I think the concept is wrong for most people to get low. It's cool and all we get it. But the more I ride the more I understand that your goal should be get around the corner as fast as possible not as far lean as possible. The more lean u have on the bike the more time it takes for you to get back up to pull full power down. The goal should be opposite. How to get around the corners with the least amout of lean. As speed comes you would naturally have to go lower. But Not to set your goal to be dragging elbow from the start.
@@djfung Basically, the higher the overturning moment exerted on the bike, the higher the speed it needs to still be kept on the wheels, ergo the higher the cornering velocity is. So, while you are partially correct, your idealized target should be to go full lean (up to helmet dragging) in the least amount of time possible whenever you start negotiating a corner.
@@getsideways7257 I was just watching “ice speedway racing” and they lean so far it’s comical. It’s incredible and perhaps to your point, as well. It appears they have so much grip that the answer is to keep leaning to go faster. Helmet-dragging is definitely an option for these guys. I wonder how a bike on the same track would do with the rider leaning his entire body off to near horizontal while leaving the bike upright. Who could go faster?
@@cincinnatislider With the studs almost bigger than the width of the tire that's no surprise. The downside to leaning over the bike is that the contact patches are not as optimal as with the bike staying upright (and of course the suspension can't do its job as effectively), but over than that, the more bike leaning torque is created, the faster the bike needs to go to not topple. We also need to take the centripetal force into account as well, since what works to drop the bike in static might actually create a straightening moment while going in a circle. That said, the more body weight is shifted towards the center of the arc, the less it gets affected by the circular motion, not to mention creating a greater overturning moment.
A mistake that I happen to do more often than so is, while being comfortable with the most lean angle available, I find it difficult to connect the proper speed and radius with the matching lean. I have crashed focusing on lean and ignoring that my pace had dropped due to fatigue. I mean I can lean the bike, but sometimes with less speed than what is required for the bike not to drop. How can I fix this? My perception of speed drops through my confidence drop due physical fatigue. I would be most grateful for your advice which, along with all your videos, are pure gold!
Another good intro to one riding skill. Off-camber and/or wet corners are most risky when fast cornering on track in my opinion, and are the only ones where my bike’s TC has flickered on and off there so far. Gravity and the friction co-efficient can’t be ignored.
Having done lots of miniGP racing and practice, I've leaned a crf150f on slicks till I hit my toes, then the peg, then the peg mount and started sliding because I unweighted the tires. Managed to save it each time though. On my current custom miniGP superbike build, I have the clearance with the foot pegs. It's a weird mix of getting my knee down, continuing to lean further, and further, and further. At one point I had the front tire start pushing, but that was because I was trying to counter steer to lean even more, while also getting on the throttle. I was impatient wanting to pass someone, and to see how low it would go. Saved that one also.
this topic is defiantly directed to the track. First I focused on getting off the bike . At moderate corner speed getting off the bike , will get you around. Seat time and focusing on these points ,body position, breaking, turn in markers acceleration and the track conditions gets you confident and accurate. I dont stop the focus ever but by pushing at the point when my mind slows down i get faster and slowly need to lean the bike more. I ride a light weight and keeping speed is more the goal.
Too much lean angle and not enough body hang, coupled with a peg that had lost it´s metal advisor(however that thing is called) meant me going in too deep on a cambered corner and sliding straight into the gravel.
i try to use as less lean as possible by moving the center gravity. On Zandvoort track I did scrape my left peg and on the right i scraped the exaust. Thay was my key to work on a better bodyposition to decrease the lean angle a bit.
Dear Producer of this video. I‘ve just recently discovered Your channel. Now I‘m watching as much as possible of Your videos. Thanks a bunch for this video. Now, I‘m riding since 1984 with different bikes. Currently I‘m riding a Yamaha MT (or FZ 09 like the AMERICANS dub this bike) and have a lot of fun. But what’s really very sad, that I‘ve JUST STARTED TO RIDE THE CORRECT WAY. Meaning: Look far ahead and not just in front of the front wheel and turn Your head to overlook the corner in front of You. And at the beginning of July, I‘ll attend my first "Corner-Course" with a driving instructor. Now my question: In this video, You‘ve said that the "Lean Angle" is different from bike to bike, and setup to setup. Theoretically speaking: What do You think regarding the lean angle, is possible for an experienced rider on a bike like mine (FZ 09) with moderate tires? 45% or 50% or even more?
Scraped my right peg with the feeler already taken off...even though my stock pegs fold up, it still scared the heck out of me! I've seen so many people go down from dragging a peg so as soon as it happened I reacted to get the bike up from that angle immediately. I like dragging knees but not pegs!
It's not mentioned enough, but try handing off the bike more to prevent the bike from reaching its max angle. The less the bike leans, the more contact patch you have. It's a dance between leaning your body instead of the bike and vice versa to 'go fast'.
@@TWIRKNOLOVE Well, that's actually the number one reason to hang off at all, so you can get more lean angle out of your bike even though the bike is already at max lean because physical limitations. Also scraping folding footpegs is not bad, I do it all the time, just be sure to have no weight on it through your foot. But it's just like sliding you knee, it gives you a very good indication of how far you are leaning.
You will get use to it after you experince it a few times, first time is all ways a shock. Keep you weight on the out side foot and you will pop up fast after end of the turn be carfull not to carry into the oncomming lain.
you tall mafk i actually got used to scraping the pegs on the duke before rearsets. but they folded and with smooth throttle it really wasnt that bad...actually got fun. definitly cant scrape non folding rearsets
You need speed to get lean angle, simple as that. Basically lean is a consequence of you going through a certain corner, with a certain line, at a certain speed. It is a consequence, not a cause.
@@giodc8599 The guy has a problem in MENTAL barriers, not technical. To avoid mental barriers You have to have more practice and some push from yourself.
I had that earlier this year, I picked a corner I could go back and fourth on at about 55 km/h and kept pushing the lean angle slightly at a time. When I was about to give up at the 15th try, sweaty as hell, I felt the knee pad scraping the ground briefly. So just keep practicing and push it bit by bit, although your mind says no. Just make sure to abandon attempts where it does not feel good when you start pushing the limit. That's where it helps practicing in the same corner. For reference, been riding for 3 years now on public road with an R6 most recent year. Now I'm able to knee drag most corners I thought were possible, but couldn't because of the mental barrier. Remember to have sufficiently warm tires for grip beforehand though!
See now I'm a bit confused. I thought the point was to hang as far off the inside as possible now to minimize lean angle, with more tire available translating into more speed?
Scared myself when learning to lean with a BMW R1150R, it has the oilhead protective tube cage around. Got both sides ground, at one point I was like on a 3 wheel bike, that was scary - got the bike up and straight, finished the corner, just some deep scratches and high addrenaline. I understand I just have to keep practicing to get good memory of the angle...
The focus on leaning is misplaced. Slowly increase your speeds through the same corner putting emphasis on body position to lessen lean angle is the trick. Eventually you cant transfer anymore weight inside and that's when the lean angle must increase if you want to go faster through the same turn. You may find you are already going faster than everybody else before more lean due to good body position unless your riding with those folks leaning at 60+ degree's and eyewatering speeds and most of us are not. I go faster than most and don't even use the whole tire and they are not chicken strips they are good body position and line strips. A mass in motion remains in motion unless acted upon by an external force so make everything as smooth as possible and all will go well.
On a trackday in a left turn that goes from off-camber to on-camber, i felt/heard my foot peg touch, since i was being mostly consistent and gradually increasing my speed it didn't feel like it was a dangerous situation despite non-folding pegs, but i know now after reading up that it is a combination of geometry on my R1 (-12), spring, and settings in the rear :)
I’ve got a 2017 Fireblade started scratching the hero bobs at the bottom of the pegs so took them off, no problems now except on long corners I keep thinking there’s more room but the angle seems crazy enough so not willing to push it. The lap timer says 55 degrees on M7RR tyres.
I’m scared to use more lean angle as I’ve crashed at the lean angle I’m already at. But I know the faster guys are using more. I think when your off the throttle just coasting, you can use loads more lean angle than you think but as soon as you start to crack the throttle open it needs to be upright again, or at least a lot less than maximum lean angle. As I found out at clearways
yep, this is the golden rule...after the apex, start trading lean points for throttle points. you only have 100 points of grip to use - check out YCRS videos and or the class
Hello , Really enjoying your videos , I have just recently bought a Ohvale mini bike, I live in Spain and in the county that I live in (Alicante) there are loads of excellent go kart tracks to go to , it would be awesome to hear your point of view on this method of training.
This is probably a dumb question (my 2nd year of riding on my 2nd motorcycle) I’m on a race focused bike Suzuki gsxr750 With a race focused tire (Dunlop q3 sportmax) I only ride mountainous roads never on a track….I’ve had multiple experiences with my foot scraping the ground through corners when I use aggressive lean angles… my question is it safe to ride like this on a public road compared to a track? I’ve heard the tarmac is much different on a track but how different could it be? It’s just pavement
i just love to lean!Not for track use to fight with the time,but for backroads,canyons etc,i just love to lean and see the corners like my head is parallel to the ground!Not at hight speeds,a lot of times could enter and exit faster,but i just love the feeling of lean.Pirellis corsa 2 saved me,its a dream
Nice video, thank your very much! And you maybe could have mentioned that the words 'race track' and'race driving' do have certain meanings - it's not about lean angle, horse power, max acceleration, best brakes, shiny leathers, sponsor money, max attention or risc taking, or who is the best driver. It's about winning - the one who crosses the finish line first. He will be declared winner - if it's a sport and we are amongst gentlemen(1), because all others come second or later. A race track is made for races, winners cross the line first. (And get the best and brightest Ladies later on - for life.) (Cause that's what the Ladies are after - even if they in public most of the time say, they would not. 🤗) 1 - There have been good and widely accepted reasons for London, England, and Berny Ecclestone to spread F1 not only all over the world, but for the middle east as well. In core they were more gready for spreading civilization than for money - thank you for your service so far.
Did we state clear enough - they are after two things - winners, for live (!). The two go together, adamont. It's not about one or the other, or consecutive. No, both, now, in eternal presence. My man is here. (Most of the time, sometimes he is in a competition 😉)
Hi Dan, does the rule 'foot and peg close to the floor' also apply for small motorbikes like the cbr 125 second generation with very narrow tyres? Thanks in advance and good job!
I'm guessing scrapping the fallprotection on my cbr 600 rr is to much bike lean :s . My upper body wasn't low enough in said corner so that also caused me to lean the bike further in the corner. Gotta work some more on my hairpin corners, low speed upper body position.
If you’re talking racing, you lean as far as you can... hence frequent crashes. If you’re on the road you should ideally have a healthy margin of error. Simple.
When coming out of a apex at high or maximum lean when is it safer to turn on the throttle, I usually wait till 3/4 through the corner or 1/4 past the apex which feels like a very safe zone to add throttle gradually then full throttle once I’m almost upright, but seem to be losing time and distance from other riders who power on earlier and harder. The very edges of my tire are being used but show smooth wear as opposed to the rest that shows the ripples or tire bugga’s if that’s what it’s called of hard acceleration or hard cornering.
Keep going to track days, its time on a bike that will make you faster, but you will never beet some kid whos been riding for years on a track, that just the way it is, you will learn to go deeper into the turn under breaking letting breaking pressure off has you drop into the turn and shifting weight onto the back tier under exhilaration ganing experience doing this with take a few years.
Lean angle is a function of line and speed. You must lean the bike as much as is necessary given the line you've selected and the speed you've chosen. That doesn't change with bike size. What does "weight" have to do with it?
@@BTrain-is8ch bikes with less power take different lines to maximize corner speed, and so spend more time at max lean. at least, i think thats what he's saying
A question that always come to my mind, touching your knee down can prevent to have a lowside for adding too much lean angle? (Apart from Body position and throttle control)
I have been wanting to reach the maximum lean angle with my bike (21 ninja 1000sx) i was practicing on some clover leafs in my town and finally got down to scrape my pegs at a mere 50° i realize my bike is a sports tourer and therefore perhaps not designed for such low angles... however it is fitted stock with s22s which tells me it has the potential. I scraped my footpegs but still did not drag knee... any advice?
Pro rider tips from Josh Herrin on foot position helped me. I used to drag my toes quite a bit but almost never do now. ua-cam.com/video/b77E4Bl2hD4/v-deo.html
I always scrape my toe sliders on both boots; without getting my knees down (apprehensive to scrape the knees). I do get the knees down on certain corners at different tracks; but still struggle with this. My most recent observation was that I had scraped the belly pan on both sides after a track day without any knee down action (stock Tuono V4 1100 RR with RSV4 belly pan fitted). I suspect the stock suspension settings are too soft; and therefore scraping belly pan? I also believe that I'm not getting off the seat enough; therefore not much knee scraping; a lot of toe scraping, and too much lean angle?
Well, the good news is that you're clearly not afraid to lean the bike; in my humble opinion, the problem is your body positioning. Your knee is there to tell you how far you're leaning, like a warning if you will. Also, your upper body, head and shoulders should be dipping inside the corner. This will allow you to "push" the bike up a notch and not scrape any part of your bike, yet still, go as fast.
@@JeremyUSA Thanks for the insight (being able to adjust traction control on the fly has helped me a lot with the lean angle "barrier"). The head and shoulders dipping inside also confirms I'm not getting off the seat enough. I've got to work on that specific point then; which will enable me to "push" the bike up as you say. This will also then help me accelerate sooner on corner exit I would imagine. Getting the knee down to judge my lean angle would take me a lot of practice; but I guess would also become easier if my upper body position was correct? I still have the stock rear sets though; which I suspect may also be a bit too low, as I just can't seem to get my boots out the way?
My problem on track is im scared to crash, but I've never crashed before so I have no muscle memory when things will go bad or where my limit is. It annoys me a lot
Try to fall sometime . I know it sounds stupid but once you do you will see how it is to fall . You will realise the bike's limits and you will have a good taste how is it to fall . Then you will also realise that falling isn't that bad , unless you go with 200km/h and go straight into a wall . Otherwise you will see that is not that big deal
do you have to add more throttle as you go lower? or do you stay put? I always fear that adding throttle will cause it to slide out and then you're a pancake. but I also think that coasting through at such a lean will cause the bike to tip over since the rear isn't being shoved into the floor like glue anymore. Can you hit the brakes? or does that cause the bike to slide or tip over from weight shifting off the rear tire causing what happens in example 1 or 2?
I'd advise getting specific instruction on this at a school or track day if you're serious, but in short, it's complicated. As a general rule, do not add throttle and more lean at the same time. If you are approaching max lean, you have a very finite amount of traction, most of which is used up by the turning force on the tires. If you add throttle you will lose the rear. If you add brakes, you will lose the front. If you watch MotoGP guys, for the split second they are at max lean, there is very little force on the bike.
@@ghosk unfortunately there is no track here nor "track day". living on an island with plenty of fast bikes and lots of road but no government support for sanctioned motorsports/schooling. (actually a government that is strongly anti-motorsport) That is why I have to remain glued to youtube :/
I tried adding subtitles but the channel has disabled contribution....... the auto generated subtitles are 90% correct.....press "c" button on your keyboard when video is full screen to enable subtitles.....if you still have doubt..leave comment someone will reply
I would like to congratulate you on your channel I have had fun thank you so much I wanted to tell you that in June of the next year I am going to make a trip of resistance between lisbon and assen by motorcycle kawasaki zx10r 2009 and I am going to make the trip without stopping just to fill up I wanted to ask for help on how to ask for sponsorships for my trip or something thanks keep posting your videos thanks a lot Marco
Hey man I whatched a video and I got really confused... Can you explain me this 1 thing: In that video it said that after I pushed the bar the way I want to go I have to center the bar or the bike would fall. In a courner, after countersteering and the bike leaning do I keep on countersteering the way I want to go or do center the bar or do I steer? I don't have a bike to try this myself.
Too much emphasis is on counter-steering. Noone can steer a bike without it. You counter steer automatically. How much and how long has to do with the turn and speed. Not much different than a car. When you steer a car in a curve, when do you straighten the car? The same with a bike. You adjust your steering as needed during the ride. Bottom line is that counter-steering is one thing that you don't need to focus on, since it happens automatically. A 4 year old does it automatically on a bicycle. Good luck.
This video just came out of blue,, thanks for you .. just came back from an open track day .. I am using S1000R I was leaning till the pegs touching the ground but not my knee ... so I was going like hmmm I am doing something wrong here ... so I changed my foot position a Lil bit then my knees touching before the pegs ... yet I believe I need a rear set. any advice ??
@@apollomorris9920 I beleive every thing explained well on what was going on track .. All I need is an advice if leaning to the maximum point needed a rear set for the BMW S1000R .. any way .. thanks Man.
hamad1979 i had a BMW S 1000 RR 2016 with the BMW rear sets it has a gage that shows your lean angel 58 degrees no scraping for me. I had an Aprilla RSV4 RF all done putting over 200hp to the rear tier. I have a love for that bike like no other. 4 Hondas one Yamaha 2 dirt bikes Kart racing car racing ski racing windsurfing , That Aprilla was the love of my life, when i come back to the states im getting another 2016 Aprilla RF.
Good material, but can’t agree with all the statements here ... lean angle of the motorbike is limited by the hardware (true, = pegs, exhaust etc.) - but the lean angle for the rider is the one he’s capable to control... pushing further will just create dangerous situation... I can see people trying to force the knee on the ground and other stuff on the track ... all of that will come with speed and experience ...
My Tracer 900 has hero blobs on quite long sticks, 5cm or so. I find it quite disconcerting when they touch down. Any thoughts on removing or shortening them?
The 'hero knobs' or kerb feelers are very easy to remove and will cause no issues at all by removing them. They really only get in the way. I've removed them on every bike I own from my 2008 Fireblade down to my 1990 CBR250RR MC22.
@@stephenjando4285 interesting. It had crossed my mind that they might represent the design limit of lean for the bike, and that by removing them I might allow too much lean... but I'm guessing this is really limited by the tyres and available grip
@@robocombo as wascallyrabbit mentioned, they were originally designed to be the first point to contact the ground before any other body parts or hardware on the bike and have nothing to do with the maximum lean angle at all. The max lean angle depends on many other factors (such as suspension set up, rider weight, tyres, ergonomics, rearsets, and many more) and varies from bike to bike and rider to rider. I would certainly check to make sure that there is nothing like an exhaust, centre stand, etc. will not touch the ground but most newer bikes won't be close from what I've seen. You could even use a piece of string and just tape it under the centre of your bike and run it up each side to see if anything would touch if you find that easier than a large ruler.
Peg feelers are there to prevent you from going down more than you should. The tracer isn't meant for that, and its mainstand would have been dragged first before the feelers are.
"how much lean should we use?"
-Yes
I think the concept is wrong for most people to get low. It's cool and all we get it. But the more I ride the more I understand that your goal should be get around the corner as fast as possible not as far lean as possible. The more lean u have on the bike the more time it takes for you to get back up to pull full power down. The goal should be opposite. How to get around the corners with the least amout of lean. As speed comes you would naturally have to go lower. But Not to set your goal to be dragging elbow from the start.
As he carefully said in the video: "more lean angle means more speed POTENTIAL".
@Sunyata didn't mean to say anything bad about the video. I'm just adding to how I think
@@djfung Basically, the higher the overturning moment exerted on the bike, the higher the speed it needs to still be kept on the wheels, ergo the higher the cornering velocity is. So, while you are partially correct, your idealized target should be to go full lean (up to helmet dragging) in the least amount of time possible whenever you start negotiating a corner.
@@getsideways7257 I was just watching “ice speedway racing” and they lean so far it’s comical. It’s incredible and perhaps to your point, as well. It appears they have so much grip that the answer is to keep leaning to go faster. Helmet-dragging is definitely an option for these guys.
I wonder how a bike on the same track would do with the rider leaning his entire body off to near horizontal while leaving the bike upright. Who could go faster?
@@cincinnatislider With the studs almost bigger than the width of the tire that's no surprise.
The downside to leaning over the bike is that the contact patches are not as optimal as with the bike staying upright (and of course the suspension can't do its job as effectively), but over than that, the more bike leaning torque is created, the faster the bike needs to go to not topple. We also need to take the centripetal force into account as well, since what works to drop the bike in static might actually create a straightening moment while going in a circle. That said, the more body weight is shifted towards the center of the arc, the less it gets affected by the circular motion, not to mention creating a greater overturning moment.
A mistake that I happen to do more often than so is, while being comfortable with the most lean angle available, I find it difficult to connect the proper speed and radius with the matching lean. I have crashed focusing on lean and ignoring that my pace had dropped due to fatigue. I mean I can lean the bike, but sometimes with less speed than what is required for the bike not to drop. How can I fix this? My perception of speed drops through my confidence drop due physical fatigue. I would be most grateful for your advice which, along with all your videos, are pure gold!
Dan, because of the lessons and thinking about riding you provide... and practice practice practice:
I am rocking 5 tracks!
You would be proud of me.😇
Another good intro to one riding skill. Off-camber and/or wet corners are most risky when fast cornering on track in my opinion, and are the only ones where my bike’s TC has flickered on and off there so far. Gravity and the friction co-efficient can’t be ignored.
Having done lots of miniGP racing and practice, I've leaned a crf150f on slicks till I hit my toes, then the peg, then the peg mount and started sliding because I unweighted the tires. Managed to save it each time though. On my current custom miniGP superbike build, I have the clearance with the foot pegs. It's a weird mix of getting my knee down, continuing to lean further, and further, and further. At one point I had the front tire start pushing, but that was because I was trying to counter steer to lean even more, while also getting on the throttle. I was impatient wanting to pass someone, and to see how low it would go. Saved that one also.
Scarped left side of fairing on a 1989 GSX-R750 on corner 2 @ Eastern Creek raceway wow who!
this topic is defiantly directed to the track. First I focused on getting off the bike . At moderate corner speed getting off the bike , will get you around. Seat time and focusing on these points ,body position, breaking, turn in markers acceleration and the track conditions gets you confident and accurate. I dont stop the focus ever but by pushing at the point when my mind slows down i get faster and slowly need to lean the bike more. I ride a light weight and keeping speed is more the goal.
Good video, yeah when your carring enough speed into a corner the tires actually start to slow you down and these lean angles really come into play.
Too much lean angle and not enough body hang, coupled with a peg that had lost it´s metal advisor(however that thing is called) meant me going in too deep on a cambered corner and sliding straight into the gravel.
Off camber corners are the worst. I'm still not 100% in them
i try to use as less lean as possible by moving the center gravity. On Zandvoort track I did scrape my left peg and on the right i scraped the exaust. Thay was my key to work on a better bodyposition to decrease the lean angle a bit.
Had a lowside just due to too much lean
probably cold tires
Rosso Corsa 2s supposedly max out at 52 degrees or so. I wouldn't try to go full MM93 on them
Dear Producer of this video.
I‘ve just recently discovered Your channel.
Now I‘m watching as much as possible of Your videos.
Thanks a bunch for this video.
Now, I‘m riding since 1984 with different bikes.
Currently I‘m riding a Yamaha MT (or FZ 09 like the AMERICANS dub this bike) and have a lot of fun.
But what’s really very sad, that I‘ve JUST STARTED TO RIDE THE CORRECT WAY.
Meaning: Look far ahead and not just in front of the front wheel and turn Your head to overlook the corner in front of You.
And at the beginning of July, I‘ll attend my first "Corner-Course" with a driving instructor.
Now my question: In this video, You‘ve said that the "Lean Angle" is different from bike to bike, and setup to setup.
Theoretically speaking: What do You think regarding the lean angle, is possible for an experienced rider on a bike like mine (FZ 09) with moderate tires?
45% or 50% or even more?
Scraped my right peg with the feeler already taken off...even though my stock pegs fold up, it still scared the heck out of me! I've seen so many people go down from dragging a peg so as soon as it happened I reacted to get the bike up from that angle immediately. I like dragging knees but not pegs!
It's not mentioned enough, but try handing off the bike more to prevent the bike from reaching its max angle. The less the bike leans, the more contact patch you have. It's a dance between leaning your body instead of the bike and vice versa to 'go fast'.
@@TWIRKNOLOVE Well, that's actually the number one reason to hang off at all, so you can get more lean angle out of your bike even though the bike is already at max lean because physical limitations. Also scraping folding footpegs is not bad, I do it all the time, just be sure to have no weight on it through your foot. But it's just like sliding you knee, it gives you a very good indication of how far you are leaning.
You will get use to it after you experince it a few times, first time is all ways a shock. Keep you weight on the out side foot and you will pop up fast after end of the turn be carfull not to carry into the oncomming lain.
you tall mafk i actually got used to scraping the pegs on the duke before rearsets. but they folded and with smooth throttle it really wasnt that bad...actually got fun. definitly cant scrape non folding rearsets
@@Blockbuster2033 incorrect. Hanging off the side helps to get a sharper turn without having to lean the bike as far.
I still hit mental barriers way before I get anywhere near maximum lean angle. I just can't get passed it and I'm not sure why.
ua-cam.com/video/2R00jOsC9GI/v-deo.html
Just need much more practice and it wil come itself one day..
You need speed to get lean angle, simple as that. Basically lean is a consequence of you going through a certain corner, with a certain line, at a certain speed. It is a consequence, not a cause.
@@giodc8599 The guy has a problem in MENTAL barriers, not technical. To avoid mental barriers You have to have more practice and some push from yourself.
I had that earlier this year, I picked a corner I could go back and fourth on at about 55 km/h and kept pushing the lean angle slightly at a time. When I was about to give up at the 15th try, sweaty as hell, I felt the knee pad scraping the ground briefly. So just keep practicing and push it bit by bit, although your mind says no. Just make sure to abandon attempts where it does not feel good when you start pushing the limit. That's where it helps practicing in the same corner.
For reference, been riding for 3 years now on public road with an R6 most recent year. Now I'm able to knee drag most corners I thought were possible, but couldn't because of the mental barrier.
Remember to have sufficiently warm tires for grip beforehand though!
See now I'm a bit confused. I thought the point was to hang as far off the inside as possible now to minimize lean angle, with more tire available translating into more speed?
Scared myself when learning to lean with a BMW R1150R, it has the oilhead protective tube cage around. Got both sides ground, at one point I was like on a 3 wheel bike, that was scary - got the bike up and straight, finished the corner, just some deep scratches and high addrenaline. I understand I just have to keep practicing to get good memory of the angle...
Any chance you can boost the overall volume level in your videos?
The focus on leaning is misplaced. Slowly increase your speeds through the same corner putting emphasis on body position to lessen lean angle is the trick. Eventually you cant transfer anymore weight inside and that's when the lean angle must increase if you want to go faster through the same turn. You may find you are already going faster than everybody else before more lean due to good body position unless your riding with those folks leaning at 60+ degree's and eyewatering speeds and most of us are not. I go faster than most and don't even use the whole tire and they are not chicken strips they are good body position and line strips. A mass in motion remains in motion unless acted upon by an external force so make everything as smooth as possible and all will go well.
when the stator case is scraping your on the limit👍
On a trackday in a left turn that goes from off-camber to on-camber, i felt/heard my foot peg touch, since i was being mostly consistent and gradually increasing my speed it didn't feel like it was a dangerous situation despite non-folding pegs, but i know now after reading up that it is a combination of geometry on my R1 (-12), spring, and settings in the rear :)
Once again AWSOME!!
This should had been a 4 second video. The answer? Full lean all of the time. Done! 😂🤣 #fullsendforthegram
Sound like Scotty Redding 😆
@@LifeatLean 🤣😂😂
I’ve got a 2017 Fireblade started scratching the hero bobs at the bottom of the pegs so took them off, no problems now except on long corners I keep thinking there’s more room but the angle seems crazy enough so not willing to push it. The lap timer says 55 degrees on M7RR tyres.
I’m scared to use more lean angle as I’ve crashed at the lean angle I’m already at. But I know the faster guys are using more. I think when your off the throttle just coasting, you can use loads more lean angle than you think but as soon as you start to crack the throttle open it needs to be upright again, or at least a lot less than maximum lean angle. As I found out at clearways
yep, this is the golden rule...after the apex, start trading lean points for throttle points. you only have 100 points of grip to use - check out YCRS videos and or the class
Enter a corner on a wet road, midway thru the corner while leaning hit a bump bike starts weaving. Scary shit.
Hello ,
Really enjoying your videos , I have just recently bought a Ohvale mini bike, I live in Spain and in the county that I live in (Alicante) there are loads of excellent go kart tracks to go to , it would be awesome to hear your point of view on this method of training.
This is probably a dumb question (my 2nd year of riding on my 2nd motorcycle) I’m on a race focused bike Suzuki gsxr750 With a race focused tire (Dunlop q3 sportmax) I only ride mountainous roads never on a track….I’ve had multiple experiences with my foot scraping the ground through corners when I use aggressive lean angles… my question is it safe to ride like this on a public road compared to a track? I’ve heard the tarmac is much different on a track but how different could it be? It’s just pavement
i just love to lean!Not for track use to fight with the time,but for backroads,canyons etc,i just love to lean and see the corners like my head is parallel to the ground!Not at hight speeds,a lot of times could enter and exit faster,but i just love the feeling of lean.Pirellis corsa 2 saved me,its a dream
Nice video, thank your very much! And you maybe could have mentioned that the words 'race track' and'race driving' do have certain meanings - it's not about lean angle, horse power, max acceleration, best brakes, shiny leathers, sponsor money, max attention or risc taking, or who is the best driver.
It's about winning - the one who crosses the finish line first. He will be declared winner - if it's a sport and we are amongst gentlemen(1), because all others come second or later. A race track is made for races, winners cross the line first. (And get the best and brightest Ladies later on - for life.) (Cause that's what the Ladies are after - even if they in public most of the time say, they would not. 🤗)
1 - There have been good and widely accepted reasons for London, England, and Berny Ecclestone to spread F1 not only all over the world, but for the middle east as well. In core they were more gready for spreading civilization than for money - thank you for your service so far.
Did we state clear enough - they are after two things - winners, for live (!). The two go together, adamont. It's not about one or the other, or consecutive. No, both, now, in eternal presence. My man is here. (Most of the time, sometimes he is in a competition 😉)
Hi Dan, does the rule 'foot and peg close to the floor' also apply for small motorbikes like the cbr 125 second generation with very narrow tyres? Thanks in advance and good job!
If the peg touch the floor, would it make the bike unstable and cause crash??
I'm guessing scrapping the fallprotection on my cbr 600 rr is to much bike lean :s . My upper body wasn't low enough in said corner so that also caused me to lean the bike further in the corner. Gotta work some more on my hairpin corners, low speed upper body position.
WHAT!?
That is insane!
If you’re talking racing, you lean as far as you can... hence frequent crashes.
If you’re on the road you should ideally have a healthy margin of error.
Simple.
Thanks!
You are most welcome!
When coming out of a apex at high or maximum lean when is it safer to turn on the throttle, I usually wait till 3/4 through the corner or 1/4 past the apex which feels like a very safe zone to add throttle gradually then full throttle once I’m almost upright, but seem to be losing time and distance from other riders who power on earlier and harder. The very edges of my tire are being used but show smooth wear as opposed to the rest that shows the ripples or tire bugga’s if that’s what it’s called of hard acceleration or hard cornering.
Once you finish your steering input, you can roll on the throttle
Keep going to track days, its time on a bike that will make you faster, but you will never beet some kid whos been riding for years on a track, that just the way it is, you will learn to go deeper into the turn under breaking letting breaking pressure off has you drop into the turn and shifting weight onto the back tier under exhilaration ganing experience doing this with take a few years.
Can't stress enough how much does the "weight" of the bike/bike type, liter to 125cc etc has to do with this subject! in addition.
Lean angle is a function of line and speed. You must lean the bike as much as is necessary given the line you've selected and the speed you've chosen. That doesn't change with bike size. What does "weight" have to do with it?
@@BTrain-is8ch bikes with less power take different lines to maximize corner speed, and so spend more time at max lean. at least, i think thats what he's saying
A question that always come to my mind, touching your knee down can prevent to have a lowside for adding too much lean angle? (Apart from Body position and throttle control)
@@alotl1kevegas860 Pushing off your knee can absolutely save you from a low side.
yep, it is a crazy feeling when you do it
@@Sergeant898 huh... never knew that. Time to dust off the thigh master!
I have been wanting to reach the maximum lean angle with my bike (21 ninja 1000sx) i was practicing on some clover leafs in my town and finally got down to scrape my pegs at a mere 50° i realize my bike is a sports tourer and therefore perhaps not designed for such low angles... however it is fitted stock with s22s which tells me it has the potential. I scraped my footpegs but still did not drag knee... any advice?
Touching toe slider down on my street triple, is this max lean?
No it doesn't, it means get your toes out of the way!
Btw, I ride a 2014 street triple r on track many times per year.
Pro rider tips from Josh Herrin on foot position helped me. I used to drag my toes quite a bit but almost never do now. ua-cam.com/video/b77E4Bl2hD4/v-deo.html
I always scrape my toe sliders on both boots; without getting my knees down (apprehensive to scrape the knees). I do get the knees down on certain corners at different tracks; but still struggle with this. My most recent observation was that I had scraped the belly pan on both sides after a track day without any knee down action (stock Tuono V4 1100 RR with RSV4 belly pan fitted). I suspect the stock suspension settings are too soft; and therefore scraping belly pan? I also believe that I'm not getting off the seat enough; therefore not much knee scraping; a lot of toe scraping, and too much lean angle?
Well, the good news is that you're clearly not afraid to lean the bike; in my humble opinion, the problem is your body positioning. Your knee is there to tell you how far you're leaning, like a warning if you will. Also, your upper body, head and shoulders should be dipping inside the corner. This will allow you to "push" the bike up a notch and not scrape any part of your bike, yet still, go as fast.
@@JeremyUSA Thanks for the insight (being able to adjust traction control on the fly has helped me a lot with the lean angle "barrier"). The head and shoulders dipping inside also confirms I'm not getting off the seat enough. I've got to work on that specific point then; which will enable me to "push" the bike up as you say. This will also then help me accelerate sooner on corner exit I would imagine. Getting the knee down to judge my lean angle would take me a lot of practice; but I guess would also become easier if my upper body position was correct?
I still have the stock rear sets though; which I suspect may also be a bit too low, as I just can't seem to get my boots out the way?
My problem on track is im scared to crash, but I've never crashed before so I have no muscle memory when things will go bad or where my limit is. It annoys me a lot
Try to fall sometime . I know it sounds stupid but once you do you will see how it is to fall . You will realise the bike's limits and you will have a good taste how is it to fall . Then you will also realise that falling isn't that bad , unless you go with 200km/h and go straight into a wall . Otherwise you will see that is not that big deal
@@user-um9be3qc7u i kissed the tarmac once now😂 it was a lowsider...
Around 70 degrees.
thankes
i eat this videos up like crack lmao
do you have to add more throttle as you go lower? or do you stay put? I always fear that adding throttle will cause it to slide out and then you're a pancake. but I also think that coasting through at such a lean will cause the bike to tip over since the rear isn't being shoved into the floor like glue anymore. Can you hit the brakes? or does that cause the bike to slide or tip over from weight shifting off the rear tire causing what happens in example 1 or 2?
I'd advise getting specific instruction on this at a school or track day if you're serious, but in short, it's complicated. As a general rule, do not add throttle and more lean at the same time. If you are approaching max lean, you have a very finite amount of traction, most of which is used up by the turning force on the tires. If you add throttle you will lose the rear. If you add brakes, you will lose the front. If you watch MotoGP guys, for the split second they are at max lean, there is very little force on the bike.
@@ghosk unfortunately there is no track here nor "track day". living on an island with plenty of fast bikes and lots of road but no government support for sanctioned motorsports/schooling. (actually a government that is strongly anti-motorsport) That is why I have to remain glued to youtube :/
Dude pls give the subtitles below .. Pls dude cause I'm frm India so i haven't know fast and fluent English..
Use the option to use the auto generates subtitles by UA-cam????
I tried adding subtitles but the channel has disabled contribution....... the auto generated subtitles are 90% correct.....press "c" button on your keyboard when video is full screen to enable subtitles.....if you still have doubt..leave comment someone will reply
I would like to congratulate you on your channel I have had fun thank you so much I wanted to tell you that in June of the next year I am going to make a trip of resistance between lisbon and assen by motorcycle kawasaki zx10r 2009 and I am going to make the trip without stopping just to fill up I wanted to ask for help on how to ask for sponsorships for my trip or something thanks keep posting your videos thanks a lot Marco
Hey man I whatched a video and I got really confused... Can you explain me this 1 thing: In that video it said that after I pushed the bar the way I want to go I have to center the bar or the bike would fall. In a courner, after countersteering and the bike leaning do I keep on countersteering the way I want to go or do center the bar or do I steer? I don't have a bike to try this myself.
Too much emphasis is on counter-steering. Noone can steer a bike without it. You counter steer automatically. How much and how long has to do with the turn and speed. Not much different than a car. When you steer a car in a curve, when do you straighten the car? The same with a bike. You adjust your steering as needed during the ride. Bottom line is that counter-steering is one thing that you don't need to focus on, since it happens automatically. A 4 year old does it automatically on a bicycle. Good luck.
This video just came out of blue,, thanks for you .. just came back from an open track day .. I am using S1000R I was leaning till the pegs touching the ground but not my knee ... so I was going like hmmm I am doing something wrong here ... so I changed my foot position a Lil bit then my knees touching before the pegs ... yet I believe I need a rear set. any advice ??
hamad1979 keep going to track days where a pro can watch you because we cant see you here.
@@apollomorris9920 I beleive every thing explained well on what was going on track .. All I need is an advice if leaning to the maximum point needed a rear set for the BMW S1000R .. any way .. thanks Man.
hamad1979 ok yes get rear sets because you can increace lean with out hitting the peg.
@@apollomorris9920 Thanks bro
hamad1979 i had a BMW S 1000 RR 2016 with the BMW rear sets it has a gage that shows your lean angel 58 degrees no scraping for me.
I had an Aprilla RSV4 RF all done putting over 200hp to the rear tier. I have a love for that bike like no other.
4 Hondas one Yamaha 2 dirt bikes Kart racing car racing ski racing windsurfing ,
That Aprilla was the love of my life, when i come back to the states im getting another 2016 Aprilla RF.
Good material, but can’t agree with all the statements here ... lean angle of the motorbike is limited by the hardware (true, = pegs, exhaust etc.) - but the lean angle for the rider is the one he’s capable to control... pushing further will just create dangerous situation... I can see people trying to force the knee on the ground and other stuff on the track ... all of that will come with speed and experience ...
I’ve heard the angle is approx 52 Degrees, can anyone please verify
Cheers All 😊
All the leeeeeeeans
lowside 0:-)
My Tracer 900 has hero blobs on quite long sticks, 5cm or so.
I find it quite disconcerting when they touch down. Any thoughts on removing or shortening them?
The 'hero knobs' or kerb feelers are very easy to remove and will cause no issues at all by removing them. They really only get in the way.
I've removed them on every bike I own from my 2008 Fireblade down to my 1990 CBR250RR MC22.
@@stephenjando4285 interesting. It had crossed my mind that they might represent the design limit of lean for the bike, and that by removing them I might allow too much lean... but I'm guessing this is really limited by the tyres and available grip
@@wascallyrabbit7169 Good point, I think I'll go along it with a metre ruler and see what sticks out where and then consider removing them.
@@robocombo as wascallyrabbit mentioned, they were originally designed to be the first point to contact the ground before any other body parts or hardware on the bike and have nothing to do with the maximum lean angle at all.
The max lean angle depends on many other factors (such as suspension set up, rider weight, tyres, ergonomics, rearsets, and many more) and varies from bike to bike and rider to rider.
I would certainly check to make sure that there is nothing like an exhaust, centre stand, etc. will not touch the ground but most newer bikes won't be close from what I've seen.
You could even use a piece of string and just tape it under the centre of your bike and run it up each side to see if anything would touch if you find that easier than a large ruler.
Peg feelers are there to prevent you from going down more than you should. The tracer isn't meant for that, and its mainstand would have been dragged first before the feelers are.
"How much my mic sucks"
Marc Marquez got away with a 70 degree lean angle 😂
Lol he doesn't tell you about centrifugal force and lean angle . Your 1lb helmet turns into a 20lb rock . Better have a good neck .
Curb is spelled as Curb, not kerb.
Not in Britain.
Not true...you need more lean angle to get rid of those chicken strips for sure!
Whaat?