Big surprise! I'm Gary of Sunwaytek the maker of this controller. Thank you for this video! Quite objective and fair. We never heard the mentioned Dpad before from our customers, but we'll study to prevent this. I wish more people could give your voices and help us to make better.
Hey you can send me one and I'll review it! My wife and my cats would love to hear about how much I love/hate/am ok with this controller. Feel free to DM me and I'll tell you where to ship my review copy thanks!
@@utqrs7977 @Sunwaytek Hey send us both one Izzairein Taqris's opinion carries more weight in this world than most. They definitely need a review copy.
3:06 A large amount of people who game on PC do in fact use controllers a lot. Nothing beats a controller in racing games, or games like Dark Souls for example. It's also a lot more intuitive to use a controller in emulators and such.
This controller sounded like a great idea for about the first half of the video. Then, more and more issues got pointed out. I’d try one, but the button not wanting to stay *on* would really bug me because I know I’d manage to accidentally pop it off
Maybe add o-ring to reduce bottom-out distance to make it feels similar to pro controller would improve it further as many players rely on bottom-out feel to register as pressing a button.
@@titaniumwo1f390 As you already know (by your knowledge of the o-ring "mod"), it's used by many people who have mechanical keyboards. That's a fantastic idea as well. Logitech, in my opinion, has the best low profile switches on the market right now, more specifically the best implementation of them. It's entirely possible that someone could desolder the current switches on these controllers and out their own on 🤔, same as if you were modding your own keyboard.
@@suprastevio2264 logitechs romer g switches have a actuation distance of 1.5mm and a bottom out of 3mm. Cherry does make a low profile switch with an actuation distance of 1.2mm and a bottom out of 3.2. but there is so much more choice out there. if they use a standard style switch, i'm sure you can find a replacement that will work well. did anyone ever measure the travel distance of a standard first party controller button?
I purchased one of these a few weeks ago. Build felt really cheap, and it was awkward to use, I prefer to roll my thumb around the 4 face buttons, but that’s not possible with my small hands and the ergonomics of the controller. I do wish they used clicky buttons instead of smooth though, that would create a very nice tactile feel to the controller as a whole. My D-pad was very clicky when going right, but felt a bit more vague going the other directions. There’s a lot that can be improved in the controller, but it was a good idea at heart. Couldn’t recommend it though in its current state :(
I'm all for new unique controllers, but I'm terrified to actually commit to something like this, especially since it's a one-off and I don't see this becoming a new "format" - just switching platforms takes time to readjust my muscle memory and get back in the swing of things
There's clearly a reason for design teams to choose membrane based buttons. I admit the variety it's cool but it seems that mechanical buttons are made for perpendicular presses or a different angle from the finger.
And better is subjective and situational. I find mechanical (or Topre) better for typing, but worse for gaming, for exactly the same reason he mention later in the video. Membrane are on/off with almost no travel, while switches in a mechanical have a bit of travel before activating. It's incredibly comfortable to type on a mechanical keyboard, and they can sound really nice, but a good membrane button like on the Switch Pro controller or the Xbox pad is just hard to beat when gaming.
@Rando I use linear, membrane is still faster. But in the keyboard world, it's way harder to find a good membrane than in the controller world. The only ones I liked were, ironically, made by Cherry.
"PC players only using keyboard and mouse"... meanwhile I have and use controllers/fightsticks from every console on PC. DS4 is my weapon of choice with the 8bitdo adapter on PC.
Yeah most PC gamers use controllers too, that statement was odd. There's just some genres of games that are objectively better with proper analog controls like the sticks and triggers (Racing Games, Flight Simulators, Fighting Games, 3D Platformers, any console ports with bad or no KBM controls, etc.) just as there's a lot of genres that are objectively better with KBM (shooters being the big one, it's near impossible to aim on most console shooters, I have no idea how anyone does it successfully. The one exception of course being Splatoon, the gyro aim gets really dang close to the accuracy of a mouse)
I think mechanical switches is a great idea, and I'm shocked no one's really done it before. But yea, obviously having longer travel isn't ideal. It seems like they didn't spend any time developing it, and just stuck keyboard switches on there without changing it. If they did spend more time, they could get the travel down a bit. A decent, well thought out controller that was mechanical would be super sick
This is something that I always dreamed of. Is not even a case of being better or being more precise, but of being more durable. I am tired of having to try and buy a new membrane for all of the ones a ripped playing.
I've seen this way back on my "adventurous" look up of game controllers. Seems to me pressing mechanical switches with your thumb is kinda... dumb. That's coming from someone with a stupidly overmodded hotswap keyboard with Blue, and also Green switches for extra clack.
Indonesia- As part of the classic devout believer of staggered keyboard, I respect your opinion, but also would like to say that the thumb should only be on top of the space bar. Praise big ass enter, cheri-o.
Subbed for your controller reviews and since you're the only channel I could find seriously reviewing the gyro, compared to other channels just quickly mentioning a controller has them.
In terms of mechanical vs membrane, the membrane isn't referring to the rubber. It is instead referring to little sheets that complete circuits. What a controller does is rubber dome over pcb. Most membrane keyboards use rubber domes (Spare a few like the IBM Model M which uses buckling springs and feels much better than most modern mechanicals).
It's so strange to see another controller using the "sunken" grips like the Steam controller, specially since there doesn't seem to have any reason to be like that.
Hahaha you got my like in the first 30 seconds. Thanks for the review. And love your advertisement skills! Keep doing them, they are the only in-video advertisements I never skip.
Thing is, with keyboards and arcade sticks they are flat and have a hard surface behind them. Youre essentially using the weight of your hand and the surface to push the button. On a handheld controller, you dont have the table behind it or the weight of your whole hand to push the button. This is why a mechanical button, which takes more force to use, is less ideal for a handheld controller.
The thing that surprised me the most from this controller is the stick box. It feels precise and I have noticed little to no snap back issues. I'm debating making this my main controller for Ultimate but the low quality feeling triggers might be a deal breaker.
Metal dome buttons does kinda a hybrid-thing between membran and switches, but with very little travel. Thats why the clicky face buttons on the joy-cons are more reliable than the mushy membran buttons on the pro controller. On the other hand they do an annoying sound when clicked.
Quick Correction: Your Keychron K1 uses a variation of the linear switch, called the Cherry MX Low-profile Red. Now for my opinion: Low-profile Reds have lower travel and faster actuation, and I personally prefer normal Reds or Gateron Yellows for typing instead.
I know this video is 5 months old, but as a PC user, controllers are still a must have for some games. Driving games, fighting games, platformers, beat em ups, even with emulation you’ll need a trusty controller.
I've used one mechanical keyboard one time and I loved it so much. I love clickiness and mechanical feedback, I put metal sticks in my Xbox controller just so I could click them.
One thing I would like to point out "and I do not know if this controller works the same way" is that the use of a mechanical keyboard is yes it takes longer for the buttons to actually be pressed but the speed at which the command goes through is actually faster because a mechanical keyboard has a more direct line than most others. If this is true with this controller then the button press time would not matter as much because you would be getting close to if not faster than you were before. But that would all depend on if the controller used the same principle as a good amount of mechanical keyboards.
Hi Bob, here are some video ideas that I think fit right up your alley for content: - Best batteries to put in your controller - Best Power strip to put your switch charger on - Best lighting to use on your switch when playing in handheld
The absolute best, in my humble opinion; - GP 2100 mAh NiMh AA rechargeable batteries (because they should last more cycles than 2600mAh ones). - A high quality BS 1363 (UK) or CEE 7/4 (EU) power strip with surge protection. - The adapter included with a Switch or Switch Lite, or a high-quality big-brand USB-C one (that passed the "bigclivedotcom" test).
There really isn’t a need to change controllers quickly on a console. Games are specifically made with certain controllers in mind. That’s like judging a watercooled, overclocked PC with an RTX 3090 for its portability.
@@jerryborjon Maybe you don't need to change controllers and thats fine, but that doesn't change the fact that 1. It is still an option, it is completly optional many people won't use it but unlike consoles the option is still there 2. Some games do not control well at all even with the controller in mind, for example very many wii games 3. Yes there is a need, people can change to a gamecube controller to play a fighting game with some friends (for example melee or brawlhalla) because of the notches that put the joystick in place so it doesn't accidentally move and the fighting focused button layout but they might wanna play some 3D platformers (a hat in time and SM64) but the gamecube controller doesn't controll well on that specific game such as the notches limiting the full 360 degree movement and the layout not being to your liking 4. That comparison is complete trash because a controller can be easily pluged in and out and the pc will still work the same, unlike removing a graphics card which is not as easy to do and impairs your pc. My point still stands and unless you back your points up then i really don't care what you say
Instead of using a camera to try to find out what the input lag is between different controllers, you can use crypt of the necrodancer, it has a built in input lag check feature
3:05 when you say that I just want you to know that every pc gamer I know uses a game pad as a secondary controller, some games just play WAY better with a gamepad, I'm interested in this controller as a pc guy
Well on the point of having to travel all the way down. If it works like that it is broken. Switches should register the push somewhere in the middle of the travel (look up red switch gif and see when the circuit closes).
Sunwaytek made that very budget Switch Pro controller with the red sticks that looks like a lot of other budget options at the time like the Nyko Core. Spawn Wave made a video on it a while back. That could be where you remember Sunwaytek from. EDIT: Oh, you already had it...
Honestly, my opinion of this controller depends on where the actuation point is for the key switches. Reds aren't usually at the bottom, and are about halfway down in the keypress iirc.
Part of what I love about mechanical switches is the sound on the feel of them and imo those are the only things that could possibly matter when trying to put a mechanical switch on a controller. Based on that I think they should mainly come in blue or brown variety and maybe red on the side for the five people that might want that. they should definitely be a low profile switch and maybe then we'll have something to really talk about. if one comes out with blue low profile switches then I'd be all over that I always keep a controller by my PC (my only gaming machine) for the handful of games I play that really work better with a controller.
Mechanical switch on a controller was done long before. Razer made a ps4 pro controller that utilizes very short travel clicky switches (like the mechanical switches in mice buttons)
I watched this with such intensity. I don’t think I blinked. I don’t want my own thoughts to spoil the video. ...it’s a cool concept that I honestly hope Hori or 8bitdo tries.
As a PC gamer I always use a controller with casual games and racing games, I only use keyboard and mouse with shooters and online competitive games, I like to sit back with a controller if it doesn't affect gameplay
It’s a feel thing for me, I use quiet (brown) switches I don’t like loud. I enjoy the tactical feedback, I don’t have as many accidental extra letters shoved into my words while I’m typing. It’s similar to using a crappy wrench vs a descent wrench, I’m going to be using it everyday. I don’t want to fell like it’s going to break or feel like a sponge. Also I mostly use controllers on pc except shooters or game involving me points a cursor. Anyway to each their own
This reminds me of the Razer Onza for the 360/PC, it used micro switches instead (like a mouse button) and it was awesome, D-Pad, triggers and being wired kill it for me but pressing the face buttons was satisfying.
The idea is interesting, but I think using red switches is a complete miss here. Better would be low profile/low travel tactile switches. If I am bored I might get one and solder in new switches
Pretty sure your keyboard is the keychron which afaik doesn't use cherry reds. Most likely gateron low profile red switched. A good switch either way, low profile is comfy.
My main gaming platform is my PC and there I can use not only a keyboard and mouse but also a gamepad, a steering wheel, flightstick, whatever I want. I can always choose the best tool for the job.
Best guess is that the "red switches" on the face buttons are likely Kaihua Red switches? That said I've seen adapters designed for fight sticks that accept keyboard switches. The thing is that the travel distance isn't as much of an issue with fight sticks (I say "as much" since some manufacturers do make buttons with smaller amounts of travel for faster input) as it is with a gamepad since the finger positioning is different with those-you don't have to "roll" from a depressed button to a non-depressed one since usually you keep fingers on more than one button at a time. Also, the lag in the motion control matter may be gyro drift; something that happens with most gyro inputs, but is sometimes worse on certain devices. Often this is remedied by configuring it to only turn on motion control while a button is held down (something that you noticed in Rogue Company and something that a lot of folks using the Steam Input API noticed makes gamepad playing of FPS/TPS games actually significantly better than using a stick for aiming-even with good gyros you generally only want it on for aiming when you hold down a button).
I had this exact idea!! Wow It's so awesome to see someone finally make it! The closest thing we've gotten to this before it Razer's controllers with clicky mouse-style switches. I would probably use silver switches or possibly make a new switch with minimal travel and near instant actuation. The long travel of standard mech switches works for keyboards, but with a controller it does not. I hope to see more experimental controllers like this!
It's not a bad idea. I mean, some times the buttons can get pushed down and stay down upon being released over long term use. This could solve that. However, I'm not sure it would be wise for the D-pad as I don't think I've had it happen with the D-pad. In other words, the switches for the buttons might have been good, but the D-pad is where a more traditional D-pad with a pivot would be fine.
A lot of PC users use controllers either because they're used to it or for practical reasons. Distance from the computer or physical issues like carpal tunnel. PC usability is a selling point for switch controllers for me.
Linear Mechanical switches (cherry reds) normally have a very small actuation distance, meaning you need to give it a small amount of force to activate. This controller didn’t have that, defeating the purpose.
It's possible that the problem with the motion controls in Mario Galaxy is that the filter in the IMU isn't quite right. It might zero out too big of movements, so anything that's smaller than, what honestly seems to me as moving across an entire 10th of the damn screen, isn't registered as actual movement. This is probably because either the IMU is cheaper than it should be and the drift is very noticeable so a higher amount of filtering is needed, or the factory calibration was done by someone who never took a primer in physics during high school.
Huh, weird… I don't think that's true. Afaik it only recognizes the analog triggers of the GameCube controllers and that's only if the game can actually recognize the GC controller as what it is instead of a generic Pro controller. I know one racing game implemented GC controlelr support just to have analog triggers
@@ddnava96 looks like it was a bit of placebo. i was barely dropping outside the range that counts as a press, causing the car to slow down, but i didnt realize that it was just registering the end of the press, not actual analog input slowing down the car
@@VagrantValmar I'm still annoyed that Nintendo didn't bother including proper GC controller (+analog trigger) support in Super Mario Sunshine's Switch port.
I bought the previous sunwaytech controller, and actually really liked it, but then after about 100 hours of use the membrane buttons actually failed. I bought this new one as well, because the old model had one of the best (most accurate) d-pads I'd ever used on the switch, perfect for tetris 99, and thinking that the failed button problem had been resolved very elegantly. However I just like the new style of d-pad significantly less. The strange bulge is also annoying, but I still find it's a good controller overall, and I'm sure it will last much longer than the old model.
🤷♂️ I ❤️ membrane keyboards. I switched to a mechanical a few years ago and just hated it. It was loud, and the force required to press the keys was just too great. Switched again back to membrane and couldn't be happier. Just some nice, quiet, soft keys.
I'd be curious to know what mechanical keyboard you tried. There are a large variety of options, with different levels of sound produced and force required to press the keys. Mechanical is more of an umbrella term encompassing all of the different types of mechanical keyboards out there. Regardless, if you're happy with what you have, that's all that really matters. Cheers.
I love the concept of mechanical switches on a game controller. If there was a v2 version that resolved the travel distance issues and trigger issues. I'd happily pay $50 for it.
i have experience with custom keyboards and building arcade sticks, so this is super attractive to me. i knew by the first moment you confirmed it had mechanical switches in it that the button presses would have a long travel distance, which is not good. that's the reason we still use membrane buttons on controllers, they are just the most responsive. oddly enough, i actually prefer high end chicklet membrane keyboards (i use a Microsoft surface keyboard for normal computer use) for the travel distance and how membrane keys register input at the end of their stroke. playing a game on my computer though, i use a kooltron keypad with cherry mx red keys. i feel that if you were to limit the overtravel of the mechanical keys on this controller, it would significantly improve the feel of the buttons, as it only has to travel 2mm to register input, but actually has closer to 4 or 5mm of total key travel. as for fixing the arcade stick style dpad, that may take more creativity. i think i will buy one of these controllers to mess with. it definitely sounds cool. though i wish it used a better chip for the motion control, that's probably why it feels floaty. but we'll see.
Honest reviews, gotta love em. I don't know about your flat keycaps though dude, haha! I gotta have either cherry or OEM profile on my keebs. Something for my finger tips to grip while clacking away.
As a pc gamer (I play switch and the other consoles as well, I just mainly play my pc) I want to say that I, and I think most other PC gamers, enjoy keyboard and mouse for MOST games. Games that require precise movements and whatnot are where the keyboard and mouse shine. I however, will not play certain games unless I'm using a controller. Racing games, 2D platformers, some 3D platformers, fighting games, and most JRPGs are where I absolutely adore using controller. You can lean back and relax and just enjoy yourself without the need of having absolute precision, or buttons are easier to find for most games. I think if the shape of the controller can be fixed, as well as the d-pad, this could be a very good controller. I also just want to say that it looks like a cheaper version of the steam controller.
I’ve been subscribed w/ notifications on for years. I was wondering why you haven’t posted in a number of weeks so I searched wulff den to find not only had you been posting videos but I was unsubscribed. UA-cam is my number 1 entertainment source, I watch 10s of hours of videos a week, and I’m 1000000% sure I did not do that. And before anyone asks no, no one else has access to my account.
I'm sure someone already mentioned this but at 4:30 when he says he has cherry MX reds in his keyboard.. they aren't actually "true" cmx reds, they're cmx red slims, much smaller profile switch than a standard MX style switch with a much shorter actuation distance and a slightly different feel to standard cmx red switches. for the sake of the vid it's not an issue I just feel it needed to be clarified somewhere. coming from someone who has build from scratch many keyboards and is currently designing their own
Most mechanical keyboard enthusiasts care about, sound, feel, aesthetic (including myself). Most enthusiasts that actually obsess over these things don't have obnoxious keybooards, quite the opposite really. we work really hard (it can take a couple days of trying to perfectly balance stabilizers and tuning them) to make our boards sound as pleasing as possible. i get the opposite of annoyed at my keyboard at work, i actually get requests to build people boards all the time because they're annoyed with how obnoxious their cheap membranes or cheap prebuilt mechs sound and feel. also, i'm almost certain this controller was more built for the FGC nerd (which i also am) than it was built for the keyboard enthusiast.
3:05 trust me a ton of pc users prefer controller for a lot of games ;) a friend of mine even prefers it for games like fallout that have a first-person view where you have to aim
on pc while the video is playing press 1-1-2-2, you'll get a cool song of Wulff Den singing " USB-C cable, UCB-C cable, iOS iOS". 9-6 for " Mechanical Keyboard Smash".
ive had good and bad membrane keyboards. the one i use now i use despite having cherry reds. it feels good. its not as weak as others and has a good bump. its not silent, but its close. i prefer this for gaming as well. hp pr 1101u. not all membranes are created equal!
they should have used razer green style switches. the travel distance before registered press is basically membrane but with the clickieness of a traditional mechanical keyboard
analog triggers are great if you use dolphin, i bought a "gamecube style" switch controller for gc games and i had to map L as half pull and Zl as a full pull. i think thats how they did sunshine on 3d all stars
Big surprise! I'm Gary of Sunwaytek the maker of this controller. Thank you for this video! Quite objective and fair. We never heard the mentioned Dpad before from our customers, but we'll study to prevent this. I wish more people could give your voices and help us to make better.
Hey you can send me one and I'll review it! My wife and my cats would love to hear about how much I love/hate/am ok with this controller. Feel free to DM me and I'll tell you where to ship my review copy thanks!
@@santyxeorrr are u trying to get free stuff bruh
@@utqrs7977 @Sunwaytek Hey send us both one Izzairein Taqris's opinion carries more weight in this world than most. They definitely need a review copy.
@@santyxeorrr bruh i just said the truth
@@santyxeorrr u dont even do videos
3:06 A large amount of people who game on PC do in fact use controllers a lot. Nothing beats a controller in racing games, or games like Dark Souls for example. It's also a lot more intuitive to use a controller in emulators and such.
exactly even playing 3d platformers is impossible on keyboard and mouse. using an analog stick is much better for mario games
No wheel for racing games
Really the shining point of PC. Having options.
Play games with the controls that fit the game most ideal.
@@Jammert if you want a wheel get the thrustmaster eswap XR forza edition where you get a wheel module for the controller
I have no interest in that controller but I watch anyway because it has to do with the Switch and Wulff seems like a pretty cool guy.
Wolff is a pretty kewl guy, eh play Mario and doesn't afraid of nething.
Controllers need 1000hz polling rate too....
Who’s Wulff? I thought this was jesus
same
@@stevea1089 ¹111¹
0:17 Ill never achieve this level of typing accuracy, this mans a pro
haha
Thats how sweats build in fortnite.....
Read The Bible
That’s at least 100wpm.
ikr
This controller sounded like a great idea for about the first half of the video. Then, more and more issues got pointed out. I’d try one, but the button not wanting to stay *on* would really bug me because I know I’d manage to accidentally pop it off
How are u 2 hours ago?
@@danielwilliams3161 probably he is a member of the channel
@@pramitshah931 I don't understand
@@danielwilliams3161 see the "Join" button besides subscribe?
He/She probably clicked that.
@@pramitshah931 I know it's not a big deal but from the pfp i think it's a she, I might be right or wrong and it does not REALLY matter, just saying
I feel like if this controller had low profile mechanic switches (maybe in a 2.0?) That may solve a ton of the problems.
Maybe add o-ring to reduce bottom-out distance to make it feels similar to pro controller would improve it further as many players rely on bottom-out feel to register as pressing a button.
@@titaniumwo1f390 As you already know (by your knowledge of the o-ring "mod"), it's used by many people who have mechanical keyboards. That's a fantastic idea as well. Logitech, in my opinion, has the best low profile switches on the market right now, more specifically the best implementation of them. It's entirely possible that someone could desolder the current switches on these controllers and out their own on 🤔, same as if you were modding your own keyboard.
@@suprastevio2264 logitechs romer g switches have a actuation distance of 1.5mm and a bottom out of 3mm. Cherry does make a low profile switch with an actuation distance of 1.2mm and a bottom out of 3.2. but there is so much more choice out there. if they use a standard style switch, i'm sure you can find a replacement that will work well. did anyone ever measure the travel distance of a standard first party controller button?
Kailh chocs would be great, o-rings are absolutely disgusting
@@jackp3125 exactly, it just makes it feel like a membrane keyboard that you were so desperate to get away fro.
I purchased one of these a few weeks ago. Build felt really cheap, and it was awkward to use, I prefer to roll my thumb around the 4 face buttons, but that’s not possible with my small hands and the ergonomics of the controller. I do wish they used clicky buttons instead of smooth though, that would create a very nice tactile feel to the controller as a whole. My D-pad was very clicky when going right, but felt a bit more vague going the other directions. There’s a lot that can be improved in the controller, but it was a good idea at heart. Couldn’t recommend it though in its current state :(
The real question is .... Can you break it in half?
How could you have commented one hour ago if the video was uploaded 30 mins ago? *x-files sound effect*
@@josuegrady4583 many tried time jump in comments section
@@josuegrady4583 He’s a member so he gets content early
@@josuegrady4583 members get early access to videos that Bob uploads. Supporter chat in his discord is where he drops the links.
@@josuegrady4583 Us members get video early
I'm all for new unique controllers, but I'm terrified to actually commit to something like this, especially since it's a one-off and I don't see this becoming a new "format" - just switching platforms takes time to readjust my muscle memory and get back in the swing of things
There's clearly a reason for design teams to choose membrane based buttons. I admit the variety it's cool but it seems that mechanical buttons are made for perpendicular presses or a different angle from the finger.
"Mechanical keyboards are objectively better than membrane keyboards"
*Cries in topre and vintage IBM*
And better is subjective and situational. I find mechanical (or Topre) better for typing, but worse for gaming, for exactly the same reason he mention later in the video. Membrane are on/off with almost no travel, while switches in a mechanical have a bit of travel before activating. It's incredibly comfortable to type on a mechanical keyboard, and they can sound really nice, but a good membrane button like on the Switch Pro controller or the Xbox pad is just hard to beat when gaming.
@Rando I use linear, membrane is still faster. But in the keyboard world, it's way harder to find a good membrane than in the controller world. The only ones I liked were, ironically, made by Cherry.
@@Thagor95 right on the money there's about 1.5 mm - 2mm of pre travel before the switch is actually actuated
I really dislike the new dpad that a bunch of controllers are using. They’re uncomfortable after a while of use, and I just prefer the old ones.
yes, same
I agree, i hate the xbox d-pad and the ps4's is only a tiny bit better.
Yeah same I hate the new xbox dpad (but I didnt realize like the old DPads of xbox either)
My favorite Dpads are playstations
i like the old dpads also the nes style ones not the new cicle shaped ones they were pluses for a reason
@@MrPers0n30 I'm not a fan of the connected Dpads that's why I prefer playstations
"PC players only using keyboard and mouse"... meanwhile I have and use controllers/fightsticks from every console on PC. DS4 is my weapon of choice with the 8bitdo adapter on PC.
I also use my PS4 controller on pc. I have my pc standing under my TV and basically only use it for playing games.
Yeah most PC gamers use controllers too, that statement was odd. There's just some genres of games that are objectively better with proper analog controls like the sticks and triggers (Racing Games, Flight Simulators, Fighting Games, 3D Platformers, any console ports with bad or no KBM controls, etc.) just as there's a lot of genres that are objectively better with KBM (shooters being the big one, it's near impossible to aim on most console shooters, I have no idea how anyone does it successfully. The one exception of course being Splatoon, the gyro aim gets really dang close to the accuracy of a mouse)
@@BrandonGiesing nah gyro is shit. The only reason FPS games are playable on console is aim assist.
@@axel1562 The gyroscope in a ds4 controller is actually pretty decent, its good enough for emulating breath of the wild with cemu.
What is the reason behind using the adapter for your dualshock 4 when it hooks right up via Bluetooth?
I love coming back to this channel a few times a year its like checking up on a cousin every now and then.
saw this on amazon i’m glad you’re reviewing it🙏
You’re*
@@keir92 my bad
Me too
11:12 Initiating depressed
...
11:14 Finishing depressed
2020 in a nutshell
I think mechanical switches is a great idea, and I'm shocked no one's really done it before. But yea, obviously having longer travel isn't ideal. It seems like they didn't spend any time developing it, and just stuck keyboard switches on there without changing it. If they did spend more time, they could get the travel down a bit. A decent, well thought out controller that was mechanical would be super sick
This is something that I always dreamed of. Is not even a case of being better or being more precise, but of being more durable. I am tired of having to try and buy a new membrane for all of the ones a ripped playing.
When did the concave d-pad become popular? I hate it.
"You see where I"M GOING WITH IT?" That's how you hook me into the video
I've seen this way back on my "adventurous" look up of game controllers. Seems to me pressing mechanical switches with your thumb is kinda... dumb.
That's coming from someone with a stupidly overmodded hotswap keyboard with Blue, and also Green switches for extra clack.
The ergomech community would like to know your location. Thumb clusters for days
Indonesia- As part of the classic devout believer of staggered keyboard, I respect your opinion, but also would like to say that the thumb should only be on top of the space bar.
Praise big ass enter, cheri-o.
Subbed for your controller reviews and since you're the only channel I could find seriously reviewing the gyro, compared to other channels just quickly mentioning a controller has them.
9:47 damn, and just like that 1-1 goomba the tutorial enemy smoked another mario away.
Truly marvelous
In terms of mechanical vs membrane, the membrane isn't referring to the rubber. It is instead referring to little sheets that complete circuits. What a controller does is rubber dome over pcb. Most membrane keyboards use rubber domes (Spare a few like the IBM Model M which uses buckling springs and feels much better than most modern mechanicals).
It's so strange to see another controller using the "sunken" grips like the Steam controller, specially since there doesn't seem to have any reason to be like that.
Hahaha you got my like in the first 30 seconds. Thanks for the review. And love your advertisement skills! Keep doing them, they are the only in-video advertisements I never skip.
7 seconds in: "something about the clickiness of the keys really gets them going"
Now that's where I have to stop you sir-
Hey, if you didn't know, the Sn30 pro+ now allows you to switch the left joystick and d-pad input
Can we take a moment to appreciate the modeling skills at 1:22
Thing is, with keyboards and arcade sticks they are flat and have a hard surface behind them. Youre essentially using the weight of your hand and the surface to push the button. On a handheld controller, you dont have the table behind it or the weight of your whole hand to push the button. This is why a mechanical button, which takes more force to use, is less ideal for a handheld controller.
The thing that surprised me the most from this controller is the stick box. It feels precise and I have noticed little to no snap back issues.
I'm debating making this my main controller for Ultimate but the low quality feeling triggers might be a deal breaker.
Metal dome buttons does kinda a hybrid-thing between membran and switches, but with very little travel. Thats why the clicky face buttons on the joy-cons are more reliable than the mushy membran buttons on the pro controller. On the other hand they do an annoying sound when clicked.
Quick Correction: Your Keychron K1 uses a variation of the linear switch, called the Cherry MX Low-profile Red.
Now for my opinion: Low-profile Reds have lower travel and faster actuation, and I personally prefer normal Reds or Gateron Yellows for typing instead.
I know this video is 5 months old, but as a PC user, controllers are still a must have for some games. Driving games, fighting games, platformers, beat em ups, even with emulation you’ll need a trusty controller.
I've used one mechanical keyboard one time and I loved it so much. I love clickiness and mechanical feedback, I put metal sticks in my Xbox controller just so I could click them.
One thing I would like to point out "and I do not know if this controller works the same way" is that the use of a mechanical keyboard is yes it takes longer for the buttons to actually be pressed but the speed at which the command goes through is actually faster because a mechanical keyboard has a more direct line than most others. If this is true with this controller then the button press time would not matter as much because you would be getting close to if not faster than you were before. But that would all depend on if the controller used the same principle as a good amount of mechanical keyboards.
Hi Bob, here are some video ideas that I think fit right up your alley for content:
- Best batteries to put in your controller
- Best Power strip to put your switch charger on
- Best lighting to use on your switch when playing in handheld
The absolute best, in my humble opinion;
- GP 2100 mAh NiMh AA rechargeable batteries (because they should last more cycles than 2600mAh ones).
- A high quality BS 1363 (UK) or CEE 7/4 (EU) power strip with surge protection.
- The adapter included with a Switch or Switch Lite, or a high-quality big-brand USB-C one (that passed the "bigclivedotcom" test).
@@WyvernDotRed I've given up hoping for Bob to make game reviews or anything interesting. Just trying to give him content ideas that match his niche
3:05 So many people use controllers on pc. last time i checked you can't change from a DS4 to a gamecube controller in mere seconds on a switch
There really isn’t a need to change controllers quickly on a console. Games are specifically made with certain controllers in mind. That’s like judging a watercooled, overclocked PC with an RTX 3090 for its portability.
@@jerryborjon Maybe you don't need to change controllers and thats fine, but that doesn't change the fact that
1. It is still an option, it is completly optional many people won't use it but unlike consoles the option is still there
2. Some games do not control well at all even with the controller in mind, for example very many wii games
3. Yes there is a need, people can change to a gamecube controller to play a fighting game with some friends (for example melee or brawlhalla) because of the notches that put the joystick in place so it doesn't accidentally move and the fighting focused button layout but they might wanna play some 3D platformers (a hat in time and SM64) but the gamecube controller doesn't controll well on that specific game such as the notches limiting the full 360 degree movement and the layout not being to your liking
4. That comparison is complete trash because a controller can be easily pluged in and out and the pc will still work the same, unlike removing a graphics card which is not as easy to do and impairs your pc.
My point still stands and unless you back your points up then i really don't care what you say
Instead of using a camera to try to find out what the input lag is between different controllers, you can use crypt of the necrodancer, it has a built in input lag check feature
I’d wait on this controller until the 10th revision. It needs work.
9:45
If you were ever wondering WHO keeps dying on the first enemy of game, its Bob.
3:05 when you say that I just want you to know that every pc gamer I know uses a game pad as a secondary controller, some games just play WAY better with a gamepad, I'm interested in this controller as a pc guy
Well on the point of having to travel all the way down. If it works like that it is broken.
Switches should register the push somewhere in the middle of the travel (look up red switch gif and see when the circuit closes).
Sunwaytek made that very budget Switch Pro controller with the red sticks that looks like a lot of other budget options at the time like the Nyko Core. Spawn Wave made a video on it a while back. That could be where you remember Sunwaytek from.
EDIT: Oh, you already had it...
Honestly, my opinion of this controller depends on where the actuation point is for the key switches. Reds aren't usually at the bottom, and are about halfway down in the keypress iirc.
They should have used microswitches instead of mechanical keyboard switches.
Part of what I love about mechanical switches is the sound on the feel of them and imo those are the only things that could possibly matter when trying to put a mechanical switch on a controller.
Based on that I think they should mainly come in blue or brown variety and maybe red on the side for the five people that might want that.
they should definitely be a low profile switch and maybe then we'll have something to really talk about.
if one comes out with blue low profile switches then I'd be all over that I always keep a controller by my PC (my only gaming machine) for the handful of games I play that really work better with a controller.
Watching your videos is a lot like being awoken by a loud infomercial at 4am for the "Magic Bullet Blender".
Mechanical switch on a controller was done long before. Razer made a ps4 pro controller that utilizes very short travel clicky switches (like the mechanical switches in mice buttons)
I watched this with such intensity. I don’t think I blinked. I don’t want my own thoughts to spoil the video.
...it’s a cool concept that I honestly hope Hori or 8bitdo tries.
so this is a BIG Gift for people that REALLY like Mechanical Keyboards and Like RPG's and ARCADE RACERS
As a PC gamer I always use a controller with casual games and racing games, I only use keyboard and mouse with shooters and online competitive games, I like to sit back with a controller if it doesn't affect gameplay
You are the only one whose ad spots I don't skip
Couple this with that one analog keyboard and the mouse that has a joystick stuck on it to create the ultimate "hold on, what?" gaming setup.
It’s a feel thing for me, I use quiet (brown) switches I don’t like loud. I enjoy the tactical feedback, I don’t have as many accidental extra letters shoved into my words while I’m typing. It’s similar to using a crappy wrench vs a descent wrench, I’m going to be using it everyday. I don’t want to fell like it’s going to break or feel like a sponge. Also I mostly use controllers on pc except shooters or game involving me points a cursor. Anyway to each their own
I could watch Wulff talk about switch stuff all day
This reminds me of the Razer Onza for the 360/PC, it used micro switches instead (like a mouse button) and it was awesome, D-Pad, triggers and being wired kill it for me but pressing the face buttons was satisfying.
Reds are linear switches. Linear switches have no tactile bump and are silent when it comes to “clicky” noises compared to clicky and tactile switches
Why is your channel so good? I would watch your take on anything. Great job still
The idea is interesting, but I think using red switches is a complete miss here. Better would be low profile/low travel tactile switches. If I am bored I might get one and solder in new switches
It's so weird. Arcade controllers ALWAYS used micro switches. PC's switch to micro switch and now it's coming all the way around to controller pads
Pretty sure your keyboard is the keychron which afaik doesn't use cherry reds. Most likely gateron low profile red switched. A good switch either way, low profile is comfy.
My main gaming platform is my PC and there I can use not only a keyboard and mouse but also a gamepad, a steering wheel, flightstick, whatever I want.
I can always choose the best tool for the job.
Sunwaytek H511: I have mechanical face buttons!
Razer Controllers: Am i joke to you?
Best guess is that the "red switches" on the face buttons are likely Kaihua Red switches? That said I've seen adapters designed for fight sticks that accept keyboard switches. The thing is that the travel distance isn't as much of an issue with fight sticks (I say "as much" since some manufacturers do make buttons with smaller amounts of travel for faster input) as it is with a gamepad since the finger positioning is different with those-you don't have to "roll" from a depressed button to a non-depressed one since usually you keep fingers on more than one button at a time.
Also, the lag in the motion control matter may be gyro drift; something that happens with most gyro inputs, but is sometimes worse on certain devices. Often this is remedied by configuring it to only turn on motion control while a button is held down (something that you noticed in Rogue Company and something that a lot of folks using the Steam Input API noticed makes gamepad playing of FPS/TPS games actually significantly better than using a stick for aiming-even with good gyros you generally only want it on for aiming when you hold down a button).
It's a great idea, it just needs to be polished. I'd also try smaller arcade buttons, even if that makes the controller bulkier.
I had this exact idea!! Wow It's so awesome to see someone finally make it! The closest thing we've gotten to this before it Razer's controllers with clicky mouse-style switches. I would probably use silver switches or possibly make a new switch with minimal travel and near instant actuation. The long travel of standard mech switches works for keyboards, but with a controller it does not. I hope to see more experimental controllers like this!
It's not a bad idea. I mean, some times the buttons can get pushed down and stay down upon being released over long term use. This could solve that. However, I'm not sure it would be wise for the D-pad as I don't think I've had it happen with the D-pad. In other words, the switches for the buttons might have been good, but the D-pad is where a more traditional D-pad with a pivot would be fine.
Thanks Bahb! I get excited everytime I see an upload!
A lot of PC users use controllers either because they're used to it or for practical reasons. Distance from the computer or physical issues like carpal tunnel. PC usability is a selling point for switch controllers for me.
Can't say I've ever had an issue with buttons on controllers. Would be interested in the feel of solid D-Pad that doesn't break.
Linear Mechanical switches (cherry reds) normally have a very small actuation distance, meaning you need to give it a small amount of force to activate. This controller didn’t have that, defeating the purpose.
It's possible that the problem with the motion controls in Mario Galaxy is that the filter in the IMU isn't quite right. It might zero out too big of movements, so anything that's smaller than, what honestly seems to me as moving across an entire 10th of the damn screen, isn't registered as actual movement. This is probably because either the IMU is cheaper than it should be and the drift is very noticeable so a higher amount of filtering is needed, or the factory calibration was done by someone who never took a primer in physics during high school.
the switch does recognize analog triggers, i used to use my sn30pro+ for rocket league for that reason
edit: this is false
Huh, weird… I don't think that's true. Afaik it only recognizes the analog triggers of the GameCube controllers and that's only if the game can actually recognize the GC controller as what it is instead of a generic Pro controller. I know one racing game implemented GC controlelr support just to have analog triggers
Only with GC controllers and only games that have that compatibility
@@ddnava96 im going to test it again. im fairly certain though
@@ddnava96 looks like it was a bit of placebo. i was barely dropping outside the range that counts as a press, causing the car to slow down, but i didnt realize that it was just registering the end of the press, not actual analog input slowing down the car
@@VagrantValmar
I'm still annoyed that Nintendo didn't bother including proper GC controller (+analog trigger) support in Super Mario Sunshine's Switch port.
I bought the previous sunwaytech controller, and actually really liked it, but then after about 100 hours of use the membrane buttons actually failed. I bought this new one as well, because the old model had one of the best (most accurate) d-pads I'd ever used on the switch, perfect for tetris 99, and thinking that the failed button problem had been resolved very elegantly. However I just like the new style of d-pad significantly less. The strange bulge is also annoying, but I still find it's a good controller overall, and I'm sure it will last much longer than the old model.
0:16 me when i brought my mechanical keyboard at the office
also me to my wife while work from home
The controller looks like a pro controller that was punched in the face.
🤷♂️ I ❤️ membrane keyboards. I switched to a mechanical a few years ago and just hated it. It was loud, and the force required to press the keys was just too great. Switched again back to membrane and couldn't be happier. Just some nice, quiet, soft keys.
I'd be curious to know what mechanical keyboard you tried. There are a large variety of options, with different levels of sound produced and force required to press the keys. Mechanical is more of an umbrella term encompassing all of the different types of mechanical keyboards out there. Regardless, if you're happy with what you have, that's all that really matters. Cheers.
I actually wanted to get that Satisfeye bundle for myself but the shipping to Europe is INSANE!
I love the concept of mechanical switches on a game controller. If there was a v2 version that resolved the travel distance issues and trigger issues. I'd happily pay $50 for it.
3:55 - nitpicking, but it's more like it "uninterrupts" the circuit (or "completes the circuit").
They should use "clicky" style mechanical switches, similar to the ones found in most controllers' analog sticks.
i have experience with custom keyboards and building arcade sticks, so this is super attractive to me. i knew by the first moment you confirmed it had mechanical switches in it that the button presses would have a long travel distance, which is not good. that's the reason we still use membrane buttons on controllers, they are just the most responsive. oddly enough, i actually prefer high end chicklet membrane keyboards (i use a Microsoft surface keyboard for normal computer use) for the travel distance and how membrane keys register input at the end of their stroke. playing a game on my computer though, i use a kooltron keypad with cherry mx red keys. i feel that if you were to limit the overtravel of the mechanical keys on this controller, it would significantly improve the feel of the buttons, as it only has to travel 2mm to register input, but actually has closer to 4 or 5mm of total key travel. as for fixing the arcade stick style dpad, that may take more creativity. i think i will buy one of these controllers to mess with. it definitely sounds cool. though i wish it used a better chip for the motion control, that's probably why it feels floaty. but we'll see.
0:15 doing the slip 🙌 fav part
Wow I just finished my chores and you made this video today man I dont think I've ever came across a video that was made that exact day
Honest reviews, gotta love em.
I don't know about your flat keycaps though dude, haha! I gotta have either cherry or OEM profile on my keebs. Something for my finger tips to grip while clacking away.
I love listening to people with a thick East Coast accent pronounce "Mario"
As a pc gamer (I play switch and the other consoles as well, I just mainly play my pc) I want to say that I, and I think most other PC gamers, enjoy keyboard and mouse for MOST games. Games that require precise movements and whatnot are where the keyboard and mouse shine. I however, will not play certain games unless I'm using a controller. Racing games, 2D platformers, some 3D platformers, fighting games, and most JRPGs are where I absolutely adore using controller. You can lean back and relax and just enjoy yourself without the need of having absolute precision, or buttons are easier to find for most games. I think if the shape of the controller can be fixed, as well as the d-pad, this could be a very good controller. I also just want to say that it looks like a cheaper version of the steam controller.
I’ve been subscribed w/ notifications on for years. I was wondering why you haven’t posted in a number of weeks so I searched wulff den to find not only had you been posting videos but I was unsubscribed. UA-cam is my number 1 entertainment source, I watch 10s of hours of videos a week, and I’m 1000000% sure I did not do that. And before anyone asks no, no one else has access to my account.
I'm sure someone already mentioned this but at 4:30 when he says he has cherry MX reds in his keyboard.. they aren't actually "true" cmx reds, they're cmx red slims, much smaller profile switch than a standard MX style switch with a much shorter actuation distance and a slightly different feel to standard cmx red switches. for the sake of the vid it's not an issue I just feel it needed to be clarified somewhere.
coming from someone who has build from scratch many keyboards and is currently designing their own
Most mechanical keyboard enthusiasts care about, sound, feel, aesthetic (including myself). Most enthusiasts that actually obsess over these things don't have obnoxious keybooards, quite the opposite really. we work really hard (it can take a couple days of trying to perfectly balance stabilizers and tuning them) to make our boards sound as pleasing as possible. i get the opposite of annoyed at my keyboard at work, i actually get requests to build people boards all the time because they're annoyed with how obnoxious their cheap membranes or cheap prebuilt mechs sound and feel. also, i'm almost certain this controller was more built for the FGC nerd (which i also am) than it was built for the keyboard enthusiast.
3:05 trust me a ton of pc users prefer controller for a lot of games ;) a friend of mine even prefers it for games like fallout that have a first-person view where you have to aim
Your channel is freaking awesome dude.
on pc while the video is playing press 1-1-2-2, you'll get a cool song of Wulff Den singing " USB-C cable, UCB-C cable, iOS iOS". 9-6 for " Mechanical Keyboard Smash".
ive had good and bad membrane keyboards. the one i use now i use despite having cherry reds. it feels good. its not as weak as others and has a good bump. its not silent, but its close. i prefer this for gaming as well. hp pr 1101u. not all membranes are created equal!
they should have used razer green style switches. the travel distance before registered press is basically membrane but with the clickieness of a traditional mechanical keyboard
they had us in the first half, not gonna lie.
probably still gonna buy it tho tbh. love mechanical keyboard switches
Never been this early. Just wanted to say thank you for your awesome videos!!
In addition to their great content, Bob and Wood do the most entertaining ad reads.
analog triggers are great if you use dolphin, i bought a "gamecube style" switch controller for gc games and i had to map L as half pull and Zl as a full pull. i think thats how they did sunshine on 3d all stars