How to turbo BMW m50/m52 engine, S02E06 Head installation and new regrind cams.
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- Опубліковано 16 бер 2017
- This time we are going to install the head back to the engine with the turbo manifold. And also the new cams are going in and timed in easy way.
If you want to help making of these videos, you can donate to this channel through PayPal: paypal.me/pazi88
Some parts we used:
- The ARP headstuds (Amazon): goo.gl/NRY6T4
- The ARP headstuds (eBay): goo.gl/7mSxZ5
- The upper timing chain kit: goo.gl/1vZe66
- Lower timing chain kit: goo.gl/vokEEM
If you have m52 or m50 with newer style lower tensioner the kit: goo.gl/M26uUu
Music: Valesco - Cloud 9 [Royalty Free Music]
• Valesco - Cloud 9 [Roy... - Авто та транспорт
Awesome video again! Can't wait to see this beast running, I've learned a lot from your videos so I'd like to say Thank You for taking the time to make them ✌
Thanks a lot! Hopefully we can get it running soon.
Thank you for awsome video! I really enjoy them and thanks for allways having subtitles :)
Thanks! And yeah I don't publish these videos before I get the subtitles done.
Awesome build 👏🏼 thanks for the video
Love your content. Thank you for sharing. Your videos have helped me out with my car over the last year.
Thanks. Glad to know that I have helped.
thank you for making these videos!
pazi you are putting some great videos! keep it up bro! ;) big respect
Thanks a lot!
love your vids man. I've always got to wait till the right time to watch them as i need to read the subbies as i can only speak English. i wish i had the time and space for projects and stuff
Thanks! Yeah we are not doing this just to make videos so that's why we don't speak English. It would be strange to work on our cars and not speak our native language doing that :D
This series is just like 'My summer car'. Greetings from Iceland! =)
Bro thanks so much for this video
nice video! thanks
24:02 tightening torque wheels cams Thanks
Loistavia videoita! Ja erityis poitsit e30 kuningas kopasta.
Top o' the mornin' to ya, like to wish you a happy St. Patty's Day....
??
I'm doing an m50/m52 build but natural aspirated, I'm wondering if it will work.
By any chance would you happen to know the Wiseco pistons part number you used?
Awesome video, except the music >.<
What did you use to paint the manifold? Did it last?
I always put the lifters with a dab of grease in the trays, so they don't fall out when installing ;)
Max Lindner That's also one way. But I didn't thought that I will need instal lifters in that way, so I didn't buy proper grease to help with that.
Hallo Sipa!
Ich komme von Deutschland und wollte mal fragen ob du Undichtigkeiten mit der Athena Zylinder kopfdichtung hast am m52b28 Motor ?
Mfg Jens Schubert
love ur vids guys. am not more professional than u are but i heard a guy who built a 1050hp m50 with 36 psi boost that he torques arp head bolts to 30 ft.pound first round then lossens a bit about 180° then 60ft.pound round then loosens then 90 ft.pound or 120N.m and leaves it right there. gd luck with this build and hope u kill some tires like crazy👍👍👍👍
Yeah +1000hp from m50 is not impossible. There are several engines like that in Finland.
pazi88 yh man i know ur engines are great too i just wabted to mention the head bolt tightening technique
Hey pazi I have m50 non vanos engine too, you can tell what is the torque spec for the 2 camshafts sprockets?
Pd: Nice video series bro! Greetings from Mexico
Hi Pazi, thank you for your great Videos! I enjoyed Them a lot. Just one small thing: AS you said you have never used regrind cams before there is a thing that you did "wrong" when adjusting the cams. Your Method is very similar with using the original BMW special tool. But because of regrinding this doesnt just work right anymore. So you have to remember that the "centers" of your cams have now moved because of Grinding them. So we have the problem here, that those sprockets arent in right Position anymore. For correct timing you have to measure the cam Stroke in TDC same way as when using an m50 NV ex cam for intake in m50 vor M52. Sorry for my bad english, I'm from Germany and I hope you understand what I mean.
If you check your cam Stroke in tdc with a gauge and compare the Position oft the sprockets to the actual position you will definately have a difference.
Hope this helped for some extra HP :D.
Keep up your great vids!
regards,
alex
The cams came with instructions and those said that timing should be made to factory markings. So I did so. The centers aren't moved in those but because of the grinding there is more duration in the cams. And that will lead to the valves being more open at TDC that with stock cams. But that is a wanted effect.
Okay so they made their job very good and grinded them to the original Center. Thats not usual, normally most of the shops do it with moving and so you will get an unwanted effect.
Just saying! Nice to hear everything is fine so no more double work to do :)
Muuten hyvä video paitsi vituttava väli musiikki.
Savu Muikku Juu ei voi kaikkia miellyttää. Ei jaksanu pelkkää hiljaisuuttakaan laittaa.
On rojaltivapaata kaikkine herkkuineen (mietitty) ja käytetty viisaasti. Vaikka ei mielimusiikkia niin täysin nykypäivän standardeihin uppoavaa ja kuulostaa hyvältä! Sopii oikein videoon. Kaiken kaikkiaan hienoa tekemistä. Jos tasan sadasta vain kaksi alapeukaloi (98 - 2 atm) suhteutettuna kaikkeen UA-cam-matskuun olemme "Graalin maljan" äärellä.
I put arp studs in without ever removing the cams. You also shouldn't mix up the lifters, they must go back in their original location or they will all wear out quickly
I haven't been able to find socket that fits through the lifter trays. And I know and I tried to put those in the right locations.
Love it, when is start up video? :-D
Christian Grytten Thanks. That may take month or two. Hopefully only one :D
Nice :->
I kinda smashed my e36 last drift practise haha, so i need a new right fender, doing e46 control arms and a mod to mounts of steering links, hopefully more angle, going to try your tune for the m52 ecu :-> thx for videos
For keeping lifters use small neodymium magnets for each lifter and that TIG wire which you used on top. Easiest way to keep lifters.
eimantas28 That's one way. But I didn't thought that I will need instal lifters in that way, so I didn't buy anything to help with that.
Keep this in mind for future ;)
Magnets and hydraulic lifters do not mix, they can become defective if they end up magnetized.
There is nothing in hydraulic lifers that would be affected by magnets.
Very helpful thanks, what are the torque settings for the 8 bolts on the sprockets please cheers very informative vid
Thanks! I think it was 21Nm. But you can find the torques "easily" from NewTIS for example.
+pazi88 You didn't think about VAG hydraulic lifters? Part number 050 109309H.
With iron block you could go with 85mm piston for 2.9l displacement.
Pietrek L We will change the vag lifters in the engine if those start to make noise or behave strange. And boring the block is so expensive where I live, et doesn't make sense compared to the benefits. It's only feasible if the bores are too worn out.
hey, i see this video was a while back but i'd hope you could answer a question. The torque you set for the arp head studs (~100nm) seems quite alot and was wondering what the factory torque is? i bought AM studs by the brand Raceware for an m52 aluminum block and those are torqued to 55 nm. what do you think?
josh wilson We used 90Nm. The factory torques can't be compared because stock bolts are stretch type and those are torqued down by degrees.
can you explain how you timed the cams with that piece of metal?did you have the cams flush against it at TDC? Then the lobes facing to the left?
yeah cams flush. It works same way as this tool for example: www.bimmerfest.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=318626&d=1332802844
Do you have a part number for the torx bolts you mention at 17:10? I seem to have misplaced mine
Sal Rocco Check from realoem for example: www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/showparts?id=CB31-EUR-11-1993-E36-BMW-325i&diagId=11_6082
Hey Pazi, I’m currently timing my m50nv and having some trouble. When putting on the first exhaust cam gear, are the holes on the way to the left? Or in the middle?
New Chan will be middle old chain will be to left
Hey great video Pali it helps a lot . I have a m50b25 non vanos in my car and want to add a turbo for low boost less than .7 bar or 10psi. Can I swap the ecu with ms41 and use that to tune? I'm trying to be cheap as possible and stretch my money with this build. Thank you.
swapping ms41 to nonvanos engine is quite complicated. I wouldn't do it as a beginner. Swapping ms41 to vanos engine is easier because you only need to swap the wiring harness and all the sensors to make it work.
Ok I will try something else. How about the Kdfi 1.4? Is it possible to tune myself or have someone help with the tune using Kdfi?
Depends how much you want to commit to it. You can do it yourself but learning even the basics of tuning can take up to year of self learning, and solving all kinds of problems. And then more time to really know what you are doing. So if you just want to get the engine working fast, find someone to tune it for you.
Hey were did you make your cams, and how much they cost?
Nice vids, keep it coming
Thanks! It's old Finnish shop that made those. 180€ per cam.
How much lift do you have on cyl6, when the engine is at tdc?
Didn't check but the cam-specs say that in stock timing marks the intake should be 1.2mm open and exhaust 1mm open at TDC.
Hello mate,I am building a similar project of yours on M50tu25 and i like to use Holset turbo but i dont know which one,where to buy it and if it is original.My target is about 450hp. Can you help??? Thank you in advance.
Paoapo13 Hi! HX35 with 12cm2 exhaust housing is perfect for that. If you don't know local dealer, you can find those from eBay.
Hey Pazi, Where did you buy that timing chain kit? How much did it cost?
From eBay. Here is the lower set: www.ebay.de/itm/FEBI-Steuerkettensatz-30409-/361501458562?hash=item542b2a8082:g:QW8AAOSwo6lWIEoC
And for the upper chain: www.ebay.de/itm/FEBI-Steuerkettensatz-30331-/361608115755?hash=item543185f62b:g:eo0AAOSwYHxWH6hQ
And remember if you have m52 or m50 with newer lower timing chain design, you will need FEBI BILSTEIN set 30410 instead of that 30409.
what is a safe rpm limit on these engines ? concerning valve float ?
mitchiegxxr350 7000. But people have revved these to almost 8000 without problems. But you can bang 7000 rev limiter all day long.
@pazi88 How come you did not deck the block and O ring the head if you used the Athena gasket? Did it seal ok?
Deck was straight so no need to deck it. And what you mean by O-ringing the head? And yes it has hold fine.
@@pazi88 Sorry I meant groove the block for the O rings to sit in? Or am I thinking of a different type of gasket setup? Love the videos, keep them going!
@@mattxr6t That gasget type doesn't require grooves in the block. It has three sharp rings for the head which sink deep to soft aluminium when head is torqued down.
Pazi you are GOD of m50/52 :D
All what you doing is great. Can you answer me? Will stock m50b25nv without open, stock CR:10.0 OEM headbolts etc. hold HX35 0,5bar for long time on stock ECU just chip? Or headgasket, headbolts are needed?
And how it´s with rear suspension/subframe? My axles still breaks. I saw a lot of people use e34 M5 rear. How much torque can stock e30 last? And what axles you have got?
Thanks but there is people that know lot more than me about these engines :D They just don't share their information.. Yes the stock engine will work like that for long time if the tune is right. For stock ECU you need to get a set which includes injectors, MAF and tune for turbo use. Like this: www.trmtuning.com/product/e36-obd1-turbo-tuning-package/ I know that isn't cheap but the good tune is the only thing keeping the engine alive. Some random chip won't do that. And by brown e30 has stock 325i rear axle. Haven't broke a thing in it. This white one has e34 525i m50 rear axle which is basically same as the m5 rear axle. The axles and diff are just smaller.
As you said. They don´t share information..
I thing that MAF + injectors are too expensive for stock. Better is put ECUMASTER DET3 or some cheap piggy back ecu or StandAlone. I was thinking about just injectors and resistor(zener diode) on MAF + good chip.
Now I am N/A. For me the hardest thing is exhaust manifold to start turbo conversion. I have HX35 16cm and I don´t know decide between manifold like you made from water pipes 6-into-1 or simpler manifolds like this: goo.gl/Y860TW
Can you help me?
Change the engine run with ms41 from m52 and tune it by yourself :D it's the cheapest way. Don't use those piggy bags. Standalone is much better.
If your turbo has divided t3 flange that simpler one is better because it keeps the 1-2-3 cylinders divided from 4-5-6 cylinders. And that simpler one doesn't flow as much our version but that isn't very important with turbo manifolds. It makes much more difference in N/A engines or much higher HP turbo engines.
Hey pazi, where do you get your HG athena from? Dealer or some website?
Thanks
azaza808 server.pure-pf.com/webshop2/en/cooperring-head-gaskets-bmw/821-cooperring-head-gasket-m50-m52-84-8450mm-bore.html
thanks! keep up the videos cuz we like them alot!
Why are you ditch'd the vanos? I'm just curious.
88Sam8888 This engine never had vanos in it.
Oh, i see! The brown one has the vanos. It would be a nice upgrade although. I wonder if maybe the reground cams would hit the pistons because of vanos.
hey mate, where did you get the regrind cams? did they copy other bmw/performance cams or custom grind them? no one in Australia does custom, they can only copy :(
Chris Starr Those are locally made in Finland. I think those are custom ones. Not copied. The specs are maximum ones so that the stock lifters without modufication can be used.
Why copied is not good ? And I bet there is someone that makes custom cams :D
didyliduu Problem is that you have to have some cams to copy from.
Do they ship internationally? are those specs specifically for your turbo engine? i am building an NA E85 M52 3.0lt.
Chris Starr No they don't. It's old school guy and he only answers to phone. No website :D But I have spare set of m52 vanos cams. I could get those regrind and sell for you, if you really need a set.
hello pazi you are making one of best youtube video with info i want to ask you iam doing stroiker from m52b28 single vanos engine and iam not sure about connection rods the first thing my is finish the full engine rebuild all gaskets seals and staff like than and i put m54b30 cran and intake cam but not sure about conrods can you answer me thanks
i can leave the stock ones or put m54b30 conrods
You can use stock ones also.
than whats the differences m54b30 and mine m52b28?
irreplaceable bmw The m54 connecting rods are thinner and lighter.
thank you a lot man !!!
How is the song at 22:22 called?
Βαιος Καλιακουδας Cheek - Sokka irti ua-cam.com/video/tG8XpMDbHGM/v-deo.html
pazi88 thnx
What cam tray are you using for m54b30 cam ? M50 cam tray or m54?
I'm using the m50 cam tray. Oh wait you mean in my e30 with m54b30 cam. In that I use the stock m52 cam tray.
pazi88 thanks ! I put the m54b30 cam in m50 cam tray and the cam has some markings that touch the tray and wont spin ..
Yeah there is some slight differences in the m50 cam trays. Some work, some don't. If not people have taken some stuff of the cam tray or swapped in m54/m52 can tray.
pazi88 now i'm taking material off m50 cam tray . If it doesn't work m54 cam tray works with m50b25nv ?
No you can't fit any other cam tray to non-vanos m50. The lifters and springs are bigger than in m50 with vanos and m52.
Block aluminum or cast iron? Cams m52b25?
Cast iron block. And those cams are non-vanos m50b25 stock cams that have bee regrind.
Vaseliinilla "liimaa" nostimet paikalleen?
Aabohax Joo ois ollu yks vaihtoehto, mutten varautunut ollenkaan koko hommaan, niin ei ollut sopivaa vaseliinia hallilla.
pazi88 toisaalta ei siinä oo mitään motorsporttis jos tyäkalut ja tarvikkeet löytys aina
Joo monesti joutuu aina soveltaan, kun ei ole oikeista työkaluja olemassa. Mulla on yks laatikko täynnä random itse hitsattuja ja rälläköityjä työkaluja eri tarkoituksiin. Muistaakseni 1.8T audin turbon irroitukseenkin tarvi erikois hylsyn jokaiselle kolmesta pultista :D
Koskas uutta videota? Eikö siitä vielä hyvä saada.
Justchaos Menee vielä jonkin aikaa et tulee uus video. Joku ms41 säätövideo varmaan tulee eka kuhan joutasin editoimaan.
Miksette kasanneet moottoria valmiiksi pukissa ja sitten laskeneet koko settiä paikalleen, kansineen pakosarjoineen päivineen?
Jani Aarrekivi Se on niin tiukka sovitus, että saa kenkälusikalla vääntää paikalleen ja tahtoo väkisellä naarmuuntua ja mennä lommolle paikat. Pois vielä tulee ok, mut takaisin laitto on niin tympiä et mieluummin tekee noin.
100nm in just one stage? lol guys!
how many hp do you aspect from this build ? :)
Bogdan Ciobanu Between 600 and 700 hp
pazi88 you are incredible ! 600 on athena headgasket e85 and ms4.1 ecu right ?
Bogdan Ciobanu This is running kdfi megasquirt ms2. But I'm doing turbo tune on my friends almost stock m52b28 using ms41. I will put out video about how I did it when it's ready.
i'm watching your videos and doing almost same as you but on a 2l m50 engine :) .cause it's the first time to work on these kind of engines and if i fuck up..it doesn' t cost me too much :)
pazi88 just can't wait until your next video !
Kannattaa koneistuttaa noi nokkapukit auki.. helpottaa pirusti, S50 koneessa ne on vakiona jo auki, nokka lepää muutenki yläpuolta vasten...
Exami Juu niinhän ne vois, mut noiden nokkien kanssa ei pitäs olla tarvetta moiselle.
tarve tulee siinä ku nostajat saa tiputettua paikalleen pukkipaikallaan :)
Exami Aa joo nyt ymmärrän :D
I głowica porysowana.
If you don't tourque the bolts to spec, bying better hardware is absolutely pointless.
But I don't think that this arp stuff is neccessary at all, it's just a safety measure...
Well just a question, is there torque wrench that can actually fit under that exhaust manifold? I may be wrong but that little would be very rare (edit:) if you meant that part...?
No it's not that simple. The stock bolts are stretching type. They are torqued to 40 Nm and then stretched past their permanent deformation point. Which means that no matter how much you tighten then, there won't be more clamping force applied to the head. It's very good way to do that but downside is that there is a limit to the cylinder pressure before the head starts to lift because the the cylinder pressure stretches the bolts. People have tested that it can be problem after 20 PSI of boost and we plan to run little bit more than that. So That's why we need the ARP bolts that are not stretched past their permanent deformation point and do not give up under pressure. Also the ARP bolts have much finer thread pitch than stock bolts which means that the clamping force applied to the head with 90Nm is much higher than 90Nm with stock bolts. So the clamping force is more than stock bolts even with lower torques than in ARP spec. And we don't even need that much. The head gasket that we use sinks in to the head so it is kept in place with less clamping force than normally. With traditional head gaskets you might need that full clamping force from the ARP specified torque to keep the gasket from slipping away because of the cylinder pressure. That's because the clamping force is the only thing keeping the gasket in place.
I haven't seen torque wrench like that. But it's not that critical with the exhaust manifold bolts that you wouldn't even need one.
120 nm has cracked heads, so why would you torq it to that?
Mortalomena u wot m8