I remember when Mental Misstep was released a lot of people were playing it in their decks. I was running a green ramp deck at the time and I played a turn one Birds of Paradise. My opponent immediately used Mental Misstep on it. I however also ran a card called Summoning Trap in my deck. Summoning Trap was cast at instant speed for 4 of any color + 2 Green mana and when cast allowed you to look through the top 7 cards of your library and put a creature from among those cards onto the battlefield and then shuffle the library. But, if any creature spell that I cast was countered on that turn I could then cast Summoning Trap for 0 mana. I had 2 of them in my hand and used both of them which allowed me to get a Primeval Titan and an Emrakul, The Aeons Torn onto the field turn 1. My opponent then forfeit the round and pulled his Mental Missteps out of his deck for some other sideboard cards. I still get a chuckle out of that one.
I mean i can understand every single card game in the market(hs, lor etc but i mostly play weiss and yugioh irl because the demographic here force me to do it) but i somehow still need an emulators to determine how an effect resolve in yugioh negate faceup etc. Show how stupidly annoying yugioh rulings are, but it is so satisfying when i pull it off, like i summoned Lonefire Blossom(im playing rikka irl) through living fossil and activate its effect, then my opponent poker facing my play unknowingly that's a legal move lmao.
To be fair a lot of Yu-Gi-Oh cards I've seen look like a novel with all the words. Although MTG is getting there. we're just not used to a lot of text.
Thing is that a good amount of the time, making your opponent fight over a Misstep is actually great for you. In a one-for-one battle, you win by being the proactive player.
Thing is that a lot of these game-actions are used in multiple games and kinda demand a proper one word term to describe them. Tutoring and milling are useful verbs that replace longer sentences.
I heard tutor was a reference to a magic card but I don't know what it actually does. But in the past when I heard people mention 'tutor', they were talking about special summoning from deck, not searching? What does it actually do?
@@IamGrimalkin In the very first set of Magic, they printed a black card called Demonic Tutor that looked through your library for any card and put it in your hand. Not having been around back then, I can't tell you if that immediately became the name for deck searching effects or if it took until the printing of things like Enlightened Tutor, Mystic Tutor, and Vampiric Tutor (respectively, searched enchantments and artifacts, instants and sorceries, and anything but cost 2 life) to solidify that name for the effect. Importantly those 3 instead of putting it in your hand, put it to the top of your library, thus any deck searching effect became known as a tutor, no matter where the card ended up. Even cards like Buried Alive that send it to your graveyard, are known as tutors (although the actual action of doing it is sometimes called entombing, named after the 1 mana spell that does it).
2:40 Despite declaring it a staple, they UNDERRATE this card. I started playing Magic in '97. Survival of the Fittest released in '98 with Exodus. It was the primary card in the '98 World Championship deck. Certainly the creatures of the time were trash tier compared to modern Magic--Serra Angels, a staple of the series since release, were removed from 5th Edition for being 'far too powerful'--but even with that in mind, this card allowing you to fill your hand and graveyard with any creatures of your choice for very cheap made it quite broken even at the time.
Yeah, there was even a block deck that used survival called recsur because recurring nightmare was in the same block and oh man was recsur degenerate when you got the engine rolling. It was a slow grind, but it got lots of card advantage going to the point opponents couldn't keep up at all while fogging with spike weaver, gaining life with spike feeder, or pounding your face in with that card that spawns a 1/1 every turn to feed the recurring nightmare and was also a big beatstick. I remember legacy with the card, it was crazy what it could do at the end before the axe came down and now it could do even more of course just getting better with each set usually.
@@dstreetz91 I had the gold-border Recurring Survival WC deck and it took me a while to figure out how it worked (couldn't just look it up on the internet at the time), but once it clicked, that was a super fun deck to play. It was pretty busted then, but would be absolutely broken with today's pool of cards.
@@elitebuster2012 There's absolutely no way he'd fall for Stoneforge. Cheating things out of the Deck for cheap, is universally a good effect, especially when it's coming off a cheap monster/creature.
Welp in Yugioh we have a card called Solemn Judgement, which allows us to yeet a card activation clean with the cost of half a life point and it's still super good ,so seeing mental mistep only cost 2 lives for a effect of disruption I instantly thought it was a staple
Tbf it’s not quite that. It’s a much more limited range you can use it on, like a judgement for 800 but you can only use it on a normal summoned monsters effect. But that judgement is also a handtrap that counters itself.
An episode about limited cards would be great. Cards like Goblin Shortcutter from ZDR or Imperial Oath from NEO is a great way to look at another side of MtG.
This is pretty great content. Some suggestions for future episodes: Darksteel Relic Curse of Silence Mind Swords Meddling Mage Jace, Wielder of Mysteries Kappa Cannoneer
Only now watching this do I realize that the double faced cards where you pick a side to play are basically pendulum monsters in Yu-Gi-Oh, where you choose whether you play it as a monster or a spell.
Yu-Gi-Oh player here, dabble in Magic now and then. Relentless Rats seems better than Shadowborn Apostle because it’s just a flat boost to your other rats, Apostle probably isn’t going to activate it’s effect during a game. The effect of being allowed any number of those cards in a deck is very funny, Digimon has similar cards, I don’t think Yugioh could have a card with that effect without making it very bad
@@rustycox7741 apostle is actually better due to combo potential because of the card edge Walker. At least IMO. The only thing that relentless rats can really combo off with is thrumming Stone
As a yugioh player: MTG has no zone limits, right? So you could summon a load of Relentless Rats and use them to OTK? Like you might do with Numeron in yugioh? (Although this kind of card would never be printed in yugioh, you can't even play 4 different Umi retrains).
@@IamGrimalkinYes, Magic has no zone limits, so in theory you could storm off to play a ton of rats, but they have summoning sickness and can't attack because they don't have haste, meaning you need to pass turn to your opponent, who could wipe your whole board and leave you with nothing. The rats also cost three mana each, which is awkward because it means you normally can't cast two of them a turn until turn 6, which is very late, plus you have to actually draw all of them. Obviously you can build your deck to give your rats haste and draw more cards and make more mana, but now you're diluting your rats with a bunch of other pieces just to make them playable (and spending more mana to do it). It's just too much work for a mediocre payoff. If you're already building your deck to include massive mana generation or infinite mana and tons of card draw, you want a wincon that wins the game on the spot with a single card, instead of trying to cast a bunch of rats. Something like Tendrils of Agony would be a much better choice; even mana-intensive Storm wincons like Mind's Desire or Dragonstorm are more efficient. Compare also to cards like Empty the Warrens or Chatterstorm, which will also make a huge board of creatures but do so when you cast just one copy of that card, so you don't need to draw as well and can do it earlier because you don't need to have as many cards or as much mana available to get your reward. Honestly, Relentless Rats seems better played fairly to apply pressure in a grindy midrange strategy, but even there and even sticking just to the Rat creature type, you'd be better off playing Pack Rat along with cards you could discard for value and removal.
YGO player here with almost no Magic experience - this was a really fun video! I judged every card based on whether or not I thought it would be good in YGO and I got the same answers. Yawgmoth's Bargain was a tricky one because the effect is obviously insane, but I didn't know if any ways to cheat the cost existed (was getting Heart of the Underdog or Supply Squad vibes). Also, I had no idea that Magic cards could have two sides and my mind has been completely blown away by that concept. I also watched the opposite version of this on the YGO channel and it was really neat to see the other perspective. Love this content, hope there's more in the future.
I feel like dredge cards would potentially be difficult to see the power of. Lions eye diamond is another example of a broken card that is hard to evaluate at first glance. Sensei’s divining top would probably be easier to figure out it was at least good, but I imagine it would be hard for someone to recognize just HOW good it really is.
LED at first was...bad. Even though demonic tutor existed there wasn't storm cards printed yet. It only took a few years for it to reach oh this is just flatout broken though when burning wish was released into the world and vintage got the 4 burning wish 4 LED with yawg's win in the sideboard, wheel of fortune, timetwister, all sorts of silly stuff ensued.
The omenkeel is terrible in standard but amazing in EDH. It's a great feeling when the rest of your tables eyes pop out their sockets when you exile the top 17 cards of someones deck and now you'll never miss a land drop. The keyword here is the omenkeel says when a vehicle does damage not when it deals damage.
Love this series! One thing I think should be mentioned just as background info to help out is the distinction between /playing/ a land and having a land enter the battlefield. It seemed like at times he was evaluating some of the cards (Cosima, Undergrowth Champion) by thinking of the land effect as only happening once per turn because you're only allowed to /play/ one land per turn (unless a card like Explore etc. lets you do otherwise). But of course decks with green in them can easily be putting out 3 or 4 per turn with good ramp. I realize fetches were mentioned, but other ramp stuff wasn't. Cheers!
Would love to see cards that can break Yu-Gi-Oh like sensei's divining top or cards that are so weird like gitrog monster and just bad stuff like Aurelia's fury
Kinda hard to evaluate what would "break yugioh" since magic cards are balanced around mana which yugioh doesnt have. A lot o cards would break yugioh if they didnt have mana costs. Most draw spells would
The equivalent of Stupor and Act of Treason (and of course divination) are banned in YGO. Not having a mana system wildly alters the power level of noncreatures
@@fredrikfagerberg6783 You're absolutely correct on these points, but we did get the Act of Treason equivalent back last banlist, and it's seen no play due to the current speed of the game (Not discounting Change of Heart's history of course, it's just too likely to be prime negation-bait in most matchups to be worth running the one copy in your deck)
+1 for necropotence, back why Scrye used to rate the cards it was a 1 out of 5. It took what felt like forever in the pre-dojo days for the world to learn how broken it was.
I actually like seeing things like this as it show the balance between both games. I've played both games and can tell you it's always nice to see people look at the other game and get a solid grasp on the mindset of somethings.
On Mental Misstep: It's also broken because ANY deck can run it thanks to it mana-less cost. So now, no matter your deck's colors, you had access to counterspells.
I think if you really want to throw him for a loop ask him what he thinks of Bonesplitter. It's a great example of a card that would otherwise be in one category, but because of the existence of another card, it goes straight into the other. Mirrodin block btw is filled with cards like that.
I calculated about 20 years ago that each life point in Magic is equal to 400 life points in Yugioh since 8000 ÷ 20 = 400, so the Yugioh version of Yawgmoth's Bargain would say Pay 400 life points to draw a card.
i can remember everyone playing MM back in standard and Extended (you all remember Extended?!?!?!). it gave EVERY color access to counter. I used to play RDW with a play set of Mental Misstep just because you didnt have to spash blue.
That coupled with the phyrexian cost is what got it banned in modern/legacy. In EDH you still have to be in blue to play it and it doesn't see much play in casual, but it feels nice when you're going forth and the starting player loses his turn one fish or sol ring.
Yep, if it required you to discard a blue card, it would have been a budget Force of Will. Still really good, but not nearly as oppressive. Allowing anyone to spend life to cast it just forced it to be a sideboard card for everyone.
I think if you want to trip Adam up you should include one of the 'pact' cards like Pact of Negation or Slaughter Pact- having a card that is initially free but forces you to pay a cost later could be hard to figure out, and those cards vary wildly in playability so you can pick one that's a staple or a stinker.
I am a yugioh player and the minute i saw mental misstep i knew it was absolutely busted. It's like a solemn judgment that can be activated from hand but the cost is 1000 lifepoints instead of half of whatever you have.
Honestly, most of these cards' power can be answered by a simple question: "How often would this card feasibly be 'dead' in my hand?" If it's lower, theoretically it should be closer to staple than chaff.
It would be interesting to do this with the following 5 cards: Survival of the Fittest Fauna Shaman Birthing Pod Prime Speaker Yannifar Evolutionary Leap They're all, broadly speaking, the same effect: pitching one creature to go find another, on a permanent which lets you do it repeatedly. But two of those cards have entire archetypes named after them, and the other three saw either zero play or extremely fringe play.
Mental Misstep also doesn’t have any color requirements, so it could go in literally any deck (except in commander). Phyrexian mana was a mistake. Anyway, I always want more people to talk about Panglacial Wurm, so that’s my suggestion.
Worth noting on Survival was played in era as it was in the same block and standard as living death so you can just playing a bunch of green 1 turn than living death some fattys such as the big one at the time verdant force. Bargain was in the same set as Archenemy Rector and in one of the most powerful blocks of magic cards ever, within that block was the more reasonable card pyrexian tower to sac the rector to get bargain and have the mana to start moving to kill your opponant the power on the deck was the 2nd post in the format (the other one got very banned) however the win condition of syphon life not great.
I like Cosima's back half more than it's front half. That sort of flexibility is good, but it is still Christmas-landy for it to work out for you like the front half
Some cards to include in these: Fact or Fiction, and Steam Augury Gifts Ungiven Standstill Tangle Wire Rishadan Port Cursed Scroll Isamaru, Hound of Konda Remand Wild Nacatl Venser, Shaper Savant Ball Lightning
I think if you take into account that the cost for drawing a card with YW is 5% of the mtg life total the equivalent in yugioh would be 400 which makes it an almost insta bann if ever entered into the yugioh meta it would just be absolutely busted
The best part of Mental Misstep if you don't even have to play blue for it because of its alternate cost. Throw it into your mono red burn, throw it into your Dune deck, who cares.
Mental misstep for magic sounds like the ash blossom of yugioh. Both cards create such intense tempo disrupting effects and can literally switch the game result in 1 turn.
don't recall if it has already been shown, but Impervious greatworm would be a fun card here. other cards that could be fun: (apologies if any of these already been used.) The World Tree Lucky Clover bonecrusher giant / stomp murderous rider / swift end mind over matter parallax wave tragic slip leyline of anticipation hedron crab doomed traveler lingering souls Moldgraff scavenger splinterfright ghoultree gravecrawler ancient stirrings unbreathing horde release to the wind
To point out how good yawgmoth's bargain was, there's another card called Griselbrand who was a 7/7 flying intimidate (can only be blocked by monsters that share a color with Griselbrand) who costed 4 and 4 black. He had an ability that simply read "pay 7 life: draw seven cards." On release he was immediately busted because everyone cheated him in. You couldn't control how many cards you got or how much life you paid, really. But he was still just as broken as yawgmoth's bargain. You could potentially put Griselbrand in for 2 or 3 mana as opposed to his "normal" cost of 8 mana. Yawgmoth's bargain was able to drop turn 2 or 3 often enough... which was just so fast it would just win you the game. And, unless you countered it, even if you targeted it with removal it could just respond to the removal with drawing cards anyways. The card was *beyond* broken.
idk why undergrowth champion is bad, yes maybe back then it was slow, but now a day you can literaly put it in a +1/+1 counter deck, landfall deck, and then you can equip it with idk something to give it trample indestructible, and hexproof and you got yourself 1 hell of a monster on the field
You may have done more to fool him about Cosima if you mentioned the fact that you normally can only have one legendary creature with the same name in play at a time... so.. having the back side (which interacts nicely with the front side) somewhat mitigates the downside to putting multiple copies of the same legend in your deck
What's the practical difference in how Necropotence and Yawgmoth's Bargain work, if any? They seem really similar, with bargain being a streamlined version of the two.
Necro gives you the cards on your end step rather than right away and exiles whatever you discard. It also isn't technically draw, so it can go under a card like Notion Thief.
Survival of the Fittest was busted the day it was released. I have no idea why this pro MTG player is saying when it was released all creatures sucked when this came out after multiple sets where creature power level was rising exponentially.
The big thing with mental misstep is that you can play it without having blue mana. Even colors that don't get counter options can pay 2 life to use it. Mono Green? Sure, just pay 2 life.
I only really play Commander, so I don’t usually think about what cards are good in Modern/Legacy. For example, I play very few 1 CMC spells in my decks.
That seems weird design to me. I don’t play commander very often, but my decks have quite a few 1 mana spells in them. There are a lot of really broken 1 mana spells this protects against. If it’s completely useless in the board state it can be pitched to Force or Will or Force of Negation also.
I must just play a lower power level, no one in my play group runs force of will or force of negation. I just had a quick look, and my decks have an average of about five 1 CMC spells
@@veryblocky Nice. I envy you then buddy. I had to upgrade my decks to even be competitive with the commander play groups. Kind of killed any of the little interest I had in the format.
Nexus of fate, the card so accidentally powerful wotc printed it as a buy a box promo Hogaak, Arisen Necropolis Garth One-Eye Questing Beast Fable of the Mirror Breaker Lantern of Insight Golos, Tireless Pilgrim Revel in Riches Field of the Dead Teferi, hero of dominaria Lurrus of the Dream-Den Uro, titan of nature's wrath Thassa's Oracle Channel Brazen Borrower Embercleave
I remember when Mental Misstep was released a lot of people were playing it in their decks. I was running a green ramp deck at the time and I played a turn one Birds of Paradise. My opponent immediately used Mental Misstep on it. I however also ran a card called Summoning Trap in my deck. Summoning Trap was cast at instant speed for 4 of any color + 2 Green mana and when cast allowed you to look through the top 7 cards of your library and put a creature from among those cards onto the battlefield and then shuffle the library. But, if any creature spell that I cast was countered on that turn I could then cast Summoning Trap for 0 mana. I had 2 of them in my hand and used both of them which allowed me to get a Primeval Titan and an Emrakul, The Aeons Torn onto the field turn 1. My opponent then forfeit the round and pulled his Mental Missteps out of his deck for some other sideboard cards. I still get a chuckle out of that one.
That is disgusting lmao
Activated your trap card
lol green can be degenerate too
Sounds like he made a mental misstep.
@@kevinb5417 take your damn like
13:07 tfw a Yu-Gi-Oh Player understands "Reading the card explains the card" better than most Magic players LOL
magic players seem way more likely to take design truisms like that for granted rather than thinking them through and applying them
I mean i can understand every single card game in the market(hs, lor etc but i mostly play weiss and yugioh irl because the demographic here force me to do it) but i somehow still need an emulators to determine how an effect resolve in yugioh negate faceup etc.
Show how stupidly annoying yugioh rulings are, but it is so satisfying when i pull it off, like i summoned Lonefire Blossom(im playing rikka irl) through living fossil and activate its effect, then my opponent poker facing my play unknowingly that's a legal move lmao.
Ironically, neither of them read lol
Nah Yugioh players are infamous for not reading the cards, lol. But to be fair, every card is a book nowdays
To be fair a lot of Yu-Gi-Oh cards I've seen look like a novel with all the words. Although MTG is getting there. we're just not used to a lot of text.
Extremely Impressed by him so quickly honing in on exactly what happened with Misstep, spot on.
Yes! However i am supprised they did not mention, that with the alternative cost, it can be played in any deck regardless the color!
You can easily see a train wreck if you thrive in an environment full of train wrecks
@T.J. Johnson I immediately thinking about Solemn another Solemn
@@sirsimon6562 it happened in yugioh with crossout designator, low cost but going second you can set and crossout a crossout to get out of a bind
@T.J. Johnson one of the counters to Maxx "C" being activating your own to lock your opponent out of it IIRC
“This can counter itself.”
*PTSD of mental misstep one ups manship* “Yes.”
That's why at the end you just mention the Storm count to make your opponent sweat.
mental misstep is still my fav card.
@@ODST_SSGT I loved the MM Legacy meta no cap...
@@bruwin at the end of the war
Flusterstorm
Thing is that a good amount of the time, making your opponent fight over a Misstep is actually great for you. In a one-for-one battle, you win by being the proactive player.
I like it better when you show in the bottom of the screen the rated cards and how the guest is doing, but very fun series!
I love that he refers to a search card as a "tutor", which just shows Magic's historic influence on all card games
Yu-Gi-Oh players even use mill 😅 and they don't know why
Thing is that a lot of these game-actions are used in multiple games and kinda demand a proper one word term to describe them. Tutoring and milling are useful verbs that replace longer sentences.
@@lostalone9320 sure. But they come specifically from Magic cards. Hence OPs comment....
I heard tutor was a reference to a magic card but I don't know what it actually does.
But in the past when I heard people mention 'tutor', they were talking about special summoning from deck, not searching?
What does it actually do?
@@IamGrimalkin In the very first set of Magic, they printed a black card called Demonic Tutor that looked through your library for any card and put it in your hand.
Not having been around back then, I can't tell you if that immediately became the name for deck searching effects or if it took until the printing of things like Enlightened Tutor, Mystic Tutor, and Vampiric Tutor (respectively, searched enchantments and artifacts, instants and sorceries, and anything but cost 2 life) to solidify that name for the effect.
Importantly those 3 instead of putting it in your hand, put it to the top of your library, thus any deck searching effect became known as a tutor, no matter where the card ended up. Even cards like Buried Alive that send it to your graveyard, are known as tutors (although the actual action of doing it is sometimes called entombing, named after the 1 mana spell that does it).
2:40 Despite declaring it a staple, they UNDERRATE this card. I started playing Magic in '97. Survival of the Fittest released in '98 with Exodus. It was the primary card in the '98 World Championship deck. Certainly the creatures of the time were trash tier compared to modern Magic--Serra Angels, a staple of the series since release, were removed from 5th Edition for being 'far too powerful'--but even with that in mind, this card allowing you to fill your hand and graveyard with any creatures of your choice for very cheap made it quite broken even at the time.
Yeah, there was even a block deck that used survival called recsur because recurring nightmare was in the same block and oh man was recsur degenerate when you got the engine rolling. It was a slow grind, but it got lots of card advantage going to the point opponents couldn't keep up at all while fogging with spike weaver, gaining life with spike feeder, or pounding your face in with that card that spawns a 1/1 every turn to feed the recurring nightmare and was also a big beatstick. I remember legacy with the card, it was crazy what it could do at the end before the axe came down and now it could do even more of course just getting better with each set usually.
@@dstreetz91 I had the gold-border Recurring Survival WC deck and it took me a while to figure out how it worked (couldn't just look it up on the internet at the time), but once it clicked, that was a super fun deck to play. It was pretty busted then, but would be absolutely broken with today's pool of cards.
Equipments are super hard to evaluate. They would work as great bait in this series!
Oh yeah, and Stoneforge Mystic
@@elitebuster2012 There's absolutely no way he'd fall for Stoneforge. Cheating things out of the Deck for cheap, is universally a good effect, especially when it's coming off a cheap monster/creature.
Maybe do a "swords special" fire & ice, feast and famine, and the world ender type one that looked powerful but was a bit crap.
Just use CAWBlade cards. It’s a hard deck to pilot and not everything is clearly powerful.
I think goblin guide is a perfect card to try and throw someone off as well
A- I love he realized it can counter itself. And B- I just love this series haha.
Monogreen running missteps to misstep their opponent's missteps on their elves
@@karfsma778 yep! Every deck period! 😒😒
Welp in Yugioh we have a card called Solemn Judgement, which allows us to yeet a card activation clean with the cost of half a life point and it's still super good ,so seeing mental mistep only cost 2 lives for a effect of disruption I instantly thought it was a staple
Tbf it’s not quite that. It’s a much more limited range you can use it on, like a judgement for 800 but you can only use it on a normal summoned monsters effect. But that judgement is also a handtrap that counters itself.
Like solemn warning where its nore limited but only 2000 life which while not a staple did see a bunch of play back when traps were viable
An episode about limited cards would be great.
Cards like Goblin Shortcutter from ZDR or Imperial Oath from NEO is a great way to look at another side of MtG.
This is pretty great content. Some suggestions for future episodes:
Darksteel Relic
Curse of Silence
Mind Swords
Meddling Mage
Jace, Wielder of Mysteries
Kappa Cannoneer
Be really funny to see a card like Norin the Wary and Dark Depths on here
Listening to him explain exactly why the bargain is one of the most busted cards ever then decide it was a stinker had me dying!
Only now watching this do I realize that the double faced cards where you pick a side to play are basically pendulum monsters in Yu-Gi-Oh, where you choose whether you play it as a monster or a spell.
I mean that's a stretch
@@ant-onemusic444 just a little bit
As a non Magic player Pendulum cards were the first thing I was thinking off too. Instantly thought "So basically works like a Pendulum card"
Out of curiousity, do they still count as both types while in the GY for stuff like Delerium or Tarmogoyf?
@@Aquilenne as far as I know they count as the front face while in the grave, so in Cosima's case he would count as the creature side.
I really want to see how a Yu-Gi-Oh player would react to cards like Relentless Rats or Shadowborn Apostle, even if they are easy to evaluate
Yu-Gi-Oh player here, dabble in Magic now and then. Relentless Rats seems better than Shadowborn Apostle because it’s just a flat boost to your other rats, Apostle probably isn’t going to activate it’s effect during a game. The effect of being allowed any number of those cards in a deck is very funny, Digimon has similar cards, I don’t think Yugioh could have a card with that effect without making it very bad
@@rustycox7741 They both never saw any tournament play. But they DO have some really fun EDH decks
@@rustycox7741 apostle is actually better due to combo potential because of the card edge Walker. At least IMO. The only thing that relentless rats can really combo off with is thrumming Stone
As a yugioh player: MTG has no zone limits, right?
So you could summon a load of Relentless Rats and use them to OTK?
Like you might do with Numeron in yugioh?
(Although this kind of card would never be printed in yugioh, you can't even play 4 different Umi retrains).
@@IamGrimalkinYes, Magic has no zone limits, so in theory you could storm off to play a ton of rats, but they have summoning sickness and can't attack because they don't have haste, meaning you need to pass turn to your opponent, who could wipe your whole board and leave you with nothing. The rats also cost three mana each, which is awkward because it means you normally can't cast two of them a turn until turn 6, which is very late, plus you have to actually draw all of them. Obviously you can build your deck to give your rats haste and draw more cards and make more mana, but now you're diluting your rats with a bunch of other pieces just to make them playable (and spending more mana to do it). It's just too much work for a mediocre payoff. If you're already building your deck to include massive mana generation or infinite mana and tons of card draw, you want a wincon that wins the game on the spot with a single card, instead of trying to cast a bunch of rats. Something like Tendrils of Agony would be a much better choice; even mana-intensive Storm wincons like Mind's Desire or Dragonstorm are more efficient. Compare also to cards like Empty the Warrens or Chatterstorm, which will also make a huge board of creatures but do so when you cast just one copy of that card, so you don't need to draw as well and can do it earlier because you don't need to have as many cards or as much mana available to get your reward.
Honestly, Relentless Rats seems better played fairly to apply pressure in a grindy midrange strategy, but even there and even sticking just to the Rat creature type, you'd be better off playing Pack Rat along with cards you could discard for value and removal.
YGO player here with almost no Magic experience - this was a really fun video! I judged every card based on whether or not I thought it would be good in YGO and I got the same answers. Yawgmoth's Bargain was a tricky one because the effect is obviously insane, but I didn't know if any ways to cheat the cost existed (was getting Heart of the Underdog or Supply Squad vibes). Also, I had no idea that Magic cards could have two sides and my mind has been completely blown away by that concept.
I also watched the opposite version of this on the YGO channel and it was really neat to see the other perspective. Love this content, hope there's more in the future.
There will definitely be more on both channels 🙂
I feel like dredge cards would potentially be difficult to see the power of. Lions eye diamond is another example of a broken card that is hard to evaluate at first glance. Sensei’s divining top would probably be easier to figure out it was at least good, but I imagine it would be hard for someone to recognize just HOW good it really is.
i think anyone who reads LED would say its strong because its so suspiciously hard to use.
@@empty5013 I don’t know this would look any better to an MTG noob than something like One With Nothing.
@@empty5013 Somewhat on the contrary, initially people thought LED's drawback was impossible to circumvent and the card was useless.
@@TheJohtaja it kinda was until cards came about that can abuse it and rules changes took place that made it more usable
LED at first was...bad. Even though demonic tutor existed there wasn't storm cards printed yet. It only took a few years for it to reach oh this is just flatout broken though when burning wish was released into the world and vintage got the 4 burning wish 4 LED with yawg's win in the sideboard, wheel of fortune, timetwister, all sorts of silly stuff ensued.
I've watched a lot of videos like this... and 16:39 is probably my favorite moment in any of them. Kudos on recognizing the counterwar potential.
I can tell this guy is very intelligent and analytical by his thought process spoken out loud. It's always fun to see these videos.
it's exactly why i like watching him talk. This is some of the best content.
Ah yes, mental misstep, the miniature force of will. The phyrexian set made a lot of interesting decisions.
The omenkeel is terrible in standard but amazing in EDH. It's a great feeling when the rest of your tables eyes pop out their sockets when you exile the top 17 cards of someones deck and now you'll never miss a land drop. The keyword here is the omenkeel says when a vehicle does damage not when it deals damage.
Every card can be great in the right EDH deck 😉 for the purposes of these series, we pretend EDH doesn't exist and focus on the 60-card formats
Love this series!
One thing I think should be mentioned just as background info to help out is the distinction between /playing/ a land and having a land enter the battlefield.
It seemed like at times he was evaluating some of the cards (Cosima, Undergrowth Champion) by thinking of the land effect as only happening once per turn because you're only allowed to /play/ one land per turn (unless a card like Explore etc. lets you do otherwise). But of course decks with green in them can easily be putting out 3 or 4 per turn with good ramp.
I realize fetches were mentioned, but other ramp stuff wasn't. Cheers!
Would love to see cards that can break Yu-Gi-Oh like sensei's divining top or cards that are so weird like gitrog monster and just bad stuff like Aurelia's fury
Kinda hard to evaluate what would "break yugioh" since magic cards are balanced around mana which yugioh doesnt have. A lot o cards would break yugioh if they didnt have mana costs. Most draw spells would
The equivalent of Stupor and Act of Treason (and of course divination) are banned in YGO. Not having a mana system wildly alters the power level of noncreatures
@@fredrikfagerberg6783 You're absolutely correct on these points, but we did get the Act of Treason equivalent back last banlist, and it's seen no play due to the current speed of the game (Not discounting Change of Heart's history of course, it's just too likely to be prime negation-bait in most matchups to be worth running the one copy in your deck)
Some fun cards to evaluate. Yagmoth’s will, painter’s servant necropotence, helm of obedience, life from the loam, maze’s end.
+1 for necropotence, back why Scrye used to rate the cards it was a 1 out of 5. It took what felt like forever in the pre-dojo days for the world to learn how broken it was.
they did Necro
For mental misstep, since it has pherexian mana, you can play it in any deck regardless of colour
Mono grenn vs Mono white.... forest, llanowar elf, go... plains, savannah lions? *green player - No!, misstep*
Man I love his assessments. Listen to him dissect mental misstep was perfect. 😂
I actually like seeing things like this as it show the balance between both games. I've played both games and can tell you it's always nice to see people look at the other game and get a solid grasp on the mindset of somethings.
As someone who came around from the beginning of magic
Loved both infinite living death and rec/sur
Survival has a special place in my heart ❤
"Mental Misstep" is a good description about the designers who thought that card was a good idea.
Verdict: Adam is better at Magic than Toffel is at Yugioh
This means we must have a rematch. More staple or stinker content
On Mental Misstep: It's also broken because ANY deck can run it thanks to it mana-less cost. So now, no matter your deck's colors, you had access to counterspells.
I think if you really want to throw him for a loop ask him what he thinks of Bonesplitter. It's a great example of a card that would otherwise be in one category, but because of the existence of another card, it goes straight into the other.
Mirrodin block btw is filled with cards like that.
I like how he instantly stapled Mental Misstep, it's basically MtG's Ash Blossom/Effect Veiler but on crack
That guy hasn’t even seen other counter spell cards like Force of Will, Flusterstorm, Force of Negation, and Fierce Guardianship.😂🤣
Dude looked at a non once-per-turn draw 1 and said "yeah that's a stinker"
I calculated about 20 years ago that each life point in Magic is equal to 400 life points in Yugioh since 8000 ÷ 20 = 400, so the Yugioh version of Yawgmoth's Bargain would say Pay 400 life points to draw a card.
i can remember everyone playing MM back in standard and Extended (you all remember Extended?!?!?!). it gave EVERY color access to counter. I used to play RDW with a play set of Mental Misstep just because you didnt have to spash blue.
To my mind, the thing that makes Mental Misstep so insanely powerful, is that you can play it in a non-blue deck.
That coupled with the phyrexian cost is what got it banned in modern/legacy. In EDH you still have to be in blue to play it and it doesn't see much play in casual, but it feels nice when you're going forth and the starting player loses his turn one fish or sol ring.
Yep, if it required you to discard a blue card, it would have been a budget Force of Will. Still really good, but not nearly as oppressive. Allowing anyone to spend life to cast it just forced it to be a sideboard card for everyone.
I think the first one is good combined with decks that lets you dredge monsters...so a green black deck would work great.
9:06 the most powerful black spell of the game :D
These videos are very fun; I'd love to see MTG players rate classic YGO cards as well as opposed to modern stuff.
Cool idea!
I don't know if it was mentioned but tireless tracker would fit very well too especially after we saw cosima :)
“That was my generous offer” this is my generous gift!
I think if you want to trip Adam up you should include one of the 'pact' cards like Pact of Negation or Slaughter Pact- having a card that is initially free but forces you to pay a cost later could be hard to figure out, and those cards vary wildly in playability so you can pick one that's a staple or a stinker.
I have an mtg card called goblin assault team. I soon realized it’s a reference to goblin attack force from yugioh.
I like the more qualified/educated guesses on this genre! Great video!
Glad you enjoyed!
I am a yugioh player and the minute i saw mental misstep i knew it was absolutely busted. It's like a solemn judgment that can be activated from hand but the cost is 1000 lifepoints instead of half of whatever you have.
16:52 "ok... This cards really good..."
He sees it.
Staples:
Goblin Guide
Mishra's Bauble
Crucible of Worlds
Gush
Thassa's Oracle
Dark Depths
Stinkers:
Kalonian Hydra
Temporal Mastery
Phyrexian Obliterator
Stuffy Doll
Phage the Untouchable
Divert
Decimate
Thank you! We are always looking for new ones, especially good stinkers!
Honestly, most of these cards' power can be answered by a simple question:
"How often would this card feasibly be 'dead' in my hand?"
If it's lower, theoretically it should be closer to staple than chaff.
yes, consistency is more important than potential
It would be interesting to do this with the following 5 cards:
Survival of the Fittest
Fauna Shaman
Birthing Pod
Prime Speaker Yannifar
Evolutionary Leap
They're all, broadly speaking, the same effect: pitching one creature to go find another, on a permanent which lets you do it repeatedly. But two of those cards have entire archetypes named after them, and the other three saw either zero play or extremely fringe play.
Mental Misstep also doesn’t have any color requirements, so it could go in literally any deck (except in commander). Phyrexian mana was a mistake.
Anyway, I always want more people to talk about Panglacial Wurm, so that’s my suggestion.
Worth noting on Survival was played in era as it was in the same block and standard as living death so you can just playing a bunch of green 1 turn than living death some fattys such as the big one at the time verdant force.
Bargain was in the same set as Archenemy Rector and in one of the most powerful blocks of magic cards ever, within that block was the more reasonable card pyrexian tower to sac the rector to get bargain and have the mana to start moving to kill your opponant the power on the deck was the 2nd post in the format (the other one got very banned) however the win condition of syphon life not great.
I'd love to see what his, and your view, of "Go-Shintai of Life's Origin" is
I like Cosima's back half more than it's front half.
That sort of flexibility is good, but it is still Christmas-landy for it to work out for you like the front half
Interesting
Magic seems to have more enchanted,medievalesque terms
I might try it some day
Some cards to include in these:
Fact or Fiction, and Steam Augury
Gifts Ungiven
Standstill
Tangle Wire
Rishadan Port
Cursed Scroll
Isamaru, Hound of Konda
Remand
Wild Nacatl
Venser, Shaper Savant
Ball Lightning
MY FAVORITE SERIES IS BACK!!!
I think if you take into account that the cost for drawing a card with YW is 5% of the mtg life total the equivalent in yugioh would be 400 which makes it an almost insta bann if ever entered into the yugioh meta it would just be absolutely busted
Cards that I would be interested in seeing are Hedron Crab, rune-scarred demon & Gadrak the crown-scourge
If I'm not wrong, those are combo cards? It's harder to judge combo cards individually.
The best part of Mental Misstep if you don't even have to play blue for it because of its alternate cost. Throw it into your mono red burn, throw it into your Dune deck, who cares.
Really cool video, will like to see Fact or Fiction and Norin the wary be evaluated
Yugioh player: if it has a wall of text probably good
Mental misstep for magic sounds like the ash blossom of yugioh. Both cards create such intense tempo disrupting effects and can literally switch the game result in 1 turn.
His thought process is nice regardless of if hes right or not
don't recall if it has already been shown, but Impervious greatworm would be a fun card here.
other cards that could be fun:
(apologies if any of these already been used.)
The World Tree
Lucky Clover
bonecrusher giant / stomp
murderous rider / swift end
mind over matter
parallax wave
tragic slip
leyline of anticipation
hedron crab
doomed traveler
lingering souls
Moldgraff scavenger
splinterfright
ghoultree
gravecrawler
ancient stirrings
unbreathing horde
release to the wind
they did Parallax Wave
Fable of the mirror breaker, skrelv, platin Angel, darksteel Kollos and Alruns Epiphany would be my suggestions.
Mental Mistep Wars sound a lot like Hand Trap Wars in Yu-gi-oh
I really feel like even with how straight forward Magic is this is a lot easier than Yugioh or something like Hearth stone imo
To point out how good yawgmoth's bargain was, there's another card called Griselbrand who was a 7/7 flying intimidate (can only be blocked by monsters that share a color with Griselbrand) who costed 4 and 4 black. He had an ability that simply read "pay 7 life: draw seven cards." On release he was immediately busted because everyone cheated him in.
You couldn't control how many cards you got or how much life you paid, really. But he was still just as broken as yawgmoth's bargain. You could potentially put Griselbrand in for 2 or 3 mana as opposed to his "normal" cost of 8 mana. Yawgmoth's bargain was able to drop turn 2 or 3 often enough... which was just so fast it would just win you the game. And, unless you countered it, even if you targeted it with removal it could just respond to the removal with drawing cards anyways. The card was *beyond* broken.
Griseldaddy has Lifelink, not Intimidate
I think pulling stuff out that were a staple of their standard but didn't see much success in eternal formats would be this game on hard mode
I got one: Weather the Storm.
idk why undergrowth champion is bad, yes maybe back then it was slow, but now a day you can literaly put it in a +1/+1 counter deck, landfall deck, and then you can equip it with idk something to give it trample indestructible, and hexproof and you got yourself 1 hell of a monster on the field
I'm going to start running these by my partner who is a new player. Great learning opportunity!
Fantastic!
Cosima is a great card in a deck where it's wanted (i.e. Shorikai) but in a vacuum I guess it needs some support.
Qasali Ambusher, Primeval Titan, Tallowisp, Infernal Caretaker, Any of the Karoo Lands would be my spread.
The dude in the white sweatshirt looks exactly like ShadyPenguin in the thumbnail. Hope someone else sees what I see
You may have done more to fool him about Cosima if you mentioned the fact that you normally can only have one legendary creature with the same name in play at a time... so.. having the back side (which interacts nicely with the front side) somewhat mitigates the downside to putting multiple copies of the same legend in your deck
Countering a t1 sol ring with MM is god tier.
I'm kind of shocked that the only one he got wrong was Yogmoth's Bargain
How the turn have tabled.
I dont think the omenkeel needs to be crewed for the effect tho
I once build a land deck that could play like 5-10 lands on 1 turn u should have told him these options :)
Good stuff! I really enjoy this format. More Thoralf pls!
I think is the moment to start showing him combos and interaction, so he has to guess if they are good or bad...
This is a weird comment, but this entire video has given me such deja vu. Like I swear I have seen the exact cards haha
What's the practical difference in how Necropotence and Yawgmoth's Bargain work, if any? They seem really similar, with bargain being a streamlined version of the two.
Necro gives you the cards on your end step rather than right away and exiles whatever you discard. It also isn't technically draw, so it can go under a card like Notion Thief.
@@MrNess640 So true, thanks!
Love this series! Keep it up!
Gonna make this poor dude read Cosima? I haven't even finished reading that card yet 😮
Fortunately you watched this and didn't have to
I'd love for bot Ur-Dragon and Tiamat to be on here. Different episodes though.
Survival of the Fittest was busted the day it was released. I have no idea why this pro MTG player is saying when it was released all creatures sucked when this came out after multiple sets where creature power level was rising exponentially.
The big thing with mental misstep is that you can play it without having blue mana. Even colors that don't get counter options can pay 2 life to use it. Mono Green? Sure, just pay 2 life.
I only really play Commander, so I don’t usually think about what cards are good in Modern/Legacy.
For example, I play very few 1 CMC spells in my decks.
That seems weird design to me. I don’t play commander very often, but my decks have quite a few 1 mana spells in them.
There are a lot of really broken 1 mana spells this protects against. If it’s completely useless in the board state it can be pitched to Force or Will or Force of Negation also.
I must just play a lower power level, no one in my play group runs force of will or force of negation.
I just had a quick look, and my decks have an average of about five 1 CMC spells
@@veryblocky Nice. I envy you then buddy. I had to upgrade my decks to even be competitive with the commander play groups. Kind of killed any of the little interest I had in the format.
i thought that was steve mould at first
Shambling ghast would be a good one
Am I crazy or are Thoralf's forearms massive af?
Survival is a stinker cos it costs $350 bucks for a copy :P
Nexus of fate, the card so accidentally powerful wotc printed it as a buy a box promo
Hogaak, Arisen Necropolis
Garth One-Eye
Questing Beast
Fable of the Mirror Breaker
Lantern of Insight
Golos, Tireless Pilgrim
Revel in Riches
Field of the Dead
Teferi, hero of dominaria
Lurrus of the Dream-Den
Uro, titan of nature's wrath
Thassa's Oracle
Channel
Brazen Borrower
Embercleave
Love this series! Keep it coming!
My card suggestion: emrakul the aeons torn
Great suggestion!
Boros Reckoner
Consuming Aberration
Stuffy Doll
Bronze Bombshell
Briarhorn