Rome (HBO) - Lucius Vorenus Becomes a Senator of Rome
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- Опубліковано 24 лют 2021
- Ceasar designates his former centurion Lucius Vorenus as a Senetor of Rome.
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"I wish the senate to be made of the best men in Italy, not just the richest old men in Rome" Wow what a line, and definitely strikes a chord even today...
And that's why they hate and fear Trump. When the elites band together against one of their own. They are not doing it for the sake of the people, but to punish the one that got out of the line. Caesar drew the hatred of the Roman elites because he was out of line, instead of appeasing the elites, Caesar went straight to the plebs. Ironic, even though the citizens are nominally the ones in charge, in fact, that was never and is not the case. It is always those who have the means that are in power, and if one of them goes out of line, they would rather kill him than to enact any reforms.
that's how progress is made.. with strong nation
Love how Anthony bursts into laughing when he hears the words "as a friend" by Cicero towards Caesar.
I KNOW
The acting here is just superb and is leagues above Game of Thrones, James Purefoy is only one example.
@@sowpmactavish GoT wasnt THAT bad. Just had a bad season is all.
@@nocturnalrecluse1216 it had a bad few seasons tbf. Season 5, 7, and 8 were all quite shite
@@TheMrmatthewparker fair enough. I guess that 8 sucked so bad the show has been forgotten entirely.
@@nocturnalrecluse1216 and that’s exactly how it should stay. Dead and buried. I come back to rome clips on UA-cam but never GoT. I think that has to be because while it was slightly rushed, Rome had a pleasing ending, with no huge deviation from historical accuracy other than to enhance the plot. Easy to look back on the earlier episodes fondly when you know it won’t start to stink.
Vorenus being a senator is so great because it actually has a historical basis. At first the viewer probably thinks he was made a senator because they wanted the main character to be closer to the political action or for some other narrative purpose, that’s what I thought and that may be somewhat true, but Caesar actually did promote a bunch of Centurions and other veteran officers to the senate in order to reward them for their service and to gain loyal senators, so it actually makes perfect sense historically that he would promote Vorenus, as he was a veteran Centurion who proved his loyalty to Caesar.
But it was a sacrilege and a disgrace towards the institutions of the republic. To be a senator you have to be an aristocrat. Or at least respect the cursus honorum. You can’t make a plebeian senator just like that. It was a tyrannical decision. To make Vorenus senator without antagonize the senate, Vorenus had to be adopted in a aristocratic family.
@@gaiusiuliuscaesar3809 I know the republic roman at this time was dying. But for the senator it wasn’t the case.
@@gaiusiuliuscaesar3809 Come on ! Do you think Caesar extended the senate in adding gauls and plebeians senators because they were true republican ??
What Caesar did was a mistake.
@@gaiusiuliuscaesar3809 Sure, it was a bold move and never in his wildest dream he could have imagined that the senator would bring knives in the senate and murdered him. Nobody could anticipated what these senators did because it was unroman and unrepublican. So to be fair I can’t really blame Caesar for that
@@gaiusiuliuscaesar3809 Funny thing is that many of the same issues that led to the Roman Republic’s fall have manifested in America.
Vorenus when he gets home: So I'm a Senator of Rome now.
Niobe and the kids: faint
Vorenus's life is a tragedy. Somehow I wanted that guy to be happy. All he just wanted was to be with his family. An honorable man too.
''AS A FRIEND...''
*Antoni starts losing it*
lmfao mark antonys reaction to cicero losing his shit gets me every time
I swear this scene needs a laugh track lmfao
I like to believe that was improv
Haha your profile picture is damn edgy man.
lol guess he really likes it when cicero is distressed
I love that slightly disapproving yet also mildly amused look Caesar shoots Antony after he starts laughing. This scene is just perfect.
these actors are so god damn good
"Listen to this, Cicero..." That is some Imperial level trolling right there.
Imperial being the operative word, even.
Imagine going to work one morning to face your boss, owning your mistake and awaiting certain death, only to find yourself getting a promotion and pay rise
Honesty: Only the most devoted and true men possess such a trait.
And it was his second offense.. Caesar forgiving him for letting Pompei go.... Imagine going to Caesar again... Boss i fucked up. AGAIN. 🤣 Trully powerful gods on Vorenus side.
@@neddhuit helps that he's also extremely loyal, hard-working and Not dumb.
Caesar might have not said it...but its evident that he admires vorenus' respect towards a Roman consul...even if he was an enemy...this was like a 100% proof that vorenus would never betray Rome, which was important for Caesar
"There's none worthier. You shall make an excellent Senator"
I believe Julius fully meant this. Think about everything Vorenus has done under Julius and Mark Antony. He rescued Octavian(Julius's future adopted son and heir), returned the golden eagle, found and refused to capture Pompey out of principle, one of two survivors on a shipwreck, found and rescued Cleopatra, and saved his friend/comrade from public execution, and became adored by the people as a hero. Julius clearly sees that Vorenus is destined by the gods of Rome as he sees it
At this stage, and based on the characterization of Vorenus by Kevin McKidd, I don't think it makes that much sense for Cicero to react this way. Cicero himself is a novum homo, he doesn't need to be gatekeeping Vorenus or referring to him as a plebian when Cicero is also a plebian while Antony and Caesar were born patricians. This would play better if Caesar had made Pullo a senator.
If anything, Cicero should be seizing on the idea of creating more senators like Vorenus as an alternative to Gallic senators.
Who but the sons of dis give you the right to make such judgement! 😂
@@user-nh5mq6kc9v Great comment but one small mistake: Antony was also a plebeian.
Love everyone's reactions. Cicero is horrified, Antony smiles because he doesn't quite know what to make of this turn, and Posca is just genuinely beaming at Vorenus. Antony laughs at Cicero's "as a friend" yes, but its still just an extension of "what the hell is going on here?"
I love Posca's reaction. To see a pleb, and not just a pleb but a soldier at that to be anointed a Senator of Rome surely was something to behold for a slave.
To be fair, Mark Antony was a Pleb and Cicero was not a patrician.
@@royaltoadclub8322Posca was overall great
I love the symbolism of the map at Vorenus's feet. The World is literally at your feet.
That tantalizing view lasted only with Caesar present. Notice without Caesar the world map is rolled up and Vorenus is headed for a great fall.
One of the best scenes in the series. I especially like Anthony... great acting here.. And Cicero aswell. For me this guy is Caesar... nobody can come close to his performance.
AGREED!
Caesar is Rome.
All the acting is superb for sure. None better than Stevenson and McKidd
@@coachmikesfilmroom3111 I think Anthony was the best in the series.
@@neddhu understandable. He was amazing too
"What? No wreath of oak leaves?" Antony is such a damn troll..LMAO
I like how Caesar immediately shuts down Marc Antony's quip, showing how respectful he is towards Vorenus who Caesar knows feels out of his league. He treats Vorenus as a loyal Centurion who bled for him should be treated.
Because Caesar like any good dictator (not a tyrant) knew how to stay in power: by giving the people what they wanted, even if it goes against his wishes.
If only our current leaders, who impose on us foreign globalist agendas nobody voted for, were as benevolent as an old school dictator...
@@el_killorcure Octavian and Caesar were the exceptions. 'Absolute power absolutely corrupts'. Too many politicians today achieved their positions through outright treachery. Sometimes when a system is broken it takes one person given that power who knows how to wield it to reset everything. Trouble is 'keeping the mob happy' and doing the right thing is a delicate balancing act.
@@tomservo5347 Agreed, didn't say a good old dictator was common, most degenerated into tyrants.
But not all.
Caesar and Octavian were in a class of their own, the one were peopke were worthy of the title of Caesar...
@@el_killorcure Lets not make Octavian out to be some magnanimous and merciful guy. He proscribed many more than Caesar, Sulla and Marius. The incident at Perugia speaks for itself. When he was low on money he could be a degenerate tyrant, cruel and calculating is what afforded him a long life.
@@mule1298 Who said Octavian was merciful?
He would be an idiot if so, after watching Caesar being killed by people he showed mercy to.
The series makes a point of showing Octavian and Anthony NOT making the same mistake, even going overboard.
But honestly who could blame them ..
0:57
That little scratching at the nevk shows that Cicero already knew where this is going.
Yeah he rubs the place where Pullo will stab him..great forshadowing... practically this scene decided Cicero's death...
Imagine Lucius Vorenus debating with other Senators…
Lots of broken Concorde statues
@@yoyoyickityyo lots of broken Concorde asses
FELLOW SENATORS OF THE REPUBLIC
Ironic that Cicero himself was an Italian Equite and not a Roman patrician. Of course the show writers had to make due with the absurdly limited time they were given, so we can’t blame them. They had to fit in the attitude of conservative senators somewhere. If only we had 8 seasons of this instead of game of incest.
Indeed but he (cicero ) was from an aristocratic lineage. And It’s wasn’t unheard for Rome to incorporate nobleman from part of their territory into the senate thanks to social wars. So to incorporate the noblest men from a Celtic background to the senate make sense even if it’s odd. After all these Celtic noble were from ally tribe of Rome and were educated in Roman culture.
However a plebeian into the Senate is a disgrace and sacrilege. You have to respect the cursus honorum or at least be adopted into an aristocratic family. It was a tyrannical decision Caesar made. So the writers knew their things.
In 8 seasons of Rome you would see quite the incest too, like it was in real life
Vorenus and Pullo fighting their way clear of Teutoberg would have been wild.
"game of incest"
I love how Rome fans can only come up with the weakest and most childish insults.
I love Rome and hated the last seasons of GoT but come up with something better
@@balabanasiretiGame of Bullsh1t
Socially a roman senator was equivalent to a foreign king. In a way Caesar made him royalty.
Nope. That would be a consul. Senators were so wildly different in rank that not such an equivalent is possible. A Quaestor is just a magister, and a consul is the elected short-term co-king of Rome. Both are senators.
The best part of this show is Antony in season 1 giving his 2 cents on everything and always laughing at shit man is a straight menace some times 🤣
I don't know why, but Marc-Antony's laughter is truly contagious! :D :D ... Quote: "...I must protest!...AS A FRIEND!..." (bursts out in laughter!)
I mean Ceasar is making the people happy, but Cicero knew better, even if he is ignorant of the conspiracy at the time. And as a friend, he has to tell Gaius that this act is definitely a bit too far for the patricians to tolerate at the time.
Vorenous goes to Caesar expecting to be punished for a crime, and got appointed to a top government position
2:06 Mark cracking up makes me laugh every time. 😂😂😂
Goddamn, that is hilarious.
The writing in this show in incredible, I wonder where they are during game of thrones last 3 seasons.
"Well, they kind of forgot about them".
Last seasons of GOT seem like ordinary fan fiction from a RPG fans' forum.
0:58 masterful foreshadowing -> cicero's reaction when Pullo is mentioned, if u watched the show you'll know xD
Don't forget that under Sulla's constitution major military crown winners, like the Civic or Grass crowns, were automatically inducted into the Senate. Also people had to rise and applaud when they entered into a room and they spoke before junior members. Military heroes were very popular in Rome.
Also, roman soldiers received a share of the booty from the battles they participated in at the end of the campaign. And got a greater share the higher their rank. A senior centurion that served during most of Caesar's Gallic Wars was probably quite wealthy after Caesar had his triumph. Probably wealthy enough to qualify for the senatorial census.
If you have seen the series you know he lost his wealth to bad investments.
That Pasca and Anthony smile after Ceasar tells Vorenus he will be a senator AHAHAHA this is one of the best scenes ive seen
"If I can’t punish you, I must reward you" is such a Caesar quote
They never explained how Vorenus suddenly stops being a senator. All of Caesar's appointments were kept, so Vorenus should have still been a senator going into season 2, but him ever being one was literally never brought up again after Caesar's death in the first season.
After Cesar death in season 2 , Mark Anthony made a deal with the senior members of Senate to acknowledge Cesar will in return to ignore all Cesar's appointments ( Celts and others)and anything he did while he was dictator
@@Je-suis-pauvre no, the deal (both in show and in the real world) was that Caesar would not be declared Tyrant, meaning all his acts and appointments would remain legal and be kept, but they would not be declared his killers (since his murder would only have been legal if he was declared Tyrant), so they wouldn't be punished. Vorenus should therefore remain a senator.
Do they ever explicitly say he’s not a senator anymore?
Just going off his character, he probably just up and quit. Seeing the true politics behind rome, specially after Caesar's assassination probably filled him with disgust and depression as we later see the state he is in further into the season.
I believe he just became a legatus and dipped out of rome
actually i've always wondered if mark anthony demeanor is exactly like how james purefoy portray him to be? lol.
Had vorenus been by Caesar side the entire senate could’ve throw themselves at Cesar and he would never even got a drop of blood on him.
Titus and Vorenus were great characters
Well, that was Caesar's plan. That's why he wanted Vorenus by his side "for the first few weeks," and why Mark Antony later told him he had failed.
So pathetic the Pap they call content now ,This astonishing series was a blessing the likes of which we will never see again.
The mention of Pullo and it cuts to Cicero rubbing his neck. On the exact spot Pullo would thrust his blade through....they knew what they were doing!
I mean Caesar's first explanation(s) here is just a reflection of who he was and what he sought in actuality. The whole talk about the will of the people is just him really trying to court and gain more favour with the general populace.
The man was trying to smooth his way into a kingship, and probing and pleasing the public was required
The music in this series is just phenomenal
*"I wish the Senate to be made of the best men in Italy, not just the richest and oldest men in Rome."*
And I wish the USA had this mentality:
I wish for the US to be governed by the best men in America, not just the rich senile crooks (on the special interest lobbyist payroll) in Washington, DC.
"An intriguing notion Sir"
lol.The double tap on the shoulder sums up Marc Antony’s character in the whole 2 seasons.
Such a brilliant scene.
2:05 😂 😂
1:26 lmao fucking posca 👀
Pretty stunning rise in power.
He deserves it yknow, not only he was loyal to caesar but to roman traditions, in today's world a man like that would be the president of a nation with significant enough support . That's how Caesar got his power in the first place anyway , through love of the people...
Populares politicians still exist in the modern day. Trump in USA, Brexiteers in UK etc. For as long as there will be politics, there will be men/woman who know how to harness the love and support of the people
@@gaiusiuliuscaesar3809 not duty, but goal
Nope. He got it through strength of his army and huge bribes to the people. But yes he was liked through Italy, a lot of cities opened their gates... well knowing him they probably thought it was better then being sieged and pillaged.
Didn't really make sense how Cicero was more upset of a pleb being raised to senator over a gaul
That show was absolutely magnificent! :)
Why would Cicero protest over this??After all,though Cicero was,at least in principale,on the Optimate Side,he was by birth,a provincial Italian and from an obscure plebeian family
Romans felt kinship with the rest of italics by virtue of traditions, religion, etc but a gaul is a just romanized foreigner
Imagine gas companies saying if we ramp up the price of gas, the people will be angry, ergo, we can't ramp up the price of gas. We need the modern caesars to be afraid of the people.
Absolutely fantastic scene. In truth who DESERVES MORE to be there? - a character like Cicero, or someone like Vorenus? (or someone just alike him?) ...is the Roman Empire only few families that have the dubious claim to be there based on some "name" from the past, coupled with (maybe most important factor) - WEALTH? ...or is it all the peoples and languages and races and cultures of the vast Empire - do they deserve to be there, too, because they BLED (literally) for Rome? Like it or not but that's historically accurate - it has been a "conundrum" for Rome itself for centuries. Is Rome JUST Rome the City, checked in power by few families that by this point only diguise themselves as "Aristocrats", because the true "Patricii" simply died out ? - or is Rome ALL the lands and peoples that provide for it? Fun fact! - most of the families that descended from the "Founding Fathers" of the original Rome were extinct by this time. Many of them died out in the Punic Wars. The rest - the few that remained - were simply swept away during the Civil Wars - from the ones of Marius, through the bloodbaths of Sulla, up the ones of Ceasar & Octavian Augustus.
In the histories, Cicero definitely deserves to be on the senate.
As for Mark Anthony.... ahem... 🙊🙉🙉
Cicero having a problem with non Romans becoming senators is funny as hell. Cicero was Italian, not Roman. And he was called an “outsider” by many Roman detractors. He even appealed to the Italians in the Republic when it came for his election as Consul
Caesar was truly a benevolent dictator 👑 🥰
Why the fuck did HBO cancel this show?wht a shame.
Que buena serie joderr
I don't know what it is but Cicero looks like he should join the English clergy.
I hear there is a valuable living at the Hunsford parsonage near Rosings Park, the estate of Lady Catherine De Bourgh, in Kent, which is free.
At the very least, David Bamber (Cicero) did actually play a Pope
He also played Mr Collins in the BBC pride and prejudice miniseries.
You are my Roman Empire!
So, that closing line is really funny to me, this whole scene really is the Schrodinger's cat of historical accuracy. A lot of this is truncating it for the sake of television and drama.
But its so absolutely worth noting. Cicero is not actually from Rome. He was born in the Italian country side, For most of his career in the senate his detractors would shout 'foreigner' at him like a slur. He spoke latin, was a principled constitionalist that after the catalin conspiracy be honored as a savior and "father of the republic".
We don't know how Cicero felt about Caeser adding ethnic gauls to the senate (to be clear, they wore toga's, cut their hair, and spoke latin.) but if anybody in Rome could empathize, It would have been him.
What? No wreath of oak leaves?
Ceasar: Shh!
Batiatus dream
Wasn't Cicero also a pleb?
He was an equestrian, so while not exactly a patrician he was still sort of part of the nobility.
No. He was the lower from the upper classes.
@Rosario Manorang Manik how a man could became a patrician ?
@@mushroomhead5914 by marrying into a patrician family which was illegal in the early days fun fact cato is also not a patrician but from a pleb family he was also tribune of the plebs at one point
no offense