Forest Temple, Balancing Tutorial & Challenge - Dungeon Design in Zelda (Twilight Princess HD)
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- Опубліковано 30 лип 2024
- The Forest Temple of Twilight Princess is a good dungeon, better than I remembered in fact! Its design is wonderfully interconnected in a way that makes back tracking not feel like back tracking! Let's take a closer look.
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0:00 - Intro
0:24 - Before The Dungeon
11:41 - Dungeon Themes & Progression
29:47 - The Dungeon Boss
32:37 - Conclusion
#Zelda #Dungeon #TwilightPrincess - Ігри
Twilight princess link got that farm boy strength
I agree the intro was very long but it made a lot of sense in terms of world building and taking the player out of that 'safe bubble tutorial area' (Ordon Village) gradually. I wish there was more of a backstory to 'Ordon Village' as this settlement seems more far away from the rest of Hyrule. What made people decide to live way out there? The rescue mission was definitely something new to the series and a welcome addition to changing up the formula a bit throughout the game and before the first dungeon.
The forest design and general surreal/realistic graphics and art style were definitely an excellent progression for the Zelda Series as it captures that more 'adult' and 'dark/mysterious feel' that previous 3D instalments had for the series and this really works in Faron Woods and The Forest Temple and really for most of the areas in the map (I really wish BotW continued this direction but ah well...).
The Forest Temple with its emphasis on 'ambient, bass-like percussive instrumentation and tribal-like melody' to me suggests a call back to Woodfall Temple in MM - a lot of thematic similarities but the upgraded graphics and art style made the experience so much more immersive to the player. I was not too bothered about the lack of melody as previous Forest Temple-like dungeons have similar ambient sounds - The Forest Temple in OoT was also ambient but it was more memorable for me and very mysterious. For the first main dungeon in the game, the dungeon layout was not straightforward and the creative use of using NPC characters (The monkeys) was really clever and innovative for forging new paths throughout the dungeon and again, a great call back to the monkeys from MM. I really like the similarities you mentioned between WW's Forbidden Forest Doors to The Forest Temple in TP and I think that's totally possible given that the two games may take place in a theoretical parallel timeline from each other... I wish that there could be at least some backstory to The Dungeons themselves and their purpose explained more throughout the game but maybe something to improve upon for future game instalments... I loved how the enemies - spiders, deku babas, wall-spiders, like-like deku baba thing... and the giant sized deku babas really suited the aesthetics of The Forest Temple and the spiders in particular were particularly creepy. An odd detail but I loved the wood coloured textures in this dungeon, it seemed much more realistic. The mini-boss was exciting and cool and the dungeon item which is a frequently returning item to the series had a new spin on it with housing a fairy of wind.
The dungeon boss has a more creative design and the way in which the mini-boss (controlled by a parasite previously) helps you now is really an interesting change-up to your standard Zelda Boss Fight. There is more skill required than just hitting the obvious weak-spot and this boss-fighting combat should be commended for shaking things up - the combined use of your boomerang and bombs worked really well - the surprise at the beginning added more of climatic build-up to the boss revealing itself. All things considered it was an enjoyable battle and not too difficult for the first dungeon boss and learning about the 'fused shadow' at the end of the fight was curious and engaging for me as a player and I'm sure to others too.
If you were gonna complain about a long drawn out intro section, THIS is the game that deserves it.
I'm not a picky guy. I play what's in front of me. And I had no problem with Twilight Princess's intro OR Skyward Sword's intro.
But in Twilight Princess I CAN see how it would frustrate certain players.
We all play differently & those who like to get into the action WILL be put off by Twilight Princess' long long intro.
I think Skyward Sword did this progression better & a bit more organically so I STILL disagree with you on your take for that intro.
But I can see how the goat-herding & forced tutorials can be a bit much for you in this one.
The way I play is thorough & detailed. I LIKE going through the NPC dialogue & I would return to certain places after events to see what they say & how they react to the new stuff going on. I LIKE to smell the roses so I enjoyed Farm Boy Link & School Boy Link.
The world they built was put together with so much care that I wanna honor the devs by combing through it, you know.
Yet some people play Zelda for the dungeon crawling & certain Zelda games bog down the pace of getting to them. I understand.
I always had it in my mind that the Forest Temple in Twilight Princess is the remains of the Deku Tree that died in OoT. The assumption being that the Kokiri moved in and turned it into a Temple. Ultimately we don't know the true fate of the Kokiri in the Child timeline, unlike the Adult timeline where we know they become the Koroks. We also don't know what happened to the sprout in the Child timeline, although I do think it's important that we never actually saw it in the Child timeline.
Finally the Twilliht Princes desingn series is here. Thanks CaptBurgerson :)
Twilight Princess is one of my two favorite Zelda Games. Majora's Mask is what made Zelda click for and get me into the series with it's super unique theming leading what isn't different (Amazing dungeons) more isolated in a way that made the series strongest elements shine even brighter for me and had me wanting more. The Zelda experience is something I can't get enough of which is what makes Twilight Princess my other favorite Zelda game as its such a long and consistently enjoyable experience, and all of that Zelda to sink my teeth into is just great!
IMO one way they could improve the Goat herding maybe decrease the amount of valuable rupees around the village and make Goat herding an optional way to earn an easy 20-30 Rupees (Maybe faster gets you more?) The game would push you to do so as it's a more solid option for money but not critical to progression and making it feel like the players choice. and maybe give Link an empty bottle instead of free milk to give use for any extra rupees.
I do understand the Devs wanting the player to get used to the horseback riding before giving them the open fields of Hyrule.
I can agree that the beginning is long and slow but I'm so tolerant about these sections that I hardly have an issue with em, especially when the payoff (dungeons) is so good!
Also thanks for pointing out the hard-to-notice but substantially higher-effort changes to TP HD compared to WW HD's minimal but highly effective visual changes. Wind Waker's artstyle certainly didn't need much of a touch-up to look better (But I did think the GC engine it was built in looked like it was starting to show its age a little. HD in a way addresses this) wheres a more realistic artstyle like TP can always benefit from touch-ups
I was looking forward to watching this all morning when I woke up. Can't wait for more on one of my all-time favorites!
I had just started watching this series. Perfect timing because I’m almost finished
This game was extra-Ordon-ary.
I'll see myself out.
Great ear! I never would have heard the echoes of the skull kid mini-game in the Forest Temple theme but I think you’re spot-on with that reference.
Awesome video, excited to binge this series. TP is what got me back into gaming in general in my late 20s after a long hiatus. Played it on GameCube and it’ll always hold a special place in my heart. Thanks for sharing HD footage! Cool to see
I honestly really enjoy this dungeon sound. I love twilight princess because honestly I feel like it looks more modern than Skyward Sword and is more complex.
TP definitely leaned more into realism with its graphics while I feel like Skyward Sword is kind of a combination of TP and Windwaker's cartoonishness
What makes Twilight Princess one of my favourites is the ability and option to learn more sword combat techniques, something BOTW/TOTK could've done as a side quest for Link after he meets with Impa in Kakariko
Woooo!!! I adore TP! This is my favorite art style in the series, and I love the dark tones in this game too 😋 MIDNA IS AMAZING!! If my username wasn't Tetra, it probably would have been Midna lol 😝 I played TP on the original Wii and honestly didn't know about the map flip until you streamed it on your channel 😝 The textures really do look much better, and I didn't realize they redrew them fully! That's dedication 👍🏼 JEBBE 😍 I really love the monkeys in this game tho 🥰 Zelda is so pretty in this one 😍 the crotch shot is the only way to kill people, burger... C'mon, you didn't know that? 😜 Dude, I love your theory about the forest temple!! That really does make a lot of sense. I absolutely love how much treeish this first dungeon is 💚💚💚 the short tune from the theme is so eerie 😝 okay, so I never used oocoo during game play, but I love having a companion so I never really minded her appearance 😂 Midboss monkey is sad monkey... He's got a terrible insect problem 😝 I really enjoy the music during that fight lol 👍🏼 the boss keys in this game are really epic in appearance. I feel like this is a really solid first dungeon! I love everything in forests, so might be a little biased 😜 great video, burger!! Excited for the next 😋👍🏼
I love looking at the paragraph as a whole and seeing all the emojñis... so playful !
YESSSSSSSSS!!!!! Tp is my favourite game of all time! Can’t wait for the rest of the series!!!!
That monkey song is an actual jam I don't know how i missed that
On the topic of the 'monkey calls' of the dungeon theme... I think it's basically a history-faded version of the Kokiri Forest theme... Must like how Breath of the Wild has timeworn variations of classic themes in its soundtrack.
I am of the personal opinion that the Twilight Monkeys are another Kokiri variant, and after untold centuries have lost most of their iconography short of that spiritual symbol, which remains from the time the Deku Tree had been alive and the symbol possibly being carved in memoriam after his passing.
Top tier video, sir.
29:32: Sounds like that would be the name of a certain herb strain.
HUGE MONKEY ROPE
I will die on the hill of absolutely adoring the opening to this game. I wish more Zelda games had similarly slow openings, it does a great job of building the world and the connections Link has with his friends, and contrasting the epic journey you'll be on later. Then again, I may be in the minority here, and I can understand why. Chapter 1 of RDR2 did something similar, being very slow paced and focusing on characters, and I absolutely adored it.
Ok damn, I normally didn't watch this series but for some reason I clicked this one and now Im literally just binging this stuff...
Thanks for giving it chance! :)
YESSSSS! I’ve been waiting for this one! 🖤🖤
YESSSSS TWILIGHT PRINCESS I HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR THESE!!!
Also I love the title card!! Nice!!
The spiders in this game scared me
Wow that mid boss song is a BANGER.
Also I love the fact that monkey had his own character arc
Even monkeys deserve second chances bro
Malo IS too powerful :D
Great video, Capt! I'm a bit late, as I was on vacay, but I'm back now! Weeeeee!!!
Welcome back Rin!! Hope your trip to Texas was a good one!
Glad you enjoyed the video :)
I’ve been watching your series and I assumed you had a million subscribers at least. Keep up the good work! Just subbed.
..............AWESOME 💪
Just subbed Daniel 👊
Personally I loved this Forest Temple and the theme. It felt more “in the deep woods” vibe rather than it being (in theory) an ruined fortress (OoT). It focused on having more wood like tone, structure and visuals
TP is my favorite Zelda game.
mhmmmmmm adored the intro homie, heck ye
And the rest of the video, just had to comment when the coolness hit.
So I've never actually minded the goats. Or any of the early game for that matter.
The herding triggers my puzzle solving responses, which is always fun for me. And I like to treat the whole thing as basically a dungeon of a sort. Only way out is to clear the objectives.
to be fair, the fire temple in Oot had an ambient song too that you wouldn't simply hum either.
Probably can’t hum it but it does live in my head rent free
I can’t wait for the Arbiter’s Grounds one.
I named my son Arbiter
I wonder if "ordinary" was, if fact, what they were going for.
I like to get Uli's cradle for her without first finding out it's missing.
Also, Jaggle has my favorite He Knows About Timed Hits dialogue thus far, in which he reveals that he's been trying to teach his children that you need to hold L and press A to talk to people from a distance, but they're having trouble understanding, so he thinks maybe you can get through.
Oh, yeah. OoT's Forest Temple seems to be more brick and stone and carpeting, while this Forest Temple is a lot more wooden. I was just thinking how similar it seemed to the Forbidden Woods it seemed when you said it.
My favorite thing about Ook's theme is how the trumpet or brass or whatever section comes in with a reference to OoT's Forest Temple. Compare to the synth voices part. I only realized it last year. It kinda makes me wonder if 1) there's more I'm overlooking about this song (am I hearing the Minuet of Forest's note sequence near the beginning?) and 2) if the other midboss themes have similar things going on with them.
Ook himself is unique among the midbosses of this game in a couple of ways, and nearly unique among the midbosses in another way. He's the only midboss you see both before and after the fight, the only midboss who shows up during the dungeon boss fight to help you, and one of only two midbosses to wield the dungeon item.
In response to your Forest Temple naming theory: "The Forbidden Woods" --> the deku tree (sprout) is present, and renamed it "The Forbidden Woods" to remind the Kokiri--evolved into Koroks--to stay out. In TP, the Deku Tree is not present. I can tentatively assume, in the child timeline, that the Deku Tree dies, and the sprout never happens, or at least not the at the same time or place. The Kokiri then either die out or evolve into monkeys instead of Koroks. The adult timeline, with its flooding of the world, explains a lot: e.g. the Forbidden Woods being vertical.
"The fine details of geograph in Zelda are rarely consistent, rather only being consistent in broad strokes" well put
I always think of this being symptomatic of the timeline differences, and--stretching theory--that each map just kind of appears out of nowhere, there are no definitive Hylian cartographers. Dream quest: getting an incorrect map and having to correct it. Windwaker starts to dabble in this, revealing the map in pieces and allowing for historical misunderstandings like "Triumph Forks"
Maybe it's just me, but I kinda like how the first dungeon doesn't have an immediate benefit for clearing it, since at this point in the story we are very much at Midna's beck and call and we don't know her motives yet. It's only after Link starts completing his personal goal, rescuing the kids, that the act of completing the dungeons directly helps people. It's a nice, if incidental, touch.
Love dat Grango Ober Jebbe!
Jam lover Jebbe is the bestest
Man i love these videos! But sometimes it feels more like a walk through rather than design or detail. But i have watched all of them lol
The boss may have a hit-eye, but at least it's visually not the exact same hit-eye design since 2015, since the MM remake.
I think the tune is played by Makar in Wind Waker before you teach him the Wind God's Melody? When he's practicing under the waterfall. But it's kinda split up, maybe?
That little melody section reminds me of the "duh" theme and the fire nation theme from avatar the last airbender (and the fire nation "duh" theme by extension lol)
18:48 could you mean the Tak and the Power of Juju theme as that’s what I was thinking of
Ah yes the forest temple, my head canon is that this forest temple is the dead deku tree
oh the tunic definitely belonged to a post majoras mask link
oot link might of just left it behind due to memories or just wore it out or needed something with a little more protection
something major did go down between mm and tp
Droppin likes, left and right, sleepless nights bring me to Zelda videos, and this series is fantastic
Thanks Vince! Hope you can get some sleep my friend.
@@CaptBurgerson maybe 2 hours? Awake again. Gotta work in an hour now and I just wanna call in sick, lol fack
Going from Twilight Princess to Skyward Sword, I could not fathom why they removed swinging the sword while running. Even more than 10 years after first playing it, I can't figure out why they'd take that out.
Yay!
While Majora’s Mask and Wind Waker are my favorite games in the series, I think Twilight Princess overall is a perfection of the Zelda formula. Everything about the game is pure Zelda at its greatest, and honestly when I think of “Zelda”, usually Twilight Princess is what comes to mind. Honestly I would tell people if they were to only play one Zelda game, it should be Twilight Princess.
frankly i think the chores at the start of tp are a kind of world building
i guess you could consider it character building?
or immersion building?
like yeah its boring
but it shows multiple things like the animals getting skittish with the goats not listening and the monkeys moving into the village
and it shows how... unadventurous links life is
Yeah, I think they were also attempting to show that Link doesn't wake up as a Hero, he starts like a dude and then grows into the role. They did a similar thing in Wind Waker and Skyward Sword too, which I think was an attempt to add texture to the beginning of the game and the origin of the character prior to game events.
the forest temple does have loops but also have good player directed backtracking moments. this might be one of the more underrated dungeons in the game.
Woooo!!!
The tune you can't place sounds like the Ballad of Gales (warp song) from the Wind Waker to me.
If it IS the ballad of gales then that would fit perfectly considering the ties to the wind element and that this is where you get the Gale Boomerang! 🪃
I admittedly have many issues with TP, but the intro is one of the biggest ones for me. I know people complain about the SS intro (and it isn't exactly short either) but this one feels so much worse I think partially bc it FEELS like you're idling. The goat herding, tutorials with the kids, etc feel like you're just doing side stuff whereas in SS there's at least an ongoing sense of progression. It also doesn't help that the SS characters are more interesting than the Ordon kids IMO.
At least the dungeon is interesting when you finally get to it 😅 (but Skyview prob wins over TP's Forest Temple too).
To me it sounds like a perversion of the great bay theme
Before my brother stole all of my games I used to play this yearly, always forgot how much was in the game
Your brother STOLE all your games?! 😟😮
@@CaptBurgerson yes right before he moved and never spoke to me again 😃 he took my original copies of smg 1 and twilight princess which were the first games I ever bought
This hurts my gamer heart. I’m sorry to hear dude.
@@CaptBurgerson haha yea at least I have a job and college so I wouldn’t have any time to play anyways
@@jacobsmith5928 😭😭
Dunno why, but im getting that feeling you don't like spiders ☝🏻
What’s the music in the intro?
Hi! I write my own music for these videos, so this is an original piece! Here is a link to the full song:
ua-cam.com/video/Bvm5CYmefNM/v-deo.html
@@CaptBurgerson Thanks!
I was wondering why there wasn’t any attribution for the intro music, but I suppose you don’t have to attribute your own work.
27:01
Okay can’t help myself, what do all these time stamps you’re throwing in the comments mean? Places you’ve paused or something else of note? Just curious
18:48 Pikmin maybe?
I can’t think of a specific song in the Pikmin series that fits that tune. Was there one you had in mind?
Monkey swing!!!
Monkey swing, monkey do?
@@CaptBurgerson
OMG, I hope to see Monkeys in BOTW 2!!!
Imagine them forming swing-lines across chasms with the Monkey on the bottom tossing lanterns and other projectiles to and fro!
Forest Temple is probably my least favourite first dungeon in a Zelda game, but I do really love the atmosphere of it
TP is really just an upgrade from oot in many ways. There are some people that do prefer oot to TP, but its probably nostalgia glasses.
I disagree. OOT's Hyrule Field was revolutionary for its time. This game's Hyrule Field is less interesting than Majora Mask's Termina Field, and that was put together in way more of a hurry/was way more utilitarian. The linear nature of the progression in TP can get confining if you're the kind of Zelda player who wants to do some freewheeling exploration at least part of the time. BOTW inverted and collapsed this dynamic of course; I played that and craved true dungeons. So call me a Zelda centrist heh
@@professoreff3483 OOT had also a linear progression thought, more so as adult link than child link because you were even more streamlined through each dungeon barring the exception of spirit temple and shadow temple.
Are you doing the 2d Zelda's when your done with the 3d Zelda's, please say yes?!?
The answer is yes!
@@CaptBurgerson yay! Thank you so much I'm loving your videos, Zelda is my favorite franchise saga so I subscribed to you. by the way, where you on the game over jassie podcast? because you sound like one of the guys from there
Sorry for the late reply, but yes that's me Jesse's channel!
@@CaptBurgerson cool, I thought so
I have always hated how long that intro to the game was…….boring village side quests blah. Herding unihorn goats did not make it any better either
I couldn’t even get my cousin into it because of it! And he’s the one that introduced me to the series haha.
I hate the kids too but Collin’s a good kid
4:59 whaaaat no way I see the difference now….this is some mind trick BS I honestly don’t remember it looking that bad! Too bad I never got to play TPHD but I really really do hope they’ll consider reissuing it on switch. Plus a 60 fps output hehehe
11:29 the crotch? LOL Link sure is a character one way or another in each game.
21:45 Oocoo’s…oh lord
I always thought those things at the front were bird boobies 😅
Deku Lykes? Sounds like an interesting result of monster breeding. Also idk if anyone noticed but that sword looks a lot like the Knights Sword from BOTW!
I just wish the animation for the boss would be spanking the baboon’s butt instead of slicing it lol would be funny. Not my favorite dungeon but it is fun honestly
7:33 "goat herding". I call this "sideplay." any time you want to test if something is sideplay, just formulate this sentence "ah yes, the Zelda franchise. famous for its.... goat herding." replace the franchise and activity as needed, and if you realize you sound stupid, it means this activity is "sideplay." I'm all for adding sideplay (like fishing) to franchises. but imo sideplay should never be MANDATORY. i call that a gamedev sin.
skulltulas are cute not scary