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Is More Than 60 FPS on a 60 Hz Monitor Better?
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- Опубліковано 31 лип 2018
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How Many Frames Per Second Do You Need?
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Should mention that while I showed in this video that Vsync could add at least 16.7ms of latency, the real figure is more than 50ms due to a variety of reasons I didn't go into for simplicity
From 16.7 to 50ms? Thats a huge difference
I'm very confused by this video. Correct me if i'm reading it wrong: is your graph showing that any input command will tied into monitor refresh rate with Vsync ON? and will be left freely with Vsync OFF ?.
That is correct, Hardware Unboxed.
When I played certain games, like Mass Effect 2/3 (by changing an .ini file) and Deus Ex HR I immediately noticed the added input lag, it anoyed me so much that I immediately quit playing it and disabled VSync and yes, after that the game ran a lot smoother. You mostly notice it when you move the mouse, the change of the camera on the monitor lags a lot. You can easily tell that the input lag is considerably more than double compared to when VSync is disabled. Apparently 1/20th to 1/10th of a second is quite noticeable for humans, I know that for out of sync sound even less than 10 ms. is noticeable. Give me FreeSync: no tearing and not much added input lag.
You did kind of explain why it more than 50 ms instead of 16.7 ms but it would be nice if you would be more elaborate on that part, it is the most interesting: the entire pipeline.
I also can confirm out of experience that 85 FPS runs better on a 60 Hz monitor than 60 FPS for the same game. You really do notice that it is more smooth. For example, I used to play Borderlands2 with Fraps on to test out PhysX (AMD card, PhysX via CPU by 'hacking' a file).
It's complicated by the fact that the system is still rendering those extra frames then it has to sort out the frames it's actually going to use so there's an increase in latency due to the frame sorting that occurs.
Made an 11 minutes long video and gave the answer in the first minute and let you decide if you want the explanation or not?
Am I even on UA-cam???
im not watching the video but i let it on so he gets some watchtime
he really deserves that
very amazing
Dark Matt'erZ people like u should get an award
Many creators focus on videos for Patreon now, so could be the reason why it's formatted like that. I think some channels like LTT make different cuts of the same video for Floatplane and UA-cam with maybe few differences in flow/format to suit their click baity titles on UA-cam but not every creator would spend time on something like that, which maybe why this video gets straight to the point? Even sponsor spots on HU, JayZ are usually way better, tolerable and also informative and enjoyable even compared to LTT so it can be digested by paying customers even if these channels leave it in.
The human eye can't see above 3 CPU cores.
Jarrod'sTech like a damn person can see the core at all....duh
Ramadhan Rifaat
----->The JOKE
.
.
>YOUR HEAD
Kushagra Juneja
my joke --------------------->
u...
Jarrod'sTech thats why i have a 3 core phenom.
r/ wooosh except twice
i overclocked my monitor to 32inches.
I overclocked my gaming chair to 6,5ghz on all 64 cores
@@widowmakerx7 It doesn't work that way, but you can always use RGB ;)
@@hades6933 LOL xD
@@xtraucox had no choice, it was so small I sometimes couldn't find it. So now I just use a remote to turn the RGB on and boom. I can now use my penis when I please.
This one got me😂🤣
The human eye can see 10 more fps when your system contains RGB
Is this a joke?
Popcycle well if u got ran in ur pc u prolly get good FPS cuz that shits prolly new
Popcycle no he’s being serious... fucking moron
@@ruufiss9922 "got ran" what in the hell does that mean lmao. Even if it's a joke that still confuses me.
@@plasmaoctopus1728 ram*
Imagine going back in time 1000 yrs and showing this video to someone from medieval times.
They will execute u there m8
witchcraft wasn't something taken lightly back then
I feel like that medieval dude trying to process this info
Coronavirus is here guys, no 1000years
I'm sure they had 340fps gaming back then
i once watercooled my wife.
Ooof ooof k goodnight
I once waterboarded...
Uhhh
Dafuq?
So hot your wife
Give a pic
In messenger😉
After watching this I now feel refreshed.
Good for you mate. To me, it just hertz. 💀
hlakbr lighthouse lmaoo 😂🤣
Underrated joke
I feel a bottle on my neck!
Lmao i read this underclock
Finally, an accurate explanation of how the v-sync actually works. Thanks for doing some research on this and not just telling us your own opinion, like 99% of other explanations!
Downloaded some refresh rate for my 60hz monitor, it’s now running 240hz
William Peng the link please
William Peng yes lol
The link
T H E L I N K
@@ghawkins7106 www.refreshrate.com
Yes! A youtuber that tells us the reason at the beginning! Then explains!!
He meant that backwards
Nicholas Baker No he didn’t. He gave the reason early on.
He explained first then gave the reasons for his explanation
Nicholas Baker 135 likes suggests otherwise.
@@nickolagi bruh just stfu
answer is in the start without bulshit, you got my like sir
Still so many retards have disliked this video
Holy crap, I was just talking to u guys in the comments the other day about this. Now you've made a video about it, this is why you guys are awesome!
DarkReturns yea they mentioned this video coming months ago from my recollection.
No shout out though
JayP Tek where's Steve? He's pay off the team right
Yeah buddy, you're the chosen one. They made this video all because of you buddy! Congrats!! 👏
*We're not worthy, we're not worthy*
"How many frames per second do you need?"
"All of them!"
Me : YES
This is the only correct answer.
1,000(there's no dot)fps is enough.
@@laos85 1000 fps is a bit extreme dont you think? even with my 2080 i get 400-600 on most games
@@mikethepublisher7910 human's eyes can detect 1,000 frame per seconds max so that is all we need.
Really interesting video. Personally, I'll take the (for me) barely noticeable lag over tearing any day. I'll give enhanced sync a try though, I didn't realize that's an alternative to freesync.
yea i can't stand tearing it's really distracting
@@jebus456 breaks the immersion
Thank you so much for just giving the answer at the beginning, I'm going to watch the whole video but I sincerely appreciated it just being said flat out at the beginning. Subscribed
The Human eye can only see *4GB RAM*
Not if you got 64bit eyesight
Your Pc requires more ram if you can only see 4.
it can see 16 GB of ram easily !!!!
But only in single channel.
And all this time we have been downloading ram for nothing...
As a non-English-speaking person I’m sometimes having a hard time keeping up with what is being said, however from what I‘ve understood I can say this explanation is very educational and interesting. Keep up the good work!
Your punctuation is still better than mine tho 😂
Same here, lol..
Worry cus hard is English
@@gqld1001 yies
In short: Yes more then 60 fps is better on 60 hz display, because the image renderd on your 60 hz screen will be a more actual image the higher the fps.
i always match my lag with my fps
works wonders in CS xD
Jo
a more 'recent' image
No. Screen tearing will lower your performance
@@chrissouthall411 lol
Ok, that video is unfortunately is heavily mistaken. Please take a deep breath and read my slightly long comment here.
Every single digital game in this universe has the same basic principle; a "game loop". It has 3 stages.
1) gather user inputs
2) Update AI and advance game time
3) Create the relevant frame and sounds.
If you are playing a DOS era game, all these are executed in the same core with this order. Because, all 3 stages are glued to each other. The problem is, the game can only capture user input at stage 1, other inputs are ignored. That's the old story.
Now, OSs have their own loops and input capturing systems and the games work on top of the Operating Systems, not talking to the hardware directly (they talk throguh drivers). The OS collects and saves the inputs for the game. Plus, game loop stages are seperated. Stage 1 and 2 operate together and don't have to wait for stage 3. Simply, stage 1 and 2 are executed even though there isn't a stage 3 execution. That means, inputs are collected and game time, game AI, game locig are still advanced even though their frames weren't created/updated fast enough. In other words, game is updating, only we can't "see" it :)
When V-Sync or a frame limiter caps frame rate to a specific value, stage 1 and 2 are still advancing, only stage 3 is put on wait. This is why the graphics are not accurate in this video. This graph with the V-Sync on acts like all the game is put on hold till the next screen refresh time and your inputs are not collected. That is not correct. Even if you have an input as close as 1ms to the next refresh period, it will be taken into account and the next frame will be prepared including your input.
The problem with the V-Sync is not about collecting inputs and advancing the game time. The problem is, V-Sync prepares the frames and then collects them into a buffer memory, instead of directly sending them to the screen. A regular V-Sync collects 3 frames and only sends the oldest frame to the screen after it gets the 4th frame. So, what you see on the screen is actually was created 3.5 frames ago. This buffer memory ruins things. And this is why people actually hate V-Sync on competitive plays.
BTW, some people claim that if -say- you fire a gun and there is a shootable object going in front of you, and somehow the path crossing of the bullet and the object is missed due to the insufficient number of frames calculated because the GPU or CPU were simply not powerful enough, then the hit will not be registered. That is not correct, a game AI and Logic calculation stage (stage 2) takes into account what happened since the last time and it also calculates what have happened "between frames".
The only competitive game that doesn't make such a hit reg calculation and has the potential to miss your target if your frame rate is not enough is Counter Strike. Every other millions of games in the universe can take into account what happened between two frames and calculate everything independently from frame rate.
So, what you need:
1) If you have the money get a Freesync/G-Sync monitor.
2) If you want to play V-Sync on, use a frame limiter and stay below screen Hz. When under screen Hz, V-Sync doesn't collect frames to a buffer, it sends them to the screen directly. For example, a 59FPS cap on a 60Hz screen with V-Sync on will roughly give 2 frames of input latency, that is 33.33ms.
3) If you are playing Team Fortress or CS, try to keep it at 240-250 Hz steady. That shouldn't be too hard considering how old these games are. For every other game, stay slightly under screen Hz, or play V-Sync off.
9:55 for conclusion
Thank you
thanks
Thanks
Funfact i dont get the conclusion. So techinally its good to have fps exceed refresh or?
@@icebear1342 yes. But it may cause tearing. Technically speaking, you will feel the same "smoothness" when comparing 60 fps to say 90 fps in 60 hz. The difference is that in higher fps, it will provide some benefit such as reduced input lag etc. To conclude, you can only see the smoothness of 60 fps in 60hz if that makes sense. In higher refresh rate say 144hz, you are able to feel the smoothness up to 144fps. Even moving the cursor felt buttery smooth.
3 minutes in and now i truly understand why screen tearing happens. Great explanation. looking forward to the rest
The game where you experience the most screen tearing is obviously CSGO
Yep lol
@Elijah Ken tearing
Lmfao if you turn on vsync it's completely unplayable experience, everything is just too slow.
Lol and this is exactly what he said
I have a 60 hz panel so when i turn vsync on i cant aim at all in cs go... But after turning off its better fps and better experience.. so refreh rate and fps no relation...
Thanks for this video. I always got very mixed reactions when recommending high fps even on low-hz monitors for fast-pacing, competitive games. So, depending on the kind of games you play, running games on much higher fps than your monitor can show, gives you an advantage. If you play 1P/3P Action-Adventures or RPGs go for visuals, if you play 1P online shooters, racing games etc push your fps as high as possible.
I can't stand tearing and I hate input lag. Kill me now.
240hz display basically renders all of this a non issue. Although wallet tearing and income stuttering are potential side effects.
I use fastsync, tim talked about in the video.
I have a gsync monitor with an isp panel so it's 4ms response time but with the gsync hardware U avoid the input lag produced from vsync so it balances itself out
M. V. Shooting get ready to pay a lot
Yeah, flexable refresh rate would be the best solution.
Some cheap alternatives to try: either "adaptive vsync" (it holds vsync aslong as FPS>Hz, and runs without vsync if FPS
Great breakdown. Screen tearing and vsync input lag drove me nuts for years. Then I upgraded to a 144hz freesync monitor and I've had a buttery smooth gaming experience since. In my opinion adaptive sync is one of the best advancements in gaming technology. I just wish I would have discovered it earlier.
I have to recognize that I consider the input lag of the gpu far from being as bad as screen tearing. With Vsync and a serious enough gpu then you are exploiting the maximum capacity of your monitor without having an image that makes less sense for giving informations than a slightly delayed but clean picture
I finally understand tearing and VSync fully now, thanks for explaining so well!
@QUAD849 nah limiting ur fps will cause input lag. I tried.
@QUAD849 I used fps limiter and never got input lag. Believe me it's better thank v sync.
@QUAD849 But isn't vsync limiting my framerates? I can't go over my monitor's refresh rate with vsync, so it's also limiting my framerate.
V sync basically just syncs your gpu to the refresh rate of the monitor,so if you have a 60hz monitor but your gpu does over 120fps,you can either stick to 60hz or turn vsync off for faster reflexes.
There is an interesting tool called Special K, that can drastically decrease the input delay.
1. It has a function called Latent sync, which caps the framerate to your refresh rate but is actually Vsync off, moving the tearline to the very top/bottom of your screen, making it unnoticeable. So effectively it looks like Vsync on, but has the latency of Vsync off.
It also supports an input bias, so instead of rendering a frame and then waiting for the next refresh, it waits first and then renders in time for the next refresh, basically removing the input penalty from capping your frame rate.
Lastly it can also inject Nvidia Reflex into games, reducing the render queue to decrease input delay further.
Does this gives more fps on a 60hz monitor?
@@roelflotriet4331 Latent Sync caps the frame rate at your monitors refresh rate (or a fraction of it) just like vSync.
But due to how it's done, it can give you the same input latency as higher frame rates.
@@drunkhusband6257 This is completely different from VRR.
This is designed to reduce latency on non VRR displays (or when using black frame insertion which is incompatible with VRR).
G-Sync also doesn't feature any input bias.
My monitor has 144hz but I usually download 20hz every night
Say what
@@ShaneStanley109 what
Eh?
should i r/whoosh the comments ?
@@metameow1 no no no
The problem is that screen tearing on a 60hz monitor makes 60 fps look like 30
For competitive games: always vsync off
Non-competitive games: vsync on
i play the same way. In league of legends i let my 1080ti gimmie that 200fps with no vsync, but in ac odyssey i gatta have vsync on, otherwise i might as well play on console like a pleb and bring shame to my family.
@Jonathan Soko nope i agree because withourt vsync it doesnt feel as smooth
I would say fast or enhanced sync for competition. Artifacts can easily cause you to miss a shot in a twitch fps.
I would say no sync is best sync, even in casual, single player games - just get decent hardware.
@@zatozatoichi7920 v sync in control panel works best for me
If I had a dollar for every time you said "display"
You just might be able to buy a scalped 3090!
Discovering fast sync was a game changer for me, works great specially on titles like dirt Rally 2.0
Thats such a good video. Very good explained on how these features work. Great job!
This video is pure gold...😍
Keep up the good work..HUB..
Thanks Vinay, appreciate it.
"Welcome back to Hardware on box" UA-cam will NEVER get your name right
Joking aside, GREAT VIDEO
love u for answering this straight up in the beginning. props :D
I HIGHLY recommend fast-sync for very fast paced games that run over your refresh rate. I mostly use it in rhythm games, where the difference between 120hz and 120hz + fast sync is as large as 120hz and 30hz: it elimates any and all tearing and makes notes far easier to read at high bpm.
are you an osu! player? How would I enable fast sync in osu?
Aye, osu! is the game I use it in primarily. You're gonna have to do it from the Nvidia control panel. go to 3d settings, then select program settings from there. you should be able to choose osu! from the drop down list, but if it doesn't show up, you can just add it. the option for fast sync appears under "vertical sync" all the way at the bottom. alternatively you can just make it a global setting, but i'm not sure how that will work for some games.
Well, I always disable any type of vsync in osu. Usually the game runs at 800 fps with background video and above 1000 fps without. Strangely, I never notice any tearing on my 144Hz monitor. (Maybe I suck and can only play easy maps? I usually play at 4-5 stars though)
Oh, I have no issues running the game. But it most certainly tears running above my monitor's refresh rate, at least in Mania mode. personally i'm still waiting on the price of 240Hz monitors to come down to help alleviate it further, but it's definitely there. I generally only play 2-low 4 star maps, but all the maps i play are over 220 BPM, so the note move very quickly, and that's how i've come to notice the difference.
Oh, I see. I only play the standard osu mode and taiko mode. Tearing is not noticeable at least in those modes.
I'm glad Steve cracked the wip during Q&A and you got to work on this video.. Finally, I understand vsync latency. Have had it explained before but it went straight over my head. Great vid 9/10 would bang
What mean?
Heyyy explain fast sync
Like Tim showed, FastSync (or AMD EnhancedSync) uses three buffers instead of two; GPU renders frame to buffer 3, moves it to buffer 2 when completed, and monitor swaps that into buffer 1 on each monitor refresh. So if GPU can render 2½ times as fast as the monitor, it won't have to wait idle for the monitor to swap buffers any more. Buffer 2 will be much more recent than without FastSync/EnhancedSync but is still a complete frame, meaning less input to display lag and no screen tearing, giving a smoother experience. Also if your GPU cannot keep up with your monitor, FastSync/EnhancedSync will simply let your monitor pull latest incomplete frame from buffer 3 directly to its buffer 1 (gives screen tearing but less input lag).
Oh, you were probably joking on second reading :P oh well, still a good brief synopsis of Fast/Enhanced Sync I guess :) might also be interested in RTSS RivaTuner tool's scanline sync function, which tries to shift the screen tearing line to the bottom or top of your monitor so it's less noticeable; then you can disable Vsync or FastSync/EnhancedSync entirely :)
"That's the answer to the question to those who don't want to wait"
I applaud you!
I really appreciate this guy telling me what I wanted to know in under a minute and not making me wait till the end of the video cheers mate
Really great Video! Informative and well illustrated.
I love your Lego Star Wars colection. I used to collect them too with my cousin, sadly he's not with us anymore.
When a NASA Engineer loses his Job...
Edit - You deserve a Sub for all that Work :)
Sam a. 😂😂😂
@QUAD849 Actually you are slightly wrong here. More fps= Less input lag. So a higher fps is beneficial for competitive games such as csgo where every millisecond of latency counts.
Yor dad is my girlfriend
i have played 5-6 years on 60hz 60 fps(as a kid) until i find out that playing 100+ fps on my monitor removed any input lag with or without vsync on or any other technology, for me feels like heaven only by changing capped fps
Same. Running 300 fps instead of 75 hz on 60 hz monitor is a huge difference in valorant! Finally won my first deathmatch first try
Lol, ask an console gamer and apparently 30fps is more than enough.
It's enough for good games. Crazy low latency is only relevant for bad who's-got-the-faster-jerking-reflexes type of games. But who gets enjoyment out of sitting in front of a screen like a zombie and just jerking at the first indication of something moving, right?
SCARLET★STAR I don't know man, so many excellent games have been ruined by the choice to go for half refresh rate. I'm not even talking about going for 144hz, just 60hz should be the minimum for something to be considered a playable game.
I can't believe people like Scarlett exist, fast paced games are extremely popular and fun. I can say from experience from playing in CSGO eSports for a small time and I enjoyed every minute of it. Just look at the top games on twitch, a lot of them are fast paced. And even games like 7 days to die which are more slow and methodical feel 10x better with at least 60FPS (pls optimize that game)
RoseWolfz Prime 30fps is unplayable in almost every game.
30 is okay on a TV for me. With a monitor the chopiness is way too obvious
- There will always be screen tearing unless some sort of synchronization technology is being used.
- Capping the fps below the screen refresh rate doesn't fix screen tearing but rather makes it worse
- The higher the fps the less obvious screen tearing becomes and the more responsive inputs become.
- for FPS games, cap your fps to the highest average fps your CPU can maintain. for other games, use V or Fast sync.
- if you're one of those people who don't feel the advantage when they uncap their fps, I recommend sticking to v-sync cause I don't think you will feel the input lag anyway.
Read this if you want a flawless experience. It's possible to entirely remove the downside of V-Sync and be bound to the refresh rate itself.
steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=668808553
I don't want to sound like crazy, but i didn't had any tearing in most games on my old 2008 samsung T220 monitor, i moved to a new Samsung SF350 and i started to have noticeable tearing on games (gladly this monitor has Freesync so that solved the issue) but still it's weird
Shao Zapomni If you cap your framerate below your refresh rate, you are dropping frames every second, by design. That is not a flawless experience for people who do not want any dropped frames whatsoever. Go away with your snake oil BS.
Dude, did you even read the post? that post basically tells how to use v-sync without the typical huge input lag trade-off, which is the ''flawless experience'' he's talking about.
SirSmokeALeet Oh hey it's you mister trying to imply something without actual evidence.
Must be snake oil to provide live facts. I'll just throw it back at you and everyone else to see.
ua-cam.com/video/w4KNmaWN_Qs/v-deo.html
And also anybody else that had actually the proper understanding to begin with reported expected results, what can you do aside using your words? Listening to the people who tries to sell you things? Quite sad, I just want you to prove me wrong but you aren't able to because you are most likely wrong yourself. No evidence, no facts.
Nice explanation into how V-Sync works. I would have liked to see how these numbers play into the context of human perception and response times, considering that super human visual reaction times are around 200ms (elite gamers and F1 drivers) while more average gamers tend to lag above 300ms.
Search for - Does High FPS make you a better gamer? Ft. Shroud - FINAL ANSWER
So anywhere above 60 (or monitors Hz), is good enough for a non competitive game play. Gotcha.
Interesting video, Tim. I had never given much thought to this question. Really loving the new 'science'-focused videos. It's like GN's content.
"How gpu and display work together to send frames into your eyeballs" this had me in stitches 😂
more fps than your monitor can display is always nice for better input latency. The maximum fps your system can produce does not always mean the least input latency because in many games if the gpu is maxed out at 100% load the render latency actually increases so that the total latency can also increase with more fps. You can show the render latency on the nvidia performance overlay (alt + R).
In Diabotical with uncapped FPS i get 200 fps and the render latency is 6ms so a total delay from fps and gpu of up to (1000/200)ms + 6ms = 11ms.
If i cap my fps at 180 the render latency decreases to 4.5ms so the total delay from fps and gpu is up to (1000/180)ms + 4.5ms = 10ms. Thats 1ms lower latency although the fps is lower.
By caping my FPS and making the GPU run at about 90% load i actually get lower input latency.
In other games like overwatch this was apparently a lot worse until nvidia ultra low latency came out. But its nice that nvidia now released the performance overlay so we can see for ourselves what settings are best for latency in any game and don't have to rely on feeling.
Moral of the story.....
More RGB more frames
Mishaal Dawnak Factually accurate
Thought it was gaming chair equals more franes but idk
Team Static gaming chairs make you better at games
@@hajmardi3658 actually faccurate
Very good video Tim! :)
9:55
Thank me later
Thx
Ty
For what? Skipping the entire point of the video?
@@TheGodEmperorOfMankind_ most of us dont need all the technical stuff. Just summary with a simple explanation
Thanks
I realised only one thing from this video
Milliseconds does matter!!!
Shopkeeper:how much fps do u want for this game
Me: yes
Wouldn't it make more sense for gaming monitors to refresh radially, from the center out to the edges, rather than from the top to the bottom? (It seems like many games focus your attention to the center of the screen instead of the top.) Perhaps screen tearing would not be as noticeable if it was in the periphery of the viewing plane? I enjoyed your thoughtful explanation of this issue. Thank you for the video.
Interesting idea about the radial refresh, that probably would be better. However it would be unreasonably complex to engineer compared to the grid design currently used
AJ C although it would probably be possible to do it on current displays, the refresh rate would be painfully slow because of how progressive screens work
Jesus Meza How slow exactly?
That would require some complex engeneering and screens would probably be much bigger, like 10x bigger, so it's better this way.
Radial refresh would have the same issues as true circular displays.
Organizing the pixels in rows and columns and addressing/refreshing them that way is much easier.
Basically, don't use Vsync in Cs-Go or any competitive games 😎...
Any other games use Fast Sync ⏩
Agree!
But still you have to know how to use those technologies(G-Sync or FreeSync) so your input lagg is not negatively affected.
Rahul129K Either use fast sync or cap the frame rate to double or triple the refresh rate of your display on csgo or any other competitive games.
Johnny Appleseed If you want to keep your input lag at a minimum, you still need to limit your FPS. 1-2 FPS below your maximum refresh rate in order for G-Sync or FreeSync to work properly and kick in.
Battle(non)sense video about fast sync showed that in some situations fastsync can cause more stutter and inconsistent frame rates than Vsync so be careful with that
Marco Rovinelli Finally someone that does get it!
Great vid, thanks for the hard work. I play Overwatche at 180-210 fps on low settings on my 144hz Dell monitor. Now I know I am not wasting frames..
Sorry max fps limited to monitor refresh hz 144/144 dont care what videocard programs shows once it is at the monitor point it cant do more and vsync is dead most free sync or Gsync why pay for it
Fast Sync and Enhanced Sync are fancy names for triple buffering. 🤓
When I had a 60hz monitor I would cap my frames at 120 fps because it felt less laggy. I remember it being very unplayable capped at 60
WTF, how does it even feel laggy on 60hz 60 fps. Hell no maybe you're too lazy mf to play at 60fps 💀
I was waiting for a video like that for months !!!!!! THANK YOU....
Read and thank me later:
One solution nobody ever mentions, probably cause very few people know about, is "Scanline Sync" coming with RTSS (Riva Tuner Statistic Server) - it allows to move the screen tear to a specific postion on the screen. So what you do is move the tear down to the bottom of the screen, just before it starts to show on top of the screen again, rendering the tear invisible. Works flawlessly with a lot of games. Just used it today for Doom. Vsync off, no tearing, no G-Sync or Free-Sync. All on a regular 60hz monitor. Try it, should work with higher refresh rates too.
I came for yes/no and understood about tearing, stuttering and many more. Thanks bud ❤️
"send frames to your eyeballs" Spilled my coffee !!! :D
7:20 when the author knows he sucks so he lets the AI play XDD
Does that mean that CYCLOLCYC (which has almost 2000 FPS frame perfects) is actually possible at 60 hertz due to the reduced imput latency?
Came back to this video to jog my memory, and it was weird seeing the old intro and outro again. Kinda nostalgic.
I’ve been looking for a clear answer to this for so long...
Thank you
I feel 75 fps or over gives you a really smooth gaming experience once you dip below that when you make faster movements you can 100% see skipped frames
I agree with this sentiment. I kept dropping to 48 frames 4k 60 all cranked. And with adjustments in ff14. With vsync. I uncapped and shot to 120fps . Dropped it to 85 frames and its smoother with no tearing. Idk but i was willing to keep vsync for SP games to make the most our of the 4k 60, but i cant. Its slow and tears. 75 fps is the sweet spot. And all this is utilizinf gsync as well.
So can I cap the Max fps at 75 on my 60 Hz display?
@@DAITYA73 It depends what game your playing and what combination of vsync and cap you have there , if you're getting a solid 65 to 75 fps and you're getting dips or stutters, lower the frame cap in game or preferably in the nvidia control panel to 60 then go in and see how well it runs and if you still get the stuttering, if you keep stuttering lower by 5 fps at a time until its stable.
Can you tell at what value should I cap my max fps using nvidia control panel for Counter Strike global offensive? 60 or 75 or do not cap at all! My laptop can easily push above 100 fps. But as it is old it gets hot easily. Thanks in advance. Also my screen is 60 Hertz.
@@DAITYA73 As I said , say youre getting 100 fps but you get dips into the 80's
cap the frame in game or in nvidia control panel to 80 because thats what its dipping to then see how smooth it is, basically whatever you 10% lows are , cap your frame limit to that or just below that and you'll not suffer micro stuttering or full on 1fps lows
I'm a blogger/content writer and appreciate the fact that you mentioned the answer on the first few sentences of the video. I do this with all my writing content to easily help readers who don't have the time to read. You have a new subscriber here. 👌
Finally someone said one thing nobody ever says in these kinds of videos "Depending on the game"
I was just asking myself this question today xD Great Video Man!
One of the best videos I've ever seen on UA-cam - breaks down a very complex yet mainstream topic and visualises it with diagrams to let everyone understand in complete detail (this is coming from a computer scientist). Thanks for this
Absolutely. I overclocked mine from 60 to 100 and it feels sooo smooth . You can see it even in mouse cursor movement. Gaming is like a 100 times better. I'm able to land better headshots. If 100hz feels so smooth I can't imagine what 240 hz feels like 🤩🤩🤩😍😍😍
The reason to have more than 60fps on a 60Hz monitor is to account for frame drops. Then you can guarantee that the lowest frame rate you get to is 60fps, so you never notice a frame drop. Unless you get steady 60fps or around 60fps at all times.
Best explanation on this topic so far. Good job, Tim!
Losonczi Eduard They did a great job but I think what Battle(non)sense - UA-cam channel does is even better! ;)
Hirens I don't watch them, but I'll take a look at them.
Trust me if you play on 200fps and go back to 60fps you cant play anymore
hz is a diminishing return, the "vast" majority of the benefit you speak of is up to about 120hz/fps, going "much" over 120fps/hz is of very little benefit to most people, you are generally better off at a higher resolutions as in 1440P with 120fps than 200fps at a mediocre 1080P, its all about balance.
U r right 😊
@@Battleneter man i have a dumb but great solution to this (ignore my grammar lol)
Firstly you set refresh rate to 144hz and play , then go back to 60hz, it will be bad at first but after some time you'll get used to it,
Then next day, or a few days later, try turning on 144hz !! Bang ! You got a smoother experience ! In this way you can always enjoy 144hz like fresh new!
@@satyam5241 lol nice
True I game 120 I for the love of bleeding eyes can't play less than 100 FPS now
This is why Gsync or freesync is so important as you need to actually disable Vsync when using either of those technologies if you want the best performance, and of course you do.
Even 4 years ago your production quality was impeccable.
Having bought a 165hz monitor, I realized that I can barely tell 165 from 60. However it's easy to spot when it dips below 60 though.
OMG, that’s why I always felt like I need to lead my shots to hit the enemy! I’ll turn off v sync right away
You didn't understand the explanation lol
Great video. For any given monitor refresh rate the ultimate goal is to ensure the game frame being sent to the screen is chronologically accurate with the monitor's frame rate timing.
If the monitor has a refresh fixed at 60Hz that means it will draw a frame 60 times every second, and being "fixed", that also means the timing between frames is identical i.e. 1/60 = EVERY 16.666(...) ms. For optimal game gfx updating, the game engine needs to sync with the monitor's update rate and, crucially, be in a position to sent a new frame ('game' chronologically accurate) exactly in time with that same rate.
Now, if the game engine can run at a higher rate than the monitor's refresh rate, the monitor will STILL be limited to displaying 60 frames per second. Do you think the frame chosen by an engine operating at a higher rate than the monitor, will be different to that operating at exactly the same rate - PROVIDING (this is the difficult bit for most folk to understand) - BOTH game engines ARE CHRONOLOGICALLY ACCURATE with respect to each AND the monitor's redraw rate?? (critical) --> IF the game engine & GPU can render at a much higher frame rate than the monitor's refresh then the programmer NEEDS to look at seeing if there is spare time to re-read the controller input AND render a more 'up-to-date' frame. The more that 'hold time' (spare time between frames) is wasted, and the greater that time, then the greater chance the player will feel a disconnect in gameplay timing.
V-wync isn't the only way to limit FPS . Some games have a limiter in game or in the settings file. You can also limit fps in your GPU software. Using the GPU vsync option instead of the in-game option would lessen the input lag. Limiting the frames in the game will reduce the input lag from the vsync. Best more would be frametime optimization with something like RivaTuner. Other tweaks would be eddeting registry option and change max frame rendered.
Limit the frames in game settings engine file, is fine.
Vsync in game would be a no go compared the vsync in GPU driver setting.
Having a constant lag over a variable input lag is better for your muscle memory, you're better with having higher input lag to home in in your skills, than have a variable input lag.
Thank you your like the only person who has explained this good and given me a clear answer
Great video and explanation of the options. Would be interesting to see how the input lag is with G-Sync.
I have been using Fast Sync for years now, no matter if my fps exceed my monitor Hz or not, and it truly is the best option because V-Sync Off is unplayable with the constant tearing.
cap fps if you dont tolerate vsync input lags
@@iikatinggangsengii2471which introduces input lag in of itself in my experience.
Truly excellent explanation. Just one correction: at the end you mentioned adaptive sync. G-sync and Freesync offer variable refresh rates. Yes the screen adapts to your framerate, but adaptive aync is something different. Adaptive sync has to do with switching the framerate between full and half the refresh rate of your monitor.
Faster reflexes and response time is good,so yes.
Good speed at a decent smoothness is still a massive difference.
Console gamer:- 30 fps enough for me.
PC gamer: feed me more 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Console run game at 60fps not 30
@@zyapsi7510 kinda true kinda not, some console games lock at "smooth 30fps" Like destiny 2 are locked at that soo some games go to 60 some stick to 30
@@lickmylemns3058 the only two games that don't run at 60fps are pubg and Destiny 2
@@zyapsi7510 out of major games yeah I'm sure there's more but I couldn't really care but ye some games still lock at 30 so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
@@zyapsi7510 console MAX fps is 60. Go watch console benchmarks. Fortnite is 45-55fps and story games that are graphically demanding are less than 30fps
Very good explanation guys. Well done on, for lack of a better term, "dumbing it down".. This will help my friend to get his head around buying a new monitor.
For those that havent made the journey. Buying a 120hz+ monitor is the biggest change and is well worth the money followed by gsync on top of this. Gsync adds that extra layer of smooth again
Agree!
But still you have to know how to use those technologies(G-Sync or FreeSync) so your input lagg is not negatively affected.
Hirens gsync adds no input lag at all. this has been tested many times. Check out "Battlenonsense" on gsync if you want an in depth breakdown.
Gsync just requires you to stay below your monitors refresh. Doing this with vsync does add input lag. Doing it with an FPS cap is recommended as it adds less.
Relex You contradicted yourself....but I completely understand what you are saying and I agree.
Jaz Yes, and what I said is exactly what you said! If you have G-SYNC ON you get higher input lag if you just leave it like that. That's why I said you have to know how to use this technologies in order to not affect your input lagg. If you have 144hz monitor with a locked 144FPS you have higher input lag than if you limit your FPS to 142FPS. And this means knowing how to use G-Sync ;)
If you want to keep your input lag at a minimum, you still need to limit your FPS. 1-2 FPS below your maximum refresh rate in order for G-Sync or FreeSync to work properly and kick in.
Relex No you said that 60 with V-SYNC is as smooth as 60 with G-SYNC but with higher input lagg. But when you have almost double the input lagg it is obvious that it is not as smooth as G-Sync.
But when you said "smooth" you referred to tearing only and I understood that.
Wow... So that's why games seem a bit more responsive when I unlock the framerate vs limit it for power savings. Noticed this in Doom: Eternal. It felt that the ~120FPS I was getting was just a BIT more responsive and smooth, vs limiting to 60... I could hardly notice it, but I could swear it was there. Guess it's a real thing.
Elite work and explanation! 👏🏻
Subscribed from here on in. ❤️
Been waiting for this! I didn't learn anything, already knew the information from this very nice video.
*DIAGRAMS*
Next level addiction to graphs.
If I go with 120 hz on my monitor, my fps goes up by like 50 fps. If I go with 144 hz on my monitor, my fps goes down by like 50 fps. Both the times, my fps is way above the refresh rate at like 250 so I find 144 hz to be a better experience and more responsive than 120 hz. I was wondering how this would change if the fps dipped below the refresh rate and now I know thanks to your video
I get average 200 fps on Valorant using a GTX 1650 on a 144hz IPS Panel.
I turned off every graphic setting except Multithread Rendering.
And now I average 300 fps.
Responsiveness and smoothness increased so much that I am just too used to playing shooter games like this
i know im a year late but
for those who are asking why rtss works better than v-sync is because rtss only capping the game framerate while v-sync not only capping the framerate but also synchronizing the frame (hence v-sync not frame-cap)
I got a good question for you guys I'd love an explaination on. When I lock fps at 71fps for instance on a 60hz monitor I get a tiny tiny micro stutters. However when it's locked to 72fps it feels much smoother. I noticed that 62fps and i think 80fps are also smooth. This is with rocket league btw.
I'm guessing it's because 71 frames doesn't go into 60 nicely. 72 is 12 more than 60, 12 is a fifth of 60. 80 is 20 more than 60, 20 is a third of 60. 71 is prime and there's no neat way to get it to 60 fps.
you forgot triple buffering. great vid btw
Technically traditional triple buffering is basically just the predecessor to Nvidia's Fast Sync or AMD's Enhanced Sync.
It's a confusing mess, but from what I've gathered basically it only was really ever fully supported in Opengl in the beginning, and the vast majority of games developed for the DirectX API that claim to have a "triple buffering" mode aren't _really_ doing triple buffering the right way up to a certain time period. Since this video was about keeping things simple, I can see why it was left out.
Licentious Howler Yeah I've read the same thing, Anandtech has a good article on it I think. The way developers have used the term differently makes it confusing.
I like to use vsync because it locks the fps to 60 so my gpu can use less power and run much quieter. For some reason just locking the fps to 60 via in-game setting or 3rd party software still results in screen tearing for me. So vsync is the best choice for me since I have a cheap 768p monitor. I don't notice any difference in latency either; vsync on/off or using enhanced sync. I'm sure there's a difference, it's just not that noticable for me.
So, I recommend anyone who doesn't own a g-sync/free-sync monitor to use vsync.
Clone monitor 60FPS GPU cap made game super smooth even on top graphics settings ?
So ..i got 5yo system eqquiped in I7 6700 @ 3.40 ghz with 980 Ti 6 gb connected to large screen tv 60 hz, but when after many days and hours spend with game... i felt like my tired eyes can not see properly anymore (so difficult to see clearly specialy darker corners within buildings) and i decided to give a try on old 27 inch 60 hz monitor (switching with Nvidia settings between primary and secondary display to avoid putting cables in and out).
Now the issue ...on both tv and monitor .. initial graphics settings were automaticly set to "mid level" by nvidia giving me quite smooth FPS between minimum 90 -140 ..with very occasional visible frame drops to 60 -70 in the most demanding scenes (also bit of slowdown/ "lag" was occuring quite often while variabe scope Dragunov aiming "in first second").
Than (just to not change display settings constantly) i used option "to clone" both screens ....and noticed (i guess) automatic graphics card FRAME CAP set itself on 60 FPS ...but all was just running perfectly smooth .....than wanted to fixed FPS limit and put accidentaly all graphics setting on highest possible level (first on lowest) ....and shockingly ...the game runs incredibly even faster (or exactly the same) ! ...still 60hz but SUPER SUPER SMOOTH PICTURE LIKE NEVER BEFORE ...where every dropframe below 90 FPS were clearly visible (on largely reduced graph settings and same 60 hz tv/monitor).
How is that possible .... only wise thing comes to mind ... that IF YOU GOT 60 HZ screen ...the graphics card will give the best of itself on such a perfectly "synchronized" setting ?
(that there is no point having large FPS amount while your monitor is 60 hz ... idk ...i thought completely different ...and as was said ....on exactly same 60 hz screen...before 120 FPS counter - picture supersmooth ...but occasionaly below 90 fps drop effect of slowdown/ "lag" were quite visible ....now GPU locked itself on 60 fps and it all goes SUPER SUPER FAST AND SMOOTH PICTURE ON HIGHEST POSSIBLE GRAPHICS setting (in every scene) which looks amazing / no more scope first sec bit lag or any slowdown during game also)
Anyone have idea ..why it works that way ? : )
Vsync is actually mimicking fps lock but in reality it's just hold high frames to sync with your monitor refresh rate. Example if your games runs at 100 fps on 60hz monitor (vsync on), lock at 60fps but actually it still running 100 fps but another 40 fps is been hold to sync with your refresh rate. Than if the frames that it was hold was high it can create in put lag... this mean more high frames that was hold, it will create high input lag and even frame skipping if your system cant handle it. So if the hold frame is like between 61-70 fps, the input lag will be less and less frame skipping. So it needs to be balanced. Even better turn on vsync and force max frame frame rate in the gpu control panel to match your fps when vsync on. Example 60 fps when VSync ON (60hz) and set max frame rate to 60 fps so vsync will not hold frames so less input lag and better frame pacing.