I like the implication, that with “there’s three”, the chair was asking for Bruce to elaborate on which one he meant, while Bruce is just having a crisis for the entire arc and never thinks to ask a follow up question.
The "there's three" answer doesn't really work with the final reveal, nor even within its own story. The final reveal was that one physical person became the "three Jokers"; the answer for anyone searching for the identity of the Joker is the identity of that one physical person. The teasing non-answer only really works if the Mobius Chair was intentionally screwing with Batman. (To be fair, the chair is apparently at least semi-sentient? So maybe it *was* legitimately messing with Bruce.) The answer arguably doesn't worth within its own story because Batman is apparently somehow so shocked at the impossibility (which is already silly in a comic book world) that he didn't even bother to complain or clarify the non-answer.
@@gamelairtimi thought the implication was that he thought he knew the answer and was asking the chair in order to test it, which further implies he didnt think anyone except himself and someone who litterally knew everything would know those two things, which is absurd because the Joker has known those two things for a very long time. Batman would have to have known the actual answer or he wouldn't have put Jack's family into hiding, however at least in the continuity I am familiar with, Ridddler knew as well.
There were actually 3 Sasha’s all along: The Superman’s girlfriend Lois Laner The obscure character deep diver And the most twisted of all… The cursed panel-er 🃏
That would explain how she finds time for all these deep dives with little kids running around. One to research. One to write the script, and one to record. And all three wear different wigs around the house.
I'm still stuck on the line at 12:23 "The third is calm like a black ocean at night. And like that ocean all that waits for you is COLD DEATH" Ow. The EDGE. Also the line before that. "I don't believe in heaven or hell, but if I did I'd think this man had existed for millennia, tormenting humanity in service of something greater." What does that even mean.
@@cartoonishidealism582 I'm pretty sure its supposed to be referencing another idea floated around in the comics that the Joker was the result of some deep evil seeded into the heart of Gotham that had plagued the location for centuries. And the Joker we knew was just the latest form that evil had taken
For the same reason Hacksnider turned Batman into the World’s Biggest Dumbass in the bVs abomination… the writer had no idea how to tell a good story about BATMAN, how BATMAN would act and what BATMAN would do. They spend way more time and effort on what THEY would do and the choices they would make if they were Batman. And it completely ruins things every single time.
I, for one, think the Joker is a lot more interesting when his importance is downplayed. The difference between him and the rest of Batman’s rogues gallery is that he is essentially Batman’s stalker. He doesn’t really have a plan on what to do AFTER killing him, their rivalry is Joker’s only reason to keep going. But making this relationship mutual just doesn’t work. Batman doesn’t need the Joker, he never has, and his life would be better without him in it. Hell, imagine how funny it would be if he didn’t even consider Joker to be his real nemesis. If Bruce secretly held a bigger grudge toward, say, Bane, for example. But Joker is unable to even entertain that thought. He NEEDS to believe that Batman spends as much time thinking about him as he does thinking about Batman.
Yes to this. Part of the Joker is his need to be important. Not that he actually is. Whether he is a genuine criminal with a grandiose persona, a goofy clown trying to treat the world like a dark comedy for laughs, or a monster committing horrific atrocities, it's all because he needs attention. He needs to matter. So when his level of importance or ability is propped up by the writers it takes away from what actually makes the character special and interesting to the audience..
I feel like people have been overstating Joker recently. Like He's the most dangerous man in the planet? Not Lex, Savage,Faust, Kent, Thwane? Also I like Joker being a random element that results from Batman rather than someone sculpted to oppose him. Feels like it cheapens the relationship imo
All of this comes from writers obsessed with "the Batman/Joker Dichotomy." They seem to think Batman keeps Joker alive because Joker is somehow important. He's not important to Batman, beyond being a dangerous criminal to stop. Batman doesn't kill the Joker simply because the Joker is human. The more the writers add in superhuman abilities ("super-sanity," vast intellect, super-powerful manipulation, and of course immunity to death becoming increasingly text instead of theme) the more likely Batman is to consider the Joker a nonhuman super-threat some day, and just stand aside while someone like Jason Todd takes him out and destroys the body.
I think the pre-New 52 era balanced the Joker best. Lex is certainly an alpha villain, but he makes it a point to include the Joker in his villain team-ups because it would be more of a headache to exclude him.
@@gembish1681 Considering it was the New 52 that started the whole stupid mess of Joker getting his face cut off, there's no way I could disagree with you.
@@SingularityOrbitI actually think Scott Snyder run was brilliant as it subverted expectations by making the Joker more of a slasher horror monster. Along with having a supernatural subtext later, again subverted as being a Court of Owls propaganda. But even Snyder didn't give the Joker background or origin. Except he was the Red Hood.
The idea of three (or many) Jokers as mental states of the same man makes a lot more sense than three different physical beings running around as the Joker and Batman hadn't realized it years ago. He's supposed to be the world's greatest detective. The most observant man on the planet. He couldn't tell that there were three different men under that shock of green hair? Plus, Joker has always reveled in his own uniqueness. Surely, one of them would have killed the other two ages ago.
In the Three Jokers comic I think I remember Batman addressing this, that Joker would be doing a crime which should be impossible because Joker was already in prison.
Eh, given the brutal beatings The Joker takes, I can accept that he can't figure that one out. "Well, after the last time I destroyed his face, yeah, he needed a lot of surgery. And given all the other times I've done this, that entire face is made out of reconstructive surgery". Batman can easily write it off as "Joker's face keeps getting shattered and reconstructed so of course he doesn't look the same". It's not like the model for MJ in the Spider-Man games looks like the same person after her face was shattered irl and it was rebuilt.
@@PosthumanHeresyGreatest detective right there. “Uh…. really good plastic surgery? Also, a little weight gain once in a while, happens to the best of us. And I assumed he smoked, hence the voice change. The eye color? Oh, easy, contact lenses. And lifts in his shoes made him an inch taller. You see, he thought that if he changed just slightly, I wouldn’t recognize him. Clever trick, but not clever enough!”
Worst example of that is probably killing him off in Arkham city, making a prequel where black mask is the main villain only for it to be revealed that joker killed him and took his place, and then making a sequel where scarecrow turns Batman schizo, causing him to see joker everywhere. Funny thing about that is that it was mark hamill’s biggest role of 2015(in terms of screen time), despite, well, you know
I unironically didn't know that Sasha was wearing wigs all this time. I thought she changed it every day like Ramona Flowers and that her hair fiber was absolutely destroyed by the dye.
The problem with the Jokers is that there don't feel like three different people. It only works if make them feel and act differently from each other. The Clown shouldn't be a murderer. The Criminal shouldn't be funny and be the mastermind. If they are too close to each other then the idea doesn't work.
Your point is taken, but my feeling has always been that, much like how we follow the recent exploits of characters who irt are in Batman's case an octogenarian LOL, the concept was meant to 'explain' the multitudes of cuckoo like cocoa puffs that seemed to inhabit this one force of chaotic random, so there has to be a throughline between Jokers as they are all dark but their 'different' outward modal operandi define those three 'main' Jokers as described/defined. But when the 'hey let's make some more Jokers!" part came in it lost a lot of momentum in being what they were trying to make it when it was supposed to slot in before Doomsday Clock and (possibly)could have gone through the smell test Sasha defines as whether popularity would bring it into canon, and maybe it would have seemed less WTF than it turned out to be in the wake of both Covid and the regime change at DC, so much so we are here watching a video about it 4 years later [shrugs]😁
I think this is the inherent flaw of the concept though. These three Joker archetypes are in fact not totally divergent. The Criminal is meant to be the first Joker iteration. This one is popularly alleged to be serious rather than funny, but I don't agree. The early 40s Joker did not have all the clown paraphernalia, but definitely had mirth. He was much like the classic villain archetype which has a humorous element (think Sweeney Todd - not the musical, the original penny dreadful and melodrama plays). The Clown is meant to be bronze age. Again, this one was most definitely murderous as well as clowny.
And very mercurial. Meaning that, he is as likely to be amusing and magnanimous as he is dangerous and cruel. Whatever the mood takes him. He can be a harmless clown one moment, and murderous the next. Whatever type of performance he feels like doing this week lol
I once read something that said the chair told batman "i can't tell you. The writers won't allow it." But i had no concept of what a "shitpost" was so i took that as fact. Looking back, that unironically would have been a more interesting and eerie thing for the chair to have told him. It'd be like, he ascended to such a high level, he knocked on the very boundaries of his reality, and what he saw was so startling it knocked him back down to earth. That, and they wouldn't have had to write some convoluted story around it.
@@CasuallyComics When I was a child, I always turned off the VHS tape after the Tim scene because of how upsetting it was. I never finished the move until I was a teenager.
I find Zdarsky's Three Jokers explanation to be the logical endpoint for Morrison's concept of super sanity. It's the reason why the Joker acts so differently in different eras for Batman, why he can be a funny trickster, into a psychotic maniac to a calm and reserved killer, to simply a chaotic force of nature.
Problem is that Morrisons approach is and was heavily flawed with explaining things that do not need explanation. There is absolutely no need to include everything in continuity. Nor is there a need for metatexual explanation.
@@Lukecash2 the thing is that core audience that buys comic books nowadays love continuity. Theres a reason why so many comic movies, cartoons, etc. are done in their own universes end up being more popular
I feel like everyone forgets that the super-sanity isn't supposed to be taken seriously. The person saying that is explicitly supposed to be as insane as The Joker. That's like, the point of that scene. The next few lines after that are that doctor suggesting it as the next stage of human evolution. The story ends with Batman freeing _everyone_ from Arkham because Arkham is evil in a Lovecraftian way and turns everyone who works or lives there insane. The landmass that Arkham is built on created an entire stable timeloop that causes its own destruction in that story. Super-sanity was never correct, it was the first sign that Arkham doctors are as insane as Arkham patients.
What was most frustrating for me at least is that you COULD split the Joker into three easy facets, but the series seemed to miss the mark. It seems easy to do Mob Boss, Prankster, and Serial Killer. Instead we have Mob Boss and Prankster/Serial Killer muddled into each other.
Fun fact: I was knitting and not paying much attention while watching and I kept looking up to see you in different wigs and I thought I was hallucinating lol
In all honesty, I hated The 3 Jokers story. The things that I had read about it was leading me to believe everyone most effected by The Joker's actions were going to give each person some closure to the trauma they endured. Mainly Jason and Barbara. It didn't do any of that. It seemed to make it much worse especially for Jason. I could have done without all of that nonsense. Lately it just seems like DC just wants to abuse Jason in stories.
I've read some of Batman's Golden Age stuff recently. Everything about him was really rough back then and improved over the years. Except one: The Joker. I personaly think Golden Age Joker was simply the best depict of the character. He was cold, calculist, a twisted and sadist genius. Feels a lot like Ledger's Joker. I think most versions of the character that came later are either too goofy/silly or too desperately edgy.
I remember when Three Jokers was originally a thing while Doomsday Clock was happening; at the time I theorized that one of the Jokers was actually the child of Mime and Marionette that Dr. Manhattan brought with him to the DC Universe when he moved over.
I wish that the claim the "The Killing Joke was never meant to be canon" would just stop. The book was planned to canon from the get go. Barbara Kesel, the writer of Batgirl Special #1 stated that she was commissioned to write that book specifically to set up the status quo change for Barbara in The Killing Joke, and the first mention the events of The Killing Joke was a few months later in the first part of the Death in the Family arc.
No, that's wrong. Batgirl Special #1 is a send-off, not a setup to the new status quo. In fact, Batgirl Special #1 actually _further_ cements that it was never meant to be canon. Why? Because Batgirl Special #1 is _explicitly_ a Pre-Crisis Timeline story. It frequently and heavily refers to the Pre-Crisis canon and lore, _not_ the Post-Crisis canon and lore. As does The Killing Joke. The Killing Joke was meant to be the Batman version of "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?", the final Pre-Crisis story for Batman the same way that that story was the final Pre-Crisis story for Superman.
I'm fine with the idea that the Joker having multiple personalities: Grant Morrison did something along those lines in Arkham Asylum: A serious House My Joker, bent and whipped like a sapling in a breeze, was a damaged human being reacting to every shift in the zeitgeist, every change in the weather, by constructing a new personality in response. This made him a man of a million false fronts - as he was described by Bill Finger in a very early story. Rolling with the flow made him unstable, prone to revision at the drop of a purple hat, but true to decades of stories. What I _don't_ like is the notion that he owes it to the efforts of some wandering super-psychiatrist. By making him someone else's deliberate creation, it diminishes him and makes him more mundane, a construct rather than a unique oddity.
I wish Three Jokers was a plot line where The Joker kidnap and mindcontrol 2-3 victims to be The Joker so they can make his plan go as plan without Batman or Batfamily stop him. The Tree Jokers would never last. Having more than 1 character makes crowed and hard to use. Limit to 1 makes easy to tell stories without going where are the other 2?
That angle would neatly tie into the Batman beyond Return of the Joker. I think that would have been a beautiful approach to explaining the 3 Joker’s. It would even suggest that his madness even confuses the chair. All 3 represent facets of him and he embodies all 3 of them.
@@ayoimiideoshikanlu8505 I dont think anyone in DC is interested on writing a Batman Beyond Title. The problem with Batman's works is that they want to be "realistic" but make them this unstoppable force of nature.
This illustrates the importance of head cannons. I had my own thoughts on how the joker evolved in his eras without being told. It’s fun adding to the story with your own details. Having a specific explanation kinda takes the fun out of a character that has thrived on mystery and multiple choices. It’s not a huge deal because backstory details are changed constantly but for me it’s not the twist the writers think it is. It’s just making 1 guy 3 caricatures of a caricature
Now hear me out, imagine if they made an animated adaptation of Three Jokers... Troy Baker: The Clown Richard Epcar: The Comedian John DiMaggio: The Criminal (Mark Hamill retired Joker already, plus even if he WAS cast, people would probably assume the one Joker he was voicing was the "real" Joker.)
In my headcanon there is only one physical joker with a bunch of different personalities, and thanks to his training from "we have hugo strange at home" he can make those personalities imprint on other people through torture and psychological conditioning.
Great video as always! Making the 3 Jokers just a mind trick was an absolute cop out. I love the idea and was disappointed we never got a "real" answer!
I image the chair answering like a wikipedia search and showing a list of people who have gone by the name Joker through out all of time / universes / reboots
I wonder if the Three Jokers was inspired by the three versions of Blofeld in the Ian Fleming Bond novels. In each of the three books he appears in (Thunderball, On her Majesty's Secret Service and You Only Live Twice) he has a different alias and radically different physical appearance, indicating that he is slowly losing his sanity. In 'Thunderball' he's an obese middle aged man with a crew cut. In OHNSS, he has changed his name to Compte Balthazar de Bleuville and is now tall and thin with no earlobes. In YOLT, he calls himself Dr. Guntram Shatterhand, and has put on a lot of muscle and has gold teeth. These changes illustrate his plunge into insanity.
I like the idea in concept, three jokers, allowing for three different personalities each based on aspects taken from the different adaptations, of the character.
I love how Geoff Johns cuts through the myths of Batman characters, both in this and Earth One. The Joker isn’t some tortured philosopher who went mad from one bad day, he was an abusive asshole who made himself the victim
Jack in the killing Joke was no philosopher. Joker has always, in every continuity been anti-philosophical. Socrates stated that the unexamined life is not worth living, wereas no incarnation of the joker sees value in examing one's life. even in the killing joke, the implication of his stance is that tragedy would wipe away anything philosophy could give you. he is basically the foil to Socrates in a Platonic dialogue where Socrates says something like "the best life is a moral life" and the other guy repliess "pfff if I stab you and take your stuf I live a good life and you don't live at all". The joker is not a philosopher; the joker is a philosopher's foil. Although I wouldn't call Batman much of a philosopher either.
The current joker having three personalities and being trained by the same teacher is just a different origin story for the joker that is still a good for the current continuity.
So, was this before or after "the Joker is actually immortal" storyline? And does Batman know Joker's true name or not?? And that Hugo Strange knock-off taught Batman about psychology, sure...but what did he actually "teach" the Joker? How to be insane...? Speaking of, I think it was Grant Morrison's run that suggested the Joker is actually "hyper-sane", having an evolved form of consciousness that adapts so well, that he basically becomes different personas over time...
I liked and shared this with my brother so he could watch while hes working and im subscribed! Doing all the youtuber things is easy with your vids sasha cause theyre just so dang good!
Your videos on the three jokers were the first videos from this channel i watched so this is an extra nice folloe up for me. Three Jokers is such weird story with beautiful art and one fun fic on ao3
first time viewer here! i got the recommendation from a random tweet about (actually) good non toxic comic channels and here we are! loved the video, i'll make sure to check the channel often
LOL. I can't believe I didn't realize you were changing the wigs until you flashed all three of "you" at the end. Something subconsciously bugged me about it, but I didn't realize what it was until then. Nicely played!
The use of the different hair and outfits is clever, makes me laugh, I applaud you effort and respect the work (I can't paint my nails black without messing it up)
I LOVE the three Sasha you've got going on in this, but I have to admit that seeing you without glasses kinda freaked me out. I just wasn't prepared for it.
Great job explaining such a convoluted plot point. It's a fun concept but I wish they executed it a bit better. I gotta say, I love what you did with your hair and makeup in this one!
I remember when this book was announced and so many people going on how clever and amazing this idea was from Geoff Johns...only all I could think about was how "There are actually multiple Jokers thus explaining his change in motives and how dark or silly is changed" was a theory already floating around some parts of fandom for awhile. Johns often seemed in tune with fandom so so didn't surprise me much. Hell, even Batman: The Brave and The Bold Alfried fanfic future episode went there including the type of "recruitment" methods in Three Jokers.
Let's Add A Wrinkle Maybe - Follow Up
ua-cam.com/video/PFpcItx0Z-8/v-deo.html
Batman: The chair told me there were three Jokers.
Green Lantern: So, naturally you asked for the real name of each individual Joker, right?
I like the implication, that with “there’s three”, the chair was asking for Bruce to elaborate on which one he meant, while Bruce is just having a crisis for the entire arc and never thinks to ask a follow up question.
At the very least he could of asked for the names of each of the three jokers.
The "there's three" answer doesn't really work with the final reveal, nor even within its own story. The final reveal was that one physical person became the "three Jokers"; the answer for anyone searching for the identity of the Joker is the identity of that one physical person. The teasing non-answer only really works if the Mobius Chair was intentionally screwing with Batman. (To be fair, the chair is apparently at least semi-sentient? So maybe it *was* legitimately messing with Bruce.) The answer arguably doesn't worth within its own story because Batman is apparently somehow so shocked at the impossibility (which is already silly in a comic book world) that he didn't even bother to complain or clarify the non-answer.
I also like the implication that Batman doesn’t want a full answer; he wants clues so he can figure things out on his own.
@@gamelairtimi thought the implication was that he thought he knew the answer and was asking the chair in order to test it, which further implies he didnt think anyone except himself and someone who litterally knew everything would know those two things, which is absurd because the Joker has known those two things for a very long time. Batman would have to have known the actual answer or he wouldn't have put Jack's family into hiding, however at least in the continuity I am familiar with, Ridddler knew as well.
I liked the idea but hated how they used it.
I'm just glad they never called it Jok3rs
Don't... don't give them ideas
Omg😭
That title is reserved for Folie a deux’s sequel
That's a missed opportunity.
Jok3rzz
Watching you swap between the 3 wigs got me more excited then this plotline.
Same lol
Savage
Seriously.
❤
There were actually 3 Sasha’s all along:
The Superman’s girlfriend Lois Laner
The obscure character deep diver
And the most twisted of all…
The cursed panel-er
🃏
Don't forget the 4th one....
_....the soft serve fixated one..._
That would explain how she finds time for all these deep dives with little kids running around. One to research. One to write the script, and one to record. And all three wear different wigs around the house.
There's a card emoji?
Edit: Oh I Found It!🃏
Now we need a recut of this episode so we can tell which Sasha/wig combo is the real one and what the true message is...
@@djpegao we're all that one deep down.
>has a chair that can answer any question
>doesn't ask who the 3 jokers are
World's greatest detective
"everyone lives because you haven't decided to kill them" is one of the worst lines in comicbook history, IMO.
I think that's a bit dramatic, it's not good but it's not shattering the comic book medium
90's writers: It is! Then we're not doing our jobs.
It's chock-full of edgelordium.
I'm still stuck on the line at 12:23
"The third is calm like a black ocean at night. And like that ocean all that waits for you is COLD DEATH"
Ow. The EDGE.
Also the line before that. "I don't believe in heaven or hell, but if I did I'd think this man had existed for millennia, tormenting humanity in service of something greater."
What does that even mean.
@@cartoonishidealism582 I'm pretty sure its supposed to be referencing another idea floated around in the comics that the Joker was the result of some deep evil seeded into the heart of Gotham that had plagued the location for centuries. And the Joker we knew was just the latest form that evil had taken
"Twitter/X/Hell" caught me off guard.
Twitter was three Social Networks this whole time, that was the biggest twist of all.
That got me good that got me to pause the video and just laugh out loud
I mean, she ain’t lyin’
The true Three Jokers
Never understood why "The World's Greatest Detective" never asked a follow up question.
My feeling is this: while Batman may be DC’s greatest detective, not all of the writers are. Apply to any medium you choose.
@@jpboursaw4469srsly, ffr
For the same reason Hacksnider turned Batman into the World’s Biggest Dumbass in the bVs abomination… the writer had no idea how to tell a good story about BATMAN, how BATMAN would act and what BATMAN would do.
They spend way more time and effort on what THEY would do and the choices they would make if they were Batman.
And it completely ruins things every single time.
That can be chalked up to three words. Lazy, sh***y writing.
@@SlimmArmstrong this applies to every writer in history what are you even yapping about right now?
Jason Fabok's art was the best part about Three Jokers.
Re-reading it for this video I kept having these "gosh this is a gorgeous book" moments.
I bought the Absolute version and I completely agree with you.
His art is absolutely fantastic
Best part by miles!
I got to look at the third issue last year. I couldn't believe how gorgeous the art was . Especially Batgirl!
I, for one, think the Joker is a lot more interesting when his importance is downplayed.
The difference between him and the rest of Batman’s rogues gallery is that he is essentially Batman’s stalker. He doesn’t really have a plan on what to do AFTER killing him, their rivalry is Joker’s only reason to keep going.
But making this relationship mutual just doesn’t work. Batman doesn’t need the Joker, he never has, and his life would be better without him in it.
Hell, imagine how funny it would be if he didn’t even consider Joker to be his real nemesis. If Bruce secretly held a bigger grudge toward, say, Bane, for example. But Joker is unable to even entertain that thought. He NEEDS to believe that Batman spends as much time thinking about him as he does thinking about Batman.
The problem with it is that the writers are obsessed with the joker. Every big batman plot is about the joker.
This makes me think of the scene from the Lego batman movie.
@@somethingclever4297As are the fans. There'd be outrage if you were even to suggest the joker is not some badass antichrist figure
Yes to this. Part of the Joker is his need to be important. Not that he actually is. Whether he is a genuine criminal with a grandiose persona, a goofy clown trying to treat the world like a dark comedy for laughs, or a monster committing horrific atrocities, it's all because he needs attention. He needs to matter. So when his level of importance or ability is propped up by the writers it takes away from what actually makes the character special and interesting to the audience..
@@comicdans7732
Maybe if less writers bought into the Joker’s hype, we’d have less insufferable incels going on about how he was right all along
I feel like people have been overstating Joker recently. Like He's the most dangerous man in the planet? Not Lex, Savage,Faust, Kent, Thwane? Also I like Joker being a random element that results from Batman rather than someone sculpted to oppose him. Feels like it cheapens the relationship imo
The flipside of the coin for Batwank, Joker wank. The greatest threat ends up being a deranged clown who's decent at chemistry.
All of this comes from writers obsessed with "the Batman/Joker Dichotomy." They seem to think Batman keeps Joker alive because Joker is somehow important. He's not important to Batman, beyond being a dangerous criminal to stop. Batman doesn't kill the Joker simply because the Joker is human. The more the writers add in superhuman abilities ("super-sanity," vast intellect, super-powerful manipulation, and of course immunity to death becoming increasingly text instead of theme) the more likely Batman is to consider the Joker a nonhuman super-threat some day, and just stand aside while someone like Jason Todd takes him out and destroys the body.
I think the pre-New 52 era balanced the Joker best. Lex is certainly an alpha villain, but he makes it a point to include the Joker in his villain team-ups because it would be more of a headache to exclude him.
@@gembish1681 Considering it was the New 52 that started the whole stupid mess of Joker getting his face cut off, there's no way I could disagree with you.
@@SingularityOrbitI actually think Scott Snyder run was brilliant as it subverted expectations by making the Joker more of a slasher horror monster. Along with having a supernatural subtext later, again subverted as being a Court of Owls propaganda.
But even Snyder didn't give the Joker background or origin. Except he was the Red Hood.
The idea of three (or many) Jokers as mental states of the same man makes a lot more sense than three different physical beings running around as the Joker and Batman hadn't realized it years ago. He's supposed to be the world's greatest detective. The most observant man on the planet. He couldn't tell that there were three different men under that shock of green hair? Plus, Joker has always reveled in his own uniqueness. Surely, one of them would have killed the other two ages ago.
In the Three Jokers comic I think I remember Batman addressing this, that Joker would be doing a crime which should be impossible because Joker was already in prison.
Eh, given the brutal beatings The Joker takes, I can accept that he can't figure that one out. "Well, after the last time I destroyed his face, yeah, he needed a lot of surgery. And given all the other times I've done this, that entire face is made out of reconstructive surgery". Batman can easily write it off as "Joker's face keeps getting shattered and reconstructed so of course he doesn't look the same". It's not like the model for MJ in the Spider-Man games looks like the same person after her face was shattered irl and it was rebuilt.
“But they were all clowns… committing CRIMES! I assumed you’d only ever encounter one of those in your life.”
@@PosthumanHeresyGreatest detective right there. “Uh…. really good plastic surgery? Also, a little weight gain once in a while, happens to the best of us. And I assumed he smoked, hence the voice change. The eye color? Oh, easy, contact lenses. And lifts in his shoes made him an inch taller. You see, he thought that if he changed just slightly, I wouldn’t recognize him. Clever trick, but not clever enough!”
Surely the chair wouldn’t be so pedantic
I tend to fall into the camp of "the Joker is used way too much". I'd like to see other members of the rogues gallery get their day in the sun!
Worst example of that is probably killing him off in Arkham city, making a prequel where black mask is the main villain only for it to be revealed that joker killed him and took his place, and then making a sequel where scarecrow turns Batman schizo, causing him to see joker everywhere. Funny thing about that is that it was mark hamill’s biggest role of 2015(in terms of screen time), despite, well, you know
I unironically didn't know that Sasha was wearing wigs all this time.
I thought she changed it every day like Ramona Flowers and that her hair fiber was absolutely destroyed by the dye.
It's just the timelines converging pay it no mind
The problem with the Jokers is that there don't feel like three different people.
It only works if make them feel and act differently from each other.
The Clown shouldn't be a murderer. The Criminal shouldn't be funny and be the mastermind.
If they are too close to each other then the idea doesn't work.
Your point is taken, but my feeling has always been that, much like how we follow the recent exploits of characters who irt are in Batman's case an octogenarian LOL, the concept was meant to 'explain' the multitudes of cuckoo like cocoa puffs that seemed to inhabit this one force of chaotic random, so there has to be a throughline between Jokers as they are all dark but their 'different' outward modal operandi define those three 'main' Jokers as described/defined. But when the 'hey let's make some more Jokers!" part came in it lost a lot of momentum in being what they were trying to make it when it was supposed to slot in before Doomsday Clock and (possibly)could have gone through the smell test Sasha defines as whether popularity would bring it into canon, and maybe it would have seemed less WTF than it turned out to be in the wake of both Covid and the regime change at DC, so much so we are here watching a video about it 4 years later [shrugs]😁
I think this is the inherent flaw of the concept though.
These three Joker archetypes are in fact not totally divergent.
The Criminal is meant to be the first Joker iteration. This one is popularly alleged to be serious rather than funny, but I don't agree. The early 40s Joker did not have all the clown paraphernalia, but definitely had mirth. He was much like the classic villain archetype which has a humorous element (think Sweeney Todd - not the musical, the original penny dreadful and melodrama plays).
The Clown is meant to be bronze age. Again, this one was most definitely murderous as well as clowny.
What I love most about this retcon is that it made the Mobius Chair NOT all-knowing
Holy shit, “IM NEVER LEAVING THIS CHAIR.” You’re Batman impression is on point 👌🏾
I hope that chair had a hole for shit. The Mobius Toilet.
The joker is insane. Thats all the explanation that was ever needed for his differing characterizations. I really wish they never introduced the idea.
Sometimes the simplest explanation is the best.
And very mercurial. Meaning that, he is as likely to be amusing and magnanimous as he is dangerous and cruel. Whatever the mood takes him. He can be a harmless clown one moment, and murderous the next. Whatever type of performance he feels like doing this week lol
I once read something that said the chair told batman "i can't tell you. The writers won't allow it." But i had no concept of what a "shitpost" was so i took that as fact.
Looking back, that unironically would have been a more interesting and eerie thing for the chair to have told him. It'd be like, he ascended to such a high level, he knocked on the very boundaries of his reality, and what he saw was so startling it knocked him back down to earth. That, and they wouldn't have had to write some convoluted story around it.
That actually would fit really well, honestly. Reminds me of the metastory of Final Crisis.
That would be like when the fantastic four met the one above all and it was jack kirby
10:06 "Steve Jobs" Joker I'm pretty sure is meant to be Joker from Batman Beyond Return of the Joker.
Poor Tim
@@CasuallyComics When I was a child, I always turned off the VHS tape after the Tim scene because of how upsetting it was. I never finished the move until I was a teenager.
Batman Beyond Return of the Joker is a better Killing Joke adaptation than the actual adaptation from 2016.
man imagine tim cook having a joker microchip in him
69 nice!
1:46
Hal even has a construct beer can! 😂
It took me until 16 minutes in to figure out the reason the hair color kept changing was that there were three Sashas.
I really love the unaddressed wig changes throughout this video. 😂
It seems like they're trying to give answers, but also raise more questions and they're doing a bad job at both of those.
I find Zdarsky's Three Jokers explanation to be the logical endpoint for Morrison's concept of super sanity. It's the reason why the Joker acts so differently in different eras for Batman, why he can be a funny trickster, into a psychotic maniac to a calm and reserved killer, to simply a chaotic force of nature.
It makes sense as well from a thematic standpoint since Zdarsky is pulling on threads from that run specifically.
Problem is that Morrisons approach is and was heavily flawed with explaining things that do not need explanation.
There is absolutely no need to include everything in continuity. Nor is there a need for metatexual explanation.
@@Lukecash2I disagree, what hits the comic book paper outta be resolved on the comic book paper. Otherwise there is even more confusion.
@@Lukecash2 the thing is that core audience that buys comic books nowadays love continuity. Theres a reason why so many comic movies, cartoons, etc. are done in their own universes end up being more popular
I feel like everyone forgets that the super-sanity isn't supposed to be taken seriously. The person saying that is explicitly supposed to be as insane as The Joker. That's like, the point of that scene. The next few lines after that are that doctor suggesting it as the next stage of human evolution. The story ends with Batman freeing _everyone_ from Arkham because Arkham is evil in a Lovecraftian way and turns everyone who works or lives there insane. The landmass that Arkham is built on created an entire stable timeloop that causes its own destruction in that story. Super-sanity was never correct, it was the first sign that Arkham doctors are as insane as Arkham patients.
Your Batman voices always cracks me up
Give us more Jokers. 5 Jokers. 10 Jokers. 69 Jokers. 420 Jokers. All of the Jokers.
The legion of doom where everybody is the Joker.
The Cross Time Council of Infinite Jokers
What was most frustrating for me at least is that you COULD split the Joker into three easy facets, but the series seemed to miss the mark.
It seems easy to do Mob Boss, Prankster, and Serial Killer. Instead we have Mob Boss and Prankster/Serial Killer muddled into each other.
Fun fact: I was knitting and not paying much attention while watching and I kept looking up to see you in different wigs and I thought I was hallucinating lol
The Three Jokers plot sounds like The Joker infected from Arkham Knight
Or the Valaska Twins from Gotham.
Sadly the multi Joekr plot is quickly becoming a trope as this point
@@JohnWilliams-wl9px better than endless progressively worse references to The Killing Joke.
Your outro is so sweet, it always makes me happy. A triple "bye-bye" is MAGIC!
In all honesty, I hated The 3 Jokers story. The things that I had read about it was leading me to believe everyone most effected by The Joker's actions were going to give each person some closure to the trauma they endured. Mainly Jason and Barbara. It didn't do any of that. It seemed to make it much worse especially for Jason. I could have done without all of that nonsense.
Lately it just seems like DC just wants to abuse Jason in stories.
The three Sashas....wigs galore 😂😂
I've read some of Batman's Golden Age stuff recently. Everything about him was really rough back then and improved over the years. Except one: The Joker.
I personaly think Golden Age Joker was simply the best depict of the character. He was cold, calculist, a twisted and sadist genius. Feels a lot like Ledger's Joker.
I think most versions of the character that came later are either too goofy/silly or too desperately edgy.
I remember when Three Jokers was originally a thing while Doomsday Clock was happening; at the time I theorized that one of the Jokers was actually the child of Mime and Marionette that Dr. Manhattan brought with him to the DC Universe when he moved over.
I wish that the claim the "The Killing Joke was never meant to be canon" would just stop. The book was planned to canon from the get go. Barbara Kesel, the writer of Batgirl Special #1 stated that she was commissioned to write that book specifically to set up the status quo change for Barbara in The Killing Joke, and the first mention the events of The Killing Joke was a few months later in the first part of the Death in the Family arc.
No, that's wrong. Batgirl Special #1 is a send-off, not a setup to the new status quo. In fact, Batgirl Special #1 actually _further_ cements that it was never meant to be canon. Why? Because Batgirl Special #1 is _explicitly_ a Pre-Crisis Timeline story. It frequently and heavily refers to the Pre-Crisis canon and lore, _not_ the Post-Crisis canon and lore. As does The Killing Joke. The Killing Joke was meant to be the Batman version of "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?", the final Pre-Crisis story for Batman the same way that that story was the final Pre-Crisis story for Superman.
I'm fine with the idea that the Joker having multiple personalities: Grant Morrison did something along those lines in Arkham Asylum: A serious House
My Joker, bent and whipped like a sapling in a breeze, was a damaged human being reacting to every shift in the zeitgeist, every change in the weather, by constructing a new personality in response. This made him a man of a million false fronts - as he was described by Bill Finger in a very early story. Rolling with the flow made him unstable, prone to revision at the drop of a purple hat, but true to decades of stories.
What I _don't_ like is the notion that he owes it to the efforts of some wandering super-psychiatrist. By making him someone else's deliberate creation, it diminishes him and makes him more mundane, a construct rather than a unique oddity.
"Twitter/X/Hell." That line made me chuckle
I wish Three Jokers was a plot line where The Joker kidnap and mindcontrol 2-3 victims to be The Joker so they can make his plan go as plan without Batman or Batfamily stop him.
The Tree Jokers would never last. Having more than 1 character makes crowed and hard to use. Limit to 1 makes easy to tell stories without going where are the other 2?
That angle would neatly tie into the Batman beyond Return of the Joker. I think that would have been a beautiful approach to explaining the 3 Joker’s. It would even suggest that his madness even confuses the chair. All 3 represent facets of him and he embodies all 3 of them.
@@ayoimiideoshikanlu8505 I dont think anyone in DC is interested on writing a Batman Beyond Title.
The problem with Batman's works is that they want to be "realistic" but make them this unstoppable force of nature.
Well if I remember correctly, the other 2 are now dead.
Joker already did that during the previous Arc before Joker Year 1. The Victim gained Amnesia and began acting like he was the original.
And after losing his mind tried to kill the original and any others in a turf war.
So if you ask the Mobius chair, who is Batman. Will it say that there's two batmen because of Zur-en-ar?
Batman: What's the Joker's true name?
Chair: Tuesday at 5pm
This illustrates the importance of head cannons.
I had my own thoughts on how the joker evolved in his eras without being told. It’s fun adding to the story with your own details. Having a specific explanation kinda takes the fun out of a character that has thrived on mystery and multiple choices.
It’s not a huge deal because backstory details are changed constantly but for me it’s not the twist the writers think it is. It’s just making 1 guy 3 caricatures of a caricature
"We have Prof. Hugo Strange at home." That is hysterical 😂
Now hear me out, imagine if they made an animated adaptation of Three Jokers...
Troy Baker: The Clown
Richard Epcar: The Comedian
John DiMaggio: The Criminal
(Mark Hamill retired Joker already, plus even if he WAS cast, people would probably assume the one Joker he was voicing was the "real" Joker.)
The Three Sasha's: Dark Emerald Sasha, Florescent Lime Sasha, and Green Highlight Sasha
(Twitter, X... Hell lol)
I appreciate the commitment to the bit; even three different lipsticks!
That thumbnail is winning 1000% Your Batman voice though 😆
Now the question is which Joker in Joker: The Man Who Stopped Laughing was the real Joker.
In my headcanon there is only one physical joker with a bunch of different personalities, and thanks to his training from "we have hugo strange at home" he can make those personalities imprint on other people through torture and psychological conditioning.
Great video as always!
Making the 3 Jokers just a mind trick was an absolute cop out. I love the idea and was disappointed we never got a "real" answer!
I've always enjoyed it when creepy or disturbing things like 3 jokers are left ambiguous and unanswered
I image the chair answering like a wikipedia search and showing a list of people who have gone by the name Joker through out all of time / universes / reboots
I wonder if the Three Jokers was inspired by the three versions of Blofeld in the Ian Fleming Bond novels. In each of the three books he appears in (Thunderball, On her Majesty's Secret Service and You Only Live Twice) he has a different alias and radically different physical appearance, indicating that he is slowly losing his sanity. In 'Thunderball' he's an obese middle aged man with a crew cut. In OHNSS, he has changed his name to Compte Balthazar de Bleuville and is now tall and thin with no earlobes. In YOLT, he calls himself Dr. Guntram Shatterhand, and has put on a lot of muscle and has gold teeth. These changes illustrate his plunge into insanity.
Blofeld became a title for the head of spectre
I always wondered why they made such drastic recasts for the character in the films and why they felt like they needed to explain it in the plot.
I'm in love with your Batman voice impression
I love the commitment to the three jokers theme with the three different wigs/looks!
I like the idea in concept, three jokers, allowing for three different personalities each based on aspects taken from the different adaptations, of the character.
I love how Geoff Johns cuts through the myths of Batman characters, both in this and Earth One. The Joker isn’t some tortured philosopher who went mad from one bad day, he was an abusive asshole who made himself the victim
Jack in the killing Joke was no philosopher. Joker has always, in every continuity been anti-philosophical. Socrates stated that the unexamined life is not worth living, wereas no incarnation of the joker sees value in examing one's life. even in the killing joke, the implication of his stance is that tragedy would wipe away anything philosophy could give you. he is basically the foil to Socrates in a Platonic dialogue where Socrates says something like "the best life is a moral life" and the other guy repliess "pfff if I stab you and take your stuf I live a good life and you don't live at all". The joker is not a philosopher; the joker is a philosopher's foil. Although I wouldn't call Batman much of a philosopher either.
@@markbasilejr1169Great points!
This purple and green are really nice with your skin tone. As always great comic knowledge and lore breakdown!
Your black and green wig looks just glorious on you, Sasha! Have a great day! 🌞
The current joker having three personalities and being trained by the same teacher is just a different origin story for the joker that is still a good for the current continuity.
So, was this before or after "the Joker is actually immortal" storyline? And does Batman know Joker's true name or not?? And that Hugo Strange knock-off taught Batman about psychology, sure...but what did he actually "teach" the Joker? How to be insane...? Speaking of, I think it was Grant Morrison's run that suggested the Joker is actually "hyper-sane", having an evolved form of consciousness that adapts so well, that he basically becomes different personas over time...
joker being immortal was trick he was playing on Batman and Gordon. That was years ago
@@ItsOver9000Productions Ah, ok, thanks! When you get your comic lore from videos like this, it all tends to blur together...lol
3 Sasha’s? Green Arrow’s worst nightmare and Lois Lane will pick only one!
Side story is the Avengers disbanding while they have the chance.
I'm always here for that amazing Batman impression. Just adds to a great video
This has been your best review to date! Very stylized and thoughtful! Thank you for making this.
Amazing vid! Your assessment of the story was 100% on point and those wigs were the best. Amazing.
I appreciate the detail of you having three different outfits lol. Great video!
How Many Jokers Is To Many?
2
1
5002
2.
3
your batman voice is TOP tier
This was an amazing video. I loved the swaps. You're one of the best lowkey UA-camrs around. You deserve a bigger following ❤
Thank you, I been wondering about this.
Batman’s three weed-smoking girlfriends, and yes, they do smoke weed
But do they smoke weed?
@@gregcourtney751Not just weed!
smorking*
Perfect refference
Well done on having the three personas be so seamless in the audio.
I thoroughly appreciate the production value of this vid!!!!!!
This is the best review I've seen of this. I've seen too many outside thoughts and redirections from others but you were spot on!
This is literally the only comics channel I've seen that gets basic pronunciation correct. Good work
Thanks for sum that up for me did not read DC during thisera appreciate all the hard work you put in the video. Very nice.
I liked and shared this with my brother so he could watch while hes working and im subscribed! Doing all the youtuber things is easy with your vids sasha cause theyre just so dang good!
Was so confused about what was going on in the outro until you showed all three outfits together 😂
Changing your hair color and makeup between shoots is such a power move 😭
The topic for this video was great but the outfit, wig, and makeup changes were an awesome idea! Thanks for the incredibly entertaining video.
Your videos on the three jokers were the first videos from this channel i watched so this is an extra nice folloe up for me. Three Jokers is such weird story with beautiful art and one fun fic on ao3
Had to be hell to edit. Good stuff as always
Great vid! 👍🏿
Your Batman voice never gets old LOL
Your video is perfection gorgeous make-up, pretty wigs and excellent editing a true master piece
Thanks for revisiting this.
Sahsa Wood, Thank you for the three Sasha's thing you did in this one, very cool style.
Like the deep dive, and how Sasha low-key flexed her powers to alter her style to fit the narrative. Editing must have been crazy hard!
first time viewer here! i got the recommendation from a random tweet about (actually) good non toxic comic channels and here we are! loved the video, i'll make sure to check the channel often
LOL. I can't believe I didn't realize you were changing the wigs until you flashed all three of "you" at the end. Something subconsciously bugged me about it, but I didn't realize what it was until then.
Nicely played!
This video must’ve been a heck of a time for you to edit,but the end product is definitely worth it.
The use of the different hair and outfits is clever, makes me laugh, I applaud you effort and respect the work (I can't paint my nails black without messing it up)
I LOVE the three Sasha you've got going on in this, but I have to admit that seeing you without glasses kinda freaked me out. I just wasn't prepared for it.
Great video!!
Always love your Batman voice.😊
Great job explaining such a convoluted plot point. It's a fun concept but I wish they executed it a bit better.
I gotta say, I love what you did with your hair and makeup in this one!
I remember when this book was announced and so many people going on how clever and amazing this idea was from Geoff Johns...only all I could think about was how "There are actually multiple Jokers thus explaining his change in motives and how dark or silly is changed" was a theory already floating around some parts of fandom for awhile. Johns often seemed in tune with fandom so so didn't surprise me much. Hell, even Batman: The Brave and The Bold Alfried fanfic future episode went there including the type of "recruitment" methods in Three Jokers.
Your Batman voice had me in stitches.