haha right...I think playing LoRT really helped. While different games with very different resource and combat systems, the stat lines per mana are pretty similar. LoRT is MTG if MTG had auto lands and every creature had vigilance and haste. But YuGiOh feels like a fundamentally different way of having a creature centric TCG.
@@mattm7798 My favorite way to describe yugioh is imagine you just played 4 turns each in 2 turns instead. It's a back and forth battle for board control and supremacy most of the time. This happens in other games, but you also spend like 4 turns doing basically minimal interactions (which is exactly how a yugioh turn starts out doing, effectively).
@@mattm7798 yeah 100%. old yugioh was *sorta* reminiscent of the pace of modern magic, but back then the design was so simple and the strategies so underdeveloped that no matter what era of yugioh you played, it is inevitably very difficult to transfer your game knowledge to magic. LoR and HS are muuuuch much more similar in comparison and a lot of the ways you would evaluate card strength in those games carry over almost entirely to mtg, with only some minor differences like color diversity and identity.
I think this is my favorite staple or stinker so far. Josh really took his knowledge of other card games and applied it very well to magic. Would love to see him come back and try more cards!
Josh could have a promising Magic career in front of him if he ever decided to give it a try. The fact he went in knowing almost nothing about Magic and then proceeded to completely diagnose Siege Rhino on his game knowledge was hella impressive.
I think it's because of how anal yugioh is about wording that has helped him understand the intent of the card while also having played Hearthstone and Runeterra to understand the stats slightly better.
@@LeonIsLate I mean, he won 4 YCS in total and topped 40 events. He probably is one of the top3 yugioh players of all time. Guy certainly doesn't neeed a promising magic career
I found it so upsetting (in a good way) the whole time I was editing this! Like how does this one person who does not know what an artifact is assess magic cards better than the entire magic community 🤯 Josh is truly a master 👌
@@RMSLtnick sure but the point is more that he's unaware of the test to begin with. He's basing his knowledge of stats off other games, but magic could be significantly above or below rate compared to those for all he knows. Also there's the whole thing about having unlimited tokens, double blocking and all this other magic specific stuff he has no clue about.
Magic players: "Might see play once Polukranos rotates." Person who has never played Magic: Thoroughly describes how each element of Siege Rhino contributes to its role in midrange decks.
Yeah, what really impressed me about this wasn't just "yeah this card is a very efficient, effect laden piece of kit" it was also "I can see this being core in these decks for this reason"
I feel like once you reach a high enough level in one tcg you cn usually have a decent enough understanding of any card game once you know the games main rules. Like I went to my first ever MTG event last weekend playing for the first time in a draft event where my only experience in a game similar is me being a top player in Eternal, which is like a baby MTG refugee center for ex Hearthstone players. I did ok for someone who'd never touched MTG before. I won 2 games out of 6.
@@saphired02 I've been out of magic for a while, and just a glace tells me that this card is wild. Solid blocker, tons of life swapping, a color that can easily bring it back, deathtouch in case they DO have a massive beater early, and a color that commonly includes efficient cards for draw that have a downside of life loss, which is entirely negated by her.
You can tell how much Thoralf is impressed by Josh's analysis of the cards. He definitely didn't expect him to be so spot-on. It's evident that Josh can quickly become a very skilled Magic player if he ever goes through the trouble of learning how to play. Edit. - Great video! Please do more of these.
@Ziri lan we try to focus on cards that were either severely underated or overrated in their standard environment and to specifically select cards that can be evaluated without having to know of other cards (for example, splinter twin or Inverted of truth)
Thinking about it, getting some pro players from other card games who have NEVER played magic to build decks and explain what they are thinking then fight each other would be hilarious. Though it is probably unlikely that any of them have literally never played at all but might still be fun
This is interesting idea, but with how much cards magic has this might be too complicated to pull off just because guest would need to learn so much to even know where to start building. Maybe having constructed or draft with non magic pros would be good to hear they thought process. It could be a whole tournament event. Film video for each deck construction and each match + maybe even prizes at the end. Or having certain pool of cards and guest having to figure out how to build the best deck out of that pool.
Yeah he was seriously impressive. I could not believe it the whole time editing, the guy who does not know what an artifact is is better at assessing magic cards than the whole magic community 😅
Yup. I'd love to see players from as many other card games as possible show up here. I still think that 1 out of the 5 cards should be an intentional "bait" card that sees play in fringe decks, but has never seen *widespread* play. Shuko or Cephalid Illusionist are great examples of super strong combo pieces in a top tier legacy deck, but they're awful on their own without the very specific support they have within that deck. Telling the "challenger" that there's one bait card before they start and revealing their score at the END would lead to a lot of tension where they might be second guessing previous picks, or wanting to change their evaluation as they go.
I like how most Magic Pros were medium on Sheoldred when she was announced, but then Josh was able to figure out Sheoldred was a great card on the spot because Josh had figured out Siege Rhino was good less than ten minutes before seeing Sheoldred for the first time.
Magic pros are right to be skeptical of any big creature that doesn't do something the turn it drops until they can actually test it in the meta. Rhino at least always gets its ETB off. It's just that Sheoldred is insane if she sticks and, being a 4 mana 4/5, dodges enough cheap removal spells to be worth playing. Still, she's best when you've used cheaper threats and discard to ensure she gets time on the board.
Well there was no 'Medium' option here. He knew that the card was either great or bad. And I think most magic pros would figure out that Shelly should be playable at least.
@@MaSolSC2 it's also so context dependent which isn't a big part of these evaluations. MonoBlack or BlackX is INSANE right now and Shelly wouldn't be thought about as highly if the curve before and after was not so good and such a good fit. Yeah this is never a bad creature but the fact it is format defining in standard has a lot to do with other cards like Invoke, Trespasser or Lilli.
@@ThePigKnight Well in yugioh parlance, both would be trigger effects, except Siege Rhino would be "When this card is summoned" while Sheoldred would be "When you/your opponent draws a card(s)".
@@MansMan42069 They are both triggered abilities in magic as well. Siege Rhino's is just referred to as an etb (enters the battlefield) ability for extra precision in description.
The more time that goes by the more I realize Thoralf is one of my favorite people. This whole channel is one of my favorites, the energy, even the production room has this cozy vibe and y'all just seem like a bunch of friends vibing out. Carl's sweaters go a long way too XD Keep up the good work!
Holy crap, Josh's analysis was so good he had me thinking he was lying and was secretly a magic pro 😂 love this guy, might actually get me to watch some yugioh content
I’d say go for it, he’s got some pretty chill streams. He’s pretty charming and analytic. He’s got a YT channel for analyzing cards, deck, and game states, but he’s not really a content creator like a full on Yugituber, but in terms of strategy game players I’d say Josh is probably among top 3 in the western Yu-GI-Oh player base right now.
His yugioh content is my favorite. He is very analytical there as well. It was hilarious how he was analyzing and explaining Magic cards so well, but wasn't sure how combat works 😂😂 He never fails to impress me.
The Siege Rhino and Sheoldred thing made me think it might be fun to do an adaptation where a yugioh player has to rank a cycle best to worst. Thinking the Titans would be a fun one to start
Although I used to play competitive yugioh and have since moved to magic almost 7 years ago, Josh's knowledge and thought process behind his choices give me such respect to competitive yugioh players
"I wanna do more." Yes! I'd love to see it, Josh's analysis of the cards based on his knowledge from other games is incredible, truly deserving of being called Europe's best YGO player in the title.
I love Josh's way of thinking. You can tell that he's very experienced in not only YGO, but card games in general. His only misevaluation comes from just not realizing in time that most aggro creatures are fodder but that's common even among Magic players. Great video and amazing guest. I've never been this excited about a Staple or Stinker.
It's good that all the cards presented here are in the context of standard. Mixing formats of different power levels would be confusing to a new player.
Sheoldred is a staple in pioneer and explorer in mtgarena. There was also a time where Siege Rhino is a staple in modern. The other cards were not used in any format...
I always love these, but giving him Sheoldred after Siege Rhino was so smart! Really impressive how well he broke everything down. Can’t really hold the artifact against him, either, since neither YGO nor Hearthstone really has anything like them. Great episode!
@@aryst0krat I suppose that’s true. I had equated them more to enchantments, because that feels more like a 1:1. It’s really how different the mana system is and how that affects tempo that would likely be confusing to any player coming from YGO.
@@dagonhydra Yeah mana system confused him lil bit I think. In ygo, people usually gain immediate advantage by playing continous spell for whatever reason, then combo off. Magic probably can't do that because mana, so playing artifact with nothing else to back it up atm is a waste. Ain't no way ygo player playing continous spell and pass either, mind you.
I absolutely love this series! The next time this series appears, I would like to see a planeswalker as a card since it is pretty unique and see how they are evaluated by people who do not play magic
Love this series - I don't know if you've featured Escape to the Wilds on here yet, but it could be interesting to evaluate. Even though it's actually pretty weak in a vacuum, the exact role it played in the ramp decks of its time did get it banned from standard.
This series is soooo great! I can't believe how accurate Josh was in his analysis! It's so fun to see how transferable card game skills are even when the games seem completely different.
As an MtG player since quite literally 1993, I was extremely impressed with his ability to discern how certain mechanics function and methodically think his way through to the correct response 80% of the time. I would definitely enjoy more content like this!
This series is honestly incredible. I haven't played Magic for 20+ years, and I love guessing (incorrectly) about the power level of these cards. So fun!
I don't comment much, but watching Josh absolutely nail the analysis on these cards was incredible. First time seeing them and not just being kinda right, but just hit multiple points right on the head that even pros misread. I was cheering for him.
Thank you for making an exception and sharing your thoughts :) I was also completely blown away when editing this that the guy who has to ask what an artifact is analyzes MTG cards better than most MTG players! 🤯
I once played yugioh in a magical time around 2016 and played against Josh in the German Nationals, such a nice guy, really down to earth and amazing player. Great video 😍 I would love to see a staple or stinker with Alpay Engin.
The reasoning behind Siege Rhino that Joshua used reminded me of the reasoning that LSV did about it back in the day (you can see it in The Menace video that Rhystic Studies did). Players like Joshua could really excell at magic and i hope you have him back for future videos
Would have been interesting to see his analysis of an instant or sorcery. Definitely cool to hear him perfectly describe why siege rhino was good, but he obviously has experience in creature oriented card games
I love to see the comparison between Yugioh and Magic Knowledge in this one. Joshua did an amazing job and it really shows why he is such a good player, even over the borders of Yugioh. Resonates alot with me, coming from a Yugioh background.
I really love the staple or stinker vids, I'm not actively playing magic anymore but it's fun seeing people try and puzzle out if cards are good or not :D
Great video, I will say this about Dolmen Gate, in formats that tend to have a slower pace, like commander for example, it's not bad. But yeah, in a 1v1 scenario it does slow down aggro stuff a bit. Probably the hardest card to judge out of the bunch though.
One of the reasons this went so well is that Josh had an idea of what mana meant in terms of timing playing the card, and not knowing that has been unfair to other players. Consider, when someone asks about a mana cost, giving a simple explanation like the following: "Mana is usually gained by playing a land card, one per turn, so the rule of thumb is that you'll have 2 mana on turn 2, 3 mana on turn 3, etc., though some decks are built to get extra or have less."
Rewatching this again makes me realize how good Joshua Schmidt is at understanding cards in the context of the card games where they belong I actually would really love to watch another Staple or Stinker with him as the guest
Very cool! I think it’s really cool that top players from one game tend to be able to use their expert knowledge from what they know, and translate it to another game.
Wow, props to Josh! Great stuff. I feel like his knowledge of Legends of Runeterra and Hearthstone was probably very helpful. I didn't imagine a Yugioh player analyize this stuff so well. It's just such a different game.
to be a guy who haven't played magic he did an impressive job figuring out the cards now here's a shot to passing those mtg effects to ygo(you tell me how good they are) - Siege Rhino: If this card is Normal or Special Summoned; inflict 300 damage to your opponent, and if you do, gain 300 Lp. If this card attacks a Defense Position monster, inflict damage to your opponent equal to this card's ATK. - prophetic Flamespeaker: This card can attack up to two times during the Battle Phase. If this card deal damage to your opponent as a result of battle: Banish 1 card from the top of your Deck; activate the following effect depending on its type. ● Monster: Special Summon it. ● Spell Card: Activate that card. ● Trap Card: Set that card on your field, and if you do, it can be activated this turn. . If this card attacks a Defense Position monster, inflict damage to your opponent equal to this card's ATK. - Vinelasher Kudzu: Each time you activate a Field Spell; place 1 counter on this card(max 5). You can remove any number of counters from this card; send a number of Spell/Trap Cards from the field to the GY equal to the number of Counters removed. (i based that last effect on the flavor text of the card) - Dolmen Gate: Monsters you control cannot be destroyed in battle, also, you take no damage from battle involving those monsters this turn, but you cannot declare an attack with those monsters during the next Battle Phase. - Sheoldred, the Apocalypse: This card cannot be destroyed in battle. Any monster that battles this card is sent to the GY at the end of the Damage Step. Each time a card is added to the hand during the Draw Phase gain 200 Lp, and if you do, inflict 200 damage to your opponent
Most of em are kinda trash in nowdays standard sadly, the flame guy might see use tho....maybe. Effects based on Life / LP is hard to translate to YGO as LP not as important there compared ro magic. Tho if u raise burn dmg of siege rhino and sheoldred, like maybe 2k for rhino and 1k for sheoldred (amd remove draw phase restrcition of sheoldred to include cards drawn by card effect), then they porb will see some use in some FTK burn strategy. Dolmen kinda eh coz nowdays they can just pop it easily. Vinelasher at most in general will be just 1-2 cards removal at most coz most decks only play 1 kind of field spell anyway, just use harpie feather duster which can remove whole opp spell trap xD.
Just commenting after the siege rhino, i've played since revised and Josh nailed every single aspect of the card, pros and cons. His card evaluation skills are obscene.
These are so great! Love the reasoning behind Joshua's guesses. I said it last Staple or Stinker, I'd think that Adanto Vanguard would be great in this. It was in 1/3rd of the decks of the Standard Pro Tour for Guilds of Ravinca. By far the most played card. Aggro was ruling supreme, this was one of the staples. While still being an extremely low priced option at that as well. And this seems like a card that would be difficult to judge!
Adanto vanguard has already been added to the list of cards we take from when making these :) I feel like it's a little too easy though because it's so obviously powerful 🤔
it was incredibly impressive seeing someone who doesnt know how basic stuff like keywords and land distribution works analyze cards *incredibly* well. the though processes were spot on, barring the gate which isnt all that surprising due to how each tcg builds combat differently from the other
How the hell did he get sheoldred so perfectly spot on. What he said completely embodies my experience with this card. As a mono red agro player this card just makes me want to cry.
It has always amazed me that Siege Rhino is good. A three point drain life on a creature just looks like something you play in limited. I remember being excited about playing vinelash kudzu and returning bouncelands to always be able to trigger it. This never materialized. Doloman's Gate has been good as a second reconnisance in my Isshin deck. Being able to attack with creatures that have been outclassed to continue getting combat triggers has been worth a card. This doesn't make Gate a good card, but I am glad that it has a home. Never thought of Sheoldred as a Siege Rhino. What a cool parallel to draw.
Thanks for this. I will say, _Dolmen Gate_ can be great in an agro deck that cares about attack triggers over combat damage, stacking some _"for every attacking creature deal 1-2 damage to a player"_ effect and not losing any of your cheap creatures/tokens, can get out of hand.
Would be cool to see Pokémon players try this, I think the way Pokémon decks build around usually 1-2 energy types would make it hard to guess when you see a Magic card with 3-4 different mana colour costs. Robin Schulz or Igor Costa would be good to see on
I think a better way of describing Artifacts is: Continuous Spells that don't need to remain on field to resolve ETBs/Activated effects. Not like that would change his answer, but I think is the best way of describing it. Great video, and I love Josh's analysis being really on point. I wonder what would be his reaction to Oko, Elkmast... I mean... Oko, Thief of Crowns.
It's so cool to see just how good a pro player's card game fundamentals are in this show. I was also very impressed with the magic player rating Yugioh cards. I hope to see more of this :)
Impressive analysis for a non-Magic player. Also, Toffel is such a nice guy and great at explaining things, that he quickly climbed up the ladder as one of my favorite mtg pro's ever . :)
This was a good video :) Maybe should've explained the power creep that was going on in Standard though, because Sheoldred is just SO much better than most of the other cards because of that. And that did significantly impact the card design at the time.
Consistently impressed by how well these "never played magic" TCG players asses MTG cards. It would be really fun to see a show match between 2 prominent non-MTG TCG players, have Toralf there to answer questions, give them a few decks for options. Maybe let us see their reasoning as to why they pick the deck and their comparisons. I would really enjoy that! Great video as always!
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Find the cards listed in the video and buy them here: bit.ly/3XHMzFW
Josh: "I never played Magic!"
Also Josh: *explains Magic cards better than most players would do*
haha right...I think playing LoRT really helped. While different games with very different resource and combat systems, the stat lines per mana are pretty similar. LoRT is MTG if MTG had auto lands and every creature had vigilance and haste. But YuGiOh feels like a fundamentally different way of having a creature centric TCG.
@@mattm7798 My favorite way to describe yugioh is imagine you just played 4 turns each in 2 turns instead. It's a back and forth battle for board control and supremacy most of the time. This happens in other games, but you also spend like 4 turns doing basically minimal interactions (which is exactly how a yugioh turn starts out doing, effectively).
@@mattm7798 yeah 100%. old yugioh was *sorta* reminiscent of the pace of modern magic, but back then the design was so simple and the strategies so underdeveloped that no matter what era of yugioh you played, it is inevitably very difficult to transfer your game knowledge to magic. LoR and HS are muuuuch much more similar in comparison and a lot of the ways you would evaluate card strength in those games carry over almost entirely to mtg, with only some minor differences like color diversity and identity.
@@mattm7798 I'd just describe yugioh as.. vintage with no mulligan, and consistent burn decks are banned.
Probably why he is a good card player. 😆
I think this is my favorite staple or stinker so far. Josh really took his knowledge of other card games and applied it very well to magic. Would love to see him come back and try more cards!
Definite +1 on this one. Also how Josh took us through his thought process - absolutely impressive!
Agreed. He was great at analyzing the cards.
Yup, dude showed a lot of expertise
+1 had exactly the same feeling
yeah well deducted. I think Hearthstone tempo really translates well into magic tempo
Josh could have a promising Magic career in front of him if he ever decided to give it a try. The fact he went in knowing almost nothing about Magic and then proceeded to completely diagnose Siege Rhino on his game knowledge was hella impressive.
"how does combat work?" killed me after he diagnosed a few of the cards so well
@@elidwor1856 lol fair. To be fair understanding combat between games is weird with how different combat between yugioh and magic are
I think it's because of how anal yugioh is about wording that has helped him understand the intent of the card while also having played Hearthstone and Runeterra to understand the stats slightly better.
He became yugioh master duel world champion after your comment lmao
@@LeonIsLate I mean, he won 4 YCS in total and topped 40 events. He probably is one of the top3 yugioh players of all time. Guy certainly doesn't neeed a promising magic career
Holy crap, get this guy to do Magic set reviews because his analysis skills are better than 95% of Magic players.
For sure, there's a reason this guy's arguably the best western yugioh player
13:45
"If my opponent plays this on 4, i feel like i'm gonna leave the table"
That is so spot on it hurts x3
If only people just played her on 4... Much more common for it to come out turn 1 or 2 in legacy
@@professorgvd And if it's played on turn 4 it's instantly followed by wheel effects and similar to force card draw.
Commenting right after the Siege Rhino because holy shit that was an incredible analysis of a card for someone who had never played Magic. Bravo.
I found it so upsetting (in a good way) the whole time I was editing this! Like how does this one person who does not know what an artifact is assess magic cards better than the entire magic community 🤯 Josh is truly a master 👌
@SPAMisgood7 The burn
The only unfair part is he has to gamble on if a 4/5 for 4 is at least decent stats because he’s seeing it in a vacuum.
@@ThePigKnight i mean to a certain extent the vanilla test always exists and by that test it goes plus (albeit very marginally)
@@RMSLtnick sure but the point is more that he's unaware of the test to begin with. He's basing his knowledge of stats off other games, but magic could be significantly above or below rate compared to those for all he knows. Also there's the whole thing about having unlimited tokens, double blocking and all this other magic specific stuff he has no clue about.
Magic players: "Might see play once Polukranos rotates."
Person who has never played Magic: Thoroughly describes how each element of Siege Rhino contributes to its role in midrange decks.
Yeah, what really impressed me about this wasn't just "yeah this card is a very efficient, effect laden piece of kit" it was also "I can see this being core in these decks for this reason"
Sheoldred was also heavily underated by a lot of people including pros. And this guy just understands that it wins the game all by itself.
I feel like once you reach a high enough level in one tcg you cn usually have a decent enough understanding of any card game once you know the games main rules. Like I went to my first ever MTG event last weekend playing for the first time in a draft event where my only experience in a game similar is me being a top player in Eternal, which is like a baby MTG refugee center for ex Hearthstone players. I did ok for someone who'd never touched MTG before. I won 2 games out of 6.
@@saphired02 he just remembered all the bad memories of getting floodgates
@@saphired02 I've been out of magic for a while, and just a glace tells me that this card is wild. Solid blocker, tons of life swapping, a color that can easily bring it back, deathtouch in case they DO have a massive beater early, and a color that commonly includes efficient cards for draw that have a downside of life loss, which is entirely negated by her.
You can tell how much Thoralf is impressed by Josh's analysis of the cards. He definitely didn't expect him to be so spot-on. It's evident that Josh can quickly become a very skilled Magic player if he ever goes through the trouble of learning how to play.
Edit. - Great video! Please do more of these.
This series is definitely a Staple!
A lot of people saw the series during prerelease and thought it was absolutely too slow, but look at where it is now!
🤣 that's actually very funny!
@@CardmarketMagicon which complexity-basis do you choose the cards?
@Ziri lan we try to focus on cards that were either severely underated or overrated in their standard environment and to specifically select cards that can be evaluated without having to know of other cards (for example, splinter twin or Inverted of truth)
@@CardmarketMagic Tarmogoyf would fit that since it took pretty long for it to take off but that would probably too easy
Thinking about it, getting some pro players from other card games who have NEVER played magic to build decks and explain what they are thinking then fight each other would be hilarious. Though it is probably unlikely that any of them have literally never played at all but might still be fun
Damn that would be hella entertaining. Hope this comment travels to the top.
This is interesting idea, but with how much cards magic has this might be too complicated to pull off just because guest would need to learn so much to even know where to start building.
Maybe having constructed or draft with non magic pros would be good to hear they thought process. It could be a whole tournament event. Film video for each deck construction and each match + maybe even prizes at the end.
Or having certain pool of cards and guest having to figure out how to build the best deck out of that pool.
Holy crap that's genius. I hope someone does that at some point
@@cryptorcd9352 I think having them play draft would be nice since its a limited card pool so it wouldn't overwhelm them too much I think
Make em play sealed, less card pool, no format shenanigans, just have em Crack a booster box and make something g give em basics tho
I've been playing magic for 17 years, his analysis are better than mine... kudos
Yeah he was seriously impressive. I could not believe it the whole time editing, the guy who does not know what an artifact is is better at assessing magic cards than the whole magic community 😅
This is my favorite series you guys do. It's super interesting seeing how differently people from different card games evaluate cards
Definitely agree
same
My Favorite is the gameplay videos
Yup. I'd love to see players from as many other card games as possible show up here. I still think that 1 out of the 5 cards should be an intentional "bait" card that sees play in fringe decks, but has never seen *widespread* play. Shuko or Cephalid Illusionist are great examples of super strong combo pieces in a top tier legacy deck, but they're awful on their own without the very specific support they have within that deck. Telling the "challenger" that there's one bait card before they start and revealing their score at the END would lead to a lot of tension where they might be second guessing previous picks, or wanting to change their evaluation as they go.
I like how most Magic Pros were medium on Sheoldred when she was announced, but then Josh was able to figure out Sheoldred was a great card on the spot because Josh had figured out Siege Rhino was good less than ten minutes before seeing Sheoldred for the first time.
Magic pros are right to be skeptical of any big creature that doesn't do something the turn it drops until they can actually test it in the meta. Rhino at least always gets its ETB off. It's just that Sheoldred is insane if she sticks and, being a 4 mana 4/5, dodges enough cheap removal spells to be worth playing. Still, she's best when you've used cheaper threats and discard to ensure she gets time on the board.
Well there was no 'Medium' option here. He knew that the card was either great or bad. And I think most magic pros would figure out that Shelly should be playable at least.
@@MaSolSC2 it's also so context dependent which isn't a big part of these evaluations. MonoBlack or BlackX is INSANE right now and Shelly wouldn't be thought about as highly if the curve before and after was not so good and such a good fit. Yeah this is never a bad creature but the fact it is format defining in standard has a lot to do with other cards like Invoke, Trespasser or Lilli.
Yeah but 8 years of power creep.
Josh's analysis has always been crazy good, his deck profiles have always been on another level. And it's why he's 3 times YCS champion.
Oh wow seeing him immediately compare Sheoldred to Siege Rhino was impressive.
It’s also clear he thought about how common removal is in the game when comparing them because one is a trigger and one is etb.
That feel when a person who doesn't even play Magic recognizes power creep instantly.
@@ThePigKnight Well in yugioh parlance, both would be trigger effects, except Siege Rhino would be "When this card is summoned" while Sheoldred would be "When you/your opponent draws a card(s)".
@@MansMan42069 They are both triggered abilities in magic as well. Siege Rhino's is just referred to as an etb (enters the battlefield) ability for extra precision in description.
@@Blackmystix what's the spell speed on etb effects?
The more time that goes by the more I realize Thoralf is one of my favorite people. This whole channel is one of my favorites, the energy, even the production room has this cozy vibe and y'all just seem like a bunch of friends vibing out. Carl's sweaters go a long way too XD
Keep up the good work!
Thank you! That's very nice of you to say :)
Holy crap, Josh's analysis was so good he had me thinking he was lying and was secretly a magic pro 😂 love this guy, might actually get me to watch some yugioh content
I’d say go for it, he’s got some pretty chill streams. He’s pretty charming and analytic. He’s got a YT channel for analyzing cards, deck, and game states, but he’s not really a content creator like a full on Yugituber, but in terms of strategy game players I’d say Josh is probably among top 3 in the western Yu-GI-Oh player base right now.
His yugioh content is my favorite. He is very analytical there as well. It was hilarious how he was analyzing and explaining Magic cards so well, but wasn't sure how combat works 😂😂 He never fails to impress me.
The Siege Rhino and Sheoldred thing made me think it might be fun to do an adaptation where a yugioh player has to rank a cycle best to worst. Thinking the Titans would be a fun one to start
Ohhhh, that would be great!
Although I used to play competitive yugioh and have since moved to magic almost 7 years ago, Josh's knowledge and thought process behind his choices give me such respect to competitive yugioh players
"I wanna do more."
Yes! I'd love to see it, Josh's analysis of the cards based on his knowledge from other games is incredible, truly deserving of being called Europe's best YGO player in the title.
I love Josh's way of thinking. You can tell that he's very experienced in not only YGO, but card games in general. His only misevaluation comes from just not realizing in time that most aggro creatures are fodder but that's common even among Magic players.
Great video and amazing guest. I've never been this excited about a Staple or Stinker.
It's good that all the cards presented here are in the context of standard. Mixing formats of different power levels would be confusing to a new player.
I agree, but then why did he bring up fetchlands for kudzu? Fetches were never legal when kudzu was standard legal
Sheoldred is a staple in pioneer and explorer in mtgarena. There was also a time where Siege Rhino is a staple in modern. The other cards were not used in any format...
I always love these, but giving him Sheoldred after Siege Rhino was so smart! Really impressive how well he broke everything down. Can’t really hold the artifact against him, either, since neither YGO nor Hearthstone really has anything like them. Great episode!
Isn't an artifact pretty comparable to a Continuous Spell in YGO?
@@aryst0krat I suppose that’s true. I had equated them more to enchantments, because that feels more like a 1:1. It’s really how different the mana system is and how that affects tempo that would likely be confusing to any player coming from YGO.
@@dagonhydra Yeah mana system confused him lil bit I think. In ygo, people usually gain immediate advantage by playing continous spell for whatever reason, then combo off. Magic probably can't do that because mana, so playing artifact with nothing else to back it up atm is a waste. Ain't no way ygo player playing continous spell and pass either, mind you.
@@adewilyan8030 You underestimate how hard a generaider deck can brick
@@Aquilenne lmao good point
I'd like to see more of Josh playing staple or stinker! His thought process was spot-on
We actually just talked today about bringing him back
@@CardmarketMagic awesome!
I absolutely love this series! The next time this series appears, I would like to see a planeswalker as a card since it is pretty unique and see how they are evaluated by people who do not play magic
Dolmen Gate art becomes my new favourite wallpaper. Really beautiful picture.
Love this series - I don't know if you've featured Escape to the Wilds on here yet, but it could be interesting to evaluate. Even though it's actually pretty weak in a vacuum, the exact role it played in the ramp decks of its time did get it banned from standard.
Escape to the wilds is a great one! 😃
huh. i would've never guessed that it was banned
Escape was a meme card in its own deck until all the broken stuff got banned from standard and resolving it became good enough.
This series is soooo great! I can't believe how accurate Josh was in his analysis! It's so fun to see how transferable card game skills are even when the games seem completely different.
As an MtG player since quite literally 1993, I was extremely impressed with his ability to discern how certain mechanics function and methodically think his way through to the correct response 80% of the time. I would definitely enjoy more content like this!
Holy sh!t…
This dude is phenomenal. Bring him back for another couple of these videos
I like the touch of the battlefield showing Lorwyn cards during the Dolmen Gate sequence
This series is honestly incredible. I haven't played Magic for 20+ years, and I love guessing (incorrectly) about the power level of these cards. So fun!
I don't comment much, but watching Josh absolutely nail the analysis on these cards was incredible. First time seeing them and not just being kinda right, but just hit multiple points right on the head that even pros misread. I was cheering for him.
Thank you for making an exception and sharing your thoughts :) I was also completely blown away when editing this that the guy who has to ask what an artifact is analyzes MTG cards better than most MTG players! 🤯
Josh's analysis was a delight to listen to. More of him, please!
Congrats to Joshua for winning Yu-Gi-Oh Master duel world championship, would love to see an interview with him on the Yugiohc cardmarket channel😎
We'll be posting an interview with him on our article insight page :)
Joshua nailed it. very cool to see a non magic player recognize some of these values. yall run a great channel, love the content!!!
I once played yugioh in a magical time around 2016 and played against Josh in the German Nationals, such a nice guy, really down to earth and amazing player. Great video 😍 I would love to see a staple or stinker with Alpay Engin.
Josh has a very special brain. Absolutely brilliant. Love his ygo and content and seeing him slay this made me smile big!
Siege Rhino will probably see play when Polukranos rotates
Yeah its rough that it got printed into a standard format with such a definingly powerful 4-drop already there ;p
Josh didn't even fall for the red herring thrown at him with the fetch lands and Vinelasher Kudzu. Well done!
This is the best series you guys are doing! Love the format.
The AI Generated card series is the best, but this is a close second :)
This dude’s brain is conditioned for games I’m sure he could take to almost anything immediately.
Super impressive
I'm glad I found yalls channel. You make the most entertaining and largest variety of magic content!
PS: Thoralf is a great host!
Thank you! 😃 and indeed, thoralf is a great host!
The reasoning behind Siege Rhino that Joshua used reminded me of the reasoning that LSV did about it back in the day (you can see it in The Menace video that Rhystic Studies did). Players like Joshua could really excell at magic and i hope you have him back for future videos
It’s incredible how he even talks like a magic player
Josh is awesome! So smart and great at explaining his thought process!
TIL Sheoldred is just modern day Siege Rhino and I feel stupid for not realizing that sooner.
Would have been interesting to see his analysis of an instant or sorcery. Definitely cool to hear him perfectly describe why siege rhino was good, but he obviously has experience in creature oriented card games
The methodical assessments by Josh here were very impressive! Great episode!
I love to see the comparison between Yugioh and Magic Knowledge in this one. Joshua did an amazing job and it really shows why he is such a good player, even over the borders of Yugioh. Resonates alot with me, coming from a Yugioh background.
Such fantastic staff, but I’m especially a fan of Thoralf because of his incredible Magic knowledge and absolute charm!
Josh handled this impressively. Very analytical and in the end spot on
Siege rhino to sheoldred, painting a portrait of subtle power creep through the years. Excellent choices like this is why i love this series.
I really love the staple or stinker vids, I'm not actively playing magic anymore but it's fun seeing people try and puzzle out if cards are good or not :D
Video idea: Card Swap
Magic and Yugioh players pick one card from their respective games and translate them into the other game.
Great video, I will say this about Dolmen Gate, in formats that tend to have a slower pace, like commander for example, it's not bad. But yeah, in a 1v1 scenario it does slow down aggro stuff a bit.
Probably the hardest card to judge out of the bunch though.
been watching and loving this series the past few days, didn't realize this one dropped 3 hours ago! need more please!!
Would love too see people on the stinker or not series try a game of magic. As a player of 3 tcgs the dofference is shocking.
One of the reasons this went so well is that Josh had an idea of what mana meant in terms of timing playing the card, and not knowing that has been unfair to other players.
Consider, when someone asks about a mana cost, giving a simple explanation like the following: "Mana is usually gained by playing a land card, one per turn, so the rule of thumb is that you'll have 2 mana on turn 2, 3 mana on turn 3, etc., though some decks are built to get extra or have less."
"I feel like if my opponent plays this on 4, I'm just gonna leave the table"....I laughed hard.
Rewatching this again makes me realize how good Joshua Schmidt is at understanding cards in the context of the card games where they belong
I actually would really love to watch another Staple or Stinker with him as the guest
bro really just saw siege rhino and basically extrapolated the entire game of magic just from the breakdown of one card. unreal
I love videos like these because I've played both games and they are vastly different. Especially the terms...and font.
Very cool! I think it’s really cool that top players from one game tend to be able to use their expert knowledge from what they know, and translate it to another game.
lovely episode, josh is awesome and is good in his argumentation. liked this one alot!
Love this series. As a beginner in mtg I find this to be a great introduction how the game works and tips for evaluating cards
Josh would be amazing at Magic. Very intelligent with his thought processes.
Incredible! Great analysis (and banter as always). Would love to see josh back and tackle some really weird vintage cards!
if josh would starts play magic he would be the best player in eu in few months :)... it's incredible how fast he understands the game.!
Wow, props to Josh! Great stuff.
I feel like his knowledge of Legends of Runeterra and Hearthstone was probably very helpful. I didn't imagine a Yugioh player analyize this stuff so well.
It's just such a different game.
That was some slick analysis, he understands these kinds of games very well. Very fun and impressive to watch!
to be a guy who haven't played magic he did an impressive job figuring out the cards
now here's a shot to passing those mtg effects to ygo(you tell me how good they are)
- Siege Rhino: If this card is Normal or Special Summoned; inflict 300 damage to your opponent, and if you do, gain 300 Lp. If this card attacks a Defense Position monster, inflict damage to your opponent equal to this card's ATK.
- prophetic Flamespeaker: This card can attack up to two times during the Battle Phase. If this card deal damage to your opponent as a result of battle: Banish 1 card from the top of your Deck; activate the following effect depending on its type.
● Monster: Special Summon it.
● Spell Card: Activate that card.
● Trap Card: Set that card on your field, and if you do, it can be activated this turn.
. If this card attacks a Defense Position monster, inflict damage to your opponent equal to this card's ATK.
- Vinelasher Kudzu: Each time you activate a Field Spell; place 1 counter on this card(max 5). You can remove any number of counters from this card; send a number of Spell/Trap Cards from the field to the GY equal to the number of Counters removed.
(i based that last effect on the flavor text of the card)
- Dolmen Gate: Monsters you control cannot be destroyed in battle, also, you take no damage from battle involving those monsters this turn, but you cannot declare an attack with those monsters during the next Battle Phase.
- Sheoldred, the Apocalypse: This card cannot be destroyed in battle. Any monster that battles this card is sent to the GY at the end of the Damage Step. Each time a card is added to the hand during the Draw Phase gain 200 Lp, and if you do, inflict 200 damage to your opponent
Most of em are kinda trash in nowdays standard sadly, the flame guy might see use tho....maybe.
Effects based on Life / LP is hard to translate to YGO as LP not as important there compared ro magic. Tho if u raise burn dmg of siege rhino and sheoldred, like maybe 2k for rhino and 1k for sheoldred (amd remove draw phase restrcition of sheoldred to include cards drawn by card effect), then they porb will see some use in some FTK burn strategy.
Dolmen kinda eh coz nowdays they can just pop it easily. Vinelasher at most in general will be just 1-2 cards removal at most coz most decks only play 1 kind of field spell anyway, just use harpie feather duster which can remove whole opp spell trap xD.
@@invertbrid yeah that's true XD
tbh translate mtg effects to ygo it's quite a hassle due the different mechanics XD
Just commenting after the siege rhino, i've played since revised and Josh nailed every single aspect of the card, pros and cons.
His card evaluation skills are obscene.
Outstanding! Well sound and resoned thoughtprocess by Josh and great at sharing it too!
These are so great! Love the reasoning behind Joshua's guesses. I said it last Staple or Stinker, I'd think that Adanto Vanguard would be great in this. It was in 1/3rd of the decks of the Standard Pro Tour for Guilds of Ravinca. By far the most played card. Aggro was ruling supreme, this was one of the staples. While still being an extremely low priced option at that as well. And this seems like a card that would be difficult to judge!
Adanto vanguard has already been added to the list of cards we take from when making these :) I feel like it's a little too easy though because it's so obviously powerful 🤔
I love how Thoralf pronounces the exclamation mark in “Yugioh!”
it was incredibly impressive seeing someone who doesnt know how basic stuff like keywords and land distribution works analyze cards *incredibly* well. the though processes were spot on, barring the gate which isnt all that surprising due to how each tcg builds combat differently from the other
I really love this series! Always fun to see MTG through the lens of another game
How the hell did he get sheoldred so perfectly spot on. What he said completely embodies my experience with this card. As a mono red agro player this card just makes me want to cry.
It has always amazed me that Siege Rhino is good. A three point drain life on a creature just looks like something you play in limited.
I remember being excited about playing vinelash kudzu and returning bouncelands to always be able to trigger it. This never materialized.
Doloman's Gate has been good as a second reconnisance in my Isshin deck. Being able to attack with creatures that have been outclassed to continue getting combat triggers has been worth a card. This doesn't make Gate a good card, but I am glad that it has a home.
Never thought of Sheoldred as a Siege Rhino. What a cool parallel to draw.
Thank you for sharing your opinions on the cards :)
As everyone else said, the analysis of the cards, expecially rhino's were incredible for a person that never played magic! Amazing video!
Thanks for this.
I will say, _Dolmen Gate_ can be great in an agro deck that cares about attack triggers over combat damage, stacking some _"for every attacking creature deal 1-2 damage to a player"_ effect and not losing any of your cheap creatures/tokens, can get out of hand.
Absolutely loved the guest this episode! Very good analysis, would love to see him back against a new set of cards
Best episode yet
Get this man a magic deck.
Would be cool to see Pokémon players try this, I think the way Pokémon decks build around usually 1-2 energy types would make it hard to guess when you see a Magic card with 3-4 different mana colour costs.
Robin Schulz or Igor Costa would be good to see on
imagine josh as a MTG player! he has such a good analytic for the cards, i m so impressed !!
I think a better way of describing Artifacts is: Continuous Spells that don't need to remain on field to resolve ETBs/Activated effects. Not like that would change his answer, but I think is the best way of describing it.
Great video, and I love Josh's analysis being really on point. I wonder what would be his reaction to Oko, Elkmast... I mean... Oko, Thief of Crowns.
I love it when you do this series. Easily my favourite out of all the ones you do. I wonder what would happen with players from other TCGs?
As an aggro player I've definitely had to scoop from just Sheoldred existing, hilarious he was able to understand it was THAT good
I played magic for four years now but I steel feel proud whenever I get the staple or stinker right :)
I love how good pros are at figuring out the quality of cards in a game they don’t even know. This was fun to watch
I don't know this dude but I can safely say that he is a Staple in Yu Gi Oh by the sound logic he has when he thinks.
You are absolutely correct, easily one of the top 3 players in the west rn.
I enjoyed this one so much! I wish it was 10 or more cards haha
Hope to see more vids with Joshua
It's so cool to see just how good a pro player's card game fundamentals are in this show. I was also very impressed with the magic player rating Yugioh cards. I hope to see more of this :)
I love how new players inevitably have that "player deathtouch" question
Impressive analysis for a non-Magic player. Also, Toffel is such a nice guy and great at explaining things, that he quickly climbed up the ladder as one of my favorite mtg pro's ever . :)
This was a good video :) Maybe should've explained the power creep that was going on in Standard though, because Sheoldred is just SO much better than most of the other cards because of that. And that did significantly impact the card design at the time.
Josh's analysis of Seige Rhino was, frankly, impeccable.
Consistently impressed by how well these "never played magic" TCG players asses MTG cards.
It would be really fun to see a show match between 2 prominent non-MTG TCG players, have Toralf there to answer questions, give them a few decks for options. Maybe let us see their reasoning as to why they pick the deck and their comparisons. I would really enjoy that!
Great video as always!
Sounds like pretty cool idea