In vehicle GM 3.6L VVT timing chain replacement (code P0008) teardown gotchas and hints
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- Опубліковано 5 сер 2017
- This video was taken following the teardown of the right side of the engine and removal of the timing cover. It is not intended to be a step by step guide, rather a set of "gotchas" I encountered during the teardown. The vehicle (a 2009 Buick Enclave) has a check engine light with a code of P0008, indicating timing chain wear, and the vehicle demonstrates poor performance when driving. From my research this issue is a known and common major repair needed between 100K and 180K miles on vehicles with the 3.6l VVT motor. This repair is not recommended for amateur mechanics (such as myself) and would be much easier if a lift was used to drop the engine from the vehicle as demonstrated in other videos on youtube. This is an interference engine and any error in the reinstallation of the timing chains will result in catastrophic engine damage - proceed with extreme caution.
Cloyes provides an excellent video on the actual timing chain replacement: • GM 2.8/3.0/3.2/3.6L Ti... .
Gear puller for Harmonic Balancer: www.harborfreight.com/3-piece... - Авто та транспорт
For folks concerned about my breathing - thank you for the concern - I have seen a doctor and am completely fine. I have a condition called vocal cord paresis, my vocal cords do not completely open when I inhale, this makes me sound wheezy/out of breath. It is not severe enough to warrant treatment, so it is simply an annoyance.
How long that take you to be done whit the job ?
Should try Wim Hof method for a couple weeks and see if you notice any changes.
Dude your ok 👍
I have the same condition from being medicly intubated its awful to deal with
Thank God, I thought you were dying
I've done 3 of these 3.6 engine timing chain job. With the engine in the vehicle. Is very easy to remove the fuse box out of your way. Remove the motor mount next to the cv axle so you can move the engine up and down. And to remove the harmonic balaner use a chrysler harmonic balancer puller...
What way does it come out , thru the top or bottom. Would you remove the radiator to slide up thru there??
Where do you live? If, by some miracle you are close I would pay for you to do another
@@Armando-xp2ji out the bottom with the front subframe. I did maybe my 5-6th one Monday. It took me 1.5 hrs to have the engine out and car lifted off of it. Much easier my way
What did you use to rotate the engine
What's the part number for the harmonic balancer puller? Thanks.
For anyone attempting this job, it "can" be done with the engine still in the car (as he said) However, when it comes time to take the bolts off the Timing Cover, get yourself a big enough piece of cardboard, draw the exact shape and size of the Timing Cover onto the cardboard, and as you remove the bolts from the Timing Cover, poke a hole thru the cardboard with the bolts into the same place as you took it off. The reason for this is, so you put the Timing Cover Bolt[s] thread[s] match back into their original place/spot on the engine. Also, if you want to save a bit of time, you can leave the Power Steering Pump in place and just cut a little notch into it, enough to fit a socket. The notch will be minimal and cause no damage to anything. I did this myself with my own vehicle, put it all together and going on 260,000 miles, she still purrs like a kitten. Good video and advice Mate. Great job!
Thanks for the tip!!
coopdc78 your welcome 🙂
Where is this notch going? Just starting this job on my 2010 Acadia it just looks like a nightmare to get down to timing cover!
What brand timing kit did you use? Im skeptical about AC Delco. I want the one with the stongest chains.
@@DarrelllCampbelll ac delco is original gm
Hey George, first off I would like to thank you for this video. By proving it could be done in the vehicle I went for it. I took your recommendation very seriously and removed the bumper, radiators, core support, and basically the entire front of the vehicle. This seemed to make it substantially easier to access things and was not much additional time or labor. Food for thought. Again, thank you so much for your tips and advice.
It actually depends on the vehicle, I have an 09' Acadia and am prob gonna have to tackle this cause twice now the P0008 code came up but the car is running fine, "For now🙄" ..... That being said the frame rail on the acadia is much closer than the car in this video so goes to say, it depends on the vehicle. If I would of known about this and the transmission issues in these GMC's I wouldnt of bought one, cause to be honest, its a real shit show of a job. And just to add the Cloyes Kit is not the good one you really should spend the money and get the MELLING kit. It comes with the water pump, phasers, sprockets, and oil pump, plus the chains have more links versus the lousy 4 with the cloyes. I get it you tried to save money but to me this job absolutely sucks and if Im trying to keep a vehicle for another 100,000 miles than its just more logical while you have it all apart to replace everything. Thanks for the video though it def made me not want to do this job even more lol.
Thanks for the tips George. Changed the timing chains out on my wife's Acadia last week, and you saved me some time by pointing out problem areas.
thank you Mr. Kistler for making this video. you helped me a WHOLE LOT. thank you!
Thank you so much for the helpful video! I just did some chains at my shop today and this video saved me some serious time. I would like to say that I found it easier to get to the back bolt on the power steering pump if you remove the exhaust. I have pics but it won't let me post them. Thank you so much for this video
Thank you for your honest comments and confirming it can be done in the vehicle.
Vocal cord paresis. My son has that. It affects how he sound when he breaths and talks. Great video. Thanks for taking time to do it.
Excellent video - valuable information. Well done and thank you!
Also wanted to say this video really is a great help thank you
That's dedication!! Good work man.
With the help of this video, the linked Cloyes instructions and alldatadiy, I was able to tackle this on my wife's Acadia last weekend.....appreciate it. One comment and one question-----dropping the passenger side of the engine cradle was the ONLY way for me to get the steering pump out, everything else on here is spot on. Even with the cradle dropped, I wasn't able to completely remove it, but I did get it unbolted and pushed toward the driver's side far enough to be out of the way.
Pretty nervous turning the key after I finished, but purred like a kitten......until the rpms went to idle (750 or so), then it stated throwing a random multiple misfire code. Doesn't necessarily feel like it is running to rough (certainly not like before), but I can feel a fain "stutter" every once in a while. Not enough to even notice on the tach, but I guess it's enough for the ECM to think there's a bunch of misfires. Alldata says I need to have a Crankshaft Position Variation Learn procedure performed, basically pegging the two extremes for the position sensors. Has anyone that completed this job needed to do this? Have this feeling that it would complete the job and get everything back to normal.
Did you ever figure this out? I'm interested
I did. Ended up bending 3 valves when the chain jumped timing. Had to take it (driven) to a shop so they could drop the engine and replace those valves.
Ran perfect for the remainder of the time we owned it. Ended up selling a month or so later.
@@nathanhumston9515 do you think it was the c l o y e s kit? I'm right at the point in the job where I'm going to set the timing. I have a c l o y e s kit that came with the car. Happy to go by OEM
If it's in time check fuel pump module coil packs and plugs
Video is good to go. Good info and thanks for posting.
Forget this been driving my 2009 Enclave 114k for 3 years starts everyday no problems strong quiet runner but watching this I'm getting rid of this & going back to my durable Toyota/Lexus models with 300k+ durable timing chains
Appreciate the video - have done dozens of chains over the years but have not swung a wrench in some time. Chevy just quoted $2600 for the job and after seeing your video I think I will pay it!! (Still not convinced my car is worth the $2600 though!!)
They just quoted me $2500 and it’s just leaking coolant and needs sealant. Worst car I’ve ever owned
Thank you this video really helps me
👍🏻
Great tips. Thanks for the help.
Awesome detailed video! Thanks
Great video,will be doing this myself
Thanks for the video, I just did this on a 2010 acadia. What a pain in the butt it was. Autozone had a puller on the shelf that fit the crank pulley.
How did you hold the flywheel when you were removing the crank shaft bolt?
Was the code also P008?
@@amit604 i think so, it had 2 codes. Sadly is spun a bearing and i sold it for $800
I just watched this video, and you are a GOOD friend not to recommend this job to a friend. LOL.
what is the replacement interval for this engine ?
Excellent.... thanks for the info .... great vid
I can hear the stress in your voice, not easy. I changed the timing belt on my Mitsubishi 380. I did it but never again alttle too stressful for me.
George...well done video.👍👍
having done mine now with this engine two things. The rear power steering bolt can be accessed underneath the vehicle. you need to remove the exhaust piping coming from the Cat converters and the heat shields but you can get to it from underneath and can see what you are doing. It's a pain but at least you're not blind and can have access to see what you are doing. Two, I as able to get the timing cover out and in (with rtv on it) without taking out the cam phasers. It's a pain and you have to be very careful but I was able to do it without getting RTV all over the place.
Great vid! Thanks for the assistance. Your wife is a lucky woman to have such a handy husband.
Same problem in Australia with the Alloytech V6. Timing chains all out of whack and a big bill to fix it if you can't do it yourself. Our affected cars are mostly rear wheel drive.
Thanks for the video, made it a whole lot easier for me, just got done with it. Did u have any random misfires after completing the job?
George kistler thanks for all the tips. How long did the cloyes kit last you. I've heard of some going bad so I'm just wondering if I should go OEM. I am to the point in the project where I'm going to set the timing. Anything I should know or any other tricks or is it just reassembly?
Thanks for your information buddy 👍
I looked on eBay for the parts, have you had any issues since the repair? How many mile do you have on the new set?
How did it turn out for you? Good I hope. 😊
You should have removed the fuse box it's 2 10mm bolts where the fuses are to remove the plug ins under it would have given you more room just another hint for anyone doing this job
If you intend to keep your vehicle for as long as you can, I wouldn't dare opt for the cheap chain set. The last thing you need is to have those codes show up again in even less mileage than they did for the OE chains. GM had an issue with some of them and what often happens is functional but substandard parts deemed not fit for production use are sold in lots at a steeply discounted price, to whomever and they can be sold to the unsuspecting public as new OE normals.
There's also an influx of substandard parts from China. I purchased a Cloyes set from Rockauto for my CTS, which is a lot less of a headache for this procedure since it is rear wheel drive and the motor faces the "correct" direction. Some repairs are too laborious to risk using inexpensive off brand parts. GM could make these chains last longer if they wanted to, but there's too much money to be made in their future by forcing your hand when your otherwise healthy but well used car is facing a repair that costs near its value when it reaches 200k miles, or is 10 yrs old. Many will take the plunge and buy a new car. I say use full synthetic and 3-4000 mile oil changes as these motors due to the high number of moving parts are hard on oil. I changed the timing components at 178,000 in my CTS because I felt it was time and didn't want to risk a sudden failure. I never had codes associated with them despite seeing considerable elongation in the old chains when compared to the new.
Agreed - and ended up going with an OE set after finding one of the tensioners was bad.
for such a known problem, why would you skimp on parts? did you get a cloyes kit?
So how hard was it to align the timing marks on the phasers and chains? I'm about to tackle that once I replace the bank 1 exhaust cam phaser. Thanks man.
It took me 5 full days to do this job on a Saturn Aura XR with the same 3.6 DOHC engine. The only difficult part was locating a gear puller for the crank pulley. The rest is just time. Sure I could've done it quicker but I also wanted to make sure it was done right the first time.
TrakSpock1 had the timing chains jump out of place or where they still in place. Im doing one right now. I was told that if the timing had jumped it woumd bend the valves
Bruce case - The timing chains did not jump on my nephews Saturn Aura XR 3.6 but they had stretched so far that the car ran like absolute garbage with all kinds of "service engine soon" lights and traction control faults. I'm not sure the circumstances with your particular vehicle but you could perform a leak down test if you are really worried about bent valves. Unknowingly, we drove my nephews Saturn with stretched timing chains for almost 2 years.
I can vouch for this - I had it jump and had to have the heads redone - bad times all around.
So exactly what puller did you use?
Do you have video from start to finish? I have an Acadia but I don't want to remove anything unnecessarily.
Were you able to get everything that goes to the timing chain replacement or did you have to buy parts separately
Is there any videos on taking out the heads and all the wiring. I'm working on that right now and it is a pain.
hey man im having a problem with my 2010 v6 LLT camaro i just got the timing chain replaced and my cars been running fine for two days since i got it back then just today i noticed my car starts to jerk/bogg out... when im at a stop light and i want to accelerate hard it boggs out and it wants to die but it doesnt die ... theres no CEL on so do you think my coil packs are bad or spark plugs i really need help with this!! thanks
Is working good now after that?
Wondering if it all worked out for u when u got done, or if u still had to tweak with it
I'm a pretty good Shade Tree Mechanic and I can handle that! 👍🏾💪🏾😁
You sound like you want to cry. I’am sorry! Too much for me. Thanks for the video.
Have a go at this and you will know why...
Screw this.... that's an awful job
This is the first video I have watched that was done in the car.. the rest have dropped the motor… but good info
Thank you for the reference...😉
Did this fix the problem?
George- in the middle of this job right now on my wife's SRX. This video is a huge help. Question- how are you turning the engine to stage 2, per the cloyes video without the harmonic balancer in the car?
I put the balancer bolt in with an impact gun, and then used a 24" breaker bar with a socket on a couple extensions to turn the engine. Hope the job goes well sir!
can I get the cloyes "how to remove timing cover video link Please
What is the part number in the timing chain ?
I just completed one of these same vehicle 2day was not tryna fight it in the car was much more easy LIFTING the body off the engine. Wasn't bad as I thought
So you lifted the body and kept the engine down?
What did you use to hold the flywheel during crankshaft pulley bolt removal. My alldata is assuming I'm dropping the engine. Has me remove the starter and install a $150 flywheel jig m the starter hole to hold the flywheel.
I used a wrench on the camshaft flats believe it was 20 or 22mm.
George, I am hoping to attempt this repair myself, as the shop wants $3400 to do it. I'm planning on replacing the water pump and some other components as preventative measures. I've replaced a timing 'belt' on my Honda Accord successfully, however I haven't found a good step by step with doing this in an Acadia with the engine in place. Your video is helpful. Do you have a step by step of the components needing removal to get at the timing chain with the engine in place? Also, what fluids need to be removed before starting? I'm assuming the coolant. Does the oil need to be drained? What about the AC? (I'm hoping to avoid that one). Thanks!!
Hi Jason, Oil and Coolant need to be drained, otherwise when you pull the cover much of the coolant will drain into the pan. The AC compressor does not have to be touched. By memory, the torque strut mount, alternator stud and idler, the power steering reservoir, upper radiator hose, electrical box, and associated brackets all need to come off to do it in the car. I dont know if you read the full comments on this post, but I have changed my tune re: the ebay timing set, the one ordered had a defective tensioner and it resulted in the job being repeated 3 times, ended up going OEM, but cloyes makes a great set as well. Good luck!
Is the grey sealant you mentioned for the timing chain cover? also did you have to hold the CAMS in place when you took the chains off or did they stay?
Thanks for the video
Its par for the course with these fwd v6 vehicles.. Good vid though, thumbs up!
I just did the timing chain in 2011 chevy equinox, now my wife's Acadia just popped a p008 code. Engine runs fine. The 2.4 Equinox was a piece of cake compared to this. Not sure I want to attempt this.
this seems to been a problem for nearly all 3.6 gm engines..Gm needs to get there crap together..they don't care about quality.
Sorry disagree with your statement.Everyone wants more HP in a car with fuel economy, this means the engines are much more complex than 35 years ago.For the record Toyota,Lexus (aka Toyota) Honda,and many other overseas cars and American made have the same issues as in this video.Engine has to be removed to do timing chains.
@@apacheone3643 sorry I disagree with your disagree. Yes cars were made simpler in earlier years, but that's not always better. Cars know a days are better in many ways other then hp. I'm not talking about heated seats, brake assist or so called add ons. I'm talking just overall drive. I own a small auto repair shop in Brecksville ohio. GM has had a lot of issues in many different categories. Case in had this engine has a timing issue that is uncalled for. This should not be a issue, yet poor design and parts pay the role. Yes every make has issues but Honda seems to have less and less serious issues. Toyota also is a good car other then poor headgasket around 2004 year Camrys. It seems that Honda sticks to a design and over years improves yet GM especially ford seems more to scrap and try new ways. That seems to bit them it the butt. Case in hand ford 3 valve plugs. Chevy with their new 2019 engine Electric cooling system crap. That looks like a overheating disaster. Instead of just keeping what works and improving they just went in left field. Also nothing is America made. If it was it would last a long time. We have rules and regulations that oversees everything is clean safe tested. Overseas most workplaces are dirty, overworked not tested or double checked. So more issues are more likely to occur
@@lovetolearn5253 Well I will say this Honda's have many issues with there transmissions failures, and timing issues with there VVT.Toyota's Are know for crack heads between the valves and timing issues ALSO with there VVT and timing chains stretching in 60,000 miles.Any time we add additional components to a engines valve train we add more of a load ESPECIALLY with 2 ,4 overhead camshafts.The Chevy in this video I have done many of these chains along with other vehicles from Toyota,Ford,Dodge,Honda,Etc.BMW'S with direct injection clog the intake runner's with oil in about 45000 miles requiring a removal of the runner and walnut blasting of the valves. Audi has various recalls on there engines as Consumers complaints are adding 2 qts of oil every two days.(There is a class action suit currently going on) I know this for a fact as a friend of mine just got his car purchase back from Audi. So older engines are concerned cast iron blocks are the engine of choice for any application over the modern aluminum engine they can be easily be adapted to more advanced technology and can handle more HP than a All Aluminium engine.I am not saying the all Aluminium engine are weak as I own a ZL1 650 HP,650 LBS TORQUE.But the limit is about 1100 HP before you need a cast iron block.I have been in this field 40 years and have work on just about everything out there including building race cars.
Never buying GM again
@warriorpluto I am in the Auto/Diesel Field 40 years built many race cars in my years.So with that said Toyota Prius is a junk car as the engines fail around 65000 miles,the Generator motor drivetrain fails in 50000 miles,Any of there overhead cam vehicle needs there timing chains replaced around 60000 miles due to check engine lights ,Honda's are know for transmission issues,battery issues on the hybrids.I have replaced timing chains at the normal intervals on GM AT 100000-115000 miles not 60000.So you keep going to your auction's as you most likely buying cars with engines that were transplants.LMAO
I'm in the middle of this job right now on my little sisters 2010 Enclave. She had codes p0017 - p0008 - p0009 on it at 123k miles. Definitely not a fun job to do in a driveway. Some tips from me on my experience so far would be that the screw in the back of the power steering can be removed pretty easily from underneath the car with a long extension and a swivel, you can even see it easily from underneath. And I had to take out both of the studs on the alternator because the idler pulley bolt that also bolts the lower part of the alternator was hitting the frame rail and I couldn't get the pulley off without removing the alternator all the way. I bought a set of cheap cam alignment plates just to make sure I had them right but there is enough play in them to move the chain off a tooth from the mark on the cam phasers so I would definitely suggest using a mirror to make sure that your marks are dead on.
yep yep yep
I took the nut off the top of the bottom motor mount down by the CV joint and that allows you to jack the engine up a little bit and clear that bolt.
Wife called me at work today that our 07 Acadia had Service Stabilitrak, No Traction Control, and Stop Engine messages. Towed back to home by AAA. Put the scanner: all camshafts sensors are bad: P0011 Bank 1, P0014 Bank 1, P0021 Bank 2, and P024 Bank 2. I know it has oil because I topped it off last week and just checked the level: I know these engines love gulping oil. Praying to all gods of all cultures that it is just dirty oil and clogged solenoids....otherwise...if the chain has jumped...I am in for the biggest mechanical job of my life...there is no way I am paying $2500+....Thank you so much for spreading your knowledge....
Thanks Dewi - if the car is still running smoothly, I wouldnt tear into the timing chains, my wifes had the stabilitrak message and it turned out to be the brake switch, also her car is on its third oil pressure sensor, failing oil pressure sensor gave the stop engine message on the first one, the second time it was just noted as failing by the dealer. I can't guarantee those are your issues, but they are cheaper, easier repairs to try.
@@GeorgeKistler thank you for the reply George. You might be correct. It seems odd to me that the car still running smooth but all 4 sensors have gone. Wife did mentioned a message of low oil pressure. I will do a clean up of throttle body, TPS, Mass Air Flow Sensor, and test the oil pressure sensor first this weekend and will report my findings. Thanks again.
@@svca12218 Oil pressure sensor is a bit messy to get at and best done on a cold engine because it is between the alternator and front cat. As far as steps, remove the serpentine belt, unfasten and slide out the idler pulley from the alternator, then undo the 2 15mm nuts securing the alternator at the front of the engine, then use a 7mm socket to pull out the alternator studs. That will allow you to push the alternator out of the way enough to get the special oil pressure sensor socket over the sensor. The socket is like $12 at most auto parts stores.
@@GeorgeKistler You just save me a ton of time. Thanks again.
Thank you for video. How did you remove the idler pulley by the alternator?
It is extremely tight, but if you undo the bolt it will get enough angle to clear the boxed section of the inner fender.
How long did the whole job take you? And did you really put a china timing chain kit in from Ebay. How is it holding up? Or is it a Cloyes kit? I have to do a from cover at my shop next week. I am debating weather or not to change out the chain while I am in there. Great job on the video! Thanks, Mike, Veteran 25+ year mechanic.
Michael Thornton Hi Michael, total time was about 15 hours, air ratchet speeds it up a lot. The Taiwanese kit was a nightmare , one of the tensioners was bad and it skipped a couple links on the front bank. First time it wouldn't start, so I tore it down twice and it ran like trash. I eneded up having to take it into a local shop and they put an OE set in it.
George, I can not thank you enough. I almost cheeped out and bought a china kit. I will get the Cloyes Kit. Ill send you a link for my youtube R&R time. I will try to do it in your 15 hr mark. Thanks again Buddy!
sound like it didn't work out for u but thanks any how
My 2008 equinox locked up on me... I thought about buying a used end and replace the timing components while on the ground..
I gotta say. My husband and I laughed so hard to this. Boy do we feel this pain. We have an 08 saturn outlook and its some bull shit 😂
Hahahahahah you made me laugh😂😂 I have an 07 xl7 AWD. TERRIBLE terrible terrible
Howed that eBay kit hold up
Hi george thanks if i didnt see your video i dont think i would have dived in to this job you definitely inspired me i have the cloyes set and plan on starting the job on a 09 enclave my next off day, quick question did you need the crankshaft socket and guide pins when you did this job? Or did you make do with out. thanks!
You don't "need" the special crank socket but that bolt is on there pretty solid. I used a standard 19mm socket but that special weighted one for crank bolts does look like a cool gadget to have and use. I bought a set of cam plates but the cloyes video doesn't say they are necessary. Good luck sir!
Doesnt p008 means crankshaft sensor?
My 2011 camaro has the p0008 and p0017 code 🤦🏽♂️🤦🏽♂️ I’m guessing this what has to be done.. it runs good but I better get it done before it to late
I have a newer Buick enclave with timing chain issues. It's in the shop NOW. It's costing 3250.
Im in the process of this job right now actually the 3rd time i did use the clyose video the first time but thuoght if it was a true chevy engine mine is sideways as well if you turned the motor normal then the #1 piston would be normally drivers side front of engine front of car!!!!!!not the case with this motor its actually the opposite side like a ford. Thanks gm seriosly!!!!!!! So if you think old school like i did it will crank just fine no resistance at all not even by hand as the book that i now have.it just wont start but it'll act like it wants too. So im tearing it apart again this time #1 piston tdc on compression stroke is set and im removing the heads to have them checked foe warpage bent valves and or cracks. How do i determine that the cam lobes are where they need to be for correcting that theyre timed right as well or do the marks on the phasers take care of that
Doing this job right now on our 2013 enclave (subframe lowered and removed). Started with a trans rebuild, but upon removing valve cover, discovered pitting on right camshaft lobes, as well as darker varnish coloring in right head (I'm blaming pcv...did mod upon seeing the damage).
Bottom line: while it "can" be done in engine bay, removing subframe assembly makes it SO much easier! Plus the lack of frustration gives greater incentive for preventive maintenance/replacement (i.e. mounts, gaskets, starter motor, etc.).
Tip for anyone working on the Lambda platform in their garage: remove the ENTIRE front end (radiator, bumper, plastics, etc.) And the subframe can be lowered using 3 floor jacks (1 each rear side of subframe, 1 in middle front subframe for balance) and 3 furniture dollys to set the subframe down on. Then pull the subframe, now resting on the furniture dollys, straight out the front. The chassis is held up with two jackstands placed behind the wheel wells (where the emergency jacks would normally lift from). No car lift needed.
Do you have pictures or video of this process? What kind of furniture dolly are you referencing? Did you have to disconnect the AC lines?
Jason Hunt I'm using the 1k lbs wooden dollys from harbor freight. Yes, AC and radiator have to disconnect, regardless of removal method. COULD you keep the AC system together? Probably, but likely more trouble than it's worth to squeeze the compressor out.
I have pics, but no place to upload them. Just imagine an Enclave with a big, gaping hole where the bumper and grille should be.
How high did you raise the suv enough to pull out the whole engine/trans assembly ?
The front end doesnt need to come off. Radiator stays with the car
@@justinballard7242 If you remove the front-end, you don't have to lift the body over the height of the engine in order to roll it out.
Removing the front-end allows enough jackstand height for a creeper and your body to get underneath to remove the subframe bolts while the engine assembly is supported from the overhead. Once the subframe and engine components are free, simply lower the assembly down a few inches onto the waiting furniture dollys then roll out the front and free from the body.
IMO, removing the front end makes this job SO much easier with standard home garage tools.
3.6 terrain, took me 15 hours, first time. was a challenge
I salute you.✌✌✌✌💪💪
can you link the video by cloys? you talked about that shows everything plz
scottie 5 - hi Scottie, you can find the link in the video description. Good luck with your repair
Google Cloyes. It is there.
Install entire timing kit. Dont buy local, shop wanted to buy NAPA kit,...it was around $1100-1200 for whole kit. I bought entire cloyes kit for around $800. I wasnt sure if you did, but if you remove lower engine mounts around font(timing side) you can use jack and block to lightly tip front of engine up creating a few more inches of room and wont need to remover phasers at beginning .
You did nail great tips too.
How did you reinstall the cover? If the actuators are in the way how did you reinstall the cover and apply the proper torque to the actuators and all the internal parts. Thanks
Hi Joe, You must remove the actuators before trying to remove the cover, they must remain removed until the cover is fully mounted. It is a bit of an odd twist between slightly down facing and tilted to the rear to get the cover back into place with the engine in the vehicle. I grasped the cover by the crank hole and the upper edge to avoid getting my hands in the sealant bead. As mentioned, it is critical that everything be removed from the passenger side of the engine to have adequate access. It also helps to unbolt the rearmost cam sensor and rotate it 90 degrees clockwise so it doesnt snag on the sound deadening mat on the firewall. I applied permatex ultra grey sealant before replacing the cover, this made a bit of a mess as you will touch stuff with the cover but I wiped off the excess sealant and touched up the smeared areas of the cover in the engine compartment once the cover was positioned and ready to seat. Between topside and bottomside there was adequate space for me to reach all bolts except the rear most bolt above the power steering pump with my 1/2" craftsman clicker torque wrench and tighten to the required 18 ftlbs for the 13mm head fastensers, and 43ftlbs for the 3 larger bolts. For anything I couldnt reach with the torque wrench I just tightened up with a 3/8 ratchet to my guesstimate of 18ftlbs. The 4 actuators go in easily once the cover is in place. The actuators and cam position sensors were only hand tight with a 10mm 1/4 drive socket to begin with, I replaced them to the same condition.
Thanks George for prompt reply, just getting started on the top end. Not much room between the strut tower and the cover. Hope all goes well and i will give you a report on the completion of the repair.
Joe Rubens - be VERY careful with the timing steps. I think I may have bent valves from being off, and am now going into the engine for a third time. I hope your job goes smoothly, good luck to you.
I am sorry to hear about your problem. It has made me take a pause this evening on this project, I may put it back together before I have to call the tow truck. There is not much room to see anything. For the harmonic balancer there is a special heavy socket made by
Lisle #77080. I got it from a tool dealer but you can find it on Amazon. I used it on a timing belt job for a Honda 3.5 v6.It removes the bolt like butter. I am a wholesale dealer and I buy and sell a few cars.
This is the second Traverse and may be the last. The first I was lucky on. All it needed was a
blend door actuator for the ac vent system. I did not know about the p0008 code. I guess we have to learn things the hard way. There is also is a transmission code to be on the watch for. I am not sure about that number. Again thanks for your insight and words of caution. I hope you do not have to pull the heads off for the valves.
Hello again, Hope your project went well. I am about ready for the third act and hopefully the final one. I am getting to know every nut and bolt on this deal. I have learned a few tricks that may help someone. First move the power steering pump from underneath with the engine lowered after removing the engine mount.Remove the alternator from the wheel well with the inside cover removed. Go to Advance Auto and get the loaner ,$119.00 deposit, crank balencer removal and installation tool. This is refunded upon return. Line up
the timing marks with a straight edge I was off one tooth on the right bank. So now for the third time I kept getting P0017 after the last install. This is caused by cams not in the proper alignment. This was told to me by the Chevrolet dealer. So the Cloyes video is misleading as they state you only have to have the cam tool if you are removing the phaser.
The cams are spring loaded and have be held in the proper position. So I now have ordered
the Kent-Moore EN-48383 camshaft retaining tool. The number is for certain years so you will have check on the proper one for your application.
Is it necessary to remove the starter and flywheel to turn the engine?
Not at all
Does this engine come out by lifting or dropping it through bottom?
Through the bottom, the whole front subframe drops.
How far down can you drop it without undoing the ac and electric wires
I have a 2013 impala and get a poo14 when driving slow I hear metal scraping at the rotation of the tire once up to speed, sound basically goes away. Not the breaks.
that sounds like wheel bearings/ hubs if it is a scraping sound, or possibly cv half axle if it is more click-ey than scrape-ey and gets noticeably better or worse when turning.
@@GeorgeKistler will get it checked out asap. Thank you
Its easier to just take the motor out that why you can lineup the timing Mark's perfect
Great video. However once you get used to it the engine drops out in 1hr
I've done these and it is soo much easier with the engine removed.
I'm sure it is with a guy with a lift and a freon recovery system.
Really good video. Thank you. Was that crank bolt a right hand thread, or left hand? Since you said you had to use a 2 foot breaker bar on it, I thought I'd be better to ask first. Again, thanks for a very clear & descriptive video. Of course, I gave you a "thumbs up!".
Standard righty tighty-lefty loosey - Good luck and thanks for the like!
@@GeorgeKistler Thanks pal!
Buenos días este tipo de motor es igual la postura de de la cadena tiempo de la zusuki modelo 2008 6 silindro XL7
Watch when you have to slap that front cover on and your getting rtv everywhere lol!!!!!
Was your Acadia AWD? What codes and symptoms were you having?
George, I didn't read all the comments so excuse me if others have covered these points. Please tell me what miles the P008 code was set? I'd also like to know if the shop estimates $2,000 to $2,500 included any head work or did they exclude that? Did this chain jump tooth on you at start up?
The ECM sets the P008 out of time code because the chain slips on the sprockets. Slip one tooth and the valves are bent and you need heads. The design of this engine might only damage one head, but a lot if not most will damage both. The experts always talk about interference engines referring to the valve and pistons. I'm not aware of a domestic manuf. making anything but an interference engine so what I'm about to day applies to all domestics.
The point I want to make is this. You nor the video you linked at Cloyes Gear & Products talk about chain tensioners and guides. It's my experience chains and sprockets do not wear. The problem with the chain slipping causing all the damage is where the chains run on stationary nylon guides and tension nylon guides they all wear down. With this engine when all 7 nylon surfaces wear the chain becomes loose and jumps a tooth on the sprocket. This happens a lot at start up. This design is still very forgiving. I've seen the chain wear through the nylon and into the metal of the tensioner before the chain jumped a tooth. Usually, lower engine and all bearings have life left and a lower engine will live to a quarter million miles on synthetic oil, but if a valve damages a piston that may trash the engine.
The solution is to buy a used engine from a reputable company like LKQ or someone you know local and R&R the engine. It's not much more work compared to R&R heads and chain and you won't have the worry of re-timing the engine with one important note. When the used engine arrives that's the time to remove the front cover and install all new guides and tensioners. Used engines with 90,000 to 100,000 miles will have all these nylon guides nearly wore out. A lot of people are driving engines losing performance because of these sloppy worn guides making the chain loose.
Thanks for the comment Rob, The code appeared at 125K. The estimate does not include head work. My understanding of the code is triggered based upon the amount of slop in the chain, caused by stretching, appearing well before it jumps a tooth. The guides on mine were in pretty decent shape when pulled, and most kits come with new tensioners and guides. The new chains when laid flat were about a half inch shorter than the old chains.
I screwed up timing it the first time I attempted the job and bent all the intake valves - kissed the pistons. I pulled the heads and had them redone locally. That also is not a fun job, labor alone was $550 for the head shop, I supplied valves and seals which were another $100, new torque to yield head bolts and OEM head gaskets added another $100.
I agree that the rotating assembly on these engines is probably good for 250k+, but I can't say I would attribute this failure to worn nylon or that I agree with the advice to install a used engine. This is a design issue with the chains themselves, my opinion is that a used motor would bring the risk of unknown other issues and the chance that you are just kicking the can down the road a few thousand miles.
Got it. Your the first I've heard of stretched chains and no sign of wear on nylons at 125K mi. I'm not sure how steel chains are showing wear, but plastic nylon did not? I'll have to watch for that.
I didn't hear in the video the chain didn't jump on you and the heads weren't damaged from that. That timing procedure is tricky as you unfortunately found out. Under those conditions agreed to not replace engine, but when a chain jumps and heads are damaged the used engine is a reliable option with modern engines under the steps I mentioned. Buy from a reputable company or someone you know and swapping an engine can be less work than the work you did.
If your still here did you find one chain loose and one side tight? Which was which? and if the P0008 code is set by sensing a chain is only loose is that done by a sensor for each chain? and where are the sensors?
The rear bank (right) was the worst, but both were stretched. I dont believe that the code is triggered by a specific single sensor, rather the ECM detects it based upon the crank position and the cam position sensors. There are 4 cam sensors that are replaceable each bolts in with a 10mm bolt on the front of the motor. The crank sensor I am not so sure, but i recall reading it is basically so awful you might as well do a full rebuild.
There's at least one video saying the right bank chain is always the loose one. Another video explained the chain metal wasn't hardened enough and an upgraded chain replaced it. I like to know if a dealer confirms those things. An check engine code warning of a loose timing chain is something new in the diagnostics like yo said is likely calculated by the position of the crank and cam sensors. I don't know yet what year that was implemented. Before that all timing chains only had a recommended mileage fro servicing.
So what’s the grey sealant for?
Timing cover - the entire perimeter is sealed with permatex ultra grey
For those that want to remove the bolt on the main pulley I purchased the Bauer electric 1/2 impact wrench (from Harbor Freight) it hat 1050 ft/lbs torque remove the bolt with ease less that $100.
I removed it just using the serpentine belt and wrapping it around the harmonic balancer and up around the upper motor mount bracket. Look on UA-cam for a guy taking pulleys off with just a serpentine belt. Also, I'm a little bit Leary on all the stress you're putting on the engine components by using a big impact on the end of your crankshaft seems to me that's a good way to cause further stress on engine parts.
Do you need to take the engine oil out?
Yes, you must drain the oil. As the water pump is mounted to the timing cover, when you remove it, coolant will go everywhere. Thanks to gravity and the people who designed this marvel, that means to the oil pan. For the longevity of your engine, you do not want to run coolant contaminated oil.
2010 saturn outlook xe has the same engine. Just looked at one today. Had the timing belt replaced at 30,000miles. What? Wow. Hmmmm. New transmission at 80,000. GM motors 3.6 always a concern?
Yes. No one should ever own one. They're a horrible, horrible design.
My 08 equinox just spit this code and it looks like i might be taking a stab at it. Can you link the set you ended up getting for it? This looks like a nightmare but I got quoted $2600
I had major issues with the ebay set it turned out to have a defective tensioner, and after much frustration I had to take it to a shop that replaced everything with acdelco oem parts, if I were to do it again I would get a oem or cloyes set.
Did you have to lock the camshafts in position before removing the chain?
According to the cloyes video, no, but IMHO, It is best to lock them in place using the special plates just to make sure everything stays put.
where to get
Special Plates?
.
freedomracing.com has OE (kent moore) and aftermarket plates... buy the OE ones, the aftermarket ones have too much "play" for my liking.
There are special cam holders. You can find them for around $60.
If you bring up #1 before you start, they shouldn't be needed.
I'm not sure I'm getting the correct thing. Can someone post an Amazon link that would be the correct cam lock plate for an Acadia?
i have a 2011 and the dealer want 5600, but also reccomends changing engine cuz I am at 160,000 miles which brings total to 13,000 dollars does the timing cause electrical issues?
I think the dealer is trying to take you for a ride and would tell them to take that noise elsewhere. $13k on a 2011 GM = mechanically totaled.
Broke timing chain equals ceased engine
I have the similar engine 2010 Camaro V6 dude charging 1400$. Gotta have it done
Were you able to put her back together? Did she turn over? Is she still on the road? I hope all is well Mate.
Yes, it went back together and it ran, however not well. I re-did the job a couple times before turning it over to a shop who ultimately found that there was a defective tensioner in the ebay set (hence my removal of that recommendation). The car has about 30K miles since the repair and is still on the road. Thanks for the comments and for watching!
@@GeorgeKistler This is why you should never use cheap aftermarket parts for "any" internal engine problems. I have a 2012 Buick LaCrosse 3.6L VVT FWD vehicle and I only use AC Delco GM OEM parts. Anything outside of the engine, then if sensible, I will go with aftermarket.
Anyways, sorry you went thru all that mate.
Electrical box can be removed
And the engineers at work say the high feature is such a great engine...I'll continue buying fords and cashing my GM checks lol. Thank you for this video. I'm in your boat I think. Locked up motor in wifes car. Well see how it goes!
Steven Reibeling locked up motor huh?? Doubt you even know where a GM plant is, much less work in 1☝Should have bought a GM... any GM besides a Found On Road Dead👈
Paul D. Rose your out of your mind. GM makes some of the biggest piles of crap vehicles on the road. Just look up the problems. They are every where on a wide range of vehicles. Are fords perfect? No. But I would take one every day of the week over a GM. By the way, I have an 08 Buick Enclave so I know what I’m talking about.
100fredkrueger from the ignorant comment you made, I can tell you know nothing about any auto in general. You just wanna hate on GM because you wanna jump on the banana boat with the rest of the uneducated clowns that probably can't even change their own oil😄😃😜
If you own or leasing an "enclave" you've probably screwed up so much stuff on it because you're not mechanically inclined in any way possible & the question comes to mind... why would you still own it or leasing... which ever be the case & not be rid of it? You ford freaks know nothing & like to lie about crap like this, so you can't be taken seriously😄😃
@@100fredkrueger ford 3.5-3.7 water pump failures. Nuff said
I know this is a few yrs old but does the actuators bolt to the timing cover bc I have a broken bolt inside the solenoid mounting hole
I believe they do mount only to the timing cover. Sorry to hear about the broken bolt, bad times.
@@GeorgeKistler thank you do you remember if there was enough room after removing wires and fuse box to get a right angle drill and bit inside to drill it out
@@gregsarro5839 If it is the front upper one maybe, if it is the rear bank or lower one on the front bank, signs point to no - you are looking at welding a nut onto the broken bolt and hoping for some luck, or the cover has to come off to attack it.
Its the right side intake actuator
So I will need to remove the cover not confident in doing that