More Mark 7 Videos Shopsmith Mark 7 Unboxing: Replacing My Trusty Mark V - ua-cam.com/video/Hi8m2YtT4Co/v-deo.html Shopsmith Mark 7 Answers and Updates: There's More to the Quality Story - ua-cam.com/video/8iOr7MHP06A/v-deo.html Zero Runout & Other Mark 7 Performance Measures - ua-cam.com/video/HEFFYw29yV4/v-deo.html 90-Day Review: Shopsmith Mark 7 - ua-cam.com/video/raIN89AvJvs/v-deo.html 2 American Woodworking Machines 3 Decades Apart: Similarities and Differences -ua-cam.com/video/ZkQwukr1T5U/v-deo.html Hoosier Step Stool Build: Testing the Shopsmith Mark 7 - ua-cam.com/video/C1q3jN-HU7c/v-deo.html
Being primarily a wood turner the reverse option is very attractive for sanding end grain plus the slower speeds to turn larger blanks. A lottery win would be needed however so not in the cards. Great vid squire.
Tom, I appreciate the insight you and Scott provide to the Shopsmith Community. As a Mark 7 owner like you, I would be open to the PowerPro 2.0 interface if it truly added more function. But as more information is released I can make a better decision. I like the bigger more colorful interface but would like to see what operations it may interfere with. I like the idea of software updates. Shortly after I received my Mark 7, I captured the complete menu tree and found and error and some omissions (8” Dado and Biscuit Joiner). I took the information forward to Jim McCann and there wasn’t anything he could do other than provide me with the correct information or recommendations. So the ability to take feedback from the user community and offer updates would be great. I also never liked the use of the “Low Voltage” error message at shutdown. Not a very clean implementation. One last thing I would hope for is a screen like my iPad that rotates when you change orientation. How cool wold that be to have a vertical screen in the drill press, under/over table operations. Can’t wait for more information.
I'm a PowerPro owner and I'm very intrigued by the 2.0 - I think having the ability to upgrade the software would be a huge benefit. However - I also study computer interfaces for a living, and let me tell you: having a power tool (any power tool) without an OFF button that you can't find by feel alone is really dangerous. The last thing you want when something doesn't feel right or you're in a "mission abort" situation is to be fumble around for the OFF button. And that's not even considering the 'zombie fingers' thing. Hopefully, Shopsmith engineers have an elegant solution for that. That said, it's definitely something they could offer via a software upgrade!
We still have the main power switch which is what I hit when I hung up a forstner bit, probably because that’s what I was used to pre power pro. I still somewhat hunt and peck when using power pro buttons.
I agree Mario, there's a lot to think about with this type of interface. Another issue would be visibility, we have place our finger over the thing we are selecting. How does the display interact with dirty finger prints for example?
this is easily mitigated though with an add on big off switch. Lots of tools don't have good emergency cutoffs, shopsmith isn't unique here. Even newish cabinet saws don't have ideal power cutoff buttons, but will sell better ones at added cost. oh well.
@@michaelbuddy You and others are correct, of course - one could easily put in an emergency switch between the PowerPro and the power outlet. The challenge there is muscle memory. If one becomes accustomed to shutting off the PowerPro 2.0 between operations via the touchscreen - in an emergency situation, muscle memory will take over and that's what the first impulse will be. It would take a lot of repetition and habit building to go for the emergency switch first. Touchscreens - especially those without haptic feedback - are not always the best interface for operating machinery. We're seeing this a lot in electric cars, for example.
I share your concerns about the touch screen, although I have not had the Zombie fingers issue with any of my devices. Another aspect of the upgrade is the dust proof motor/speed sensor. I recently had to pull the motor on my Power Pro to access the speed control to clean it up and get the motor running again. I am hoping Shopsmith does a demo video that answers all our questions. I'm in no hurry to upgrade, but I am seriously considering it because of the new sensor, the software upgradeability, and hopefully a better easier to read interface. And so we wait. Blessings, Glen
If you upgrade from gen 1 to gen 2, there is no change to the motor to prevent dust obscuring the sensor, and no new sensor. Please read my bug list on the Owner’s forum before deciding. I’m hoping to switch back.
@@terryperdue3726 Hi Terry, would you mind giving a link to your bug list? I am currently wrestling with the temptation to buy a Power Pro (or a Mark 7)...
Glad that you are still satisfied and the tool is still holding up! I too have Zombie Finger. I have to sometimes lick my finger to use my phones touch screen… followed by a Sani-wipe when it gets too smudged! Awesome update. Thanx Tom.
Thanks for producing the content of your channel. I have only watched a small number of your videos, primarily when researching whether to buy a second hand Shopsmith. I have not purchased one yet but maybe someday. Best of luck.
Tom, as always a great video. A lot of information to digest. I also appreciate your dialogue with the commenters. I learn a lot from the questions/comments and your responses..
At 10:08 your adjustable quill lever is easy to see. I believe the new quill feed pinion is longer for the lock handle to clear the new screen but if you zoom in it on the headstock pic on the website it still looks close and I wonder if your lever will be tight crossing the bottom of the new screen? Maybe it’s just camera angles. I think the new touchscreen projects out further than the original besides the screen itself being on a flat plane.
I believe you are correct, the quill feed is longer. Taking another look at the images, we can see a spacer on the shaft behind the lock knob. And that space is visible in the break-out photo of parts. Hmm. . . not sure I like that.
Thanks for explaining "zombie finger." I have this, too, and I always suspected it is because I play guitar and have callouses on my fingers (both hands, because I finger pick). After watching your video, I am more inclined to believe that this is the case.
Tom, Really enjoy your videos. I think you do an excellent job in being fair and honest with your content. My experience with the PowerPro Headstock hasn’t gone well for me. In 2012, I chose the option of buying a new PowerPro headstock and just sliding old mechanical headstock off and replacing. Within the new warranty period I had to ship it back twice. I then got about 8-9 years of good use, but then had to replace the digital interface twice and about 9 months ago either the power supply or motor failed. Other than shipping back to ShopSmith, I have been able to find any information about how to diagnose which of the $ 800 - $ 1,000 parts I would need for an effective repair. Lucky for me I got my 1987 mechanical headstock of a box, went thru a full maintenance and it has been working for me once again. I wish ShopSmith would do a video on troubleshooting problems with the 1.0 version of the PowerPro. I sure hope that you have better luck with your PowerPro 1.0
Thanks Tom, I too have zombie fingers. Not sure about the upgrade yet. I would like to know more about the diagnostic part. For my version there is very little help information but I have only had one issue so far with mine in 10 years.
Just a suggestion: any cheap "touchscreen stylus" will let you use a capacitive touchscreen without relying on your fingers. Buy one and hang it from the machine on a little leash and you'll never have to worry about it (or need to take your gloves off).
My Mark V 510 lives in large metal farm building that is not climate controlled. I’ve resisted upgrading to the PowerPro headstock because of almost exactly what you showed with the control face. I’m concerned about the overlay soft buttons deteriorating. I keep the 510 covered when not in use and serviced. Thanks for the review!!
@@castle5711 thanks for that information. It’s good to hear feedback on the PowerPro. I’m in north central TN so it’s hot summers and cold winters that it lives in. I do use a torpedo heater in the winter.
I agree on the wait for the 2.0. My concern was sawdust getting on the screen and being a problem over time even after cleaning the dust off. Unfortunately when I upgrade it looks like I'll have to go 2.0.
I think it's too early to tell whether they will offer the PowerPro 1 along side the PowerPro 2. Also, I'm not sure this 2.0 is a hit with the community yet, could be it doesn't take off. I guess we will have to wait for more information.
Thanks Mark. Your 520 is 10-12 years newer than my 510. That play's into it. Also, if you don't already have the magnetic rip scale upgrade, that is something to look at. And the double tilt does add some convenience functions. You don't have to have a PowerPro to take advantage of either of those.
@@woodshopnerdery i called shopsmith and was told they begin to fill orders next friday (two weeks from my order). My past experiences have been processing and shipping out here to california is another two weeks. Work and other practical distractions will mean it’ll be another delay. I suspect even this two after ordering is primarily to give guys like scott markwood a chance to do their videos (although scott was busy and actually turned down his offer). Again I really appreciate your detailed practical and totally honest reviews - you really hit all the important points! Same with your rebuttal to malarke’s video, and the one with markwood. No machine is perfect, but i sure have a high regard for shopsmith whos stood the test of time! Also the backward compatibility once again with this latest iteration is a stark contrast to all the planned obsolescence in everything else!
Install video link has not been released and the package omitted a few things like templates and new warning stickers but everything is on its way! Im sure its going to get sorted out and amazing how they ALWAYS make everything backward compatible so never any planned obsolescence!
One thing that might help you in the shop is to have one of those capacitive stylus pens, that way you can use it on the machine without worrying about the state of your fingers (and how dirty they might be too). could probably attach one magnetically to the power unit for easy use and return. They don't require batteries or anything, the rubber nib in the stylus just has what it takes to activate capacitive screens. Some work gloves have it too for people in field construction, harsh environments, etc.
@@woodshopnerdery I have been using the Shaper Origin router for several years now. It has a touch screen interface just like a phone and I have had no trouble with it. Very dependable and saw dust has not been an issue. I do use a stylus pen because my fingers are similar to yours and it gives me very precise control. If Shopsmith uses a similar display there should be no problem.
Okay that disk sander on the chisel backs method is brilliant. Now I want the double-tilt even more. That tilted table cut (8:26) is the one thing I really don't like about the ShopSmith system. I try to avoid it if at all possible, I'm just not comfortable.
Great video. I don't think I'll be upgrading from my 510 because it does everything I want it to and the cost of the upgrade. However, I am so looking at the double tilt upgrade for the 510.
I know it's just a photo but it looks like on the power pro 2.0, the way it protrudes, the quill knob will run right into the head stock control interface.
In case you're still considering upgrading from PowerPro 1 to PP 2, here's a little more info that might help you decide. (Upgrading to PowerPro in general IS a big improvement.) Aside from the obviously more attractive touch display, the new features are mostly concerned with helping you pick an appropriate run speed. It's like a more integrated version of the PP1's Chart function. Whether that and a prettier display adds over $400 worth of convenience is debatable. The screen is beautiful though, and I'm not missing the bubblewrap-like keys of the gen 1. But the current 2.1.1 version of the firmware is very buggy. Pressing any button (except for the up/down speed buttons) does not register until you remove your finger, which feels very odd to me. This is especially true when removing a saved Favorite, which you do by holding the corresponding button for two seconds. You'd expect a beep and the confirm prompt after 2 seconds, but nothing happens until you lift your finger - and not even then if you didn't wait long enough. The Back button doesn't always take you back to the previous screen, but rather to the Favorites screen. There's an unnecessary confirmation step when selecting the Planer. There are misspelled words in the prompts, another that's poorly-arranged, and yet another that's incorrect (SELECT YOUR CUT TYPE should be SELECT YOUR MATERIAL). The running speed display is unnecessary, since it quickly tracks the Set speed, but it should at least be averaged over more samples so that it doesn't appear to be constantly 'hunting'. (The gen 1 was the same way.) Mechanically, the circuit breaker and (redundant) fuseholder interfere with the bracket for the Shopsmith gooseneck lamp accessory. The woodruff key in the new spindle was incorrectly installed. The manual has installation steps that are out of order... You get the idea. And the USB port that's supposed to allow for firmware upgrades apparently isn't currently for the owner's use. (I was instructed to return mine for the upgrade - at their expense, but my downtime). I expect that will change though. And that tiny STOP button is so much less safe than it needs to be. They should keep the START button small, especially since a touch screen can more easily be accidentally activated, but please make the STOP button as large as possible - and make it respond as soon as touched. Once all these issues are resolved, if you want the latest and greatest user interface, I think you'll be happy with the upgrade. It will be similar to getting the next version of an iPhone. More flashy, but not necessarily a lot more useful.
GREAT video, Tom! (No Malarky!... sorry, I couldn't resist!) Please keep us up to date as you learn more about the Power Pro 2.0. Sort of off topic, but did you use the sanding disk to flatten the chisels by hand or did you turn on the Shopsmith? If so, how did you support the chisels? As a "hybrid" woodworker, I use hand tools a lot, which means I do a fair amount of sharpening. I have NEVER flattened the entire back of any chisel-way too much work! Yours look amazing! The cutting edge is the fine line where the plane of the back of the chisel intersects with the plane of the bevel of the chisel. Only the very end of the back needs to be flat.(?less than 1/4 inch?) In fact Japanese chisels are "hollow ground" on the back and only the edges of the sides and bevel become flat.
Ha! Good on James. I've not seen any new info on the PP 2.0 but will pass along anything I see. Yes, to correct the problems with my chisels I did power on the disc sander at about 400 RPM (yeah PowerPro). I registered the entire back of the chisels on the disc heal first then tip. This did most of the work which I finished up on a 220 grit stone. My sharpening has improved since I stopped listening to advice and thinking it through myself. What I found out the hard way is that most people confuse "flattening" with "polishing" and say you only need to "flatten" the very tip of the chisel/plane iron. That is wrong in my opinion, it should be "you only need to polish the very tip of the iron." What I have learn to do is flatten 2-3 inches of a plane iron, and the entire back of the chisel. Then polish only close to the tip for a keen edge. For chisels I want the back flat so I can use the back as a reference bed such as when using a squaring block to cut mortise at 90 degrees. For bevel up plane irons I want the back flat so it lays on the plane bed evenly to reduce chatter. For bevel down plan irons I want a flat back for accurate fitment of the chip breaker. For all of these a flat back makes removing the burr after honing the bevel much more dependable. The polish you see in the video was unintentional. I was doing a log of chisel work on the chair project, including end grain. So I was stropping ALOT using a 15K water-based diamond paste. Because the back was accurately flat, the polish came up over the many repeated stropping sessions.
Your wait and see approach to the latest upgrade is wise. After all, your used your first Shop Smith system for a few years before upgrading. Regarding equipment cost, comparing it to boats would put you in a 1000 sqr ft shop with your current tools plus a Felder sliding table saw, a monster bandsaw, and anything else you could fit in there. I owned a couple of boats and they have no top end with cost. I’m a small shop woodworker and the 2 bicycles I have costs more than my table saw, jointer, planer, bandsaw and dust extractor. But it’s all fun stuff!
Hi Tom, My name is Roger and I have a Mark V since 1985 and have upgraded it to a 520S and added the power pro 1.0. About a year after I install it my self (which was about 1 1/2 after i purchased it) I start getting a display problem when I use the motor for too long or if it is hot out a shorter timr frame. The display cycles through the startup sequence and flashes and just keeps repeating this untill I turn it off ley it cool the startup again. I do not get any error codes. Have you heard of this issue with the PP v1.0? I do like the extra power and speed control of the PP v1. Thanks for your review.
A question and a comment. I have a 10-ER and a Model 510 and use a foot switch for lathe work. Is there any way to do the same on a PowerPro? Comment: thanks for the bit on the under-table configuration. I realize there are a couple abilities of my old machines that I haven't discovered yet.
The latest (only?) firmware version (2.1.1) is buggy. The ‘buttons’ don’t operate properly, and the prompts are inconsistant, with at least two misspelled words. If you decide to upgrade, I suggest that you wait until they correct the issues. I wish someone had warned me.
Tom, a question for you. I just got my power pro 1.0 two months ago. I see you’re just over a year with your mk7. How often do you clean out your headstock? I’ve heard of many people having sawdust problems. I haven’t yet. Also, how do you accomplish this task. I’d sure like to go over a year without problems. Thanks.
I think I blew it out once, not much came out. Probably due for another blow out. I do it the same as I did on the mechanical headstock. I open up the back emblem and remove the belt cover. Then I use a Worx Shop Blow from all angles to blow the dust. www.worx.com/20v-cordless-shop-blower-wx094l.html
Does your PowerPro Ver 1 come with a fuse and an overload installed on the opposite side of the PowerPro control panel? In the new upgrade to the Ver 2, a fuse and an overload is installed on the opposite side of the panel. A new upgrade video by Jim released today shows the installing of the fuse and the overload. Wouldn’t this be good for the Ver 1 owners, since it would be added protection for the motor and the other electronics? It was not in the Ver 1 kit.
@@woodshopnerdery If you look at a picture of the Ver 1 upgrade kit, you do not see any fuse holder and overload items. But the Ver 2 you do. They need to be accessible externally, so if yours has nothing on the backside, then there probably is nothing in version 1. Looks like it is a design change in the new upgrade. From the Ver 2 brochure: Fuse and Overload Protection - The Thermal Overload Protector prevents damage from electrical surges motor overheating. Easy push-button reset after Motor cools.
@@williamtisher2012 the v1 has built in protection. I’m just not sure how it is accomplished. About 10 months ago I cover an over heat message on my PowerPro on the Community tab of my channel.
@@woodshopnerdery The DVR would have protection in it like a VFD does. Maybe they decided to put some external protection on the incoming line to avoid problems hurting the DVR itself. They may have had some DVR failures since the Gen1 came out and this is their way to improve the PowerPro going forward. Or it may be a compliance deal going forward.
More Mark 7 Videos
Shopsmith Mark 7 Unboxing: Replacing My Trusty Mark V - ua-cam.com/video/Hi8m2YtT4Co/v-deo.html
Shopsmith Mark 7 Answers and Updates: There's More to the Quality Story - ua-cam.com/video/8iOr7MHP06A/v-deo.html
Zero Runout & Other Mark 7 Performance Measures - ua-cam.com/video/HEFFYw29yV4/v-deo.html
90-Day Review: Shopsmith Mark 7 - ua-cam.com/video/raIN89AvJvs/v-deo.html
2 American Woodworking Machines 3 Decades Apart: Similarities and Differences -ua-cam.com/video/ZkQwukr1T5U/v-deo.html
Hoosier Step Stool Build: Testing the Shopsmith Mark 7 - ua-cam.com/video/C1q3jN-HU7c/v-deo.html
Being primarily a wood turner the reverse option is very attractive for sanding end grain plus the slower speeds to turn larger blanks. A lottery win would be needed however so not in the cards. Great vid squire.
Thanks James!
Tom, I appreciate the insight you and Scott provide to the Shopsmith Community. As a Mark 7 owner like you, I would be open to the
PowerPro 2.0 interface if it truly added more function. But as more information is released I can make a better decision.
I like the bigger more colorful interface but would like to see what operations it may interfere with. I like the idea of software updates. Shortly after I received my Mark 7, I captured the complete menu tree and found and error and some omissions (8” Dado and Biscuit Joiner). I took the information forward to Jim McCann and there wasn’t anything he could do other than provide me with the correct information or recommendations. So the ability to take feedback from the user community and offer updates would be great. I also never liked the use of the “Low Voltage” error message at shutdown. Not a very clean implementation. One last thing I would hope for is a screen like my iPad that rotates when you change orientation. How cool wold that be to have a vertical screen in the drill press, under/over table operations. Can’t wait for more information.
That's a great idea Steve, a rotating screen! I hope it's in there or could be included in an update.
I'm a PowerPro owner and I'm very intrigued by the 2.0 - I think having the ability to upgrade the software would be a huge benefit. However - I also study computer interfaces for a living, and let me tell you: having a power tool (any power tool) without an OFF button that you can't find by feel alone is really dangerous. The last thing you want when something doesn't feel right or you're in a "mission abort" situation is to be fumble around for the OFF button. And that's not even considering the 'zombie fingers' thing.
Hopefully, Shopsmith engineers have an elegant solution for that. That said, it's definitely something they could offer via a software upgrade!
There is always the physical power switch, or you can add an emergency power shut off button.
We still have the main power switch which is what I hit when I hung up a forstner bit, probably because that’s what I was used to pre power pro. I still somewhat hunt and peck when using power pro buttons.
I agree Mario, there's a lot to think about with this type of interface. Another issue would be visibility, we have place our finger over the thing we are selecting. How does the display interact with dirty finger prints for example?
this is easily mitigated though with an add on big off switch. Lots of tools don't have good emergency cutoffs, shopsmith isn't unique here. Even newish cabinet saws don't have ideal power cutoff buttons, but will sell better ones at added cost. oh well.
@@michaelbuddy You and others are correct, of course - one could easily put in an emergency switch between the PowerPro and the power outlet.
The challenge there is muscle memory. If one becomes accustomed to shutting off the PowerPro 2.0 between operations via the touchscreen - in an emergency situation, muscle memory will take over and that's what the first impulse will be. It would take a lot of repetition and habit building to go for the emergency switch first.
Touchscreens - especially those without haptic feedback - are not always the best interface for operating machinery. We're seeing this a lot in electric cars, for example.
Thought I had posted this earlier, oh well. There is an email special through 5/29 to save $25 off of the touchscreen upgrade.
Great info, I didn’t see that.
I share your concerns about the touch screen, although I have not had the Zombie fingers issue with any of my devices. Another aspect of the upgrade is the dust proof motor/speed sensor. I recently had to pull the motor on my Power Pro to access the speed control to clean it up and get the motor running again. I am hoping Shopsmith does a demo video that answers all our questions. I'm in no hurry to upgrade, but I am seriously considering it because of the new sensor, the software upgradeability, and hopefully a better easier to read interface. And so we wait. Blessings, Glen
I agree Glen, it’s early days yet hopefully Shopsmith will come out with some more information.
If you upgrade from gen 1 to gen 2, there is no change to the motor to prevent dust obscuring the sensor, and no new sensor. Please read my bug list on the Owner’s forum before deciding. I’m hoping to switch back.
@@terryperdue3726 Hi Terry, would you mind giving a link to your bug list? I am currently wrestling with the temptation to buy a Power Pro (or a Mark 7)...
Glad that you are still satisfied and the tool is still holding up!
I too have Zombie Finger. I have to sometimes lick my finger to use my phones touch screen… followed by a Sani-wipe when it gets too smudged!
Awesome update. Thanx Tom.
Thanks Dave! I've heard of the licking the fingers trick. Unfortunately, I know where my hands have been, can't do it. 😁😁😁😁
I also have a Mark 7 and I used to have a 510. Great review. Also your chair project is looking good.
Thank You!
Thanks for producing the content of your channel. I have only watched a small number of your videos, primarily when researching whether to buy a second hand Shopsmith. I have not purchased one yet but maybe someday.
Best of luck.
Tom, as always a great video. A lot of information to digest. I also appreciate your dialogue with the commenters. I learn a lot from the questions/comments and your responses..
Thanks you! Glad you like it.
At 10:08 your adjustable quill lever is easy to see. I believe the new quill feed pinion is longer for the lock handle to clear the new screen but if you zoom in it on the headstock pic on the website it still looks close and I wonder if your lever will be tight crossing the bottom of the new screen? Maybe it’s just camera angles. I think the new touchscreen projects out further than the original besides the screen itself being on a flat plane.
I believe you are correct, the quill feed is longer. Taking another look at the images, we can see a spacer on the shaft behind the lock knob. And that space is visible in the break-out photo of parts. Hmm. . . not sure I like that.
Thanks for explaining "zombie finger." I have this, too, and I always suspected it is because I play guitar and have callouses on my fingers (both hands, because I finger pick). After watching your video, I am more inclined to believe that this is the case.
You're welcome Dan. Glad you liked the video.
Tom, Really enjoy your videos. I think you do an excellent job in being fair and honest with your content. My experience with the PowerPro Headstock hasn’t gone well for me. In 2012, I chose the option of buying a new PowerPro headstock and just sliding old mechanical headstock off and replacing. Within the new warranty period I had to ship it back twice. I then got about 8-9 years of good use, but then had to replace the digital interface twice and about 9 months ago either the power supply or motor failed. Other than shipping back to ShopSmith, I have been able to find any information about how to diagnose which of the $ 800 - $ 1,000 parts I would need for an effective repair. Lucky for me I got my 1987 mechanical headstock of a box, went thru a full maintenance and it has been working for me once again. I wish ShopSmith would do a video on troubleshooting problems with the 1.0 version of the PowerPro. I sure hope that you have better luck with your PowerPro 1.0
Thanks Stanley, glad you like the videos. Sorry to hear about your troubles and I hope you get the PowerPro running again at some point.
Thanks Tom,
I too have zombie fingers. Not sure about the upgrade yet. I would like to know more about the diagnostic part. For my version there is very little help information but I have only had one issue so far with mine in 10 years.
That's good to hear Jim. And you showed how to clean up that problem on your channel!
Just a suggestion: any cheap "touchscreen stylus" will let you use a capacitive touchscreen without relying on your fingers. Buy one and hang it from the machine on a little leash and you'll never have to worry about it (or need to take your gloves off).
Great vid and update, Tom.
Thanks Scott!
Another great video, very interesting.
Thanks you Larry!
Thanks Tom, glad your enjoying your Mark 7!
Thanks Albert!
I agree with you on the mk5 can do almost everything the7 can so upgrade because you can aford it. Not because its cool.
Great adivce!
My Mark V 510 lives in large metal farm building that is not climate controlled. I’ve resisted upgrading to the PowerPro headstock because of almost exactly what you showed with the control face. I’m concerned about the overlay soft buttons deteriorating. I keep the 510 covered when not in use and serviced. Thanks for the review!!
That's a good point. Mine is in an attached garage sot it's partially climate controlled.
My Power Pro 1.0 is in a detached garage, unheated unless I'm going to be out there for a while. 5 yrs so far good.
@@castle5711 thanks for that information. It’s good to hear feedback on the PowerPro. I’m in north central TN so it’s hot summers and cold winters that it lives in. I do use a torpedo heater in the winter.
@@breakrite9785 Same weather here, not quite so humid ("it's a dry heat"). Wood stove in winter.
@breakrite9785 Great point, what does the manual say about climate storage?
I agree on the wait for the 2.0. My concern was sawdust getting on the screen and being a problem over time even after cleaning the dust off. Unfortunately when I upgrade it looks like I'll have to go 2.0.
I think it's too early to tell whether they will offer the PowerPro 1 along side the PowerPro 2. Also, I'm not sure this 2.0 is a hit with the community yet, could be it doesn't take off. I guess we will have to wait for more information.
Thanks Nerdery! Really appreciated this review.
Glad you liked it!
Thanks for the great video Tom. I have a 50th anniversary 520 and love it. I would like to upgrade to the Mark 7,but I can't justify the cost.
Thanks Mark. Your 520 is 10-12 years newer than my 510. That play's into it. Also, if you don't already have the magnetic rip scale upgrade, that is something to look at. And the double tilt does add some convenience functions. You don't have to have a PowerPro to take advantage of either of those.
Great review!!! Great points regarding the new touchscreen. I’ve ordered it and will see in a few months!
Thanks Todd, can't wait to see how it goes. Are you saying it will take a few months to arrive?
@@woodshopnerdery i called shopsmith and was told they begin to fill orders next friday (two weeks from my order). My past experiences have been processing and shipping out here to california is another two weeks. Work and other practical distractions will mean it’ll be another delay.
I suspect even this two after ordering is primarily to give guys like scott markwood a chance to do their videos (although scott was busy and actually turned down his offer).
Again I really appreciate your detailed practical and totally honest reviews - you really hit all the important points! Same with your rebuttal to malarke’s video, and the one with markwood. No machine is perfect, but i sure have a high regard for shopsmith whos stood the test of time! Also the backward compatibility once again with this latest iteration is a stark contrast to all the planned obsolescence in everything else!
@@woodshopnerdery upgrade arrived this afternoon!
Install video link has not been released and the package omitted a few things like templates and new warning stickers but everything is on its way! Im sure its going to get sorted out and amazing how they ALWAYS make everything backward compatible so never any planned obsolescence!
One thing that might help you in the shop is to have one of those capacitive stylus pens, that way you can use it on the machine without worrying about the state of your fingers (and how dirty they might be too). could probably attach one magnetically to the power unit for easy use and return. They don't require batteries or anything, the rubber nib in the stylus just has what it takes to activate capacitive screens. Some work gloves have it too for people in field construction, harsh environments, etc.
Great idea Michael.
@@woodshopnerdery I have been using the Shaper Origin router for several years now. It has a touch screen interface just like a phone and I have had no trouble with it. Very dependable and saw dust has not been an issue. I do use a stylus pen because my fingers are similar to yours and it gives me very precise control. If Shopsmith uses a similar display there should be no problem.
@@Sehast Great Info, thanks!
Nice review- thanks for the info!
Very informative, thank you!
Great information as always, thank you.
You’re welcome Richards. Thanks the the comment.
Great job. Very helpful.
Okay that disk sander on the chisel backs method is brilliant. Now I want the double-tilt even more.
That tilted table cut (8:26) is the one thing I really don't like about the ShopSmith system. I try to avoid it if at all possible, I'm just not comfortable.
I hear you Tim. It is an unusual setup.
Great video. I don't think I'll be upgrading from my 510 because it does everything I want it to and the cost of the upgrade.
However, I am so looking at the double tilt upgrade for the 510.
The double tilt does add some convenience features.
I know it's just a photo but it looks like on the power pro 2.0, the way it protrudes, the quill knob will run right into the head stock control interface.
It does look big. I think they made the quill feed shaft longer to make room.
In case you're still considering upgrading from PowerPro 1 to PP 2, here's a little more info that might help you decide. (Upgrading to PowerPro in general IS a big improvement.)
Aside from the obviously more attractive touch display, the new features are mostly concerned with helping you pick an appropriate run speed. It's like a more integrated version of the PP1's Chart function. Whether that and a prettier display adds over $400 worth of convenience is debatable. The screen is beautiful though, and I'm not missing the bubblewrap-like keys of the gen 1. But the current 2.1.1 version of the firmware is very buggy. Pressing any button (except for the up/down speed buttons) does not register until you remove your finger, which feels very odd to me. This is especially true when removing a saved Favorite, which you do by holding the corresponding button for two seconds. You'd expect a beep and the confirm prompt after 2 seconds, but nothing happens until you lift your finger - and not even then if you didn't wait long enough.
The Back button doesn't always take you back to the previous screen, but rather to the Favorites screen. There's an unnecessary confirmation step when selecting the Planer. There are misspelled words in the prompts, another that's poorly-arranged, and yet another that's incorrect (SELECT YOUR CUT TYPE should be SELECT YOUR MATERIAL). The running speed display is unnecessary, since it quickly tracks the Set speed, but it should at least be averaged over more samples so that it doesn't appear to be constantly 'hunting'. (The gen 1 was the same way.)
Mechanically, the circuit breaker and (redundant) fuseholder interfere with the bracket for the Shopsmith gooseneck lamp accessory. The woodruff key in the new spindle was incorrectly installed. The manual has installation steps that are out of order... You get the idea. And the USB port that's supposed to allow for firmware upgrades apparently isn't currently for the owner's use. (I was instructed to return mine for the upgrade - at their expense, but my downtime). I expect that will change though.
And that tiny STOP button is so much less safe than it needs to be. They should keep the START button small, especially since a touch screen can more easily be accidentally activated, but please make the STOP button as large as possible - and make it respond as soon as touched.
Once all these issues are resolved, if you want the latest and greatest user interface, I think you'll be happy with the upgrade. It will be similar to getting the next version of an iPhone. More flashy, but not necessarily a lot more useful.
Excellent presentation.
Thanks Berry
When sharpening chisels, I would not recommend sucking the metal dust into your Shopsmith dust collector.
True, True, David.
GREAT video, Tom! (No Malarky!... sorry, I couldn't resist!)
Please keep us up to date as you learn more about the Power Pro 2.0.
Sort of off topic, but did you use the sanding disk to flatten the chisels by hand or did you turn on the Shopsmith? If so, how did you support the chisels?
As a "hybrid" woodworker, I use hand tools a lot, which means I do a fair amount of sharpening. I have NEVER flattened the entire back of any chisel-way too much work! Yours look amazing! The cutting edge is the fine line where the plane of the back of the chisel intersects with the plane of the bevel of the chisel. Only the very end of the back needs to be flat.(?less than 1/4 inch?) In fact Japanese chisels are "hollow ground" on the back and only the edges of the sides and bevel become flat.
Ha! Good on James. I've not seen any new info on the PP 2.0 but will pass along anything I see.
Yes, to correct the problems with my chisels I did power on the disc sander at about 400 RPM (yeah PowerPro). I registered the entire back of the chisels on the disc heal first then tip. This did most of the work which I finished up on a 220 grit stone.
My sharpening has improved since I stopped listening to advice and thinking it through myself. What I found out the hard way is that most people confuse "flattening" with "polishing" and say you only need to "flatten" the very tip of the chisel/plane iron. That is wrong in my opinion, it should be "you only need to polish the very tip of the iron." What I have learn to do is flatten 2-3 inches of a plane iron, and the entire back of the chisel. Then polish only close to the tip for a keen edge.
For chisels I want the back flat so I can use the back as a reference bed such as when using a squaring block to cut mortise at 90 degrees.
For bevel up plane irons I want the back flat so it lays on the plane bed evenly to reduce chatter.
For bevel down plan irons I want a flat back for accurate fitment of the chip breaker.
For all of these a flat back makes removing the burr after honing the bevel much more dependable.
The polish you see in the video was unintentional. I was doing a log of chisel work on the chair project, including end grain. So I was stropping ALOT using a 15K water-based diamond paste. Because the back was accurately flat, the polish came up over the many repeated stropping sessions.
@@woodshopnerdery You are absolutely right! I am one of those who has confused flattening with polishing! My Bad!
Your chisels do look great!
Your wait and see approach to the latest upgrade is wise. After all, your used your first Shop Smith system for a few years before upgrading. Regarding equipment cost, comparing it to boats would put you in a 1000 sqr ft shop with your current tools plus a Felder sliding table saw, a monster bandsaw, and anything else you could fit in there. I owned a couple of boats and they have no top end with cost. I’m a small shop woodworker and the 2 bicycles I have costs more than my table saw, jointer, planer, bandsaw and dust extractor. But it’s all fun stuff!
Hobbies can get expensive, that is for sure. I'm definitely don't have enough information to say "Yes" to the 2.0 right now.
Tom did you remove the thin plastic film that protects the screen during shipping?
Hmmm good thought. Honestly, I don’t remember but I can say there is no film on my PowerPro screen today.
My PP screen is the same way. I always thought it was done by design. Curt.
@@curttundra hmmm interesting…
Hi Tom, My name is Roger and I have a Mark V since 1985 and have upgraded it to a 520S and added the power pro 1.0. About a year after I install it my self (which was about 1 1/2 after i purchased it) I start getting a display problem when I use the motor for too long or if it is hot out a shorter timr frame. The display cycles through the startup sequence and flashes and just keeps repeating this untill I turn it off ley it cool the startup again. I do not get any error codes. Have you heard of this issue with the PP v1.0? I do like the extra power and speed control of the PP v1. Thanks for your review.
A question and a comment. I have a 10-ER and a Model 510 and use a foot switch for lathe work. Is there any way to do the same on a PowerPro?
Comment: thanks for the bit on the under-table configuration. I realize there are a couple abilities of my old machines that I haven't discovered yet.
Item: Do you any woodturning? How's the 1-year performance on that aspect?
No, I wish I had more time to get into wood turning. At least I have the equipment for it one day down the road.
I notice the Zombie Finger effect on my phone screen, when my hands are a bit grubby...
Too true, Ed. And grubby is just how things are in the workshop.
So the display can not be turned when you flip from sanding to drill press?
How do you drive the joiner on the right side of the headstock ? There is no lower spindle to drive it.
The latest (only?) firmware version (2.1.1) is buggy. The ‘buttons’ don’t operate properly, and the prompts are inconsistant, with at least two misspelled words. If you decide to upgrade, I suggest that you wait until they correct the issues. I wish someone had warned me.
Isn't quieter also?
Tom, a question for you. I just got my power pro 1.0 two months ago. I see you’re just over a year with your mk7. How often do you clean out your headstock? I’ve heard of many people having sawdust problems. I haven’t yet. Also, how do you accomplish this task. I’d sure like to go over a year without problems. Thanks.
I think I blew it out once, not much came out. Probably due for another blow out. I do it the same as I did on the mechanical headstock. I open up the back emblem and remove the belt cover. Then I use a Worx Shop Blow from all angles to blow the dust.
www.worx.com/20v-cordless-shop-blower-wx094l.html
Thank you
Hi Tom
Do you know the SS part number for the overhead dust collector part or the correct nomination ?
Hi Dale, you can find the part on this page. It's item "A" www.shopsmith.com/ownersite/catalog/rm_prorouteraccessories.htm
Thank you much, nice positive review, I feel the same way.
Does your PowerPro Ver 1 come with a fuse and an overload installed on the opposite side of the PowerPro control panel?
In the new upgrade to the Ver 2, a fuse and an overload is installed on the opposite side of the panel. A new upgrade video by Jim released today shows the installing of the fuse and the overload. Wouldn’t this be good for the Ver 1 owners, since it would be added protection for the motor and the other electronics? It was not in the Ver 1 kit.
Great point William! I’m not sure how circuitry protection is accomplished on the v1. Honestly I haven’t had any reason to take it apart.
@@woodshopnerdery If you look at a picture of the Ver 1 upgrade kit, you do not see any fuse holder and overload items. But the Ver 2 you do. They need to be accessible externally, so if yours has nothing on the backside, then there probably is nothing in version 1. Looks like it is a design change in the new upgrade.
From the Ver 2 brochure: Fuse and Overload Protection - The Thermal Overload Protector prevents damage from electrical surges motor overheating. Easy push-button reset after Motor cools.
@@williamtisher2012 the v1 has built in protection. I’m just not sure how it is accomplished. About 10 months ago I cover an over heat message on my PowerPro on the Community tab of my channel.
@@woodshopnerdery The DVR would have protection in it like a VFD does. Maybe they decided to put some external protection on the incoming line to avoid problems hurting the DVR itself. They may have had some DVR failures since the Gen1 came out and this is their way to improve the PowerPro going forward. Or it may be a compliance deal going forward.
@@williamtisher2012 I wonder too if the touch screen electronics require more protective safe gaurds?
Using the knuckles of your hand instead of your finger pads solves Zombie fingers!
be careful in that position with the disc sander. Looks precarious.
Thanks Michael, it does have its hazards and an extra measure of caution should be used.
Price is never a consideration for me when buying something I will have for 40 years.