Someone said that one of the warlords found an ancient Romulan Bird of Prey, refitted it and has been using it,... I would assume that this Warlord would have upgraded many things ala Han Solo and the Falcon. To assume that it represents any more than that, is stretching,..
Bruce Jenner Well this warlord by the looks of the ship spent a pretty penny on it. The Falcon always looked like it was mechanically we’ll maintained but not cosmetically. This warbird looks showroom new. I personally would have lost my shit if I were it’s owner and lost my engine nacelle like that.
This is why I've never understood why the shape of the outer hull is what defines a class of ship. If a Miranda shaped hull is equipped with weapons that make it effective in war time a century after It's construction, then how can it still be called Miranda class?
I am not expecting to be 100% replica of the same designs as the older trek, especially since star trek from the 60's were really limited effects at the time, but this i can actually accept, it looks upgraded enough to fit in a modern context but still acknowledges the original design of the old trek and fits in canon. This is already a big improvement over discovery.
The TOS Bird of Prey had different weapons entirely, a different impulse setup, and was under-powered for it's time. If it's a TOS Bird of Prey, it's been heavily modified.
@@dotmatrix7383 Screw the Discoprise; the Enterprise has a well-documented and detailed design lineage. This BOP is _not_ the TOS ship: it doesn't even have plasma torpedoes.
@@Idazmi7 it is also how many decades after TOS? It is like a T-54. probably stolen by a warlord out of some storage, not fresh off the production line. It might be crap, but if you are the only one with a 70 year tank in the neighborhood to tyrannize your neighbors, it does not matter that it is 70 year old, you are still the only person with a tank.
To be quite honest, I never thought that there would ever be a Romulan bird of prey (TOS) style again. What a joy to see something that old yet maintained so well that it is still battle ready. As always, please continue making it so 🖖
Enterprise (1701), D7, and now this. The production teams are on a roll with excellent and really faithful TOS inspired ship designs. It is a shame that they didn't start Discovery with a similar mentality (thanks, Bryan Fuller), but I'm glad they have come around at least
@@NeonVisual pretty demonstrably untrue. Fuller wanted redesigned Klingons, non-cylindrical nacelles on Starfleet ships, and 'flat, ship profiles. Lots of sources from concept artists available for that. Fuller DID want uniforms in primary colors like TOS though, but his vision for ships wasn't that TOS at all
@@NeonVisual by who? And why were they okay with ditching the mandates (no cylindrical nacelles, weird Klingon ships) after he left? We can't really no for sure, but I'm not aware of any reliable source saying it was forced on him. He left very late in development after a lot of design work was set in place. If he hated it so much can't imagine he'd have been there so long
I really do not get the idea that a modern TV show should not update the visuals from crappy 60s TV show budgets. That level of suspension of disbelief really should be expected if you watch anything.
@@mangalores-x_x I think the issue stems mostly not from updating in of itself, but the issue of tasteful updates and what's going too far and violating of canon. Such as the not-D-7 from S1 DSC, for example.
The hull plating almost certainly dates it to TMP era. It's an almost perfect match for the Klingon plating designs. Also, the bird was likely added on much later for the fear factor. Painting giant birds on the BOTTOM of a vessel that's aerodynamic enough for atmospheric flight isn't just for artistic license. Both pre-warp and civilian populations would be filled with terror if they looked up to see a massive bird of prey screeching past above them. This was one of the few hip designs that made sense for this kind of psychological terror and it was almost certainly why the TOS ship had a bird on it, considering what we know of its mission. I would love a quality scale model of this ship, especially if it came packed with the TOS version. From what I could make out of the windows in the comparison, they're actually just about the same size, making it even more likely the hull armour was updated during refit to make up for the original's weaknesses when facing the Constellation class. This has pretty much found itself in my top 5 (official) Star Trek ship designs right along TMP and TNG-era Klingon designs, the NX-class, and the DiscoVerse 1701 (despite the horrid scaling, it's a beautiful ship).
Calling it antique was perfect. No further explanation needed. Great video. When I saw this ship it was a Star Trek treat. Those are few and far between, these days.
true but we don't really have armed commercial ships anymore. It's probably better to compare it to 18th or early 19th century ships. So a late age of sail era private ship vs an older frigate from a century before
That's all relative... I mean, an armed cruise ship with modern weaponry bolted onto it's decks (think anti-ship missiles and advanced radar) could tear even a modern battleship a new one in the right conditions too. Type and age are not always relevant. And as noted by others, it depends on the era too. - in the age of sailing ships, commercial vessels were pretty well armed too, and a warship isn't necessarily a better fighter than your average ocean-going 'commercial' vessel. Arguably the distinction wasn't really that clear-cut back then anyway. A ship with enough cannons is arguably a warship. But one that has a huge cargo hold is a freighter... So... What if it has both? The thing about our current era is that typically civilian vehicles are completely defenseless unless they are built for unusual conditions. An armoured limo for instance. Or airliners that fly near active warzones a lot, which are now starting to be fitted with anti-missile defense systems. Military variants of civilian aircraft also often have defenses their civilian counterparts do not. When your civilian ships have no defensive systems (active or passive), no weaponry, no combat capable radar systems, and so on... Yeah, sure even an old warship is threatening. Though... Again, context. A WW1 battleship could easily wreck a modern cargo or cruise ship. But an old sailing ship would be toothless; The cannons aren't very effective against metal hulled ships, and the nature of a sailing ship would make it hard to keep up with the modern ship. Plus even a civilian ship likely has systems for detecting nearby vessels, such as forms of radar and the like, which would mean they'd see the warship coming long before it was even hypothetically a threat. Meanwhile, get a container ship, and stack a few of the self-contained missile systems Russia has apparently developed (something like 6 missiles in a standard shipping container with targeting and other systems. Looks like a normal container from the outside), and watch as you ruin even a modern warship's day if they weren't expecting it. You can kill a modern human with a stone age axe. But you wouldn't have much luck killing someone driving a car with one unless you get really lucky...
This series has sooo much to do with romulans and I love it, as romulans are finally shown to be all very distinct and unique, in many ways much more human than vulcans or klingons. But if we don't get to see at least one d'deridex ship in this show, it would be a bit disappointing. Come on, where's the ACTUAL most iconic ship of the romulans?
@Robertson Thirdly All the birds of prey do. The Romulans are an imperious people and pomp, ceremony and iconography are vitally important to them, especially in a martial sense. Their ships are designed to look like carnivorous birds. Raptors. The image projects agility, deadly prowess and grace. It is so engrained in their design philosophy that it is the default design for their ships. The Kllingons got the designs of their ships from the Romulans, and it inspired their ships too, though later heavier classes reverted to more barge like craft.
D7 -> K'tinga = TOS BOP -> this ship Looks like a slightly newer version of the TOS ship. Was a great design! Really liked the bird painting underneath too
I liked the last episode, found it to be really neat to delve more into the Romulan society. So far I am enjoying Picard and hope it just keeps getting better.
I actually LOVE this ship! I'm a big fan of TOS and love that they actually brought this beauty in! I think it's fantastic! Now, that said I'd be willing to accept this as a canon TMP era BoP. I don't think we ever saw one from that era on screen. I've seen a few fan versions that were available as mods on games such as Starfleet Command, Armada and Activition's Bridge Commander. I believe that there are some design elements from those versions that they could have looked at and used to show a bit more improvement over the original design we see in TOS... kind of mirroring the development of the Constitution Class for the Federation. One thing I would have liked to have seen is a slight increase in size. Again, it would mirror her contemporary rival ship (the Federation Constitution). The TOS Constitution was 289 meters long and the TMP era refit is 305 meters long. It's not much of an increase in size, but it is noticeable. It makes it look a bit more beefier... more menacing. Other things this could have used from the fan concepts I've seen are more streamlined rectangular nacelles with light green plasma grills and a protruding forward plasma torpedo launcher. This would give it more a bird-like look and mark a visual progression to the bigger bird-like ships we see later like the D'deridex Warbird. But yes, I really do like this design. I'm okay with it being the canon TMP era Romulan BoP.
At this point I'm perfectly OK with retconning TOS into near-TMP aesthetics. TOS was SEVERELY limited by production value. I like to think about TOS as more like a fan production or 'sweded' style version of actual TOS era history.
@@computerboy2k A lot of it is pretty good. But the sets look like cardboard and so do the ships. I was just reading about John Eaves designing the 22nd century bird of prey for Enterprise and he said that the VFX guys would never approve the original design now, and that they wanted deep details to catch shadows and lighting. Everything about the old ship designs is too smooth and flat.
@@thedevastator1994 Agreed. I recall a discussion, either with the original connie designer, or someone who spoke with him, and they apparently had all sorts of strange ideas like that they would 'grow' whole sections of the hull. That was obviously never born out in the canon, so some visible detailing is probably a good idea.
Definitely a nice recreation of the TOS BOP, and the extended impulse engines remind me of how the Enterprise-B had extra impulse engines added onto the Excelsior design, an enhancement to the base ship... :)
It's just a TOS Bird of Prey. No nitpicking needed. Its just been updated with modern SFX in mind. There simple answer. Sometimes the 'keep it simple' method is best.
I just saw the trailer analysis of this ship from four months back and noticed the possible weapons at the wing roots. They look like the central weapon port of the original. Now I can see them on it in these shots too. My guess is this is not just a visual update of the Bird of Prey but a later model with dual plasma torpedo launchers. Except, for what ever reason it doesn't have plasma torpedoes, just disruptor beams. That makes some sense since it could have been found with all its weapons removed, or the TOS plasma torpedo might have become hopelessly primitive and removed for that reason at some point.
I'm happy that they didn't go for a full visual reboot. This is very respectful of the original design of a classic ship. I'm thinking that it could be a movie era or later ship, but if this were a matter of them saying "hey, we have the visual technology to put more detail on this thing, how do you like it" I really wouldn't mind at all. You know I could imagine the Romualns keeping Birds of Prey as a part of their navy for local police patrols after the larger Warbirds came out.
The word "antique" when applied to a vehicle can mean as little as 20 years old. In those terms, it could have been built as late as 2379 and still be an antique.
I would have loved to see a plasma launcher used in the battle with this. Imagine La Sirena going through a suspenseful chase sequence with a big scary plasma bolt behind it. I agree with Cmdr Cockings that the battle with it was kind of same ol same ol.
the battle was so so, also terrible way to introduce 7 of 9 but at least the show is moving in a decent direction episode 1 was good but episode 2 and 3 could of been combined... I hope we get to see some modern Romulan ships even something like the Valdore from Nemesis would be awesome...
Is it strange that only the old ship designs (that are slightly updated) are the only ones that interest me. So far there hasn't been a single new design that is interesting at all.
TOS ship from Balance of Terror had little detailing and lighting. The AMT model kit at the time also wasn’t very detailed, and only had the bird decal to apply on the bottom.
i actually wished that they had taken this old ship and made it look like the local warlord had found a hull and had to add components to it that were not sleek and symmetrical (to emphasize that this was a bit of a "mad max" sort of place now. But at that point if the "salvage" nature of the ship wasn't repeated 5 times very loudly and put in big flashing letters on the screen and sent to all the cannon gate keepers as a direct push notification, there would be howls about "not real bop". so meh ) but i do like the idea that the warlord stole a "cherry" bop during a raid or looting from some rich ex-senator's abandoned pleasure moon that would play into the "pristine" nature of the ship. During the battle i also kinda wish that they had tricked the BOP into slamming into the drone defense system and getting dispatched in that way. (I mean there are 3 starfleet officers on that ship.) but we also needed to get 7 of 9 onto the ship, so there's that.
Good to see another early romulan ship, as in TOS the only actual Romulan ship was the BoP and Romulan ships didn't appear in the movies at all(i believe).
I don't know why you conclude that the glow must be additional impulse engines. Why couldn't they be plasma intercoolers like on the refit Constitution pylons? They are both on structures that terminate with a warp nacelle.
Thank god this isn't a "New version" of the Romulan fleet. Can't wait to see some Galaxy class ships. I feel like they are building up to a big surprise.
I think once you reach a certain level of tech it becomes more plausible to continue to use a particular platform and still be lethal/useful. We're seeing it today with the US B-52 bomber projected to be in service into the 2040s. The internals get updated, but the original design gets the job done. Rafi mentioned using mothballed ships, I'm sure loads of those would be TOS era ships that are still space-worthy. In the Dyson's Sphere episode of TNG LaForge comments that Scotty's TNG-era ship could still run circles around the Enterprise at impulse. Depending on the scenario I love the idea of keeping older designs around.
It was basically a fight between a runabout and a small warship. Then in comes Seven's fighter craft, with heavy weapons but it's made of paper mache. It all made sense to me.
They always were. It's a silly myth that the BoPs weren't and all because of a throwaway line in Balance of Terror. Even in that episode the ship could do low-FTL speeds, fire a plasma weapon that could over take the Enterprise at full emergency warp and a year later several BoPs were able to surround and keep up with the Enterprise at warp five in The Deadly Years.
I remember when I saw the teaser I thought for a brief second that it was Picard and his merry band of misfits using that old warbird. Oh how I wish instead of the not-Rocinante ship our hero’s are floating around in they used an old Romulan or Klingon bird of prey. It would have even made sense in cannon. We know the Klingons sell off surplus ships (TNG-the rascals) and it would make sense if old Romulan ships can be had after the super nova balkanized the romulan state.
I've been calling the La Sirena The Not-Roci, too! The LS and the Roci have a very similar design language and the Roci's Operations Deck and the LS' bridge is very similar to one another!
Mike DeMarco That would have been cool too. It could have been a hodgepodge ship. A runabout with a Romulan warp engine, Ferangi sensors and Klingon disrupters. The La Sirena just doesn’t do it for me. I also don’t like the hologram controls but that’s just me.
It's a weird ship... i could've gone for anything really... So many options they could've taken, but they chose this. Reminds me of a fan idea for the series made when all we had was a name. It clearly won't ever happen, but maybe it'd make a good novel? I probably can't explain it well, since the person that came up with it gave much more coherent reasons for how and why this scenario would come about... Basically we had Picard and a bunch of younger cast members (And maybe someone else from the TNG era, like Geordi perhaps). I forget many of the details given, but basically it amounted to getting a mission to do something or other and the ship they were on takes heavy damage and has to be abandoned. (somewhere far from easy rescue) Somehow they find an old galaxy class ship out there, which is in really bad shape, but still has basic things like life support working. The younger crew has no idea what to do with this old, barely functioning ship, but of course Picard and company (there's a reason why Geordi was the first choice) are very familiar with this kind of ship... So we see this Galaxy class we're all really familiar with, and it's plus interiors, looking all run down, worn out and barely held together, but they fix it up bit by bit... I mean I don't do it justice, but it was an interesting idea when I heard it...
Might see more, this one might get patched together and come back after them. It was not destroyed after all, and now that little warlord will have a grudge. Otherwise, well like you chaps said, they are not the Federation flagship. Thus they aren't on the bleeding edge of an advancing fleet either. Picard is doing something none of the others really did. Show us what more everyday like folks lives are like in the Star Trek universe. Who knows what small things various groups might have scrapped together with the Federation seemingly turning inward to protect it's own territory and leaving the rest to fend for themselves. Which is kinda what this is looking like. Oh a big enough threat might pull a Starship out to deal with it. But the smaller things... this could get interesting!
Just loved the reworking of the romulan bird of prey the original series style one fantastic don't know about you guys but I'd love to see a bit more of 7of 9's ship.
This fits in perfect as a TMP era upgrade. The Enterprise from the Constitution and the K'Tinga from the D7. This would be the Romulan upgrade with an effective warp engine, improved impulse, and weapons upgrades...courtesy of the tech transfer when the Klingons sold the D6/7 to the Roms.
It’s a really good ship. I’m fairly confident it’s a TOS visual reboot rather than a TMP BoP but I’m happy with it in either case. I would have loved it if it had whipped out a TOS plasma torpedo which forces the hero ship to emergency reverse warp. I would have freaked out if that happened.
Regardless of which tv era (TOS, TMP), my impression was that it was a really old ship knocking around the civilian market for ever, perhaps at one time decommissioned from the Romulan fleet, sold, refit, sold again, revamped, stripped-down, built back up, refit (again), absorbed into merchant fleets, sold (more times), until it ended up in use by a warlord. Makes perfect sense to me. Obviously, the owners probably wouldn't have completely changed the contours (requiring dockyards and fleet infrastructure to do that) but the tweaks they did to the hull plating, cowlings, nacelles, etc. seem in line with decades of small updates by previous owners for various purposes. Taken another way, even a WWI destroyer, which would be ineffective in today's military, would be a boon to some pirate off modern day Horn of Africa, if they were able to get their hands on one. Would be useful in caring a large boarding party and some of those guns could be upgraded to harass shipping routes and could even be updated with a knock off CIWS gun.
For context, the argument about the ship being overpowered would be like taking a king George the 5th class battleship from the 30s and complaining that a civilian freighter doesn't hold up against a broadside.
As much as it was great to see an update TOS bird of prey, calling it antique does throw more unwelcome light on use of DISCO shuttles. Enjoying Picard so some what willing to over look the shuttle on most part.
the Blinky lights all over the bottom is because it belongs to a warlord, he is pimping it out so you can't miss it. He never thought he would lose... and probably hadn't, up until this point. This ship isn't about cloaking and stealth, it's about making a statement. He could have easily flown in under cloak and blown the La Sirena out of the sky, but he didn't, they picked him up on long range scanners flying in. Like "heeeere's D'Johnny!". Possibly removed the old antiquated cloaking system in order to put more impulse engines in there.
I like the idea that this is what romulan ships looked like during the motion picture Kirk era because we hardly ever got to see any of that in the movies. I don't think we actually ever saw a single romulan ship during the Kirk movies it was all about the Klingons or nothing lol.
The vicarette India's aircraft carrier was built in world war II it was only decommissioned a few months ago. As it was still a practical vessel. Here in America, most national guard units have older equipment. In the Soviet Union well Russia now there are still hundreds of tanks that fought the German army in storage we mothball ships all the time. I personally have a mosin-nogat m91-30 rifle that was designed in 1891 refurbished in the 1930s by the Soviet Union as a light anti-tank weapon I can still blow a round through the engine block of a car; old doesn't mean useless. The shipping question was in the hands of some local Warlord it had most likely been an older design that had been relegated to low-level duty much like a cop car that this criminal element got his hands on and after the destruction of the romulan empire they're going to use what they can use.
Its looking very cool. Very similar to the Original ^^ Damn good work. Maybe its was realy from the TMP era. But it was see sadly to short in this Episode. ^^''
I disagree with you on there being 4 disrupters in the little boxes; I see 2 larger disrupters at the point where the wing meets the hull. The 4 slot boxes you are talking about are windows or something else. Honestly, I really don't like this ship compared to the TOS version.
What if the Picard Warbird looks the way it does because it has paneling and armor removed in order to reduce its inertia, increasing its impulse speed and acceleration? Armor in Trek does not seem to do much, unless it's Ablative Armor. But even then that never seemed to do much better than whatever the standard armor before that was.
Its probably safe to say that its been upgraded with newer tech over the years. Weapons, shields, engines etc.
Super Coops
That’s my thought. Kinda like the B52 bomber. With upgrades you can make any old chassis continue to be useful and effective
agreed
Someone said that one of the warlords found an ancient Romulan Bird of Prey, refitted it and has been using it,... I would assume that this Warlord would have upgraded many things ala Han Solo and the Falcon. To assume that it represents any more than that, is stretching,..
Bruce Jenner
Well this warlord by the looks of the ship spent a pretty penny on it. The Falcon always looked like it was mechanically we’ll maintained but not cosmetically.
This warbird looks showroom new. I personally would have lost my shit if I were it’s owner and lost my engine nacelle like that.
This is why I've never understood why the shape of the outer hull is what defines a class of ship. If a Miranda shaped hull is equipped with weapons that make it effective in war time a century after It's construction, then how can it still be called Miranda class?
CBS did something I didn't think possible.....THEY CREATED A SHIP THAT I HAVE LITERALLY NO PROBLEMS WITH!!!!!!
its paint job, its got an ugly metalic sheen like the rest of them and its way too art deco
@@kavinskysmith4094 I'm fine with the shine. Reflective surfaces make sense in space to reduce heat absorbtion
I would love to see a Captain Pike series and have Enterprise meet this class of BoP
E Parhas I hope the Discovery production team is taking notes.
@@eparhas9162 its too much though, and with the sets as shiney as they are, that kind of thing is best used in moderation.
This was the best scene of the entire series so far.
I am not expecting to be 100% replica of the same designs as the older trek, especially since star trek from the 60's were really limited effects at the time, but this i can actually accept, it looks upgraded enough to fit in a modern context but still acknowledges the original design of the old trek and fits in canon. This is already a big improvement over discovery.
In my opinion, this is lock, stock, and barrel the TOS BoP. It's a simple visual upgrade. Dialog seems to hint at that.
The TOS Bird of Prey had different weapons entirely, a different impulse setup, and was under-powered for it's time. If it's a TOS Bird of Prey, it's been heavily modified.
@@Idazmi7 Like I said, it's a simple visual upgrade. Just like the Discoprise.
@@dotmatrix7383
Screw the Discoprise; the Enterprise has a well-documented and detailed design lineage. This BOP is _not_ the TOS ship: it doesn't even have plasma torpedoes.
@@Idazmi7 it is also how many decades after TOS? It is like a T-54. probably stolen by a warlord out of some storage, not fresh off the production line. It might be crap, but if you are the only one with a 70 year tank in the neighborhood to tyrannize your neighbors, it does not matter that it is 70 year old, you are still the only person with a tank.
To be quite honest, I never thought that there would ever be a Romulan bird of prey (TOS) style again. What a joy to see something that old yet maintained so well that it is still battle ready.
As always, please continue making it so 🖖
Enterprise (1701), D7, and now this. The production teams are on a roll with excellent and really faithful TOS inspired ship designs. It is a shame that they didn't start Discovery with a similar mentality (thanks, Bryan Fuller), but I'm glad they have come around at least
Producers,after season 1 Discovery: let's make the ships better from now on, those Trekyards are wathing.
Fuller WANTED TOS designs, he said the fans would hate reboot ships, and left.
@@NeonVisual pretty demonstrably untrue. Fuller wanted redesigned Klingons, non-cylindrical nacelles on Starfleet ships, and 'flat, ship profiles. Lots of sources from concept artists available for that. Fuller DID want uniforms in primary colors like TOS though, but his vision for ships wasn't that TOS at all
@@SJgolf891 The concept art was not ordered by Fuller, he had it forced on him.
@@NeonVisual by who? And why were they okay with ditching the mandates (no cylindrical nacelles, weird Klingon ships) after he left?
We can't really no for sure, but I'm not aware of any reliable source saying it was forced on him. He left very late in development after a lot of design work was set in place. If he hated it so much can't imagine he'd have been there so long
It can be TOS. The ship in TOS were a prototype. This can be the MK II
Or just updated with some new stuff.
Or refitted just like the TOS Enterprise got refitted into the Movie Enterprise.
I really do not get the idea that a modern TV show should not update the visuals from crappy 60s TV show budgets. That level of suspension of disbelief really should be expected if you watch anything.
mangalores-x_x you are right. No Probleme with Update Look from ship of the 60
@@mangalores-x_x I think the issue stems mostly not from updating in of itself, but the issue of tasteful updates and what's going too far and violating of canon. Such as the not-D-7 from S1 DSC, for example.
The hull plating almost certainly dates it to TMP era. It's an almost perfect match for the Klingon plating designs. Also, the bird was likely added on much later for the fear factor. Painting giant birds on the BOTTOM of a vessel that's aerodynamic enough for atmospheric flight isn't just for artistic license. Both pre-warp and civilian populations would be filled with terror if they looked up to see a massive bird of prey screeching past above them. This was one of the few hip designs that made sense for this kind of psychological terror and it was almost certainly why the TOS ship had a bird on it, considering what we know of its mission.
I would love a quality scale model of this ship, especially if it came packed with the TOS version. From what I could make out of the windows in the comparison, they're actually just about the same size, making it even more likely the hull armour was updated during refit to make up for the original's weaknesses when facing the Constellation class.
This has pretty much found itself in my top 5 (official) Star Trek ship designs right along TMP and TNG-era Klingon designs, the NX-class, and the DiscoVerse 1701 (despite the horrid scaling, it's a beautiful ship).
Calling it antique was perfect. No further explanation needed. Great video. When I saw this ship it was a Star Trek treat. Those are few and far between, these days.
An antique cruiser could still quite happily tears its way through modern commercial ships. Old can still be potent.
Darn right
true but we don't really have armed commercial ships anymore. It's probably better to compare it to 18th or early 19th century ships. So a late age of sail era private ship vs an older frigate from a century before
That's all relative...
I mean, an armed cruise ship with modern weaponry bolted onto it's decks (think anti-ship missiles and advanced radar) could tear even a modern battleship a new one in the right conditions too.
Type and age are not always relevant.
And as noted by others, it depends on the era too. - in the age of sailing ships, commercial vessels were pretty well armed too, and a warship isn't necessarily a better fighter than your average ocean-going 'commercial' vessel.
Arguably the distinction wasn't really that clear-cut back then anyway.
A ship with enough cannons is arguably a warship.
But one that has a huge cargo hold is a freighter...
So... What if it has both?
The thing about our current era is that typically civilian vehicles are completely defenseless unless they are built for unusual conditions.
An armoured limo for instance.
Or airliners that fly near active warzones a lot, which are now starting to be fitted with anti-missile defense systems.
Military variants of civilian aircraft also often have defenses their civilian counterparts do not.
When your civilian ships have no defensive systems (active or passive), no weaponry, no combat capable radar systems, and so on...
Yeah, sure even an old warship is threatening.
Though... Again, context.
A WW1 battleship could easily wreck a modern cargo or cruise ship.
But an old sailing ship would be toothless; The cannons aren't very effective against metal hulled ships, and the nature of a sailing ship would make it hard to keep up with the modern ship.
Plus even a civilian ship likely has systems for detecting nearby vessels, such as forms of radar and the like, which would mean they'd see the warship coming long before it was even hypothetically a threat.
Meanwhile, get a container ship, and stack a few of the self-contained missile systems Russia has apparently developed (something like 6 missiles in a standard shipping container with targeting and other systems. Looks like a normal container from the outside), and watch as you ruin even a modern warship's day if they weren't expecting it.
You can kill a modern human with a stone age axe.
But you wouldn't have much luck killing someone driving a car with one unless you get really lucky...
This series has sooo much to do with romulans and I love it, as romulans are finally shown to be all very distinct and unique, in many ways much more human than vulcans or klingons. But if we don't get to see at least one d'deridex ship in this show, it would be a bit disappointing. Come on, where's the ACTUAL most iconic ship of the romulans?
@Robertson Thirdly All the birds of prey do. The Romulans are an imperious people and pomp, ceremony and iconography are vitally important to them, especially in a martial sense. Their ships are designed to look like carnivorous birds. Raptors. The image projects agility, deadly prowess and grace. It is so engrained in their design philosophy that it is the default design for their ships. The Kllingons got the designs of their ships from the Romulans, and it inspired their ships too, though later heavier classes reverted to more barge like craft.
@Robertson Thirdly They're designed for *_aerospace_* operations; in other words, designed to be capable of atmospheric flight.
Unlike this vessel, the _D'deridex-_ class *_IS NOT_* designed for atmospheric flight.
Indeed, this is how remaster should be done :D
SHIPS! This is why I’m here. There have been a number of little additions on PIC. Let’s see ‘em!
Too bad the scene with this ship didn't last longer.
I'd love to see it to evade a Romulan D'deridex by flying into the center space.
You'd probably need to go through the shields first and that is not that easy.
Romulan Capt: Where did they go?
Romulan crewmen: Sir they are between our nacelles.
Romulan Capt: Well shit
So many years to hear someone else thinks this is a cool idea. I always wanted to see them fly in there in a shuttle or something, in TNG or DS9.
Would have loved to see the interior
She's beyond beautiful
Loved the sound of the disruptors firing
D7 -> K'tinga = TOS BOP -> this ship
Looks like a slightly newer version of the TOS ship. Was a great design! Really liked the bird painting underneath too
Loved this update to the BOP. It works very well because it truly respects what came before.
So, does it have warp drive or simple impulse. 🤔
Do we know which ship cut off the nacelle? If it was Sevens maybe a weapon based on a Borg cutting beam?
Aku both ships did.
Both did with the phasers.
Funny how the best thing the new Trek can come up with is simply the touch up of of the Old Trek.
This is basically perfect.
My opinion, either a TOS era with upgrades akin to how the Connie got a refit, or even in service during their isolation pre-TNG.
My thoughts. Do people realize how much difference the enterprise look after the refit. The Nacelles alone is totally different
I do believe this is the visual retcon of a Romulan BoP from the 2260s. Sooooooo it "always was meant to look like this".
I liked the last episode, found it to be really neat to delve more into the Romulan society. So far I am enjoying Picard and hope it just keeps getting better.
I actually LOVE this ship! I'm a big fan of TOS and love that they actually brought this beauty in! I think it's fantastic! Now, that said I'd be willing to accept this as a canon TMP era BoP. I don't think we ever saw one from that era on screen. I've seen a few fan versions that were available as mods on games such as Starfleet Command, Armada and Activition's Bridge Commander. I believe that there are some design elements from those versions that they could have looked at and used to show a bit more improvement over the original design we see in TOS... kind of mirroring the development of the Constitution Class for the Federation. One thing I would have liked to have seen is a slight increase in size. Again, it would mirror her contemporary rival ship (the Federation Constitution). The TOS Constitution was 289 meters long and the TMP era refit is 305 meters long. It's not much of an increase in size, but it is noticeable. It makes it look a bit more beefier... more menacing. Other things this could have used from the fan concepts I've seen are more streamlined rectangular nacelles with light green plasma grills and a protruding forward plasma torpedo launcher. This would give it more a bird-like look and mark a visual progression to the bigger bird-like ships we see later like the D'deridex Warbird. But yes, I really do like this design. I'm okay with it being the canon TMP era Romulan BoP.
I want this as a skin for my Bird of Prey in STO. Fingers crossed they will.
🖖😎👍One of my all time favorites from the Startrek universe, you guys did a very good on job on this one guys.
This ship was a pleasant surprise, just wish Picard was being treated with the same level of respect.
Agreed. Picard is shamed in every episode so far.
I like how they've included the Romulan Rebirth Movement logo into the bird.
I haven't liked much in this series but LOVE this ship. I think I liked seeing it more then the Enterprise D.
Agree that this is improvement over the old one, and its great.
Love this, so many cool details that I didn't even catch! Thank you!!! Can't wait to see your analysis of La Sirena!
I'm curious, do you guys think 7 was using a Borg cutting beam to take off that nacelle?
And the ship was lit well in space!!! Looked great!
At this point I'm perfectly OK with retconning TOS into near-TMP aesthetics. TOS was SEVERELY limited by production value. I like to think about TOS as more like a fan production or 'sweded' style version of actual TOS era history.
Understand that at that time, those special effects were state of the art for 60s television....
@@computerboy2k A lot of it is pretty good. But the sets look like cardboard and so do the ships. I was just reading about John Eaves designing the 22nd century bird of prey for Enterprise and he said that the VFX guys would never approve the original design now, and that they wanted deep details to catch shadows and lighting. Everything about the old ship designs is too smooth and flat.
@@WallHaxxx indeed and NO Plating details whatsoever, which is quite unappealing
@@thedevastator1994 Agreed. I recall a discussion, either with the original connie designer, or someone who spoke with him, and they apparently had all sorts of strange ideas like that they would 'grow' whole sections of the hull. That was obviously never born out in the canon, so some visible detailing is probably a good idea.
I love this new take on the Original Series 23rd Century Romulan Bird of Prey.
Definitely a nice recreation of the TOS BOP, and the extended impulse engines remind me of how the Enterprise-B had extra impulse engines added onto the Excelsior design, an enhancement to the base ship... :)
A warlord that digs milsurps - I can relate.
Romulan Bird of Prey of any variant is always a favorite of mine.
It's just a TOS Bird of Prey. No nitpicking needed. Its just been updated with modern SFX in mind. There simple answer. Sometimes the 'keep it simple' method is best.
Always a pleasure gentlemen. Thanks
Yes, VERY cool version of the old Bird! Like Sam said, design done right.
I thought they did a great job with this similar to how Enterprise did Romulan ships quite well too.
What a beautiful design, love it
I just saw the trailer analysis of this ship from four months back and noticed the possible weapons at the wing roots. They look like the central weapon port of the original. Now I can see them on it in these shots too. My guess is this is not just a visual update of the Bird of Prey but a later model with dual plasma torpedo launchers. Except, for what ever reason it doesn't have plasma torpedoes, just disruptor beams. That makes some sense since it could have been found with all its weapons removed, or the TOS plasma torpedo might have become hopelessly primitive and removed for that reason at some point.
I'm happy that they didn't go for a full visual reboot. This is very respectful of the original design of a classic ship. I'm thinking that it could be a movie era or later ship, but if this were a matter of them saying "hey, we have the visual technology to put more detail on this thing, how do you like it" I really wouldn't mind at all. You know I could imagine the Romualns keeping Birds of Prey as a part of their navy for local police patrols after the larger Warbirds came out.
Did you call the ship La Senza at around 7.40?
If so I am amused
Maybe all the lights are RCS thrusters? Going for extreme maneuverability?
The word "antique" when applied to a vehicle can mean as little as 20 years old. In those terms, it could have been built as late as 2379 and still be an antique.
The Klingon BoP was an antique by the timeline of Star Trek Picard.
All those LEDs remind me of a custom gaming computer.
Any reason this can’t be TOS just modified and upgraded over the decades??
That’s just my opinion your results may vary
I would have loved to see a plasma launcher used in the battle with this. Imagine La Sirena going through a suspenseful chase sequence with a big scary plasma bolt behind it. I agree with Cmdr Cockings that the battle with it was kind of same ol same ol.
the battle was so so, also terrible way to introduce 7 of 9 but at least the show is moving in a decent direction episode 1 was good but episode 2 and 3 could of been combined... I hope we get to see some modern Romulan ships even something like the Valdore from Nemesis would be awesome...
In the battle, how did Dr. Agnes Jurati know that was a Bird of Prey?
She's doesn't have a military background unless she's a sleeper agent.
Is it strange that only the old ship designs (that are slightly updated) are the only ones that interest me. So far there hasn't been a single new design that is interesting at all.
You could really imagine that Warbird fighting the USS Franklin. As Samuel says, this shows what the visual reboot should have been.
TOS ship from Balance of Terror had little detailing and lighting. The AMT model kit at the time also wasn’t very detailed, and only had the bird decal to apply on the bottom.
i actually wished that they had taken this old ship and made it look like the local warlord had found a hull and had to add components to it that were not sleek and symmetrical (to emphasize that this was a bit of a "mad max" sort of place now. But at that point if the "salvage" nature of the ship wasn't repeated 5 times very loudly and put in big flashing letters on the screen and sent to all the cannon gate keepers as a direct push notification, there would be howls about "not real bop". so meh )
but i do like the idea that the warlord stole a "cherry" bop during a raid or looting from some rich ex-senator's abandoned pleasure moon that would play into the "pristine" nature of the ship.
During the battle i also kinda wish that they had tricked the BOP into slamming into the drone defense system and getting dispatched in that way. (I mean there are 3 starfleet officers on that ship.) but we also needed to get 7 of 9 onto the ship, so there's that.
The engines behind The wings is a throwback to the Valdore class and it is a nice tie-in to Star Trek nemesis, and Deep space nine.
One of my favorite ships from star trek
Good to see another early romulan ship, as in TOS the only actual Romulan ship was the BoP and Romulan ships didn't appear in the movies at all(i believe).
I don't know why you conclude that the glow must be additional impulse engines. Why couldn't they be plasma intercoolers like on the refit Constitution pylons? They are both on structures that terminate with a warp nacelle.
Yes, that makes far more sense. Especially since they definitely upgraded the warp drive.
Thank god this isn't a "New version" of the Romulan fleet. Can't wait to see some Galaxy class ships. I feel like they are building up to a big surprise.
@Tech10K Enterprise-F would be amazing to see but it would only be 10 years in the future.. unfortunately.
But maybe a proto-Odyssey class :)
This was the first positive thing I've seen come out of Secret Hideout Star Trek. Great video as usual, guys!
I think once you reach a certain level of tech it becomes more plausible to continue to use a particular platform and still be lethal/useful. We're seeing it today with the US B-52 bomber projected to be in service into the 2040s. The internals get updated, but the original design gets the job done. Rafi mentioned using mothballed ships, I'm sure loads of those would be TOS era ships that are still space-worthy. In the Dyson's Sphere episode of TNG LaForge comments that Scotty's TNG-era ship could still run circles around the Enterprise at impulse. Depending on the scenario I love the idea of keeping older designs around.
The only problem I have with the Romulan Bird-of-Prey is that it could easily be a Starfleet ship - it's a saucer with 2 nacelles attached by struts.
It was basically a fight between a runabout and a small warship. Then in comes Seven's fighter craft, with heavy weapons but it's made of paper mache. It all made sense to me.
Is this now warp capable?
They always were. It's a silly myth that the BoPs weren't and all because of a throwaway line in Balance of Terror. Even in that episode the ship could do low-FTL speeds, fire a plasma weapon that could over take the Enterprise at full emergency warp and a year later several BoPs were able to surround and keep up with the Enterprise at warp five in The Deadly Years.
I remember when I saw the teaser I thought for a brief second that it was Picard and his merry band of misfits using that old warbird.
Oh how I wish instead of the not-Rocinante ship our hero’s are floating around in they used an old Romulan or Klingon bird of prey.
It would have even made sense in cannon. We know the Klingons sell off surplus ships (TNG-the rascals) and it would make sense if old Romulan ships can be had after the super nova balkanized the romulan state.
I've been calling the La Sirena The Not-Roci, too! The LS and the Roci have a very similar design language and the Roci's Operations Deck and the LS' bridge is very similar to one another!
NomNomCalm
I keep expecting Amos to round the corner
Mike DeMarco
That would have been cool too. It could have been a hodgepodge ship. A runabout with a Romulan warp engine, Ferangi sensors and Klingon disrupters. The La Sirena just doesn’t do it for me. I also don’t like the hologram controls but that’s just me.
It's a weird ship...
i could've gone for anything really...
So many options they could've taken, but they chose this.
Reminds me of a fan idea for the series made when all we had was a name.
It clearly won't ever happen, but maybe it'd make a good novel?
I probably can't explain it well, since the person that came up with it gave much more coherent reasons for how and why this scenario would come about...
Basically we had Picard and a bunch of younger cast members (And maybe someone else from the TNG era, like Geordi perhaps).
I forget many of the details given, but basically it amounted to getting a mission to do something or other and the ship they were on takes heavy damage and has to be abandoned. (somewhere far from easy rescue)
Somehow they find an old galaxy class ship out there, which is in really bad shape, but still has basic things like life support working.
The younger crew has no idea what to do with this old, barely functioning ship, but of course Picard and company (there's a reason why Geordi was the first choice) are very familiar with this kind of ship...
So we see this Galaxy class we're all really familiar with, and it's plus interiors, looking all run down, worn out and barely held together, but they fix it up bit by bit...
I mean I don't do it justice, but it was an interesting idea when I heard it...
Your awesome dude and awesome video be safe out there big fan of star trek
Might see more, this one might get patched together and come back after them. It was not destroyed after all, and now that little warlord will have a grudge. Otherwise, well like you chaps said, they are not the Federation flagship. Thus they aren't on the bleeding edge of an advancing fleet either. Picard is doing something none of the others really did. Show us what more everyday like folks lives are like in the Star Trek universe. Who knows what small things various groups might have scrapped together with the Federation seemingly turning inward to protect it's own territory and leaving the rest to fend for themselves. Which is kinda what this is looking like. Oh a big enough threat might pull a Starship out to deal with it. But the smaller things... this could get interesting!
Just loved the reworking of the romulan bird of prey the original series style one fantastic don't know about you guys but I'd love to see a bit more of 7of 9's ship.
This is like a small diesel yacht going against a refurbished WWI-vintage monitor.
Hmm, comparing to the stills from the trailers I think they reworked the model a fair bit. Used to have much brighter windows for one.
This fits in perfect as a TMP era upgrade. The Enterprise from the Constitution and the K'Tinga from the D7. This would be the Romulan upgrade with an effective warp engine, improved impulse, and weapons upgrades...courtesy of the tech transfer when the Klingons sold the D6/7 to the Roms.
It’s a really good ship. I’m fairly confident it’s a TOS visual reboot rather than a TMP BoP but I’m happy with it in either case.
I would have loved it if it had whipped out a TOS plasma torpedo which forces the hero ship to emergency reverse warp. I would have freaked out if that happened.
Regardless of which tv era (TOS, TMP), my impression was that it was a really old ship knocking around the civilian market for ever, perhaps at one time decommissioned from the Romulan fleet, sold, refit, sold again, revamped, stripped-down, built back up, refit (again), absorbed into merchant fleets, sold (more times), until it ended up in use by a warlord. Makes perfect sense to me. Obviously, the owners probably wouldn't have completely changed the contours (requiring dockyards and fleet infrastructure to do that) but the tweaks they did to the hull plating, cowlings, nacelles, etc. seem in line with decades of small updates by previous owners for various purposes.
Taken another way, even a WWI destroyer, which would be ineffective in today's military, would be a boon to some pirate off modern day Horn of Africa, if they were able to get their hands on one. Would be useful in caring a large boarding party and some of those guns could be upgraded to harass shipping routes and could even be updated with a knock off CIWS gun.
Why doesn't the Commander join you on Bridge Crew?
You all should do a review of the X-Bomber from the old 80s pupet show star fleet.
For context, the argument about the ship being overpowered would be like taking a king George the 5th class battleship from the 30s and complaining that a civilian freighter doesn't hold up against a broadside.
No visual or audio hailing, and no finding who the warlord as well. Looks cool.
Kinda hoping Sela turns up sooner or later, but I'm thinking season 2 at the earliest
Loving the PICARD content 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Extra armor plating may lead to extra impulse engines.
As much as it was great to see an update TOS bird of prey, calling it antique does throw more unwelcome light on use of DISCO shuttles. Enjoying Picard so some what willing to over look the shuttle on most part.
the Blinky lights all over the bottom is because it belongs to a warlord, he is pimping it out so you can't miss it. He never thought he would lose... and probably hadn't, up until this point. This ship isn't about cloaking and stealth, it's about making a statement. He could have easily flown in under cloak and blown the La Sirena out of the sky, but he didn't, they picked him up on long range scanners flying in. Like "heeeere's D'Johnny!". Possibly removed the old antiquated cloaking system in order to put more impulse engines in there.
I remember when you two were complaining that they weren't using an "era specific" ship. LOL Well it's an antique.
I like the idea that this is what romulan ships looked like during the motion picture Kirk era because we hardly ever got to see any of that in the movies. I don't think we actually ever saw a single romulan ship during the Kirk movies it was all about the Klingons or nothing lol.
Interesting design. Similar to Enterprise. I wonder if it was one of the original 60s Enterprise ideas.
GREAT series!
id buy this being a customised version that the warlord tweaked and modified
Could Captain Foley sound any less interested in being here?
La Serina is Star Trek's 03-K64 Firefly.
The vicarette India's aircraft carrier was built in world war II it was only decommissioned a few months ago. As it was still a practical vessel. Here in America, most national guard units have older equipment. In the Soviet Union well Russia now there are still hundreds of tanks that fought the German army in storage we mothball ships all the time. I personally have a mosin-nogat m91-30 rifle that was designed in 1891 refurbished in the 1930s by the Soviet Union as a light anti-tank weapon I can still blow a round through the engine block of a car; old doesn't mean useless. The shipping question was in the hands of some local Warlord it had most likely been an older design that had been relegated to low-level duty much like a cop car that this criminal element got his hands on and after the destruction of the romulan empire they're going to use what they can use.
In space there is no salt water corosion.
Its looking very cool.
Very similar to the Original ^^
Damn good work.
Maybe its was realy from the TMP era.
But it was see sadly to short in this Episode. ^^''
It's a warship verse like a speedboat or a well armed yacht
I disagree with you on there being 4 disrupters in the little boxes; I see 2 larger disrupters at the point where the wing meets the hull. The 4 slot boxes you are talking about are windows or something else. Honestly, I really don't like this ship compared to the TOS version.
What if the Picard Warbird looks the way it does because it has paneling and armor removed in order to reduce its inertia, increasing its impulse speed and acceleration? Armor in Trek does not seem to do much, unless it's Ablative Armor. But even then that never seemed to do much better than whatever the standard armor before that was.