To make this comparison 100%, the fork needs to be mounted on the same bike unless the geometry is the same. Linkage design and geometry makes the fork feel different on different bikes. Please make a comparison when all of these forks are on the same bike 😉
Spot on review. I have both the Lyrik ultimate 21 + 23. Rode with my old Lyrik 21 170mm new 23 160mm on my bike and prefer the old. More forgiving and I charge harder when comfortable.
I’ve just recently fitted 2023 Zeb Ultimate on my bike . And they also feel harsh on the hands at the recommended pressure for my weight . Dropping 10 psi makes the fork much better without any noticeable down sides , i read on lots forums guys doing the same thing, With lower pressure you can use lsc and hsc i bit more instead of being fully open .
Love the honesty guy, awesome comparison really eye opening !! I have a 2022 zeb r and was going to upgrade the damper to either the 2.1 charger or latest charger 3 think I may go looking for the 2.1 now as I prefer the comfier feeling not fast enough to make the most of the 3.0 after watching your vid
Always appreciate the extra effort and honesty you put into your videos. This one was very interesting. I have Zeb ultimate and not sure if it needs service or all the press new ones so quiet that it planted the seed in my head.
Cheers Richard, Is yours noisy? The current ones are a bit squelchy but not as much as Fox. The Charger 3 are silent though and Ive not heard of issues with the Zeb. Just Pike and Lyrik.
I love the 2022 or 21 lyrik ultimate 160mm u def have to run lil more psi and token or 2 but then u get small bump sensitive with more hold up I only use last inch of my travel when going big or over jumping and it's good to have that hold up at the end saves ur day sometimes and u can up ur travel if u want to 170mm new one dosen't even come it 170mm
Cheers for this review. I've run a 2018 36 performance elite which i upgraded w. grip 2 damper, and a vorsprung luftkappe. recently decided to grab a 2021 lyrik ultimate second hand. have a feeling thats the better fork for me, but will see.
I have the new lyrik ultimate 2023 on my stumpjumper comp carbon 2019(not much stock left on it). When you run fast, smooth trials or really sending it it’s amazing but over stuff like brake bumps its so harsh you go like WTF was that. A but disappointed but will play around more with PSI and lowering it as much as i can.
Have you had a chance to dial it in more? What're your thoughts now? Considering upgrading on my Stumpy Alloy and I'm really having a hard time making a decision
Thanks for the honest review. I've always loved the 2020 Lyrik with the B1 airspring. I get a custom firm tune on the compression side and it's fantastic.
Yeah, increasing the compression is definitely the way to go with a '20 Lyrik and I prefer the position of the balancing port on the air spring on that version to later ones too. I think they've just been listening to racers rather than normal riders too much on the latest generation. Either that or riding smoother flow trails not a bunch of random jank.
As a 220lbs+ rider, the Manitou Mezzer Pro is the first fork that provided me "true" mid stroke support. It's been a real eye-opening experience, a truly incredible and underrated fork and a must for us heavier clydesdale riders. * note it can be overdamped for riders under 200lbs, BUT you can easier modify the shim stack to your liking.
Zero, the only issues I had was upon re-assembly (travel change) everything torqued to spec and it was leaking from the bottom, 1/4 turn tighter fixed it. I think most of the issues came from early production, it's laughable how good this fork feels. Like I mention in my comment above my immediate reaction "ohhhhhh THIS is what mid stroke support feels like" it was that eye opening, I literally started laughing as I was bombing downhill lol. The fork is super sensitive to adjustments but once you understand it's easy to dial in@@orla222
Still not happy with my 2023 zeb ultimate due a harsh ride, I dropped the lower and removing the bucket of grease from air shaoft lol . Re-greased it slightly and replaced the oil . The forks are now night day diffidence, very plush of with recommend pressures. The issue was the forks were not equalising with the lowers as the air dimple was blocked with grease. I have read lots of guys having this issue. I bet you lyric had this issue , you should clean the lowees out and review them again
Really? Night and day? I am thinking of stepping up to the lyrik ultimate from my RL 35 Gold. I have been doing as much searching as possible and I've seen what you're talking about. I'm just nervous about spending a lot of money and maybe it won't be that much of an improvement in the area of riding I'm most looking for an improvement-reducing the chatter small rocks create.
@@Channel-io1di go for it but from a fork tuner as they strip them down and servicer them before sending them out. Only an extra £50 over standaed retail price in the UK
Really appreciate the honesty on the new fork. Sounds like RS has some creases to iron out. Hopefully not in the way of making people fork out more money for upgrade parts in 6 months time.
I’m still waiting to hear back about potential causes (RS stripped the Pike down but couldn’t make it behave any better so far) and I’ll post again once I’ve got an update. Hopefully it’s an easy fix as the rest of the performance is awesome.
Awesome insite in to the performance of these forks. Its Interesting things have flipped. Back in the day I found the fox 36 to be amazing in the carpark but then having no mid support on the trail, and I was constantly faffing with setup. But when I got some 2017 pikes I was amazed I only had to dial in the sag and rebound and they felt great. But recently with the pikes getting on abit, I've been toying with the idea of uping to 36 chassis like a Zeb or lyric. To help with better stiffness and more mid support with out loosing the small bump But never understood the difference between the Zeb and lyric and also best bang for the buck.
Zeb is 38mm, Lyrik is 35mm. Also latest Zeb seems to have escaped the stutter issues of the latest Lyrik so if you’re looking for maximum stiffness and smoothness I’d go Zeb.
Z1 bomber at £600 or a factory 36 at around £1000 ish. Is there £400 more performance for some who (I being honest) doesn’t know how to set up a fork more than just the basics
Thanks Jim, this is very much the condensed version after a couple of months comparative work. If you want more detail check out my reviews on Bikeperfect.com. I’ve not written Lyrik yet though 😬
The way I see it Fox can (or could, only had the rc2) be set up to be anywhere between very comfy, and very controlled. The previous RS forks were on the comfy side but needed tuning or a bunch of spacers in order to cater to the more agressive rider, with the new ones it seems to be the other way round. I’ve always been a Fox guy but recently switched to RS as I find Fox to be a nightmare in terms of reliability. New RS stuff should fit my riding (steep tech) pretty well.
Dear Guy, thank you very much for your honest review. Your findings on new Lyrik are pretty much in line with review of Mr.Evans (your colleague & competitor from b********). I will most likely go after Fox 36 Performance Elite at some point. I am looking forward to your final thoughts on Schwalbe Wicked Will either here or at bikeperfect (thank you for sharing your initial impression of the tire on instagram : ) Cheers from Ukraine. God Save The Queen.
Yes, Alex has had his revalved now with lighter rebound tuning which apparently has helped a bit. If he's having to run lighter rebound though that's a really big deal as he's an animal, almost certainly the fastest journo out there!
Interested to hear if you've ridden the all new 2022 Fox *34* as well guy. I've had mine since crhistmas and been blown away - specced it on a bike that usually comes with 36's (stage evo) and glad I did. It feels as stiff as the previous gen 36's I had, but lighter than the Pike and previous gen 34's I also had... really is best of both worlds. Bit cheaper than the 36 too. I reckon theres a lot of people running 36's who would be better served by the often forgetten, unfahsionably skinny 34 and the stiffness of the new version is a massive step up. Really impressed with it. Very little review/talk/discussion about it due to aforementioned un-trendiness of 'down sizing' on the fork!
Just on it now on the Whyte T-140 and extremely impressed. I'll get a video up about it ASAP but I know what you mean about fashion all being about 38mm when the lightweight 34/35mm forks are awesome now (they haven't always been tho 🤣)
@@GuyKesTV thats what I was getting at - feels like a big change from the old 34 chassis to the new '22 34. Loving mine so interested to see what you think.
Thanks for the info. It would be better if you used the same bike for all the forks. Tire size changes will have a huge impact and makes the results less valuable.
I swapped the wheels round for the last few runs just to double check and I'd already ridden the new Lyrik and Fox in the Pace and with different bars/grips etc beforehand too just to check the issues were definitely fork based not anything else. This was a summary shoot of several weeks of back to back work so I'm confident the results are worthwhile.
On my 2018 Pike i need 10-15% less pressure than suggested + 1-2 tokens, compressions turned almost fully down + fairly quick rebound to really get a nice small bump sensitivity & still good enough support Buuuut, i think the HA have more to do with it though, i have a Spectral (27.5/160mm) which is my "1 bike to rule them all", it is amazing down the cliff but while doing more XC style riding it is not as good (the fork), especially small bump, so: aggressive down & hitting a rock = stansion stroke is pretty much linear to the force, hitting a rock on flats & the forces is not linear to the stroke anymore. So how much does HA in comparison to the riding environment effect the smoothness of a fork?
Hi Guy, Just bought a Specialized Turbo Levo Comp alloy and was thinking to upgrade the stock Fox 36 Rhythm. Do you think it's a better idea to just sell the Fox 36 Rhythm and buy a Zeb Ultimate 2023 or just upgrade the Fox 36 Damper to Grip 2?
Thing I don't like about suspension that relies on the damper for mid-stroke support is how fast the suspension starts to feel sticky. Just a few rides in and it'll already feel like it has a lot of break-away stiction. What's your experience with this lyrik in terms of stiction / break-away force so far?
Breakaway force is really low mid stroke and it’s really fluid once moving. I’m passing it onto another rider to long term for a few months and keep checking in on it to see how it develops.
I bought 2023 140mm Pikes to replace the 2018 Fox factory's on my hartail. They work really well, but do feel a bit harsh even with the high/low speed turned right down. They do have great build quality though, so wonder if they need more riding time. I was going to get some Lyriks to replace the 150mm Pikes on my Jeht, but am looking at reviews and waiting. Either it's the damping setup or tight clearances causing the harshness.
Loam, bike parky stuff Lyrik feels amaaaaaaazing, just couldn't get it playing nice on roots and rocks whatever I did though. Still it's an ongoing investigation, maybe I just got unlucky twice but I've spoken to several other testers and bike brand managers having hand pump issues too. Just nobody else has stuck their head above the trench on it yet 🙄
@@danmccabe2004 If you can get a Grip2 damper in there go for it. I'm not sure if internal dimensions are exactly the same though. I'll check tomorrow. Otherwise just go Performance Elite, exactly same performance as Factory just without the gold tax!
Interesting, got pike 2021, looking at lyrix 2023 for more comfort. Thought the whole idea of buttercups was to reduce input at the bars? This is putting me off. Did you run recommended pressures? Thinking dropping some PSi would increase comfort and you look like a light rider. Appreciate your feedback matey?
My advice would be wait for a bit. Myself and a couple of other people (shout out to Will at Flow in Aus and Alex Evans at MBUK/BIkeradar who's actually had the damping revalved on his) have caused enough of a stink that SRAM are taking it very seriously. Not that they've told me that direct but I have my sources 🤣. Currently a more comfy option is the polar opposite of what it is. Hopefully they'll identify the issue,( I'm pretty sure it's related to a back flow valve in the rebound) and the jarring will be solved as it's definitely an awesome fork in other ways. Right now though, previous Lyrik is the comfy option.
@@GuyKesTV thanks For the response. Gutted been holding out for years for a new chassis. I’ll have a chat with tf tuned as well to see what is their verdict is. Edging towards fox36 over an older lyrix.
You can also try j-tech as well another tuneing company they have said the new shocks have have problems with them that is why they are not selling them for now
If you can get a Grip2 damper in there go for it. I'm not sure if internal dimensions are exactly the same though. I'll check tomorrow. Otherwise just go Performance Elite, exactly same performance as Factory just without the gold tax!
@@GuyKesTV I have researched it and the grip 2 can go in all the fox 36 fork I believe 2015 onwards. Same as the bomber z1 which is identical to the 36 rhythm. I have seen the latest grip 2 damper for 350 which seems a bargain . I would be missing out on the bleeders, I am not climbing mountains thousands of feet up
i've made it to this video because i was like. Why do i feel so much impact in my hands on this lyrik. It feels fantastic through a rock garden but that instant impact is way too harsh and makes me feel like i'm losing traction
@@GuyKesTV even if it's brand new? This thing is right out of the box. But yeah everything you said in your video here applies to me. Though i must have had it locked out on the initial harsh impacts.
TBF they might be yet. The US media and some Canadian bike brand managers seem to be getting on really well with them and that includes folk I really trust. These Lyriks are going back to SRAM for a check over and I’ll be getting some fresh Pikes soon too
I'd be curious on the 2021 Lyrik at 75psi, what your other settings were. By adding more compression damping, I think you could get a similar sporty and supportive feel as the new Lyrik while maybe having better small bump compliance. It seems the new 2023 Lyriks/Pikes are overdamped even at minimum settings which is really disappointing to have all those adjustments and not be able to get a plush ride if you want. The 21 atleast gives you a much better window of tuning to get a plush tune or sporty supportive tune depending on your preference and terrain. Seems like the new Rockshox forks are one-dimensional. Disappointing
There’s still no straight answer from Rock Shox but talking to suspension servicing guys I know the bushing tolerances on the new forks can be all over the place. I think it’s the stiction from that which causes the spiking issues not the damping. That would be supported by early forks from this gen now starting to feel really good (but also knocking noticeably now in some cases). But yes, more compression will give you a sportier feel on the 21 Lyrik
@GuyKesTV Wow I didn't hear about the knocking issue yet. I think I'm gonna go with a 21/22 Pike or Lyrik until these issues are worked out on the new generation. I currently have a 2022 Fox 34 PE which is great but the chassis is too flexy for me at 140 travel. Was going to get a Fox 36 but the weight is a big jump from the 34. The Pike or Lyrik would be the sweet spot for weight vs stiffness balance and I think the Charger 2.1 would be good enough. Also there's an easy mod you can do to improve the C1 air-spring.
@@frankschock9981 the knock issue is only just surfacing on a couple of forks I know of, so not surprised you’ve not heard of it. You can get a previous Gen Lyrik for a bargain price too
@GuyKesTV Absolutely. I'm trying to decide between a Pike or Lyrik. My bike is built around a 140 or 150 fork. I was leaning towards the Pike but I found a lightly used warranty replacement 21 Lyrik Ultimate in near mint condition for $400 shipped. Also looking at a sweet silver near mint 22 Pike Ultimate for $500. Also a rebuilt 2020 Pike Ultimate in decent condition for $300. I'm torn 😆. Maybe I'll get all 3 for $1200 and keep the one I like the most?
That’s the joy of GoPro. Flattens everything. We tested these forks on a bunch of gnarlier stuff over the preceding months and while I’m not saying I’m a sender these days (too old and broken) the other guys I had on the forks properly throw down. But yeah, you’re right, I could have chosen something more appropriate to shoot on. shooting on different bikes/wheels isn’t the most scientific way to present it either, but trust me I went deep on this one. Not least because pointing out flaws in RS means I get some serious heat off them. Big changes with RS this week anyway, but I’ve only got Pike to play with ATMO and need to Grip X up my 34 before I can do a proper comparison video.
This is a summary of around two months on the new Lyrik and months more on the new 36 in different formats and I’ve ridden the old Lyrik in multiple set ups since it was introduced. All backed up with over twenty years testing forks and bikes for the leading UK magazines and websites. I ran all three forks in the same travel/same wheel in my Pace previously too (see other videos for details) So yeah, not the ideal illustration but I’ll stand by the conclusions any day. Plus RockShox have taken my feedback seriously enough that the Lyrik is now back in Colorado for a full work through to see what the issue is.
To make this comparison 100%, the fork needs to be mounted on the same bike unless the geometry is the same. Linkage design and geometry makes the fork feel different on different bikes. Please make a comparison when all of these forks are on the same bike 😉
Also the rear shock settings have a huge effect on how the front suspension feels.
Also hes comparing forks with different travel lengths..
Spot on review. I have both the Lyrik ultimate 21 + 23. Rode with my old Lyrik 21 170mm new 23 160mm on my bike and prefer the old. More forgiving and I charge harder when comfortable.
I’ve just recently fitted 2023 Zeb Ultimate on my bike . And they also feel harsh on the hands at the recommended pressure for my weight . Dropping 10 psi makes the fork much better without any noticeable down sides , i read on lots forums guys doing the same thing, With lower pressure you can use lsc and hsc i bit more instead of being fully open .
Love the honesty guy, awesome comparison really eye opening !! I have a 2022 zeb r and was going to upgrade the damper to either the 2.1 charger or latest charger 3 think I may go looking for the 2.1 now as I prefer the comfier feeling not fast enough to make the most of the 3.0 after watching your vid
Always appreciate the extra effort and honesty you put into your videos. This one was very interesting. I have Zeb ultimate and not sure if it needs service or all the press new ones so quiet that it planted the seed in my head.
Cheers Richard, Is yours noisy? The current ones are a bit squelchy but not as much as Fox. The Charger 3 are silent though and Ive not heard of issues with the Zeb. Just Pike and Lyrik.
I love the 2022 or 21 lyrik ultimate 160mm u def have to run lil more psi and token or 2 but then u get small bump sensitive with more hold up I only use last inch of my travel when going big or over jumping and it's good to have that hold up at the end saves ur day sometimes and u can up ur travel if u want to 170mm new one dosen't even come it 170mm
Cheers for this review. I've run a 2018 36 performance elite which i upgraded w. grip 2 damper, and a vorsprung luftkappe. recently decided to grab a 2021 lyrik ultimate second hand. have a feeling thats the better fork for me, but will see.
I have the new lyrik ultimate 2023 on my stumpjumper comp carbon 2019(not much stock left on it).
When you run fast, smooth trials or really sending it it’s amazing but over stuff like brake bumps its so harsh you go like WTF was that. A but disappointed but will play around more with PSI and lowering it as much as i can.
Have you had a chance to dial it in more? What're your thoughts now? Considering upgrading on my Stumpy Alloy and I'm really having a hard time making a decision
Thanks for the honest review. I've always loved the 2020 Lyrik with the B1 airspring. I get a custom firm tune on the compression side and it's fantastic.
Yeah, increasing the compression is definitely the way to go with a '20 Lyrik and I prefer the position of the balancing port on the air spring on that version to later ones too. I think they've just been listening to racers rather than normal riders too much on the latest generation. Either that or riding smoother flow trails not a bunch of random jank.
Exactly what I needed after not getting a good setup with a fox36 factory ;(
As a 220lbs+ rider, the Manitou Mezzer Pro is the first fork that provided me "true" mid stroke support. It's been a real eye-opening experience, a truly incredible and underrated fork and a must for us heavier clydesdale riders. * note it can be overdamped for riders under 200lbs, BUT you can easier modify the shim stack to your liking.
Did you have issues on your mezzer? I have Heard that their customers support sucks
Zero, the only issues I had was upon re-assembly (travel change) everything torqued to spec and it was leaking from the bottom, 1/4 turn tighter fixed it. I think most of the issues came from early production, it's laughable how good this fork feels. Like I mention in my comment above my immediate reaction "ohhhhhh THIS is what mid stroke support feels like" it was that eye opening, I literally started laughing as I was bombing downhill lol. The fork is super sensitive to adjustments but once you understand it's easy to dial in@@orla222
Still not happy with my 2023 zeb ultimate due a harsh ride, I dropped the lower and removing the bucket of grease from air shaoft lol . Re-greased it slightly and replaced the oil . The forks are now night day diffidence, very plush of with recommend pressures. The issue was the forks were not equalising with the lowers as the air dimple was blocked with grease. I have read lots of guys having this issue. I bet you lyric had this issue , you should clean the lowees out and review them again
Really? Night and day? I am thinking of stepping up to the lyrik ultimate from my RL 35 Gold. I have been doing as much searching as possible and I've seen what you're talking about. I'm just nervous about spending a lot of money and maybe it won't be that much of an improvement in the area of riding I'm most looking for an improvement-reducing the chatter small rocks create.
@@Channel-io1di go for it but from a fork tuner as they strip them down and servicer them before sending them out.
Only an extra £50 over standaed retail price in the UK
any update on the harshness from the new lyrik and pike ?? thanks appreciate it !
Really appreciate the honesty on the new fork. Sounds like RS has some creases to iron out. Hopefully not in the way of making people fork out more money for upgrade parts in 6 months time.
I’m still waiting to hear back about potential causes (RS stripped the Pike down but couldn’t make it behave any better so far) and I’ll post again once I’ve got an update. Hopefully it’s an easy fix as the rest of the performance is awesome.
^^ "fork" out money!! 😃😆
Be curuous, since so supportive, did you try lowering the psi bit more if added a more compliance?
Only Guy can mention pregnant sheep in a fork review! Hilarious.
I think that was my favourite bit and I totally got what he was saying 🤣
Awesome insite in to the performance of these forks. Its Interesting things have flipped. Back in the day I found the fox 36 to be amazing in the carpark but then having no mid support on the trail, and I was constantly faffing with setup. But when I got some 2017 pikes I was amazed I only had to dial in the sag and rebound and they felt great.
But recently with the pikes getting on abit, I've been toying with the idea of uping to 36 chassis like a Zeb or lyric. To help with better stiffness and more mid support with out loosing the small bump But never understood the difference between the Zeb and lyric and also best bang for the buck.
Zeb is 38mm, Lyrik is 35mm. Also latest Zeb seems to have escaped the stutter issues of the latest Lyrik so if you’re looking for maximum stiffness and smoothness I’d go Zeb.
Thanks for the info. I think that's the way id go.
They sound like the perfect fork for mat plenty of knobs to fiddle with and work best when being abused
Thank god he didn't go to public school....
@@GuyKesTV 🤣 true he could have been a politician by now
Z1 bomber at £600 or a factory 36 at around £1000 ish. Is there £400 more performance for some who (I being honest) doesn’t know how to set up a fork more than just the basics
Excellent review!
Thanks Jim, this is very much the condensed version after a couple of months comparative work. If you want more detail check out my reviews on Bikeperfect.com. I’ve not written Lyrik yet though 😬
I have really bad experience with fox forks, maybe I’m just unlucky but the last two fox forks iv had to have repairs under warranty
The way I see it Fox can (or could, only had the rc2) be set up to be anywhere between very comfy, and very controlled. The previous RS forks were on the comfy side but needed tuning or a bunch of spacers in order to cater to the more agressive rider, with the new ones it seems to be the other way round. I’ve always been a Fox guy but recently switched to RS as I find Fox to be a nightmare in terms of reliability. New RS stuff should fit my riding (steep tech) pretty well.
Yes that pretty much nails it exactly
Are you referring to the Charger 2 needing alot of tuning or Charger 2.1?
Dear Guy,
thank you very much for your honest review. Your findings on new Lyrik are pretty much in line with review of Mr.Evans (your colleague & competitor from b********).
I will most likely go after Fox 36 Performance Elite at some point.
I am looking forward to your final thoughts on Schwalbe Wicked Will either here or at bikeperfect (thank you for sharing your initial impression of the tire on instagram : )
Cheers from Ukraine. God Save The Queen.
Yes, Alex has had his revalved now with lighter rebound tuning which apparently has helped a bit. If he's having to run lighter rebound though that's a really big deal as he's an animal, almost certainly the fastest journo out there!
Interested to hear if you've ridden the all new 2022 Fox *34* as well guy. I've had mine since crhistmas and been blown away - specced it on a bike that usually comes with 36's (stage evo) and glad I did. It feels as stiff as the previous gen 36's I had, but lighter than the Pike and previous gen 34's I also had... really is best of both worlds. Bit cheaper than the 36 too. I reckon theres a lot of people running 36's who would be better served by the often forgetten, unfahsionably skinny 34 and the stiffness of the new version is a massive step up. Really impressed with it. Very little review/talk/discussion about it due to aforementioned un-trendiness of 'down sizing' on the fork!
Just on it now on the Whyte T-140 and extremely impressed. I'll get a video up about it ASAP but I know what you mean about fashion all being about 38mm when the lightweight 34/35mm forks are awesome now (they haven't always been tho 🤣)
@@GuyKesTV thats what I was getting at - feels like a big change from the old 34 chassis to the new '22 34. Loving mine so interested to see what you think.
@@sholehan I think the 34/36 Rythm still uses the older chassis right?
What travel are you using? Mine is 140mm and definitely feels flexier than my previous Pike. Gonna drop to 130mm to see how much better it is.
Thanks for the info. It would be better if you used the same bike for all the forks. Tire size changes will have a huge impact and makes the results less valuable.
I swapped the wheels round for the last few runs just to double check and I'd already ridden the new Lyrik and Fox in the Pace and with different bars/grips etc beforehand too just to check the issues were definitely fork based not anything else. This was a summary shoot of several weeks of back to back work so I'm confident the results are worthwhile.
@@GuyKesTV thanks for the clarification!
1200 quid, lol my old 2019 Rockshox 180 mm travel in fantastic condition.
Can you upgrade the 2021 Lyrik to the butter cups and RC3?
No it can´t
On my 2018 Pike i need 10-15% less pressure than suggested + 1-2 tokens, compressions turned almost fully down + fairly quick rebound to really get a nice small bump sensitivity & still good enough support
Buuuut, i think the HA have more to do with it though, i have a Spectral (27.5/160mm) which is my "1 bike to rule them all", it is amazing down the cliff but while doing more XC style riding it is not as good (the fork), especially small bump, so: aggressive down & hitting a rock = stansion stroke is pretty much linear to the force, hitting a rock on flats & the forces is not linear to the stroke anymore. So how much does HA in comparison to the riding environment effect the smoothness of a fork?
Hi Guy,
Just bought a Specialized Turbo Levo Comp alloy and was thinking to upgrade the stock Fox 36 Rhythm. Do you think it's a better idea to just sell the Fox 36 Rhythm and buy a Zeb Ultimate 2023 or just upgrade the Fox 36 Damper to Grip 2?
fox 36 feel great on big hits but terrible over the small stuff that buzzes thru into the handlebars.
looks like i will be sticking to my 2.1 damper
I definitely would for the moment 👍
Thing I don't like about suspension that relies on the damper for mid-stroke support is how fast the suspension starts to feel sticky. Just a few rides in and it'll already feel like it has a lot of break-away stiction. What's your experience with this lyrik in terms of stiction / break-away force so far?
Breakaway force is really low mid stroke and it’s really fluid once moving. I’m passing it onto another rider to long term for a few months and keep checking in on it to see how it develops.
Would be cool if you had a friend tape up both forks so you didn't know which one you're riding.
That would be really interesting for sure. I’ll maybe try that with 34 v Z2 v new Pike 👍🏻
I just wonder where does the lyrik ultimate 2020 stands, I read that seb from bikeradar love the 2020 version than the 2021.
I prefer 2020 over 21 and both over 22/23 for sure. '20 Lyrik was a superb fork
got a 21 lyrik select. so i might keep it lol
Another great review
Thanks George
I bought 2023 140mm Pikes to replace the 2018 Fox factory's on my hartail. They work really well, but do feel a bit harsh even with the high/low speed turned right down. They do have great build quality though, so wonder if they need more riding time. I was going to get some Lyriks to replace the 150mm Pikes on my Jeht, but am looking at reviews and waiting. Either it's the damping setup or tight clearances causing the harshness.
SRAM are taking the harshness I'm talking about seriously so hopefully issues will be sorted soon, I'd hold fire on the Lyrik until they are though.
@@GuyKesTV Hopefully it's an easy fix.
Super flow on those last two runs 😬
Loam, bike parky stuff Lyrik feels amaaaaaaazing, just couldn't get it playing nice on roots and rocks whatever I did though. Still it's an ongoing investigation, maybe I just got unlucky twice but I've spoken to several other testers and bike brand managers having hand pump issues too. Just nobody else has stuck their head above the trench on it yet 🙄
@@GuyKesTVgym subs not included 😂
@@danmccabe2004 If you can get a Grip2 damper in there go for it. I'm not sure if internal dimensions are exactly the same though. I'll check tomorrow. Otherwise just go Performance Elite, exactly same performance as Factory just without the gold tax!
Good work dude ;-)
Might be screwed for socks and cool merch for a while though……
What about the Helm?
Interesting, got pike 2021, looking at lyrix 2023 for more comfort. Thought the whole idea of buttercups was to reduce input at the bars? This is putting me off. Did you run recommended pressures? Thinking dropping some PSi would increase comfort and you look like a light rider. Appreciate your feedback matey?
My advice would be wait for a bit. Myself and a couple of other people (shout out to Will at Flow in Aus and Alex Evans at MBUK/BIkeradar who's actually had the damping revalved on his) have caused enough of a stink that SRAM are taking it very seriously. Not that they've told me that direct but I have my sources 🤣. Currently a more comfy option is the polar opposite of what it is. Hopefully they'll identify the issue,( I'm pretty sure it's related to a back flow valve in the rebound) and the jarring will be solved as it's definitely an awesome fork in other ways. Right now though, previous Lyrik is the comfy option.
@@GuyKesTV thanks For the response. Gutted been holding out for years for a new chassis. I’ll have a chat with tf tuned as well to see what is their verdict is. Edging towards fox36 over an older lyrix.
You can also try j-tech as well another tuneing company they have said the new shocks have have problems with them that is why they are not selling them for now
Hi Guy, is there any news on this issue? I'm quite interested to hear the view of RS and potential causes/solutions. Cheers!
I have the fox 36 rhythm is it worth upgrading the damper to the grip 2?
If you can get a Grip2 damper in there go for it. I'm not sure if internal dimensions are exactly the same though. I'll check tomorrow. Otherwise just go Performance Elite, exactly same performance as Factory just without the gold tax!
@@GuyKesTV I have researched it and the grip 2 can go in all the fox 36 fork I believe 2015 onwards. Same as the bomber z1 which is identical to the 36 rhythm. I have seen the latest grip 2 damper for 350 which seems a bargain . I would be missing out on the bleeders, I am not climbing mountains thousands of feet up
The rhythm can not be upgraded from memory, worth checking but don’t think so.
i've made it to this video because i was like. Why do i feel so much impact in my hands on this lyrik. It feels fantastic through a rock garden but that instant impact is way too harsh and makes me feel like i'm losing traction
@@scottwickberg413 get it to a service centre and get the bushings sorted out. It should feel mint after that
@@GuyKesTV even if it's brand new? This thing is right out of the box.
But yeah everything you said in your video here applies to me. Though i must have had it locked out on the initial harsh impacts.
@@scottwickberg413 unfortunately yes if it’s a Charger 3 model 😬
Really shows that marketing is really manipulative. Thought these were gonna be the best forks ever.
TBF they might be yet. The US media and some Canadian bike brand managers seem to be getting on really well with them and that includes folk I really trust. These Lyriks are going back to SRAM for a check over and I’ll be getting some fresh Pikes soon too
What s the stiffer Fork?
They’re all very similar but I’d say the 36 feels the stiffest with latest Lyrik a very close second
I'd be curious on the 2021 Lyrik at 75psi, what your other settings were. By adding more compression damping, I think you could get a similar sporty and supportive feel as the new Lyrik while maybe having better small bump compliance. It seems the new 2023 Lyriks/Pikes are overdamped even at minimum settings which is really disappointing to have all those adjustments and not be able to get a plush ride if you want. The 21 atleast gives you a much better window of tuning to get a plush tune or sporty supportive tune depending on your preference and terrain. Seems like the new Rockshox forks are one-dimensional. Disappointing
There’s still no straight answer from Rock Shox but talking to suspension servicing guys I know the bushing tolerances on the new forks can be all over the place. I think it’s the stiction from that which causes the spiking issues not the damping. That would be supported by early forks from this gen now starting to feel really good (but also knocking noticeably now in some cases). But yes, more compression will give you a sportier feel on the 21 Lyrik
@GuyKesTV Wow I didn't hear about the knocking issue yet. I think I'm gonna go with a 21/22 Pike or Lyrik until these issues are worked out on the new generation. I currently have a 2022 Fox 34 PE which is great but the chassis is too flexy for me at 140 travel. Was going to get a Fox 36 but the weight is a big jump from the 34. The Pike or Lyrik would be the sweet spot for weight vs stiffness balance and I think the Charger 2.1 would be good enough. Also there's an easy mod you can do to improve the C1 air-spring.
@@frankschock9981 the knock issue is only just surfacing on a couple of forks I know of, so not surprised you’ve not heard of it. You can get a previous Gen Lyrik for a bargain price too
@GuyKesTV Absolutely. I'm trying to decide between a Pike or Lyrik. My bike is built around a 140 or 150 fork. I was leaning towards the Pike but I found a lightly used warranty replacement 21 Lyrik Ultimate in near mint condition for $400 shipped. Also looking at a sweet silver near mint 22 Pike Ultimate for $500. Also a rebuilt 2020 Pike Ultimate in decent condition for $300. I'm torn 😆. Maybe I'll get all 3 for $1200 and keep the one I like the most?
@@frankschock9981 if you really want max stiffness gains go Lyrik
So you rate the Rhythm even with the old lowers?
ps. I would love to see I timed comparison to see which is fastest.
Yeah that basic Grip damper is really good.
have you tried the mezzer pro yet?
No, hopefully getting on it soon. I’ve heard good things
@@GuyKesTV me too,not impressed with stock fox 36's and was told the mezzer is a better fork stock.
Trail looks almost flat and your testing big forks, wtf? How about smashing down a grade 4-5 trails which the forks are surely built for.
That’s the joy of GoPro. Flattens everything. We tested these forks on a bunch of gnarlier stuff over the preceding months and while I’m not saying I’m a sender these days (too old and broken) the other guys I had on the forks properly throw down. But yeah, you’re right, I could have chosen something more appropriate to shoot on. shooting on different bikes/wheels isn’t the most scientific way to present it either, but trust me I went deep on this one. Not least because pointing out flaws in RS means I get some serious heat off them. Big changes with RS this week anyway, but I’ve only got Pike to play with ATMO and need to Grip X up my 34 before I can do a proper comparison video.
What a waste of time.
terrible comparison. Different bikes, different fork lengths, No true experimental control.
This is a summary of around two months on the new Lyrik and months more on the new 36 in different formats and I’ve ridden the old Lyrik in multiple set ups since it was introduced. All backed up with over twenty years testing forks and bikes for the leading UK magazines and websites. I ran all three forks in the same travel/same wheel in my Pace previously too (see other videos for details) So yeah, not the ideal illustration but I’ll stand by the conclusions any day. Plus RockShox have taken my feedback seriously enough that the Lyrik is now back in Colorado for a full work through to see what the issue is.