I have specialized in automotive suspension and alignment for almost 40 years. Here is what actually happened. NOTHING. Look at your total toe measurements on both printouts. They are the same. This is because all the technician did was make the first print with the steering wheel steered slightly left and then straightened the steering wheel and take second print. You were taken advantage of and that’s how it was done.
How do you know the steering wheel is straight or off. Maybe the toe is really out on one side. Be careful telling people this stuff. The shop needs to mark up parts to keep the lights on.
I'm a ASE Master technician 52 years all phases of repair on any unit but prefer collision work anyway retired now and went through same bull. My back was sore so I went for a oil change soon as they get the car in the service tech shows me a trans dip stick and power steering cap with dirty fluid on them.said I need a trans flush and steering flush.I asked him 3 times sure that's from my car. Yes it is he says. My car is a 2008 hhr. Hhr has no trans dipstick and electric power steering. I said show me where they go so I could see myself.after 10 minutes fumbling around they couldnt.Guess who got a free oil change and filter. Lmao
I guess they tried the wrong guy.. I love when people assume you're stupid and know nothing when you're getting a car serviced. I love to play along and see how far they try to get before I reveal my credentials. LOL 😆
@@Justforfun-ek7et The sad part is that people will take advantage of other people because most people cannot know everything about their vehicle (or any device, appliance, etc).
As a Technician for 15 years I hate that my industry is pretty well known for being shady. I constantly strive to recommend and perform work that is needed and not recommend anything to any customer that I would not recommend to my own mother. Just to clarify I love my mother
I agree bro. But that’s why I got into it so I don’t have to trust someone else and I can be honest and actually help people.keep doing good the world needs good people.
I got fired from a local dealership because I wouldn't do that to the customers. They wanted me to for a elderly lady to get new tires because hers need to be changed soon Maybe about 20k miles left in them. And I told her you need to be thinking about changing them soon not today but they are getting close and my boss was mad because I didn't tell her it needed to be done that day. I'm happy I got fired I personally can't lie to someones face like that and sleep at night
I'm the same way. Luckily the boss doesn't push like that. Instead we find that being honest like that, they come back to us for the work when it's ready.
Look carefully at the first and second report. They had your steering wheel off center just enough to get the tire to flash red "out of spec" on the machine. When you OK'd the $99 alignment, they just turned the steering wheel a smidge until everything showed green and printed the report. Your left toe and steer ahead also changed by .04 degrees which proves they never put a wrench on the tie rod to adjust your alignment. Total rip off. Make 'em famous. (FYI I'm a former ASE certified automotive technician)
Okay this repeat observation of turning the steering wheel on that is starting to get annoying this is like the 10th person to explain it and fold the tail in the comments
(This has happened since my last comment) I was the new guy at a car dealership. MY first job there was just an oil change on a car with 41k miles on it. This model car was known to have valve cover leaks. So I checked for that, specifically, along with a small list of other known problems, as well as regular safety checks. Brought the paperwork back to the service advisor and the shop manager was there, looked at my paperwork, and flatly said 'It needs valve cover gaskets, they're leaking on this car.' I told him that I knew they were an issue on this car, but they were spotlessly clean. He cussed me and said he would show because I was 'Obviously incompetent'. He looked. He literally said "It does not matter. Write it up as leaking." I refused and was fired on the spot. They wrote it up and gave a report. Little did they know it was a state inspection vehicle. The shop got a $20,000 fine for it. I was caught up in it as I had done the work on it BUT I had taken a pic of my finished inspection report. Odd that the report number that I had did not match the inspection report THEY had. They had re-written the report onto a new service order. Hey! Sometimes you get caught scamming someone that actually writes the rules.....
@@davidbeckenbaugh9598 we need to know what cars have common oil leak problem so we get the factory to fix free and add 10 year extra in case they use the same trash seals.
I work with this exact alignment system everyday at work. They put the car on the alignment rack and slightly steered the wheel to the left indicated by the steer ahead measurement -0.06, this will cause the toe to increase on the left wheel and decrease on the right. Then once you approved the repair, they steered the wheel back to the center indicated by the steer ahead moving closer to zero just enough to get both toe reading in spec. You can see that the left wheel toe reading decreased and the right increased in the same amount. I work in this field and this is really disappointing to see. Makes us all look like crooks.
The funny part is that this is exactly what happened, you can clearly read it directly from before and after prints. Yet the author gave us a geometry class to conclude that they hit it with a hammer to align something in gearbox, which has nothing to do with toe. This video is every kind of wrong, both from mechanics' and author's side.
The "free tire upgrade" is something to be careful of, here's why; tires have date codes of when they were made. Tires age with time as well as with miles and so when you purchase new tires, you want to make sure to ask that the tires date code is no more that 6 months old from date of your purchase. Shops are aware of this and may offer "free tire upgrade" to get rid of "NOS" new old stock in their inventory. Discount tires will not work on tires that have a date code older than 10 years. I have seen NOS tires that were 7 years old and still never used; these tires can sit in warehouse for years and then be purchased cheap to sell. Buyer be ware. Thanks Pete for the great advise, I appreciate it!
While I’m not disagreeing that you got scammed, because I believe you did. Just not the way you think. My first disagreement is with your argument that you can’t adjust 0.04 degrees. I do alignments all the time and I spend the time to always get them within 0.01 degrees on either side, it’s pretty easy to do. Unfortunately I can tell from your before and after sheets that all they did was turned the steering wheel a tiny amount. Your alignment was fine and didn’t need to be adjusted. Don’t go back to those scammers. I think it’s good to be skeptical and ask questions, but there are good shops out there, I firmly believe the one I work at is honest, otherwise I wouldn’t work for them.
I’m in the same boat . I do alignments all the time in just a few minutes. But you were ripped off. They just spun the steering wheel like 1/32 of a turn
I also have disagreement with the 4 mins of work problem. If they already have it on the rack and it is a small adjustment, then 4 mins is realistic too. No mechanic that gets flat rate is going to ever take .1 for an alignment. Just because I can do the job in 4 mins doesn't mean that everybody can. They clearly did just turn the wheel here or push on the tire enough to turn them in, but he isn't getting the clear picture on what an alignment is either. I often make fine tuned adjustments on alignments too. I however aim for a lot closer to perfect as opposed to good enough lol.
Yup. Total toe and steer ahead angle says it all. The only thing they did is turn the steering wheel a little bit. They didn't adjust anything underneath the car.
I would think with larger tires and wheels the more the toe or other aspect of the alignment would be of greater affect on the edges of the tire and ware. Down to the 0.01. I know that some factory alignments for some large truck manufactures are waaaay off. But less than what Pete was talking about and the tires seem to get wore even quicker. But that’s also a different application maybe. With heavier weights per axel.
The "total toe" stayed exactly the same at 0.19, before and after. Yes, the right toe went down, but the left went up by the same margin. So to get the "after" to within spec, all that was done was to turn the steering wheel ever so slightly left.
1. I can adjust it .01 at a time. 2. I can do most toe and go alignments in 7 minutes. A toe set is super fast. 3. They did rip you off. Total toe didn't change. They just turned the wheel slightly and took a printout.
This right here. Done 1,000s of alignments in my career. I wouldn't have told him he needed an alignment. That's about the only thing I agree with in this vid, though.
Actually if you look at your spec on the left wheel what they did was even simpler. While the right toe-in decreased by .04" the left toe-in increased by .04" to .07". They didn't hit just that wheel rim with a hammer, they just nudged the steering to the left.
Toe before was .03 and 0.16. Total toe was .19. After toe was .07 and .12 total was still .19. They turned wheel left printed before the turned little to right and printed after.
I'm ASE certified and worked in garages for 15yrs. Every garage I worked for we had to always treat the customers the right way. Had to fix things that scam garages had done. A lot of times never charged customer for it. But I always brought it to their attention before anything was done. I treated my customers the way I would want to be treated. And over a 15yr period I saw and heard way to many horror stories about how customers had been treated at scam shops. Keep educating people. Knowledge is power. God Bless
My sister had a certified pre-owned Acura MDX which included "free" oil changes for as long as they own the vehicle. They took their car in to get an oil change and when it was done the dealership called them and said "we performed the oil change but your back brakes are basically gone. We highly recommend having them serviced". My sister called me because I know a lot about cars and I told her to tell the dealership thank you but you'll pass. I call the local auto parts store and had them put a set of rear pads on the counter for her to pick up and I would just swap them out which takes minutes. When they went to pick up the car the dealership told them that they would be liable for an accident by releasing a car without operating brakes so they needed to do the work. My sister called me again to tell me this, and I told her to tell them that she'll call the police if they don't give her the keys to her car. So they did, and my sister picked up the set of pads from the auto parts store and stopped by my house for me to put them in. I pulled off a rear tire, and could easily see that the pads were basically like new, and they were being scammed. I took a picture of the existing brake pads next to a brand new pad that we had in the box and you could barely tell the difference. I bothered to drive to the dealership and in the customer waiting area had a loud conversation (with 10 + customers listening in) with the service manager letting him know that customers don't appreciate being scammed like this. They denied the whole thing.
As a certified licensed interprovincial automotive, light trucks, truck and trailer, HDET in Canada with over 45 years in the trade 20 as a alignment specialist, I say that any time you go for an alignment, insist on a before AND after print out of the suspension settings.
You overlooked a HUGE detail. You might want to pin this comment. :D Look at the total toe before and after. Notice it didn't change? That means that NO ADJUSTMENTS WERE MADE. Let me explain. After watching your whole video and considering the specific details of this case, here's what happened. The tech purposefully set the steering wheel to one side slightly to cause one of (or both if they would have went a little farther) of the toe readings to go red. They made the printout. Once you approved the alignment, they simply centered the steering wheel which centered the toe, which made the toe go green BECAUSE IN THIS CASE, IT DIDN'T NEED AN ALIGNMENT and then called you 4 minutes later and said it was done. They were able to call you 4 minutes later BECUASE NO ADJUSMENTS WERE MADE, they simply centered the wheel and made an "after" printout. Yes, this was an absolute ripoff, fraud, scam in this case. THEY MADE NO ADJUSTMENTS, with a hammer or otherwise. BTW, that is not a thing AT ALL to hit something with a hammer and make something move. I have 25 years auto mechanic experience and have done hundreds of alignments. This is 100% what happened. I'm pretty shocked that they gave you the evidence that proves they made ZERO adjustments. This by all rights should have been a FREE check, since they offer that. In fairness, very very few vehicles on the road would need NO adjustments, that is very rare. In this case, none were needed, and none were done, and you should have been given the free check 100%. Side note, it is 100% possible to move the toe 0.04 degrees. It happens every day. I could easily move something. 0.01 degrees. Also, it is a very legitimate thing to offer an alignment to "protect your new purchase" People are going to be scrutinizing the tires, the mileage they get out of them, the wear, any noise they may make if they wear odd. Doing an alignment will help your cause as a customer if you do have any issues, because you give the tires a best case scenario by doing an alignment, and that now cannot be used by the shop or the manufacturer as an excuse for any issues that arise. Don't fault a shop for wanting to do an alignment when new tires are put on. In this case, sure, fault them, you got ripped off 100%.
He probably just leaned on the car or something else minor but you're right, it didn't need and adjustment. Whether or not he was ripped off depends on the labor rate in his area. I California that's probably fair for setting up the machine. In Oklahoma he'd be screwed out of 50 bucks maybe because I'm thinking the labor rate there is about half what it is in CA just to pick numbers that are close.
@@dwaynestomp5462 you missed a detail. It was supposed to be a free check if it didn't need any adjustments. They faked it being out of spec in order to charge him, and did literally nothing. That is a rip off and honestly, theft
I love your analogy. I have specialized in collision and modified suspension alignment for more than forty years. I did reply similar to you but not nearly in as much detail. I learned on a bubble gage in the late 70s as we didn't have computer alignment then. You actually had to understand the angles (caster, camber, toe and steering axis inclination). Now days, many techs only know that green is good and red is bad and many can't understand why it pulls right with positive cross caster when everything is green.
As an alignment tech I can tell you that you can move the number by that much just by putting your hand on the wheel with about 3 lbs of pressure. Note total tow was in spec it's steer ahead that is out of spec, that means that the steering wheel was not centered. He is correct it didn't need an alignment.
@@seanwolford5186 The shop tech was not using easy toe. If the steering wheel is not centered before you start the alignment machine should have you center it before you adjust the toe. If you use the machines functions, it works as long as the machine is in calibration.
As a mechanic who does alignments, I call potholes "job security" lol joking, but at the shop were I work we are as honest as we can possibly be. If we are in the wrong for something, we admit to it and learn what we did wrong and how we can prevent that from happening again. Also, when we do a job that wasn't done right we happily refund the money and learn from out mistakes
I'm currently a tech for a local tire and mechanic shop. I'm so glad that the boss is so laid back and he doesn't push the customers to do unnecessary things to their customers cars. I did however get fired from Firestone because I refused to recommend unnecessary services to the customer's cars. I've been a tech for 14 years and yes I've worked in a few shady shops in my career but I walked out on them because I refused to play along with their shady acts. Only time I really recommend services on customers cars is unless they're really necessary. I'm also the kind of guy that allows the customers to walk inside the shop and I happily show the customer's what their cars really needs done.
If you look closely at the toe before and after you can see that all they did was turn the steering wheel to the right a tad. The original .03 on the left turned to .07 which is .04 degrees to the right. Same with the right side. Started at .16 and ended up at .12 which is .04 degrees. They literally moved the steering wheel right by .04 degrees. The total toe did not change. The total toe would've changed if they had adjusted one side. The chalk probably was there from the factory. Most factories mark certain parts they've tightened so they don't spend time tightening the same thing twice. I have been an alignment tech and I can tell you that I am a perfectionist and it usually took me a good hour to perform a perfect four wheel alignment and I could get each wheel spot on to +-0.1 degrees
Where do i go for a someone to rotate and change a tire i got ripped off at my subaru dealer where i bought a new subaru and at 14,000 miles said i needed new tires and a wheel alinment. Im in a $2,000.00service plan. So had to go along tires looked good to me . And now my new tires are always needing air
I am a master certified technician. I have aligned thousands of cars. Your alignment was not adjusted. Not at all. Look at the left side toe before and after. Do you see that the left side is also moved .004 to the right? All the "technician" did was bump the steering to the right. This moved both tires to the right bringing them both into what the machine thinks is aligned. When you see the numbers in green that indicates the steering is within the manufacturers specifications. Red indicates they are outside of those specifications. The alignment technician could have made an adjustment of .004 degrees if he had wanted to, it IS possible. But he didn't he just bumped the tire to the right moving the steering to the right and took a snapshot. Most of the so called alignment technicians have no real idea of what they are doing. They simply turn wrenches until the numbers are green. If you actually gave they a test asking them to describe what, Caster, Camber and Toe are referring to and how they affect tire wear and vehicle steering, they would fail miserably.
I went to a dealership to get my inspection sticker and the guy said that my headlight was out but they could change it for $30. I was like "funny, it was working this morning. Well, I have a new headlight at home so I'll just take it home, replace the bulb, and bring it right back." I popped the hood and found that the headlight wire had just been removed and tucked up behind my battery.
I'm a female. I never sit in the waiting room. I stand outside acting like I'm on the phone, while I'm watching every move they make. Because 1 time I went for a radiator flush. Never happened. They lied to my face.
I owned an alternator/starter rebuild shop for 15 years and most of my customers were repeats as we gave the parts back to the customers afterwards and did the tests in front of them. If we needed lest parts to repair the unit I would drop the quoted price to reflect it. We also have various levels of the repairs too. I almost always replaced the brushes and bearings as part of the costs. Honesty was a great selling tool. I had customers come from as far as 75-80 miles away because they knew I wouldn’t screw the over.
25 years ago I owned a Mercedes. On that car I had free services up to 100 000km* (*of course without consumables and wearables like oil, brakes and so on). At 50 000km they changed a wheel bearing without notifying me in advance. I asked for the old bearing and they told that had allready gone into the trash, but then they tried to tell me that it was so bad that it would have fallen appart in the next few km and they had to chenge it for safety reasons...yeah...no, not really...I had no problems up to that point with noises or whatsoever with this bearing. So I told them; no contract, no old defective bearing, well, that means no money. I gave them the choice of chenging it back to the old one but they decided just to leave the new one in. At the end they didn't got me, but if they get just every second custommer that is to much.. Then the next free oil change on that car: I off course went to anotheer Mercedes dealer. I left the car and went away. 5 minutes later they called. He told me i needed new brakes all around. Price (25 years ago) over 1400$. I was a bit surprised and asked why exactly they have to be changed, so he explained me that the pads are completely worn down and the rotors are at the manufacturers minimal spec. Hmmm, I was more than surpreised so I asked him to explain me how this can be...because one week before, I changed from summer too winter tires and while doing that I looked at the pads. They where at around 70% in the front, 80% at the back, so how can it be that these are worn down within a week??? He didn't expect that I knew how worn the pads where, but then he started with well the pads are ok, but the rotors are (now) below the minimum...and normaly we need to do both together...and for most customers it doesn't makes sense to have the car in for service and then come back in one or twotausend km to change the brakes...so we normaly do it for the coinvenience of the customer. I then told him to just leave my brakes alone and do the oil change and that's it. But he wasn't finished yet. He then started on the security line...look, if you drive and in two or three weeks you kill a child becaus your brakes are faulty you would regret not to have done the brakes today, wouldn't you...now I was really surprised, or should I say pissed off? After I had swallowed that he wanted to feel me guilty not spending that money, I just told him to put on these wheels and leve my car alone. I'd be there in 5 minutes and pick it up and have somebody else do the work on my car including the oil chenge. He then finally agreed to just do the oil change, I went home and drove this pads and rotors for another 40000km (in the swiss alps, what in combination with an automatic transmision quite hard to brakes is) and changed them then for not even 400$ and the rotors where still a hair over the manufacturers minimum spec. Since then I allways do everything I can myself. There it used to have great mechanics around, unfortunately nowadays the good ones who did a great job for a decent amount of money are probably all getting old and retire...so at least my experiences
I used to buy my tires from a Firestone store. It would tick me off that I would sit in the waiting area for nearly two hours before they would come out with a list of everything they found wrong with the car, and haven’t even started to change the tires. Finally I just started buying the tires only and take them to a local gas’s station that had them put on in less than thirty minutes and charged me a fraction of the cost at Firestone with out pushing valve stems and all that other crap. I appreciate videos like this. Keep up the good work.
I always put correction marker on nuts and threads which are needed to be adjusted before I leave the car for any kind of work catches them every time,but photograph some of the marks prior to taking it in .
That was done on a Hunter alignment machine, which I'm very familiar with. What I noticed was the "total toe" never changed @ .19. The L side was .07 and the R was .16 originally. The spec was .10 on each side for a total of .20. The only thing that would have happened if they did nothing was maybe have the steering wheel off-center on a straight road. You can clearly seen the steer ahead is off in the before measurement. All the tech did was move the steering wheel slightly to the right and "VOILA"! It's in spec!😆
Worked at Tire America for 3 years in management. This is super common. All that is done is a slight turn of the steering wheel. If you notice on the after spec, the toe changed on the left wheel by the exact amount that the right was repaired. The wheel was simply moved back. This was a big problem at our shop. I tried to get several people fired for pulling this stunt. Finally got one guy fired and immediately another store hired him. Can't win. Also, to screw with camber or caster all you have to do is loosen the alignment head from the rim enough to get what you need. Save that as the before. Put it back, bam alignment is done. I have not had a vehicle aligned on any car I have owned in 25 years because I know I am most likely going to get ripped off.
The obvious item to check for a poor wheel alignment would be the old tires! Inner or outer tread wear CAN be a sign on toe in, or out alignment. Fact, if the old tires are wearing evenly across the entire tread width, there is VERY likely no issues with the alignment. Great video.
Did alignments for gm dealer for 25yrs if your lucky at tire shops they will set toe and tracking and center steering wheel usually they do nothing they don't want your tires to last they sell tires if tires wear out quickly they have insurance to cover replacement they win either way
Not what happened. Left went from 0.03 to 0.07 (+0.04) and right went from 0.16 to 0.12 (-0.04). What actually happened is much simpler than a hammer: slightly turn the steering wheel from true center and print the before spec, then center the steering wheel and print the after spec. They did literally nothing, which is why total toe didn't change, and why steer ahead did change.
I'm glad for my dad's wisdom. He always told me unless you saw unusual wear on the tires, don't buy into an alignment. He had a work vehicle that needed an an alignment one time, so he showed me what to look for. Valuable lesson...
Exactly. Unless they can show you unusual or excessive wear before removing the tires, you’re better off not getting one. I was actually given a “free” alignment once from a shop I thought I could trust. The steering wheel was crooked when I drove away. It took the tech 2 tries to get it back to where it was when I brought it in. Needless to say, I didn’t pay for the alignment nor ever return.
If you knew how to read alignments, which I don't expect the average car owner to do, you will see that total toe did not change. They just turned the steering wheel to move the tires 0.04 degrees. That is why left toe and steer ahead also changed 0.04 degrees. You were scammed and you have it in writing. I would be back to that shop and get a refund on the whole bill.
I'm an ASE certified tech,brother all they did was turn the steering wheel to make it look "off",then nudged back to get it back in spec,witnessed many times.
Completely Correct I purchased my 4 new tires recently from Costco from the beginning the explained we do not do alignments!! I said ok I’ll take it to my shop new Michelin tires
We had a minor recall on my wife's Minivan, and we took it back to the dealership where we bought it. When we went to pick it up, they said the brake pads were unsafe to drive with less than 10% of the pads left and would need rotors also. It would be a total of $800. I phoned my usual mechanic of twenty years. He checked his records and told me he had done a brake job on my wife's minivan two months prior. I declined their offer, then they said they couldn't legally let the vehicle out of the shop in that unsafe condition or they would be liable. Another call to my lawyer and a few words from him, and I was on my way to my guy's shop. He checked and the pads were almost new. Not only did they lose a customer, but also my company's fleet sales.
I had a friend who went through a similar bs, the VW dealership refused to let him have his car back because his safety check was expired, so he just got in his car & drove off!
I've done alignments 15 years. I've seen this at Goodyear. The before measurements the steering wheel was turned to the left, then straightened for the current measurements. No alignment was done, the machine was manipulated to make it look like an alignment was done.
Sorry to say there are thousands of shops and you can't keep the bags tech out of the industry. But I work for Dunn tire and if you think the alignment wasn't done then call corporate and they can pull video for your alignment and check to see if it was done. Every bay has a camera. I've seen techs fired for not doing a service that they said they did. Dunn Tire doesn't stand for it.
Shops that i worked at doing wheel alignments, when its barely requiring adjustment we would just do those minor adjustments for free. Its not that serious. Its better to build relationships with customers to have them for long run than to do quick scams like that.
I was working in a dealership on the lube rack when the boss told me to do their standard 60,000 mile check. I fond nothing needing any immediate attention. I found some VERY slight seepage on the rear differential. That was it. I noted the slight seepage and said "Does not need immediate attention" giving the owner the option if they wanted to keep it immaculately clean. The boss read my report and came storming out before I got it off the rack. Of COURSE there was something wrong, there ALWAYS is" he was saying. "These engines are noted for intake manifold gaskets leaking so it needs an intake manifold gasket!". "No. to is not leaking at this time". He sneered and looked so he could prove me wrong. He could not find a leak. "Then it needs an accessory belt tensioner". He checked that, it was fine. "OK, then, we have to get him to go for the seal on the rear pinion". My report said it was not necessary AT THIS TIME which means it might change in the future. Boss grabs my written report and tells me he will 'fix' my report..... and turns around to find the customer has walked up behind him. Well, that did not end up well and I was looking for a job the next day........... I considered it worth it.
I noticed that your car was .012" on the right side after the alignment (vs .016"), but was .007" afterwards on the left, when it was .003" before, which seems an awful lot like they literally just turned the steering wheel a hair, or re-zeroed the measuring pads and retook the alignment measures to get the right numbers.
This is such a shame; it is for this reason that I rarely ever leave my car anywhere. I wait and watch. I took my daughter and her car to a Jiffy Lube for a state inspection - it was a ‘teaching moment’ where I wanted her to understand the process. A few minutes later, someone comes to us with an air filter in hand. He proceeds to ‘suggest’ that we might want to replace it. I immediately recognized the filter as the one I had replaced 2 days earlier - EXCEPT that it had a sprinkling of what I knew was dirt from the ground (right alongside their building)! I took hold of the filter, examined it, turned it over, tapped it on the ground to remove the loose dirt, all the while telling him that this was not a part of a state inspection and that I had replaced this filter 2 days ago. I then asked if he had removed it properly or if he forced the box open as I walked out to the car and replaced it myself while chiding him for removing it improperly and intentionally throwing dirt on it and trying to sell me something I didn’t need. I didn’t curse or yell (I wanted to), but I did say ‘you should be ashamed of yourself for disparaging your reputation in such a way - just to sell a $20 air filter’! I doubt that your parents brought you up to lie to people - I know mine didn’t - nor did I raise my children that way. And today, of all days, I brought my daughter here to get acquainted with your shop… He sheepishly stood and listened to my rant - then, just as sheepishly, apologized. They finished the inspection - and, no-charged me. It turned into much more of a teaching moment for my daughter than either of us expected.
I work at a tire shop and a customer was missing a lug nut. I gave them new for FREE ! Didn’t want anything for just told them they missing one and I replaced it. They were so grateful! So you can get things for free. 😊
It doesn't matter how much someone charges if it's an honest. I fix computers and most of the time I know the problem before I get to where I'm going and its usually simple.. The minimum I charge is $150 and I do the job within 15 minutes. If its honest you pay for the knowledge, not how easy or how hard a job is.
I'm OCD enough about my tires that if I select a certain tire and they do a substitution without communicating/checking with me first I'm ornery enough that unless it's a significant and obvious upgrade that I like and am happy about I'm gonna tell them to kick rocks, put my old tires back on and cancel the sale. I'll go elswhere! Don't pull that shit on me...
Same here if I ask for a specific Tire for whatever reason I want that tire not a substitution whether it's an upgrade or not whether it's free or not. For them to do it without communication that's unacceptable. I can understand if they said in advance oh we can upgrade your tires to this for free do you want this done or not then a person could decide to do that or not. But why would they want to do that in the first place unless they don't have the tire that you want. Then you find a place that has the tires you want
I went to Town Fair tire in Seabrook N.H. about the same story. Was shown the alignment was off. Said ok do it. Watched on their security customer cam. men get onto the back of my truck all at same side out near the bumper. 10Min later the drive it out hand me the printout say all set. I looked under the truck nothing had been moved no wrench marks. Went back in told the manager what I found wanted my money back, was told no. Called corporate got my money refunded & They cleaned out the employees. I am a retired mechanic with 43 years under my belt.
Have a low mileage Altima. The dealer was recommending all kinds of servicing. I asked him why they sell vehicles of such poor quality that they need so many repairs.
I've worked on and off for dealerships my whole adult life. The scams from the salesman, the sales managers, to the service manager, to the service writers. The S-+t I used to see, and hear, would make peoples jaws drop. I've even listened to sales guys laughing about how hard they screwed a customer. I've seen service writers fired for literally doing their job. Fired only because they weren't pushing and scamming people into buying things they didn't need. Most dealerships, tire shops, etc have massive overhead, most employees don't make much money. The managers, and GMs are the only ones that make REAL money, and do the least amount of work. Their job is to push everyone else around to make THEM money.
@@cardo1111 The worst one was a Dodge dealership I worked at. The best one was a Honda dealership. They all do it though. It got really bad during the pandemic.
Dude this is stupid. First off. The total toe was 0.19⁰. it STAYED 0.19⁰. The only thing that happened, was after the roll back, caster sweep, and steering wheel level, they stood in front of the car and gently pressed on the driver side tire, from inside to out. It changed BOTH sides 0.04⁰ and that's why the total toe stayed the same at 0.19⁰. You went from -0.03⁰ driver and -0.16 passenger (0.19⁰ total) to -0.07⁰ driver and -0.12⁰ passenger (0.19⁰ total). No hammers were involved. Just a guy leaning against the inside of your driver's side tire. Secondly, your TPMS.... Regular valve stems are free. TPMS kits aren't. And here's another kicker. 205/60R16 sounds like you have a steel wheel. And a One-Piece TPMS sensor is made of aluminum and the sensor is integrated into the valve stem. And it has a rubber grommet on the inside of the valve stem hole and an aluminum crush washer for the outside to help the aluminum nut fasten the sensor perfectly perpendicular to the hole. Unless you have aluminum 16" wheels on your Kia, your steel wheel is holding the heat from your brakes and your aluminum TPMS is dissipating heat 15 times faster than your steel wheel, and the rubber grommet reaches the point of failure from heat fatigue faster than a regular valve stem. You needed those. Not a scam. 60k on a TPMS sensor built on Korean standards? Yeah, it's time to replace. And they can charge whatever they want because you have a right to say no. Yes, they ripped you off on your alignment. Shame on DUNN TIRE. I still think your investigation was far-fetched and made you seem like you never worked with those products or conducted those services.
Comparing numbers before and after clearly says that "before" measurement was made improperly. They are two exactly the same alignments (within the measurement tolerance) but with the steering wheel turned slightly to the left on the "before" measurement. And "after" is the correctly made measurement with the steering wheel in the neutral position. It's very simple way to mock the failure and then "fix" it
The year they first came out I bought a new 4 cylinder Honda Civic. Drove it a while, brought it back for the 2000 mile check. They had given me a list of all that entailed, and I had purchased a marking pen and marked every bolt/nut that they would have to touch. Left the car with them, and when I came back to pick it up they proudly told me all of the work they had done. I opened the hood and started checking my marks, and most of the markings were broken, but not all. So I asked the Service Manager "How did they adjust the valves without removing the valve cover?" and showed him the valve cover bolts. He apologized, took the car back in the service bay, there was some yelling, and a while later my car came back out. He apologized again, changed my bill to zero dollars, and all was good. As long as he worked there I got first class service from then on.
I got this alignment report while sitting at the desk completing paperwork for oil change. Fortunately, I didn’t have the hour and a half to “fix” the .20 frontal toe issue. While sitting in the waiting room, I watched this video and got 100% smarter. Thank you. While I’m here, I think I’ll ask to see my shiny new air filter before driving off the lot, too. Maybe even ask for the old one as a souvenir. 😬
I used to be a VW/Audi tech and did alignments. I used to hate doing them because it was such a pain to set up the machine. 90% of the time spent was the "checking" and we charged for it whether you needed any adjustments or not. Most dealership techs work on "flat rate", which means they get paid a certain amount of time for a job regardless of how long it takes. In our case, an alignment paid 1.5 hours to check and the adjustments were more time if they were needed. There is no way they could have gotten us to do checks for free. The first time I heard of this checking alignment for free deal at tire shops, I was really surprised and glad I wasn't the tech having to waste my time checking the alignment on a car that I just took 4 evenly worn tires off of. But, these shops probably pay their techs by the hour, so the techs don't care. The shop is gambling that if they spend their tech's time checking the alignment, they will get enough cars that are enough out of alignment that they can charge the 99 bucks and make up for the wasted time. So yeah the tech probably leaned on your tire, got the thing to go green and hit print. Those machines are incredibly accurate and just bumping the car can make them change. Like I said - it's a big pain in the butt and I hated it. Part of the reason I got out of that trade was all this underhanded stuff that goes on and the up-sales and being pushed to sell stuff customer's didn't really need. That tech probably knew that you would have been fine and had no tire wear with that little bit of tow, but he was probably trained to sell that alignment if that machine had any red to make up for the time checking....Wow that was really long winded but this struck a nerve for me as the guy on the other end of it for years.
One of the biggest mistake high schools made, at least mine, was taking auto shop out of the curriculum. I knew more about cars by the time I was a senior in high school than most people I know today. There are so many scams out there that take advantage of people who have no clue about how their car works. You can ask them what dress their favorite celebrity got married in and they'll know, but you can ask them a basic question about their car and they will stand there with a blank look.
Okay so, your close but a rim doesn't turn on its centre as it's got offset which gives you your scrub Radius when combined with the SAI and Caster. What they did was turn the steering wheel to equalise your toe and hit print.
NO HAMMER NEEDED. SIMPLY THEY NEVER ADJUSTED ANYTHING. THE TOTAL TOE STAYED AT .19 DEGREES SO THEY JUST TURNED THE STEERING WHEEL TO THE RIGHT A TAD. LEFT SIDE TIRE MOVED .04 AND RIGHT SIDE -.04.
Sorry. Lol. Didn't mean to yell. There was over 1k comments and wanted it to be seen. I've been a mechanic and have done over 25k alignments in my career so I know all the alignment angles and terminology.
My father caught the local Dealer on work not performed. He put a dab of model car paint on the bolts that had to be removed or adjusted. He checked the car and remarked to the service manager "you guys are good - you even aligned the cracks in the paint at each nut/bolt. He called the state in on that repair and the dealership was shut down for a month.
You need to complain to Corporate headquarters! They will revoke his dealership license and shut him down permanently. Big corporations don't like their good names smurred by unethical individuals. 🙏
I am long since retired from the auto repair business. While I did general repair, I was specifically a front end and alignment specialist. So. the video caught my interest. It often takes more time to drive a vehicle onto the alignment rack, attach the alignment equipment, and check the specifications than it takes to actually make the adjustments in many cases. The "free" alignment check is a marketing tool or strategy to uncover needed additional work. It is not a scam. And it costs the shop time and money. Now, if the work is charged for and not done, that is a scam.
I take it you have never done an alignment before. An average car .04* tie rod adjustment is 100% possible, .01* is also 100% possible, .04* slop in the steering is also possible. the average outer tie rod is close to the bead of a stock sized wheel, the average car has a tie rod with a 16TPI adjustment thread so one rotation of the inner tie rod would get you .0625" of travel so about 30* on the inner tie rod would get you your .006" of travel. The best way to tell is just look at the tie rod jam just and see if there is evidence a wrench has touched it. it only takes a few seconds to adjust a single tie rod, you pay $99 for the value of having your alignment fixed not some guy working on your car for an hour. Pro tip, next time you take a car there, don't answer the phone when they call, if the alignment is slightly off like it was in the case and the car is on the rack and you don't answer they will just fix it because spending 30 seconds adjusting a tie rod is better than the car tying up the rack waiting for you to call back, or taking the car off the rack and then having you call back and say you want the alignment performed then they have to put it back on. This way they will either say the alignment was good when you call in or say they need to adjust some things, in that case just decline the service and you will get a free alignment with your free alignment check, If you accept they will just sit on your ticket for a few hours and call you back and add $99 to your bill.
Just saw this video. As a retired brake and alignment tech, this kind if crap pisses me off. I worked for years at a major tire retailer and the famous alignment check was standard operation, BUT i would never charge a customer for something like that, thatbplace is an obvious rip-off. We as techs couldn't do anything about the cost of the sensor kit, but they are needed, especially in areas that have a lot of inclement weather. It really bothers me when businesses do stuff like this because it makes it harder to sell to the people who really need the alignment done
My car was pulling to the right driving at 55mph got new tires and alignment literally now the car goes flipping straight but it cost me a flipping arm and a 🦵 leg
@@Username-2 don't know where you're from, but in the US it's mandatory on all vehicles after 2007, my comment about needing them is referring to the rebuild kit, not the sensors. I don't like them either, but it helps people like my wife who can't look at a tire and see if it's low or not
@@darrellgarlough7140 I live in the US. Yes I know they come on the car mandatory but there is no reason to keep them when getting new tires. I always tell them no I don’t want them, and cover the light on my dash. No offense to your wife but if someone can’t check their tire pressure occasionally they shouldn’t be driving.
someone might have pointed this out already but it appears that the steering wheel was not straight in the before pic (steer ahead) and it was moved in the after pic. The total toe was the same before and after. The left front was moved in/right and the right front was moved out/right. so there "alignment" was to slightly bump the steering wheel to the right, thus fixing the "steer ahead" and the right front toe. the left front moved as well but it within specs before and after. Having said this, please don't think all automotive repair shops are like this. now go out and find a technician you can trust. good luck.
I do my own oil changes and years ago I needed an A/C belt. I brought my car in after I recently changed the oil and had a different shop replace the transmission fluid. I got a call later asking if I wanted an oil change and transmission service because the fluids looked dark to them. I declined and never went back
All they did on the alignment was turn the steering wheel to the right to move the .04 and keep both sides in spec. That's why your left toe went from .03 to .07 . This kind of crap is what makes it hard to trust any auto shops. Im a mechanic, and I've seen it before but that's not how I do business.
I accidently landed on your channel/video and so happy I did. I can't thank you enough for your integrity and doing the right thing. Your very unique in today's society where many people and organizations try and cheat each other financially and through greed. Thank you Pete!!
You're wrong! The scam is worse than you described. When the Toe on the right wheel went from .16L to .12L (0.04 change to the right), the Toe on the left wheel went from .03R to .07R (0.04 change to the right). This means they didn't hit your wheel with a mallet. All they did was turn the steering wheel slightly right. Notice your Total Toe did not change. Nothing changed. They just didn't have your steering wheel perfectly centered.
The other big tell is steer ahead. Meaning the wheels weren't even centered when the snapshot was taken. Centered the wheels... Viola the problem was solved.
I went in for tires on an old farm truck that was going the crusher 2 days later ( tire were for another truck) but this truck wasn’t on the road being used at the time and had matching wheels size. So i drove in this total “pos” for tires and they offered a “free safety check”. They came out 2 hrs later with 4 tires and a laundry list of repairs needed, or they weren’t going to let me drive it home! I read through their laundry list of shocks ball joints tie-rod ends, steering box adjustment, lights, brakes, and on and on! But never did they mention the cracked frame at the steering box, rotted out floors broken frame mounts or the crack that was present between the cab and bed of the truck! Their bill was $8500.00 for all needed repairs! I said no thanks, pointed to my roll back outside, and told them that they had missed major safety issues and if they proceeded to keep my truck they were in for more trouble then they were expecting! Needless to say the shop called the police to report me for driving an unsafe vehicle, wanted me to pay for the tires, which I did, but still insisted that all other repairs had to be done by their shop before it could be released! Police came shop manager stated I was threatening him and the shop, and he had it on video! So I looked at the officer, and asked to see the video ( that didn’t exist) with a big smile on my face. I told the police officer what was going on, the plans for the tires, and the fact that my roll back was parked outside and this truck wasn’t going on the road ever! The police officer informed the manager the truck needed to be released. Five months later shop is under investigation for misrepresenting repairs, submissions of double billing and money laundering! Can you say karma is a b!
@@Normal1855 not illegal to not allow an unsafe vehicle on the road, illegal to not release it after the bill has been paid for the actual service rendered, 4 tires mounted and balanced! This vehicle was towed in, and parked down the lot, and was being towed out as well.
They didn't make an adjustment, and the car didn't need an alignment, and you didn't need to look under the car to determine this: Total toe before the "alignment" was .19 degrees, and after the "adjustment" the total toe was still .19 degrees. They turned the steering wheel enough to push the right side tire into the red, printed the alignment, then turned the wheel back to bring it into the green and printed it again. Now, alignments nowadays take some time to pull the car on the rack, set the heads up on the car, compensate the heads, and do the caster swing to get the readings. The actual adjustments (if it's only the toe that needs to be adjusted), only takes a few minutes, so the fact that they called a few minutes later is not proof by itself that they didn't adjust anything. The real proof is that the total toe didn't change, and that your steering wheel wasn't crooked when you brought it in. You should go back and let them know you knew, and give them the link to this video! LOL
Before you replace your tires, look at each tire for tread wear and that will tell you if you have an issue, It should wear evenly across the tire in general.
I had a dealership attempt to sell me a new transfer case for $4000, for a nasty vibration. The service manager almost got me. I drove away to a independent repair shop; repaired for $60! A U joint needed replaced. $60 included a u joint and labor. I tore one hell of a strip of that service manager. I also ended all future work and future car purchases at that dealer forever.
Hm, what nobody here seems to have a problem with is that they mounted other tires than he ordered, without asking him first. I would have said, take 'em off again, I do want the ones I told you, and if you can't get them, I'll go somewhere else. Doesn't matter if they gave him a little more expensive ones for the original quoted price. Before I buy tires, I do research on tire test results, and make my decision of which brand I buy based on that. A tire that costs only a little more might have worse performance results...
and woh setiting price the the tire shop, the manufactures RRP price ? any one inflate the price of something they are selling, in fact it the cornerstone business by one price sell same price+(you costs), what ever that is
Yes you can make that fine of an adjustment on the alignment rack but they didn't. They turned the steering wheel slightly, took the before snapshot, then turned it back and took the after snapshot. You can tell because the left side was .03 and right was .16 but after left was .07 and right was .12, the total didn't change. The alignment was fine they just nudged the steering wheel to shift the measurement to one side.
As a former truck mechanic and fleet manager, I do most of my own repairs. But some things you can’t do it which means you have to go to a tire shop. I have yet to find a tire shop that was not trying to scam me. But I shut them down pretty quick . The line that I love the most is the line that they use last time I was in trying to buy some tires. They are the experts and they know what’s best for me. My car is too complex for me to understand.
A popular tire chain shop in my area, I "use" to go there religiously until about 15 years ago. Got my new tires with "free" alignment then sales manager tells me they can't do the alignment because ball joints need replacing. Quoted me $1500 bucks to to replace the joints, skipped it - no way. A week later took it to a shop that specialized in alignments that came heavily recommended, 1) I didn't need an alignment and 2) the ball joints were fine.
"Upgrading" the tires without having the customer's consent is also a big issue. Granted some don't pay close attention to their tire design and specs. But others care significantly what tires they are buying.
I'm not sure if he really understands wheel alignment but on the before and after printout the front total toe is 0.19⁰. since the total toe didn't change but left and right toe did change, all the technician did was move the steering wheel slightly so that both front wheels read within specification. That also explains how they were able to do the alignment so quickly. To clarify, I started working as a suspension and alignment specialist (I only do suspension and alignment) in 1978 and continued to do so for 42 years. In fact, I've seen many alignment mechanics that don't even know how to read their own printout. I would like to add that you can adjust the toe at the tie rod by as little as .001⁰. A hammer is not required to make small toe adjustments. Toe is a critical tire wear angle and has the smallest tolerances of any alignment angle. So, this guy is dishing out some bad information.
Agreed. I'm not a mechanic but I do most of my own repairs. It is definitely possible to move the adjustment nut to get his .04 back in spec. Probably less than a 1/4 turn. And if car still on rack it only takes a few seconds.
I also had a problem with that same "tire dealership". They calmly and cooly told me (in front of 6 people in the waiting room), that 2 of my tire pressure sensors were bad and needed replacement (at $70.00 each). I looked at the "service manager" and calmly and cooly replied... That's weird because my Jeep does not have a tire pressure monitoring system on it and those rims don't have tps transmitters in them! Them I asked him... how many of these customers sitting here are you going to advise that they also need something done? The "service manager" got extremely embarrassed and started stuttering about he must have gotten my service order and someone else's mixed up. I asked him why, if that was the case, did he specifically refer to the service order and identify my Jeep Wrangler and my name? He got really upset and told me to pay for my tires and leave his store immediately... "I was heartbroken and devastated by that Ha Ha Ha"
I got a "free" diagnostic at AAA which ended up costing me 300.00. My rule now is, if a garage "finds" something, I being it to another shop. Years ago, I brought my car to Midas muffler and from that point on, I needed new mufflers/ repairs regularly. Once I switched shops, I never had another problem.
No adjustments were made on this vehicle . I do alignments for a living and have printed out many printouts . All the tech did was mount the heads got a before measurement , banged the wheel so the After measurement was all green and charged you . You can clearly see what he did . If this was a real alignment the toe should have been perfect both sides not .07 on the left and . 012 on the right . The final clue to the rip off is the total toe did not change again showing he did no adjustments , just banged the wheel to show green . I hate these types of situations because it gives a bad name to guys like me who make their living by treating customers with respect and honesty
They didn't use a hammer... they simple nudged the steering wheel a bit. You can see that the 0.04° change that gets it into spec, happened on BOTH sides in the same direction!
I have worked at a dealership for 30 years the alignment check takes about 5 minutes because it is driver over equipment. We do alignment included with the tire replacement. The reason they did the TPMS repair kit because if they don’t and it starts leaking you’re going to yell and scream now you have a leak after they replaced the tires.
Went to a Quick Oil change and they came out and said my air filter was bad, I told them I replaced it 3 weeks earlier, he was looking for a place to hide..
@@tech653 Dealers are crooks too, took my Acura to the dealer I bought it from and they said I needed new front brakes for $800.00. I only use OEM brake parts and they said they didnt have them in stock. I ordered online, took the wheels off and found I had about 60% left. You cant trust anyone..
@@Rick-tb4so You have just had some really bad luck, I guess. I've been working for dealerships for the past 25+ years, and every service manager I have worked for harps on not selling something the customer doesn't need. That's the reason I've been so successful over the years. Once my customers learn I'm not going to rip them off, they trust me. I have people that drive from more than 150 miles away for me to work on their vehicle. That's the way this business should be. People screaming about one or two bad experiences makes it really hard to attract new customers. Find another dealer. Unfortunately, that may be the only resolution.
Yes! The automatic need for an alignment with new tires was tried with me. When I pushed back they backed down. P.S., I’ve gone 48,000 miles with no need for an alignment. Tracks perfectly.
The car tracking perfect doesn’t necessarily mean that your alignment is perfect. Hitting potholes in the road can knock a vehicle out of alignment. And while nowadays many if not most cars do not have adjustable camber or caster. What you do if tires are wearing etc. Is to buy a camber kit or whatever component or kit necessary to get your readings right.
@@johnrussell2918 well, from my driver point of view, it’s good! And yes, I’m cognizant of things that can knock it out of alignment and avoid them. Tires wearing perfectly.
The gentleman of this video is doing the same thing by taking advantage of non car people. From the perspective of someone that doesn't understand how alignment machine work, can me jarring. But this video is very misleading
Hi Pete , I don't think they have used the mallet Hummer at all, instead if you look at the sheet, the right toe is 0.16 and the left is 0.03 and after the adjustment the right front has gone to 0.12 and the left to 0.07 . DEFINITE CONCLUSION FOR THE 4 MINUTES WORK THEY HAVE SIMPLY TURNED THE STEERING WHEEL SLITLY TO THE LEFT!!!!That's why you are quite right on suspecting such a job so fast but SO ACCURATE !! But if you look properly at both sheets you'll find that the .04 discrepancy you'll find it exactly on to the LEFT!!!! Are they super naturals doing wheel alignments with MICROMETERS?? CIAO
They did not even hit it with a hammer ! total toe did not change from .19 just look at left toe, it went from .03 to .07 and right side went from .16 to .12 and the total toe did not change all they did is turn the steering wheel until all went green (in spec) and hit the print button that is typical of tire shops, i have been a mechanic for over 35 years and have gone to the mat with more than one tire shop
So as an honest alignment tech with lots of experience on the hunter equipment they used.. they did absolutely nothing here.. the steering wheel was not perfectly centered when they took the before measurements. They hopped in the car turned they wheel 2 human hairs to the right and then clicked print .if they made any adjustment at all total toe would have changed and it did not.
While growing up, our family was on a trip out west. We stopped for gas and the attendant was looking at the rear of the car. I was sitting in the car, reading a comic when I heard some rattling from the back. I got out and here was the attendant holding an oil pump can, trying to hide it. He put it down and walked over to my father and said it "looks like you have a blown shock. You really need to replace it and should do both." I walked over, picked up the oil can and told my dad the guy had just put it down. My dad looked underneath and told the attendant he was going to call the company (Humble Oil, now Exxon). The attendant screamed get out of here, we piled into the car and left. My dad did call the company later than day, pointing out he owned stock in the company. When we came back though that town a month later on the way home, the station was "closed for repairs". Turned out it was a company location and they were sending in a new manager and looking for all new staff. This was in the late 60's and it taught me to buy at least 1 share in a company that is ripping you off and then call investor relations. You can get results!
First, YES you were ripped off. I teach at a local college and specialize in alignments. Is it possible to tighten up that tolerance? yes. Its not as hard as you are explaining it. THE PROBLEM is the "TOTAL TOE". That number never changed which tells me they slightly turned the wheel to make the right wheel show it was out of spec. All they did was turn the wheel back and said they adjusted it. They completely ripped you off for $100.
@@carlitosgy6 like i said, this was a rip off. nothing was done except moving the steering wheel very slightly to look like they did adjustments. Thats why you look at "total toe" to see if they actually adjusted anything
I spent 20 years managing a tyre garage. First off the internet is dumb, tyres get ordered that are not in stock so a better brand is fitted. Thats an upgrade. The fitting kit you showed was not one for your car its a snap on valve with a stem that the sensor fits to. If you dont change these they will leak when the rubber perishes.i have seen thousands. While the wheel and tyre is off its £15 for a new one. If you drive in for one its £40. We always did a free alignment check, if it wasnt out we told them so.if we were busy we just did the adjustment before asking, as its quicker than taking the gauges off and parking up, then waiting for a space to get the car back in. It takes seconds to adjust the track rod end. Undo lock nut, turn rack rod till lazer it on point, the lock it. It was always the dumb mechanics that never had it done, they came back on 6 months moaning tires were bald.
"It takes seconds to adjust the track rod end. Undo lock nut, turn rack rod till lazer it on point, the lock it." This is pure genius. Pure gold. And please tell me, how do you know exactly how much to turn the tie rod? By feel? By your intuition?
@@MM-wp5sp its easy. you put the spanner on, and look at the laser line on the gauges, and turn the tie rod, you see the laser line move. when its where its meant to be. tighten the lock nut. check all the gauges, double check all lock nuts. it was my job for 20 years. btw if the tracking is out it may not wear the edge of the tyre, it can wear evenly across the tire. they just wear quicker and use more fuel. thats why grease monkey mechanics think that cars dont need adjusting. they just make them adjustable for no reason in their minds.
The part that upsets me the most is the “tire upgrade” without your (my) permission. I am VERY picky about my tires and carefully choose based on a number of factors, and so if I picked out my perfect tires and they put on something different - even if they THINK they are better - they’ll be retaking them back off!
I agree that's the thing that would have set me off. I would have demanded they put the tires I requested on. I am very particular about what tires I buy as well.
I worked at sears auto center for almost 10 years. Even if your your alignment is all within spec, hit the tire with a hammer. Shit hit it with your hand. The steering parts all have slight play. That will easily show 0.06 positive or negative. It's way to easy to turn an acceptable measurement to an out of spec number. And I have seen it many many times. I've even seen them make a car show out of spec. Record that measurement. Then hit it back the other way to record the "corrected" measurement. Then it comes to the sales guy to sell it. If they accept the alignment, they are given one printout. If they decline, they are given a diffrent print out. Also, the shop time to replace a tiered ALSO INCLUDES a toe adjustment. If an alignment is also performed, deduct .2 hours. 0.7 R&R tie rod with toe adjust 0.5 R&R tie rod with full alignment (not needed)
Total Toe. That's the key here. It didn't change. You had a little spread on your toe, they turned the wheel to put 1 in the red, then turned it back dead center to put it green again and print the second page. If they'd adjusted anything, the total toe would have changed. All they adjusted was your wallet. I hate this crap so much. Alignment checks are supposed to be to legitimately help customers and make sure they won't ruin their tires... not to rip them off because you're having a slow week.
Thank you very much for your comment. I am so happy you get it. Unfortunately when I try to help non-car people, the mechanics who do the work scrutinize the video like I'm writing the Haynes manual. I get that too, they want to provide accurate information. The balance between helpful to most, and too technical for most is difficult.
Yep, took my car in to the dealership for an oil change because of a $25 off coupon (synthetic). After about a week the car developed a creaking, groaning noise. Took it back for a “diagnostic.” 2 hours and $99 later I was told I needed new front shocks for $1,850. They even did a video showing me what they found. I already did the research and shocks were only $250 each. I told them no, and went to my mechanic. My mechanic quoted me $80p. He called 15 minutes later and said it’s all fixed and didn’t charge me a dime. He told me the dealer didn’t tighten the bolts to the undercarriage brace after they did the oil change! 🤦🏻♂️
You missed it. There is a line on the sheet for "total toe", and it doesn't change. Both sides changed by about the same amount so all they did was turn the steering slightly until both sides were in spec.
Exactly this. At some point people started to fall for the "it's out .00x of a degree, it must be fixed" and shops started to take advantage of it. Is it better if everything is right on the nominal value? Obviously, but people forget alignments were done for decades with a tape measure, strings and whatever else and cars drove down the road just fine without chewing tires up left and right.
My local BMW dealer during a recall appointment did a “complimentary” evaluation of my car. They sent me a well produced video telling me I needed $4800 of work. This consisted of new wiper blades that I replaced 2 months ago, as well as 2 oil cooler gaskets that were replaced 1 year ago as well as brake pads that do not need replacement yet! A total scam!!!
I have specialized in automotive suspension and alignment for almost 40 years. Here is what actually happened. NOTHING. Look at your total toe measurements on both printouts. They are the same. This is because all the technician did was make the first print with the steering wheel steered slightly left and then straightened the steering wheel and take second print. You were taken advantage of and that’s how it was done.
That's how they got me. I notice no change in alignment. Next time I will stress the fact that it pulls to the left before they do the job.
Thank you 😊
How do you know the steering wheel is straight or off. Maybe the toe is really out on one side. Be careful telling people this stuff. The shop needs to mark up parts to keep the lights on.
@@michaelstrawn3301 because they couldn’t fix that in 4 min
Your right, they didn’t adjust anything just moved the steering wheel and completed the alignment.
I'm a ASE Master technician 52 years all phases of repair on any unit but prefer collision work anyway retired now and went through same bull. My back was sore so I went for a oil change soon as they get the car in the service tech shows me a trans dip stick and power steering cap with dirty fluid on them.said I need a trans flush and steering flush.I asked him 3 times sure that's from my car. Yes it is he says. My car is a 2008 hhr. Hhr has no trans dipstick and electric power steering. I said show me where they go so I could see myself.after 10 minutes fumbling around they couldnt.Guess who got a free oil change and filter. Lmao
😆😆😆😆😆
I guess they tried the wrong guy.. I love when people assume you're stupid and know nothing when you're getting a car serviced. I love to play along and see how far they try to get before I reveal my credentials. LOL 😆
😂 that is hilarious, it’s so sad when people don’t know anything about their vehicles.
@@Justforfun-ek7et The sad part is that people will take advantage of other people because most people cannot know everything about their vehicle (or any device, appliance, etc).
👍
As a Technician for 15 years I hate that my industry is pretty well known for being shady. I constantly strive to recommend and perform work that is needed and not recommend anything to any customer that I would not recommend to my own mother. Just to clarify I love my mother
It's hard to be the honest guy
I rely on guys like u and Pete and learn as much as i can on my own…im lucky my mechanic of 32 years has become a family friend over the decades
I agree bro. But that’s why I got into it so I don’t have to trust someone else and I can be honest and actually help people.keep doing good the world needs good people.
Would this be worthy of a lawsuit since you have the proof?
I would simply reclaim my money since they put on the "wrong" tires anyway...
I got fired from a local dealership because I wouldn't do that to the customers. They wanted me to for a elderly lady to get new tires because hers need to be changed soon Maybe about 20k miles left in them. And I told her you need to be thinking about changing them soon not today but they are getting close and my boss was mad because I didn't tell her it needed to be done that day. I'm happy I got fired I personally can't lie to someones face like that and sleep at night
I'm the same way. Luckily the boss doesn't push like that. Instead we find that being honest like that, they come back to us for the work when it's ready.
Firestone told me my battery was weak
And needed replacing today. I drove the truck another year. Bought my battery elsewhere.
@@austyndrums1993 - This is the way.
They need to bann ommissioned service writers same as doctors cannot recommend open heart surgery unless needed.
Look carefully at the first and second report. They had your steering wheel off center just enough to get the tire to flash red "out of spec" on the machine. When you OK'd the $99 alignment, they just turned the steering wheel a smidge until everything showed green and printed the report. Your left toe and steer ahead also changed by .04 degrees which proves they never put a wrench on the tie rod to adjust your alignment. Total rip off. Make 'em famous. (FYI I'm a former ASE certified automotive technician)
Well done sir.
Ha! You're right. lol. That's awesome. lololol
Okay this repeat observation of turning the steering wheel on that is starting to get annoying this is like the 10th person to explain it and fold the tail in the comments
(This has happened since my last comment) I was the new guy at a car dealership. MY first job there was just an oil change on a car with 41k miles on it. This model car was known to have valve cover leaks. So I checked for that, specifically, along with a small list of other known problems, as well as regular safety checks. Brought the paperwork back to the service advisor and the shop manager was there, looked at my paperwork, and flatly said 'It needs valve cover gaskets, they're leaking on this car.' I told him that I knew they were an issue on this car, but they were spotlessly clean. He cussed me and said he would show because I was 'Obviously incompetent'. He looked. He literally said "It does not matter. Write it up as leaking." I refused and was fired on the spot. They wrote it up and gave a report. Little did they know it was a state inspection vehicle. The shop got a $20,000 fine for it. I was caught up in it as I had done the work on it BUT I had taken a pic of my finished inspection report. Odd that the report number that I had did not match the inspection report THEY had. They had re-written the report onto a new service order. Hey! Sometimes you get caught scamming someone that actually writes the rules.....
Oh sweet justice was served! I love this.
I ve witnessed worse scenarios than that.
Thank God you took the pic. They tried to say you were the one to put down the oil leak! What car was it?
@@naruttaanime9471 The problem was the manager and not the car so it would be unfair to mention the car brand or model.
@@davidbeckenbaugh9598 we need to know what cars have common oil leak problem so we get the factory to fix free and add 10 year extra in case they use the same trash seals.
I work with this exact alignment system everyday at work. They put the car on the alignment rack and slightly steered the wheel to the left indicated by the steer ahead measurement -0.06, this will cause the toe to increase on the left wheel and decrease on the right. Then once you approved the repair, they steered the wheel back to the center indicated by the steer ahead moving closer to zero just enough to get both toe reading in spec. You can see that the left wheel toe reading decreased and the right increased in the same amount. I work in this field and this is really disappointing to see. Makes us all look like crooks.
There are some great shops and great techs. Always a few rotten apples in any field. We have 2 great alignment shops nearby.
The funny part is that this is exactly what happened, you can clearly read it directly from before and after prints. Yet the author gave us a geometry class to conclude that they hit it with a hammer to align something in gearbox, which has nothing to do with toe. This video is every kind of wrong, both from mechanics' and author's side.
The "free tire upgrade" is something to be careful of, here's why; tires have date codes of when they were made. Tires age with time as well as with miles and so when you purchase new tires, you want to make sure to ask that the tires date code is no more that 6 months old from date of your purchase. Shops are aware of this and may offer "free tire upgrade" to get rid of "NOS" new old stock in their inventory. Discount tires will not work on tires that have a date code older than 10 years. I have seen NOS tires that were 7 years old and still never used; these tires can sit in warehouse for years and then be purchased cheap to sell. Buyer be ware. Thanks Pete for the great advise, I appreciate it!
While I’m not disagreeing that you got scammed, because I believe you did. Just not the way you think. My first disagreement is with your argument that you can’t adjust 0.04 degrees. I do alignments all the time and I spend the time to always get them within 0.01 degrees on either side, it’s pretty easy to do. Unfortunately I can tell from your before and after sheets that all they did was turned the steering wheel a tiny amount. Your alignment was fine and didn’t need to be adjusted. Don’t go back to those scammers. I think it’s good to be skeptical and ask questions, but there are good shops out there, I firmly believe the one I work at is honest, otherwise I wouldn’t work for them.
I’m in the same boat . I do alignments all the time in just a few minutes. But you were ripped off. They just spun the steering wheel like 1/32 of a turn
I also have disagreement with the 4 mins of work problem. If they already have it on the rack and it is a small adjustment, then 4 mins is realistic too. No mechanic that gets flat rate is going to ever take .1 for an alignment. Just because I can do the job in 4 mins doesn't mean that everybody can. They clearly did just turn the wheel here or push on the tire enough to turn them in, but he isn't getting the clear picture on what an alignment is either. I often make fine tuned adjustments on alignments too. I however aim for a lot closer to perfect as opposed to good enough lol.
Yup. Total toe and steer ahead angle says it all. The only thing they did is turn the steering wheel a little bit. They didn't adjust anything underneath the car.
I would think with larger tires and wheels the more the toe or other aspect of the alignment would be of greater affect on the edges of the tire and ware. Down to the 0.01. I know that some factory alignments for some large truck manufactures are waaaay off. But less than what Pete was talking about and the tires seem to get wore even quicker. But that’s also a different application maybe. With heavier weights per axel.
All small garages are rip off places unless you personally know them .. I always get a second opinion ..
The "total toe" stayed exactly the same at 0.19, before and after. Yes, the right toe went down, but the left went up by the same margin. So to get the "after" to within spec, all that was done was to turn the steering wheel ever so slightly left.
the before was with the steering wheel slightly left, so to get the after they would turn the wheel slightly right (back to center).
1. I can adjust it .01 at a time. 2. I can do most toe and go alignments in 7 minutes. A toe set is super fast. 3. They did rip you off. Total toe didn't change. They just turned the wheel slightly and took a printout.
100% correct.
This right here. Done 1,000s of alignments in my career.
I wouldn't have told him he needed an alignment.
That's about the only thing I agree with in this vid, though.
Just read your comment and your right, you can do it quick but 8 mins between calls is a little suspect haha.
Agreed....from pro to pro thanks for your honesty..... its time to put a stop to this nonsense
.006” out of spec doesn’t need adjustment..
Ripped.!
Actually if you look at your spec on the left wheel what they did was even simpler. While the right toe-in decreased by .04" the left toe-in increased by .04" to .07". They didn't hit just that wheel rim with a hammer, they just nudged the steering to the left.
Good observation!!
Toe before was .03 and 0.16. Total toe was .19. After toe was .07 and .12 total was still .19. They turned wheel left printed before the turned little to right and printed after.
THIS!!!!!!!!!!
I'm ASE certified and worked in garages for 15yrs. Every garage I worked for we had to always treat the customers the right way. Had to fix things that scam garages had done. A lot of times never charged customer for it. But I always brought it to their attention before anything was done. I treated my customers the way I would want to be treated. And over a 15yr period I saw and heard way to many horror stories about how customers had been treated at scam shops. Keep educating people. Knowledge is power. God Bless
My sister had a certified pre-owned Acura MDX which included "free" oil changes for as long as they own the vehicle. They took their car in to get an oil change and when it was done the dealership called them and said "we performed the oil change but your back brakes are basically gone. We highly recommend having them serviced". My sister called me because I know a lot about cars and I told her to tell the dealership thank you but you'll pass. I call the local auto parts store and had them put a set of rear pads on the counter for her to pick up and I would just swap them out which takes minutes. When they went to pick up the car the dealership told them that they would be liable for an accident by releasing a car without operating brakes so they needed to do the work. My sister called me again to tell me this, and I told her to tell them that she'll call the police if they don't give her the keys to her car. So they did, and my sister picked up the set of pads from the auto parts store and stopped by my house for me to put them in.
I pulled off a rear tire, and could easily see that the pads were basically like new, and they were being scammed. I took a picture of the existing brake pads next to a brand new pad that we had in the box and you could barely tell the difference. I bothered to drive to the dealership and in the customer waiting area had a loud conversation (with 10 + customers listening in) with the service manager letting him know that customers don't appreciate being scammed like this. They denied the whole thing.
As a certified licensed interprovincial automotive, light trucks, truck and trailer, HDET in Canada with over 45 years in the trade 20 as a alignment specialist, I say that any time you go for an alignment, insist on a before AND after print out of the suspension settings.
You overlooked a HUGE detail. You might want to pin this comment. :D
Look at the total toe before and after. Notice it didn't change? That means that NO ADJUSTMENTS WERE MADE. Let me explain. After watching your whole video and considering the specific details of this case, here's what happened.
The tech purposefully set the steering wheel to one side slightly to cause one of (or both if they would have went a little farther) of the toe readings to go red. They made the printout. Once you approved the alignment, they simply centered the steering wheel which centered the toe, which made the toe go green BECAUSE IN THIS CASE, IT DIDN'T NEED AN ALIGNMENT and then called you 4 minutes later and said it was done. They were able to call you 4 minutes later BECUASE NO ADJUSMENTS WERE MADE, they simply centered the wheel and made an "after" printout. Yes, this was an absolute ripoff, fraud, scam in this case. THEY MADE NO ADJUSTMENTS, with a hammer or otherwise. BTW, that is not a thing AT ALL to hit something with a hammer and make something move.
I have 25 years auto mechanic experience and have done hundreds of alignments. This is 100% what happened. I'm pretty shocked that they gave you the evidence that proves they made ZERO adjustments. This by all rights should have been a FREE check, since they offer that. In fairness, very very few vehicles on the road would need NO adjustments, that is very rare. In this case, none were needed, and none were done, and you should have been given the free check 100%.
Side note, it is 100% possible to move the toe 0.04 degrees. It happens every day. I could easily move something. 0.01 degrees. Also, it is a very legitimate thing to offer an alignment to "protect your new purchase" People are going to be scrutinizing the tires, the mileage they get out of them, the wear, any noise they may make if they wear odd. Doing an alignment will help your cause as a customer if you do have any issues, because you give the tires a best case scenario by doing an alignment, and that now cannot be used by the shop or the manufacturer as an excuse for any issues that arise. Don't fault a shop for wanting to do an alignment when new tires are put on. In this case, sure, fault them, you got ripped off 100%.
He probably just leaned on the car or something else minor but you're right, it didn't need and adjustment.
Whether or not he was ripped off depends on the labor rate in his area. I California that's probably fair for setting up the machine. In Oklahoma he'd be screwed out of 50 bucks maybe because I'm thinking the labor rate there is about half what it is in CA just to pick numbers that are close.
@@dwaynestomp5462 you missed a detail. It was supposed to be a free check if it didn't need any adjustments. They faked it being out of spec in order to charge him, and did literally nothing. That is a rip off and honestly, theft
@@horspla2000 No, I think I wrote a wall-o-text talking about that, and why that happens.
I love your analogy. I have specialized in collision and modified suspension alignment for more than forty years. I did reply similar to you but not nearly in as much detail. I learned on a bubble gage in the late 70s as we didn't have computer alignment then. You actually had to understand the angles (caster, camber, toe and steering axis inclination). Now days, many techs only know that green is good and red is bad and many can't understand why it pulls right with positive cross caster when everything is green.
Total toe absolutely correct but what really seals the deal is the before and after steer ahead reading, proves they just moved the steering wheel.
As an alignment tech I can tell you that you can move the number by that much just by putting your hand on the wheel with about 3 lbs of pressure. Note total tow was in spec it's steer ahead that is out of spec, that means that the steering wheel was not centered. He is correct it didn't need an alignment.
Haha that's what I said. They just turned his steering wheel. Pretty good scam.
Right on
Had alignment done. 2 times now. The steering wheel is off. What gives?
@@seanwolford5186 The shop tech was not using easy toe. If the steering wheel is not centered before you start the alignment machine should have you center it before you adjust the toe. If you use the machines functions, it works as long as the machine is in calibration.
@@seanwolford5186 is it just off center or is it actually pulling also?
As a mechanic who does alignments, I call potholes "job security" lol joking, but at the shop were I work we are as honest as we can possibly be. If we are in the wrong for something, we admit to it and learn what we did wrong and how we can prevent that from happening again. Also, when we do a job that wasn't done right we happily refund the money and learn from out mistakes
I'm currently a tech for a local tire and mechanic shop. I'm so glad that the boss is so laid back and he doesn't push the customers to do unnecessary things to their customers cars. I did however get fired from Firestone because I refused to recommend unnecessary services to the customer's cars. I've been a tech for 14 years and yes I've worked in a few shady shops in my career but I walked out on them because I refused to play along with their shady acts. Only time I really recommend services on customers cars is unless they're really necessary. I'm also the kind of guy that allows the customers to walk inside the shop and I happily show the customer's what their cars really needs done.
If you look closely at the toe before and after you can see that all they did was turn the steering wheel to the right a tad. The original .03 on the left turned to .07 which is .04 degrees to the right. Same with the right side. Started at .16 and ended up at .12 which is .04 degrees. They literally moved the steering wheel right by .04 degrees. The total toe did not change. The total toe would've changed if they had adjusted one side. The chalk probably was there from the factory. Most factories mark certain parts they've tightened so they don't spend time tightening the same thing twice. I have been an alignment tech and I can tell you that I am a perfectionist and it usually took me a good hour to perform a perfect four wheel alignment and I could get each wheel spot on to +-0.1 degrees
Where do i go for a someone to rotate and change a tire i got ripped off at my subaru dealer where i bought a new subaru and at 14,000 miles said i needed new tires and a wheel alinment. Im in a $2,000.00service plan. So had to go along tires looked good to me . And now my new tires are always needing air
Jesse, you nailed it.
I am a master certified technician. I have aligned thousands of cars.
Your alignment was not adjusted. Not at all. Look at the left side toe before and after. Do you see that the left side is also moved .004 to the right? All the "technician" did was bump the steering to the right. This moved both tires to the right bringing them both into what the machine thinks is aligned.
When you see the numbers in green that indicates the steering is within the manufacturers specifications. Red indicates they are outside of those specifications.
The alignment technician could have made an adjustment of .004 degrees if he had wanted to, it IS possible. But he didn't he just bumped the tire to the right moving the steering to the right and took a snapshot.
Most of the so called alignment technicians have no real idea of what they are doing. They simply turn wrenches until the numbers are green. If you actually gave they a test asking them to describe what, Caster, Camber and Toe are referring to and how they affect tire wear and vehicle steering, they would fail miserably.
Thanks for explanation Tom!!
The guy that made the video has no clue. You sir are exactly correct.
I went to a dealership to get my inspection sticker and the guy said that my headlight was out but they could change it for $30. I was like "funny, it was working this morning. Well, I have a new headlight at home so I'll just take it home, replace the bulb, and bring it right back." I popped the hood and found that the headlight wire had just been removed and tucked up behind my battery.
Lmao
Damn 😂
I'm a female. I never sit in the waiting room. I stand outside acting like I'm on the phone, while I'm watching every move they make. Because 1 time I went for a radiator flush. Never happened. They lied to my face.
Never trust them.I do my own work.I can't trust them.
I owned an alternator/starter rebuild shop for 15 years and most of my customers were repeats as we gave the parts back to the customers afterwards and did the tests in front of them. If we needed lest parts to repair the unit I would drop the quoted price to reflect it. We also have various levels of the repairs too. I almost always replaced the brushes and bearings as part of the costs. Honesty was a great selling tool. I had customers come from as far as 75-80 miles away because they knew I wouldn’t screw the over.
25 years ago I owned a Mercedes. On that car I had free services up to 100 000km* (*of course without consumables and wearables like oil, brakes and so on). At 50 000km they changed a wheel bearing without notifying me in advance. I asked for the old bearing and they told that had allready gone into the trash, but then they tried to tell me that it was so bad that it would have fallen appart in the next few km and they had to chenge it for safety reasons...yeah...no, not really...I had no problems up to that point with noises or whatsoever with this bearing. So I told them; no contract, no old defective bearing, well, that means no money. I gave them the choice of chenging it back to the old one but they decided just to leave the new one in. At the end they didn't got me, but if they get just every second custommer that is to much..
Then the next free oil change on that car: I off course went to anotheer Mercedes dealer. I left the car and went away. 5 minutes later they called. He told me i needed new brakes all around. Price (25 years ago) over 1400$. I was a bit surprised and asked why exactly they have to be changed, so he explained me that the pads are completely worn down and the rotors are at the manufacturers minimal spec. Hmmm, I was more than surpreised so I asked him to explain me how this can be...because one week before, I changed from summer too winter tires and while doing that I looked at the pads. They where at around 70% in the front, 80% at the back, so how can it be that these are worn down within a week??? He didn't expect that I knew how worn the pads where, but then he started with well the pads are ok, but the rotors are (now) below the minimum...and normaly we need to do both together...and for most customers it doesn't makes sense to have the car in for service and then come back in one or twotausend km to change the brakes...so we normaly do it for the coinvenience of the customer. I then told him to just leave my brakes alone and do the oil change and that's it. But he wasn't finished yet. He then started on the security line...look, if you drive and in two or three weeks you kill a child becaus your brakes are faulty you would regret not to have done the brakes today, wouldn't you...now I was really surprised, or should I say pissed off? After I had swallowed that he wanted to feel me guilty not spending that money, I just told him to put on these wheels and leve my car alone. I'd be there in 5 minutes and pick it up and have somebody else do the work on my car including the oil chenge. He then finally agreed to just do the oil change, I went home and drove this pads and rotors for another 40000km (in the swiss alps, what in combination with an automatic transmision quite hard to brakes is) and changed them then for not even 400$ and the rotors where still a hair over the manufacturers minimum spec.
Since then I allways do everything I can myself. There it used to have great mechanics around, unfortunately nowadays the good ones who did a great job for a decent amount of money are probably all getting old and retire...so at least my experiences
I used to buy my tires from a Firestone store. It would tick me off that I would sit in the waiting area for nearly two hours before they would come out with a list of everything they found wrong with the car, and haven’t even started to change the tires. Finally I just started buying the tires only and take them to a local gas’s station that had them put on in less than thirty minutes and charged me a fraction of the cost at Firestone with out pushing valve stems and all that other crap. I appreciate videos like this. Keep up the good work.
I always put correction marker on nuts and threads which are needed to be adjusted before I leave the car for any kind of work catches them every time,but photograph some of the marks prior to taking it in .
That was done on a Hunter alignment machine, which I'm very familiar with. What I noticed was the "total toe" never changed @ .19. The L side was .07 and the R was .16 originally. The spec was .10 on each side for a total of .20. The only thing that would have happened if they did nothing was maybe have the steering wheel off-center on a straight road. You can clearly seen the steer ahead is off in the before measurement. All the tech did was move the steering wheel slightly to the right and "VOILA"! It's in spec!😆
I totally agree, I have this problem after getting a "wheel alignment". the steering wheel is not straight. so disappointed....
Worked at Tire America for 3 years in management. This is super common. All that is done is a slight turn of the steering wheel. If you notice on the after spec, the toe changed on the left wheel by the exact amount that the right was repaired. The wheel was simply moved back. This was a big problem at our shop. I tried to get several people fired for pulling this stunt. Finally got one guy fired and immediately another store hired him. Can't win.
Also, to screw with camber or caster all you have to do is loosen the alignment head from the rim enough to get what you need. Save that as the before. Put it back, bam alignment is done.
I have not had a vehicle aligned on any car I have owned in 25 years because I know I am most likely going to get ripped off.
The obvious item to check for a poor wheel alignment would be the old tires! Inner or outer tread wear CAN be a sign on toe in, or out alignment. Fact, if the old tires are wearing evenly across the entire tread width, there is VERY likely no issues with the alignment. Great video.
Exactly!
Did alignments for gm dealer for 25yrs if your lucky at tire shops they will set toe and tracking and center steering wheel usually they do nothing they don't want your tires to last they sell tires if tires wear out quickly they have insurance to cover replacement they win either way
Not what happened. Left went from 0.03 to 0.07 (+0.04) and right went from 0.16 to 0.12 (-0.04). What actually happened is much simpler than a hammer: slightly turn the steering wheel from true center and print the before spec, then center the steering wheel and print the after spec. They did literally nothing, which is why total toe didn't change, and why steer ahead did change.
I'm glad for my dad's wisdom. He always told me unless you saw unusual wear on the tires, don't buy into an alignment. He had a work vehicle that needed an an alignment one time, so he showed me what to look for. Valuable lesson...
Exactly. Unless they can show you unusual or excessive wear before removing the tires, you’re better off not getting one.
I was actually given a “free” alignment once from a shop I thought I could trust. The steering wheel was crooked when I drove away. It took the tech 2 tries to get it back to where it was when I brought it in. Needless to say, I didn’t pay for the alignment nor ever return.
If you knew how to read alignments, which I don't expect the average car owner to do, you will see that total toe did not change. They just turned the steering wheel to move the tires 0.04 degrees. That is why left toe and steer ahead also changed 0.04 degrees. You were scammed and you have it in writing. I would be back to that shop and get a refund on the whole bill.
I'm an ASE certified tech,brother all they did was turn the steering wheel to make it look "off",then nudged back to get it back in spec,witnessed many times.
Me too, and you are 100% correct :) or just pushed the wheels a bit to the left :P
@@axle.australian.patriot yep....
4:02 You don't know if they replaced tire pressure monitor kits? Why not ask for old parts?
They could easily grab some from any used pile. That's not an accurate way to check either. But good attempt.
Better still, look at the valve stem. Is it new and shiny? And, he's in a garage...
I work at a shop. We don’t do that. Let it be known, it’s not all shops that do this
Completely Correct
I purchased my 4 new tires recently from Costco from the beginning the explained we do not do alignments!! I said ok I’ll take it to my shop new Michelin tires
If a car is in spec, we don't sell an alignment.
We had a minor recall on my wife's Minivan, and we took it back to the dealership where we bought it. When we went to pick it up, they said the brake pads were unsafe to drive with less than 10% of the pads left and would need rotors also.
It would be a total of $800. I phoned my usual mechanic of twenty years. He checked his records and told me he had done a brake job on my wife's minivan two months prior. I declined their offer, then they said they couldn't legally let the vehicle out of the shop in that unsafe condition or they would be liable. Another call to my lawyer and a few words from him, and I was on my way to my guy's shop. He checked and the pads were almost new. Not only did they lose a customer, but also my company's fleet sales.
I had a friend who went through a similar bs, the VW dealership refused to let him have his car back because his safety check was expired, so he just got in his car & drove off!
I've done alignments 15 years. I've seen this at Goodyear. The before measurements the steering wheel was turned to the left, then straightened for the current measurements. No alignment was done, the machine was manipulated to make it look like an alignment was done.
I was just going to comment the same thing. The total toe is the same.
Sorry to say there are thousands of shops and you can't keep the bags tech out of the industry. But I work for Dunn tire and if you think the alignment wasn't done then call corporate and they can pull video for your alignment and check to see if it was done. Every bay has a camera. I've seen techs fired for not doing a service that they said they did. Dunn Tire doesn't stand for it.
Shops that i worked at doing wheel alignments, when its barely requiring adjustment we would just do those minor adjustments for free. Its not that serious. Its better to build relationships with customers to have them for long run than to do quick scams like that.
I was working in a dealership on the lube rack when the boss told me to do their standard 60,000 mile check. I fond nothing needing any immediate attention. I found some VERY slight seepage on the rear differential. That was it. I noted the slight seepage and said "Does not need immediate attention" giving the owner the option if they wanted to keep it immaculately clean. The boss read my report and came storming out before I got it off the rack. Of COURSE there was something wrong, there ALWAYS is" he was saying. "These engines are noted for intake manifold gaskets leaking so it needs an intake manifold gasket!". "No. to is not leaking at this time". He sneered and looked so he could prove me wrong. He could not find a leak. "Then it needs an accessory belt tensioner". He checked that, it was fine. "OK, then, we have to get him to go for the seal on the rear pinion". My report said it was not necessary AT THIS TIME which means it might change in the future. Boss grabs my written report and tells me he will 'fix' my report..... and turns around to find the customer has walked up behind him. Well, that did not end up well and I was looking for a job the next day........... I considered it worth it.
I noticed that your car was .012" on the right side after the alignment (vs .016"), but was .007" afterwards on the left, when it was .003" before, which seems an awful lot like they literally just turned the steering wheel a hair, or re-zeroed the measuring pads and retook the alignment measures to get the right numbers.
In Italy when you install new tires the shop does for free allinement. It's standard.
This is such a shame; it is for this reason that I rarely ever leave my car anywhere. I wait and watch.
I took my daughter and her car to a Jiffy Lube for a state inspection - it was a ‘teaching moment’ where I wanted her to understand the process. A few minutes later, someone comes to us with an air filter in hand. He proceeds to ‘suggest’ that we might want to replace it. I immediately recognized the filter as the one I had replaced 2 days earlier - EXCEPT that it had a sprinkling of what I knew was dirt from the ground (right alongside their building)! I took hold of the filter, examined it, turned it over, tapped it on the ground to remove the loose dirt, all the while telling him that this was not a part of a state inspection and that I had replaced this filter 2 days ago. I then asked if he had removed it properly or if he forced the box open as I walked out to the car and replaced it myself while chiding him for removing it improperly and intentionally throwing dirt on it and trying to sell me something I didn’t need. I didn’t curse or yell (I wanted to), but I did say ‘you should be ashamed of yourself for disparaging your reputation in such a way - just to sell a $20 air filter’! I doubt that your parents brought you up to lie to people - I know mine didn’t - nor did I raise my children that way. And today, of all days, I brought my daughter here to get acquainted with your shop…
He sheepishly stood and listened to my rant - then, just as sheepishly, apologized.
They finished the inspection - and, no-charged me.
It turned into much more of a teaching moment for my daughter than either of us expected.
I work at a tire shop and a customer was missing a lug nut. I gave them new for FREE ! Didn’t want anything for just told them they missing one and I replaced it. They were so grateful! So you can get things for free. 😊
lol
I don’t expect for free bot honestly I am all about. Well done .
It doesn't matter how much someone charges if it's an honest. I fix computers and most of the time I know the problem before I get to where I'm going and its usually simple.. The minimum I charge is $150 and I do the job within 15 minutes. If its honest you pay for the knowledge, not how easy or how hard a job is.
I'm OCD enough about my tires that if I select a certain tire and they do a substitution without communicating/checking with me first I'm ornery enough that unless it's a significant and obvious upgrade that I like and am happy about I'm gonna tell them to kick rocks, put my old tires back on and cancel the sale. I'll go elswhere! Don't pull that shit on me...
Same here if I ask for a specific Tire for whatever reason I want that tire not a substitution whether it's an upgrade or not whether it's free or not. For them to do it without communication that's unacceptable. I can understand if they said in advance oh we can upgrade your tires to this for free do you want this done or not then a person could decide to do that or not. But why would they want to do that in the first place unless they don't have the tire that you want. Then you find a place that has the tires you want
I went to Town Fair tire in Seabrook N.H. about the same story. Was shown the alignment was off. Said ok do it. Watched on their security customer cam. men get onto the back of my truck all at same side out near the bumper. 10Min later the drive it out hand me the printout say all set. I looked under the truck nothing had been moved no wrench marks. Went back in told the manager what I found wanted my money back, was told no. Called corporate got my money refunded & They cleaned out the employees. I am a retired mechanic with 43 years under my belt.
Have a low mileage Altima. The dealer was recommending all kinds of servicing. I asked him why they sell vehicles of such poor quality that they need so many repairs.
I've worked on and off for dealerships my whole adult life. The scams from the salesman, the sales managers, to the service manager, to the service writers. The S-+t I used to see, and hear, would make peoples jaws drop. I've even listened to sales guys laughing about how hard they screwed a customer. I've seen service writers fired for literally doing their job. Fired only because they weren't pushing and scamming people into buying things they didn't need. Most dealerships, tire shops, etc have massive overhead, most employees don't make much money. The managers, and GMs are the only ones that make REAL money, and do the least amount of work. Their job is to push everyone else around to make THEM money.
Well said and spot on.
@@cardo1111 The worst one was a Dodge dealership I worked at. The best one was a Honda dealership. They all do it though. It got really bad during the pandemic.
Dude this is stupid. First off. The total toe was 0.19⁰. it STAYED 0.19⁰. The only thing that happened, was after the roll back, caster sweep, and steering wheel level, they stood in front of the car and gently pressed on the driver side tire, from inside to out. It changed BOTH sides 0.04⁰ and that's why the total toe stayed the same at 0.19⁰. You went from -0.03⁰ driver and -0.16 passenger (0.19⁰ total) to -0.07⁰ driver and -0.12⁰ passenger (0.19⁰ total). No hammers were involved. Just a guy leaning against the inside of your driver's side tire.
Secondly, your TPMS.... Regular valve stems are free. TPMS kits aren't. And here's another kicker. 205/60R16 sounds like you have a steel wheel. And a One-Piece TPMS sensor is made of aluminum and the sensor is integrated into the valve stem. And it has a rubber grommet on the inside of the valve stem hole and an aluminum crush washer for the outside to help the aluminum nut fasten the sensor perfectly perpendicular to the hole. Unless you have aluminum 16" wheels on your Kia, your steel wheel is holding the heat from your brakes and your aluminum TPMS is dissipating heat 15 times faster than your steel wheel, and the rubber grommet reaches the point of failure from heat fatigue faster than a regular valve stem. You needed those. Not a scam. 60k on a TPMS sensor built on Korean standards? Yeah, it's time to replace. And they can charge whatever they want because you have a right to say no.
Yes, they ripped you off on your alignment. Shame on DUNN TIRE. I still think your investigation was far-fetched and made you seem like you never worked with those products or conducted those services.
Comparing numbers before and after clearly says that "before" measurement was made improperly. They are two exactly the same alignments (within the measurement tolerance) but with the steering wheel turned slightly to the left on the "before" measurement. And "after" is the correctly made measurement with the steering wheel in the neutral position. It's very simple way to mock the failure and then "fix" it
The year they first came out I bought a new 4 cylinder Honda Civic. Drove it a while, brought it back for the 2000 mile check. They had given me a list of all that entailed, and I had purchased a marking pen and marked every bolt/nut that they would have to touch. Left the car with them, and when I came back to pick it up they proudly told me all of the work they had done. I opened the hood and started checking my marks, and most of the markings were broken, but not all. So I asked the Service Manager "How did they adjust the valves without removing the valve cover?" and showed him the valve cover bolts. He apologized, took the car back in the service bay, there was some yelling, and a while later my car came back out. He apologized again, changed my bill to zero dollars, and all was good. As long as he worked there I got first class service from then on.
I got this alignment report while sitting at the desk completing paperwork for oil change. Fortunately, I didn’t have the hour and a half to “fix” the .20 frontal toe issue. While sitting in the waiting room, I watched this video and got 100% smarter. Thank you. While I’m here, I think I’ll ask to see my shiny new air filter before driving off the lot, too. Maybe even ask for the old one as a souvenir. 😬
I used to be a VW/Audi tech and did alignments. I used to hate doing them because it was such a pain to set up the machine. 90% of the time spent was the "checking" and we charged for it whether you needed any adjustments or not. Most dealership techs work on "flat rate", which means they get paid a certain amount of time for a job regardless of how long it takes. In our case, an alignment paid 1.5 hours to check and the adjustments were more time if they were needed. There is no way they could have gotten us to do checks for free. The first time I heard of this checking alignment for free deal at tire shops, I was really surprised and glad I wasn't the tech having to waste my time checking the alignment on a car that I just took 4 evenly worn tires off of.
But, these shops probably pay their techs by the hour, so the techs don't care. The shop is gambling that if they spend their tech's time checking the alignment, they will get enough cars that are enough out of alignment that they can charge the 99 bucks and make up for the wasted time. So yeah the tech probably leaned on your tire, got the thing to go green and hit print. Those machines are incredibly accurate and just bumping the car can make them change. Like I said - it's a big pain in the butt and I hated it. Part of the reason I got out of that trade was all this underhanded stuff that goes on and the up-sales and being pushed to sell stuff customer's didn't really need. That tech probably knew that you would have been fine and had no tire wear with that little bit of tow, but he was probably trained to sell that alignment if that machine had any red to make up for the time checking....Wow that was really long winded but this struck a nerve for me as the guy on the other end of it for years.
One of the biggest mistake high schools made, at least mine, was taking auto shop out of the curriculum. I knew more about cars by the time I was a senior in high school than most people I know today. There are so many scams out there that take advantage of people who have no clue about how their car works. You can ask them what dress their favorite celebrity got married in and they'll know, but you can ask them a basic question about their car and they will stand there with a blank look.
Okay so, your close but a rim doesn't turn on its centre as it's got offset which gives you your scrub Radius when combined with the SAI and Caster.
What they did was turn the steering wheel to equalise your toe and hit print.
NO HAMMER NEEDED. SIMPLY THEY NEVER ADJUSTED ANYTHING. THE TOTAL TOE STAYED AT .19 DEGREES SO THEY JUST TURNED THE STEERING WHEEL TO THE RIGHT A TAD. LEFT SIDE TIRE MOVED .04 AND RIGHT SIDE -.04.
I said the exact same thing, but used like 10 times more words than you. lol. No need to yell though. 😛
Sorry. Lol. Didn't mean to yell. There was over 1k comments and wanted it to be seen. I've been a mechanic and have done over 25k alignments in my career so I know all the alignment angles and terminology.
A lot of ripoffs out there, I am so glad I work on my own vehicles.
My father caught the local Dealer on work not performed. He put a dab of model car paint on the bolts that had to be removed or adjusted. He checked the car and remarked to the service manager "you guys are good - you even aligned the cracks in the paint at each nut/bolt. He called the state in on that repair and the dealership was shut down for a month.
You need to complain to Corporate headquarters! They will revoke his dealership license and shut him down permanently. Big corporations don't like their good names smurred by unethical individuals. 🙏
I am long since retired from the auto repair business. While I did general repair, I was specifically a front end and alignment specialist. So. the video caught my interest. It often takes more time to drive a vehicle onto the alignment rack, attach the alignment equipment, and check the specifications than it takes to actually make the adjustments in many cases. The "free" alignment check is a marketing tool or strategy to uncover needed additional work. It is not a scam. And it costs the shop time and money. Now, if the work is charged for and not done, that is a scam.
That's exactly what I expect a front end and alignment specialist would say.
Exactly Alan!
Did you even watch the whole video? 6 thousands of inch adjustment!
I take it you have never done an alignment before. An average car .04* tie rod adjustment is 100% possible, .01* is also 100% possible, .04* slop in the steering is also possible. the average outer tie rod is close to the bead of a stock sized wheel, the average car has a tie rod with a 16TPI adjustment thread so one rotation of the inner tie rod would get you .0625" of travel so about 30* on the inner tie rod would get you your .006" of travel. The best way to tell is just look at the tie rod jam just and see if there is evidence a wrench has touched it. it only takes a few seconds to adjust a single tie rod, you pay $99 for the value of having your alignment fixed not some guy working on your car for an hour.
Pro tip, next time you take a car there, don't answer the phone when they call, if the alignment is slightly off like it was in the case and the car is on the rack and you don't answer they will just fix it because spending 30 seconds adjusting a tie rod is better than the car tying up the rack waiting for you to call back, or taking the car off the rack and then having you call back and say you want the alignment performed then they have to put it back on. This way they will either say the alignment was good when you call in or say they need to adjust some things, in that case just decline the service and you will get a free alignment with your free alignment check, If you accept they will just sit on your ticket for a few hours and call you back and add $99 to your bill.
This man is 100% correct.
Just saw this video. As a retired brake and alignment tech, this kind if crap pisses me off. I worked for years at a major tire retailer and the famous alignment check was standard operation, BUT i would never charge a customer for something like that, thatbplace is an obvious rip-off. We as techs couldn't do anything about the cost of the sensor kit, but they are needed, especially in areas that have a lot of inclement weather. It really bothers me when businesses do stuff like this because it makes it harder to sell to the people who really need the alignment done
My car was pulling to the right driving at 55mph got new tires and alignment literally now the car goes flipping straight but it cost me a flipping arm and a 🦵 leg
Sensors aren’t needed I’ve never had tpms sensors in any of my cars. It’s an unnecessary luxury.
@@Username-2 don't know where you're from, but in the US it's mandatory on all vehicles after 2007, my comment about needing them is referring to the rebuild kit, not the sensors. I don't like them either, but it helps people like my wife who can't look at a tire and see if it's low or not
@@darrellgarlough7140 I live in the US. Yes I know they come on the car mandatory but there is no reason to keep them when getting new tires. I always tell them no I don’t want them, and cover the light on my dash. No offense to your wife but if someone can’t check their tire pressure occasionally they shouldn’t be driving.
someone might have pointed this out already but it appears that the steering wheel was not straight in the before pic (steer ahead) and it was moved in the after pic. The total toe was the same before and after. The left front was moved in/right and the right front was moved out/right. so there "alignment" was to slightly bump the steering wheel to the right, thus fixing the "steer ahead" and the right front toe. the left front moved as well but it within specs before and after. Having said this, please don't think all automotive repair shops are like this. now go out and find a technician you can trust. good luck.
I do my own oil changes and years ago I needed an A/C belt. I brought my car in after I recently changed the oil and had a different shop replace the transmission fluid. I got a call later asking if I wanted an oil change and transmission service because the fluids looked dark to them. I declined and never went back
All they did on the alignment was turn the steering wheel to the right to move the .04 and keep both sides in spec. That's why your left toe went from .03 to .07 . This kind of crap is what makes it hard to trust any auto shops. Im a mechanic, and I've seen it before but that's not how I do business.
I accidently landed on your channel/video and so happy I did. I can't thank you enough for your integrity and doing the right thing. Your very unique in today's society where many people and organizations try and cheat each other financially and through greed. Thank you Pete!!
You're wrong! The scam is worse than you described. When the Toe on the right wheel went from .16L to .12L (0.04 change to the right), the Toe on the left wheel went from .03R to .07R (0.04 change to the right). This means they didn't hit your wheel with a mallet. All they did was turn the steering wheel slightly right. Notice your Total Toe did not change. Nothing changed. They just didn't have your steering wheel perfectly centered.
True! Just reviewed the pictures and you're right, all they did was move the steering wheel.
The other big tell is steer ahead. Meaning the wheels weren't even centered when the snapshot was taken. Centered the wheels... Viola the problem was solved.
I went in for tires on an old farm truck that was going the crusher 2 days later ( tire were for another truck) but this truck wasn’t on the road being used at the time and had matching wheels size. So i drove in this total “pos” for tires and they offered a “free safety check”. They came out 2 hrs later with 4 tires and a laundry list of repairs needed, or they weren’t going to let me drive it home!
I read through their laundry list of shocks ball joints tie-rod ends, steering box adjustment, lights, brakes, and on and on! But never did they mention the cracked frame at the steering box, rotted out floors broken frame mounts or the crack that was present between the cab and bed of the truck! Their bill was $8500.00 for all needed repairs! I said no thanks, pointed to my roll back outside, and told them that they had missed major safety issues and if they proceeded to keep my truck they were in for more trouble then they were expecting! Needless to say the shop called the police to report me for driving an unsafe vehicle, wanted me to pay for the tires, which I did, but still insisted that all other repairs had to be done by their shop before it could be released! Police came shop manager stated I was threatening him and the shop, and he had it on video! So I looked at the officer, and asked to see the video ( that didn’t exist) with a big smile on my face. I told the police officer what was going on, the plans for the tires, and the fact that my roll back was parked outside and this truck wasn’t going on the road ever!
The police officer informed the manager the truck needed to be released. Five months later shop is under investigation for misrepresenting repairs, submissions of double billing and money laundering!
Can you say karma is a b!
I doubt they said you couldn't drive you car home. That's illegal. Stop making up stories.
@@Normal1855 not illegal to not allow an unsafe vehicle on the road, illegal to not release it after the bill has been paid for the actual service rendered, 4 tires mounted and balanced! This vehicle was towed in, and parked down the lot, and was being towed out as well.
@@Normal1855 They probably did, I've worked at dealerships, independent ships where they tried this. They lost everytime....
They didn't make an adjustment, and the car didn't need an alignment, and you didn't need to look under the car to determine this: Total toe before the "alignment" was .19 degrees, and after the "adjustment" the total toe was still .19 degrees.
They turned the steering wheel enough to push the right side tire into the red, printed the alignment, then turned the wheel back to bring it into the green and printed it again.
Now, alignments nowadays take some time to pull the car on the rack, set the heads up on the car, compensate the heads, and do the caster swing to get the readings. The actual adjustments (if it's only the toe that needs to be adjusted), only takes a few minutes, so the fact that they called a few minutes later is not proof by itself that they didn't adjust anything. The real proof is that the total toe didn't change, and that your steering wheel wasn't crooked when you brought it in. You should go back and let them know you knew, and give them the link to this video! LOL
Before you replace your tires, look at each tire for tread wear and that will tell you if you have an issue, It should wear evenly across the tire in general.
I had a dealership attempt to sell me a new transfer case for $4000, for a nasty vibration. The service manager almost got me. I drove away to a independent repair shop; repaired for $60! A U joint needed replaced. $60 included a u joint and labor. I tore one hell of a strip of that service manager. I also ended all future work and future car purchases at that dealer forever.
Good for you! I agree. The only thing else to do is tell everybody about their practices.
Hm, what nobody here seems to have a problem with is that they mounted other tires than he ordered, without asking him first. I would have said, take 'em off again, I do want the ones I told you, and if you can't get them, I'll go somewhere else. Doesn't matter if they gave him a little more expensive ones for the original quoted price. Before I buy tires, I do research on tire test results, and make my decision of which brand I buy based on that. A tire that costs only a little more might have worse performance results...
and woh setiting price the the tire shop, the manufactures RRP price ? any one inflate the price of something they are selling, in fact it the cornerstone business by one price sell same price+(you costs), what ever that is
I think what's happening is they did so much nefarious stuff people can't keep up with it all as they get focused on one aspect.
I'm with you. Don't do what I didn't ask for or you're working for free.
Very true great point! I think we'd all be better off with a little searching and comparing.
Agreed. I'd be pissed. I would have demanded they put my old tires back on and got the hell out of there.
Yes you can make that fine of an adjustment on the alignment rack but they didn't. They turned the steering wheel slightly, took the before snapshot, then turned it back and took the after snapshot. You can tell because the left side was .03 and right was .16 but after left was .07 and right was .12, the total didn't change. The alignment was fine they just nudged the steering wheel to shift the measurement to one side.
Torbox, you are absolutly correct,
As a former truck mechanic and fleet manager, I do most of my own repairs. But some things you can’t do it which means you have to go to a tire shop. I have yet to find a tire shop that was not trying to scam me. But I shut them down pretty quick . The line that I love the most is the line that they use last time I was in trying to buy some tires. They are the experts and they know what’s best for me. My car is too complex for me to understand.
A popular tire chain shop in my area, I "use" to go there religiously until about 15 years ago. Got my new tires with "free" alignment then sales manager tells me they can't do the alignment because ball joints need replacing. Quoted me $1500 bucks to to replace the joints, skipped it - no way. A week later took it to a shop that specialized in alignments that came heavily recommended, 1) I didn't need an alignment and 2) the ball joints were fine.
Yup, plenty of scammers and liars in this business...
"Upgrading" the tires without having the customer's consent is also a big issue. Granted some don't pay close attention to their tire design and specs. But others care significantly what tires they are buying.
I'm not sure if he really understands wheel alignment but on the before and after printout the front total toe is 0.19⁰. since the total toe didn't change but left and right toe did change, all the technician did was move the steering wheel slightly so that both front wheels read within specification. That also explains how they were able to do the alignment so quickly. To clarify, I started working as a suspension and alignment specialist (I only do suspension and alignment) in 1978 and continued to do so for 42 years. In fact, I've seen many alignment mechanics that don't even know how to read their own printout.
I would like to add that you can adjust the toe at the tie rod by as little as .001⁰. A hammer is not required to make small toe adjustments. Toe is a critical tire wear angle and has the smallest tolerances of any alignment angle. So, this guy is dishing out some bad information.
Agreed. I'm not a mechanic but I do most of my own repairs. It is definitely possible to move the adjustment nut to get his .04 back in spec. Probably less than a 1/4 turn. And if car still on rack it only takes a few seconds.
Be careful giving advice on a subject you do not understand, Pete's.
@@amber78100 And you would see if the Jam nut was moved .
I also had a problem with that same "tire dealership". They calmly and cooly told me (in front of 6 people in the waiting room), that 2 of my tire pressure sensors were bad and needed replacement (at $70.00 each). I looked at the "service manager" and calmly and cooly replied... That's weird because my Jeep does not have a tire pressure monitoring system on it and those rims don't have tps transmitters in them! Them I asked him... how many of these customers sitting here are you going to advise that they also need something done? The "service manager" got extremely embarrassed and started stuttering about he must have gotten my service order and someone else's mixed up. I asked him why, if that was the case, did he specifically refer to the service order and identify my Jeep Wrangler and my name? He got really upset and told me to pay for my tires and leave his store immediately... "I was heartbroken and devastated by that Ha Ha Ha"
What location was this?
@@6AM_YT Cattaraugus County, NY
I got a "free" diagnostic at AAA which ended up costing me 300.00. My rule now is, if a garage "finds" something, I being it to another shop. Years ago, I brought my car to Midas muffler and from that point on, I needed new mufflers/ repairs regularly. Once I switched shops, I never had another problem.
Unfortunately that's a common story
No adjustments were made on this vehicle . I do alignments for a living and have printed out many printouts . All the tech did was mount the heads got a before measurement , banged the wheel so the After measurement was all green and charged you . You can clearly see what he did . If this was a real alignment the toe should have been perfect both sides not .07 on the left and . 012 on the right . The final clue to the rip off is the total toe did not change again showing he did no adjustments , just banged the wheel to show green . I hate these types of situations because it gives a bad name to guys like me who make their living by treating customers with respect and honesty
They didn't use a hammer... they simple nudged the steering wheel a bit. You can see that the 0.04° change that gets it into spec, happened on BOTH sides in the same direction!
I have worked at a dealership for 30 years the alignment check takes about 5 minutes because it is driver over equipment. We do alignment included with the tire replacement. The reason they did the TPMS repair kit because if they don’t and it starts leaking you’re going to yell and scream now you have a leak after they replaced the tires.
Went to a Quick Oil change and they came out and said my air filter was bad, I told them I replaced it 3 weeks earlier,
he was looking for a place to hide..
And that's what you get for going to a quick-lube place. Take it to a dealer.
@@tech653 Dealers are crooks too, took my Acura to the dealer I bought it from and they said I needed new front brakes for $800.00.
I only use OEM brake parts and they said they didnt have them in stock. I ordered online, took the wheels off and found I had about 60% left. You cant trust anyone..
@@Rick-tb4so You have just had some really bad luck, I guess. I've been working for dealerships for the past 25+ years, and every service manager I have worked for harps on not selling something the customer doesn't need. That's the reason I've been so successful over the years. Once my customers learn I'm not going to rip them off, they trust me. I have people that drive from more than 150 miles away for me to work on their vehicle. That's the way this business should be. People screaming about one or two bad experiences makes it really hard to attract new customers. Find another dealer. Unfortunately, that may be the only resolution.
Yes! The automatic need for an alignment with new tires was tried with me. When I pushed back they backed down. P.S., I’ve gone 48,000 miles with no need for an alignment. Tracks perfectly.
The car tracking perfect doesn’t necessarily mean that your alignment is perfect. Hitting potholes in the road can knock a vehicle out of alignment. And while nowadays many if not most cars do not have adjustable camber or caster. What you do if tires are wearing etc. Is to buy a camber kit or whatever component or kit necessary to get your readings right.
@@johnrussell2918 well, from my driver point of view, it’s good! And yes, I’m cognizant of things that can knock it out of alignment and avoid them. Tires wearing perfectly.
Thank you for sharing this. Very shady and disappointing to know corrupt places like this are taking advantage over non-car people.
The gentleman of this video is doing the same thing by taking advantage of non car people. From the perspective of someone that doesn't understand how alignment machine work, can me jarring. But this video is very misleading
Opinions vary
Hi Pete , I don't think they have used the mallet Hummer at all, instead if you look at the sheet, the right toe is 0.16 and the left is 0.03 and after the adjustment the right front has gone to 0.12 and the left to 0.07 . DEFINITE CONCLUSION FOR THE 4 MINUTES WORK THEY HAVE SIMPLY TURNED THE STEERING WHEEL SLITLY TO THE LEFT!!!!That's why you are quite right on suspecting such a job so fast but SO ACCURATE !! But if you look properly at both sheets you'll find that the .04 discrepancy you'll find it exactly on to the LEFT!!!! Are they super naturals doing wheel alignments with MICROMETERS?? CIAO
They did not even hit it with a hammer ! total toe did not change from .19 just look at left toe, it went from .03 to .07 and right side went from .16 to .12 and the total toe did not change all they did is turn the steering wheel until all went green (in spec) and hit the print button
that is typical of tire shops, i have been a mechanic for over 35 years and have gone to the mat with more than one tire shop
So as an honest alignment tech with lots of experience on the hunter equipment they used.. they did absolutely nothing here.. the steering wheel was not perfectly centered when they took the before measurements. They hopped in the car turned they wheel 2 human hairs to the right and then clicked print .if they made any adjustment at all total toe would have changed and it did not.
While growing up, our family was on a trip out west. We stopped for gas and the attendant was looking at the rear of the car. I was sitting in the car, reading a comic when I heard some rattling from the back. I got out and here was the attendant holding an oil pump can, trying to hide it. He put it down and walked over to my father and said it "looks like you have a blown shock. You really need to replace it and should do both." I walked over, picked up the oil can and told my dad the guy had just put it down. My dad looked underneath and told the attendant he was going to call the company (Humble Oil, now Exxon). The attendant screamed get out of here, we piled into the car and left. My dad did call the company later than day, pointing out he owned stock in the company. When we came back though that town a month later on the way home, the station was "closed for repairs". Turned out it was a company location and they were sending in a new manager and looking for all new staff. This was in the late 60's and it taught me to buy at least 1 share in a company that is ripping you off and then call investor relations. You can get results!
If my tires are wearing out even and the vehicle is tracking straight, no alignment!
Your Total Toe never changed. All they did was straighten the front wheels a small amount to put the rf in spec. No adjustments were performed.
First, YES you were ripped off. I teach at a local college and specialize in alignments. Is it possible to tighten up that tolerance? yes. Its not as hard as you are explaining it. THE PROBLEM is the "TOTAL TOE". That number never changed which tells me they slightly turned the wheel to make the right wheel show it was out of spec. All they did was turn the wheel back and said they adjusted it. They completely ripped you off for $100.
And that's done in 2 minutes including the paper coming out of the printer
@@carlitosgy6 like i said, this was a rip off. nothing was done except moving the steering wheel very slightly to look like they did adjustments. Thats why you look at "total toe" to see if they actually adjusted anything
@@MrG-wk6jw I'm a shop owner and do alignment, that's exactly what happened
I spent 20 years managing a tyre garage. First off the internet is dumb, tyres get ordered that are not in stock so a better brand is fitted. Thats an upgrade. The fitting kit you showed was not one for your car its a snap on valve with a stem that the sensor fits to. If you dont change these they will leak when the rubber perishes.i have seen thousands. While the wheel and tyre is off its £15 for a new one. If you drive in for one its £40. We always did a free alignment check, if it wasnt out we told them so.if we were busy we just did the adjustment before asking, as its quicker than taking the gauges off and parking up, then waiting for a space to get the car back in. It takes seconds to adjust the track rod end. Undo lock nut, turn rack rod till lazer it on point, the lock it. It was always the dumb mechanics that never had it done, they came back on 6 months moaning tires were bald.
Thank you. Voice of actual reason.
This.
"It takes seconds to adjust the track rod end. Undo lock nut, turn rack rod till lazer it on point, the lock it." This is pure genius. Pure gold. And please tell me, how do you know exactly how much to turn the tie rod? By feel? By your intuition?
@@MM-wp5sp its easy. you put the spanner on, and look at the laser line on the gauges, and turn the tie rod, you see the laser line move. when its where its meant to be. tighten the lock nut. check all the gauges, double check all lock nuts. it was my job for 20 years. btw if the tracking is out it may not wear the edge of the tyre, it can wear evenly across the tire. they just wear quicker and use more fuel. thats why grease monkey mechanics think that cars dont need adjusting. they just make them adjustable for no reason in their minds.
@@MM-wp5sp CLearly someone who's never done an alignment.
The part that upsets me the most is the “tire upgrade” without your (my) permission. I am VERY picky about my tires and carefully choose based on a number of factors, and so if I picked out my perfect tires and they put on something different - even if they THINK they are better - they’ll be retaking them back off!
Same
I agree that's the thing that would have set me off. I would have demanded they put the tires I requested on. I am very particular about what tires I buy as well.
I worked at sears auto center for almost 10 years.
Even if your your alignment is all within spec, hit the tire with a hammer. Shit hit it with your hand. The steering parts all have slight play. That will easily show 0.06 positive or negative. It's way to easy to turn an acceptable measurement to an out of spec number.
And I have seen it many many times.
I've even seen them make a car show out of spec. Record that measurement. Then hit it back the other way to record the "corrected" measurement.
Then it comes to the sales guy to sell it. If they accept the alignment, they are given one printout.
If they decline, they are given a diffrent print out.
Also, the shop time to replace a tiered ALSO INCLUDES a toe adjustment.
If an alignment is also performed, deduct .2 hours.
0.7 R&R tie rod with toe adjust
0.5 R&R tie rod with full alignment (not needed)
Total Toe. That's the key here. It didn't change. You had a little spread on your toe, they turned the wheel to put 1 in the red, then turned it back dead center to put it green again and print the second page. If they'd adjusted anything, the total toe would have changed. All they adjusted was your wallet.
I hate this crap so much. Alignment checks are supposed to be to legitimately help customers and make sure they won't ruin their tires... not to rip them off because you're having a slow week.
Thank you very much for your comment. I am so happy you get it. Unfortunately when I try to help non-car people, the mechanics who do the work scrutinize the video like I'm writing the Haynes manual. I get that too, they want to provide accurate information. The balance between helpful to most, and too technical for most is difficult.
Flat rate. The what’s wrong with this business thing.
Yep, took my car in to the dealership for an oil change because of a $25 off coupon (synthetic). After about a week the car developed a creaking, groaning noise. Took it back for a “diagnostic.” 2 hours and $99 later I was told I needed new front shocks for $1,850. They even did a video showing me what they found. I already did the research and shocks were only $250 each. I told them no, and went to my mechanic. My mechanic quoted me $80p. He called 15 minutes later and said it’s all fixed and didn’t charge me a dime. He told me the dealer didn’t tighten the bolts to the undercarriage brace after they did the oil change! 🤦🏻♂️
You missed it. There is a line on the sheet for "total toe", and it doesn't change. Both sides changed by about the same amount so all they did was turn the steering slightly until both sides were in spec.
This sounds right. Pete should respond. Note that both sides changed EXACTLY the same amount.
If the wear on the tires look even, the car goes straight down the road and does not wander, your alignment is just fine.
This
Exactly this.
At some point people started to fall for the "it's out .00x of a degree, it must be fixed" and shops started to take advantage of it. Is it better if everything is right on the nominal value? Obviously, but people forget alignments were done for decades with a tape measure, strings and whatever else and cars drove down the road just fine without chewing tires up left and right.
My local BMW dealer during a recall appointment did a “complimentary” evaluation of my car. They sent me a well produced video telling me I needed $4800 of work. This consisted of new wiper blades that I replaced 2 months ago, as well as 2 oil cooler gaskets that were replaced 1 year ago as well as brake pads that do not need replacement yet! A total scam!!!