Yes, it's amazing what little gravel can do to traction, I had my rear tire slide on me the other day as I was exiting a corner just because of some gravel that was practically invisible to the naked eye. It was too damn close. Guys always check your road before doing anything crazy
As competition riders say when they teach on track "unless u reach very fast lap times, tyres are not the issue, shocks are not the issue... The issue is on the sit, work on yourself before trying to fix the bike!"
not always true, having the bike setup well means you ride with more feel and more confidence which means you go faster safer .... it is all connected. I have helped people knock several seconds off their lap and have more fun doing it with just a few clicks, and some basic tips on lines and gear selection. When a rider feels confident they push, same for every level from novice to GP
Donovan Piper that is absolutely true - the better the setup the better your confidence. Tyres perform according to suspension and pressure settings - stick 50 psi in a bike tyre and see how comfortable you feel ! Same for suspension.
A nice tip to overcome the block of corner entry speed and lean angle is to release the brakes a moment before you were considering to do so. What do I mean? When you think “In a moment I will release the brakes and start leaning the bike” do it then without further delay. You will increase your speed by a few km, you will momentarily worry and then realise it is just fine. After some practise you do it again and again. As long as you are mentally one step ahead of what you are doing it is fine. If you find yourself “chasing” your bike then roll off and go one level down.
It's true that the bike is more capable than most of us, but it's also true that when you keep pushing you will eventually exceed the limit and fall, just part of the game.
These are my fav type of videos. And def helped me in the beginning. Reassurance videos on tire limits def gave me the confidence I needed. Thanks for these.
I learnt on cheap bias ply tyres that came with my bike, found the limit of their traction (on the front mainly going down hill) then when I became comfortable with what they do in any given situation I upgraded to more capable radial tyres. Bike in question is a little 08 ninja 250 and the old tyres were shinko sr781, new tyres are diablo rosso 3. If I had started out with more capable tyres I wouldn't have found and became familiar with how tyres feel at their limit at much slower speeds. Probably not the best way for some but definitely helped me become more confident with my tyres.
road 5's on an 08 fz1n, savage tyre, took the bike to a track training day and really tested the tyres and limitations of the bike at low and high speeds, was a great way to get my confidence back after a lowside and a shattered clavicle.
I know the video is a trusting the tyres From my experience having a proper setup bike make a difference to how much you can trust tyre. Not just setup of suspension, gearing and geometry but the ergonomics, Handlebars, having a set of bars that are comfortable sweep and rise to allow a natural and strong position. Seat, having a good height and shape seat to allow freedom of movement forward/backward/side to side and not forced into one position. Foot pegs/adjustable rearsets, being able to move the pegs around to find strongest and most comfortable position to be able to weight the pegs and move around the bike with ease. Just being comfortable and able to weight the pegs I believe brings bags of confidence.
Seat time ! Cant say it enough ... A track day here n there isnt nearly enough , ya gotta go brave the country roads too.. Ride , then ride again , then ride some more .. Hot , cold , wet , dry , year round , just do it..
On track the biggest thing that helped has been setting up suspension for feel and body position- when they were off the tyres felt dodgy when even when fresh , now they are 3/4 worn and feel great. 30psi front and rear on track on road tyres helped improve grip and feel. Michelin power 5 awesome
There's some truth to what you say. I started racing on a renter CRF450 supermoto. Bike felt like on rails and I was able to learn very quickly. However now trying to do the same things on my own Husqvarna FE. I just can't. The suspension feels like I'm driving a boat. I just don't feel confident in it taking the bumps and jumps. Even my mechanic friend says I need to get that hardened up and potentially need more nitrogen in the rear shock as its completely bottoming out. (Annoying but such is the life of owning second hand machines).
Nyleen if youre bottoming out then it could be dangerous. You might need stiffer springs and thicker oil in shock and forks. You might even need more oil then recommended. Good luck whatever you fix though
Most track day newbies don't even touch their suspension sag, compression etc. If you take the time sort out you suspension it makes a huge difference not just to lap times looking at tyre tells you heaps about bike set up.
Patricia Richardson absolutely! Everyone check out Dave Moss Tuning to get started! I was initially nervous about changing spring and shock rates but like Dave says... “If you write it down, cant you put it back?”
Firstly, great channel! The advice here is such a great help. Thank you! My biggest problem, is just that. I’m trying to ride as much as possible and gently push some limits before winter sets in (I’m in the Northeast). One thing, I remember hearing, is that warm tires help. And I remember thinking, “how is that possible on cool days”? But yesterday, I was out practicing, the temperature was in the low 50s, I was headed home with my bike and stopped in the local NAPA to pick up a tire gauge. After looking at a couple, I brought one out to make sure that it would access the valve stem. It fit. But something surprised me. The tires were warm! Really warm! Even after, almost 5 minutes in the store. If you’ve never done it. Check it out sometime.
In riding track, tire temperature is very important. People typically set tires to lower PSI on track. While it does have the added benefit of making a slightly larger contact patch, the real benefit is that the tires warm up more the more they deflect their shape. Internal friction of the rubber bending, as an illustration. Those different pressures are actually used to achieve optimum tire temperature. I don't have a number for that, and it would be different with every tire anyway, but it's handy always lay a hand on your tire when you come in after a session. After a while, you'll start to have a feel of how the tire should feel for the grip you're trying to achieve, and that will let you know if your pressure is too high or too low, along with reading the tire wear.
nice topic and great analysis. As a new rider , i had supersport tyres fitted on my motorcycle (dunlop sportsmart) with winch i did my first track day. I really did not know if the tyre was good or bad, but i relied on my instructor's advice and tried to have my mind set on the correct technique and at the end of the day my motorcycle was in one piece (so was i) and had a blast. My second set of tyres was metzeler's m7rr. Great all around tyre in town and high pace rides to the twisties. When the time came i got in the track wit m7rr and when i got my mind off the tyres i managed to get to a pace very close to the next group. The last pair of rubbers ( dunlop sportsmart TT) was more an impulsive choice rather than a well thought decision. On the daily commute i think that they were not as good as i expected. But.... when we headed to the track (after about a 1.5-2 yerars lay off) just in the second session, i was able to push as much i did with the m7rr, improved my technique, lowered my lap times, and ha a great time. Honestly i do not know if the technique and the lessons that i took in all these years had that much to do, or the placebo safety and peace of mind that the softer tyre gave me so i could focus on driving, but for me (bike, bike setup,rider experience etc) the softer tyre made my life easier on track.
Tester Testerfield I use the M7RR’s. Great tyres. I’m yet to find their limit in traction and I push them hard at intermediate level on a GSXR750. I’m also off the edge of the rear tyre. They don’t last long on track days though.
@@sutt16v m7rr is a great tyre. It's a confidence booster in commuting an in track. Honestly I did two track days with them. One about 100klm after fitting them and one a few days before changing them. Both times I found them quite sticky. Imho, they are, maybe, the best real world compromise for in and out of the track use.
I enjoy your videos, but the more I watch the more I realize track riding is quite a different thing than street riding. I will never be able to push the limits and go as fast on the street. But I am finding it beneficial to translate some of these techniques to the street and it's much appreciated. Thanks
Best thing for me was picking it up as you roll on out of the corners. Gives me the confidence that if it goes sideways, its more likely to correct itself instead of going to a highside
Great advice. Personally, after a 19 year gap following a MAJOR RTC. And getting on a 16 plate Fireblade SP with relatively new tyres, I'm not worried about falling off, I just know how much the bike costs and the extras gone into it. Slowly but surely the chicken strips are getting smaller, down to 15mm now but can't seem to get the last bit or any lower.
With any bike at anytime- work to understand the grip/ feedback of the tires first thing, then you can play with the limits of them. Also, understand how mentally and physically strong or tired you are feeling at the moment- to save the bike if it steps out or tucks.
A couple months ago I grabbed a handful of front brakes cos i wasn't paying attention and almost rear-ended a car that was slowing down that was on my 2011 Ninja 650 with Pilot Road 5 tires. I was always under the belief (never really tried it) that since this bike's centre of mass is so low and it's also a very long bike it would always skid the front wheel if you punch it. That perception changed when I was in line vertically with my handle bars. Fortunately i was only going like 15 so i let go and it all came down nicely but that really impressed me about the tyres. The road 5 have wet street riding as their main focus and the front wheel has ridges across it's width all the way around so you'd thing that tyre is not great with front wheel loads, but those tyres keep surprising me with the amount of black magic they have in them. I take this same bike to track and even punching it out of corners, and i don't care if people say the ninja 650 is a "beginner" bike it will still have 2x the torque of a 600 inline 4 when you punch it and even like that I never even had a skid whilst accelerating. I'm not going too crazy and risky though, i track ride mostly for fun and I like to go only as fast as comfortable but at the same time improving on things little bits at a time.
I took a riding course where the instructors were pro or semi pro racers on metric cruisers. They were kicking the shit out of us on much more sport oriented bikes. That was truly confidence inspiring because once they taught us the techniques, followed their lines and matched their (likely 60% pace) speed our bike obviously had so much more in them.
I am upper intermediate pace, my small barrier right now is carrying more speed deeper into the corner. Also braking into T1, I’m better than 75% of folks but I need to push a bit more. I did on my last track day, locked up the rear on accident, left me going into the grass but I kept it up. Testing those limits feels good
I've never actually used track tyres or even tyres designed with track use in mind yet but I plan to in future, I just run Dunlop sportsmart 2 Maxes, they steer nice and quick and have enough grip to run at the upper end of inters without feeling like I'm playing with the limit of adhesion too often. I love the video, its very informative and highlights very well the mental blocks people experience through not trusting tyres and how that can impede one's progress, your videos help so many people gain confidence along with knowledge and they're a pleasure to watch 👌
Michelin Road 5s are the best tires I’ve ever run. They work in the rain and with the duel compound the have soft slick rubber on the sides. They claim 10,000 miles. I have the S21s by Bridgestone. They have a lot of grip when it was hot and dry. They weren’t great in the rain and they only got 3000 miles on my bike.
Different tyres suit different people, I personally don't get on too well with Michelins or Bridgestones whereas others love them, it's all personal preference at the end of the day, I love the feel of Dunlops.
I've totally learned how much more the tires have to give when I've made mistakes lol. Nothing like braking way too late then realizing how much you have on the table with the tires.
It takes time and consistency. I never give up learning to ride a smooth ride on circuit. Just be patient. So far the Pirelli SC compound seem to give me the best feedback for my setup.
Weirdly enough, coming from Miata racing I’ve always pushed more on entry, knowing that once I’m back on the gas my chance to make up time is gone. I’ve had the front wash a few inches more times than I can count 😂. Just letting off the brakes a little more gets it to grip back up.
I got a friend's mini for riding around a parking lot. I managed to get low enough to lose the rear. Progress =D and now I added my own scratches on a CRF85 that's been crashed more times than most peoples bikes hit the track.
When braking your initial squeeze should be gentle, allowing the fork to compress and rebound some, then give it loads as the fork has loaded then firmed up, you will stop a LOT harder than if you just grab a handful, as the fork will bottom almost immediately and never actually help your braking.
next vid about getting back to you level after a heavy crash pls I had a heavy crash about 2 weeks ago and fear when I recovered from my injuries that I have a fear of getting back o high lean angles or fast riding If you have any ideas for that I would be very grateful :)
Here are some of my thoughts on getting back up to your previous level .First is to wanting to get back to pushing to the edge again. Lots of riders pack it up after a big crash so that has to be addressed 1st. Second thing is understand what happened and what caused the crash. Talk to people if you don't know what happened.If you want to race again and know what caused the crash ,I would say do as many track days as it takes to get you back to 75% then you can work through the corner and the issue. This topic is a good one ! I'm 59 yrs old have only been racing for 5 yrs and cracked both collar bones and broke my thumb all in different crashes. On some level everyone questions if they can get back on the hoarse even Michael Dunlop . Good luck !!
@@manwithabird thank you....I kinda now what happend...my rear tire slipped...then regained traction and then i started to serve around with my handelbars tankslapping...and after that i hit a guardrail(small supermoto track)...i only broke my foot but still after working on repearing my bike I drove down the street a little bit and felt tenuous
T. Val hey man, sorry to hear about your accident. This applies to anything in life that carries a serious risk. I’ve had an accident and felt really uneasy after getting back on. But honestly knowing what happened and learning from it as well as time, really helped me get back to where I was. You can’t force it. It takes some time. Time heals all. And you can be certain you’ll be extra careful not to recreate that mistake again. Good luck buddy. Just get back on and take your time. It’ll come back you brother.
It was in motocross, but I had a few bad crashes and I got faster after each one. The way I looked at it is. I'm still here, and it wasn't too bad because I'm still here and I will be after the next one too. But more than likely, that was the big one to learn from, and now I know more about how far can push it or what to watch out for. Then there is just having the mindset of not being defeated, not ending it on a bad mark. Have Faith in yourself brother!
I would also say 2 weeks is still very fresh. I was stuck on a couch for 3 months with legs and arms in casts from the tips of my toes and fingers all the way to my crotch and elbow. Plenty of time to think it over & more importantly, Miss riding. And towards the end of it when I was almost healed and was put into less restricive casts I was already riding around on my pitbike. First week of riding race bike I was already putting in way hotter lap times. So give it some time. Recover Fully not just physically but mentally. Chill out and watch some good moto films that make you want to go out and ride. Then go give it a shot
I have been a subscriber to life at lean since the start, i have always felt his videos lack technical details and offer simply information which quiet everyone knows... well may be to an absoulte beginner these advices might be helpful... Talking about tyres, he never explained the technique of when to gas out of exit, which in other channel luca salvadori explained to avoid high side, effectiveness of tyre temperaruture and its effects on grippiness... material of tyres used in motogp, at what angle to twist throttle for starters, how to get feel from tyres, what tyre choices are best for what type of corners to get best traction. Etc All he advices in all videos is nothing but practice and practice, which i think everyone knows sure enough... we need technical details... For tech videos check out motovudu, or luca salvadoris channel, or tech talk by simon crafar, or alberto naskas channel
I started riding/racing at 10years old on MX tracks, now at 50 l've just started riding a Supermoto on tarmac. It feels so strange to lean a bike over so far at speed without a rut to rely on, and having no idea of the limits of road tires. Add to that the different ways to turn a motorcycle.. Weight the inside foot peg more like a road bike or weight the outside peg like a dirt bike ? I know that l'll have to do a track day Supermoto school very soon. I see so many riders riding these bikes with both styles that l don't know what to do ?? I feel like a learner rider (which l am now l guess)
Think about a small car. My MT-07 has 185 width tires. I manage a tire shop, I see tires smaller than the rear of my bike on the daily. Have trust in the weight x the traction
I have the opposite problem, pretty much. I'm so used to taking liberties and being an idiot with my SC1 tyres that I keep running out of grip on other "track/street hybrid" tyres and I have no idea how to find the limits of new (lesser) tyres and ride within them. What's the best way to go around this issue?
I drag knee on my RC390 and FZR400 all the time, but I'm intimidated by my 748. My 959 Panigale was a little hard to tip in all the way, but I could cope and yank that beast out of corners... 748 still has chicken strips. I don't know what it is about that bike that scares me.
Go on track. Book on novice if it intimidates you. It’s the safest place you can go. The track is clean No potholes You get to repeat the same lap after lap It’s a 1 way system Everyone is split in to ability groups There’s flags to warn you You don’t stop so tyres stay warm No side roads No pedestrians No speed cameras No brainer
Hey, I have Bridgestone RS10R on the front and rear of my 2019 zx10r and am riding it on the track for about 6 track days now. I’m getting better and got both the knees down but am told I should move on to slicks if I want to get better times, are the RS10R’s still good for me? I can’t afford slicks for a few more months
I have crashed while leaning, I lowsided. After the crash I really dont have the confidence to push that much and I always have a constant fear in my mind. For reference video is on my channel
I lowsided on the street several years ago. Always had a mental issue with gravel after that. ANY gravel in the corner and I'd get tense, freeze up on the bars, etc. Doing track days has helped immensely in that regard. I'm still a novice, but the controlled environment helps a ton. Now on the street, if the front moves around a bit on some gravel, I can remain loose and let the bike move under me and correct it without white-knuckling the bars and making the issue worse. Definitely been in some hairy situations since then and can absolutely attribute my "better" reaction to the track experience.
I'm still trying to overcome it. Losing the frontend on a corner exit didn't help with the confidence either. I've been watching all these vids and still haven't found the "hint" that tells me why the front went lose on the exit and then finally let go. Anywayz, practice practice practice....
@@papo140 Or rather, you could also say, too much throttle for the amount of lean angle? I have a feeling my lean angle is where it needed to be to put me in the right spot. So really what you're saying is too much throttle lifted the front and reduced grip? Makes sense. I know it finally let go because I paniced and chopped the throttle. So what I need to practice is balancing the bike through the corner. Thanks. :D
I low sided on the road and its thrown all my trust for the tyres out the window, due to diesel on the road even though i know it wasn't all my fault my confidence is gone and struggling to regain it, especially in leaning the bike.
Same thing happened to me; I never had trust issues in my bike, rather the opposite, but after that low side I was really distrustful for a few days. Then I forgot about it and my usual insanity kicked back in.
I got over my fear by consistently picking up the rear when braking and nearly high siding on exit several times. Not I just come to expect both and they dont phase me.
When I try to brake a little bit harder than my comfort zone in straight line, it feels like I am at the traction limit on the front tire. Comparing myself to other riders (intermediate group), I know I brake quite hard, but I think I have still some margin before the rear leaves the ground... Do I really have room to break harder? Honestly it feels like I don't. My tires are Michelin Power RS. Probably not the best for track riding, but Its awesome on the road, and think it's good enougth, isn't it? Would I experience different feeling with track specific tires?
PAD32 you’ll def endo before you lose traction on your front tire. Assuming the pavement is clean. No doubt about that. Rest assured you’ll kiss the pavement before you lose traction.
Depends how you’re braking, tyre pressures maybe, are you pulling the initial pressure for the weight transfer before really pulling the leaving, or are you jumping to step 2 straight away, can make a difference. Track specific tyres will make a difference, all being well, good body position, correct pressures, warmed up, fully upright etc, you can bury the tire into the tarmac on the brakes, it’s impressive.
Well hell. UA-cam finally stuck a tyre advert on a video about tyres. Sure it was car tyres but hey. Atleast it wasnt feminine hygiene products or some equally irrelevant stuff
Hi Dan, Great tips as always. Could you do a video on how and when (if at all) to use the rear brakes in the track? I found myself stuck with setting up correctly for the corner when my foot is often busy with the rear brakes. Thanks
I am starting out riding. I’m 15 living in finland and bought my first motorcycle for the track about 5months ago. First went to a go-cart track to find the balance and the proper way to do it and got some progress. I was afraid to go on the throttle not because i would lose traction and fall but if i would ride out if the track. I dont really know how to trust the tyres but i have gained some confidence when im out riding with my dad because he goes into deepish lean angles and im seeing that the tyres can do it but my mind cant. My problem is i know what to do but just dont know how. Somebody give some help or tips? And i know my english is bad.
As you lean the bike/you over, try to keep your head and eyes level. Look for your turn Apex reference point and aim for that. Once you know you're going to meet that point, look for the next point through the corner Exit and aim for that. Remember, keeping your head and eyes level will stop that "unsettling", or falling feeling mid turn. Hope this helps, and good luck!
Hey make sure your tires are new. I was at the complete edge of grip on my ancient tires from 2008. I felt the bike want to low side and I thought I should push through but my body told me no. When I got new tires within a week I was knee dragging. Lol stupid me thank god I never crashed but I learned and I think others could learn from my experience too
Michael Rullis yup. The first thing im doing when the next season of riding starts here is to buy a new set of tires and possibly a set of tyre warmers. Starting out slow aiming to go fast.
Moi @Eagle. You need to check MotoVudu (Simon Crafar, eg-GP Rider and Ohlins race technician), and California Superbike School (Keith Code / Andy Ibbott) during the long Finnish off-season. Without the chance to put their lessons into practice, you won't make much progress, but there's plenty to think about before the 2020 track season. You have six good tracks to try in Finland, counting the new Kymi Ring. So I'd suggest the younger, more open, ones as safer places to start. Kart tracks are unlikely to be worth your time. Kemora, Botniaring, Alastaro, Ahvenisto, Motopark, hope those are spelled about right... The CSS three level syllabus is the only actual School though the books and video could be hard to adopt, the CSS Europe does still run some courses that might be possible for you. Of course Dan has some great insights and presentation so I suggest you see all his videos too. Simon does instruct under his MotoVudu brand and has some great ex-champions to instruct in their home countries outside Andorra, where he is based. He does some great locations like Motorland Aragon in southern Spain. If you can get to the UK, we have many good and some great tracks, with hire track bikes a possibility for you and your dad to try. Silverstone is now the longest MotoGP track, with the best surface, and Yamaha track bikes for hire. Hei hei!
For me, it was swapping from street rubber to race rubber. Felt like I had such a huge safety net to work with that I immediately was able to start dragging the knee when I had been too nervous to do so before.
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Riders do , but shouldn't concern themselves with chicken strips.. Bike needs to be really leaned low, lower than public streets would need. Also has to do with tire profile and psi. Imo to get that low on roads you'd need to stay sitting more upright even a bit to the opposing side of turn angle instead of sitting more off the bike into the lean as most would say that's how to keep maximum patch of rubber on rode, but realistically it the edges aren't being used enough to be leaving "chicken strips" it's highly likely you're not gonna be running out of traction then when not shifting body off the seat like pro racers do. Tires are much more capable of lean than riders give credit for. I'm proof bc I don't shift and make low enough leans with a thin edge of "chicken strip", based on not using brakes at Apex and maximum lean. Shifting into the lean would actually leave a wider strip in roads and only on tracks rubbing off the edges. Some will argue against that, but just really think about that logic of what I stated.
Lol I guess in one aspect this video did “not “ age well…because saying “you’re not Marc Marquez “in reference to saving oneself from a wipeout seems a lil bit like an oxymoron this year (so far) ….it should be “you don’t want to be like Marc Marquez”…..😂😜
I trust the tires, I don't trust the road. Tracks are more trust worthy
This.
Yes, it's amazing what little gravel can do to traction, I had my rear tire slide on me the other day as I was exiting a corner just because of some gravel that was practically invisible to the naked eye. It was too damn close. Guys always check your road before doing anything crazy
that is the bigger problem .
Agree, I almost crash cause of gravel I couldn't see in the middle of the corner......that's why I don't do crazy things on unfamiliar roads
Agreed...it's the road I don't trust to allow my tires to gip.
As competition riders say when they teach on track "unless u reach very fast lap times, tyres are not the issue, shocks are not the issue... The issue is on the sit, work on yourself before trying to fix the bike!"
I totally agree with that, confidence is a major factor when learning to ride a motorcycle quickly
not always true, having the bike setup well means you ride with more feel and more confidence which means you go faster safer .... it is all connected. I have helped people knock several seconds off their lap and have more fun doing it with just a few clicks, and some basic tips on lines and gear selection. When a rider feels confident they push, same for every level from novice to GP
Suspension matters at every skill level and speed
Donovan Piper that is absolutely true - the better the setup the better your confidence. Tyres perform according to suspension and pressure settings - stick 50 psi in a bike tyre and see how comfortable you feel ! Same for suspension.
A nice tip to overcome the block of corner entry speed and lean angle is to release the brakes a moment before you were considering to do so. What do I mean? When you think “In a moment I will release the brakes and start leaning the bike” do it then without further delay. You will increase your speed by a few km, you will momentarily worry and then realise it is just fine. After some practise you do it again and again. As long as you are mentally one step ahead of what you are doing it is fine. If you find yourself “chasing” your bike then roll off and go one level down.
Started slow...
1 year later and I'm using all my tire
You really did help me bro! Thanks!
It's true that the bike is more capable than most of us, but it's also true that when you keep pushing you will eventually exceed the limit and fall, just part of the game.
Nice to see guys discussing trust issues.
Also, tire warmers.
These are my fav type of videos. And def helped me in the beginning. Reassurance videos on tire limits def gave me the confidence I needed. Thanks for these.
I learnt on cheap bias ply tyres that came with my bike, found the limit of their traction (on the front mainly going down hill) then when I became comfortable with what they do in any given situation I upgraded to more capable radial tyres.
Bike in question is a little 08 ninja 250 and the old tyres were shinko sr781, new tyres are diablo rosso 3.
If I had started out with more capable tyres I wouldn't have found and became familiar with how tyres feel at their limit at much slower speeds.
Probably not the best way for some but definitely helped me become more confident with my tyres.
road 5's on an 08 fz1n, savage tyre, took the bike to a track training day and really tested the tyres and limitations of the bike at low and high speeds, was a great way to get my confidence back after a lowside and a shattered clavicle.
I know the video is a trusting the tyres
From my experience having a proper setup bike make a difference to how much you can trust tyre.
Not just setup of suspension, gearing and geometry but the ergonomics,
Handlebars, having a set of bars that are comfortable sweep and rise to allow a natural and strong position.
Seat, having a good height and shape seat to allow freedom of movement forward/backward/side to side and not forced into one position.
Foot pegs/adjustable rearsets, being able to move the pegs around to find strongest and most comfortable position to be able to weight the pegs and move around the bike with ease.
Just being comfortable and able to weight the pegs I believe brings bags of confidence.
Making sure i have the best possible tyres and best possibly setup. Making myself believe this is my way to keep improving with correct technique.
Seat time ! Cant say it enough ... A track day here n there isnt nearly enough , ya gotta go brave the country roads too.. Ride , then ride again , then ride some more .. Hot , cold , wet , dry , year round , just do it..
On track the biggest thing that helped has been setting up suspension for feel and body position- when they were off the tyres felt dodgy when even when fresh , now they are 3/4 worn and feel great. 30psi front and rear on track on road tyres helped improve grip and feel. Michelin power 5 awesome
I feel suspension setup is key to trusting the tyres , which out that correct you will struggle to get more confidence with the tyres.
There's some truth to what you say.
I started racing on a renter CRF450 supermoto. Bike felt like on rails and I was able to learn very quickly.
However now trying to do the same things on my own Husqvarna FE. I just can't. The suspension feels like I'm driving a boat. I just don't feel confident in it taking the bumps and jumps.
Even my mechanic friend says I need to get that hardened up and potentially need more nitrogen in the rear shock as its completely bottoming out. (Annoying but such is the life of owning second hand machines).
Nyleen if youre bottoming out then it could be dangerous. You might need stiffer springs and thicker oil in shock and forks. You might even need more oil then recommended. Good luck whatever you fix though
Most track day newbies don't even touch their suspension sag, compression etc. If you take the time sort out you suspension it makes a huge difference not just to lap times looking at tyre tells you heaps about bike set up.
Patricia Richardson absolutely! Everyone check out Dave Moss Tuning to get started! I was initially nervous about changing spring and shock rates but like Dave says... “If you write it down, cant you put it back?”
@@nyleen Compared to the crf450 you likely are.
Firstly, great channel! The advice here is such a great help. Thank you!
My biggest problem, is just that. I’m trying to ride as much as possible and gently push some limits before winter sets in (I’m in the Northeast).
One thing, I remember hearing, is that warm tires help. And I remember thinking, “how is that possible on cool days”? But yesterday, I was out practicing, the temperature was in the low 50s, I was headed home with my bike and stopped in the local NAPA to pick up a tire gauge. After looking at a couple, I brought one out to make sure that it would access the valve stem. It fit. But something surprised me. The tires were warm! Really warm! Even after, almost 5 minutes in the store. If you’ve never done it. Check it out sometime.
In riding track, tire temperature is very important. People typically set tires to lower PSI on track. While it does have the added benefit of making a slightly larger contact patch, the real benefit is that the tires warm up more the more they deflect their shape. Internal friction of the rubber bending, as an illustration. Those different pressures are actually used to achieve optimum tire temperature. I don't have a number for that, and it would be different with every tire anyway, but it's handy always lay a hand on your tire when you come in after a session. After a while, you'll start to have a feel of how the tire should feel for the grip you're trying to achieve, and that will let you know if your pressure is too high or too low, along with reading the tire wear.
nice topic and great analysis.
As a new rider , i had supersport tyres fitted on my motorcycle (dunlop sportsmart) with winch i did my first track day. I really did not know if the tyre was good or bad, but i relied on my instructor's advice and tried to have my mind set on the correct technique and at the end of the day my motorcycle was in one piece (so was i) and had a blast.
My second set of tyres was metzeler's m7rr. Great all around tyre in town and high pace rides to the twisties. When the time came i got in the track wit m7rr and when i got my mind off the tyres i managed to get to a pace very close to the next group.
The last pair of rubbers ( dunlop sportsmart TT) was more an impulsive choice rather than a well thought decision. On the daily commute i think that they were not as good as i expected. But.... when we headed to the track (after about a 1.5-2 yerars lay off) just in the second session, i was able to push as much i did with the m7rr, improved my technique, lowered my lap times, and ha a great time.
Honestly i do not know if the technique and the lessons that i took in all these years had that much to do, or the placebo safety and peace of mind that the softer tyre gave me so i could focus on driving, but for me (bike, bike setup,rider experience etc) the softer tyre made my life easier on track.
Tester Testerfield I use the M7RR’s. Great tyres. I’m yet to find their limit in traction and I push them hard at intermediate level on a GSXR750. I’m also off the edge of the rear tyre. They don’t last long on track days though.
@@sutt16v m7rr is a great tyre. It's a confidence booster in commuting an in track. Honestly I did two track days with them. One about 100klm after fitting them and one a few days before changing them. Both times I found them quite sticky. Imho, they are, maybe, the best real world compromise for in and out of the track use.
I enjoy your videos, but the more I watch the more I realize track riding is quite a different thing than street riding. I will never be able to push the limits and go as fast on the street. But I am finding it beneficial to translate some of these techniques to the street and it's much appreciated. Thanks
Best thing for me was picking it up as you roll on out of the corners. Gives me the confidence that if it goes sideways, its more likely to correct itself instead of going to a highside
Great advice. Personally, after a 19 year gap following a MAJOR RTC. And getting on a 16 plate Fireblade SP with relatively new tyres, I'm not worried about falling off, I just know how much the bike costs and the extras gone into it. Slowly but surely the chicken strips are getting smaller, down to 15mm now but can't seem to get the last bit or any lower.
i don't know how this guy doesn't have way more subs, this content is actually good.
With any bike at anytime- work to understand the grip/ feedback of the tires first thing, then you can play with the limits of them.
Also, understand how mentally and physically strong or tired you are feeling at the moment- to save the bike if it steps out or tucks.
A couple months ago I grabbed a handful of front brakes cos i wasn't paying attention and almost rear-ended a car that was slowing down that was on my 2011 Ninja 650 with Pilot Road 5 tires. I was always under the belief (never really tried it) that since this bike's centre of mass is so low and it's also a very long bike it would always skid the front wheel if you punch it. That perception changed when I was in line vertically with my handle bars. Fortunately i was only going like 15 so i let go and it all came down nicely but that really impressed me about the tyres. The road 5 have wet street riding as their main focus and the front wheel has ridges across it's width all the way around so you'd thing that tyre is not great with front wheel loads, but those tyres keep surprising me with the amount of black magic they have in them. I take this same bike to track and even punching it out of corners, and i don't care if people say the ninja 650 is a "beginner" bike it will still have 2x the torque of a 600 inline 4 when you punch it and even like that I never even had a skid whilst accelerating. I'm not going too crazy and risky though, i track ride mostly for fun and I like to go only as fast as comfortable but at the same time improving on things little bits at a time.
I took a riding course where the instructors were pro or semi pro racers on metric cruisers. They were kicking the shit out of us on much more sport oriented bikes. That was truly confidence inspiring because once they taught us the techniques, followed their lines and matched their (likely 60% pace) speed our bike obviously had so much more in them.
I am upper intermediate pace, my small barrier right now is carrying more speed deeper into the corner. Also braking into T1, I’m better than 75% of folks but I need to push a bit more. I did on my last track day, locked up the rear on accident, left me going into the grass but I kept it up. Testing those limits feels good
I've never actually used track tyres or even tyres designed with track use in mind yet but I plan to in future, I just run Dunlop sportsmart 2 Maxes, they steer nice and quick and have enough grip to run at the upper end of inters without feeling like I'm playing with the limit of adhesion too often. I love the video, its very informative and highlights very well the mental blocks people experience through not trusting tyres and how that can impede one's progress, your videos help so many people gain confidence along with knowledge and they're a pleasure to watch 👌
Michelin Road 5s are the best tires I’ve ever run. They work in the rain and with the duel compound the have soft slick rubber on the sides. They claim 10,000 miles. I have the S21s by Bridgestone. They have a lot of grip when it was hot and dry. They weren’t great in the rain and they only got 3000 miles on my bike.
Different tyres suit different people, I personally don't get on too well with Michelins or Bridgestones whereas others love them, it's all personal preference at the end of the day, I love the feel of Dunlops.
I've totally learned how much more the tires have to give when I've made mistakes lol. Nothing like braking way too late then realizing how much you have on the table with the tires.
It takes time and consistency. I never give up learning to ride a smooth ride on circuit. Just be patient. So far the Pirelli SC compound seem to give me the best feedback for my setup.
Only push on turns you really know, going slightly faster each time around
Weirdly enough, coming from Miata racing I’ve always pushed more on entry, knowing that once I’m back on the gas my chance to make up time is gone. I’ve had the front wash a few inches more times than I can count 😂. Just letting off the brakes a little more gets it to grip back up.
Technique and experience... So, no magic, huh? :) Great video!
I got a friend's mini for riding around a parking lot. I managed to get low enough to lose the rear. Progress =D and now I added my own scratches on a CRF85 that's been crashed more times than most peoples bikes hit the track.
I love your clarity well done
Great content. I’m just getting back on the track after 8 years off.
Cheers👍
supercorsa sc, always :O
Fook. I'm extra sad riding season is over here in the NYC area. This video makes me want to hit the track ASAP.
I'm with you from New Jersey :-(( I just practice in large parking lots on nicer days.
Trailer down to the South!
Ayyee the tri state club! Jersey here and damn its getting cold!
just when i was really starting to get the hang of things too
When braking your initial squeeze should be gentle, allowing the fork to compress and rebound some, then give it loads as the fork has loaded then firmed up, you will stop a LOT harder than if you just grab a handful, as the fork will bottom almost immediately and never actually help your braking.
Do a 2 up ride if you can to get confidence in those tires as a beginner. Shaved 10 secs off my laptime.
Low sided, coach told me, pinning throttle too early, and need a better hang off position to off set the bike angle. hope it helps
Great Video Dan. I've picked up a lot from this Video.
im just scared to go lower...im using the rear tire but i dont know when i ve to stop leaning more
I don't have tyres but tires. will these still apply to mine?
I'm a few mm from the edge of my tyres on the road
I simply cannot commit any further than that with cars, potholes, animals etc waiting to kill me
Thanks for the video, Dan, food for thought as always. How do you like your ZX10R?
Really like it mate!
next vid about getting back to you level after a heavy crash pls
I had a heavy crash about 2 weeks ago and fear when I recovered from my injuries that I have a fear of getting back o high lean angles or fast riding
If you have any ideas for that I would be very grateful :)
Here are some of my thoughts on getting back up to your previous level .First is to wanting to get back to pushing to the edge again. Lots of riders pack it up after a big crash so that has to be addressed 1st. Second thing is understand what happened and what caused the crash. Talk to people if you don't know what happened.If you want to race again and know what caused the crash ,I would say do as many track days as it takes to get you back to 75% then you can work through the corner and the issue. This topic is a good one ! I'm 59 yrs old have only been racing for 5 yrs and cracked both collar bones and broke my thumb all in different crashes. On some level everyone questions if they can get back on the hoarse even Michael Dunlop . Good luck !!
@@manwithabird thank you....I kinda now what happend...my rear tire slipped...then regained traction and then i started to serve around with my handelbars tankslapping...and after that i hit a guardrail(small supermoto track)...i only broke my foot but still after working on repearing my bike I drove down the street a little bit and felt tenuous
T. Val hey man, sorry to hear about your accident. This applies to anything in life that carries a serious risk. I’ve had an accident and felt really uneasy after getting back on. But honestly knowing what happened and learning from it as well as time, really helped me get back to where I was. You can’t force it. It takes some time. Time heals all. And you can be certain you’ll be extra careful not to recreate that mistake again. Good luck buddy. Just get back on and take your time. It’ll come back you brother.
It was in motocross, but I had a few bad crashes and I got faster after each one. The way I looked at it is. I'm still here, and it wasn't too bad because I'm still here and I will be after the next one too. But more than likely, that was the big one to learn from, and now I know more about how far can push it or what to watch out for. Then there is just having the mindset of not being defeated, not ending it on a bad mark. Have Faith in yourself brother!
I would also say 2 weeks is still very fresh. I was stuck on a couch for 3 months with legs and arms in casts from the tips of my toes and fingers all the way to my crotch and elbow. Plenty of time to think it over & more importantly, Miss riding. And towards the end of it when I was almost healed and was put into less restricive casts I was already riding around on my pitbike. First week of riding race bike I was already putting in way hotter lap times.
So give it some time. Recover Fully not just physically but mentally. Chill out and watch some good moto films that make you want to go out and ride. Then go give it a shot
I have been a subscriber to life at lean since the start, i have always felt his videos lack technical details and offer simply information which quiet everyone knows... well may be to an absoulte beginner these advices might be helpful...
Talking about tyres, he never explained the technique of when to gas out of exit, which in other channel luca salvadori explained to avoid high side, effectiveness of tyre temperaruture and its effects on grippiness... material of tyres used in motogp, at what angle to twist throttle for starters, how to get feel from tyres, what tyre choices are best for what type of corners to get best traction. Etc
All he advices in all videos is nothing but practice and practice, which i think everyone knows sure enough... we need technical details...
For tech videos check out motovudu, or luca salvadoris channel, or tech talk by simon crafar, or alberto naskas channel
how long can your tire hold the road? if your not riding on track but in the public road which it has more danger than the track
Thanks for great information.
I started riding/racing at 10years old on MX tracks, now at 50 l've just started riding a Supermoto on tarmac. It feels so strange to lean a bike over so far at speed without a rut to rely on, and having no idea of the limits of road tires. Add to that the different ways to turn a motorcycle.. Weight the inside foot peg more like a road bike or weight the outside peg like a dirt bike ? I know that l'll have to do a track day Supermoto school very soon. I see so many riders riding these bikes with both styles that l don't know what to do ?? I feel like a learner rider (which l am now l guess)
So a little before the apex/at the apex, the bike should just be rolling, and only apply throttle smoothly as you're exiting?
👍....thanks a million, mate!!
Think about a small car. My MT-07 has 185 width tires. I manage a tire shop, I see tires smaller than the rear of my bike on the daily. Have trust in the weight x the traction
" sending you into the kitty litter" hahaha 😺
I have the opposite problem, pretty much. I'm so used to taking liberties and being an idiot with my SC1 tyres that I keep running out of grip on other "track/street hybrid" tyres and I have no idea how to find the limits of new (lesser) tyres and ride within them. What's the best way to go around this issue?
To build trust, you have to spell "tires" correctly :P
Thank you for the video!
I drag knee on my RC390 and FZR400 all the time, but I'm intimidated by my 748. My 959 Panigale was a little hard to tip in all the way, but I could cope and yank that beast out of corners... 748 still has chicken strips. I don't know what it is about that bike that scares me.
Go on track.
Book on novice if it intimidates you.
It’s the safest place you can go.
The track is clean
No potholes
You get to repeat the same lap after lap
It’s a 1 way system
Everyone is split in to ability groups
There’s flags to warn you
You don’t stop so tyres stay warm
No side roads
No pedestrians
No speed cameras
No brainer
Supercorsa Sp's are awful when the degrees get under 12 °C
What about Dunlop q4
@@rickyboy199554 dont now we do not have those tires
Hey, I have Bridgestone RS10R on the front and rear of my 2019 zx10r and am riding it on the track for about 6 track days now. I’m getting better and got both the knees down but am told I should move on to slicks if I want to get better times, are the RS10R’s still good for me? I can’t afford slicks for a few more months
Thanks
I have crashed while leaning, I lowsided. After the crash I really dont have the confidence to push that much and I always have a constant fear in my mind. For reference video is on my channel
I lowsided on the street several years ago. Always had a mental issue with gravel after that. ANY gravel in the corner and I'd get tense, freeze up on the bars, etc. Doing track days has helped immensely in that regard. I'm still a novice, but the controlled environment helps a ton. Now on the street, if the front moves around a bit on some gravel, I can remain loose and let the bike move under me and correct it without white-knuckling the bars and making the issue worse. Definitely been in some hairy situations since then and can absolutely attribute my "better" reaction to the track experience.
When I take corners ,my body only takes maximum lean angle ,not my bike. So how can I do corners for leaning my bike?
I'm still trying to overcome it. Losing the frontend on a corner exit didn't help with the confidence either. I've been watching all these vids and still haven't found the "hint" that tells me why the front went lose on the exit and then finally let go. Anywayz, practice practice practice....
I did the same. I think my mistake was adding lean angel and throttle at the same time.
if you lost it on corner exit it was too much lean for the amount of throttle.
@@papo140 Or rather, you could also say, too much throttle for the amount of lean angle? I have a feeling my lean angle is where it needed to be to put me in the right spot. So really what you're saying is too much throttle lifted the front and reduced grip? Makes sense. I know it finally let go because I paniced and chopped the throttle. So what I need to practice is balancing the bike through the corner. Thanks. :D
I low sided on the road and its thrown all my trust for the tyres out the window, due to diesel on the road even though i know it wasn't all my fault my confidence is gone and struggling to regain it, especially in leaning the bike.
Same thing happened to me; I never had trust issues in my bike, rather the opposite, but after that low side I was really distrustful for a few days. Then I forgot about it and my usual insanity kicked back in.
@@TheDistortion93 thanks for sharing brother!🤙🏼
I got over my fear by consistently picking up the rear when braking and nearly high siding on exit several times. Not I just come to expect both and they dont phase me.
Q4 and cbr1000rr 2013 all the way on the public twisties.
When I try to brake a little bit harder than my comfort zone in straight line, it feels like I am at the traction limit on the front tire. Comparing myself to other riders (intermediate group), I know I brake quite hard, but I think I have still some margin before the rear leaves the ground... Do I really have room to break harder? Honestly it feels like I don't.
My tires are Michelin Power RS. Probably not the best for track riding, but Its awesome on the road, and think it's good enougth, isn't it? Would I experience different feeling with track specific tires?
PAD32 you’ll def endo before you lose traction on your front tire. Assuming the pavement is clean. No doubt about that. Rest assured you’ll kiss the pavement before you lose traction.
@@TwinTurboLsx Agreed !!!
Depends how you’re braking, tyre pressures maybe, are you pulling the initial pressure for the weight transfer before really pulling the leaving, or are you jumping to step 2 straight away, can make a difference. Track specific tyres will make a difference, all being well, good body position, correct pressures, warmed up, fully upright etc, you can bury the tire into the tarmac on the brakes, it’s impressive.
3:20 what does he mean with "Not pushing the front tyre going in"??
Well hell. UA-cam finally stuck a tyre advert on a video about tyres. Sure it was car tyres but hey.
Atleast it wasnt feminine hygiene products or some equally irrelevant stuff
Might have to update that Mark Marquez reference.
Even he can't save that Honda now!
Hi Dan, Great tips as always. Could you do a video on how and when (if at all) to use the rear brakes in the track? I found myself stuck with setting up correctly for the corner when my foot is often busy with the rear brakes. Thanks
I don't use the rear brake at all Daniel, so it would be a pretty short video 😜
Im 140kg on a 01 r1. Im very scared to lean it over
I have trusted promblem on my tyres when rain
a few months back I didn't have enough trust problems with my tires when it was raining...
I am starting out riding. I’m 15 living in finland and bought my first motorcycle for the track about 5months ago. First went to a go-cart track to find the balance and the proper way to do it and got some progress. I was afraid to go on the throttle not because i would lose traction and fall but if i would ride out if the track. I dont really know how to trust the tyres but i have gained some confidence when im out riding with my dad because he goes into deepish lean angles and im seeing that the tyres can do it but my mind cant. My problem is i know what to do but just dont know how. Somebody give some help or tips? And i know my english is bad.
As you lean the bike/you over, try to keep your head and eyes level. Look for your turn Apex reference point and aim for that. Once you know you're going to meet that point, look for the next point through the corner Exit and aim for that. Remember, keeping your head and eyes level will stop that "unsettling", or falling feeling mid turn.
Hope this helps, and good luck!
Jimmy JimJim thank you going to try to keep it calm the next time i ride.
Hey make sure your tires are new. I was at the complete edge of grip on my ancient tires from 2008. I felt the bike want to low side and I thought I should push through but my body told me no. When I got new tires within a week I was knee dragging. Lol stupid me thank god I never crashed but I learned and I think others could learn from my experience too
Michael Rullis yup. The first thing im doing when the next season of riding starts here is to buy a new set of tires and possibly a set of tyre warmers. Starting out slow aiming to go fast.
Moi @Eagle. You need to check MotoVudu (Simon Crafar, eg-GP Rider and Ohlins race technician), and California Superbike School (Keith Code / Andy Ibbott) during the long Finnish off-season. Without the chance to put their lessons into practice, you won't make much progress, but there's plenty to think about before the 2020 track season. You have six good tracks to try in Finland, counting the new Kymi Ring. So I'd suggest the younger, more open, ones as safer places to start. Kart tracks are unlikely to be worth your time. Kemora, Botniaring, Alastaro, Ahvenisto, Motopark, hope those are spelled about right... The CSS three level syllabus is the only actual School though the books and video could be hard to adopt, the CSS Europe does still run some courses that might be possible for you.
Of course Dan has some great insights and presentation so I suggest you see all his videos too. Simon does instruct under his MotoVudu brand and has some great ex-champions to instruct in their home countries outside Andorra, where he is based. He does some great locations like Motorland Aragon in southern Spain. If you can get to the UK, we have many good and some great tracks, with hire track bikes a possibility for you and your dad to try. Silverstone is now the longest MotoGP track, with the best surface, and Yamaha track bikes for hire. Hei hei!
It’s the rear that continues a bike in a curve
Great video
For me, it was swapping from street rubber to race rubber. Felt like I had such a huge safety net to work with that I immediately was able to start dragging the knee when I had been too nervous to do so before.
Misspelt "practice" at the end of the video. There's no "s". Good advice all around though, as always.
Like Aaqib said
Wait what, he’s British? 😋
Trust fall test
As with all things, 'you get what you pay for'
I have trust issues with the road...
This is good: it will keep you alive.
Please stop reading my mind.... you are scaring me.... THANK YOU so much
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What does "supercharged " means in Kawasaki h2
🤜
"well maintained bike" yeah well that should be it.......
I trust my tyres, I don’t trust myself
Step 1: anything but shinkos
To ride motoGP style, you've gotta have their material
Riders do , but shouldn't concern themselves with chicken strips.. Bike needs to be really leaned low, lower than public streets would need. Also has to do with tire profile and psi. Imo to get that low on roads you'd need to stay sitting more upright even a bit to the opposing side of turn angle instead of sitting more off the bike into the lean as most would say that's how to keep maximum patch of rubber on rode, but realistically it the edges aren't being used enough to be leaving "chicken strips" it's highly likely you're not gonna be running out of traction then when not shifting body off the seat like pro racers do. Tires are much more capable of lean than riders give credit for. I'm proof bc I don't shift and make low enough leans with a thin edge of "chicken strip", based on not using brakes at Apex and maximum lean. Shifting into the lean would actually leave a wider strip in roads and only on tracks rubbing off the edges. Some will argue against that, but just really think about that logic of what I stated.
It’s tires not tyres
Lol I guess in one aspect this video did “not “ age well…because saying “you’re not Marc Marquez “in reference to saving oneself from a wipeout seems a lil bit like an oxymoron this year (so far) ….it should be “you don’t want to be like Marc Marquez”…..😂😜
I trust Tires not Tyres
Is this guy alive?
Practice.... you spelled it wrong lol
Practise is a verb in British English
Life at Lean good to know. At least I paid attention 😉
Life at Lean Great video by the way.
hmmm English guy that can spell in English...
Great video, thank you