The Age Old Debate: Fox vs. RockShox
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- Опубліковано 27 жов 2023
- • Rocshox Vivid vs Fox F...
Unfiltered Insight: Exploring RockShox and Fox Suspensions for Trail Dominance
Fox 36 and Float X
Rockshox Lyric and Superdeluxe
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Would the butter cups make a difference in the ultimate?? I’ve heard that they help with the fatigue and chatter.
Yes have them in my zeb and they work wonders. Super plush fork. If you know how to tune it is just as good as the fox. Fox is more planted rockshox has more pop
I can only speak for the Zeb. It does help take the high frequency chatter out of trail kinda isolates your body from it, but back to back runs 38 Zeb Butter cups is kinda a gimmick
I slapped on the standard 2022 Float X and 2022 36 Rhythm on my 2016 Giant Reign frame.
Good choice’s
Thanks for sharing. Question on that Yari fork. You mentioned it has the Damper 2.1 but does it have the Debonair B1 (
Latest version, but in another video I made the Yari ride plush. Rockshox YaRRi Supreme
ua-cam.com/video/pqzoi9Nl9fQ/v-deo.html
@@OtterMTBtech, Thx. I’ve tried the B1 air shaft with bump stop removed and it was a bit too much negative air. The frontend gets sucked into the dips. I also tried the C1 with removed and also tried trimmed bump stops (maybe only 3mm left on the bump stop) to get a little negative chamber since the C1 doesn’t have small bump sensitivity and the B1 does due to more negative air chanber but it didn’t feel right with the deleted or trimmed bumper C1. Anyway, my Lyrik Ultimate RC2.1/B1/170mm is feeling like its too damped while the rear Float X is more lively/poppy with really good small bump sensitivity. My Levo Gen3 feels very ‘divy’… I’m still a bit lost with the front end and wonder if I should check the Fox38. We’ll see.
Does the lyric have charger 2 damper. I had to crank the compression up with the Yari Superme.
It has the Charger 2.1 RC2.
I have the Compression open. I will try that next time. I have 5 Lyrik Ultimates Charger 2.1, RC2. They all have different Debonair airshafts: B1/C1. The one I have on my Levo has the “too damped” feel. My Heckler 2 also have the same fork but it has a very balanced feel when jumping. The fork has a good pop to it but not the one of the Levo. I’m not sure why that is. Both bikes weigh the same at 49 lbs. Anyway, I’ll look into it. Thx
That’s the bike not fork. Santa Cruz VPP is like a hard tail. Specialized is a plush bucket
Hey Otter have a suggestion for you for a video as I asked GMBN they did make a video but really didn't cover the topic ...
I have a Megatower 2 with a Rockshox select+(absolutely gross standard shock for an enduro monster) I have a 38 Grip 2 on the front but I'm really struggling what class of Air shock to go - DH/Enduro class(X2/Vivid) or 'Aggressive' all mountain/Enduro class(Float X/Super deluxe Ultimate) I do alot of pedalling in my rides average 20-25km/500-600m (12.5-15.5mile/1640-1970feet) hit some gnarly rocky DH with bits of flow and jumps, also techy rocky climbs and long fire road climbs - really do it all. Is the heavier more sluggish DH class shock with all the adjustments or lighter slightly more active all mountain/enduro with LSC a better option... Really stuck in the middle here of which way I should go!
The new Super Deluxe Ultimate is 1.25% better than the previous model, NO brainer to go Fox if you have a 38 hanging out the front and like it. Vivid is good shock, I compared it to X2. I did a full day Float X vs X2 linked video here. Float X can hang anywhere and will jump better and pedal better, but with your 165 rear travel and it being a VPP X2 all day. Santa Cruz bikes pedal like a hardtail and need the extra plushness, I would go Coil on the Santa Cruz in fact. When going coil no need to be picky Rockshox is fine, it slows that long travel down in the chunk, less moving parts more reliable. MAKE SURE if you go X2 it is 2024 or do not get it.ua-cam.com/video/f90oAaXr3tE/v-deo.html
@@OtterMTBtech Thanks for the reply mate( although my wallet doesn't 😆)
You nailed the feel of the Megatower it does pedal like a beast and can feel harsh - man now you have thrown me a curve ball with a coil, I wanted to keep the weight down so I will probably end up going for the X2(I've heard all the horror stories of the last couple of years!) Again really appreciate the response!
I blew up a X2 in 50 miles, so you gotta run the 2024 or pre 2021. I rode Santa Bullit for a week and it was so harsh in the rear end with that Super Deluxe I know precisely what your talking about. If you want the Divine feel go with a EXT coil and its 2 oz heavier than X2. It also doesn't come cheap. cheers @@mattfarrar5472
Have you tried leeting more air out the lyrik and adding compression instead to make it sit high in its travel? I have a chrager 3 Pike ultimate and i could get it to track the roots without having arm pump. Waht I like in comparisson to the charger 2.1 is the it sits higher in its travel and does not go up and down this much.
I did try that, personally didn’t like it, since it was more nose diving.
@@OtterMTBtech can't behavior of the fork a lot. If I understood you correctly the zeb had no issues and you are happy with it?
Zeb Vivid combo was great besides arm pump. Lyric is the best jumping fork ever made, un beatable on smooth trails. Fun on green trails. Terrifying on tech trails. I also basically suck at riding so rely heavily on equipment to make it down trail.
How do you like that Pike Ultimate Charger 3? I just ordered a Propain Hugene with that fork. They had a Charger 2.1 in the build configurator but I wanted the Charger 3 because of the buttercups. From what I've read, they help with small bumps and chatter.
Hey, so fox is better in downhill and enduro? And what about ebikes?
Fox is better
@@OtterMTBtech how about trail bikes? fox or rock shox?
@@OtterMTBtech what is better in ebike fox or fox ebike tuned
I like how you point out serviceability, keeping the idea of repair alive seems to be something getting lossed these days.
Been running 34s for the last 6 years been great but Im due to upgrade so considering the 36. I heard rock shocks have getting a lot better in recent years but I really do prefer the do it all good if the fox that I do agree with😊
Fox 🦊
If it’s abnormally poppy and it’s bouncing off rocks then you definitely don’t have it set up for traction. I’ve heard very different things from other reviews.
9:14 “I hate Rockshox products” sorry man but this is definitely biased
I own both 🤷♂️
@@OtterMTBtechwell obviously lol. Doesn’t mean it’s not biased
Bro just because I am transparent unlike 99% of UA-cam videos, does that make it worse
you should try the ultimate lyrik with the buttercups. This is a gamechanger. Never had a fork as comfortable through on rough terrain. I'm coming from a 36 factory '23 and rockshox just won me over with this masterpiece of fork.
Regarding services: Rockshox has really nice instructions on how to service your suspension. You can't service your float x at your regular workshop at home. Not a gamechanger, but worth to mention when talking about serviceability.
Glad it works for you. I had terrible experience on rough trail. Was the best jumping fork I ever rode agree with you on that. Rode Zeb Buttercups is kinda a gimmick small gains on braking bumps
buttercups is a marketing gimmick. they are trying to make a tiny rubber thing do what your tires are supposed to do, but tires just do it a lot better.
@@TeamCykelhold have you tried it? If you ever tried a non-ultimate version of the Lyrik or Zeb you'll definitely feel the difference. The difference is even bigger when riding on really chattery terrain - your arms will let you know what buttercups do!
@@hias_k Yes I have tried both extensively (old ultimate without BC and new ultimate with BC). I honestly don't notice it, although I like the 2.1 damper better and at 180+mm I think the new air shaft is too progressive. It could also be the crappy MOCO damper you can feel in the non-ultimate giving your arms a hard time (?).
Your tires should absorb a lot more chatter than the BCs do. That's their job.
I also have the same fork and forgot to add have an EXT Era tuned to V2.1 with lower compression shim stack. The Lyric buttercup is not a game changer but its a brilliant fork for pumpy / flowy/ jumpy terrain. The compression tune is way too high for rough trails. If you want game changer then try a smashpot or one of the upside down forks from intend. Even an ext era or a correctly set up Ohlins. Makes the Lyric feel like a toy.
Can you do a video how to set super deluxe rear shock?
2023 2nd Gen Rockshox Super Deluxe Set Up
ua-cam.com/video/TUBBIsMucww/v-deo.html
Love your vids my dude \,,/
Hey, thanks! Thinking about retiring
Did you have buttercups installed in the lyrik?
None butter
I guess it comes down to personal preference. I tried a 36 rhythm and it was either too plush or too harsh, and no mid stroke support. I found that even my old Yari felt better to me. The super deluxe vs float X is a different story. I don't really see any difference between those two when I ride them. I don't really jump, and I'm not a great rider, and don't care about brands but I'm massively disappointed with the fox fork.
Super valid point the Rythem here is 180mm. I hated it in 160. Video coming soon, with short travel variant
@@OtterMTBtech any news on this video? I have a status 160 with a 160mm rhythm, and I want to either upgrade it to a 180mm fox 38 factory, or a cheaper option like 180mm 36 performance with grip 2
So what about the Pike both Select and Ultimate.
Same fork as lyric. 🤷♀️.
Okay so it’s not just me that can’t get a lyric to be smooth. I never made mine work. I have an old 32 that I ended up going back to. My newer bikes have a z1 and the new sc domain and both work better then the old lyric that is just backup fork material
Old lyric is better. This one is all new
Sounds like you may want to ShockWiz your rockshox. I race enduro and have no issue with my unlimited
Fox 36 Rhythm 160mm fork works awesome with a compression dial re-clock trick and one air token.
which way
@@OtterMTBtech Take the sweep adjust compression knob off and re-clock it approximately 45 degrees clockwise. Screw back on. Then open compression all the way. This is the "more open" compression setting than the MIN possible factory setting, which helps small bump sensitivity.
Thanks will try sounds a-little sketch, but I thrive in that kinda stuff.
@@OtterMTBtech It's not really sketch, it's just a tiny bit less compression damping than MIN stock setting. It's a trick that a few others have used. Let me know how you like it.
I love both I've tried them all, fox is more adjustable and more race oriented for high speed and overall better for me. People think fox forks are "slow" I feel that that comes down to how you tune your rebound to your riding style. I tried the green lyrik but kept my 36 factory due to a more composed ride. Get the fox if you want speed!
Agree, gotta try both 👏 . On EXT 36 I recommend not trying, it’s to good.
Service time and cost is why I hardly ride my eMTB anymore. I feel like every ride must be “worth it” so I do it even less. Thats why these days all I do is ride my Onewheel. The thrill of life altering injury is the same but at least these deathboards requires zero maintenance.
😆 fully agree. I have a 9 speed Shimano Cues drivetrain. Whopping $24 cassette on Ali express. Long link Specialzied bike eats rear shock as appetizer. Every bolt red lock tighted. 1,000 miles on a Brose motor before it blows
Great vid, man!
I had my 2017 suoer deluxe custom tuned with an under sprung over damped shim stack and a digressive HSR by my suspension guru. He was Lopes's mechanic for his whole world cup career. He also had me get an HC97 put on my 2.1 lyrik damper, as well as a digressive HSR tune. Long story short: zero to hero for both. Short story long: EXPENSIVE. New bike in 2 months has a 38 and x2. 33 years MTB and have never had a fox anything. We shall see.
Digressive big words
Awesome review bro!
It's, a shame ear that about the new RS super deluxe ultimate shock because I just bought it :(.
I been riding coils for the last 2 years (150_160 rear travel ) and now I want to go back to air . My next custom bike it's 155mm rear and 170 front and after seeing this video I want to sent it back.
I riding hard most of the time speed lines , local steeps and technicals trails , drops and in summer bikepark ones per week .
I never ride a fox fork but I had the bomber Z1 160mm I really like it was very soft the problem was sinking a lot when I braked anyway it's a good fork.
After the marzocchi I been using only RS : Judy, 35,, revelation, pike, lyrik select ,domain and for the last 2 year the lyrik ultimate 2021 and I really like it the small bumps sensitivity and the recovery after hits some jumps.
Regarding rear suspension a had fox DPS DPX 2(I really love for the climb position) float X elite, float X performance I never want the X2 performance for usual problems. The difference with coil for me it's the maintenance, it's cheaper than the air , on tech the feedback on rockgardens and roots.
Coming from a mechanic I really appreciate this video
In your opinion What shock do you recommend me ?
Thanks man
Cheers
150 travel Float X all day everyday. If I had a Rockshox fork the SuperDeluxe coil.
I got the progressive air can for SD now. It works much better 80% of the Float X. It’s like the meg neg can. Can’t find one
Super interesting the my23 rock shock products are extremely hard to set up, they kind of went backwards. And then people get super confused because the originally lyric was plush and easy to set up.
Make sure we both talking about 2023 stuff.
Suspension shop keeps preaching coils for the same reason as you say about the maintenance and simpler.
What bike are you on?
Thanks for your answer bro.
Yes we are talking of the same year RS super deluxe ultimate RC2T Denon air +23.
Regarding the fork as I told you it's the previous lyrik 21 charger 2 , what do you think about marzocchi Cr coii Shock. Do you know if the grip regulation works the same as the fork I mean when you start to close the compresión became hard almost close .
I have a electric bike merida E one sixty 2022, specialized status 160 , and now I just bought the frameset of the banshee titan ( I was between the transition spire or the titan ) .
Anyway I'm still on time to return the shock if I change my mind it,s so bad? Or it's a matter of set up .
Thanks bro !
The lyiric is a great fork. I had it so plush and it flew over the rocks
Can you please share what you did? It’s a frustrating fork.
Yes please share i am not happy either 😅
@@OtterMTBtech
I had 2 volume spacers in it on my 30kg ebike
And about 10 lsc from open and 0 hsc
It was a 2021 lyirik 180 mm set to about 26%/28% sag
Bro the 2021 lyric is a different and I talked about it at the end of the video being a better all’s round fork
@@OtterMTBtech to be fair you called your video rockshox vs fox, not charger 3 vs 2.1 vs grip on the 38 vs .. ;) Click baited yourself! haha. Definitely like the older lyrik, and not a bad alternative to the fox 36 but... i.. i .. personally gave in and have a 38 now.
A Pike Ultimate inferior to a Rhythm??? Seriously??? (and i meant that genuinely, without sarcasm)
I have both but i never did a side by side comparison and they were both fitted to different frames, for different applications...I use the Pike for more xc oriented rides and the rhythm for more aggressive trail riding.
To say that a professionally set up Pike Ultimate is inferior to the Rhythm is a very interesting perspective. Perhaps i should pay more attention to them when i ride from now on.
@@KotakMeister 🫡
Fox has racing in its name for a reason. After spending more than a month trying to get a fox 36 performance elite to ride right, I will not buy another fox fork. Bought a zeb ultimate and loved out of the box. As for the 36 being plush, not my 36, I ended up changing out the damper fluid from 20wt to 10 wt to get it so it didn't feel like someone was hitting my bars with a hammer on every bump when trail riding. Love your videos but my experience is the opposite from yours.
Slightly agree on the 36. It’s not the magic ride of 38. Zeb is a good fork besides small bump.
My friends 34 had too much grease on assembly. Made it very harsh. After cleaning and reassembling it works way better.
i have a 36 performance from 2021 and it feels like a shit, the rebound is practically unexistent and just made me stay away from any fox product (i had it serviced but nothing happened)
What you riding now?
Have had fox float, dpx2, X2 ( utter garbage) float X and RS super deluxe ultimate. Also own a fox 38 grip 2, lyric ultimate charger 3 rc2 and fox 36 g2. Agree with everything on this video 100%.
Fox float X is a standout and bomproof shock. Its the best product they have yet made.
Lyric is a great trail and brilliant jump fork but destroys you in the rough unless the compression circuit is rebuilt.
The RS deluxe ultimate is such a dead feeling shock. It kills the fun on a bike. When run very open it just gets wobbly and uncontrolled so is frustratingly difficult to tune.
At least someone agrees with me. Thanks for comment. Thanks for comment. I felt like I was the only one. you still have the RockShox ?
Running 36 factory and float x on a slope bike and they are holding all the stress
😎 that’s not really suspension
That rebound isn’t too fast. It’s too slow. It’s not letting the wheel stay on the ground
Nien sir lyric is a pogo stick
If its bouncing/not staying on the ground there isn't enough rebound damping/it is rebounding too quickly
@@robinrai4973 ua-cam.com/video/GXWNuGIfF0U/v-deo.htmlsi=mvSgklTDCbBielKP
Funny, can’t say I agree with anything you have said. Don’t know if it’s the bike or what, but I just don’t gell with fox. All my forks and shocks are all standard tunes. I’m now on factory 38 and x2 and miss my rockshock setups. Maybe different skill sets suite different levels or even ride preference. Not saying anything is wrong with fox, but I personally just don’t like the feeling.
What is your bike, body weight and settings?
@@OtterMTBtech Spectral Mullet, Fox had 36 performance elite, cant remember the rebound, pretty sure I was either 1 or 2 clicks off the recommended, 2 tokens, but tried different settings generally used 22% sag. Anything under 15-20 I found too stiff. DPX 2 had maximum tokens. had to run the shock at 20% SAG. 25-30 was soft, but went through the mid stroke way to easy, I always assumed a better compression tune was needed. For my slash, I went between a couple of different configurations, some permanent and some trialling when blowing shocks or upgrading from Lyric. I have always used friends who are good at setting up Fox. Im 100kgs. for RockShox, I would typically aim at 18% sag in the front, and depending on the terrain, one click or rebound adjustment, for the rear, it would be 25 to 30%, higher +1 click on HBO. My new Reign is 3 tokens in the 38's and 2 tokens in the X2. Rebound is 1 click slower in the 38 and 1 click higher in X2. highspeed rebound is recommended for both. I know I didn't talk about the compression. I would also like to mention, I ended up getting a Zeb Select and upgraded the damper to 3.0 with buttercups. It was never as good as my Zeb Ultimate in the spectral. After analysis it was the bushes that needed burnishing. Made the fork absolutely buttery like my boxxers. Fox always feel smooth on the initial stroke, but just harsh unless I run 30% in the front and 35% in the rear
Having owned the Fox Rhythm 36, then the Rockshox Yari, and now the Lyrik, I can agree that the Fox feels a little 'dead' and dull in terms of pop etc. Although I haven't found the Lyrik to bounce off things badly. However, I do have the Vorsprung Luftkappe mod on the Lyrik.
That’s the new lyric
@@OtterMTBtech what's the new lyrik? Mine is the 2021 version.
@@Gee-1979 The Lyric current model 2023 and newer is ground up different fork, miles and miles different in feel.
@@OtterMTBtech So I've got the good one, is that what you're saying? They've gone to shit?
Somewhat ,
8:11 i dont know if random youtube comment is a reliable source my guy
Bro everything you read on the internet is true.
Neither ext makes them seem like Walmart shocks with rear shocks
I got that fork now. Any tips for Kenevo setup?
@@OtterMTBtech it’s all personal preference what works for me might not work for you,contingent on varying factors. Your weight and skill level and riding style being some of them. Personally I like slow rebound and ultra slow rebound in the back but lighter weight, more skilled riders tend to like faster rebound and more compression damping but even that isn’t absolute and varies with riders.
Rock shox is like a used condom. Throw it away right away and it would have just been more enjoyable if you never used it to begin with haha.
I love that “oh the rock shox is so amazing at this and that except my hands hurt and im fatigued and it cant hold a line” haha. And the. I rode the fox and it just rode good??
This was a great thorough and well put review though.
As a more aggressive rider i still never liked overly progressive suspension, always seemed like a good way to my your fork feel like shit in the bottom 50% stroke. Im a lighter guy though and usually land smooth and if i case/overshoot/fuck up i just expect to bottom out. At my peak of freeriding i rode most of the double blacks and several “pro lines” (used to be 3 red diamonds ♦️ ♦️♦️) on the north shore, whistler and sunshine coast. I always preferred fox and marz over rock shox. Even when i had the top end boxxer and vivid on my DH bike they were just kinda meh
Fox and Shimano are king in my opinion.
Not sure about the Shimano part. Compatibility problems
Maybe the bushings need to have a burnishing tool sort them out, it looks like some of these forks come out fine direct from factory and other not, its seams to be the case with friends forks also. i have a friend with a new lyric and its super plush, but hearing a lot of other reports about it not being the case. i had new lowers which were burnished for a ext era fork, and suddenly everything was amazing on it, oh and the factory settings suddenly worked perfectly for my weight, where as before i was messing around trying to get it set up properly.
Burnished lowers are the way. I had my 38 burnished and it made a night and day difference.
yeah i now don't know why this is not done at the factory @@jdmbeaner182
Is that going to fix the lack of small bump compliance?
vvc on grip 2 is a gimmic. grip is the way to go... if you really want improvment vorsprung luftkappe neg seal head with fox grip!!!!!
I haven’t tried that thing, looks challenging to install?
X2 solidified Fox's reputation as garbage
My X2 blew up today 😆
@@OtterMTBtech sounds like you hadn't serviced it in almost 3 weeks?!? LOL
what model year? 2024??@@OtterMTBtech
Cost me the price of the freaking shock to rebuild it multiple times every year! Got rid of that thing for a rockshox super deluxe ultimate coil, love it!
X2 blow up, like a bottle of coke with mentos, pufff overpriced fox crap
The kia comment 😂😂😂
Not comparing like for like…
Actually your wrong, everything featured is all mountain suspension
Man, my zeb does everything better than my 38. Ultimate vs. Performance elite.
FOX VS ROCKSHOX
ua-cam.com/video/5mpXoR3qt8I/v-deo.html
The playing field is more level with enduro setup
I had the same experience, fox 38 feels so harsh, at the end of the trail my hands are everytime in pain... with zeb was a complete different story, super plush and comfortable... 😮
Ohlins is in top
Top G?
300 $ for suspension service, are you insane? And 250$ for shock...
I called 5 shops. ALL of them said same price.
@@OtterMTBtech horrible. I got fork service, shock service and full bike dissasembly and bearing change for 300€ here in Europe
Maxxis tires also cost $110 per tire here.
@@OtterMTBtech i paid 70€ for 2 of my new Forecasters. Where do you live?
Usa 🇺🇸
.... fox float X do NOT have HSC, so the only way to avoid end stoke is to put token inside... 600euro socks are u serious ? RS superdeluxe ultimate has hsc and even HBO, in my opinion is much much better, and i own both socks, no way fox is crap
What bike and shock size
Dude, you really dislike rockshox 🤣
But yes, I had this discussion today actually (the stalking is real) about lyric 2.1 and Zeb 3. I've owned both, and the lyric was fucking unbelievable. Now, to be fair, I haven't serviced the ZEB yet, and apparently all rockshox forks work like shit because they come without the proper amount of oil from factory. -1 for rockshox.
That being said, I still prefer rockshox to fox. IMO, they look better and look more expensive, they're easier to setup and in terms of price... The cheapest I can find the Zeb Ultimate Charger 3 at the moment is 760€.. 760€!! The 38 Factory? 1250€. That's a 500€ difference. Enough to get a Super Deluxe Ultimate Coil. Again, it's just my preference.
Just facts, that most people would delete from videos. I keep hearing the issue is manufacturing and assembling. New lyric felt like something really wrong. New Zeb was kinda the same issues.
Bro, from time to time, I am watching your videos, and you still don't know how to properly fine-tune RockShox using volume reducers and dropping pressure, which is necessary. It works even for Fox, but Fox is more damped out of the box and easier to set up, regardless of all those clicks.
I did a 9 min setup video for the NEW '23 Lyric. It is a Far cry from anything before. What Lyric are you talking about? Spent 1 week playing with settings. Low pressure and compression cranked does not work with a short travel fork. There is not enough travel tried it.
i think that too, i hade the possibility tri try both a fox 36 factory and a lyrik select plus, and i have the new lyrik ultimate on my personal bike. i think that you can compare a 36 factory to a lyrik ultimate, not a select plus... but at the end of the day rockshox is better
👇 'promo sm'
Everybody says something else. It is so annoying. Everything super plush and super good to harsh and overdamped and progressive and binding and undersized bushings...
No one is arguing about Fox. It’s just people defending Rockshox