Another impressive entry into what may become a definitive reference of the history of the vessels of Star Trek. Your narrative made the Romulons seem real. If not mistaken, I see a possible creator of a new sci-fi universe is in the making. Bravo Homer !
thanks really it all comes from wishing to see more of the Romulans that we get TNG came the closest but the Romulans haven't been given the spotlight in the way so many other aliens in trek have.
The dude is good. He gives you the back story of when these ships are designed. I also used a lot of stuff that is related to Star Trek canon that was not mentioned on any of the show.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 If not true in-universe, this makes the vessels and their design history seem more fleshed out. Given the detail on the complexity it reminds me of the ancillary media (New Essential Guides) for Star Wars and the in-universe details about the companies and races that created the droids and ships seen. Qapla! (Wrong species, but you get the idea)
The Rihannsu vessel in "Balance of Terror" is at least unofficially if not officially designated the "Talon" but the ship-*class* is the "T'liss", just for clarification.
I can't stop thinking that just on the heels of the Romulans FINALLY trying to make peace with the Federation, all hell broke loose....and many more Romulans died from the Hobus star that went supernova. Then, ole mining Captain Nero, because of his revenge, turns his little mining vessel into this massive, kick-ass Borg- squid like ship! Then, that's that....the death of the Star Trek's original concept of the past....ships, and all!
Nice! I always preferred to think, however, that the Klingon Bird of Prey, with its wing pattern, was obviously given to them by the Romulans who built it - just as the Romulans got D-7s built by the Klingons. That seems far more likely than that Klingons would build a bird-designed ship. (Of course, the real reason is that the baddies in ST III were going to be Romulans but they changed it at the last minute to Klingons). The model was designed to be Romulan, so making it a Romulan built ship sold/traded to Klingons already has a precedent and seems the perfect solution.
yeah i tried to suggest that with the fact that there was a joint program that got cancelled and the two sides went their own way but there is still a lot of overlap between the two.
As a child I always though the BoP looked like a crane, I seen those water birds just fly down into water reeds and start pecking at fish/ frogs like bloody murder.
Watching Balance of Terror, it seemed to me that the plasma torpedo dissipated because the plasma surrounded the guidance device, (that was too small to be seen on screen?). It made for great visuals, but it frustrated the elementary-school me that the plasma wasn't contained so the full force of the weapon could be delivered to the target.
Don't forget the Kzinti either. They only appear in ST TAS and ST V (Kirk is attacked by a Kzinti female in a bar). Apart from the Kzinti police ship shown in ST TAS, the only other ship designs are in the Star Fleet Battles wargame and the PC version Star Fleet Command 2.
My personal favourite is Mogai class (i calling it Mogai, since there is lot of debate around true name, Mogai seems fitting for me). I realy like that design.
They called it Valdore in Star Trek Nemesis. Although on Star Trek Online, they said it is an upgraded Neorexan. I guess you can think of like a more modernized Romulan Bird of Prey. If the D'Deridex is a battleship, the Norexan/Mogai/Valdore is a battlecruiser. It is fast, manouverable, and well armed. However, it does not have rear mounting weapons. A design defect easily explored by Shinzon when he dropped the cloaking device, purposely slowed the Scimatar down, thus allowing the Valdore to pass and disabling the ship from behind with its forward disruptors. It is a move from Top Gun when Maverick more or less tried the same manouver. Hey, they are both Paramount products.
FYI. Someone did do podcast on the Romulan Scimatar class from Star Trek Nemesis. It mentioned the Remans did have help from members of the Romulan millitary to design the ship in a secret location. It did mentioned the assasination of the Romulan Senate as seen in the opening scene of Star Trek Nemesis. Yes, there was a Senator that was part of the plot that left the chamber. However, on the podcast that was a different Senator that was not on Romulus at the time of the assasination. The Scimatar intercepted and easily destroyed that Senator's Naval Squadron, consisting of five D'Deridex Warbird. What the podcast mentioned which was not in the movie, the Scimatar was originally Romulan Navy project designed to destroy Earth as part of an Romulan invasion of the Federation. So, it does add in some critical details. A group of ex-slaves staging a rebellion, managed to single handily destroy a governing body, and create a massive and powerful battleship obviously had a lot og help.
that is true but TOS is not always consistent when talking about warp in the ways the other series are. fact of the matter is, as we understand it now it simply isn't practical to have a sublight warship. otherwise how would they get there. it may something unique to the prototype.
Great! Now tell us the story about how the Romulans lost their empire and every one of their ships right before their sun spontaneously exploded, and were dependent on ONE MAN to save them all.
Objection! ~ 3:15 Romulan ships in the 22nd century had no cloaking device, but only sensor jammers.. Ehm, sure at the one hand, with continuity, it would be plausible. But at the other hand, see ( ua-cam.com/video/Ih6_cvfedhQ/v-deo.html ). Unfortunatly the start of the scence is missing (Enterprise, 2x03, Minefield). Lt. Reed sees one Romulan ship ... decloacking. If it were only a sensor jammer, would this also affect optical sensors / the human eyes?
No sensor jamming was not the reason the ship could not travel at warp cloaked! TOS clearly says it’s a power issue! That’s not how cloaking devices work.its clear it takes a huge amount of power to cloak so the idea that it’s simply a sensor jammer is ridiculous. The first appearance of this tech was in the TOS episode “The Balance of Terror” which was based on a World War Two submarine vs battleship scenario. Submarines descend below the water. So too should the Romulan cloak be a kind of submarine dive. Given the power requirement and that it’s shown in cannon that the way to detect a cloaked ship is through “sub space fluctuations” akin or analogous to ripples in water. So Based on canon evidence above, it’s clear that the cloak isn’t just a sensor jammer. The ship actually “dives” in Subspace taking it out of the realm of our spacetime so that it cannot be detected visually or through sensors unless one looked for subspace anomalies. This explains: the invisibility, the inability for sensors to detect them in any other way than looking for a scientific indication of the cloaked vessel being there, and it would, int would completely explain the power consumption associated with the tech, and finally, most importantly, reconcile and completely explain the main tenant behind the technology in that it must come out of subspace to fire a weapon in our space time. If you agree with me please join me in getting rid of the ridiculous idea that cloaking is simply radar jamming.
sorry i should have been more clear. the Sensor jammer was used only on the T'varo during the 22nd century. and i say that so that the first use of a true cloaking device is still 'Balance of Terror.' and it uses the method you describe. my intention was to reconcile a continuity error in ENT 'minefield' and the 'Sensor Screen' i describe eventually became outdated (see my Romulan-Earth war series.)
Venom Geek Media 98 no need to apologize I’m simply offering a more suitable explanation for the limitations expressed by the dialog about cloaking devices. Your just going by what you might research on memory alpha and other sources which, to me continually don’t make any sense what so ever. why would sensors jamming tech be so high tech and unavailable to the federation? Applying a little common sense to lore would help reconcile a lot of Star Trek anomalies
Hyperspace/ subspace, .. Star Wars goes into hyper/subspace. Star Trek gravity surfs the surface of hyper/subspace. DC comics Phantom space drive is a more bit different and .. scary. All New 52 took the realm of the Phantom zone to a different and very cool level.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 Ego, human writers are still in debate on who came up with what in real life. And in Star Trek fiction, the Romulans like to say they came up with .. everything .. first.
I find the idea of a bird of prey in a way rendered obsolete in Romulan circles by the Norexen as due to that thing manuverablity is is in effect a workhorse and prey-bird. a potential idea would be lighten the armament shrink the norexen down and focus on stealth systems creating a small fast infiltration ship that can be used in squads to infiltrate a targets zone and rest idle in preparation for a main battle only revealing themselves when the enemy has committed and by that point it's too late either die in a head up fight to kerchans be out played and out fought by norexons or be chased down and destroyed by these smaller craft. simple effective and devastating the reason Romulus will always be feared
yeah so as i said in my episode on the Neorexan. the romulan logistics is optimized to support few numbers of large warbirds. and rather than try to compete with the jem'hadar fighter the romulans built the Neorexan a ship designed to hunt small attack craft. and their anti capital ship roles are already locked down by the D'deridex and later Kerchan. But a Traditional BOP could be useful as a skirmish and screening unit behind the lines. particularly something like the Shrike which is very self sufficient.
Love the videos. My only bit of what I hope you will view as constructive criticism is this: stop using the term “draft”. In naval terms it describes how deeply a ship sets in the water not the overall height. For example, a ship with a draft of 20 feet has a distance of 20 feet between the ship’s bottom (or keel) and the water line. A further term is “freeboard”. That is the distance between the waterline and the main deck. Keep up the good work sir.
you make a good point. generally i use naval terminology because they are best applied to starships. but yes given that there is no waterline in space draft is something of a inaccurate term.
@Uad Incorporated not sure but i would guess that given that subs can surface. the draft would be what ever was below the waterline when surfaced. i think sci fi should take greater inspiration from submarine design.
I've actually always just used the more common term; "Height". I've seen some fan sites use "Decks" but that is very inaccurate term since some compartments can occupy several levels of internal volume.
- Little Factoids* in Star Trek III: The search for spock, The Villains were originally set to be Romulan. But they switched the villains to Klingon. They still kept the Bird of Prey. This is when/why/how Klingons got their own Bird of Prey, Though Canon has never really explained, It's likely Klingons made their own Bird of Preys, at least in my own head canon. During the D7/Cloaking tech exchange. I'm thinking the Romulans gave a Bird of Prey, with an outdated cloaking device, to the Klingons to reverse engineer, in exchange for the fleet of D7s. - This is how Rodenberry explained as to why the Romulans were using Klingon D7 ships in the TOS era. - In the Canon, In 2268 there was a short lived alliance; Romulans traded out-dated (By romulan standards) Cloaking tech to the Klingons in exchange for a fleet of D7 Class ships. This means that the Klingons did not have Cloaking tech until 2268. Seeing as ST;Discovery took place from 2256-2258, Non of the Klingons ships should have had Cloaking devices yet. Also the TOS episode; The Enterprise Incident, Had Kirk, & Spock steal a cloaking device from Romulan Empress Ael i-Mhiessan t'Rllaillieu's niece, Commander Liviana Charvanek, played by (Joanne Linville,) She was the first Female Commander of a ship on Star Trek. - Meaning the Producers of Discovery didn't know jack about Stat Trek Canon. - Also Star Trek: Enterprise established the reason TOS klingons looked more human, was because in 2154 they infected themselves with the Augment Virus. - Again, Meaning the Producers of Discovery didn't know jack about Stat Trek Canon. --- There is a few discrepancies in cloaking tech, In 2151, Enterprise encountered Suliban Cabal Cloaking ships. In 2152, Enterprise encountered a Romulan Cloaked minefiield, with the 2 John Eaves Bird of Preys equipped with cloaking devices, Wah Chang designed the Romulan BoP for TOS, Allot of folks are critical that Eaves design is to futuristic to be a precursor to Chang's design in comparison. Star Trek Online uses Eaves design for the newer T'varo class Variant with that thought in mind. Everyone still loves the design even though most think it looks to cool to be older than the Wah Chang design. In 2256, Star Trek Discovery says Klingons have cloaking tech, But this does not match up with established canon. Klingons were barely figuring out how to use their new Romulan traded Cloaks in 2269. As established by multiple Canons, ST:3 The Search for Spock, The Animated series, & DS9. In 2266, TOS: 'Balance of Terror' The Enterprise plays cat, & mouse with a cloaking Romulan BoP, In 2268, This is when the Romulans trade a cloaking device to the Klingons for D7 Ships, This is also when Kirk/spock steals the newest cloaking device from Romulan Commander Liviana. It's a Cloaking device superior to all old Cloaking devices. Which explains why the Romulans gave away their hand me down design to the klingons, It also helps explains why the Klingons distrust Romulans. Sell the old design for ships, keep the new stuff. :D - In 2269 The first Klingon ship is equiped with a Cloaking Device, the IKS Klothos. Commanded by Kor, who used it in the battle of Caleb 4. This was established in the Animated Series, as well as Deep Space , where Core made a live action appearance, & Star Trek III the Search for spock. This is why the Klingons could not have had Cloaking tech in 2256, Disco had it wrong. - In 2286; Star Trek 4, The Voyage Home. This is when we see a Klingon "Bird of Prey" It was meant to be Romulan. But changed Canon forever, & of course, Kirk steals it. Flies it back to Earth to steal some whales.
Short range?! 100,000 KM is *short range*?! Phasers are only really effective at less than 10,000 KM to maximum effect at that, but they can shoot to 400,000 KM; and the Plasma Torpedo goes out to 420,000 KM at that! In addition, in the Star Wars universe, the laser weapons only have a maximum range of 2 KM at that, aside from the superlaser on the Death Star. And the T'Liss Bird of Prey is only about 40 yds at maximum distance in its dimensions; so it is tiny, but has immense firepower and range with its weapon for its size.
Even if your ship is moving at 1/4th of light, and firing weapons at near light speed .. you still will have to be at close to 40,000km away from each other to even have the chance at dodging in coming phaser fire. At 20,000km your ship will get hit like 14x per second. As for the Star Wars RPG, staring with WEG west end games in the mid 1980's all the way to WotC D&D 3.5e system to 4e Saga edition, the listed Space Travel Time between a planet to its nearest moon is 30minutes. Base on our earth/ moon distance Star Wars ships travel 107km per second. In WEG 5sec. combat round a ship travel Space Unit is base on 535km/ rnd. And each class of spacecraft had their own given number of units of travel. So Star Wars .. laser .. weapons have a greater range then 2 KM. Also the other argument is, it take traveling 12km/sec just to get into orbit and close to 40km/sec to leave Earth's orbit. So laser/ particle blaster cannon range and speed has to be faster/ greater then spacecraft/ starfighter engine speed and the other guys reflex to roll his craft out of weapon's lock before the projectile hits his transport. And human boxing rabbit punching and knife fighting reflexes around 7 hit/ sec. So base on given range the projectile base speed will have to be around 280/ 300km per sec. Then figure out the kinetic impact of a 1milig of iron dust charge MAC driver that electro magnetic charge which fired it to the other spacecraft.
Love this video! Too bad there isn't a Wings of Romulus video spotlighting the Romulan D7 "STORMBIRD" battle cruiser. As seen in the animated series and the Star Fleet Battles game.
there is an episode of 'Wings of Kahless' covering the D7. given that is a imported design i didn't feel that the stormbird necessitated its own video.
Please try to include the Gorn Scorpion Destroyer from the TOS series. Or better yet! The Gorn fleet. Will never forgive TNG for not including the Gorn in at least 2 episodes in 7 seasons.
yeah i guess they wanted to distance themselves from TOS monster aliens. but given how they've been updated in ENT STO and Star Trek'2013' they are definitely due a comeback. much like the tholians.
@@CZ350tuner from what i see there are two gorn design styles a more serpentine style found in the Gorn raider. and the Bulkier more robust shapes. given their limited screen time its difficult to decide which is a better fit.
Short Range?! 100,000 KM is short range?! Because that's the maximum range that a Plasma Torpedo will do its maximum damage; whereas a Phaser is only really powerful out to about 3,500 KM, radically shorter range, and a Photon Torpedo is effective anywhere between 2 and 8 "clicks", that being between 20,000 and 80,000 KM. Come on; since when is 100,000 KM short range, especially in terms of a ship that's a mere maximum of 50 yds in any one direction from another direction as far as the size of the hull? Give me a break!
so the reason i say its a short range weapon is because thats how a lot of literature describes it. additionally im not sure where those numbers come from. i don't really think dialogue is a good point of reference because it can be pretty inconsistent. a Phaser definitely has a longer range than you suggest. more like 150,000km (Half a light second) because its a hitscan (travels at or close to the speed of light.) torpedoes have a lower speed as projectiles, but have greater range due to tracking abilities. i do not know if the plasma torpedo has a lock on, but as i say, its a plasma field around a projectile which is why it dissipates over greater distances.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 Starfleet Command actually is the source of that data, and also such things do tend to make sense; what the Plasma Torpedoes do have in their favor is that they dissipate slowly as far as damage goes, but they do dissipate. Phasers are devastating in point-blank range, but not nearly so well-functioning in longer ranges, they are, however, much better in point-defense. Kirk tries to use a phaser battery in such a manner in Balance of Terror, and in the end he's forced to snipe endlessly at the Romulan vessel to overwhelm it with damage; and added bonus to him is that the Romulans have to choose between shields and cloaking, at that time, that is. One major reason, at least in the novels for why they took on the practice of using Klingon vessel types is to have warp capacity to fight their cold-war against the Gorn, who were approximately equally matched with them, but radically differently.
Another great video! And I'm hoping to see one on the old Nova Z-1 class - www.ststcsolda.space/romulans/Z-1/Z-1.html (which was also one of my favorites in the old DC comics)
i may do. of the FASA ships its a pretty good fit for the TMP era the main issue i have is that there really aren't many pictures of it which makes doing a video a bit tricky.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 Would gameplay video work? I'm pretty sure it was modded into that Sins of a Solar Empire mod (www.moddb.com/mods/sacrifice-of-angels-2/images/romulan-z1-nova-class1) so that might work... But yeah, I see what you mean by the lack of pictures- which is a shame, it being such a lovely design
A real Klingon and I Discovery Klingon the only thing they've done in common is that they're both humanoids that's it you look like a separate speak anyone with eyes can see this any Star Trek fan of good conscience can I just ignore this garbage 8 discovery ruined Star Trek just like a Disney ruined Star Wars everyone must stand up and say no it should be boycotted I thought this JJ movies were bad pair to Discovery for cinematic masterpieces
I like how you make these historical videos about the romulans but when you try to make them about the Klingons the discovery Klingon sticks out like a turd in a punchbowl please do not show discovery especially the Klingon it's a slap in the face to All Wheel Star Trek fans anyone the Box Discovery is not a real Star Trek fan I would accept it if they would say it was from a parallel universe can't even accept it as a reboot because of the look of the queen on it have to be a parallel universe will Klingon Evolution was different
its nothing personal they just aren't as cool and menacing as Romulan ships. with regard to doing a series on starfleet ships i haven't ruled it out. but its easier to make episodes with an already existing format.
I like pizzas, but not ship-like pizzas. All they have is 250 different versions of stretched, elongated, short and fat or triangular pizza-like saucers with 2 of the same ish types of cylindrical nacelles on sticks. Constitution, Excelsior, Intrepid, etc I find it very boring and un-original. I play Star Trek online, and you can see the repetitiveness. Agreed, im pretty biased for Romulan aesthetics tho, and even if they have very few total types of ships, there is at least a lot of distinctions between the designs of say a T'liss, a D'derides and a Scimitar. It is sad Romulans were never developed and used much in Star Trek in general. I saw a company last week, don't remember which, that sold books on ship design drawings, but only had Feds and Klinks, sadly. I would definitively bought a Romulan lore/graphics encyclopedia. If those deviant art or other images could be translated into a nice 3D render, i would totally buy me a 3d printer and print me a nice fleet.
It was already so much done about Starfleet ships I used to love track yards until I got on the JJ Discovery bandwagon I hate Discovery run away the garbage mainly because of the Klingons if they would just say it was a parallel universe I could accept it
17:30 Nice to see my "Phoenix class" heavy cruiser get some attention! :)
Love seeing the old FASA designs get some love.
Another impressive entry into what may become a definitive reference of the history of the vessels of Star Trek. Your narrative made the Romulons seem real. If not mistaken, I see a possible creator of a new sci-fi universe is in the making. Bravo Homer !
thanks really it all comes from wishing to see more of the Romulans that we get TNG came the closest but the Romulans haven't been given the spotlight in the way so many other aliens in trek have.
The dude is good. He gives you the back story of when these ships are designed. I also used a lot of stuff that is related to Star Trek canon that was not mentioned on any of the show.
correction. when and why these ships are designed. He used a lot of stuff
@@venomgeekmedia9886 If not true in-universe, this makes the vessels and their design history seem more fleshed out. Given the detail on the complexity it reminds me of the ancillary media (New Essential Guides) for Star Wars and the in-universe details about the companies and races that created the droids and ships seen. Qapla! (Wrong species, but you get the idea)
@@bermanmo6237 At least this seems better than reading a Memory Alpha article about the "creation" that's rarely mentioned for the craft
The Klingon at 10:23 is Richard Hatch from the Axanar Fan Film (and Galactica)
The Rihannsu vessel in "Balance of Terror" is at least unofficially if not officially designated the "Talon" but the ship-*class* is the "T'liss", just for clarification.
I can't stop thinking that just on the heels of the Romulans FINALLY trying to make peace with the Federation, all hell broke loose....and many more Romulans died from the Hobus star that went supernova. Then, ole mining Captain Nero, because of his revenge, turns his little mining vessel into this massive, kick-ass Borg- squid like ship! Then, that's that....the death of the Star Trek's original concept of the past....ships, and all!
Nice! I always preferred to think, however, that the Klingon Bird of Prey, with its wing pattern, was obviously given to them by the Romulans who built it - just as the Romulans got D-7s built by the Klingons. That seems far more likely than that Klingons would build a bird-designed ship. (Of course, the real reason is that the baddies in ST III were going to be Romulans but they changed it at the last minute to Klingons). The model was designed to be Romulan, so making it a Romulan built ship sold/traded to Klingons already has a precedent and seems the perfect solution.
yeah i tried to suggest that with the fact that there was a joint program that got cancelled and the two sides went their own way but there is still a lot of overlap between the two.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 cool :)
As a child I always though the BoP looked like a crane, I seen those water birds just fly down into water reeds and start pecking at fish/ frogs like bloody murder.
im a great lover of romulan ships,very powerful weapons and look gorgous.
Plasma Torpedoes are basically a miniature sun that is shot at a ship or a base; of course it is extremely destructive.
Watching Balance of Terror, it seemed to me that the plasma torpedo dissipated because the plasma surrounded the guidance device, (that was too small to be seen on screen?). It made for great visuals, but it frustrated the elementary-school me that the plasma wasn't contained so the full force of the weapon could be delivered to the target.
Congrats on one year! I would love to see you continue the series with some of the lesser known races (Cardassians, Dominion, Breen, etc.)
might do there's really not much about them for a whole episode but maybe in a series about the dominion war.
Don't forget the Kzinti either. They only appear in ST TAS and ST V (Kirk is attacked by a Kzinti female in a bar).
Apart from the Kzinti police ship shown in ST TAS, the only other ship designs are in the Star Fleet Battles wargame and the PC version Star Fleet Command 2.
Yeah that would be great if he can leave out the discovery Klingons
@@CZ350tuner I always thought she was a Draylaxian.
Great work
My personal favourite is Mogai class (i calling it Mogai, since there is lot of debate around true name, Mogai seems fitting for me). I realy like that design.
i also have an episode about that as well. personally i always knew it as Neorexan.
They called it Valdore in Star Trek Nemesis. Although on Star Trek Online, they said it is an upgraded Neorexan. I guess you can think of like a more modernized Romulan Bird of Prey. If the D'Deridex is a battleship, the Norexan/Mogai/Valdore is a battlecruiser. It is fast, manouverable, and well armed. However, it does not have rear mounting weapons. A design defect easily explored by Shinzon when he dropped the cloaking device, purposely slowed the Scimatar down, thus allowing the Valdore to pass and disabling the ship from behind with its forward disruptors. It is a move from Top Gun when Maverick more or less tried the same manouver. Hey, they are both Paramount products.
FYI. Someone did do podcast on the Romulan Scimatar class from Star Trek Nemesis. It mentioned the Remans did have help from members of the Romulan millitary to design the ship in a secret location. It did mentioned the assasination of the Romulan Senate as seen in the opening scene of Star Trek Nemesis. Yes, there was a Senator that was part of the plot that left the chamber. However, on the podcast that was a different Senator that was not on Romulus at the time of the assasination. The Scimatar intercepted and easily destroyed that Senator's Naval Squadron, consisting of five D'Deridex Warbird. What the podcast mentioned which was not in the movie, the Scimatar was originally Romulan Navy project designed to destroy Earth as part of an Romulan invasion of the Federation. So, it does add in some critical details. A group of ex-slaves staging a rebellion, managed to single handily destroy a governing body, and create a massive and powerful battleship obviously had a lot og help.
Awesome Videos and thank you. And may your Podcast live long and prosper.
Love the Harconen music
Your videos are EXCELLENT!
thanks crazy to think its the 1 year anniversary of this series.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 I am crazy about your channel. You do good work...Im watching it again...
Your awesome
This was a brilliant episode man!👍
I am wondering if a two layer jacketed sensor beam could get through that scattering field. 3:27
multispectral sensor suites are able to detect them but that tech was a long way off at that point.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 Oops it slipped my mind as to the star date when this encounter took place
Even I Kirk's time the Romulan "bird of prey " didn't have warp dive! Scotty said in Balance of Terror , "The're drive is simply impulse"
that is true but TOS is not always consistent when talking about warp in the ways the other series are. fact of the matter is, as we understand it now it simply isn't practical to have a sublight warship. otherwise how would they get there. it may something unique to the prototype.
WTW is sunlight warp ? I've been watching "Trek" since "66" (I was 5) & I' ve never herd of that before!
@@johntoothilljr.5328 sorry i mean't sublight.
Even then the ship had to "decloak" to fire, & when she fired on Enterprise she warped away far enough for the Romulan Plasma weapon to disapate .
In a later TOS episode, when the Enterprise is being pursued by Birds of Prey, Spock gives their maximum speed as Warp 4.
Great! Now tell us the story about how the Romulans lost their empire and every one of their ships right before their sun spontaneously exploded, and were dependent on ONE MAN to save them all.
some including many romulans speculate foul play that the Romulan sun did not go supernova as a result of 'Natural causes'
@@venomgeekmedia9886 still, where was their fleet?
Very interesting and well done video!
Super informative video. Thank you for sharing your time and knowledge.
Objection! ~ 3:15 Romulan ships in the 22nd century had no cloaking device, but only sensor jammers..
Ehm, sure at the one hand, with continuity, it would be plausible. But at the other hand, see ( ua-cam.com/video/Ih6_cvfedhQ/v-deo.html ). Unfortunatly the start of the scence is missing (Enterprise, 2x03, Minefield). Lt. Reed sees one Romulan ship ... decloacking. If it were only a sensor jammer, would this also affect optical sensors / the human eyes?
your right. but i'd just ignore that on the basis of the producers being stupid.
No sensor jamming was not the reason the ship could not travel at warp cloaked! TOS clearly says it’s a power issue!
That’s not how cloaking devices work.its clear it takes a huge amount of power to cloak so the idea that it’s simply a sensor jammer is ridiculous. The first appearance of this tech was in the TOS episode “The Balance of Terror” which was based on a World War Two submarine vs battleship scenario. Submarines descend below the water. So too should the Romulan cloak be a kind of submarine dive. Given the power requirement and that it’s shown in cannon that the way to detect a cloaked ship is through “sub space fluctuations” akin or analogous to ripples in water. So Based on canon evidence above, it’s clear that the cloak isn’t just a sensor jammer. The ship actually “dives” in Subspace taking it out of the realm of our spacetime so that it cannot be detected visually or through sensors unless one looked for subspace anomalies. This explains: the invisibility, the inability for sensors to detect them in any other way than looking for a scientific indication of the cloaked vessel being there, and it would, int would completely explain the power consumption associated with the tech, and finally, most importantly, reconcile and completely explain the main tenant behind the technology in that it must come out of subspace to fire a weapon in our space time. If you agree with me please join me in getting rid of the ridiculous idea that cloaking is simply radar jamming.
sorry i should have been more clear. the Sensor jammer was used only on the T'varo during the 22nd century. and i say that so that the first use of a true cloaking device is still 'Balance of Terror.' and it uses the method you describe. my intention was to reconcile a continuity error in ENT 'minefield' and the 'Sensor Screen' i describe eventually became outdated (see my Romulan-Earth war series.)
Venom Geek Media 98 no need to apologize I’m simply offering a more suitable explanation for the limitations expressed by the dialog about cloaking devices. Your just going by what you might research on memory alpha and other sources which, to me continually don’t make any sense what so ever. why would sensors jamming tech be so high tech and unavailable to the federation? Applying a little common sense to lore would help reconcile a lot of Star Trek anomalies
Hyperspace/ subspace, ..
Star Wars goes into hyper/subspace.
Star Trek gravity surfs the surface of hyper/subspace.
DC comics Phantom space drive is a more bit different and .. scary.
All New 52 took the realm of the Phantom zone to a different and very cool level.
its a warbird....not a bird of prey
this channel is the best
This Star Trek episode that this video is about, "Balance of Terror"
timeless classic from TOS.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 Yes , I agree . I don't just view Star trek I tend to live it .
How can there be a debate about who coined the phrase Bird of Prey?
when Romulan Historians and Klingon Chroniclers have too much Romulan ale/ Blood wine Respectively... thats academics for you.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 Ego, human writers are still in debate on who came up with what in real life.
And in Star Trek fiction, the Romulans like to say they came up with .. everything .. first.
Personally I'm more of a fan of the Star Trek Armada Shrike-class design.
I find the idea of a bird of prey in a way rendered obsolete in Romulan circles by the Norexen as due to that thing manuverablity is is in effect a workhorse and prey-bird. a potential idea would be lighten the armament shrink the norexen down and focus on stealth systems creating a small fast infiltration ship that can be used in squads to infiltrate a targets zone and rest idle in preparation for a main battle only revealing themselves when the enemy has committed and by that point it's too late either die in a head up fight to kerchans be out played and out fought by norexons or be chased down and destroyed by these smaller craft. simple effective and devastating the reason Romulus will always be feared
yeah so as i said in my episode on the Neorexan. the romulan logistics is optimized to support few numbers of large warbirds. and rather than try to compete with the jem'hadar fighter the romulans built the Neorexan a ship designed to hunt small attack craft. and their anti capital ship roles are already locked down by the D'deridex and later Kerchan. But a Traditional BOP could be useful as a skirmish and screening unit behind the lines. particularly something like the Shrike which is very self sufficient.
This was so awesome thank u thank u.
its called a Warbird. The BoP is the logo.
warbird and bird of prey, or stormbirds are all types like frigates, cruisers, battleships.
The officially licensed model (from the 70's) was titled Romulan Bird of Prey. So, it was a BOP for decades before ST:III.
Love the videos. My only bit of what I hope you will view as constructive criticism is this: stop using the term “draft”. In naval terms it describes how deeply a ship sets in the water not the overall height. For example, a ship with a draft of 20 feet has a distance of 20 feet between the ship’s bottom (or keel) and the water line. A further term is “freeboard”. That is the distance between the waterline and the main deck.
Keep up the good work sir.
you make a good point. generally i use naval terminology because they are best applied to starships. but yes given that there is no waterline in space draft is something of a inaccurate term.
@Uad Incorporated not sure but i would guess that given that subs can surface. the draft would be what ever was below the waterline when surfaced. i think sci fi should take greater inspiration from submarine design.
@Uad Incorporated Draft of a submarine is when it is surfaced, not submerged.
@Uad Incorporated Periscope depth is not a measure of the sub's size but rather a measure of how deep the sub can go and still use it's periscope.
I've actually always just used the more common term; "Height". I've seen some fan sites use "Decks" but that is very inaccurate term since some compartments can occupy several levels of internal volume.
New to the channel but you dont sound very venomous.
an old name from before i started making videos. kinda stuck...
just out of interest are you planning on doing ships from other IPs in this amazing format? i would love too see SW and 40k!
might do probably with a slightly different style.
- Little Factoids* in Star Trek III: The search for spock, The Villains were originally set to be Romulan. But they switched the villains to Klingon. They still kept the Bird of Prey. This is when/why/how Klingons got their own Bird of Prey, Though Canon has never really explained, It's likely Klingons made their own Bird of Preys, at least in my own head canon. During the D7/Cloaking tech exchange. I'm thinking the Romulans gave a Bird of Prey, with an outdated cloaking device, to the Klingons to reverse engineer, in exchange for the fleet of D7s.
- This is how Rodenberry explained as to why the Romulans were using Klingon D7 ships in the TOS era.
- In the Canon, In 2268 there was a short lived alliance; Romulans traded out-dated (By romulan standards) Cloaking tech to the Klingons in exchange for a fleet of D7 Class ships. This means that the Klingons did not have Cloaking tech until 2268. Seeing as ST;Discovery took place from 2256-2258, Non of the Klingons ships should have had Cloaking devices yet. Also the TOS episode; The Enterprise Incident, Had Kirk, & Spock steal a cloaking device from Romulan Empress Ael i-Mhiessan t'Rllaillieu's niece, Commander Liviana Charvanek, played by (Joanne Linville,) She was the first Female Commander of a ship on Star Trek.
- Meaning the Producers of Discovery didn't know jack about Stat Trek Canon.
- Also Star Trek: Enterprise established the reason TOS klingons looked more human, was because in 2154 they infected themselves with the Augment Virus.
- Again, Meaning the Producers of Discovery didn't know jack about Stat Trek Canon.
--- There is a few discrepancies in cloaking tech,
In 2151, Enterprise encountered Suliban Cabal Cloaking ships.
In 2152, Enterprise encountered a Romulan Cloaked minefiield, with the 2 John Eaves Bird of Preys equipped with cloaking devices, Wah Chang designed the Romulan BoP for TOS, Allot of folks are critical that Eaves design is to futuristic to be a precursor to Chang's design in comparison. Star Trek Online uses Eaves design for the newer T'varo class Variant with that thought in mind. Everyone still loves the design even though most think it looks to cool to be older than the Wah Chang design.
In 2256, Star Trek Discovery says Klingons have cloaking tech, But this does not match up with established canon. Klingons were barely figuring out how to use their new Romulan traded Cloaks in 2269. As established by multiple Canons, ST:3 The Search for Spock, The Animated series, & DS9.
In 2266, TOS: 'Balance of Terror' The Enterprise plays cat, & mouse with a cloaking Romulan BoP,
In 2268, This is when the Romulans trade a cloaking device to the Klingons for D7 Ships, This is also when Kirk/spock steals the newest cloaking device from Romulan Commander Liviana. It's a Cloaking device superior to all old Cloaking devices. Which explains why the Romulans gave away their hand me down design to the klingons, It also helps explains why the Klingons distrust Romulans. Sell the old design for ships, keep the new stuff. :D
- In 2269 The first Klingon ship is equiped with a Cloaking Device, the IKS Klothos. Commanded by Kor, who used it in the battle of Caleb 4. This was established in the Animated Series, as well as Deep Space , where Core made a live action appearance, & Star Trek III the Search for spock. This is why the Klingons could not have had Cloaking tech in 2256, Disco had it wrong.
- In 2286; Star Trek 4, The Voyage Home. This is when we see a Klingon "Bird of Prey" It was meant to be Romulan. But changed Canon forever, & of course, Kirk steals it. Flies it back to Earth to steal some whales.
The Winged Defender was always my favorite Romulan ship.... It looks and is Badass.
its good but for me the whitewind is so underrated.
Short range?! 100,000 KM is *short range*?! Phasers are only really effective at less than 10,000 KM to maximum effect at that, but they can shoot to 400,000 KM; and the Plasma Torpedo goes out to 420,000 KM at that! In addition, in the Star Wars universe, the laser weapons only have a maximum range of 2 KM at that, aside from the superlaser on the Death Star. And the T'Liss Bird of Prey is only about 40 yds at maximum distance in its dimensions; so it is tiny, but has immense firepower and range with its weapon for its size.
Even if your ship is moving at 1/4th of light, and firing weapons at near light speed .. you still will have to be at close to 40,000km away from each other to even have the chance at dodging in coming phaser fire. At 20,000km your ship will get hit like 14x per second.
As for the Star Wars RPG, staring with WEG west end games in the mid 1980's all the way to WotC D&D 3.5e system to 4e Saga edition, the listed Space Travel Time between a planet to its nearest moon is 30minutes. Base on our earth/ moon distance Star Wars ships travel 107km per second. In WEG 5sec. combat round a ship travel Space Unit is base on 535km/ rnd. And each class of spacecraft had their own given number of units of travel. So Star Wars .. laser .. weapons have a greater range then 2 KM.
Also the other argument is, it take traveling 12km/sec just to get into orbit and close to 40km/sec to leave Earth's orbit. So laser/ particle blaster cannon range and speed has to be faster/ greater then spacecraft/ starfighter engine speed and the other guys reflex to roll his craft out of weapon's lock before the projectile hits his transport. And human boxing rabbit punching and knife fighting reflexes around 7 hit/ sec. So base on given range the projectile base speed will have to be around 280/ 300km per sec. Then figure out the kinetic impact of a 1milig of iron dust charge MAC driver that electro magnetic charge which fired it to the other spacecraft.
Love this video! Too bad there isn't a Wings of Romulus video spotlighting the Romulan D7 "STORMBIRD" battle cruiser. As seen in the animated series and the Star Fleet Battles game.
there is an episode of 'Wings of Kahless' covering the D7. given that is a imported design i didn't feel that the stormbird necessitated its own video.
I'd like to see a Romulan Bird of Prey VS Rodan!!!!🦇🦇🦇🦅🦅🦅🦅winner must fight Ghidorah--!!🐉🐉🐉
given that the plasma torpedo could probably ignite the atmosphere it probably wouldn't last long. but that is a simultaneously cool and stupid idea.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 ..... Ghidorah was a interstellar monster, dummy.
not necessarily in atmosfere.....
Please try to include the Gorn Scorpion Destroyer from the TOS series. Or better yet! The Gorn fleet. Will never forgive TNG for not including the Gorn in at least 2 episodes in 7 seasons.
yeah i guess they wanted to distance themselves from TOS monster aliens. but given how they've been updated in ENT STO and Star Trek'2013' they are definitely due a comeback. much like the tholians.
The Gorn fleet in Star fleet Battles has a fantastic design ethos and style.
@@CZ350tuner from what i see there are two gorn design styles a more serpentine style found in the Gorn raider. and the Bulkier more robust shapes. given their limited screen time its difficult to decide which is a better fit.
How do you only have 1.3K subs? Love your channel
I was enjoying this vid until 10:38 when you showed the abomination of the Klingorcs.
Alex Kurtzman: *"Whom do you serve?"* Orc: *"Kurtzman!"*
Hello, u Don't need wings in space, only if u have a atmosphere, for lift!
John Toothill Jr. it can land
The Romulans lack transporter technology even by the TOS period so landing the whole ship is essential if one wants to put troops on the ground.
Great jop!..... :)
Mad rabbit , I hear you I was in the Navy for 9 yrs. some ppl. don't know our lingo.
Short Range?! 100,000 KM is short range?! Because that's the maximum range that a Plasma Torpedo will do its maximum damage; whereas a Phaser is only really powerful out to about 3,500 KM, radically shorter range, and a Photon Torpedo is effective anywhere between 2 and 8 "clicks", that being between 20,000 and 80,000 KM.
Come on; since when is 100,000 KM short range, especially in terms of a ship that's a mere maximum of 50 yds in any one direction from another direction as far as the size of the hull?
Give me a break!
so the reason i say its a short range weapon is because thats how a lot of literature describes it. additionally im not sure where those numbers come from. i don't really think dialogue is a good point of reference because it can be pretty inconsistent. a Phaser definitely has a longer range than you suggest. more like 150,000km (Half a light second) because its a hitscan (travels at or close to the speed of light.) torpedoes have a lower speed as projectiles, but have greater range due to tracking abilities. i do not know if the plasma torpedo has a lock on, but as i say, its a plasma field around a projectile which is why it dissipates over greater distances.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 Starfleet Command actually is the source of that data, and also such things do tend to make sense; what the Plasma Torpedoes do have in their favor is that they dissipate slowly as far as damage goes, but they do dissipate.
Phasers are devastating in point-blank range, but not nearly so well-functioning in longer ranges, they are, however, much better in point-defense.
Kirk tries to use a phaser battery in such a manner in Balance of Terror, and in the end he's forced to snipe endlessly at the Romulan vessel to overwhelm it with damage; and added bonus to him is that the Romulans have to choose between shields and cloaking, at that time, that is.
One major reason, at least in the novels for why they took on the practice of using Klingon vessel types is to have warp capacity to fight their cold-war against the Gorn, who were approximately equally matched with them, but radically differently.
Another great video!
And I'm hoping to see one on the old Nova Z-1 class - www.ststcsolda.space/romulans/Z-1/Z-1.html (which was also one of my favorites in the old DC comics)
i may do. of the FASA ships its a pretty good fit for the TMP era the main issue i have is that there really aren't many pictures of it which makes doing a video a bit tricky.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 Would gameplay video work? I'm pretty sure it was modded into that Sins of a Solar Empire mod (www.moddb.com/mods/sacrifice-of-angels-2/images/romulan-z1-nova-class1) so that might work...
But yeah, I see what you mean by the lack of pictures- which is a shame, it being such a lovely design
vivat Reipublicae!!!
Anyone else notice the Romulan Star EMPIRE doesn’t have a emperor and instead has a senate that makes the governmental decisions
Your voice 😍🥰😋😏
#MakeTheNeutralZoneGreatAgain
A real Klingon and I Discovery Klingon the only thing they've done in common is that they're both humanoids that's it you look like a separate speak anyone with eyes can see this any Star Trek fan of good conscience can I just ignore this garbage 8 discovery ruined Star Trek just like a Disney ruined Star Wars everyone must stand up and say no it should be boycotted I thought this JJ movies were bad pair to Discovery for cinematic masterpieces
I like how you make these historical videos about the romulans but when you try to make them about the Klingons the discovery Klingon sticks out like a turd in a punchbowl please do not show discovery especially the Klingon it's a slap in the face to All Wheel Star Trek fans anyone the Box Discovery is not a real Star Trek fan I would accept it if they would say it was from a parallel universe can't even accept it as a reboot because of the look of the queen on it have to be a parallel universe will Klingon Evolution was different
Move all of your videos off China tube, and over to bitchute. Spread the word 🇺🇸
so i guess you dont like star fleet ships
its nothing personal they just aren't as cool and menacing as Romulan ships.
with regard to doing a series on starfleet ships i haven't ruled it out. but its easier to make episodes with an already existing format.
I don't like starfleet ships mainly because they all look like different shapes of stretched out pizzas. I like the defiant tho.
@@pierrebelanger5416 so i take it you don't like pizza? for me its more that the bad guys always get the cool stuff.
I like pizzas, but not ship-like pizzas. All they have is 250 different versions of stretched, elongated, short and fat or triangular pizza-like saucers with 2 of the same ish types of cylindrical nacelles on sticks. Constitution, Excelsior, Intrepid, etc I find it very boring and un-original. I play Star Trek online, and you can see the repetitiveness.
Agreed, im pretty biased for Romulan aesthetics tho, and even if they have very few total types of ships, there is at least a lot of distinctions between the designs of say a T'liss, a D'derides and a Scimitar. It is sad Romulans were never developed and used much in Star Trek in general.
I saw a company last week, don't remember which, that sold books on ship design drawings, but only had Feds and Klinks, sadly. I would definitively bought a Romulan lore/graphics encyclopedia.
If those deviant art or other images could be translated into a nice 3D render, i would totally buy me a 3d printer and print me a nice fleet.
It was already so much done about Starfleet ships I used to love track yards until I got on the JJ Discovery bandwagon I hate Discovery run away the garbage mainly because of the Klingons if they would just say it was a parallel universe I could accept it