Tuning Your Rifle's Gas System
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- Опубліковано 7 лип 2024
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A lot of DI (Direct Impingement) AR-15 / M4 rifles are overgassed, and occasionally undergassed. If your rifle is over / undergassed, this can create problems. Both with respect to reliability, extra wear and tear on parts and possibly an unnecessarily strong recoil impulse.
In this video I will show you how to determine if your rifle is over or undergassed. And if it is overgassed, I will show you some simple parts you can swap out in order to get it running the way it should.
And if you don't want to go this route, the turnkey solution is to pick up a Adjustable Gas Block, such as the one made by Superlative Arms.
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Simple, intelligent and directly address the issue with clarity and logic, thank you for not wasting the first 4 minutes of our lives on explaining what a buffer & spring is
155 grain DAYUM thas a heavy bullet for .223..../5.56...
Ya, it is pretty legit...
Guards,..take him away.
So, what happens when you run a 62 grain fmj with the new buffer? I'd imagine you're "overgassing" issue was cause by the hot round.
@@Larping101 Pretty sure he just meant to say 55 grain, a 155 grain 223 bullet would be like 3 inches long or something
@@KitBadger Are you an idiot or just acting like one for this video only? I mean you did affirm your 155 grain comment.
Great video. Trent cracked me up @0:42 when he contemplates the idea of shooting 155 grain 5.56.
I've watched so many videos... and for once this one explained exactly what's happening, with no bullshit, straight to the facts and the video was relatively short.
Great job boys! Thank you
3 years later, and still helpful!🤘🏻
Thank you! I thought mine was running a little rough. Way over gassed!
Glad to help!
I think there may be more to ejection pattern than this... like maybe extractor and or ejector strength/tension? I was experimenting with buffers the other day and had what I would consider an odd result. I was shooting a BCM 14.5 w/ BCM BCG, and carbine buffer tube/buffer spring/buffer. Using several different load of ammo, the brass essentially fell out of the at about 1:00, only ejecting maybe 1-2 feet away. Very uniform. Bolt lock back no problem.
Then I tried a H1, H2, and H3 buffer. In all cases the brass went into essentially the same pile, about 4:30, and maybe 8-10 feet back. Bolt lock back no problem.
Then I tried a lower with a longer BCM MK2 buffer tube ("A5"). T0 buffer, similar result to carbine buffer. T1, T2, T3 buffer, essentially the same result as H1, H2, and H3. In all cases bolt lock back no problem and brass landing in the same place.
I was happy to see the broad range over which the gun would operate, but I expected see some kind of difference between those buffer weights. When I didn't, I questioned why that might be. Any ideas?
You are correct... this is a complex phenomenon. As long as the cases are not dented / damaged and suitable to reload, let it eat.
Thanks for a short yet informative video!
what a great informative video a true gem for learning to tune your rifle without an adjustable gas block thanks Kit helped me a lot
Awesome, glad to help Thomas!
Excellent video. Explained very well and with amazing presentation. Thank you guys so much
Excellent video. I do like the professional delivery- clear, concise info and I dig the Jam cover song🙂🇬🇧
Thanks man!
Nice video!! It would have been more appropriate with having “Eton Rifles” for the song opener, just my rant. I love THE JAM!! Oi!! Oi!!
Effective and simple explanation with a nice visual
Right on, thanks for watching!
Outstanding video! Thank you!
Being a dissy guy, I would say if you're under gassed then be sure you're running a carbine weight buffer, not an h1, h2, h3, ECT. When you start running lighter race gun parts, then start expecting race gun like reliability. It's great for 3 gun, not so great for anything serious. A lot of light weight carrier, buffer, and spring options on the market are designed specifically to be run with adjustable gas blocks. Basically, tuning required. It also should be said that some carriers made out of certain materials have a significantly shorter life span and heavily milled carriers might be more prone to failure. All not a big deal on a race gun, but huge when some ones life might be on the line. There are other factors to address such as gas port size and dwell time as well. On a home build, these can get you in trouble some times. Most of the time you'll be fine, but some times not so much. You might run into this being more of an issue if you're having a barrel cut down, but some times manufacturers still get it wrong. For example, DD over sizes their gas ports on their Mk18 uppers. It's certainly better than being under gassed though. If you ran weak .223 ammo on a Mk18 upper built to Crane specs you might see some failures due to under gassing. There is a lot to this stuff.
Thanks for the input Brad. All valid points man!
No problem man. There's numerous ways to skin this cat. So long as you get the desired results, you're all good. Can't wait to see more videos.
Right on Brad. Should have something out soon. Suuuuper busy at SHOT show. :)
Just wow. Straight forward knowledge. Rare in these Trump days. All I'm gonna do for recoil mitigation on my M&P is install a ultradyne Apollo.
@@ronbow1947 Having just got done with a TON of training and having been putting a lot of time in lately, I'd honestly say working on your technique is the most important thing. Don't rely on technology. I actually went to shooting my harder to shoot guns to really drill in recoil control. I thought I was good and there wasn't much room for improvement, but man was I wrong and I cant speak for you any one else, but I'm sure a lot of people also have room to grow as well. After you get that down, then that's when you really start to see a difference running muzzle brakes and messing with gas systems. A brake on a properly gassed gun will take you a long way without having to get crazy with the the gas system though. In the end it will present a hell of a lot less potential headaches.
Awesome put together video.
Thanks man!
Awesome! Easy to follow and learn from. Thanks for the education
Now I know what I will be looking for the next time I go shooting. As always Ivan great music.
Right on, glad to share knowledge, and good music! 🤘
Great refresher video for me, thanks so much fellas!
Awesome, thank you for watching!
Thanks for the clear, simple explanation for a fixed block system.
Glad to share it man.
Thank you for making this video! It really helps me with my AR.
Awesome, glad to help!
Great information. Really beneficial to a newbie to the AR world.
Thanks.
This helped me with my ruger 556 shooting 55 grain 556. Ejection was 2 o’clock. Now I’m at about 4
Nice!
Nice video. Well done.
Ive seen a lot of newbies that were having issues with bolts not locking to the rear on an empty magazine. They assumed it was the magazine and began to modify the magazine by cutting around it to "make it work". No one should ever have to modify anuthing on a gun to make it work. What they didnt realize that having the wrong buffer system was the culprit. Even having the wrong length buffer tube will cause huge issues. Yep. The buffer system as a whole is so important and critical to the gun working. Its just not some spring and a buffer.
Damn thanks for the vid. Appreciate it.
Hey, boys, Karl here in Denver.
I've been working on a solution to my Daniel Defense
with a JP captured recoil spring system that won't lock open on an empty magazine.
Adding tungsten weights was the recommendation. I will be testing on Saturday. Your spent brass/clock is very useful. Thank you for the clear
explanation. Karl
Awesome Karl, glad to have helped!
Amazing video. To the point and easy to understand.
Thanks Dennis, glad to help.
Just what I needed to see, Tks.
Glad to help.
Thank you, this helped a ton. Best regards, Ben.
Very useful!
Kit badger rocks.
Thank you for making this video! You now have a new subscriber.
Right on Jake, thanks for subscribing.
Reppin' Liberty Cans :-)
Nice info Ivan.
Thanks man!
Thanks for the info...helps a lot
Awesome, glad to help!
You got a new subscriber here. Great Video. Thanks for the info!
Awesome, glad to hear it Rob!
nice, simple and very comprehensive demonstration :) common sense well applied
Thanks!
Thank you!
Nice job fellas.
Great video 👍🏽
Great video. Still learning
Right on, glad to help.
Thanks, very helpful
Right on, glad to hear it Kenneth.
Love how near the end you joke about being screwed if it's under gassed lol. Threw me off for a second because the video was serious and then you pop that joke. Awesome content and video I subbed and liked. Your good bro really cool..
You also want to make sure the bolt locks back to the rear after the last round
On an empty magazine.
And not on the carrier face
awesome video love your channel
Thanks Tim, I appreciate you watching!
I swap 1 thing at a time if im unsure of the problem and put the old part back if not then problem and move to the next most likely suspect. Slow and steady wins the race. And if i may its not as hard on the pocket that way.
Love the intro music. Sick!!
I've been looking for 155gr 556 or 223 ammo for 4 years now and haven't had any luck.......
Kit's buddy's face looked like Napoleon Dynamite when he said it. Hilarious
HAHA
Well done video
Thanks man, I appreciate that!
I use a H2 buffer, and a extra power spring [red]
Thanks for the video guys, I have just learned of the most valuable lessons in my life.
Glad I could help man, thank you for watching.
I had to do all three ..... H3, heavy spring and supervative gas block on my 7.5. Now the pattern is at 3-4
Nice, glad you got it squared away.
Thank you so much🙏🤘
No problem, glad to help.
Thanks, guys for a professional mature presentation, absent the immature macho attitude of spewing profanity like so many other trainers think "real men" are supposed to do, but obviously they're clueless and insecure little boys.
Thanks for the kind words man. I just work at getting actionable information out and at the end of the day its easier me being me.
Trying this today with the JP buffer. Added the heaviest buffer spring according to their chart with 3 tungsten weights. Hope it works 😅
Easy way. Thanx
No problem, thanks for watching!
Great video! I noticed the 155g comment but knew what you meant ...no chop busting from me :-) Thank you, for sharing!!
Thanks man! For both appreciating my video and not giving me a hard time. :)
Where can I get my titanium 5.56? 155g is wild lmao
Their advice for an under gassed gun can work but if you want to keep using the same parts it's best to open the gas port. If that's too difficult, you can try using a lighter buffer.
have been wondering this for a while, but since theres so many billet uppers and aftermarket changes to the traditional m4 upper and brass deflector if ejection pattern still determines gassing. I have an aero upper without a forward assist, and really no change in spring strength or buffer weight changes the ejection pattern, like I can with my BCM upper
Good point, and I should probably have addressed this... As you move away from, for lack of a better word, "Spec" uppers, this will become less reliable. Good catch man.
Geissele Super 42 is buttery smooth with no TWANG, highly recommend
I may have to look into one of those. I have seen them, but never had a chance to put my hands on one.
Personally I think it's too expensive for what it is. Strike Industries flat wire spring is the better option in my opinion in both cost as well as function although I will admit I haven't used a Super 42. SI flat Spring claims to do everything the super 42 does but at 1/3rd the cost and it has a far longer service life of 1million cycles vs the super 42 of double the life of a standard spring which is vague but from my research is about 10k rounds so 20K for the super 42. But to each their own, if you can afford it and it's what you want I say get it. Being pleased with your tools is always a great feeling.
I'm not familiar with the Strike Industries. I'll have to try one of those at some point. Thanks for sharing man.
Me: trying to find a way to fix an undergassed gun. Them: If its under gased youre pretty much screwed. 😮😢
Does grain weight and powder play a part in the over/under gassed system?
Gonna have to do this. ThAnKs DaNiEl DeFeNse.
Excellent, wondered how one would correct that!
It is pretty easy ultimately. Although I do really like the adjustable gas blocks, especially if I am going to use suppressors.
Literally just watched a video this morning on an adjustable gas block(superlative arms) and the most impressive thing to me was when the user adjusted the gas to be a little more restricted it actually increased his fps by 70+ fps out of a 16" barrel!
That is pretty rad. I wouldn't have guessed, and not having a chronograph, wouldn't have know.
After this comment I noticed you had a video on the same adjustable gas block I was talking about lol. What are the odds.
Thanks for the video. Informative and straight to the point. Question. Does Trent speak? LOL!
Haha, sometimes...
@@KitBadger LOL! Just wondering!
The explanation on the system was great but could you comment on what weight buffer you changed to and what the part number for the Wolf spring is?
Alright! Very good! I built an AR-15 chambered in 6.5 Grendel, and have no idea if I'm using the correct buffer/spring combination. It's a rifle-length barrel and gas-system, but has an adjustable, carbine-type butt-stock; therefore a carbine-rated spring and buffer. I've been wondering if I should purchase a heavier one. This video will at least give me a great starting spot to make that determination. Thanks, KB!
Awesome Ken, glad to help!
*STAINLESS FLATWIRE SPRING by David TUBB or others ... might be an option... SOME OF US run the TUBB AR-10 FLATWIRE STAINLESS BUFFER springs and H2 or H3 BUFFER in CAR-15 16" carbine gas ... with good results.*
This is super useful. I think we just became best friends.
Glad to help. :)
Was just wondering on what grain ammo you used, 55 grain American eagle? BTW love the channel good job on the content especially the music. Keep up the good work!
Hey Dan, I think we were shooting his 55grn. American Eagle that he had.
Thanks for the kind words man, I appreciate you watching!
It is a fast .223 load, like 3200fps.
155 grain American Eagle. Mega based.
Good video 👍. I have a 300 blackout 8.5". I guess I need to split the difference on ejection pattern of subsonic vs supersonic
I would probably edge towards 4 o'clock with with subs and take whatever you get with supers (probably a little overgassed).
Thanks👍have a good one
I'm curious how a rifle buffer tube would work against the adjustable carbine buffer tube already on his barrel. If he wanted to switch to a DoubleStar ACE 9.9" stock for example how would that work? Could he just get a rifle spring and use the same carbine buffer or what?
Or buy a new barrel with the gas port size you want. From Sprinco they have mentioned that typically going with a heavier spring and lighter buffer offers less felt recoil/sight displacement than going with a heavier buffer with a lighter spring. It seems like a lot of people just slap a heavier buffer in their rifle when maybe going to sprinco blue or red and keeping the same buffer might perform better.
Gas key on carrier OR use a BRT Ez Tune gas tube.
Thanks!
Mine is over gassed and was leaving rip marks on the casings along with other feeding issues. It broke the extractor claw off. So now that I know what’s wrong I need to know if a heavy buffer will work in my all commercial spec carbine. I found a stoner h1 cheap but it’s labeled as mil spec. I know tubes are different sizes but Is there a difference in the buffers and springs? I wanted to know if the buffer would fit and if the Wolff xtra power spring would fit. Mine is 16” all commercial spec,A2 sight,carbine gas system,commercial bolt carrier,original was fixed stock and changed to adjustable Tapco which is lighter standard buffers. I can’t remember if I fired it before it was changed it’s been so long ago so I’m not sure if that caused the issue or not. Would a h1 be enough?
So I have a 16" Mid length gas system on my AR and I guess it ejects in the 3-3:10-3:15 position. I changed the buffer weight from the standard carbine buffer that came with my lpk to an H2 but I didn't change the spring. I still have the same spring that came with the original buffer and I'm still having a 3:00ish ejection pattern. I'm guessing I need to change the spring?
When the rifle gets extremely dirty the gas length will act differently.
A carbine will act as a mid
A mid will act like a rifle length
An a rifle length will stop working
Does the clock method take for granted that the shell is deflecting off the forward assist?
so if its undergassed will a lighter spring or lighter buffer help? My trigger doesn't reset on .223rem, 18in rifle gas tube, 223wylde a chamber. it cycles but I'm left with a dead trigger after each round and have to switch back to safe, then to fire again. dont say "just use 556".
That is odd. I’d look at the gun as a whole. Is it stock?
Damn... What camera are you using? Looks amazing!
Panasonic LUMIX G7.
Newbie question but my AR is overgassed so I got a Springco Blue spring and a PWS H2 buffer. It shoots much better now. Do I still need an adjustable gas block to cut down on internal wear and tear of parts?
so whats happening if there coming out the same just some is higher an some is lower? as is the case with mine
Having your ammo eject that way all the time can be an issue with lower powered ammo, or dirtier/inconsistent ammo
I think you just have to be honest with yourself in the application of the weapon. Do you shoot cheap steel cased ammo all the time? Do you clean your weapon regularly? Are you using this to put holes in paper at 25 yards...? Good points though.
Tune your rifle with the lowest power stuff YOU plan on using (Federal Tactical Rifle .223 55-gr. in my case), then your game time ammo like XM193 will run just fine. Gun manufactures build their guns for everyone not know what crap ammo they may throw in there, so they over gas and hope for the best. if you don't shoot crap ammo, turning down the gas a bit is a non issue.
Looks like the brass were ejecting between 4-5 o clock after the spring and buffer install.
It was solid 4 o'clock (despite the camera angle) which is the sweet spot for the shooter. You can push it closer to 3 if you're really concerned about reliability though.
Awesome vid, that’s brutal filming a man while he’s trying to put in a buffer spring 😂😂😂
I would have loved to have seen this done 1 part at a time.
Maybe in another video, and when it isn't freezing out. :)
You have any brand / model recommendations for a first time AR buyer? It's such a huge ocean of options out there it's hard to know where to start.
If I was going to buy an AR off the shelf today, I would look hard at one by BCM (Bravo Company). They make some real quality rifles at a fair price.
What buffer weight would u recommend for a 16” 450 bushmaster?
Is this pattern only relevant coming straight from the ejection port? Mine are hitting off the deflector then ending up in that 1:30-2 zone
Does the 'clock' method take into account the deflector?
Yes, it takes into account the deflector. So your gun is probably a little overgassed.
3:40 😂😂😂
I have an issue where my gas block came loose and was over gassed after I put everything back together. Any ideas?
My 10.5 “ AR 15 is ejecting at around 2 or 2:30 with a spring co red spring installed. Do you think need an h2 or h3 buffer to get it where I need?
An H2 or H3 will help, or install an adjustable gas block.
Will an H2 buffer normaly solve over-gas at 1-2 o'clock ejections with any ammo brand?
No.
“Old guy-Newbie” here...is there any downside to an adjustable gas block? (I’m just getting ready to buy or build) And secondly when you did your buffer/spring change in the video, is there a rule of thumb to keep the changes proportionate? Example...it doesn’t sound like you would just change the spring, or just change the buffer. I’m guessing that only changing one of them might have another undesirable affect and not solve the problem. What is the wisdom inside the buffer/spring change? Thanks for a very professional video.
Personally, I like adjustable gas blocks because I shoot suppressed a lot. And a lot of guns are over gassed. Not really any downside.
Ivan, does barrel length have any bearing on an AR's inherent tendency to be over/under gassed? For instance, with a 7.5" barrel AR pistol, is your 3-4 o'clock ejection ideal still hold true?
Typically your shorter barreled rifles will be overgassed, but with respect to the 3-4, it should hold true. That ejection window is basically indicative of the bolt carrier speed, ie. gas system.
If you are gunna run a AR pistol with that short of a barrel, take my advice and go right for the adjustable gas block, save yourself some head ache. I run a H3 buffer and M16 BCG in mine and still had to turn the gas down. runs butter smooth now and is reliable which some say is impossible in a 7.5" barrel.
You still didn't fix the high gas issue, just mitigated the recoil. What's this going to do if you now run it suppressed? Swap springs? I would get an adjustable gas block.
Also 155gr rounds? Did you mean 55gr?
I didnt know Ryan hunter reay was into guns!
Great video. For undergassing is a lighter buffer weight and/or buffer spring a feasible solution?
Possibly, but usually a larger gas port.
@@KitBadger Thanks! Makes sense.
This is the way it works for 223 AR-15’s, but my experience with AR-10’s was the opposite. When I was overgassed my rounds would fling back to 4-5 o’clock, and undergassed we’d be 1-2 o’clock.
I don’t know if that’s like a documented thing, but that’s how my AR-10 is and took me forever to figure out
New to the AR platform here, how about when the buffer has indentation/ markings (from buffer hitting the retaining pin) on it around the perimeter, what would be the problem?
I'm not sure without seeing it.
It may be doing that because it's violently over gassed or the lower might be slightly out of spec.. Or could be a cheap buffer, - Does your buffer have a cheap coating on it that's just chipping away? I've seen plenty of buffers get small nicks from slamming into the retaining pin tho, I'd say as long as you aren't sheering them off then it's proly fine. Sometimes it just goes to a certain point until it's rested/supported up behind the bcg more.
I'd guess that 80-90% of mid length and shorter gas system guns are overgassed by design. It's done most likely for reliability with all the cheap steel cased ammo out there.