The Confusing History Of Batman's Butler | Alfred
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- Опубліковано 9 вер 2024
- Alfred Pennyworth is a key part of Batman's history but he is not actually the first Alfred. Uncover the largely forgotten history of Bruce Wayne's first butler Alfred Beagle. Witness his origins in the golden age and transformation into the more familiar Alfred in the Silver. Just how did DC Comics move from Beagle to Pennyworth and why? Find out as we discuss some classic comic book history here on Casually Comics!
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Lol so I misspoke and said tv instead of movie/theatre serials. Feel free to join in roasting me down below...along with all the other UA-cam things plz 😂
No roasting necessary.
Sunday roast... mmmm. Not a bad idea. :D
Unforgivable!..........nah we cool. 😊 Tho I did start to wonder if they really broadcasted it on the experimental TV stations that were popping up just before the war.
The TV serial was an Earth 2 thing.
Love your Dress.
My favorite thing about Alfred is that he has a niece named Daphne, and the Scooby-Doo franchise used that to make THEIR Daphne his niece.
Are you serious?
@@thomasraines1396 That was an absolutely great episode of Scooby-Doo and Guess Who.
@@ethansloan oh I remember that episode.
I had no idea - I'm delighted!
I guess they needed an explanation of why they run into Batman so much. Lol 😂
I think Alfred's transition from Beagle to the modern Pennyworth we know today is one of the best examples of how comic book "canon" works. It's kind of like a stew you make out of whatever you have left over in the fridge, with a few new spices added here and there.
Also, am I alone in thinking that Alfred kind of still is comedic relief? Certainly not solely or chiefly, but being funny has always been one of Alfred's defining characteristics to me. Just in a dry, sarcastic, dialogue-based comedy way, rather than in a bumbling, slap-stick way. Whenever he's not playing the deeply dedicated father figure, he's giving Bruce some sarcastic quip from the peanut gallery.
Jeeves without a Wooster basically...
Thinking about it, the two Alfreds would play off each other quite well.
Yeah, Alfred still definitely injects a certain levity at times. He's simply no longer the butt of the joke.
@@Vox-MultisRather, he now makes the jokes that everyone else are the butt of.
We cannot forget the fact that Alfred Pennyworth was also a Super Villain for a time, the infamous "Outsider". And his absence led to the introduction of the Aunt Harriet character in the comics. I was more a Marvel fan in those years, but would pick up some DC comics now and then, so I don't know the whole story arc. Love your voicings of the characters, though Alfred's accent reminded me of those BBC series on PBS where British actors playing Americans all sounded like they all came from Georgia or Texas.
It's crazy how every Batman movie includes Alfred but very few include Robin despite Robin coming first.
My favorite Batman character was always Alfred, just his sheer determination on taking care of Bruce and the rest of the bat family is admirable
Alfred is such a good father figure.
I love how he addresses them so formally, Miss Gordon, Master Tim, Master Richard...
@@ShinyGolduck5 I remember the FIRST time he ever addressed Bruce as "Bruce", without the "Master", he was so disturbed by how far gone Bruce was at that moment (I forget what crisis Bruce was having, but it was a major one). Bruce was visibly shocked by it, too, which was exactly as it should be.
It was as big a violation of protocol as when Superman look up at Mongul and grimly said, "Burn."
Alfred was cast in the mold of the staunchly loyal, helpful, overly polite fictional butlers who used to be so popular...like "Ruggles of Red Gap," and Jeeves from the P.G. Wodehouse "Jeeves & Wooster" stories.
And now I want to see a version of Alfred and Batman played by Stephen Fry and Hugh Laurie.
And here I was thinking Archer's Woodhouse (do they spell it Wodehouse?) was a spoof purely on mixing the personality of Alfreds'; sometimes UA-cam comments tangentially teach you something.
I have that Zero Hour tie-in issue; Alfred had left Batman and Robin a few months earlier and they really missed him, so it was heartbreaking when the alternate reality Alfred vanished from existence.
I've always assumed that the reason for the name change from Beagle to Pennyworth was because the writers in the 1960's didn't know what Alfred's last name was. It had been many years since the name Beagle actually appeared in a comic, so they came up with the new name Pennyworth.
That's probably how it was
I just realized something...so Alfred's og name was Beagle.
....in DuckTales, the butler who has an Alfred like demeanor in his quippiness...is a BEAGLE and his name is DuckWORTH.
....WAIT A MINUTE.....
Alfred's a character who just seems to get more and more important with time - especially in adaptations, where Alfred give Batman someone to talk to who doesn't also have to be a costumed crimefighter with their own backstory of being recruited by Batman.
Like, perhaps the most daring change a modern Batman movie could make is to just not include Alfred at all.
A Batman movie without Alfred would be worse than one with Bat-nipples
@@RickReasonnz No it wouldn't. Bat nipples weren't that bad either.
You could focus more on Bruce interacting with people as Bruce. Gordon, his friends ect.
It wouldn't be anything majorly different.
People are sorta projecting importance.
Loved how the original Alfred and other previous versions of popular characters (like Silver Age's Batgirl) re-appeared during the "Zero Hour" event, being the awkward interactions with the modern heries funny AF. My favorites are the wholesome "Robin" special-issue story in which Tim Drake meets 10-year old Dick Grayson and the two resolve a crime together and the "Man of Steel" comic where Superman met and worked with the Batmen from Neal Adams's works, TDKR and the Golden Age
Damn, the original Alfred was also an absolute menace, but in a even more sophisticated way. Wish that Alfred was the one who appeared in "The Brave and the Bold Show"
Alfred has such a rich and diverse history filled with retcons, deaths, resurrection, and superpowers. I would love for you to take a look at Alfred's time as "The Outsider".
Alan Napier from the 66 campy Batman TV series will always be my Alfred.
The serial in which Alfred first appeared were not on TV. They were shown in theaters, one episode per week, in conjunction with newsreels and feature films.
Can you do a video on Alfred's daughter? I think she was removed from continuity at some point.
An "Alfred as a Supervillain" or covering The Outsider in general video should be next!
@@scottboswell6406Yes, I agree.
The 66 series actually implied he raised Bruce in a minor line. And the Intel agent was as far back as the 70s before Untold Legend.
Untold Legend will always be my head canon! I still stand on the Alfred wasn’t always there hill in a Sasha type style 🤣 I didn’t realise the raising was touched on in Super Friends or even earlier!
Commissioner Gordon also stated that he had grandchildren. Of course it was before Barabara Gordon was created.
@@robs6952 Yeah, Alfred is depicted in the episode "The Fear" as raising Bruce. He mentioned raising Bruce on Batman '66. Then there was Batman: Year One and Batman '89. That is all I know.
@@treydodson4726 I gotta check that out.
Stage name "Alfred Beagle" is a damn good retcon imo. Retcons get a bad wrap but when one is done well I absolutely love it.
Can we be sure that the "Alfred" who returned from the Health Farm, was the same one who went there? That seems like a great opportunity for a villain to slip a sleeper agent in to the Bat Family 🤔🦇
Good idea for a story.
I'd love a modern miniseries featuring a multiversal Alfred Team-Up. I feel like their energies would clash and bounce in interesting ways. "Beagle and Pennyworth: Butler Detectives."
That would be fabulous
I liked how the Beware the Batman tie-in comic paid tribute to him by having Alfred briefly take the "Beagle" surname for part of a disguise and remarking it "felt right".
I think the reason alfred is so popular in adaptations, especially more 21st century versions is the aversion to Robin. batman still needs somebody to talk to, so Alfred works perfectly.
Alfred’s brother “Wilfred” has an appearance as late as 1997.
In the oft maligned 1997 classic “Batman and Robin,” (with George Clooney ) Alfred is dying and crafts a message to his brother “Wilfred” to take up his job should he pass.
Its fun to know that this version of batman and robin who were heavily inspired by silver age tomfoolery’s also included tie ins to such obscure silver age lore as alfreds brother wilfred
That movie is awesome I watch it at least once a year it gives me life.
Did anyone else notice that the Alfred Beagle version of the character had a look in both physical appearance and manner of dress similar to the Avengers Butler, Jarvis, albeit a bit heavier? (At least as Jarvis was portrayed in the 70's and early to mid 80's?)
aThat might have then been the source of Alfred Beagle's father's name for the Golden Age version.
Something that may also be why Tony's Bulter and later AI are Jarvis. Now I want that crossover where Jarvis is Alfred Pennyworth's father.
In my head canon, Alfred raised Bruce but had to return to England to take care of "family business," leaving Bruce during his late teens. He would be gone several years, never knowing exactly where all of Bruce's training had been leading. He wasn't there when Bruce decided to be a vigilante, wasn't there when the bat flew through the window. He wasn't there to tell Bruce that becoming a costumed crime-fighter simply wasn't... doable! And that's why Bruce succeeded: there was no one to plant the seed of doubt within him. After Batman had debuted, after Bruce had taken in Dick Grayson (and by extension, Batman had taken on Robin), Alfred returns in a retelling of the first story.
It's impossible to definitively pin down when the stories depart Earth-2 and shift to Earth-1. Golden Age characters appeared in the Silver and Bronze ages, and GA stories were referenced then as well. As far as I'm concerned the Superman, Batman, Robin, etc. we experienced in those later eras were the same characters that had appeared in the GA. Discrepancies? Sure, but discrepancies still occur all the time. No need to say all of them occurred elsewhere in the multiverse, just say the writer made a mistake and leave it at that.
One of the most interesting - and controversial - of the sidekick characters from the Golden Age is Ebony White from "The Spirit." He was the source of a great deal of offense, being that he was drawn in the "Sambo style" of the era and spoke in a minstrel dialect. But he was also one of the first black characters to have a major role in comics. And while he had the usual zany hijinks of other sidekicks of the same period, he was also imbued with a depth not seen in most other comics characters. He also displayed many noble qualities such as loyalty, courage, and ingenuity.
One experience in particular illustrates his complicated role. On the same day Will Eisner received two fan letters regarding Ebony White. One was from a white, liberal fan admonishing him for making use of such an offensive stereotype. The other was from a black man praising him, saying it was refreshing to see a black character who was such a positive role model.
Eisner said he just sat and stared at the two letters in bewilderment.
I never heard this particular story, interesting! I love classic Spirit stories, but Ebony's caricature appearance is cringe. Thanks for the history lesson!
The best channel on UA-cam?
Hands down …❤❤❤
Why the question mark?
Yep.
Lol…a “fat finger error “ … resubmitted: HANDS DOWN ‼️‼️‼️💕💕💕‼️‼️‼️
@@ianscultgaming3601 fair, the best channel on UA-cam!
I had no clue there were two Alfreds. I'd love to hear you cover a video on Alfred's daughter!
I love that you added that "guv'nah" at the end of Alfred's line of dialogue there. I always do that when I try to emulate a British accent. Whether I'm going for a cockney thing or not.
Fun fact, theirs a zero hour tie in where Batman and Robin meet golden age Alfred… and are BAFFLED by how WEIRD this version of Alfred is. I love when these type of stories are done and wish marvel and dc did it more.
The Alfred change is also in Batman: Return of the Caped Crusaders, the movie based on the 1966 Adam West series. In that they mention that Alfred worked for the Waynes since Bruce was a child, even though that was not part of the canon when the show was on the air.
The creep of Alfred facts feels so natural. By the time he reaches his post crisis final form, it's very much like, yep, that makes sense lol.
@@CasuallyComics Now that I think about it, the Adam West show might be where we got some of Alfred's more action-heavy aspects from, since in one episode he beat The Joker in a sword fight and dressed up as Batman to save Bruce and Dick from trouble.
@@jordanloux3883 The TV show definitely impacted Alfred in one big way -- the comics had killed him off some time before, but the TV people wanted to use him, so they had to find a way to bring him back!
@@JKevinCarrier Wait, is that why they turned Alfred into a rock monster that one time?
@@JKevinCarrier That story was one of the ones adapted into the Japanese manga.
I recall a Detective Comics 3 issue story around issue 500 where it was revealed that Alfred, Jim Gordon and Lucius Fox all served together during World War II. Alfred then hooked up with a famous French Resistance member and had his daughter. Just thought I would mention it as this was when I first really started reading the Batman comics. About ten years later that origin was dropped and modified. As an aside, I really enjoy your historical reviews. Very well researched and presented. Your work is appreciated.
Any time you revisit the Golden, Silver, and/or Bronze Age, I am here for it! I do love that Alfred origin story, where every time Robin calls him an idiot, he (inadvertently) does something brilliant and makes the Boy Wonder look like a jerk. :D
Nice to see the Superfriends/Super Powers Team get a shout out. "The Fear" is one of my favorite Batman stories, where Crime Alley is the only thing Batman still fears (unlike the Burton and DCAU idea that he visits every anniversary). Also by then Adam West had taken over from Olan Soule and does a great dramatic Batman.
Hey, maybe Alfred Beagle is the one that got killed and Pennyworth is just being held captive somewhere? Alfred shouldn't have died!
I want a story set in the 1960s, where it's just Alfred at Wayne Manor having to keep aunt Harriet from finding out Bruce and Dick are superheroes. He'll have important tasks to do, but she keeps bumbling around, accidently opening secret passageways, but they always open behind her so she doesn't notice and Alfred is able to close them in time. It would be the most boring and frustrating Batman story ever.
Also, love that rose pattern dress, Sasha.
There's a very funny story from the 1970s "Batman Family" series where Alfred and Commissioner Gordon are setting up a surprise birthday party for Bruce at Wayne Manor. Alfred goes to great lengths to prevent Gordon from accidentally discovering the Batcave entrance, and at the end it's heavily implied that Gordon knows Bruce's secret.
I'd like to hear about Alfred's secret identity as the Outsider and his death and resurrection.
I knew there was an older version of Alfred but just chalked it up to the "bumbling support character" trope which was so common then. I didn't realize they were distinct people with different last names. Very fun and interesting episode!
Cool video, I was not aware of the first Alfred … It might be interesting if you did a video on how Clark Kent’s adoptive mother went from Mary…to Sarah…to Martha , & Father from Eben…to John … to Jonathan…Keep Up The Outstanding Work Sasha 🖖🏾
And early on, didn't Clark just grow up in an orphanage instead of with the Kents?
@@KasumiKenshirou I could be wrong but I think he was always raised by the Kents. I believe how it went was that after they found him they discreetly left him at an orphanage with the intent of returning later on to adopt him.
Clark grew up in an orphanage only in the first Fleischer Brothers cartoon. This was for the same reason that he grew to adulthood aboard the rocketship in the first episode of the *_Adventures of Superman_* radio show - in order to avoid having to deal with his parents.
I knew about the Fleisher cartoon , but was not aware of the radio show adaptation..,Thanks for the knowledge 🖖🏾
With Alfred being no longer with us, bringing back Mr. Beagle in some form could be a really interesting move
Forgot to mention that I really appreciate these deep dives. Most fans barely know anything about these characters pre-Crisis. As an old head, I was lucky enough to read those 60 cent 100 page Spectacular comics DC put out in the 70’s where DC had a new story in the front of the book and reprints in the back which formed my love and knowledge of the Golden and Silver age versions of these characters. Ah, simpler times!
I think the original Batwoman and Batgirl(Kathy and Betty Kane) also existed in Earth-One. Batgirl would later join the original Titans West and Batwoman would be killed by the League of Assassins.
Yup, we did a video on the confusing Batwoman history ages ago lol
I did not know about this! Huge Fatfan and I had no clue about two Alfred's. I'm surprised they haven't tried the Carrie Kelly Robin approach yet since E1 Alfred is dead.
Fatfan.
"Batman The Complete History (1999)"
Bill Finger: 👁👄👁
Stan Lee ripping the Jarvis name is so in character lmao
I always liked it when Alfred played the role of Sancho Panza to Batman's Don Quixote.
It would be cool if you did a video on the evolution of Jim Gordon as there's barely any videos that explain his history (which isn't case with the Robins and Batgirls)
The first Alfred reminds me of another character. The Paul Gustavson run on the Quality character Midnight introduced us to Sniffer Snoop, a wannabe detective with a deerstalker hat, a shotgun, and a pet polar bear.
Batman: I work alone
Bat Family: 👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀
Batman: Family doesn't count.
Sasha casually dropping 'heretofore' into her monologue was all the goodness I needed today.
I’d always thought the idea of Alfred helping to raise Bruce was introduced by Frank Miller in Dark Knight Returns. Now I learn it was Superfriends? 😮
You’ve made my day.
Would love to see a breakdown around Psylocke/Betsy/Kwannon.
So Alfred changed from a lovelable beagle to a lucky penny. Seems fitting.
DC! Bring back Alfred already!
If you think of it, Alfred is more of a valet than a butler. A butler's duty is to manage the staff, but Wayne Manor doesn't normally have staff.
Alfred is best when he's just a normal person. I feel like a lot has been lost now that modern writers insist that he was a spy before randomly becoming a butler and had a daughter who is also a spy.
His espionage experience dates back to Len Wein's early 80s retelling of Batman’s origin and those of his supporting cast. That said, you are right to see modern writers as monkeying around with the spirit of the original.
I had seen the bumbling Alfred stories before but didn't know they were different from each other or when the changes brgan. Thank you for the new information. Modern day Alfred will always be my favorite.
9:47 I like how Batman used to write his community posts in the sky with the Batplane. :)
Between this, the Bat-Signal, and lighting a kite on fire to get Superman's attention, Batman seems to prefer sky conversations. 😂
Bruce: "I didn't send for a butler!"
Is that how butlers work? Did you mail in box tops to get one? Are they available on Amazon now? I am so confused.
I assume there's some kind of agency you call to hire a butler.
That inital blurb introducing Alfred makes him sound like the Punisher.
Since DC is pushing the Justice Society this year, do you think you'll cover more of the Golden Age?
I'm just ready for Alfred to return. It's been too long. The Lazarus it's have been used so much lately. I just need it used one more time.
I remember due to my library having a copy of Batman through the decades in the early 80's that had this.
Thank you for sharing this. I've been busy with a couple of my own projects. It's nice to find your channel doing well. I have that Zero Hour comic, it's fantastic. I like how you talked about all the important stories for the Alfred saga!
Both Alfred and James Gordon became more than story props! Gordon in Batman Year One 404-408! Excellent work on this video, you always do your homework,Sasha! James Gordon needs a video to show newer readers the depth and width of yet another great Batman character! ❤️👍🎯👋
You can never have to many Alfreds
I have that issue where he returns via multiverse shenanigans. Neat to hear more about em
Somewhat ironically we got a cockney Alfred in the form of Michael Caine and possibly Sean Pertwee.
One of, if not the first case of a character's appearance in other media influencing the source material. A trend I am normally not too big of a fan of. But I can't deny it worked out in this instance.
Oh interesting.
Loved when they brought him back during Zero Hour and you can just see modern Bruce and Tim trying to hold back tearing him a new one with all his bumbling
If I recall correctly Alfred Beagle came back in the Zero Hour issue to fight the evil Archie Goodwin. I sometimes wish Alan Grant (who wrote the issue) could come back the same way.
Technically Dick Tracy was the first comic book "hero" to have a sidekick, before Batman. :)
I really liked the Shadow of the Bat issue with the original Alfred. There were also some stories, not many, with Alfred and Commissioner Gordon together. I remember seeing on in I think it was a Batman Family issue (naturally).
Oh, and 1943 and 1949 were movie serials, not a TV show. Feel the burn! ;-)
Alfred Pennyworth, meet the original, Alfred Fatstacks.
Thanks for the Sunday fun. This was something I'd long forgotten, tho I'd never known the details.
My favorite origin is actually from Untold Legend of the Batman.
I hate the bat family but I couldn't imagine batman without Alfred. His reimagining might be the greatest retcon in comic history.
Jarvis got sick of Robin's spunk and took the next bus to Marvel, maybe Tony Stark could use a new butler.
Now I want them to write, "The Alfred of Two Worlds." It's also made me remember that golden age Batman had comic relief "assistants" called Ali Babble, and Superman had hocus and pocus, the "accidental magicians." An episode on these and other "comedy" characters like Woozy Winks, and Doiby Dickles could be fun. Why did some, like Etta Candy and Uncle Marvel, stick around for a long time, while others quickly disappeared. Also, why was having a comedy assistant, such a strong trend?
My first Alfred was the 1966 and it was amusing to see him dressed in the Adam West Batman outfit for an episode and they just played it off with Commisssioner Gordon that he was sick and that is why he looked so skinny. Also a Plastic Man video would be a fun dive.
Trying to pinpoint an exact switchover between Earth-2 and Earth-1 Batman is tough, and we know that both Earths had a Kathy Kane version of Batwoman so there might even be some stories that happened on both Earths. i think the first easily confirmed no doubt about it appearance of Earth-1 Batman was in Brave and the Bold #28 as only Earth-1 Batman was with the Justice League, but your points about Alfred are certainly possibilities for earlier still.
The whole "Alfred's father used to be a butler for the Waynes" sounds like something they brought up in Whatever Happened to the Caped Crusader, even though the Alfred we see there is very much the modern one (albeit with a minor twist).
Great video. In one Penguin story he claimed that the Pennyworths had worked for the Cobblepots for generations.
Was not aware there were two or there was a transition but I enjoy learning. Thank you
I own the 40’s Batman serials, so fun.
That was very interesting, I had thought Alfred was always a dignified Pennyworth, not originally a buffoon named Beagle! It was also a surprise his father had been the Wayne butler before him and was named “Jarvis”! Jarvis was the name of Tony Stark’s(Iron Man) butler who also served as butler to the Avengers. I suspect Stan Lee added this butler for the Avengers either by subconsciously remembering Jarvis as a butler involved with superheroes from DC comics or Lee might have cribbed the character intentionally figuring nobody would remember the odd old Batman reference.
Even Richie Rich had a butler named Cadbury who had a similar relationship with his employer, often participating in Richie Rich’s adventures but always as a support character in the background. Even this set up gives me the impression that the writers figured they could use such a figure in their own stories about a millionaire adventurer.
I could be wrong about that, tho, and the Stan Lee idea, too. Maybe American comic writers all just tend to visualize all rich guys have butlers that help them in everything, who knows? I love all your videos, thanks!
Fascinating. Did not know (or totally forgot) there was an earlier Alfred. I was introduced to Alfred by the TV show and then Danny O'Neal 1970s Batman.
Love your videos
8:38 Justice for the bumbling superhero sidekicks aka the Jar Jar Binkses
Kinda interesting how this vital character developed over time
To be fair, most DC characters have confusing histories.
Before I get into the video, I'll put my own comment on the table: It's been my contention for a few decades now that Alfred's true superpower is to be able to perform all the duties of a butler, and pretty much the rest of the household staff around Wayne Manor, since I'm pretty sure they don't have the sort of household staff you'd expect in a place like that, while performing the regular maintenance and upkeep of the Batmobile, two Bat-cycles, the Batplane, Bat-copter, the Bat-submarine and probably one or two I'm missing --
All of these vehicles require fuel and upkeep, and even if he somehow works twenty four hours a day, how does he pay for fuel, parts and equipment *without* spending money that can be traced back to Wayne Enterprises?
That's a truly scary super power.
All right, hit "play."
had no idea their was an alfred before pennyworth. My first batman exposure was TAS.
Ace the Bat Hound needs more to do modern day :(
Still amazed we got Alfred the TV show a sixties spy thriller
I think the alfred beagle take on the character could still be used as a cousin of pennyworth or an alias he took back in his youth during his service in brittish inteligence, perhaps a look a like similar to oliver queen and travis morgan warlord a columbo esque character who seems clusmy but is a genius who uses his comedic clumsyness to have people underestimate him while in the background be a key player in the story
I was aware that Alfred was more of a comic relief character. Didn’t known the original last name.
I knew of the rotund Beagle version of Alfred but I had no idea that he debuted after Robin. Mind Blown!
I think it is interesting that the 1966 TV Batman does not depict Alfred as bumbling in any way, but as extremely competent.
I knew about the two Alfreds but I forgot Ace was a... hound. At least at frist. There was a time (post crisis) where he was another breed and I guess that versioin stayed with me more... that might be because that version appeared around the time they had Harold Allnut as their gadget inventor, whereas I had always thought their inventor had always been Lucius Fox. Great video btw! Sometimes it's easy to forget characters change along with us.
I like the earth two concept and in that universe he was raised by his uncle and instead of alfred Pennyworth he's accompanied now by alfred beagle who serves batman out of a promise he made to his father
'Beware the Bat' completely broke the Pennyworth mold. Too bad it only lasted one season!
Does any one else have as their favorite Alfred the DCAU version as voiced by Efrem Zimbalist Jr?
Bruce: You think you know everything about me.
Alfred: I diapered your bottom. I bloody well ought to...sir.
I knew Alfred was always a bad ass lol
I have that shadow of the bat comic where Alfred beagle appeared in, and so does my cofounder Jeff.