Breaking Your Lean Angle Barrier on Track: Causes & Steps to Take
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- Опубліковано 13 чер 2024
- Learn how to break your motorcycle lean angle barrier on track. Find out here. For more advice and to pick up your FREE track riding Ebook, head here…
lifeatlean.com/free-guide-ess...
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In my experience, lean angle barriers are the most common barriers that motorcycle riders face on track, and the most difficult to crack too. But they are NOT uncrackable. In this video we take a look at many of the reasons behind fear of lean angle, as well as look at some practical steps to take to break through the barriers that fear causes.
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Lean angle's never been a problem for me.
Reached 90° several times already.
Lmao
Hope the stretcher had sliders...LMAO!
@Wall Cutter Lol. 90° lean angle means ... wait for it ... I CRASHED^^.
Learn to read between the lines before you go all Twilight Sparkle on people.
@Wall Cutter Wow, you can recite MotoGP documentaries AND reddit troll posts?
You're good. I forfeit.
is this normal
I bet one thing that holds many of us back is the desire to not wreck our nice bike. Getting your hands on a running bike you really don't care that much about and putting some time in at an empty parking lot can help a ton.
I agree having learnt riding on a brand new bike ,one of my major barrier is not to drop my precious bike..after 2 years of riding, yes I have not wrecked my bike but I've not improved at all and I'm getting frustrated...
But for that I would add conscious counter steering
Buy a cheap used 600 supersport.i got only one cbr 600rr bike has been in accident by previus owner and droped once from my side with 30 kph.i build it again and still ride it hard.Thats how life is maybe your brand new bike dont crash by lean angle but the next day an 80 year old will run your bike over.Just have fun with it while it lasts
I know they aren't exactly the same but this is why I'm converting my kx250f to supermoto and going to race SM as well as my cbr600rr. Dirt bikes are much cheaper and easier to work on than road bikes.
It took me long enough just to prep and paint my damn race fairings. Not looking forward to messing those up which is inevtiable because I'm a total noob to road bikes
Buy a cheap mini moto so you can experience high lean angles with less consequences if/when you lowside.
I had no problem with lean angle till I lost the front end and crashed. Getting the confidence back is difficult
Time and practice buddy. It'll come back for sure.
I'm with you. I was dragging knees, toes and foot pegs with terrible lines and body position for my first two track days. The race slicks stayed glued no matter how many things I did wrong. 3rd track day, Jennings, turn 9 i pushed my front tire and laid it down. Two years later, body position and lean angle are much better but my confidence in the tires remains a problem. These videos are very helpful.
@@CoreyLexell Having a similar issue on 8, just hard to trust them!
What happened? To much throttle.
@@robertwilary7142 A combination of shit tyres (OEMs) and a slippery surface
i dont fear lean, i fear crashing
Struggled and practiced a crazy amount to get body position, throttle and lean in control over the past 2 years...but never got the knee down. After getting the encouragement to push through the mental barrier of comfortable lean angle, I pressed the bike down more than usual, and ended up getting the knee down for the first time! Thanks!
I like motojitso videos where he has knee down at low speed in parking lots! Even elbow down. Lean angle does not mean fast I recently had a full on track looking Ninja rider with back hump knee pads awesome graphics like WSBK racer in front of me in the twisties knee down hanging off bike beautifully around each of the tight turns and hairpins ....only thing was he was holding me back in my bone stock ND miata
Do you press the handle bar in which direction you want harder to lean more ? Sometimes it feels like my bike doesn't wanna lean more...
I race professionaly and my team still says I need one or two more degrees of lean so UA-cam to the rescue
Something I would highly recommend is starting the leaning experience on a small bike, like a 50cc 2 stroke o a mini pit bike, the reason being you actually get to lean more without the fear of danger as you are very close to the ground and if you fall the speed is very low, it helped me a lot, hope it helps too.
I have to say this is a good way for smaller riders. A long time ago, I tried to ride a rc390 on track, but it was a disaster. I was 200lbs and 6'1 and a small bike just can't handle my weight.
@@boyangchen5586 because your experience was a disaster, has nothing to do with your size.
I'm 6foot 2 (185cm) and even the RC125 can handle my size and weight (180pounds) well on track. (buddy of mine has one and asked if I wanted to try it)
Sebastián Núñez Peña I agree x10!! My buddy has two CRF50’s and we spent a week chasing eachother around a 22 acre property and making up tracks, paved, dirt, and both. That helped my riding more than anything else
@@boyangchen5586 yeah true.. I can't stop dragging my knee on a pocket bike
indeed. maybe not that small but learning and pushing the limits on a smaller bike is crucial
years ago we would go and play on roundabouts - the downsides are 1) the Police eventually turn up 2) diesel spills are concentrated arround them.
So, after struggling to get my knee down for two years I made peace with the idea of the bike sliding out from under me, and just leaned until my knee touched down. It did, and it felt amazing! Of course good body position is key. A few months later I did slide out due to not allowing the tyres to warm up properly. No major damage to me or the bike. It’s all part of the learning, and I agree that the mental barrier is a massive one to break through. Riding a 2015 Aprilia Tuono RR.
ive got a 2019 tuono and havent been able to get my knee down yet, always could on my old gsxr but this is the first naked ive had, i havent yet worked out a good body position on the tuono, i keep hitting my toes on the floor but my knee feels ages away
Did u lie to the insurance comany saying it was on public roads sand in intersection or some shit? lol you dont need to answer this
one thing that helped me was turning the head further and looking inside the corner. Six months on crutches builds a huge psychological barrier. Great video
LOL I feel ya
What improved my speed and angle was several things, I purchased a smaller lightweight bike, to reduce expenses and started racing. I went form a 120 hp 750cc to a 42 hp 500cc. The 750 had a twitchy throttle that forced me to put to much thought into rolling on the throttle smooth, that it distracted me from improving corner entry. Plus the bigger bike could get me down the straights faster, thus masking my lack of corner speed. With the smaller bike I was doing the same lap times as the 750 within 3 days and kept improving just about every day. Being that I didn't have much pulling power on the straights I realized I couldn't sacrifice losing speed in the corners, braking and entry speed became more important ( plus the throttle was way tamer on the 500). The other is that as became more comfortable racing and wanting to pass and race, I became more desirous of speed, which kept coming in small increments. Thus the perception of speed totally changed. I improved my lap times by 20 sec. and was buying more knee pucks.
What 750 was it? I've got a K5 gixxer that I've lost the bottle since I've not ridden it for a few years and found slower corner snappy throttle bad for my confidence
Nice thing about so many modern motorcycle is you can effectively make them a lower performing motor simply by changing modes! Ny MT09 motor is like an MT07 in rain mode setting it makes it a dog at low throttle opening ....much like an R7/mt07. Problem is leaving it in that mode! As soon as you have people passing you? Have to click it back into fast bike mode ....lol I guess a smaller bike prevents that and gives one a built in excuse for riding slower
@@dougiequick1 oh-contrar it makes you improve skills in other areas like braking, corner speed and exit throttle application.
Being 68 years now, I've been racing Mono's and later a classic 1972 XS650 for 18 years. Till a few years ago I've always been slowish in corners. Indeed, because of the mental blockades this video describes. Most of the tracks where I raced were closed public roads. The pandemia forced me to start racing again at fixed tracks like Assen, Lausitz, Oschersleben and Mettet. During this period, somehow I managed to turn a switch in my head. Probably because I wanted to keep up with the other guys and the safer environment provided me the peace of mind. Suddenly my confidence in corners improved a lot and subsequently my lean angles and corner speed. Indeed, by watching the other riders and comparing them to pictures of my own lean angles.
Afterwards, at some of the public road tracks (lots of corners, shortish straights), I discovered that I was able to overtake much faster and more modern bikes with my 64 horsepower classic bike, like FZ750's, GSX-R's from the eighties. So, breaking down mental barriers certainly helps. The next step would be trying to slide the tires.
I'm 63 years old. I have been driving the same dam bike for 20 years, a 1999 Suzuki GSXR 750 SRAD. I LOVE to lean that bike as far as it will go. I love leaning so much that I have moved up to Pirelli SuperCorsa SP V2's for about 6 years now.
I KNOW that I can't get my money's worth out of these tires because the center wears before there even a dent in the sides .. I know that ..but MY GOD, once my tires are hot and it's a summer day, I will lean that bike over so far that there is NO chicken strips to be seen...the tire is roughed up right to the very edge ... and I can prove it, because everytime I put new SuperCorsa's on my bike, the first thing I do is scrape the NAME off the side of the tire ... hehe.
I just ordered Pirelli Diablo Rosso IV Corsa's today for the first time. I was told that because they have a harder center, I will get at least a whole season out of them and it's actually safer for me because the SuperCorsa's are never up to temperture on the street, but the Rosso's will be hot enough to give me great traction.
Some things I do to not crash ...I never brake hard into any turn, braking is done first. I always have the bike in top gear so that my roll on out of the turn will not be too extreme, causing loss of traction from the power. I always position myself first before actually leaning .. half an ass cheek on the edge of the seat, helmet out past the mirror, racing boots up on the balls of my foot so their don't touch down, and NO tight death grip on the bars ever, and look ahead at where you are going and let your peripheral vision take care of what is happening right in front of the bike.
I took a couple of MSF classes and the instructors would always show us that the motorcycle is capable of more lean than you think. To prove this they would jump on the least nimble bike in the class and lean it over on the range like it was a world superbike. When I ride i often think about that and remind myself the bike can do more than i think it can. For me i love racing and have always been a student of racing. The biggest crash factor is front brake in a corner and too much gas on the exit while leaned over, not the lean angle itself. The bike just needs to use all its available traction for lean. If you introduce accel or decel force at full lean, there is not enough traction left. This is when we see people crash. When riding the twisties i practice getting all my braking done before the corner and standing the bike up as early as possible on corner exit like dani pedrosa. This could help a lot of people. If you can't hold a high corner speed, then reduce the amount of time the bike is actually leaned over. There is always more than one way to ride a bike. For me there are 3 riding styles. High corner speed and lean angle (Jorge lorenzo), getting exreme weight shift to keep the bike upright in the corner for as much time as possible and get the bike stood back up as soon as possible (dani pedrosa), and backing the bike into the corner and sliding the rear to point you toward the exit (marq marquez). I like the 2nd option for me. But different strokes for different folks. Just never believe people who tell you there is only one way to do something.
I really don't know why you don't have more subscribers. Thank you for making these videos.
Combination of algorithmic insufficiency on UA-cam's part, and the fact that this maybe a somewhat niche type of video. Need to find a way to give this dude some money.
His content is not gimmicky and flashy with memes - and he delivers it like a professor, so unless you're deliberately seeking out this info, it's not "entertainment" enough to be appealing across the broader spectrum of riders. Just compare delivery of this content to someone like Yammie Noob or Cyclecruza - both extremely novice level riders that somehow garner massive followings despite them being beginners themselves.
@@fightingcarrot I agree
I just drug my knee on the pavement last weekend. I waited 13 frigging years for that to happen. Faith and balls my friends, faith and balls............Oh, and Dunlops. Lol
really? 13yrs? better late than never congrats
@@NY1075 Ive been riding sport bikes fast for 15 years and still never drug a knee
Once you get the knee down it’s the best moment
Took me 1.5 years but I crashed 10 times in the process
@@suronbru9568 took me 4 weeks and zero crashes haha
Learning to look further into the distance in the direction I want to travel, combined with extra speed helped me massively with getting the extra lean I was aiming for.
Use struggled with in on track; 2 corners in particular I knew I was loosing big because I wouldn't lean it more, no matter how much I told myself to do it. I went to a local parking lot that was large and empty and did drills at 20-30MPH to increase my lean angles; it took several hours but my body slowly got over it and I started leaning more and relaxing on the bars enough to make a huge difference.
I've been doing the same thing at a good lot by me. Set up cones in a circle and practice my turns and leaning the bike. Great to build confidence on the bike.
Just amazing advice - not only on track but for the road as well(without the 45 degree angles)
Day 2 with my first literbike, 33° lean angle both ways. Not too shabby!
Keep it bro! U're definitely doing a great job and helping most of newer riders!
One of your best videos. Great content that absolutely applies to every rider.
Wow, did I need this leaning lesson.
I have that 21° lean limit but I am probably not going to break thru it but rather slowly evolve into it. I'm old now and old habits change... slowly. lol begin edit: after another brilliant track day with Sportbike Track Time at Grattan raceway in Michigan I find myself getting better. I was no longer afraid of leaning a little bit more... and for me the biggest step was leaving the session when I began to feel any amount of pain or tiredness or an input error on my part. Slowly I am advancing, and to me... I feel safer going faster today.
It is becoming more and more clear...
I CAN do this.
Yeah, i found out the hard way, as you get older the pavement gets harder
I just want to say thanks a lot for this video, really help me to learn what my barrier is and how to overcome it.
Just found your channel yesterday and already fall in love with it.
So many knowledge I've found in your video.
Once again, thanks a lot.
You deserve more view on your video.
Dan...for once more...i can't thank you enough...I am at this point...trying to break this barrier and put my brand new knee slider that i bought yesterday on the asphalt...on a controlled way...lol.. Thanks for your awesome advices! Keep it up! Greetings from Greece...
Dragging knee doesn't mean much. I've won races without dragging knee once
@@nsant it means achievement and then he could decide weather he wants knee dragging anymore or not
@@m_zbrv3967 That's entirely correct. If you don't drag the knee, either your position is incorrect or you are not leaning enough. Kevin Schwanz won a world championship, but his style was abysmal. But he was a natural champion and that worked for him. The rest of us must rely on a proper technique, since we have not born with so much talent. By the way, see how down he could go with riding high and crossed motograndprix.motorionline.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/schwantz-defend-simoncelli.jpg
@@CarloPiana well that looks weird and natural at the same time thanks for sharing
@@m_zbrv3967 wrong. If all he is focusing on is getting a knee down, he will most likely be doing everything else incorrectly. This can be super dangerous. Focus on being smooth and consistent. Slow is smooth and smooth is fast. You'll eventually drag knee without even trying. Do NOT make it your goal whatsoever.
Sound advice as always Dan! Thanks for the great tips! I broke this barrier around a year ago and I couldn't agree more with putting things into perspective. Another thing I found useful is to go into the same corner using the same line, with 1-2% more intent...and getting more comfortable with higher entry speeds resulting in lower lean angles! The biggest barrier is usually the mind!
To me it was all about seating position. Once I locked in to the bike properly, I was able to hold the bars very lightly. That gave me the feeling whats going on with the front grip. If you hold tight you can't feel the signals and small vibrations... now I can feel my front tyre so I'm confident. This works with the trail braking too. Now I'm braking g in to the corner easily. I never crashed so far, I hope I won't loose this confidence...
Great timing w/ this video. I attended a riding class last week and doing nice sweeping turn I thought I'm almost knee dragin' , just to found out from the photos that I wasn't even close to that . Thanks again for a great videos
You deserve more subs, clear, precise and methodical explanations that make sense. Thank you!
My pleasure 😊
Best track skills channel!
This is the video I've been waiting for! Thanks a lot.
My pleasure, Jason 😊
Thank you so much for this video. I've struggle how to break my lean angle barrier for quite some time. With this, Im able to understand it more than ever. Thank you muuuuch
Fantastic video. Makes a lot of sense. Your style of delivery is clear and concise.
I feel exploring a bit more lean o the road, and the growth of confidence you can gain, has a lot to do with what tire you chose. Sport touring tires on my bike were slow and sluggish. Metzeler M9rr’s for instance were and continue to be inspirational.
Really enjoyed this informative and helpful video. Many thanks!
This was extremely helpful. Thank you.
Another great video dan. As a trackday rider aspiring to reach greater limits, this kind of information is invaluable and reassuring. I have been hitting a proverbial barrier in my cornering for some time now and its frustrating. I am, bit by little bit stretching the limits and have even had very brief touch downs with the knee sliders but i am still far from dragging knee corner to corner. But i will get there with practice, patience and top notch vids like this. Thanks again dan. Keep it up!
what size bike is it? sometimes riding a smaller bike helps, you lose out on speed on the straight and learn to get it back by keeping more speed through the turns. most of us mortals will hit personal limits before the limits of a 600cc bike.
Great video you just talked about what I tell people all the time..Awsome video thanks.
Great as always Dan!
Really love your work, cheers for that !
Good sound well explained advice. Thanks Dan.
I'm always impressed by your videos. Keep it up!
Thanks Adam 😊
Fantastic piece of information.
Thanks Dan. A few years ago a friend helped me knock over 20 seconds per lap off my Silverstone time, just from coaching me from the pits. He didn't even have his bike with him. Its all about confidence and that mental barrier. I keep telling myself that even when i am lapping as hard as i think i can, the bike just thinks its going to the shops!! Your videos help enormously.
My Aprilia RSV4 RF LE thinks my balls-out lap is just going to church.😇
God bless her💌
@@elliottgoldwyn4973 When I take my Ducati to church all the old ladies are asking me to for a ride on the back... Sometimes I'm glad I have no pillion seat 😂
Excellent video, I am struggling with this issue.
Another great video. Thanks!
A great video. Thanks.
Great video!
Really usefull, and very well explained.. Thanks !
Bernt Spiegel's book "The upper Half of the Motorcycle" is for me the most important theoretical work to drive a motorcycle safely and fast. The impact of this book on driving practice can not be overstated. Everyone - really everyone - motorcyclists should have read it.
Most of my riding is on the street and what's helped me to not be afraid of leaning my bike through a corner is having smooth inputs (especially on and off the brakes trailing into a turn) and really seeing and looking through a corner are what is key for me. All the gold and yellow suspension bits won't help much if your right hand is an on/off lightswitch and not a dimmer that works in one-point increments (Nick Ienatsch's video on 100 Points of Grip really explains this well). I ride a ZX6R and I'm always trying to see as much as I can around a corner and keep my head up which frees me up to think about my body positioning and know I can lean the bike over and move with it.
If I'm not overloaded with thoughts, I need to put some of this advice to use on my next track day! Another great video!
D-Fresh... Write down your thoughts, so you will remember them later...
Then, on your Track Days, pick just one or two per day, and work on those skills all day! As you make those changes into a new 'habit', you will then be able to Build on those to go to your next one or two challenges. Trying to do too many things at once will create a form of 'mental chaos' and it will be hard to determine if you are actually improving anything. Isolate a particular challenge, and once you have made improvements... it will continue to improve as you improve other challenges...
Duke 790 with Power RS tyres, amazing combo, im currently hitting the barrier that you mention and taking photos really helped a bit, seeing that i have plenty of room to go, working every day to feel more comfident and just making me a better safer rider
really good video and very helpful, thanks dude :)
Got the "my bike is SO cool I'm afraid" fear.
Then I hit 57yo, if anyone is gonna ride... It's me! But the way I'm doing it is not to stress over knee asphalt action, but rather staying smooth... and speed is coming smoothly!🎯
Video is a few years old now but great thing is it will always be relavent as physics don't change, Thanks for the vid.
Hi Dan, sorry if Im writing long posts. ..this lesson content is what is holding me back. Trusting tyres. I have dragged a peg or kickstand a dozen times which led me to believe I was over leaning but my chicken strips told me othewise I have a fingernails length (1/2 inch) left on the tyres some days.. It was corner #5 180 hairpin @ my track.. 20mph+ entry turn which leads into a 65 mph set up for turn 6. I LOW sided my first track day hairpinning but I got 62 laps on second track day with some really decent lap times.Track Record lap is 1:23. I have been running
1:45 to 1:55s but have low confidence ever since the lowside drop, I'm slowing down too much even thru the the ez high lean corners. I'm almost sure over grip on the handlebars and bad throttle control laid me down. I spun the tyre out during lean. Lucky no injuries, I'm fully armoured. Thanks for the great lesson. I run an 06 600cc Honda F4i with Dunlop sportmax Q3. I cannot afford tire warmers yet so my first 2 laps are lower speed. How do I know when my tyres are warmed up? Are tyre warmers necessary if I do 4 mile warm up on ametuer track days? I live in Colorado, USA . You have top notch lessons. Thank you... I have been working on lighter touch on the bars , holding correct leg and posture ( hanging off shifting weight smoothly) looking thru corners, and my throttle control has vastly improved. Im 58 years old been riding since 8 years old but this is my first 2 years on track riding. I love it. Im in excellent shape too. Leg weight workouts alot and bicycling for that muscle area. Thanks again for the lessons. You are the best. I like to study Shaky Shane Burn and Simon Crafer ...they seem really smooth riders. Wish I lived in the U.K. So many great riders and teachers over there.
Trying moto gymkhana can help get over the fear of deep lean angles. You don't need high speed to practice or get good at it.
What can also help is to use chalk marks on your tires. Make multiple chalk marks, going from sidewall to sidewall across the thread of both tires. Do some cornering, and stop and look at how much chalk is left on your tires.
You might find you had a lot more room to lean than you thought you would.
Im new to motogymkhana...and
I took a video of my practice run...and i see that im am doing the same lean angle with the local guys here that are doing 60kph at the curves on public highway...
i practice motogymkhana on a closed road space...
@@noobeta Are you saying that you're getting better or you saying that you're wondering why it seems other you lean the same angle as other riders but they are able to go faster through a turn than you can?
@@gregorylagrange both maybe...
@@noobeta Well there's more to a turn than lean angle. There's lane position when you set up for the turn. There's body position. Apexing earlier or later. And a few others including whether your lean angle is really the same.
How are you judging it's the same? Are you riding with them, going through the same turn?
@@gregorylagrange yes..when i follow them in the turn...
yes, so many things to learn...❤✌
about motogymkhana...here in PH i think its not gaining any popularity...because last 2016...some of the top riders from japan came here to introduce the sport...but no events have followed after they came...💔
I am riding for 3 months so far and I have to say your videos are helping me with the progress a lot! I keep the information in my mind and use it every time I ride my fz8. I still have 5 mm chicken strips on both sides tho but I feel I am making a steady progress! Thank you
Still riding? How are you feeling now?
@@DWCBOB hey, yes still riding. Did some trackdays which helped me with the lean barrier. I still keep coming back to these videos to check and correct my riding habits from time to time.
Did my first track day last week and I felt all these.
I still have a bout a 10-15mm "chicken strip" on my tire. I wanted to get rid of it but I wasn't able to lean the bike over enough.
Cheers for the video. Gives me food to thought.
appreciate the tips, i just got some leather/textile pants with pucks and im excited to use them
One thing I never considered as a daily commuter (Not a track rider) is i totally overlooked suspension and curb weight
I had an MT09 that for the life of me would forever stand itself up in corners, even after having the suspension setup- turns out that the suspension is just notoriously bad for anyone that isnt a 5" skinny dude- since moving to a different bike (Ninja 1000SX) the thing is SO much more planted- and I can properly hang off the edge of the bike as very low speeds due to the gyroscopic anatomy of the engine as well as its 230kg weight keeping it locked in that position- its amazing
Once you got into evolutionary psychology I was blown away. Great video
Great vid...thanks
This is great information. Well done. At our school we talk about a lot about the concept that lean angle = risk but obviously a necessity to navigating a corner. We teach that knee on the ground on track is a good gauge for when your approaching the limits of traction assuming proper body position. We also teach touching a knee at the slowest point of most corners when you’ve finished trail braking and just before throttle roll on as you reduce lean and see your exit. Is there more traction available past a knee down moment? That depends on a lot of factors but for students looking to improve the feeling of your knee touching is an invaluable tool to build confidence and creep up on traction limits versus abruptly going over them. Keep up the good work!
Thanks very much for the kind comments. I'm not sure if this is the other chap from your school, but I'll say again I really like what you guys do out there.
@@LifeatLean same chap ;-), thanks for the support of our program. mutual admiration society never hurts our sport!
Having done the 3 day course back when the YCRS was at Miller, I cannot emphasize how much the street riders that had never been on the track improved! I was one of the track day guys, so used to knee down, but the track newbies improved so much many could be riding intermediate level track day sessions after graduating from YCRS. They set up the bike for you, give you excellent machinery, and have a very low student to teacher ratio. Me and another guy had Scott Russell to our selves for an entire day! If you want to improve your riding and street safety, please do yourself a favour and take this school. It was not cheap back then, so not sure about it now, but worth every penny.
@@marcot3013 Thanks for sharing! Our price has not changed much($2200), the value however has increased as we perpetually innovate and refine. We also created ChampGrad on day two of the school for grads like you who want a one day 3:1 semi-private with tons of riding and video review ($1200). On the first day we introduced ChampDay ($600) one day and hits on most the curriculum. Thanks again!
Glad I saw this video. My issue is trusting the tire
Great stuff here!! I’ve always trusted my 2018 636, but was unsure about tires. But after watching a Bridgestone video on their new Battlax S22 and hearing them say the weren’t much different than the S20’s a I have on my Kawi, got me thinking. Now I still have barriers but tires isn’t one of them.
Could not agree more. I basically did the same thing. Took my bike to the biggest, smoothest, safest corner, and kept increasing speed and simultaneously lean angle to accommpdate. Could mot believe how rather easy it was. While my check brain light was flashing, I could not stop laughing in my helmet in absolute disbelief. Same corner, but 20kmh faster than usual. No stress from the bike at all. Chicken strips completely gone...
The corner you highlighted is Snetterton I think - the plane where I came closest to knee down! Didn't quite manage but scraped a toe so I wasn't hanging off enough. Love that corner though!
I have a weird thing that for some reason I can lean the bike over really far on right hand corners but on left hand ones I can't. Sort of like trying to write with your other hand, it's not fear, I just cant do it as well.
ha ha, i am left biased
I’m the other way around, my local track has WAY more left turns. My left knee slider looks destroyed and my right only has a few little scrapes.
Right never feels great for me, I probably just need more practice/ or body position not correct when I turn right...
happens the same thing to me, but i can lean more to the right that to the left
Same here. I think it’s because I’m not worried about things that aren’t moving like the landscape, but cars that might be coming around the corner over the line scare me; basically all blind lefts
Thank you
This video really motivated me. Went out tonight when it cooled down and concentrated on dropping my shoulder. Instantly improved my comfort , speed and lean angle. 👍 thanks Dan.
Great :) i was always wondering how to prevent and solve loosing of front end, could this be in another episode?
To clarify, one should never be coasting in the corner, you are either on the brakes (trail braking), at constant throttle, or accelerating. One thing that is often not talked about is that one should never ever let off the brakes quickly if the front end is heavily loaded. That will upset the suspension. If you let go of the brakes quickly at lean angle, you will reduce the available traction on the front tire as the front suspension unloads, and this can very well cause a lowside. If in that predicament, you need to keep on the brakes while reducing brake pressure as lean increases..... once you feel it is ok to get back on the throttle, then you do so. In other words, there is no magical exact spot of when to get off the brakes and back on throttle (even if it is constant throttle)... the answer of when to get off the brakes and on the gas is when you are comfortable with it. I would strongly suggest the Yamaha Champions School. I did it after doing various schools and numerous trackdays. What surprised me the most was the progression of street riders that had never been to the track before. It is not cheap, but you will learn more in 2 or 3 days of schooling than you will in a lifetime of street riding. If you can splurge for a 3 day course do that.
Dunning Kreuger Effect
Thanks for another great video. After being off of bikes for almost 2 years your videos have really helped me push past my mental barriers and understand what the bike is doing as well as myself.
I feel like its cheating but my bike has a lean angle indicator which has really helped my understand how much more available lean I have. Started in the mid 30s at the beginning of the season and now on my favorite corners I am able to comfortably get down to the upper 40s. Thanks again for all the great instruction and videos.
You are my hero
I used to do laps at The Snake on Mulholland.
Once I memorized the turns so I didn't have to try to guess or remember what turn was net.
This allowed my mind to focus on other things like body position, line, throttle control, braking points, etc.
I would go into them a bit quicker every time.
There were two corners where I could get my knee down consistently before they closed it.
I don't like leaning too much or roads I don't know too well.
I think choice of bike can help greatly. I had a few good sport bikes that I used to take to the track but never seemed to get close to getting a knee down (RZ350, FZ750, FZR1000). In 1990 I bought an ex raced RGV250L to go club racing.
First day on the track got my knee down on my favourite corner after about an hour, by end of day I was knee down on every corner.
By my second track day I had to change my foot positioning on the pegs, pulling back my boot so that my toes were on the pegs to stop my boots being worn away on the toes.
The amount of confidence I gained after that first knee down was enormous, I felt like not only did I know exactly how far I was leaning but that if I fell off, I did not have far to fall.
I am still not at the point of knee-dragging -- primarily due to some physical limits I have from some permanent injuries -- but I have some Street routes near my home that I have found to be Excellent Practice points for increasing my tire confidence and adding more lean angle as I add small increments of higher speed. Each of them are slightly downhill or uphill -- giving me additional practice with the effects of elevation change -- and one of them is a 'cloverleaf' Interstate junction. The curves are long enough that, as I have become more and more 'familiar', I am getting well-practiced at even practicing making Changes in the midst of the curve! Small steering changes around an imaginary piece of debris, or 'moving' the apex, or simply changing my line thru the arch... or Braking!
Learning these skills at a deeper level has changed my riding a LOT as I hit the challenges of serious mountain road rides!
And it is FUN!! And adds to the enjoyment of some of my 'mundane errands'...
I can't move my bottom from side-to-side but a small amount, and both knees are artificial, as well as my rt hip and femur, so I don't make any efforts to 'drag them on the ground'... but I am 'beveling my foot-pegs' (with the 'feelers' removed) and making a few sparks!
Beautiful
How absolutely flipping interesting, especially the natural lean we do as humans and not wanting to push past, I really struggle because I have a nice bike so obviously don't want to crash but also I feel could enjoy riding more, it's got to the stage it's actually getting me down a little and I'm putting off riding, this really explains alot 👌👍🙂
Excellent video, very informative. I’m having difficulty with this with my crf supermoto. I have Michelin Pilot 4 R’s and I know how good these are (I’m a tyre fitter) but it’s the natural lean angle im battling with, I know it’s super sport you’re covering in the video and lean styles are very different but it’s the confidence in the bike and Tyres that is my problem that you covered. Liked and subbed
Last time on the race track I was training to lean the bike more.. what scared the shit out of me is when suddenly my foot pegs touched the ground and caused the bike to wobble while at lean and mid corner. I ride a naked bike and realise it's not a perfect bike to train this sort of stuff but now I need to overcome the fear of losing stability while scratching pegs.
You should try using aftermarket rear sets and set them higher. Also make sure your body position is correct. Good body position should give you plenty of speed in corners without scraping peg. More lean angle doesn’t always mean more corner speed. Speed should always trump lean angle in priorities.
I also scratched pegs very often on my naked on track days. Changed them with superbike style witch are shorter and the problem is gone. Now when I lean too much I still slightly scratch the peg, but now is reminder that rear tire is at end.
Scraped my gs500e's footpegs, still learning to lean more on a gsxr750 now
Great vid.
Really like the series. Thank you for the effort.
Tips that worked for me.
1. Learn on a track not the road.
Tuition on track costs a bit more but you will learn more in three days of track tuition than years of road riding.
2. Learn with a lighter bike.
A 600 with a little over 110hp is a great weight and power when you are learning.
3. Brake to set up your corner entry speed.
On track when you are learning - braking is about setting corner speed, rather than seeing how late, short or hard you can make your braking.
4. To lean further just steadily increase the pressure on the inside bar. Be sure to increase the pressure away from your body (parallel to the road) rather than down through the bars.
5. Increase lean only with a closed throttle.
A common track day crash is peeps attempting to get their knee down on long corners with simultaneous increases of lean and throttle.
Thanks again!
To reduce risk I like to reduce lean angle. I have a leanometer and like to use it to take the same turn at higher and higher speeds with less lean angle and better body position. With Angel Gt's I have no problem with 37 deg. with well heated tires at recommended pressures on dry pavement and have posted a few 40's with no slip at just under triple digits. This kinda grandpa's limit and no where close to rubbing anything and still leaves a 1/4" unused portion of a 200 rear tire on ZX14R. Great video my only advice is take your time and work up to what you think is your max lean and don't just lean more because you saw someone else do it. The correct lean for any turn is very dynamic and only comes with experience and practice. I'm still learning after 40 years of leaning...lol
Fear of leaning for me was alleviated when I went to race tires and had a steeper profile... With Diablo Rosso Cora's I'd run out of contact patch and that limited the lean angle... When I switched to Diablo Superbike on the same bike, the same lean angle still had chicken strips and didn't feel like it was getting loose as you lean off the tread... Once I had more tire to out down my confidence to lean more suddenly came back as the tire wasn't wallowing and sliding..
Then I ended up having to raise and shorten my pegs and foot controls for clearance... And is still the limiting factor and still being clearanced a bit at a time... Lol
Now I just keep working on Marquez style body positioning and braking improvements lol
Ho hum... just another great vid from Dan! As a 50 year old newbie, I cannot thank you enough for these and this one in particular! Just did my first track day and tried to focus on being smooth, maintaining proper body position, etc. Throughout the day, it really felt as though I was "leaned over" coming out of a sweeping corner and onto the back straight. Wife and daughter took several vids and it was shocking to watch. Perception was, indeed, different than reality... lol.
Wish there was a way to access a lean angle stabilizer for the bike to get a feel for it!
Tell your wife to lean the camera....you know like the 60's batman series
@@dardobartoli Oh, man! Classic solution! Lol!
Keith Code said that if you can have different leaning ability left or right. I did. It can be caused by crashing on that side. I definitely feel more comfortable with left turns.
Leantastic, cheers
I was not riding a super track-focused bike (my dad's old auction 00 bandit12). just puttering around on my local twistys under 40 mph. I knew, probably wrongly, that the bike wasn't going to slide unless I stopped it from leaning. then just decided to go barreling into a corner, no brakes, super scared, clenched ass cheeks. and then the side of my boot scraped a little which gave me a fright. rolled out of the corner with my heart pounding in my thought. i made it, then I knew I had just made progress
After practicing a lot, I can actually feel when the back tire is on or near the edge. I don't know how to explain it, but it feels like it hits a point where it resists more lean and feels like you hit a flat spot. It's very obvious once you experience it a few times.
I remember going from cheap to expensive tires and the biggest thing I noticed was the predictability. As cheap tires almost seemed to grip more but when they lost traction it was unpredictable and regaining that traction was difficult. Whereas the new expensive tires I think they were some sort of pilot 2ct, but they broke traction much more frequently however nearly at the exact same imput and the loss off traction was recoverable.
Can u do a video on how to steer while tucked in
Took for a number of years before I was able to get the knee down. Of course there's fear but there's also several key things I needed to learn and do before even getting the knee down. Practice of good proper body position will get you to that point.
Random video request... Can you please do a full lap tutorial on what you do and when? I was on track Monday and found myself thinking "that doesn't feel right". I feel like watching a step by step lap would be perfect.
The thing I found I was doing wrong was coming down the straight, braking hard and letting off the brakes, then moving my body position to hang off, then tipping into the corner.
I drag my knee toes almost elbow now but I’m riding at maximum lean angle needing to drop my head and stand the bike up driving out of the corner. My pirelli tires are very capable up to temperature and proper pressure trail braking helps load the front tire entering the corner so I’m working at trailing every corner.
great video, i hope there will be more on this subject. there is another great danger i think people are not aware or dont know it. i have this exact problem. cannot get pass this 20ish degree angle.. by trying more and more of passing this barrier, the front tyre gets big edge between the used patch and the chicken strip. and this is dangerous, because the change while riding on the used patch and then using the unused one on the chicken strip is big and the front tyre slips because of the difference of the angle of tyre. when i ride i think im leaning like rossi and think what a great driver i am. but when i look at the photos i start crying into the palms of my hands.
Dan thanks for the advice I am struggling really really hard with this one. It is really hard to get away from the safe zone lol.
It definitely is, Eric. But it's the same for the majority of riders.
I took it off John Robinson’s book, Motorcycle Tuning Chassis second edition under the section of contact area in tyres.
Perhaps maybe you could do a video why wider tyres need more lean angle to turn and narrow tyres use less. And how how centrifugal force is actually needed to turn with the same bike but different width tyres. Perhaps you can mention why did MotoGP used 16.5 wheels and why some asian drag bikes used bicycle sized wheels on their drag bikes.
Thank you in advance
Great vid, cheers bro. A quibk one, can one lean so far on a dirt bike -with knobbies - as on a sportbike?
I started banking on my bike and had a major crash once. after that crash, fixed the bike and recovered, I was finally able to lean even lower. I'm no marc marquez but its way lower than when I first started. my boots even shows how low my angle is going