This Batman Comic Has A Big Mistake!
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- Опубліковано 10 сер 2024
- Cursed Panels returns with a look back at Detective Comics 327 and a pretty big Batman error. This silver age comic signaled a changing of the editorial guard for the caped crusader over at DC Comics. The Dark Knight went from Jack Schiff to Julius Schwartz and the comic moves from sci fi to more mystery style stories, but that transition came with some growing pains. We take a look at the mistake and the response here on Casually Comics!
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0:00 Intro
3:16 The Story
8:30 Cursed Panel
12:22 The Mistake
16:02 The Conclusion
18:23 Bonus Letter
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What's the most out there comic book error you've seen?
Danny Ketch retrospective 😭😭😭
When people don’t spell correctly
Calling this an error is the biggest error I've seen!
Bruce doesn't actually shoot anyone, he merely brandishes his enemy's chosen weapon at them to get them to settle down!
(Geez I sound like Britt Mayo)
TBH you could argue that Diana's mod era was a mistake and ooh girl let's not get started with poor dear sad old Donna Troy
Spiderman beating down Firelord (a lesser known Herald of Galactus) with his bare fists. This was justified by his spidey sense telling him where to punch. I was around ten years old when I read that issue, and even I was like "Well, that's just silly."
@@na5567 Not what you are looking for, but I second it. I think the first volume of Ketch GR is great!
"I liked how Batman held a gun on people. I hope that happens more often."
- Joe "No Chill" Murray
I hope he lived to see Thomas Wayne Batman. He'd be so psyched.
I absolutely love the name *Joe "No Chill" Murray.* It's too perfect.
It would have been great if her boyfriend had been Jimmy Olsen and when he was disappearing was because he was turning into a turtle.
Brilliant.
Or a gorilla
"And he would have gotten away with it if it weren't for those meddling vigilantes!"
Love it.
You mess with the Bat you get the gat.
Don't give them any ideas.
Now the parts of me that are a batman fan and the parts of me that love alteration are at war
A. someone needs to tell Jimmy and his fiance that choosing to live in any part of _Gotham_ is a sketchy decision at best. (in or out of the "village.") And going out at night to stop crime in _Gotham_ is a life-long, all-consuming endeavor.
B. If the "X" is only on Batman's cowl, why would that affect the motor center of his brain?
Why wouldn't he just wear a different one?
Screenwriter Guy: _Because the plot needs to happen_
@KasumiKenshirou if only Batman's _cowl_ was embued with the controlling radioactive agent. And if it had NEVER made any physical contact with him (as it had with Robin's actual bare forehead... leaving Robin vulnerable to the controlling agent), then Batman should have remained unaffected and uncontrollable.
The concept that the villain would die as a result of his own actions actually began with the Shadow radio show, which began in 1937 with Orson Welles ( creator of Citizen Kane) as the Shadow. The radio show fell under the Hayes Code, which meant that the hero couldn't shoot down the bad guy on the air, unlike the pulps, where killing was acceptable. Therefore, the Shadow radio show had to come up with clever ways for the Shadow to trick the villain (often using his hypnotic illusion powers) into electrocuting themselves or blowing themselves up or falling out a window, or something like that.
That would happen in the Doc Savage pulps of the 1930s as well. That way Doc's hands are clean but the villain got their "just reward".
@@matthewhood7844 Doc Savage also had an aversion to killing, as he was an actual doctor and took "First, do no harm" seriously.
@@matthewhood7844 True.
you mean the code seriously@@ianfinrir8724
This is interesting because in the pulps magazine The Shadow killed criminals with your pistols all the time.
Gotta be blunt here. 40 years of reading comics, watching cartoons, and watching movies about Batman, and the thing I hate the most is when people write him using guns.
I find it fascinating that a gun in Batman’s hand is just fundamentally wrong, while it perfectly fits The Shadow … so different nowadays despite their early similarities.
"An ear in the fireplace... he must be on the roof!"
Sasha. Imy wife and I are big fans of your videos. I have collected comics from 1969 on and I love your deep dive into classics I read as a kid. I enjoyed this one very much and wanted to give you another lead if I may. In Detective comics 417, called "Batman for a night" from November 1971 Story Frank Robbins, Pencils Bob Brown, Inks Dick Giordano, Lettering John Costanza, Editing Julius Schwartz . Jan Paxton (first appearance; a reporter who becomes Batman for a night) in one scene as he is fighting the bad guys he picks up a gun and the thugs yell "You ain't the Batman. Everyone knows the Batman don't use guns." it is a very strong scene and it hammers home who they are trying to make the Batman. Hope you find this useful. Thank you again for the hours of enjoyment revisiting the stories that I loved as a kid.
"Fenton" is an objectively funny name which makes it even better.
Wasn’t that the name of the father of the Hardy Boys?
@@AlexanderOsiasAlso the name of the dog chasing deer in Richmond Park, being pursued by his owner, yelling, "Fenton! FENTON!"
That's Gizmo-Duck's secret identity.
Pretty sure it's also the last name of Danny Phantom's family
Danny Ketch Retrospective.
Johnny had a gun.
Looks like you had a great time in this vid. I did too! The historical elements you brought to the fore were fascinating. The why is as important to me as the what. I love to hear the deets behind unusual editorial and artistic decisions. Regarding gun-toting Batman, I'm fine with certain heroes using guns, like the Punisher or Sgt. Rock. But the Punisher is a vengeful antihero, and Sgt. Rock is a soldier, so those choices make sense. Guns are largely out of place for superheroes, who rely on their powers to overcome evil. Using a gun takes focus off of their powers. Though Batman has no superhuman powers, he's established as relying on his martial arts, detective skills, and Bat-tech. Guns would likewise take focus off of these elements that make Batman interesting.
The Bat Glock to put people in the Bat morgue
that salty letter holy shit XD its funny how people act as if fans being extremely passionate both in a positive and negative way is a new thing when fandom truly never changes in some aspects lol. I mean I will forever remind people that fanfic isnt like a new thing, Dantes inferno is literally a self insert fanfic XD
The only gun Batman should have is his trusty grappling gun.
There have been other times Batman held a gun. There was the interesting Batman Year Two which he teamed up with Joe Chill and learned shooting from him! And, more recently, there was that panel that happened in Infinite Crisis when he thought Dick Grayson had been killed and pulled a gun on Alexander Luthor...actually held it to his head and was about to pull the trigger before Nightwing talked him down. It was a good moment. Also, as an English major, I loved that you correctly used "couth" in your video! Bravo!
Someone send this video to Zack Snyder and any other person who thinks Batman should be another Punisher
Meanwhile Alfred keeping fully loaded shotguns all over the place 😅
And you know what? Looking at Batman holding a gun for one during just a couple pannels, somehow doesn't feel as bad as looking at Captain Boomerang being forced to smile while holding a shotgun in that darn Suicide Squad game. IDK, it's how I feel.
I'd like to see you *cover* the Super Dictionary. I'd like to see you discuss the book. If your discussions were put in a book, they would be protected by a *cover*.
In Batgirl (Vol. 1) #13, Cass is taken into custody by some black ops organization, along with the guy the goons were after. Halfway through the book, in her escape, she uses a gun to influence the group's leader to free the dude she was taken in with--she even aims it sideways, "gangsta-style". This kind of made sense, since being trained as assassin, she's familiar with firearms, and is confident enough in her own skills that she knows she won't accidentally squeeze the trigger (and would have to know that's just not an effective way of aiming--maybe that was the point? Or perhaps I'm reading too far into it).
This works to more differentiate Cass from the other Bat-clan (of the time, which was a few heads fewer than today), that she's not as averse to guns as the rest of them. She still won't kill, but if she can use the thing to get out of a jam, she's not opposed to it. In hindsight, it could've been an interesting exchange to see a discussion with Batman (okay, let's face it--argument), where he loathes the idea of any of his partners holding a gun for any reason, and tells her that no matter how careful she thinks she is, accidents can still happen, and it's best not to "tempt fate", so to speak. Cass, however, I could see not really getting what he's upset about (not knowing his identity at this time), with Oracle, Robin, et al, trying to explain it as best they can. But to her, she could've seen it as just another use of fear against criminals, the very thing Batman prides himself on, while not noticing the same distinction he does.
Cass is pretty confortable in using swords too. She's so badass and too skilled to cause a lethal injury. In Detective Comics Rebirth she defeated the entire League of Shadows ninjas wielding a katana and managed to take everybody down without any killing.
@@EvandroACruz Yes, I remember.
Though, I don't much care for "Orphan", so when I reviewed that run on my own channel, I was not as--enthused.
Sasha: Cursed Panel!
Also Sasha: Cthulhu Blouse!
Can you imagine if Batman kept using guns? It would be like ... literally every movie Batman from Keaton through Affleck.
Lol Snyder likes to be a contrarian, so if Batman had kept using guns in the comics, I bet Affleck's wouldn't have.
To be fair, Keaton Batman DOES use them on the Batmobile and the Batwing. For some reason it's OK to use guns if they're attached to a vehicle.
@@KasumiKenshirouThey stop being handguns then.
Keaton didn’t really stop with guns … that scene where he basically uses a flamethrower to kill one of Penguin‘s henchmen is rough.
@@KasumiKenshirouThe Arkham games drive the guns on Batmobile to the next level … I‘m pretty convinced that the Batmobile is a psychopath.
Sasha's love of the letters' pages adds a lot to her videos. 👍
I DESPERATELY want to know what that "two-face ties Batman to the mast of a ship" comic was that flashed onscreen near the end is all about.
I read this issue when I was a small child and even at about eight years old seeing Batman hold a gun was a little jarring. I was too young to know anything of Batman befor the "new look" so I missed out on thaat controversy and enjoyed your explanation very much, in fact, discussions like this are why I am subscribed to your channel. I think you love comics even more than I do and I didn't think that was possible. Thank you for another fine video. BTW, this has nothing to do with anything but the eye shadow gets two thumbs up from me.
Looking at the panel itself, it kinda look like it came from the Golden age.
Yeah, I always assumed that it did
And newer stories which recognized Batman doesn't use guns to kill but seems to have no problems using minigrenades and missiles in his Batplane against crooks. Always found that strange.
No lethal weapons I believe.
The pointing hands of Carmine Infantino.
I love this Cursed Panel series!
I’m such a basic animal because Sasha’s eye makeup and shirt have confused me so much
I liked that you read the comic book comments.
This breakdown about Batman wielding a gun reminds me of Batman: Gotham Knight. It was a collection of short stories about Batman, each with a different animation style. In that, there are 2 stories that touched on Batman's attitude with guns. One showed how his trauma pushes him to get guns off the street while the other animation started off with him talking about how fascinated he is with guns as a symbol. I really liked how it showed that Batman hates guns but still has respect for it like a warrior respecting an enemy.
Isn’t 327 the first time Batman’s costume has the Yellow Circle on his chest? (Because he couldn’t armor his head …)?
Yep, the circle is part of the new look.
I now vote for you guys to do a video on some iconic or hilarious letters from letter collums. Id love to see what sort of fascinating conversations you could find between fans and editors
The background of the Batman with a gun thing is fascinating. And it's just as fascinating because it's a simple explanation of the writer admitted just wasn't as deep into the lore and backstory of Batman yet.
It's kind of funny how Martin "Pesky" Pasko seemed to focus on Denny O'Neil, and how salty Pasko and Bob Rozakis would get with readers when they each became assistant editors under Schwartz. I think the worst was Mark Waid or Andy Helfer(?) in responding to Justice League readers who (rightly) objected to Booster Gold and Blue Beetle stealing money to open a resort. The second comic I ever bought, Batman 207, had a letter from Klaus Janson, and the Teen Titans issue with "Penny for a Black Star" had a letter from Alan Brennert.
Yeah, the ear in the fireplace. Such a fun little scene. Obviously, if you see an ear hanging in a fireplace you automatically know that the person it belongs to is up on the roof.
Youve inspired me to be somebody I like. The synergy of outfits, makeup, and wig is something I strive for
Just came across your channel, I'm currently binge watching the content. I love it! Wish I knew about it sooner!
I remember this one from when I was young. Is that Carmine Infantino's art?
Yes! With Joe Giella on inks.
You smash these!! Keep up the great work.
This issue reminds me that good writers can inject nuance to political issues; there’s an understanding why both sides feel the way they do (no cartoonish caricatures), and no one is demonized. The ending resolution involves a common understanding for both sides.
John Broome’s stories have aged very well today. Kane’s team covering the other books are still holding onto the 1940s stylings (though more grounded now).
Your videos are always a ray of sunshine ☀️
Thank you!
I love your dialogue narration
"Get me TASTY pics of Spider-man, TASTY I SAY!!!"
That brief Batman History/Lore dive was interesting. I didn't know that. Thanks.
I would like a deep dive on one of the issues at the end where Batman tells Robin he can’t go out and fight crime because he wants to stay home and watch himself on TV!
I always wondered when/how the art style and era changed. I never imagined it was so sudden. The gun scene weirdly feels modern too (“this is a more grounded Batman: he has a gun!”)
Great work on this video. I really appreciate how much work goes into these
Thanks for posting this I needed something to help me recover emotionally from Matpats last game theory
Batman holding a gun? Tell that to Snyder... :P
Julie had a tendency to take a failing book and bring it back to popularity. He was a hell of a guy. Was lucky enough to hang out with him a few times.
Your videos inspired me to look into some older comics of my favorite heroes....I don't know whether to thank you or not for introducing me to Beast Boy in silver age. The green head is straight nightmare fuel
Love the letters column! Fans have always been fans.
November 1939 issue of Detective Comics, #33, the cover shows Batman with a gun holster. Inside the comic, you see him with the holster on, and later, him holding the gun in his hand. I believe this was the first and last time he carried a gun.
I love how deep you go with your research.
8:30 I had completely forgotten until this point that the video was about the batman with a gun panel lol
I actually read this story back in the day (it was part of Showcase Presents Batman vol. 1), and I remember being shocked by the sight of Batman holding a gun.
I went into that story expecting Adam West-style shenanigans, and what I got was Batman threatening to shoot a bunch of criminals!
...and some shenanigans, but still!
Sasha's color spectrum eyeshadow is mesmerizing.
And, yes, props to them for printing the negative feedback, even if they then make the claim (which no one can verify) that positive feedback outnumbered it four to one.
Tbh my favs are the letters lol I might be insane but did you do a favorite LttE video?
Batman was the amalgam of two pulp heroes - the Shadow and Doc Savage. Doc Savage has also had an aversion to guns.
Part of it was he never wanted to kill. He was a real doctor who had taken a Hippocratic Oath not to harm. And he was dedicated to the belief that criminals could be reformed.
But his associates carried around special guns loaded with "mercy bullets" that anesthetized those hit. But even he almost never carried one of those.
A big reason why he avoided guns was that he considered them a "crutch" - and it was possible to grow too dependent on them. (Although he did carry around a vest loaded with assorted gadgets. Which became the inspiration for Batman's Utility Belt.)
Well, Doc had his "Mercy Bullets" to knock out criminals; so he could take them to his secret sanatorium in up-state New York, where he gave them brain surgery to remove their ability to commit "evil". 🤔 Clarke Savage Jr was... a complex man.
Doc Savage was also a major influence on Superman to the point where Superman stole his arctic hideaway and never even bothered to rename it.
Ok, now we need a Doc Savage deep dive from Sasha
Didn't doc savage use guns but mainly used with "mercy bullets". From my understanding they're like what punisher uses when working with heroes.
You know the trope "Reed Richards is Useless," where no one will allow super-tech to change the world because then it won't be just like "the world outside your window?"
I would love to see all the superhero publishers create alternate versions of their worlds, Elseworlds and Ultimate Universe style, where the simpler superhero tech was replicated for public use. Police could carry "knockout bullets" or stun rays. Fan-driven aircraft that work like cars could easily exist, just like SHIELD cars or Captain America's old hovercycle. All that Mission: Impossible-style super-disguise technology could be used for fashion purposes -- color-changing clothes as just one example. Imagine all the interesting crimes and mysteries the heroes would have to solve if a lot of their toolkits were out in the world, available to cops, criminals, and the general public.
Actually, now that I think of it, I guess it wouldn't be too different from the existing comics, wherein criminals frequently dig massive tunnels under densely-populated cities, carry lasers, and jam/break into TV and radio broadcasts to issue challenges. The main difference is that there aren't high school computer clubs hijacking the nightly news, just people like the Riddler and Doctor Sivana.
Crime films I imagine as just public information films but made by crooks for crooks explaining the dos and don'ts of pulling off major crimes
Batman: Year Two is worth taking a look at it for Batman's usage of guns. It's often forgotten in the shadow of Batman: Year One, but it was quite good.
Golden Age Batman was such a badass!!
I knew every Batman cursed panel presented until now, but I had *never* heard of this one before. Woah, Batman must have had quite a few puberties, with all those growing pains.
hold on... Hold On! Batman fought vampires? What issue was this?
Detective Comics #31. The vampire is The (Mad) Monk. Matt Wagner revised the story a few years ago.
Oo
thank you! @@jimgillespie6109
17:17 I like your "yea!"
"Ah hah!" Menacing Mask is a great title and double entandre. It is a social commentary and mask reference to the true face of what may hide underneath the intentions of criminal element, type of gentrification, and community preservation. Not sure if that is true but, I can see that.
I like it!
Batman using guns vs vamps is OK, for they are not human. As he has done a lot of times against foes... like Darkside.
Hey Good One Sasha, Oh the voices the voices…💜 lol.
I honestly wish the people in charge of Batman’s live-action movies had seen these quotes from Julius Schwartz. It’s why I honestly think the DCAU Batman is superior to the live-action movie versions.
NYC has Greenwich Village and Washington Square Park.
Gotham City has Gotham Village and Jefferson Square Park.
Coincidence?
I think not!
Nothing like a good cursed panel!
That octopus tentacle top is ✨
If you're a 60s crook on the run, I'm guessing you'd be more in the mood for a comedy or musical.
I remember one of the first Batman comics I bought had Batman holding a machine gun, which had me wondering what's that about!
he was probably posing for the war effort
Now you’ve reminded me of that World’s Finest with Jimmy and Robin digging their own graves…
That letter and clap back waa awesome
Do you think those mobsters also had a 401K plan for when they retired?
I like this. Thank you
Recently I read Batman TMNT for some research on a thing I’m doing and I’d love to see you tackle the “this is where my parent dies Raphael” panel, it maybe be more of a meme than a cursed panel but in my read it felt very cursed! I honestly forgot the panel was coming and a few pages earlier Raph very justifiably calls Batman out for not being serious enough about the turtles losing their sentience; he also lobs a few common criticisms about Batman being a rich brat who really is just beating up the less fortunate and not making fundamental change to the systems in Gotham even tho he has the means. Bruce’s response is to take Raphael to crime alley and tell him he’s not trying to guilt trip him but his parent are dead like what 😂💀😭
I'm in favour of the no guns rule with exceptions like the scene in Batman Beyond, where it has a point and marks a pivotal moment in Bruce's life.
I was just thinking that.
I think you have gotten to use to old comics, the most crazy thing about the letter columns is that they printed full names and addresses!
Not to mention him again but the second you said Gotham village my ears perked up like a dog, because the only other comic to use that part of Gotham ever is Simon Dark
Have you done a video on Bruce N. Wayne? He's one of my favorite one offs.
Batman killing and Batman with a gun should be separate conversations. Batman carrying a gun was so rare and nonessential to the character that its removal wasn’t noticed and for the better. I think he only carried a gun holster for one splash page.
No guns provided a great angle to the character in showing his unique moral compass. His killing, on the other hand, was mostly self defense in the heat of the moment. This isn’t different from Jim Starlin’s (and other modern age writers) Batman, that saw a bunch of criminals accidentally die under Batman’s watch. I don’t think it’s contradictory to have him pledge not to kill, but also not get torn up over an incidental death caused by the criminals themselves.
I separate handguns from mounted guns in my mind, even though I know they should be treated the same. I just think the Burton vehicles were supremely cool.
I like the little detail at 5:17 of Bruce and the lady having coffee or tea while all poor Dick gets is a glass of water.
I personally have always had a soft spot for the Beyonder cameo in 'Power Man and Iron Fist', where, in an attempt to fit in while visiting Harlem, he transforms himself into an afroed black dude spouting jive so thick that no one can understand it. It would NEVER be written today, but to me, that just makes it all the more hilarious.
Have you ever covered the issue of Lois Lane where she became African American for a day, so classic early 70s lol. Love your channel
'She's crying.' Yes, Bruce went right round the world for years. Studied with lots of mentors. Just so he could tell if a woman is crying or not. Truly he is the world's greatest detective.
I was moving comics around the other day and I came across my copy of the millennium edition reprint of this one from 2000. I had totally forgotten it. But I put it down and now I can't find it again. I did as fate would have it also find my copy of the Julius Schwartz book and that is to hand. I'll never forget his three golden rules of writing comic scripts.
The awful Batman: Year Two also had him setting aside his ethos and carrying a gun, but not just any gun, the one that Joe Chill used to kill his parents!
I'd love a retrospective on Kathy and Bette Kane
Hahaha Batman looks almost gangsta on this panel. Love it
All right, somehow I hadn't seen this cursed panel but the story behind it was great! Although I was eating some crunchy food at the start and I thought Sasha really didn't like Jack Schiff for some reason.
I love the underground hotel with recreation rooms (like the movie theater)... lol It was great & the Scooby-Doo ending is amazing.
Love your videos they always put a smile on my face even if I had a hard day... Thank you
18:55 …so that’s where the justification of it being used as a target for his bulletproof chest came from
Batman has had guns on his plains.
Bruce and his ward have matching coats. Why? Alfred? They propably use the same tailor. Mr Wayne has to keep up appearances. 🧐
Oh yeah, and the beaks Infantino drew on some of these characters.
I love this wig so much
With the power of friendship ...... & this gun I found