The downside to mechanical for gravel is any ingress point in the housing will gather up all the small debris from gravel burning through cables and housing faster
Everyone commenting that Shimano competitors have been doing this for years. Well Toyota has been doing the same thing & look how reliable their products are. id rather have tried and true tested products for reliability than the new toys with unknown long term reliability.
I have 810 GRX 11 speed, with 11-42 and 40 upfront never felt I need more. But i ride Road, Gravel and MTB, maybe I am just used to grinding up the hills not cadencing it… 😂
GRX 810 on my training\gravel bike with11-46 plus 46T chairing. It works well but DI2 is another level and bigger cassettes lead to more efficient chain line.
That would be a massive derailleur cage to be able to keep chain tension from the small-small and not lock up on the big-big. It'd be pretty close to the ground and a very long chain.
Totally agree, this would have been my expectations in 2x, together with cranks 165. I'll keep the 11s with 11/40 at the rear and 46/30 in the front /Grx 600 without any modification of the original components
I've put a few thousand miles on the GRX 12 speed with the 10-51 cassette, and am in love with it. I'd love electronic, but Shimano seems to have reserved that for their 2x GRX kit.
Who has done a 12 speed groupset for drop bars before that is mechanical? Sram didn't, you could only mod a 1x11 sram shifter to accept a 12 speed cassete with ratio kits and campagnolos ekar is great, but not reliable enough for bike packing since it needs to be adjusted alot.
In January 2021 I bought a Campagnolo Chorus 12 speed mechanical group set; it even came with rim brakes. Super Record and Record were also available with 12 speed at that time.
Too me, that whole package with the large rear cassette looks horrible, I prefer my big ring on the front. 2x looks so much better with a std 11/32 or 34 cassette on the rear. As for that paint job, what were Cannondale thinking? For those that have come into gravel from possibly the MTB side of things and not the road side, 105 or Ultegra compact group sets work fine on gravel, you can even fit an RX rear clutch derailleur, you don't need the GRX group sets that Shimano is offering. I run a mix of 105/Ultegra compact 11 speed and the only hills I can't ride up are the ones that l loose traction on.
If your hills are long enough you want the easier gearing. If your terrain is rough enough you want the extra chain retention of a narrow-wide chainring. Getting up steep loose sections it is really important to have smooth pedal strokes that you can't get while standing up - low gearing lets you go steeper while staying seated with higher cadence and smoother power delivery.
For the price, I’d go electronic with SRAM Rival AXS XPLR. Needs microspline, so to upgrade I would need to change my HG hub anyway. Fine if you’re buying a new bike, not that interesting to upgrade from 11s.
I do get your point, but coming from an Sram Rival AXS I can tell you that I would choose a 12speed GRX mechanical just for the brakes. The Sram Brakes are just a joke if you compare them to Shimano. Also having 51 as biggest gear instead of 42 is not that interesting? I am wondering what kind of sorcery manufacturers should invent in order to make people not say "it's the same"...
When is is likely that these new groupsets will become an option for off the shelf bikes from the likes of Canyon and Giant, will we have to wait for next year?
Canyon website is saying Sept/Nov so a few months www.canyon.com/en-gb/road-bikes/race-bikes/ultimate/cf-sl/ultimate-cf-sl-7/3790.html?dwvar_3790_pv_rahmenfarbe=R101_P01
If Shimano have only 1 version of their mtb derailleurs fpr both the 10-51 and 10-45 why would the larger gravel derailleur not manage both cassettes? Am I missing something?
Its at 44t Shimano seems to draw the line. Also, I don't think its necessarily a hard line. I've run a 46 on a GRX RD and up to a 50t with a goatlink which Wolftooth also says shouldn't work. Shimano compatibility charts are more about maintaining premium feel than they are about what actually can work together.
Does this have the same pull ratio as Shimano 11 speed? If so couldn't you just get the new GRX 820 RD and pair it up with a bigger 11 speed cassette in order to gain lower gearing without the use of a GoatLink/derailleur hanger extender?
considering buying a new bike Looking at Merida Scultura Endurance How is GRX820 vs. 105di2 Or should I go a further level down to GRX610. I would categorize myself as a medium enthusiastic, finished some local tours of about 180km within 7hrs.
I have Shimano GRX 1x12 speed with 10-45 cassette (microspline) on my Canon grail. I would like to upgrade my wheelset - any sugestions? I like ZIP 303 Firecrest but is not microspline compatable?
I would have liked to have seen this bike assembled with (or had some information about) a dropper post, operated by the left hand lever. Presumably this group set will have that option, as the lever design is unchanged. Answers please. Thank you.
when you, like me, weight 95kg and have a "recreationnal" level of fitness. I use a custom 42/26 with a 36 (= 0,72 ratio) and that's still not low enough to climb long 8 to 10% ramps in stuff that requires cadence rather than brute force. 40/51 = 0,78 btw
@@PrzemyslawSliwinski I live near the mountains and 0.86 ratio is still not enough for me to climb on steep loose gravel uphills. And I love the simplicity of 1x.
@@philhunt1442 Could have lasted even longer if durability were priority ;) Our durability standards are messed up by bike industry. I wonder if Shimano will keep their promises about durability with CUES parts.
I wonder how can you praise its price - 1350£ - while you think Campag needs to introduce a more budget version of Ekar, the same Ekar that is already sold for 900£???
Who on earth wants electronic gears? Apart from a pro rider in a peloton with team back up, spare bikes, etc? You either press a lever or press a button, the difference is on your own, out in the real world reliability and simplicity. Mechanical every time, I've got mechanical Ultegra on 2016 and 2018 roadbikes, I've never even had to adjust the cables, they just work 👍
An electronic alternative to this for £1000: Sram Apex XPLR derailleur, Force chain, levers, brakes, crankset, rotors Rival XPLR cassette. Thats a 1x 40 up front, 10-44 cassette. Weight comes in at about 2.6kg!
Im pretty sure you can shift the 10-45 cassette with the longer cage as well. I’m running a 11-46 on my 11s Grx and I do have a long garbaruk cage on and it works just fine 👌🏼
@@serpadu standard GRX-812 1x11. I got bike with 11/42t casette and it was to hard for uphills. I only changed casette for11/51t and did some screw correction - it works.
I sold half year ago my 2005 10 speed 105 road bike. Shifting performance was decent and quite comparable to my r8020 Ultegra. Electric groupsets are waist of money to me
@@lucp8576 all of my riding mates have Sram axw or Shimano di2. Not my cup of tea. I will go to Sram someday axs but have You tired latest r8020 mechanical/hydraulic Ultegra?
People will ride the 10-45 cassette on their gravel bike and not realize why they hate it so much. Subconsciously, they’ll be feeling, “I chose the close-step cassette. But even at 12 speeds I can’t seem to find the right gear, especially towards the middle of the cassette.” Hmm... 🤔
Why would anyone want expensive, harder to maintain and no more reliable electronic shifting. The whole point of a bicycle for me is freedom and simplicity. I really dislike the direction bikes are taking and I will switch to any brand that offers simple and effective mechanical components. Otherwise you'll soon have to book your bike in for a service with a mechnic who will need to plug it into a laptop like a car which would be complete madness
@@cdeluise it finds a solution to a problem that never existed. Besides why would you want to remember to charge a battery and potentially run out of battery during a ride. And the cost of electric gears, complete con. But each to their own
What is innovative about adding a cog? That's not innovation. Innovation is taking an entire suite of gear ranges across two different techs (mtb/road) and collapsing it all into a cross compatible ecosystem (Shimano CUES). Who gets a 12 cog first is the type of shit that makes smooth brains interested, its not real innovation.
I respectly disagree ; Toyota has innovated both in quality management, production methods and technologies (think hybrid drivetrains). Not innovating in a competitive and increasingly technology-driven market like the bike industry can have consequences. Luckily for Shimano, competition in the bike drivetrain market is very limited with only 2 large actors and some smaller ones.@@Notadrianmonroy
I think this is a typically conservative and overly complicated Shimano thing. It will work beautifully though. The bad bits - using 2 different freehubs and having 3 different rear derailleur types across 2 different product groups is just daft. Also the ratios available are duff; there should be a bigger 1x ring than 42, and the 2x crankset ratios are all wrong (48 is too big and 31 is too small, the 2 rings should be closer together like a 44/34). The 10-45 makes sense but a narrower 1x offering would be good too, like a 10-40 for example. Really, they should just bite the bullet and go fully 1x.
"new " ? :)))) Old grx crankset.... xt mtb rear dereuler with grx logo and Xt mtb cassette :DDD LOL.. one new thing is shifter.... possible from new 105 12 speed mechanical groupset
May as well go with XTR 10-51, over 100g lighter. The GRX one is Deore XT.
Mechanical makes a lot of sense on gravel or CX bikes that get bashed up and might also get used for long endurance events....
The downside to mechanical for gravel is any ingress point in the housing will gather up all the small debris from gravel burning through cables and housing faster
The colors on that kit look amazing! Suits you well too!
I see what you did there.
Everyone commenting that Shimano competitors have been doing this for years.
Well Toyota has been doing the same thing & look how reliable their products are.
id rather have tried and true tested products for reliability than the new toys with unknown long term reliability.
Why did they make that topstone look like an ebike?
I have 810 GRX 11 speed, with 11-42 and 40 upfront never felt I need more. But i ride Road, Gravel and MTB, maybe I am just used to grinding up the hills not cadencing it… 😂
Same. I've got GRX 11 speed on my Nukeproof Digger. Excellent groupset. Love the 1x option to use the left shifter to operate a dropper post.
GRX 810 on my training\gravel bike with11-46 plus 46T chairing. It works well but DI2 is another level and bigger cassettes lead to more efficient chain line.
@@wsbygt for a better chain line on big rides I use 44T upfront.
If you ever felt the need for a larger cassette, you could also always increase the range of the 810/812 derailleurs by getting a Garbaruk cage.
@@lesand5484 I know and I have one with oversized pulleys, thanks!
Why does the 2x only go to 36? With a loaded bike up hills a 11-42 would be nice.
Just spotted no 165 cranks at the top level, surely in this day and age 155, 165 should be standard options as well as the 170+
MAYBE, the new grx sti can be compatible with m8120 or m7120 or rx812. The rx812 can pull 2x 50/34 - 11/46 without modifiction, just mule them.
That would be a massive derailleur cage to be able to keep chain tension from the small-small and not lock up on the big-big. It'd be pretty close to the ground and a very long chain.
Totally agree, this would have been my expectations in 2x, together with cranks 165. I'll keep the 11s with 11/40 at the rear and 46/30 in the front /Grx 600 without any modification of the original components
@@joellevg3698Yep, this is the way
I've put a few thousand miles on the GRX 12 speed with the 10-51 cassette, and am in love with it. I'd love electronic, but Shimano seems to have reserved that for their 2x GRX kit.
Looking a bit too excited about this 😂
David said the quiet part out loud regarding how good mechanical really is (when done right that is).
Who said mechanical shifting was dead? Time to buy the old 11 speed GRX for my CaadX!
It looks great but I can't see a reason to upgrade from my 3x8 set up
I do ride 3x9 and hope Shimano will have the replacement parts in offer for at least ten years.
Once you ditch the front you never go back..
@@PrzemyslawSliwinski just stock up now
@@Nick-lm9hg I did!
@@Leo-gt1bx If you never go back, you have never needed them.
And that's okay.
Good news that you can use any Shimano mtb 12-speed cassettes and chains with it.
Hoping to see DI2 option. GRX Di2 shifters are so leet!
Personally, I'm pleased as punch with GRX 810 mech. Never dropped a chain, shifts are crips. 🤷♂
I want to put 2x up front with the 10-51 in the rear for a touring bike
Thanks for the review. Curious if you'd recommend the 1x 10-51 or the 2x for a mixed gravel/road/bikepacking setup? Cheers.
Finally, Shimano makes the product everyone else has done for years
Who has done a 12 speed groupset for drop bars before that is mechanical? Sram didn't, you could only mod a 1x11 sram shifter to accept a 12 speed cassete with ratio kits and campagnolos ekar is great, but not reliable enough for bike packing since it needs to be adjusted alot.
Not in mechanical, I had to modify my sram shifters to put mechanical eagle on my gravel bike.
@@hannorasmusholtiegel6044 yeah, it's not like Sram Apex xplr has already been announced with a mechanical option after all.
In January 2021 I bought a Campagnolo Chorus 12 speed mechanical group set; it even came with rim brakes. Super Record and Record were also available with 12 speed at that time.
@@jackzagorski7897 had no clutch, was not robust enough for gravel and gravel needs disc brakes.
Seems like a good groupset, i would definitely consider this if i was in the market for a new gravel group.
Does GRX STIs have the same cable pull as the mtb SLX/XT/XTR RDs?
Good question. Previous gen was road pull of course.
Indeed… can I use the 12 speed mtb Rd instead?
The GRX seems to have the same cage as the XT so quite possibly.
Too me, that whole package with the large rear cassette looks horrible, I prefer my big ring on the front. 2x looks so much better with a std 11/32 or 34 cassette on the rear. As for that paint job, what were Cannondale thinking? For those that have come into gravel from possibly the MTB side of things and not the road side, 105 or Ultegra compact group sets work fine on gravel, you can even fit an RX rear clutch derailleur, you don't need the GRX group sets that Shimano is offering. I run a mix of 105/Ultegra compact 11 speed and the only hills I can't ride up are the ones that l loose traction on.
50 - 36 105 is ideal gravel gearing
@@energylab6277 You mean the front? Std compact is 50/34 which is what I run with a 32 on the rear, sometimes a 34 rear for a mixed terrain race.
@@gregmorrison7320 11/40 slx casette perfect grx600 46/30
If your hills are long enough you want the easier gearing. If your terrain is rough enough you want the extra chain retention of a narrow-wide chainring. Getting up steep loose sections it is really important to have smooth pedal strokes that you can't get while standing up - low gearing lets you go steeper while staying seated with higher cadence and smoother power delivery.
Are those optimal angles for rear mech cable to be routed?
For the price, I’d go electronic with SRAM Rival AXS XPLR.
Needs microspline, so to upgrade I would need to change my HG hub anyway.
Fine if you’re buying a new bike, not that interesting to upgrade from 11s.
I do get your point, but coming from an Sram Rival AXS I can tell you that I would choose a 12speed GRX mechanical just for the brakes. The Sram Brakes are just a joke if you compare them to Shimano. Also having 51 as biggest gear instead of 42 is not that interesting? I am wondering what kind of sorcery manufacturers should invent in order to make people not say "it's the same"...
When is is likely that these new groupsets will become an option for off the shelf bikes from the likes of Canyon and Giant, will we have to wait for next year?
Canyon website is saying Sept/Nov so a few months www.canyon.com/en-gb/road-bikes/race-bikes/ultimate/cf-sl/ultimate-cf-sl-7/3790.html?dwvar_3790_pv_rahmenfarbe=R101_P01
If Shimano have only 1 version of their mtb derailleurs fpr both the 10-51 and 10-45 why would the larger gravel derailleur not manage both cassettes? Am I missing something?
Its at 44t Shimano seems to draw the line. Also, I don't think its necessarily a hard line. I've run a 46 on a GRX RD and up to a 50t with a goatlink which Wolftooth also says shouldn't work. Shimano compatibility charts are more about maintaining premium feel than they are about what actually can work together.
Shimano makes both a GS and SGS cage length for 12sp mtb derailleurs as well.
Cage length.
Does this have the same pull ratio as Shimano 11 speed? If so couldn't you just get the new GRX 820 RD and pair it up with a bigger 11 speed cassette in order to gain lower gearing without the use of a GoatLink/derailleur hanger extender?
MTB cassette & derailleur plus drop-handlebar shifters. Is it that Simple ?
considering buying a new bike
Looking at Merida Scultura Endurance
How is GRX820 vs. 105di2
Or should I go a further level down to GRX610.
I would categorize myself as a medium enthusiastic, finished some local tours of about 180km within 7hrs.
Can't see sany point, upgrading from 2x 11 speed GRX. Also 1X is still far from being a good allround solution, except MTB-s.
I still like mechanical on gravel and MTB just keep my di2 for road
I wonder if the new GRX STI shifters will be compatible to MTB RDs like Deore and XT?
How is it on the flat road surface, I have a gravel bike but mainly ride road
I have Shimano GRX 1x12 speed with 10-45 cassette (microspline) on my Canon grail. I would like to upgrade my wheelset - any sugestions? I like ZIP 303 Firecrest but is not microspline compatable?
I would have liked to have seen this bike assembled with (or had some information about) a dropper post, operated by the left hand lever.
Presumably this group set will have that option, as the lever design is unchanged.
Answers please. Thank you.
Yes it does have a dropper option
@davidarthur What will be better ? But canyon grizl 6 with sram apex 1x12 ore more expensive canyon grizl 8 grx 1x12 ?
Will the 1x11 be discontinued? I can't this information anywhere.
2:40 - when, for gravel's sake, one needs 51t?
when you, like me, weight 95kg and have a "recreationnal" level of fitness. I use a custom 42/26 with a 36 (= 0,72 ratio) and that's still not low enough to climb long 8 to 10% ramps in stuff that requires cadence rather than brute force.
40/51 = 0,78 btw
@@tinatpasselepoivre So you will probably select one of the 2x versions anyway...
@@PrzemyslawSliwinski I live near the mountains and 0.86 ratio is still not enough for me to climb on steep loose gravel uphills. And I love the simplicity of 1x.
Try dura you will love it more😊
Superb 👍🤘🏻🙏
You’ll be pleased to see the 105 mechanical 12 speed then, David.
Can get 12 speed mechanical for £499 now just no rim brake option which is a bit crap.
It’ll be interesting to see how people get on with the larger black cassette gears for gravel riding. My mtb cassettes don’t last 500 miles 😢
That’s odd. Should be getting several thousand out of an mtb cassette.
Abrasion from dirt etc. is messing them up real fast. Also, high end stuff is too light weight to be durable enough.
good lord sram eagle x01 cassettes last 6 times longer @@michwoz
@@philhunt1442 Could have lasted even longer if durability were priority ;) Our durability standards are messed up by bike industry. I wonder if Shimano will keep their promises about durability with CUES parts.
Just use the all-steel deore cassette, yeah it's a bit heavier but it lasts forever.
Di2 or axs?
nice Lab71 Topstone
I wonder how can you praise its price - 1350£ - while you think Campag needs to introduce a more budget version of Ekar, the same Ekar that is already sold for 900£???
I was comparing RRP prices not discounted prices which are always worth shopping around for
@@davidarthurWould you recommend this new GRX over the Ekar based on current market prices?
Who on earth wants electronic gears? Apart from a pro rider in a peloton with team back up, spare bikes, etc? You either press a lever or press a button, the difference is on your own, out in the real world reliability and simplicity. Mechanical every time, I've got mechanical Ultegra on 2016 and 2018 roadbikes, I've never even had to adjust the cables, they just work 👍
An electronic alternative to this for £1000:
Sram Apex XPLR derailleur,
Force chain, levers, brakes, crankset, rotors
Rival XPLR cassette.
Thats a 1x 40 up front, 10-44 cassette. Weight comes in at about 2.6kg!
Good vid and I really like that cannondale bike. What is the weight? Size tires? And cost of the total setup
Im pretty sure you can shift the 10-45 cassette with the longer cage as well. I’m running a 11-46 on my 11s Grx and I do have a long garbaruk cage on and it works just fine 👌🏼
I changed casette for 11-51T Deore and nothing more. Garbaruk is very expensive.
@@chriskros8858with the short cage derailleur? I’m buying a bike that comes with the 10-45 cassette.
@@serpadu standard GRX-812 1x11. I got bike with 11/42t casette and it was to hard for uphills. I only changed casette for11/51t and did some screw correction - it works.
I sold half year ago my 2005 10 speed 105 road bike. Shifting performance was decent and quite comparable to my r8020 Ultegra. Electric groupsets are waist of money to me
have you tried them ?
@@lucp8576 all of my riding mates have Sram axw or Shimano di2. Not my cup of tea. I will go to Sram someday axs but have You tired latest r8020 mechanical/hydraulic Ultegra?
10/51?!? Did I misunderstand that?
Yes, that's been their MTB cassette for quite some time.
@@koltface wow, I have not been paying sufficient attention to 1x groupsets.
In 10 years: I forgot how good rim brakes are, they are actually better than disc brakes. :o
lol
David, I didn’t hear you mention that Campag Ekar is 13-speed. Kinda relevant if you’re comparing them, no?
Is this the same bike Gee Milner just released a video building?
It's not but interesting to see he use the same frame
People will ride the 10-45 cassette on their gravel bike and not realize why they hate it so much. Subconsciously, they’ll be feeling, “I chose the close-step cassette. But even at 12 speeds I can’t seem to find the right gear, especially towards the middle of the cassette.” Hmm... 🤔
XT is way better. Much more versatile and less restricted. I will never use GRX.
Why would anyone want expensive, harder to maintain and no more reliable electronic shifting. The whole point of a bicycle for me is freedom and simplicity. I really dislike the direction bikes are taking and I will switch to any brand that offers simple and effective mechanical components. Otherwise you'll soon have to book your bike in for a service with a mechnic who will need to plug it into a laptop like a car which would be complete madness
Shimano Di2 is both more reliable & easier to maintain than their mechanical counterparts.
@@cdeluise it finds a solution to a problem that never existed. Besides why would you want to remember to charge a battery and potentially run out of battery during a ride. And the cost of electric gears, complete con. But each to their own
I don't want another thing on my bike that I need to remember to charge, especially if it controls the drive train.
Aged folks afraid of proven technology😬
Bicycles also used to be about being eco friendly rather than a series of batteries.
Pero en que sueño estáis.....es una bici de mtb con manillar de carretera, os estáis volviendo locos con el puto gravel
I think your saddle is too high mate
Nah it’s fine mate 👌
@@davidarthurhave you had a bike fit?
Did they run out of paint on that bike? good lord that’s ugly.
That rear mech cable routing is messing with my OCD.
At this point Shimano is just catching up to the competition, years later. They still make very solid products, they are just not very innovative.
What is innovative about adding a cog? That's not innovation. Innovation is taking an entire suite of gear ranges across two different techs (mtb/road) and collapsing it all into a cross compatible ecosystem (Shimano CUES). Who gets a 12 cog first is the type of shit that makes smooth brains interested, its not real innovation.
that’s pretty much how Toyota have been doing things. look how reliable MOST Toyotas are/were.
I respectly disagree ; Toyota has innovated both in quality management, production methods and technologies (think hybrid drivetrains). Not innovating in a competitive and increasingly technology-driven market like the bike industry can have consequences. Luckily for Shimano, competition in the bike drivetrain market is very limited with only 2 large actors and some smaller ones.@@Notadrianmonroy
I think this is a typically conservative and overly complicated Shimano thing. It will work beautifully though. The bad bits - using 2 different freehubs and having 3 different rear derailleur types across 2 different product groups is just daft. Also the ratios available are duff; there should be a bigger 1x ring than 42, and the 2x crankset ratios are all wrong (48 is too big and 31 is too small, the 2 rings should be closer together like a 44/34). The 10-45 makes sense but a narrower 1x offering would be good too, like a 10-40 for example. Really, they should just bite the bullet and go fully 1x.
Electronic off road is a bit of risk. If your bike claps out it's not so easy to get help.
mechanical all the way
11 speed 2x 46/30 to 40t cassette beats this any day
I’ve got a 9/50 on mine this shimano overpriced
Bro is packing
Anything that is not made in China costs too much. We must like paying high prices for goods by the way things are going.
"new " ? :)))) Old grx crankset.... xt mtb rear dereuler with grx logo and Xt mtb cassette :DDD LOL.. one new thing is shifter.... possible from new 105 12 speed mechanical groupset
It just looks awful though
There's plenty to trigger the roadies here , 1x, 51t 😂😂😂