Penn Jillette: Don't Leave Atheists Out on Christmas

[@thomaschavers]

Penn, I am Christian, but I would welcome to you into my home on December 25th if you had no one to spend the day with. We could watch movies, tell jokes, eat some good food, and talk about our hobbies, interests, and have intellectual conversations. You can celebrate the day however you want. You have the freedom to do so and I think that is something that makes this country, of ours, so wonderful. I might not agree with you on certain things, but I think you are an intellectual person and I do respect you.

[@fallen4life080]

Nice! i tell the same thing to christians online all the time. Born and raised in Catholic Spain i grew up withour a father or siblings and my faith was a huge part of my life. I eventually just stopped believing by the time i was 20 and can never see myself believing in god any more than i can believe in Quetzalcoatl however thats literally the only difference between me and people of faith; a belief in god. I still try to be the best person i can be :)

[@dickhitswater7486]

Hoorah! Im an atheist. I say merry christmas because i see it as nothing more than a seasonal salutation. I also think its petty to get upset about. I also say it because i dont like anyone trying to tell me what i can and cannot say.

[@RoyceDavis]

Wow, this is the best Christian response to this video I could have ever expected to see here. Good for you, I wish more theists were like you!

[@unknownservers3420]

@@dickhitswater7486 say the N word :)

[@JazneoGaming]

You don't need Religion to Spend time with your family day on Holiday it just like Thanksgiving but with Gifts

[@j.oaklley8965]

It is about Jesus not gifts. Jesus or hell.

[@punisher6387]

@@j.oaklley8965 jesus doesnt exist he is man made just like every god 😆

[@minniesweetgreen]

I am proud to be a Christian and I have no problem saying Happy Holdiays instead of Merry Christmas. I have said Merry Christmas to strangers but out of habit. Not out of a desire to offend anyone. Personally, I do think it's a little weird that either party gets upset about it.

[@greendogg83]

I agree, I'm not religious at all, and for me christmas is all about treating and spending time with your loved ones, and showing goodwill towards all others.

[@NottJoeyOfficial]

I do agree, I could be considered an Atheist, and I sometimes say Happy Holidays, but out of habit most of the time I say Merry Christmas. I do understand saying Happy Holidays though.

[@thomaschavers]

+minniesweetgreen Agree. I don't think it matters if someone says Happy Winter Solstice, Merry Christmas, Happy Kwanzaa, Happy Holidays, or Happy Chanukah. I think it's all about the spirit in which it is said. If someone said any of these to me, I would say the same thing back to them whether I share their beliefs or not.

[@TaylorWilliamsP]

As a Christian, I love this video. Thank you for contributing to a civilized conversation.

[@smoothdelgato]

Penn is probably the athiest I have the most respect for because to me he seems like he is truly just expressing his views and not trying to bully others into becoming an athiest. I think in this video he is getting something wrong. When I say "Merry Christmas", I am not saying that to just Christians, I am saying it to everybody. Others can take it as "Happy Holidays" or "Seasons Greetings", it is just what I have become accustomed to. If someone said, "Happy Hanuka", I would not feel left out, I would feel included because I think they are saying that to everyone in the same sense I am saying "Merry Christmas" to everyone. By saying he would love to take the Christ of of Christmas to me is hypocritical. What I got from this video is that he doesn't want people to not want to say Happy Holidays, yet he doesn't want people to say Merry Christmas. Like I said, I like the guy it's just I think he is a bit confused on the meaning of Merry Christmas.

[@sandwichbreath0]

He wasn't talking about people saying Merry Christmas being a problem, he was talking about the Christians that are now getting angry at people who say Happy Holidays instead. His argument here is why can't both be fine, why do they have to turn the second into an attack on religion when it's really just an attempt to include more people in peace and love? The title of this video is a bit misleading. And as for taking the 'Christ' out of Christmas, he means he'd rather religious doctrine be present at all, but he is realistic and respects your right to believe it. You need to pay a little more attention to his words, no offence -- I think you've heard attacks where there were none.

[@goovinguy8596]

I'm atheist and I say Merry Christmas. It just sounds more jolly and I still celebrate Christmas and will probably celebrate it with my kids. Just because I don't believe in something doesn't mean I can't celebrate and enjoy the good stuff like the Christian inspired art, the holidays and this great country that was started by Christians 🇺🇸. I might not agree with y'all at all but I will fight to the death to defend your right to express, believe and have freedom of speech... As long as you don't infringe on other's rights though then we'll be having problems...

[@Its__Good]

Out of interest - do you also disagree with Christians 'bullying' people into being Christian?

[@stevesmith291]

Christmas is a legal holiday, therefore in addition to whatever religious significance it has, it is also a secular holiday. The traditions are a combination of Christian, pagan, and a lot of modernist, secular stuff.

[@AlexanderGailson]

I remember when I was younger, my friend's parents invited me and my family to celebrate Hanukkah with them. We had fun sharing in the festivities with them and it's still a precious memory. When Christmas came around, we invited them and had a great time. I believe that holidays like these are meant to bring people together and to be shared. At the same time, I understand, however, that because I am not Jewish I cannot actually celebrate Hanukkah. But I CAN be a part of it's celebration. :)

[@brandynhenry7107]

wow, just wow, someone actually understands. From the other end of the spectrum being a devout Christian, it has been secular my whole lifetime, attacking Christmas just seems like a needless shot that accomplishes nothing except to further homogenize this very diverse country of ours, when I thought we were striving for the opposite.

[@americanliberal09]

If you don't like christmas......then don't celebrate it, problem solved.
Nobody is forcing anybody to celebrate it. >.>

[@hamoudy41]

Christians do not own the holiday season. They actually stole it from the Pagans, they changed the name from Yule to Christmas, The secular people also will change the name to something else, it is just a matter of time, Yule to Christmas happened in 1500s during Luther and the name will change at some point as more people become secular and less religious, it is a matter of time, these controversial discussions are just slowing the timing but it is bound to happen at some point.

[@americanliberal09]

@@hamoudy41 But christmas by itself is already secular. But i think that it's okay for people to say "happy holidays", because it's just a holiday slogan that does absolutely nothing.

[@hamoudy41]

@@americanliberal09 So why people get offended by saying Happy holidays?

[@americanliberal09]

@@hamoudy41 Because it's usually the right wing crowd that thinks that saying "happy holidays" is act of political correctness.

[@americanliberal09]

@Condom Arms Not really, though. I usually don't think there's any shred of evidence that people are being forced to say "happy holidays", because people just wanna say it due to their own personal choice.

[@aj19bcx]

nothing wrong with taking christ out of something he wasn't in to begin with

[@micahhenley589]

CHRISTmas. If Jesus(God) never came into the world to save sinners there would be no Christmas.

[@mosescalkins3609]

@@micahhenley589 Christmas started out as a pagan holiday. Jeusus' birthday was mid summer the holiday was adapted by the catholic church when the roman empire became Christian they adapted their saturnalia celebration to fit the holiday

[@EiferBrennan]

@@micahhenley589 Christmas started as Saturnalia and Yule, thus Yuletide.

[@micahhenley589]

@@EiferBrennan Christmas is a celebration of the fact that the everlasting God came to this sinful world. But why did He come? Luke 19:10 has the answer: "For the Son of Man came to seek and save those who are lost.”

[@healthyhomesoflubbock3985]

@@micahhenley589 next time you have a thought just let it go

[@MichaelannDahlman]

I remember I was Christmas shopping with my kids at Woolworth's over 25 years ago & some women at the bus stop told me I shouldn't even be celebrating Christmas, since I was not a Christian. Now, I have never met this woman before & I have no idea how she thought she could determine that I was not a Christian, at a glance. It lead to a very interesting conversation on the way home with my sons, about religious fanaticism & mental illness. A very weird situation.

[@picklesandcheese25]

Greensboro?

[@MichaelannDahlman]

No, there was a Woolworth is Vancouver, BC Canada, until 1993.

[@raywhite3161]

I'm a Christian and I don't celebrate Christmas. It honestly has nothing to do with Jesus Christ. It's no where found in the Bible to observe it, so I don't, simple. It's another Holiday for the people, by the people. Which is why I think it's fine for anyone of any belief or non-belief to observe it because its purely traditional. It's complete commercialism.

[@raywhite3161]

***** That's about it. I've researched heavily. I like to know why I'm doing something. You know. One of my friends originally from Russia told me a more gory side to the holiday. It's surprising.

[@Varone26]

Penn seems like a jolly guy. That to me is a man full of Christmas spirit.

[@Vic2point0]

"I think seeing other people in a seasonal joy - how can that be seen as an attack?"
I haven't met a single Christian who thinks we atheists shouldn't be joyful at Christmastime...
"Why is it considered an attack to say 'Holidays'"
Well what they originally considered an attack on Christmas was the banning of Christmas related expressions and/or decor in public schools, if not other public places. That quite literally was anti-Christmas. But now, I wouldn't say "Happy Holidays" is an attack on Christmas. Still, I always wondered of all the holidays in the year, do we feel the need to say "Happy Holidays" for Christmas? We don't say it in May or October, do we? I can understand "Happy Hanukkah" because you are still acknowledging what time of year it is; it doesn't seem like you're in some kind of denial based on hypersensitivity.
No, saying "Merry Christmas" isn't excluding anyone. It's INCLUDING EVERYONE. It would only be excluding someone if a person DIDN'T give a greeting to everyone they came across. And some of our fellow atheists DON'T want Christians to have their joy. That's why one of "our" organizations put up a billboard stating that no one needed "Christ" (that is to say, no one needed the religious aspects) in Christmas. And the reason this is anti-joy is because most of us are just trying to enjoy the holiday for what it is and not bicker over religious differences. Any seemingly antagonistic message is going to get in the way of that joy.
"Why can't you just say 'It's a beautiful season, we all love each other, let's all have a nice time'?"
Uhh, because "Merry Christmas" is much shorter and time specific? Because we don't just say "It's a beautiful season" for any other season with holidays in it? Because there's absolutely nothing wrong with saying "Merry Christmas" to someone who happens to not believe in a god or in the Christian God. Just as there's absolutely nothing wrong with giving any other holiday greeting that people may not celebrate.
Also, atheists do that whole "Throw everyone in the same group" thing too. Organizations such as the Freedom From Religion Foundation and American Atheists claim to represent atheists, agnostics, secularists, humanists, "reasonable people", etc. (when really, they only represent anti-theists, in my book).
Christmas is already bigger than Christianity, and most Christians don't seem to have a problem with atheists celebrating it any way they choose. And I don't think that Christians in general have hesitated to welcome us into their stores and homes. I think you're either speaking of their most nutty minority (who are intolerant of atheism) excluding all atheists, or you're speaking of Christians who (understandably) exclude OUR most nutty minority (who are intolerant of theism/Christianity).

[@michaeledwards2962]

Why view the ban of specific slogans such as Merry Christmas as "Anti-Christmas" instead of "Pro-diversity"? Why does everything have to be against something, instead of for something else?(Not specifically Christmas or Christian belief, but general)

[@Vic2point0]

Michael Edwards Because if we took this and applied it all year-round, we'd never give a holiday greeting again. No "Happy Halloween" because some people think it's of the devil and that you have to be a Wiccan or at least believe in people rising from the dead every year to celebrate it. No "Happy Valentine's Day" because it wouldn't be fair to just *assume* whoever you're greeting had a date when they very well might be single!
I don't see "Merry Christmas" in conflict with diversity to begin with. This is a national holiday that practically everyone celebrates (or at least is *free* to celebrate), and people who say it are clearly only giving a greeting. It's a time-specific "Hello", no less so than "Good morning" or "Good evening". We're talking about changing language because a minority of people have decided they see something in it that was never there. Even when I was a Christian, I wouldn't have hesitated to tell someone "Happy Hanukkah" back if they had given that greeting to me, no less than I have in the past replied "You too!" to someone who wished me a happy Fourth of July (despite the fact that I had no plans to celebrate it that year). I just think it all boils down to hypersensitivity or, ironically, an intolerance of religious differences.
No, I don't want to 1984 any of my favorite holidays, thank you.

[@michaeledwards2962]

So you'd rather have it your way than have a perfectly diverse nation?

[@Vic2point0]

Michael Edwards That's, not any part of what I said. Try addressing something that is actually part of my argument.
P.S. - I answered that question already, when I said "I don't see 'Merry Christmas' in conflict with diversity to begin with" and explained why.

[@michaeledwards2962]

Terms like Good. Morning and Good Night do not devalue someone's beliefs...not that I think it's the intention when you say it to someone....but others do because this world is full of morons. Honestly, I find it more progressive to do the least possible to piss off the general population(if even possible) than to say "it's going to anyway so why not just let me do it." I have no problem with Merry Christmas, but it does indicate truth of your religion... Imagine if someone said Happy Hanukkah to you... It might not offend you...but you'd think "Why would they tell me something I do not believe in?"

[@SLCMusik]

Merry Christmas!

[@proudargie]

As an agnostic I feel Christmas as a universal symbol of Love, Peace and Hope. Those values lead to human brotherhood. Every person -religious or not- should aim to it.

[@skunkjee]

It started as an inner joke between Penn in his youth and his mother, when she said "Make sure your hands look good on stage". He polished all his nails for that show but he kept polishing that one finger red for every performance since then.

[@FUNSTUF456]

why does penn have one finger nail painted on his right hand?

[@FUNSTUF456]

hawklord2001 Okay. thanks! I wasn't aware!

[@Mii.2.0]

@@FUNSTUF456 Looks like the comment is deleted...

[@ozskipper]

Why the hell do I have to listen to Christmas songs for six weeks a year whenever I go shopping? I am an atheist, when I go shopping I dont want to hear about songs babies in mangers. We arent forced to listen to muslim or jewish songs.

[@Lem0nsquid]

well if you refer to hearing it in private businesses then thats your own problem. I dont think they play Christmas music in government buildings, or at least iv never heard any before. As an atheist I love Christmas and the music to follows along, Christmas is that time of year people are generally nice and I take part in it too

[@ozskipper]

Lem0nsquid Dont get me wrong. I dont dislike the santa songs. Its the "away in a manger" and jesus based songs that are basically forcing their beliefs onto others.

[@LucisFerre1]

Oh quite whining.

[@FUNSTUF456]

ozskipper I don't understand why people are always going back to the whole "forcing" beliefs argument. Every day we see advertisements and each one of those adds is forcing it's belief that we should purchase the product they're promoting. And yes, this does piss us off because we don't give a shit about what ever it is that's being promoted but then all we do is maybe state that or just think it and move on with our lives why can't we just do the same with Christianity?

[@ozskipper]

RAMSEY Because Religion is different to a coke ad. A coke add wont discriminate against gays for instance. A coke ad wont try to impose its values on other people. There is a huge difference between product advertising and a month of jesus songs in every supermarket in the country. Jesus songs are about a religion. They are about the myth of Jesus and the traditions that go with that. Would you be happy to be forced to listen to a month of some other religions songs whenever you did your groceries?

[@dschwamm]

You're not fooling anybody, Penn Jillette! Everybody knows that you're actually Santa Claus.

[@skilfulCOM]

I am not religious (I'm agnostic) - but if I saw you and said, "Merry Christmas Penn" - it is not an attack on your atheism.
Nor is it an attack if I were to say it to a person of other religion.
It is simply a greeting for that particular time.
Stop being so bloody politically correct.

[@vyse102]

It's really disappointing to see atheists attacking theists on here. Surely by doing so you're demonstrating the exact thing you're railing against?
I'm an atheist myself. I realize it's hard to make a transition from theist to atheist - you start off with a lot of anger at being fed what you perceive as nonsense. There aren't a lot of good atheist role models that promote peaceful coexistence while maintaining intellectual integrity and defending reason and logic. But at some point you have to be held accountable for your actions, and if you can't treat others with respect while still dissenting with them you lose your moral high ground and become just as bad as militant theists.

[@hybridtiger3328]

I agree but thiests are also attacking atheists can both sides take a chill pill and just enjoy the holidays

[@thomaschavers]

+Ryan Annis I wish their were more atheists like you!

[@johnvines4875]

I'm an atheist, I don't celebrate Christmas. some muslims for example will insult you if you say merry christmas to them, they think it's an insult to god.

[@cythixx]

Christmas isn't even related to religion, God or Jesus. It was around way before religions came into the picture. Religions just stole it, bunch of thieves and liars.

[@LeZemyr]

Sure, some people will get offended. I'm an atheist, but I will say it back if they say it to me out of common courtesy. I'd rather make someone smile for a split second than leave them in a bad mood.

[@AmericanPoliceState]

Eduardo Saldana Unfortunately some atheists would rather proverbially piss in someones cheerios than give them the satisfaction.

[@sturlathordarson4710]

AmericanPoliceState How nice to see how loving you are. Not.

[@is_it_nathan]

cythixx Religions stole it from other religions. It started as a pagan tradition to my knowledge.

[@LucisFerre1]

Penn is naive in a lot of ways. Chritmas is already an American holiday and a world wide holiday, because there's a secular christmas and a religious christmas. Secular christmas is Santa, flying sleds and elves. Religeous christmas is Jesus' birthday that even the catholics know is at the wrong time of the year, and the nativity scene that is an inacurrate depiction of the gospel acccounts. Christmas is Christ-Mass, when the catholics *EAT* Jesus and drink his blood. Secular christmas has been banned both in America and Britian at one time or another. So it's really not a matter of the Christians deciding to give it a bit of a rest. It's just fox news and their crew showing, yet again, their religious bigotry towards others. That's something they tend to make clear about every 4 months or so.
yours,
Lucifer

[@jkhall9665]

It's no differant than 4th of july. A celebration of family and love. I never knew anything about religion till i left home at 18. It was overwhelming. So many all arguing over who's the chosen people. All are the chosen one. All are fools chasing a paper moon.

[@OEMPlus]

"I would love to take the christ out of christmas"
all you had to say was that, penn. I appreciate your honesty but thats like saying I want to take the penn out of penn jillette.

[@abcsorensen]

It seems He may have been born on Sukkot. He was certainly killed on Passover. There are long held traditions to celebrate those times. "Christmas" traditions can be traced back to a variety of pagan celebrations. So if you're reading the scriptures then you too would want to take Christ out of Christmas.

[@MamaDukes2012]

Eric Sorensen Right, since Yeshua was a Jewish rabbi.

[@pop9095]

That would be accurate if Penn were some kind of anchor to Jillette, caused the whole to be lesser with him included.

[@joel5090]

Completely incorrect. 'Mass' a grouping of people. The majority of the Christian world have very little (if any) focus on religion. It's about family coming together to appreciate each other. So why not call it 'mass'? I think we can agree that Jesus existed. Why not. Though to proclaim he has an active role in human life is ludicrous. Right now I kicked a chair over. Did Jesus make me do it? Or did I just kick a chair over? Was it his plan that I dispute his impact, or lack there of? The debate that religion inbreeds morale compass is stupid btw. I spent the first 9 years atheist, went to a catholic school for 4 years, believed in Jesus for 2. It's irrational, illogical, ignorant, naive, morally crippled and inhuman to believe in such a story when so much has been learnt and discovered about human existence. So, 'Christ' can sit out of the mass. Symbolism in the form of crosses, nativity scenes etc aren't wrong. It's symbolic of the annual gathering. However, with the majority not attending church, why the 'Christ'?

[@TBrewer64]

The Christians took Saturn out of Saturnalia.

[@Nickat-fk8ud]

Merry Mythmas everyone!

[@vampiremessiah51]

He's responding to the uproar that many Christians have about the "Happy Holiday" movement and how they believe it's an attack on their right to say "Merry Christmas". His argument is that "Happy Holidays" doesn't attack Christmas, it opens the door for all Americans to celebrate the holidays regardless of their religion.

[@ajereks]

I agree! The first "merry Christmas," was "Peace on Earth, goodwill toward all." It's right there, in our tradition, in our Bible, why should we change our Christmas greeting to something divisive and exclusionary?

[@reeder77]

I am a Christian.... However I have always loved Penn. I dont agree with him on many things, but I respect his beliefs. But this video mad me angry.... You dont agree with Christianity, but you want to celebrate Christmas? I agree that he shouldnt be excluded. He says he wants to be a part of it. Soooo, he wants in but then he wants to take out Christ in Christmas?? Its a Christian holiday, come on in! But dont think you can come in and change what it celebrates! You repeatedly mention why cant it be a celebration between Americans. Isnt that what the 4th of July is for??????

[@EarthBoundBaby]

I agree. The man is talented. I suppose even the talented can be spiritually retarded. I only wish he'd think before he spoke. Perhaps, someone should buy him an helmet!

[@deliciousbutter6077]

Christmas has moved into one of the most cultural events in the world, and the 4th of July doesn't have a 20th of popularity that Christmas has. Also all the 4th of July is some fireworks and a few parties, nothing like the massive Christmas with different songs, culture and foods. If someone denied you just because of your beliefs you'd probably be pretty angry

[@EarthBoundBaby]

You are WRONG. Did you go all over the world and take a poll of every Christian alive? NO! To many who celebrate Christmas in it's religious aspect, it means a lot. It's people who ASSUME, like you have obviously done, that it only means one thing to "many". Who are these "many" people? Atheists, perhaps? Those of other religions who do not celebrate Christmas? I can tell you, there are more than many Christians who celebrate Christmas because it is a religious holiday to them. Just because most of the people you know are materialistic - even if they may claim to be "religious" - doesn't mean we all are!

[@DanicaDeCosto]

He never said you had to take Christianity out of it. He just said other people like to celebrate. I am not religious but I celebrate the Santa Claus, gift giving, decorating etc....part. What we have as Christmas now is really a lot of different things mixed together, like winter solstice. Pagan stuff is mixed in there. So he never said anything against Christianity. You can still go to mass or whatever you want on Christmas. But non-religious people celebrate it too without the Jesus part.

[@EarthBoundBaby]

If you had LISTENED, you might've heard him say, "Yes, I would like to take Christ out of Christmas". And, I DO NOT go to church. I despise organized religion. I'm just sick and tired, NOW, of how everyone seems to bitch about it. why can't we all just enjoy the merriment and get over it??

[@TheKhaosDragon]

I can see how Mr. Jillette does not see how there is an attack on Christmas. He is not attacking, nor seeing it as an attack to say holiday. The tradition has been around for a while, among atheists and christians. I see christmas, valentines, hanukah (sp), etc., as celebrations, all of them the same, for any and all who wish to celebrate. This is a free country. But, no one is trying to change the name of ramadan or hanukah, either. Celebrate, but don't forget the reason. This is respect

[@ronarprfct4C]

"Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas" makes me laugh. "Holiday" derives from "Holy Day".

[@l.sdesilva3218]

k

[@nikolasquintero249]

Man, this guy has the right idea. No matter what you are or believe in, no one should be left out. Screw those who say otherwise, bunch of idiots.

[@davidkaplan2745]

I'm an atheist ans grew up in an atheist home. I love Christmas. What's not to like?

[@EhlistarsWrath]

I’m an atheist, and I still enjoy Christmas more than any Christian, probably more than anyone! I skip out on Thanksgiving just to celebrate Christmas, it’s for everyone. I want people who hate the holiday to love it and join in the love with me, it’s a time for nothing but happiness

[@tubenewb1875]

By Penn's logic, why have Mother's Day, why not just People's Day? Why Independence Day, why not Every Country Day? Why Black History Month, why not Every Culture's History Month? Because we are a nation of different people and beliefs and we like to acknowledge those things explicitly. By saying Christmas, hanging posters in stores, putting it in sale ads, etc. people are saying "Here is a time when we acknowledge this Christian holiday". We don't need every thing at every time to honor every idea. We can separate them, emphasize them, and let people who don't care about certain things ignore them. What's dangerous is to say that people shouldn't care about expressing their beliefs (this isn't what Penn is saying, but some people take it that far). When people say we can't acknowledge a Christian holiday and must blend it into some homogeneous porridge of ideas, then yes, we do feel that there is a "war". Just as the celebrated groups would feel if somebody tried to change the holidays I mentioned above. Penn says we had to make up this word "Christian" in order to have the appearance of a group and be able to say "most people are Christian". Well, what's the point there? It wasn't like that before, so now it's invalid to acknowledge our similar belief? Then why does Penn use the word atheist? There must have been some point in history when that word wasn't used. Why is it valid to use it now to represent a group of people with his similar mindset? Can we group people together or can't we? For those who say the day or season was co-opted from the pagans and their winter solstice - so what? Do we really think the Pilgrims had a feast with the Native Americans on the 3rd Thursday after the first full moon of whatever and however Thanksgiving is calculated? It is a time to celebrate the idea. In the case of Christmas, the idea is the birth of Christ. Has that changed over time? Probably, but that's what it is now. Going back to my previous idea: is something automatically invalid because it's new? Besides if you're going to be all picky about origins, "holiday" derives from "holy day", so are you going to go around saying that to atheists? And finally, if, as Penn has penned, "Every day is an Atheist Holiday", why do they need Christmas, too? If you're going to talk about having an open mind and being accepting, why not accept that 1 day a year (or 1 month if you count all the advertising) people with a different belief will celebrate said belief?

[@hotblackdesiato5771]

I really think you are missing the point.
The idea is, its *all* horseshit. "Mother's Day", "Father's Day",and everything else, are all nonsense. Just absurd.
Now, none of us atheists want to take away your holiday. If thats how you believe and celebrate, I genuinely want you to do so. That is your absolute right and most libertarian atheists would rally around you if that were being infringed upon.
The idea is that creating a culture of Christian , or even Abrahamic, or indeed religious "normality", is a bad thing. Thomas Jefferson was against it, and rightly so. The idea that any American should be shunned or told that their belief system, or lack thereof, is *less than*, is exclusionary and Anti-American.
That is all we are talking about here.

[@BeansEnjoyer911]

As a believer, I find it crazy that anyone would exclude an atheist, it's so counter to our values. Or so I thought.
I thought we were supposed to spread love and peace, not be arrogant and hateful.
Oh well, just know we aren't all crazy, just the majority hahaha
Anyone is a person, and that means they are alive, and important. No matter the day or holiday

[@markstuber4731]

When I was a kid and first heard people say "Happy Holidays", I thought they were just said Holidays to include Thanks Giving, Christmas Eve, Christmas, and New Years. I never thought about it as trying to take the "Christ" out of Christmas.

[@madeleinebaier5347]

Hey Penn, you're welcome in my home any day! And yes, I'm a Christian. But I do have atheist friends, and pagan friends, and wiccan friends, and I'm profoundly grateful for all of them.

[@BaWitda]

That wasn't addressed at Mr. Jillette (for whom I have a great deal of respect), but rather towards the Christians who want to keep Christmas as a purely Christian holiday.

[@darrenspohn8376]

I'm an atheist and I celebrate christmas. To me it is a time to be with and celebrate friends and family. And I really do believe that saying of it is better to give than to receive. I always get great satisfaction from giving my BFF her christmas present.

[@AbrielMcPierce]

The fact is that Christmas (though a celebration of the birth of Christ) obtained many of it's customs from other religions. Gift giving, tree decorating, caroling, etc. were all "borrowed" from other religions in order to bring them over to Christianity in a "see, we can do those things too!" mentality.

[@GrinningMongoose]

The question you should ask is... how conscious were you as a child compared to today? Do you actually know what is happening when you type on your computer screen? How much reality/truth do you have? Are you really in control? Or are you simply making choices based upon what has been given to you by the universe, by god.

[@moyaboya]

Atheists don't believe in Christ but they do believe in spreading joy and gifts, which I think is a wonderful belief.

[@MiuKujo]

"More wars have been fought over religion than anything else." Is a quote used so often that I can't find the orrigional speaker. And it's true. The crusades, Salem witch trials, nearly every modern terrorist act, countless ancient wars. Hell, even several religious texts talk about slaugtering whole groups of people for not agreeing with that sect of religious view. When another religion crops up. Another religion strikes to make sure they are supreme under their god. And think it is right.

[@xytoplazm]

I didn't say that Christ was born EXACTLY during the winter solstice. I said that its celebration date was picked to coincide with the winter solstice.
It doesn't really matter what actual date Christ (if he existed) was born. The Christians at that time obviously needed to celebrate the nativity, and chose the December 25 date using various theological counting methods. The existence of Saturnalia, Yule and the feast of Sol Invictus influenced the choice of the date as well.

[@Nemle22]

Hypocrisy is a human trait. It's neither religious nor atheist. It's why I try and judge my views on people on an individual level.

[@Trenatos]

There seems to be a misunderstanding about something..
"Why should Christians give up calling Christmas, Christmas?"

[@NortonsNestMonthly]

Christmas traditions were taken from Pagan and Roman traditions. Most of the Christmas activities like greenery in home, lights, decorations and gifts were enjoyed long before Christ and Christmas. Anyone can enjoy those if they are religious or not.

[@E101ification]

When a Christian tells me I can't celebrate Christmas because I'm not a Christian, I tell them "I'm not; I'm celebrating the Pagan festival of the winter solstice - you know, that Pagan holiday you people stole, renamed and called your own..." - because as much as you don't want to admit it, people were celebrating the 25th of December for centuries before Jesus was born...

[@quintopia]

Well, I think the answer to Penn's question is obvious. In the words of rational!Harry: "the way people are built to feel inside is that they hurt when they see their friends hurting. Someone inside their circle of concern, a member of their own tribe. That feeling has an off-switch, an off-switch labeled 'enemy' or 'foreigner' or sometimes just 'stranger'." So, while Christians can include more people in their in-group, they can't include everyone, or who would they contrast themselves to?

[@haightashbury7995]

This Right to Freedom of Speech thing had been misinterprated & abused thru generations. I don't think the founding fathers thought about including the right to disrespect another human being clause under the Right to Freedom of Speech. Saying disrespectful words to another person is not the only way to show disrespect. By staring at you, mockingly laughing at you or spitting in your face are some of the examples of non verbal disrespect. Do they have the right to do those things to you?

[@mmmmmmmtoast]

Right, my point was meant to be that just because its called a theory doesn't make it automatically false. They are basically the best answers we have at the moment.

[@normaleitalia]

There's a MLK Day and a July 4th. No one is closing anyone out of Christmas, they want everyone to celebrate it and not change it into "Everybody Feel Good Day" If that were to happen, it would effectively end Christmas. The resistance you sense is not exclusionary, it is preservative. Atheists are not left out by others, they have removed themselves from the collective feeling joy of believers, like purposely removing their legs then complaining when others enjoy a walk.

[@ThePathersome]

It is always good for me to hear from others. I had no idea how you felt till now. I like Christmas time, because it is acceptable to have a tree with lights on it. I love getting up and turning on the lights every morning. I also like the gatherings that occur, my mother always accepted anyone at her Christmas table, so I never got the someone is being left out. I never liked the gift giving of Christmas. It always seemed so impersonal to me.

[@ghostlylover99123]

As Christmas is a pagan/Christian thing, it feels weird that Atheists would complain about being "left out" of Christmas, whenever I ask an Atheist, what do you like about Christmas, all they ever mention is the shopping, eating food, like mince pies, or opening presents they receive from friends and family, so Atheists are celebrating the secular version of Christmas, which is all about santa, shopping, presents, the dinner. So no, Atheists are not being left out of Christmas. you just have to remember that Christianity is a community, as is paganism. So it seems to me really that what SOME Atheists are really complaining about is being "left out" of the Christian community, which if unless you are Christian then unfortunately you are gonna be "left out" of the community, but not the festivals, seriously come on! all because you are "left out" of the community doesn't mean that you can't celebrate the festivals of paganism/Christianity.

[@haightashbury7995]

"This human being is ugly", you're the one who said it not me. I definitely agree with what you said.

[@TimeCodeMechanics]

What Penn's saying would make sense if it wasn't for the fact Christmas (as celebrated here in America) IS a Christian holiday. Christmas = CHRIST + MASS.

[@Nemle22]

He was born early April actually. Researchers can't agree on the specific date, but most say it's some time between the 3rd & 10th of April.

[@TheKhaosDragon]

Actually, the name is from the Catholic Christ's Mass. Just because it lands on or near a certain date that was used universally by almost all societies in history, does not mean that it was copied from another holiday. Even if the day was copied, festivus sol invictus does not claim to be a day to celebrate the birth of the Son of The Jewish God, Yahweh. Even in Genesis, it says the stars are for seasons, signs, and portents.

[@alanbourbeau24]

Jesus is the reason the Christmas season and i don't understand why some certian people say that Christmas is just a holiday and has no religious values.

[@AlexanderJansen]

No, Santa, or st.Nicholas was a christian saint. He is honoured for giving gifts and food to poor children. Problem is many people are not aware of this. Santa is christian.

[@Ace5846]

Well Christmas is an American holiday. A national holiday. It's not leaving anyone out to say "merry Christmas" if you don't celebrate it. Just like if I said "Happy Valentine's day" to the majority of adults who don't celebrate it, they aren't going to be offended. No one would consider that offensive, yet it's based on the idea of a Catholic Saint. It's a national holiday and you have the right to celebrate it or not. But if it's a national holiday, saying it won't leave out any American.

[@guardianewjedijoel]

Those who were killed weren't innocent, and they weren't necessarily children. Any of the Egyptians could have put the blood of a lamb on their front door, yet they chose not to. It wasn't that God was being mean or evil, God was just killing those who were blatantly rebelling against Him. Justice is not evil, and God is not evil for enacting justice.

[@xytoplazm]

"Christmas" is a word that reflects the fact that Christmas is a holiday that's primarily about the birth of Christ. Even if it evolved into something else in modern times (Santa Claus, commercialism, family gathering, etc.), it's still essentially a holiday that originated from the Christian tradition.
I don't see why it has to be renamed. If everyone around the world wanted to celebrate the Hindu Diwali festival, they cannot force Hindus to call it "The Holiday".
That's simply obnoxious.

[@zachstanley9931]

Unless you can point out a point where I was being selective based on the information in this video, stop saying that I have "selective memory". I believe that a major prerequisite for having selective memory is that your memory actually be selective. As for the Christmas part of your message, I appreciate you trying to turn it around on me by saying that we should get along all year (even though you had a different attitude a few messages ago). You have to start somewhere.

[@oO_ox_O]

> Celebrate, but don't forget the reason. This is respect
So true, so let's don't forget that the real name is festivus sol invictus!

[@ImpracticalLessons]

My kids (atheist family) have just been taught it's a family holiday in which we exchange gifts. As they get older I plan to explain that even though our family is christian we aren't, but we're still family.
It really isn't a big deal.

[@bluespiral58]

Nobody is asking anyone to modify anyone's beliefs. Some of us grew up christian but are no longer, yet we may choose to keep some of the more secular traditions. I appreciate that you respect that. Don't change on my account. But your resentment in my wishing you happy holidays is only hurting yourself. Not me!

[@Ataraxia0]

as someone who does not believe in god I say merry Christmas, instead if happy holidays or the like. it's simply just a holiday, and a reason to get together and share joy and happiness.

[@Kindaya1]

I, as an atheist, dont take any offence by the word christmas, because christmas have nothing to do with christianity.
Thats a modern invention, and the english language is the only language where the word for christmas have anything to do with christianity.

[@davewilliams9804]

As an Australian I was under the impression that the whole "happy holiday" thing was to not upset the Jews. Never saw it as an atheist thing. I for one am an atheist and refer to the season as Christmas and so do ALL people I talk with. In this country, in my experience, I have a Jewish colleague who wished me a happy Easter. Go figure. A Jew wishing an atheist a happy Easter! Perhaps we don't get baited to wedge issues so easy...Love your work Penn. When you visiting?

[@xytoplazm]

Christmas was never established to be Saturnalia, Yule or the Invictus feast. Minor elements from these previous winter festivals were incorporated into Christmas by the popular masses, but Christmas was a NEW holiday, with its own focus on Jesus' nativity.
The Christians here are telling you that you should also create a NEW holiday for atheism, if you want to. But don't ask the Christians to rename Christmas, because it's really rude.
I am an atheist, but I agree with them.

[@guardianewjedijoel]

Have you ever heard of the term "embarrassing evidence?" Whenever historians are trying to determine if a document is legitimate or not, they will often look at if the content embarrasses the author or not. Paul used to kill Christians, and then he converted. Why would He make up something so terrible about himself if he was trying to gain the trust of other Christians? Also he had every motive to lie about being a Christian, yet he didn't. He was eventually killed for not denouncing his faith.

[@PinkChampagne1981]

I have one problem with atheists or anyone celebrating just the secular version of Christmas, and that is they rarely celebrate other religion's major holidays, and certainly not in some secular, altered version.
That being said, it's secular Christians, not atheists, that have turned Christmas, Halloween, and Easter into secular holidays that have nothing with their actual context: Christmas - Nativity of Jesus, Halloween - Remembrance of the fallen saints, Easter - Resurrection of Jesus.

[@MidwestGamerss]

I never said it was just his religion that influenced what he chose to do in his life. I said that his religion had something to do with why he was nonviolent. His case was that his religion had NOTHING to do with it. I doubt that severely.

[@Fwcaballero57]

being a catholic, i believe that christmas is much larger than religion. More than anything its about love, appreciatiation for the things, opportunities, and people in your life. Good-will for your fellow man. If i say "merry christmas", im not trying to alienate atheists, jews, or any group, im trying to spread good-will to you, with or without religious connotation, it has nothing to do with religion. the name of the holiday is just a word

[@iMaDeMoN2012]

Everyone has three identities, what they do, what they think and what the say. I'm a catholic by practice, atheist by belief, and I say I'm agnostic.
Christmas is not the winter solstice celebration by the same nature. You keep the tradition, believe in the Christmas spirit, but don't call it Christmas without Jesus.

[@normaleitalia]

Christmas is like a high school prom. Not everyone has a date, not everyone is going to enjoy it. Changing the name of the function is not the same as changing the underlying reason that some people DO enjoy it. Likewise, telling everyone that they can no longer bring a date or dance with anyone will not suddenly make it fun for all. If I am a high school kid, have a date and want to dance and I see one sign that reads 'Non-Date/Non-Dance Here' and one that reads 'Prom Here'....

[@matthewscott1091]

I’m a Christian & most of my friends are atheist & agnostic. All but one celebrates Christmas. They love Christmas! I even have a Hindu friend who celebrates it. There’s not now nor has there ever been in our time a “War on Christmas.” This “war” is just a red herring cooked up to distract people from real issues. “Oh don’t pay attention to *Xyz issue.* Look at what “they” are doing to Christmas!” 🙄 And people fall for it every year.

[@AbrielMcPierce]

Celebrating life at all, as the pagans did. The return of spring was the main point of celebrations in the winter.

[@gidawg]

Penn, nobody is trying to leave you out. You said you are fine with the word "Christmas". Many are not. That is the source of the problem. What is the harm in a "Christmas party". Or a "Hanukkah party" for that matter? As a gentile, if I were invited to a Hanukkah party, my only concern would be understanding what the party was about: appropriate dress, what to bring for a hosts gift, etc. I would not be offended because my viewpoint was not represented. I would be thankful I was included.

[@vampiremessiah51]

He's not saying Atheists want to celebrate Christmas, he's saying Atheists, and Jews, and Muslims, and Christians all want to celebrate. Why should it be considered an attack to include everybody by saying "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas"?

[@teehee1604]

Jesus was born in the summer of the year 4 BCE, but the historians at the time placed the date wrong to bring it in line with a pagan festival which was celebrated at the time. It never belonged to the Christians in the first place.

[@Nerobyrne]

But that is exactly what it is. It means that you can't force me to be quiet because you don't like what I have to say. I have the right to disrespect everyone, and they have the right to disrespect me back. There is no law that sais that you have a right to not be disrespected, except by the state. The state has laws that prevent it from legally disrespecting certain groups of people, but individuals can disrespect anyone for any reason.

[@healthyhomesoflubbock3985]

What kind of country are we living in when a comedian/ juggler makes more sense than our elected officials

[@xytoplazm]

The celebration of the birth of Christ was meant to coincide with Saturnalia, Yule and the feast of Sol Invictus in the Church's PR campaign to turn the Romans and Germans to their side.
That does not mean that Christmas was a Roman construction. So, your point is null.
The local atheists in my area are bringing back Saturnalia in defiance of the Catholic Church. But Saturnalia being a polytheistic celebration... I don't think our local atheists were thinking rationally at that time.

[@NightmareSTD]

seasons are different in different parts of the world, just because it wasn't winter at the time in Bethlehem, doesn't mean it wasn't winter here

[@Grumpum]

And then they side with those that aren't really on their side. And I am relaxed. My apologies if you think my tone is tense or combative. I'm speaking to those who call themselves christian but do not act in a christian manner.

[@ronstone6839]

It might seem splitting hairs, but while the date we observe Christ's Mass (Christmas) is indeed near the celebration of the Winter Solstice, it was a common practice in the early church to have such celebrations on a date which gave the formerly pagen people something ELSE to do on that date. So while the date was a pagen holiday, the Christian world uses that date to celebrate a CHRISTIAN holiday! (same for Easter in the spring...)

[@kellycoulter9708]

And I am not a very good computer person here, for some reason it posted the same comment twice from me, and not my current response regarding medical science finding out that if we take one day a week to rest, fast (drink water) rest the cells in our body, it helps balance our body, gives everything a rest, and helps us live longer, the Sabbath is on Saturday, that old command of "remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy" thing. (:D)
Sorry for the duplications!

[@ronstone6839]

I've watched several of Mr Jillette's pieces this evening. One thing I've noticed: In almost EVERY ONE he misquotes someone. Here, he does not seem to want to directly quote Martin Luther King Jr. So he mentions the "I had a dream" speech and says that Dr King said "Free at last! Lord Lord!"
He wants to NOT be left out of Christmas...Lets consider this.
He doesn't want anything to do with God, but he WANTS US TO BUY HIM CHRISTMAS PRESENTS! Seriously?!?

[@Kenbow183]

I am a Christian because I know that I must be tolerant to those with other beliefs and not believe that you should be friendly, kind, and be inclusive to others

[@Scrooge83X]

Scientist are not debating if it happens but how it happens. Scientist used to believe in LeMarcks' theory of evolution but now we know its Darwin's natural selection. Thats the beauty in science it adapts and changes if new information comes along. Whilst religion is simply to rigid in their beliefs and doesn't accept change very well.

[@dIRECTOR259]

Christmas is an ancient, even pre-Christian tradition among the people of northern Europe. Its themes are those of Yule, a pagan tradition. Now, I'm an atheist, an antitheist even, I can't really buy into the supernatural nonsense - but I'll be damned if I'll support someone trying to marginalize or even ban one of the oldest and most noble traditions of our folks. Leave those Christmas trees alone, and say Merry Christmas.
And frankly, I can't help but notice its atheists of Jewish descent, like Dave Silverman, that keep talking about marginalizing this holiday. I have nothing against Jewish people, but its not their tradition, and they shouldn't be asking atheists to stop celebrating it.

[@is_it_nathan]

Well Christmas is a holiday based on the Winter Solstice celebration. Also the celebration of Horus' birthday. The Egyptian god which Jesus was copied from.

[@dIRECTOR259]

GoogleTheGoogleplex You've been watching too much Zeitgeist. That speculative claptrap may or may not be true. Regardless of whether it is, the traditions of Christmas are taken straight from Yule, a German pagan tradition. It is indeed based on the solstice, but for a very practical reason: its when you slaughter animals before the four famine months arrive. When you have your last feast before facing said famine months.

[@happyboy1029]

Christmas isn't really a religious thing anymore... it's more like a celebration. It is now celebrated with a tree, lights, Santa Clause, etc -- things that were not done centuries ago... most Christians don't even go to church on Christmas, which is why I view this celebration more like a custom.

[@jarradpuckridge8210]

im not religious i renounced it after i saw how much trouble it has caused i dont believe in god i never have. but i celebrate christmas christmas is a gathering for which everyone shares a part in if jesus doesent mean anything to you family and friends should just because one isnt religeos doesnt mean he or she should be left out in the cold because he doesent belive in god thats exactly what jesus preached against jesus preached love compassion acceptance but people do the opposite

[@WillHouldy]

I'm a Doctor, I can issue you some cream for that burn!

[@Rensune]

No one tries to leave Atheists out ( and they don't make up 30%). Look at Japan: they celebrate Christmas and barely have any Christians

[@MrJarth]

If I went to Arabia and then lived there and become a citizen, do you think I would have a right to complain when all the food shops were closes because of Ramadan? That the country should be more inclusive of my culture?

[@muggymug]

This is such a humorous video. Let me see if I get this straight. Christians who are trying to celebrate their religious holiday, are depriving non-believers of their "joy" because they insist on calling the holiday by its actual name. Sigh...... What it really boils down to is that Christians are tired of having our religious traditions chipped away at, in a piecemeal fashion. So my suggestion to you Penn, is to start swapping gifts at Kwanzaa if that will make you happy.