I know, I just thought it was kinda funny. I used to (kinda) ride bikes. I think I always put mine at like 70ish. I think they're rated to 65. I know such a rebel.
Spike Kastleman naw broghe some setup benefit from mild camber, think about what happens when you lean into a tight turn. body roll, coil bind, etc. can hurt yer handling especially if the car wasn't meant to be driven hard
Can I just say thank you for making these videos? I've been watching your channel since the beginning of LDC1, and no one I've seen on youtube has been as thorough or knowledgeable as you are. Haggard garage just destroys cars for entertainment, MCM has the sponsorship and money to do whatever they want with the help of their shop friends. I feel like Off Beat is the only channel out there that is a truly competent, grass roots car channel. The amount of time and research you've put into your car shows, and I'm glad to finally see you out drifting. So thank you!
this is interesting to me. I hate it much less now. I always just figured it was completely for "aesthetic" purposes. Now that I understand there is a point to cambering the tits out of vehicles, I can appreciate it to an extent. Well spoken, informative video.
i know and seen you do your own alignment on your car, if you have time you should do a video on how to do alignments on low cars like yours, what tools you use and methods etc.
don't forget acrumen, I put modded knuckles in my car with 0 ish acrumen, and have 0 toe front and rear, 0 rear camber, 6 degrees front camber and stock caster. works mint! I learned a lot from this video, awesome!
Yeah it was using the old logo in the animation though which is why I stopped using it. Then I went back to change it and all the files are corrupt now for whatever reason so basically I have to redo that whole thing to bring it back. Maybe a little weekend project would be to make a new one, how's that sound?
Honestly, being raised around a dirt track my whole life this makes total sense to me. But to be honest, I never thought about it like that for drift cars. I always thought it was meant to "look cool" or some stupid reason like that. But if you look at a lot of dirt track cars especially open wheel and VW class cars it's set up to real extremes like that. This was actually pretty informative, I can't believe I never put it together like that. Guess since asphalt drifting was never something I was into I never put much thought into it before.
One thing I don’t fully understand ( I’ve had some but little real life experience working on real drift cars) but my understanding is you want less grip at the front when on lock so the rear end can catch the slide.
Thanks for the explanation. I kinda feel like it was partially in response to my comment about stretching the tires so it wouldn't rub the front fenders. Good information and it makes sense now. Looking forward to more videos! You've come a long way since i first started watching.
Stretched tires actually also provide another benefit for drift cars other than more fender clearance. When stretched, the tires gain lateral stiffness since the sidewalls are diagonal which makes them not snap as hard into grip and slide easier/smoother to the sides. Edit: fender clearance isn't actually a legit benefit since you can easily run a more narrow rim to fit the tires and still not have any rubbing issues.
Honestly, at the start of the video I saw that negative camber and immediately thought "not another stance moron". Good video, glad to be proven wrong....
Damn dude i used to see your videos when you still had your other 240 then got the other 240 that was shitty af (idk if its not this black one) and then i also saw like your very first time attempting to drift and now i come back and you already got the hang of it and everything! Thats crazy dude but congrats man its very noticeable that all your hard work has been paying off
my c33 has probably negative 5 or 6 degrees of camber and in daily circumstances it isnt a big issue as i am simply not going fast enough on the road to cause any affect on brake performance. in fact it handles better than stock. in fact i could even go with 3 degrees more camber to make my tyres wear evenly and this is in daily conditions. not hating on you or trying to prove you wrong this is just my experiences. cheers yo!
Just a thought. Running very high tyre pressures will cause a tyre to wear more in the middle as the tyre will balloon. Although if your drifting a car with low power you're probably using cheap part worn tyres so tyre wear isn't that big of an issue. Nice vid :)
Hey Adel, could you do another video in regards to the changes you made to your suspension recently? I know you seemed pretty happy with the changes but I didn't quite catch everything you did beyond raising the front end. Thanks so much, and hello from Texas (when you gonna come down???).
another reason why pro cars dial down their PSI so low is tire Hysteria... since rubber is an insulator of heat and temperature is a direct influence of tire pressure... they dial the pressure down because they know the heat they create from the load and friction they generate from the tire will cause the air to expand both quickly and significantly... and since tires are very good insulators, thus being hard to cool down, they factor in how long it will take for the tire to heat up and cool down versus how much time they spend actually in use before they change them... but there could be other factors included too, like lets say tire blankets... you can set them to be at a certain temperature before they even hit the track so the idea of hysteria is practically eliminated... however, I'm not sure about regulations regarding blankets and budget limitations too so that may not even be considered.
You do a great job explaining why competitive drifters run negative camber. However, you actually drift competitively. Whereas, the idiots on the road with excessive camber probably never drift competitively and use their cars as daily drivers. I think that's why there's so much hate toward excessive negative camber.
God this video is fantastic... I will be sure to post this video every time some moron goes "That drift car is stupid because it has such a ridiculous camber"... I love your vids man keep it up :D
jonathan abreu lol wtf were they drunk?! edit: not only do they have a shit ton of camber in the less useful spot, they have none in the spot where it SHOULD be, especially in a FWD. also, it's an accord... no camber lol
Camber doesn't need to be that much, you can run around 3 degrees camber or even less, change the caster forward more and use a trailing knuckle and still have a flatter contact patch through out your whole steering. If I remember, I thought people ran so much camber was for clearance when angle kits started being developed more. Now they move the top hats and extend the arms together to not have that much camber and have more inner clearance now days.
SAI is more important to getting the camber gains you want than Caster, Less SAI and more caster would allow you to run less static camber but still get your camber gains.
lol you should quote some of the comments that criticized you. Theres a lot of hate when it comes to negative camber and its understandable but if you really dont know why its bad when it is and when its not, dont comment. Good job explaining it.
Thanks so much for this video. You couldn't have made it any clearer. I'm just getting to grips with suspension set-ups but haven't yet needed to think about a drift setup. Really interesting stuff
love the vids been subbed for so long, didnt take notice of ur sub count but ANYWAY - should do an update on your suspension, 50mm extended lca's, tie rods, etc
Good video breh!! But you didn't mentioned the akerman which in my opinion is also very important to a drift car!!! Greetings from Colombia awesome series!!!!
2:43 Can you give a more thorough explanation of how caster is effected by suspension geometry? If I understand correctly positive caster (tilting the steering axis rearward) adds negative camber at lock on the outside tire, and positive camber at lock to the inside tire. I believe that aftermarket knuckles (hubs) often give you some adjustment, but I don't understand what you said here about 'false caster trail'. If it is the case that the mounting point of the the hub (the spindle) is forward of the ball joint and the coil-over mount, then it seems to me that would add a totally untenable amount of negative caster. So I must be misunderstanding something....
ZOMG r u still running a stock engine and doing THIS kind of scids? Mad skillz bruh :D Nice vid tho, would like to see more of tech stuff like that, keep up the good work)
This is a great video. Very informative, thanks for posting. Can I ask, how much does it cost in overhead to drift a car like this? Like track fees, tires etc. How do you practice? Do you have to reserve track time or do you have a track near you that you can just go to whenever? I really want to do something like this.
what's up bro,I just wanted to ask a few questions if I may, I have an 2002 acura cl type S, it's my daily Drive and I want to put -camber on it for the look but also want to get the most performance out of my tires and turning ,what degree should i put the front cambers too and what degrees should I put the rear campers too,i want it noticeable with negative camber but also want the most surface space and performance as possible?
+OffBeat Garage very interesting video! Does even front and rear toe adjustments change the behavior of the car in drifting or you dont need to touch it? thanks :D
"The tires are only safely rated to like 50 psi, but you can just go ahead and ignore that"
Tip top advice #pro
I mean he's not wrong... Same goes bikes too...
I know, I just thought it was kinda funny. I used to (kinda) ride bikes. I think I always put mine at like 70ish. I think they're rated to 65. I know such a rebel.
+First name Last name for road tyres 600c wheels like mine generally are rated at 65 psi max... then 700c are rated at 120psi
+First name Last name for mountain bikes, 26ers are rated at 45 psi and 29ers are rated 65 psi
Edgy
now I can tune my cars better in forza
thats pritty much how i set mine up
Forza FTW
Devonte Mitchell lmfaooo exactly what ive been doing and it does work lol
-5 max camber in forza so gl. #RfactorFTW
Brandon C yea bro
Camber for drifting = All good.
Camber on a non-drift car = Ricer crap.
Spike Kastleman preach brother and just because you have camber also does not mean you are a drifter
Spike Kastleman naw broghe some setup benefit from mild camber, think about what happens when you lean into a tight turn. body roll, coil bind, etc. can hurt yer handling especially if the car wasn't meant to be driven hard
TheBikemaster94
Let me correct myself: *Excesive* camber. Lol. My bad!
Thank you for saying that this guys camber isnt even bad but i see niggas with excessive camber on a toyota camry 😂😂😂😂
Spike Kastleman Camber for race cars and track cars is also good for reducing understeer and increasing traction during turn in
Can I just say thank you for making these videos? I've been watching your channel since the beginning of LDC1, and no one I've seen on youtube has been as thorough or knowledgeable as you are. Haggard garage just destroys cars for entertainment, MCM has the sponsorship and money to do whatever they want with the help of their shop friends. I feel like Off Beat is the only channel out there that is a truly competent, grass roots car channel. The amount of time and research you've put into your car shows, and I'm glad to finally see you out drifting. So thank you!
Well you're welcome my man :) glad to be here and making these videos for ya!
Keep making videos like this and you're gonna give engineering explained a run for his money! Very very informative!
this is interesting to me. I hate it much less now. I always just figured it was completely for "aesthetic" purposes. Now that I understand there is a point to cambering the tits out of vehicles, I can appreciate it to an extent. Well spoken, informative video.
F1, DTM and most other touring racing, professional drifting...many race cars have negative camber. Some are even on all four corners.
the reason why I couldn't drift with the Evo in Project cars.. it had too much negative camber on the front. great explanation
i know and seen you do your own alignment on your car, if you have time you should do a video on how to do alignments on low cars like yours, what tools you use and methods etc.
wont be doing 65° plus entry in my daily...challenge accepted sir lol
Atleast he backs it up with facts
OMG ITS YOU!!! I just re discovered you after about 3 years. I remember your og drift builds on that 240 that you got from a panel beater!
don't forget acrumen, I put modded knuckles in my car with 0 ish acrumen, and have 0 toe front and rear, 0 rear camber, 6 degrees front camber and stock caster. works mint! I learned a lot from this video, awesome!
This helped so much in CarX drifting
I wonder if Adam Lz watches your vids ..
great video man, Lots of good knowledge
Thanks :)
It's nice when someone on youtube actually knows what he is saying
I need the old intro, it was just perfect, bring it back for nex vid plz
Yeah it was using the old logo in the animation though which is why I stopped using it. Then I went back to change it and all the files are corrupt now for whatever reason so basically I have to redo that whole thing to bring it back. Maybe a little weekend project would be to make a new one, how's that sound?
Yeah!! Do it! Sound like a great idea!!
Pd: love your videos and all the work you'v done keep it up!!
WiseRiver59 Haha alright, I'll try to make something this weekend then. Thanks for the support
Great, I'm looking forward to it!!!!
And it's imposible not to support this awesome content
Honestly, being raised around a dirt track my whole life this makes total sense to me. But to be honest, I never thought about it like that for drift cars. I always thought it was meant to "look cool" or some stupid reason like that. But if you look at a lot of dirt track cars especially open wheel and VW class cars it's set up to real extremes like that. This was actually pretty informative, I can't believe I never put it together like that. Guess since asphalt drifting was never something I was into I never put much thought into it before.
dude bruh how dare you say im unedumecated on drift camber bruh, you cereally offended me bruh. JK good video man
Hahahah
As a car lover I seriously appreciate your informative video, this is the way UA-cam should be, not combative and juvenile.
One thing I don’t fully understand ( I’ve had some but little real life experience working on real drift cars) but my understanding is you want less grip at the front when on lock so the rear end can catch the slide.
Saw your vid yesterday, tuned my drift rc came back to thank you for sharing your wisdom with us! My car drifts so good!
Thanks for the explanation. I kinda feel like it was partially in response to my comment about stretching the tires so it wouldn't rub the front fenders. Good information and it makes sense now. Looking forward to more videos! You've come a long way since i first started watching.
Stretched tires actually also provide another benefit for drift cars other than more fender clearance. When stretched, the tires gain lateral stiffness since the sidewalls are diagonal which makes them not snap as hard into grip and slide easier/smoother to the sides.
Edit: fender clearance isn't actually a legit benefit since you can easily run a more narrow rim to fit the tires and still not have any rubbing issues.
Honestly, at the start of the video I saw that negative camber and immediately thought "not another stance moron". Good video, glad to be proven wrong....
Centripetal force is tangent to the circle, not away from it. That would be to the side and slightly to the front of the car, not towards the rear
Bro I've watched all you videos from the start and the knowledge that you have is amazing !
dude, another in depth vid. so informative. didn't know you run so little hp in you car either!
Damn dude i used to see your videos when you still had your other 240 then got the other 240 that was shitty af (idk if its not this black one) and then i also saw like your very first time attempting to drift and now i come back and you already got the hang of it and everything! Thats crazy dude but congrats man its very noticeable that all your hard work has been paying off
Lots of knowledge, well explained, made it easy to understand. Hats off
thanks from a master tech and a former autoxer that was very informative and cleared things up for me
Extremely informative video. Knowing nothing about drifting, this was a great primer and explained everything I wanted to know. Thank you for posting
my c33 has probably negative 5 or 6 degrees of camber and in daily circumstances it isnt a big issue as i am simply not going fast enough on the road to cause any affect on brake performance. in fact it handles better than stock. in fact i could even go with 3 degrees more camber to make my tyres wear evenly and this is in daily conditions. not hating on you or trying to prove you wrong this is just my experiences. cheers yo!
Just a thought. Running very high tyre pressures will cause a tyre to wear more in the middle as the tyre will balloon. Although if your drifting a car with low power you're probably using cheap part worn tyres so tyre wear isn't that big of an issue. Nice vid :)
You'd think that would happen but it doesn't. Tire wears out evenly from one side to another. Also I always run brand new tires. Thanks :)
I have an eunos roadster(Miata) 1.6 so I need all the help I can get 😂 bout 85 psi in the rear in the dry.
Hahah there ya go!
I'M 58 Y.O.A. AND WANT TO "THANK YOU" FOR EXPLAINING THOSE ALIGNMENT MEANINGS TO ME. NO ONE OUT HERE IN THE CENTER OF NEBRASKA UNDERSTOOD IT. (LOL)
Hey Adel, could you do another video in regards to the changes you made to your suspension recently? I know you seemed pretty happy with the changes but I didn't quite catch everything you did beyond raising the front end. Thanks so much, and hello from Texas (when you gonna come down???).
The hubs are moved rearwards in wisefab knuckles, not forward.
another reason why pro cars dial down their PSI so low is tire Hysteria... since rubber is an insulator of heat and temperature is a direct influence of tire pressure... they dial the pressure down because they know the heat they create from the load and friction they generate from the tire will cause the air to expand both quickly and significantly... and since tires are very good insulators, thus being hard to cool down, they factor in how long it will take for the tire to heat up and cool down versus how much time they spend actually in use before they change them... but there could be other factors included too, like lets say tire blankets... you can set them to be at a certain temperature before they even hit the track so the idea of hysteria is practically eliminated... however, I'm not sure about regulations regarding blankets and budget limitations too so that may not even be considered.
I didnt think i would learn anytjing going in but i did! Thanks!
a justification for what i usually think is nutty camber. thanks for the vid!
You do a great job explaining why competitive drifters run negative camber. However, you actually drift competitively. Whereas, the idiots on the road with excessive camber probably never drift competitively and use their cars as daily drivers. I think that's why there's so much hate toward excessive negative camber.
Straight to the point!! Probadly the most giving video I've ever seen on YT.
Keep it up bro! Subbed and liked.
God this video is fantastic... I will be sure to post this video every time some moron goes "That drift car is stupid because it has such a ridiculous camber"... I love your vids man keep it up :D
More honda's drivers should watch this kind of videos. I've seen so many Accords running 0 deg on front and like -15deg on rear...
jonathan abreu lol wtf were they drunk?!
edit: not only do they have a shit ton of camber in the less useful spot, they have none in the spot where it SHOULD be, especially in a FWD. also, it's an accord... no camber lol
Camber doesn't need to be that much, you can run around 3 degrees camber or even less, change the caster forward more and use a trailing knuckle and still have a flatter contact patch through out your whole steering. If I remember, I thought people ran so much camber was for clearance when angle kits started being developed more. Now they move the top hats and extend the arms together to not have that much camber and have more inner clearance now days.
clicked thinking maybe id learn a few things and i did. good shit man.
Ive been watching alot of your videos lately and i gotta say they are really informative! keep up the good work!!
Bro. Amazing vid, really good explanation of everything. Keep up the good work.
That flick at 3:50, that's called a scandinavian flick my friend. ;)
had no idea you gain positive camber under lock, makes a lot of sense tho
SAI is more important to getting the camber gains you want than Caster, Less SAI and more caster would allow you to run less static camber but still get your camber gains.
Very informative, I never thought of the camber change due to caster
lol you should quote some of the comments that criticized you. Theres a lot of hate when it comes to negative camber and its understandable but if you really dont know why its bad when it is and when its not, dont comment. Good job explaining it.
Lol yeah I know what you mean, hence why I made the video. And no need to call them out, the video will speak for itself haha. Thanks :)
Thanks so much for this video. You couldn't have made it any clearer. I'm just getting to grips with suspension set-ups but haven't yet needed to think about a drift setup. Really interesting stuff
love the vids been subbed for so long, didnt take notice of ur sub count but ANYWAY - should do an update on your suspension, 50mm extended lca's, tie rods, etc
This is your best video so far. Excellent work. Good safety tip for the oblivious ones! :D
Great video. Really helped me (amateur drifter) to help better understand how to setup my car.
So, get wisefab knuckles...problem solved.
Awesome video man. I also run the same measurement tyres on my BMW (Non Drift Car). Great to see how far both you and you car have come :)
well done man, you have come a long way keep it up
Loving the videos cant wait to see you break 100.000 subs keep it going.
nice vid man, keep them up
Informative AF! I learned a lot. Thanks bro. 👍🏾
Learned a lot out of this video, great job explaining everything
I finally have 10 degrees of camber and Iove it.
Dude, you're ace! Really enjoyed your video, keep it up!
Increasing tire pressure increases sprung weight.
You explained it very good and now I know what you're doing. Thanks so much
nicely explained. Another way to do it is just use a vehicle with double wishbone on the front.
Good video breh!! But you didn't mentioned the akerman which in my opinion is also very important to a drift car!!! Greetings from Colombia awesome series!!!!
This video is just to cover camber on drift cars. Ackerman has to do with toe and so that would be in a separate video. Thanks :)
you just helped my drift tunes on forza sooo much, thank you hahaha
great video dude, You've helped me solve some doubts.
greetings from Mexico...
are u gonna boost ur car? i think u should run like 300 thats a fun number to drive :)
Yessir, will end up being between 300-350HP when done :)
u gonna keep the ka?
Yuss
Can't wait to see your engine build videos.
Davis Campbell Me too haha
2:43 Can you give a more thorough explanation of how caster is effected by suspension geometry? If I understand correctly positive caster (tilting the steering axis rearward) adds negative camber at lock on the outside tire, and positive camber at lock to the inside tire. I believe that aftermarket knuckles (hubs) often give you some adjustment, but I don't understand what you said here about 'false caster trail'. If it is the case that the mounting point of the the hub (the spindle) is forward of the ball joint and the coil-over mount, then it seems to me that would add a totally untenable amount of negative caster. So I must be misunderstanding something....
not gunna lie , learned a lot there! Thanks .
You're gonna drift at a slow speed with this set up.
first line he says "edjacated"edit: also not trolling I just thought it was funny. Nice to see someone that knows what they are talking about
An educated video presented by an educated person, who surprisingly enough, doesn't have dreads or smell of billy mav and spilt bong water
Very informative video. good job dude
ZOMG r u still running a stock engine and doing THIS kind of scids? Mad skillz bruh :D
Nice vid tho, would like to see more of tech stuff like that, keep up the good work)
and this is a reason why we have double wishbone suspension
Thx for the explanation. It was very thorough and informative.
Overall decent advice. But centrifugal force is not 90 deg of the momentum. It's parallel.
This is a great video. Very informative, thanks for posting. Can I ask, how much does it cost in overhead to drift a car like this? Like track fees, tires etc. How do you practice? Do you have to reserve track time or do you have a track near you that you can just go to whenever? I really want to do something like this.
Time to max out the chamber and psi on my rear tires so I can slide my 60 hp miata
Really informative. Love your videos keep it up!
Learn something new everyday! :)
Well said, keep up the good work.
this is some awesome knawledge
yoooo you live in. LA? as soon as I'm done with my ls Swap in my Vert we gotta tear it up
This saved me hours of research.. Thanks!
It all makes soo much sense too
+Ruben Diaz Glad to help :)
Awesome video and thanks for sharing your tips
I seriously didn't know that, but what about the people who put it on their front wheel drive Hondas?
Style.
Tony Flamingo well that's for track, if you don't use it for track or if it's excessive then it's horrible and should be fixed or burned.
Hey man, I saw you at FD irwindale nice 240
Great info - I just learned something today thanks ! Now I understand 👍👍
Im just looking to try some other settings on my 180
what's up bro,I just wanted to ask a few questions if I may, I have an 2002 acura cl type S, it's my daily Drive and I want to put -camber on it for the look but also want to get the most performance out of my tires and turning ,what degree should i put the front cambers too and what degrees should I put the rear campers too,i want it noticeable with negative camber but also want the most surface space and performance as possible?
why do cars come with positve camber from the factory?
+OffBeat Garage
very interesting video!
Does even front and rear toe adjustments change the behavior of the car in drifting or you dont need to touch it?
thanks :D
Ur a smart dude
Now do a video on tire stretch