harley has a problem, and won't admit to it. I have a pretty good relationship with my local dealer, as I rely on them for parts support for my shop. They are pretty honest and I have heard the say from quite a few employees that 2 out of 10 bikes are decent. The shops across the country are loaded with M8 issues and from what I see online with used bikes sales, there's more M8 platforms up for grabs because people are tired of some of the issues. There's always a way around the problem. The aftermarket has great support. They wouldn't invest millions in R&D to make what they make without reason. I have to poke the ribs of the motor company from time to time, as I see what my customers drag in the door after it fails or they lose faith in the deals they deal with not supporting on how they address the issue. I'm always excited to hear the success stories like yours. It somehow keeps the faith in the platform.
It would really suck to spend over 20K on a bike just to turn around and spend a few thousand more to make sure the brand new bike is reliable. Hats off to The Motor Company for releasing such a well though out product.
I couldn't agree with you more!
I’ve been wanting a Harley for years but always back out due to the unreliability problems. One would think as Harley is hurting that they would make more reliable bikes. These videos make me even more concerned. I mean how many people can afford to put down $24,000 on a new bike just to hand it over to a trusty qualified bike tech to make the unreliable bike reliable. I have had many friends buy them with too many problems. It can’t be that difficult to make a reliable bike, Honda has been doing it for many years
You are right! If you haven't yet, don't. I never worked on my Shadow, got Superglide and been in it 4 times in 2 years. Horrible power, and clunky shit.
@Just J I have both a 2019 Breakout (13k-miles) and a 2019 Fat Boy (8k-miles). I left them both stock and haven’t had any problems with either one. I have a 7-year warranty on both so if there’s ever a problem, then H-D can fix it. My riding buddy owns a 2015 Honda GW and has had nothing but problems with it. I had a 2014 Kawasaki Concours that went through tires like crazy and needed lots of maintenance. I traded it for the Fat Boy and couldn’t be happier.
Japanese, Indian, and European bike dealers are few and far between. Harley has a huge nationwide dealer network. Harley is selling every bike they can build. The dealers can’t keep bikes in stock. As soon as new bikes are delivered they’re sold within days, including the CVO’s and Trikes.
GREAT! Keep your Honda! BTW, why do you watch these Harley repair videos if you already know that Harleys are an unreliable, overly-expensive piece of shit?
get a evo harley its the most reliable engine that harley ever made and are very easy to work on
Thanx for the laugh, spit my coffee.
This man needs to bring back videos
...and Harley's R&D people didn't see this with their test engines?
Nope! If you ask most dealers, they say no problem here! To many folks online chat about the same issues!
Long time Harley Davidson owner/ rider here. I don't think I would buy a new Harley Davidson. I just keep my old ones but it is starting to get hard to find parts. Maybe I will end up on a rice burner one day. This saddens my heart.
Why in gods name should i UPGRADE my 2019 fxbr when it runs fine scaremongering from S&S will not make me buy parts.
Hey Scoot Jockey, I'm only on here helping out the community of bikes that I service and repair. No where did I ever say you had to do this to your bike or what parts to buy?? I read the forums, and I have good relationships with dealers I can trust for info, So I try and pass on what I know is a fix for this platform. Every product will have some kind of issue no matter the brand name. I'm just trying to help out anyone who wants to save a few bucks and do the repairs themselves instead of paying through the nose to a shop or dealer they can't trust. I hope you have good luck with your M8. I'm not here to bash them, I'm only here to help make them perform better with reliability.
Runs Fine till it Breaks and Destroys Our Engines.. Prevention is Always better than the Cure. These a Basic Upgrades to give any Bike Long-term Reliability ..Your Choice. Oh,,I Highly Recommend Upgrading your Oil Pump for Either 2020 4th Gen or SnS or Fueling too..Good luck.
Hi Late Nite V Twin, Liked & Subscribed, you popped up on my algorithm, thank you for the great video, you are truly a Harley Davidson Master Mechanic, really appreciate all you do for the Harley Davidson family, Ride Hard💪🏼, Be Blessed 🙏🏽Aloha, Kenneth 🤙🏽
Damn Harley Davidson, get your heads out of your asses, and make it right the first time! Did Harley ever fix this problem and start using metal ?
This paradigm which has run through 4 platforms now really gets to me. PLastic!!!!
I design medical products and it seems like all of these manufacturers go through a process called "mitigating risk". They will design and test parts of various materials, consider each of their costs for production, etc...then they decide how much risk they are willing to take in the parts failure in relation to profit. It sucks, but plastics are way cheaper, easy to mold and if the part can maintain certain level of "confidence levels", they go with what will cost the least to maintain profits. They know full well that a metal would last longer and be better, but to the mothership, it costs more to produce...bottom line...unfortunate for us, but that's the way business works and how the bean counters call the shots.
Thanks. I wanted to hear it run.
Funny that people watch these videos and fall for this shit 😂 LS engines have been using plastic lifter cuffs for 2 decades. The moral of this story is, “I’m an Indy this is why you should bring your bike to me” 😂
It's a lifter axle failed that causes the lifter to twist in the bore...... but hey, it's just money right??
@@LateNiteVTwin Doesn’t the M8 use the same lifters as the twin cam?
@@MilkMan608 yup.
@@MilkMan608 It sure does! You have to watch out for failures in the twin cam, but it doesn't have the plastic cuff holding them, it uses the case bores, with a hardened rod to locate them. I replace them all the time, so much, that I put adjustable push rod kits in inventory for those who don't have them yet.
GM is junk. Wouldn't bolster the use of plastic, because they do it. They can't even engineer a good electric fuel pump. Gauges are junk. Magic stick is junk. Body control module is junk. Intake manifold is junk. Front diffo actuator is junk. I'd go on, but my suppers ready.
I found this video extremely helpful. Job well done. I was wondering why you didn't replace the cam bearings since you already had it torn down.
🛑🛑 Harley should have stuck with the Twin Cam, and finished the “progression of the 110”; before moving to the M8.
I agree with you on this one. I'm a fan of the second gen twin cam. It's a great platform, and easy to upgrade with great results. I know that every new platform that comes our way, weather it's a new engine or trans will have it's issues, but I would think that the companies would learn from the failures and make adjustments along the way of its progression. To simply have the same issues in the whole time the M* has been out, going on 4 years in production, we still have the same issues. At least the valve seat failures in the heads from 17 were dealt with. I haven't seen that on the 18 and later bikes. I agree with you on the 110. They had a 113 bolt on big bore for the that and it never really caught on? I run a 117' twin cam build in my Roadglide, and it's been very reliable and fun to ride!
@@LateNiteVTwin
I’m Upgrading my 2016 CVO Limited Twin Cam from the 110 to a 117 this winter. I’m looking forward to the results 😂👍
@@genekelley7579 Oh man, you're going to love that set up! I used Revolution Performance
's set up. The barrels are nickasil coated, they don't have steel liners in them, great heat dissipation! My motor made some good numbers, close to 130 ft.lbs. torque. I used the Woods w9 cam, and Screaming Eagle CNC ported heads, along with the Woods offset rocker towers. Super happy with the performance and mileage. Let me know how your build goes!
@@LateNiteVTwin
Can Do😀👍
Still gathering everything up right now for the build. It should happen by Mid February👍
@@LateNiteVTwin
Your bike sounds “really strong 💪 “ with those numbers 😎👍
This is an EXCELLENT educational video. Very well explained with step by step instruction made easy for everyone to follow. I am much more confident in doing this. I have a 2018 Street Glide with the 107 that I truly love and want to keep running for ever. I may still take it to Harley In Barrie Ontario Canada to get this done, I have the extended warrantee on the bike.
I learned something after watching this......to go buy a Honda.
What a freaking joke this company is. I've been looking a Harleys for two months. Everytime I find a bike I want, I do research only to find out that once more Harley did a half azzed job.
LOL. I have a 17' M8 road glide special with a HD dealer installed stage 4 kit. Well.... they didn't upgrade the 8 valve springs and left the stock oil pump. In April of 2019, I'm riding into oatman Arizona during the laughlin river run and all 8 valve springs snapped on me at the same time. They couldn't handle the pressure. I ended up u-hauling my shiny Harley all the way back to LA County. Harley immediately told me that I was out of factory warranty. It was a fucking shit show. I ended up forking out 2 grand to get the problem fixed with new heavy duty valve springs and a complete feuhling cam chest and oil pump. Biggest disappointment ever.
The reason I went to Indian after 25 years of riding Harleys
Yeah, they all have their issues, I think because the purchase of a Harley is way more than a Honda, it leave a sour taste in peoples mouths. They can be reliable with simple upgrades. If you find the right bike at the right price, many have done these upgrades already and it saves you in the long run??