BMW M50 vs M52 vs M52TU vs M54
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- Опубліковано 25 січ 2022
- Today we going to do some comparison btw BMW M50, M52, M52TU and M54. In this video we going to do some weight measurements btw the most common 6-six cylinder petrol blocks and cylinder heads made by BMW. Lets see what BMW have improved or worsen during the M5X era, in their engines.
Cylinder Blocks:
M50 - M50B25 Cast Iron
M52 - M52B28 Single Vanos
M52TU - M52B28TU
M54 - M54B30
Cylinder Heads:
M52 - M52B28 Single Vanos
M52TU - M52B28TU
M54 - M54B30
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CRANK - Авто та транспорт
It is awesome to see the maturation of the engineering with BMWs, you can see the history of some things that carry over and other things dont. Awesome video
Thanks Joel!
Great video. I've been looking for something like this for years
Nice job man seriously, this was long over due.
Well done. This is probably the only video in the tube comparing 4 generations of BMW petrol engines. Keep the great uploads, I am always looking forward the next one. Поздрави от Пловдив, желая Ви здраве и усмивки, за другото се купува бензин :)
Мерси подобно :)
This video is a gold mine of information! Thanks for sharing it
Thank you for making this video. Very informative!
Really good video thank you very much. I read in an article that the M54 is better in terms of cooling. This video confirmed it.
Great comparison. It would be interesting if you can make a video where you compare the crank and cams of the different engines.
I don't think is going to be so interesting, but if the demand is high I will see what can I do about it :)
@@crank3646 everything here is about stroke, more power, torque... so i am in too!
A guy told me the capacity change from the stroke is it true that? So it would be lovely to see what happening with the cranks shafts ..!!
Keep it up!
@@01sidiropoulos Yes, M5X engines change their capacity modifying the stroke. m50b25 is 75mm stroke m52b28 is 84 and m54b30 89.6.
The m5Xb25 use 140mm rods, while the B28 uses 135mm rods, the M54b30 uses 135mm.
The only one that breaks this rule is the m5Xb20 which has a smaller bore, smaller valves and camshafts.
@@MachoMostacho the M50B25 Non vanos uses 135mm rods, same length aswel as the b28 and b30 while the M50tüb25 (vanos) engine uses 140mm rods wich also makes the pistons different from one another
Dzięki wielkie za bardzo interesujący odcinek . Pozdrawiam
Great videos all the necessary comparisons 🔥🔥
Excellent video and information, thank you 👍🏽
This view of my M52 engine block is something I will never see but is always good to know info even if I won't be doing any engine work myself.
Thanks for making this video and sharing the knowledge.
Superb video comparison, thanks
Fantastic work, very helpful video!! Keep up the good work 👍
I've been researching possibilities for creating a 3.3-3.4 litre m54b30 using bmw parts where possible and this really helped in ruling out certain engine block and had configurations.
Ps looks like only way is a vacs motorsports 86mm bore resleeve kit and vacs 97mm stroker crank, then looking for appropriate piston & rod combination
Great video. Thanks from Rex in New Zealand.
Really good video mate
Nice and useful videos! 🙏🏻👍
Great explanation guys. thanks for sharing. Have a great weekend, Dutch regards, Nico.
Very good informative video!
Most useful video, i been ever seen.
thank you for doing this
Thank you so much for a great video. Subscribe in the hope that you go into more detail with the M50B25. Just bought an E30 with that engine without any information from the seller.
Very interesting comparison👍
Thanks for the information! 👍
i needed this video thank you boss
finalyyy someone made it!!!
great video! thanks alot!
Great job
My M52B25 single vanos from E36 is made in 11/98 and it is with sleeves and damper crankshaft pulley. Its crank senson reads from flywheel.
Thanks mate for a great education on the BMW blocks 👏👍⚙️🔧🔩😇
This is great thank you.. helped me out a lot..
Great video I have 3 builds with going same root as you i just hadn't figure out m54 oil pump on m50 yet great tip . Looking forward to seeing the single vanos on double vanos head cause I am doing same with s50 us cams if you selling that m50 block let me know 👍
Thanks! Haha this will be my relic :D
Very good content!!¨Thank you!!
In the u.s. everyone bores out the m50. Puts the m54 rotating assembly inside. The m54 crank is the same part number as a s52b32us. So its a small bore s52 clone. Great for boost. (I believe the rods and wrist pin locations are the same too?) just 84mm vs. The 86mm s52b32us . 87mm is the max you can bore s52b30 / m50 block. In the u.s. we got the m52 iron block. Its also 84mm. You can swap a m54b30 assembly right into a m52b28us (obd2 m50 single vanos, rear crank sensor. 96 to 99 in e36)
Non vanos m50 has different valve size.
Yep, but no one wants M54B30 crankshaft because its not reliable. So 2.8 is fine enough for me :)
Good video. I was wondering if there is a difference in quality between M52TUB28 crank, and a M52B28 non TU crank besides the trigger wheel? This is for M50 stroker and boost. Does it really matter?
Great video
Awesome info thanks
Beautiful!
thank you, interessting video
Браво, добре си го направил
Great Video! Have been looking for a video like this for a long time! Do you have any experience of turbocharging a m52b28, some people say that it's not worth it and that the block will explode, and others say you can run 400hp easily. What do you think?
many people at my work have experiance with turboing m52s, youll be fine, 400 is a good number, decomp,. plate and headbolts is enough, and it wont explode. good luck bud, im gonna turbo my m50 once the rest of the car is sweet!
As far as I know the internals are pretty durable. The biggest problem is that the old Bmw engines have pretty weak head bolts. They are pretty skinny (M10 only) which becomes even more difficult in aluminium blocks in my opinion. There are ways to bore out the threads and upgrade to M11 or even M12 but then you also have to drill cylinder head and even head gasket...
Also the aluminium blocks are kind of sensitive to overheating. Once overheated in the past there is danger of the aluminium getting soft around the threads for the head bolts in the block so that they won't tighten anymore. However I don't know if you can eliminate this by boring out to M11 or bigger...
@@peterm3861 Most popular option is ARP head studs for iron block turbo builds. They're proven to work great without the need to drill and tap the block to M11. Guys with 1000+hp use custom age 625+ arp studs for around $600. You're more likely to throw a rod through the block than lift the head with those studs.
@@aamaramba Yeah in iron blocks some good head studs seem to do the job. I wonder if they would be a good solution for the alloy blocks or if the threads would just rip out. Newer all alloy engines use head bolts of greater diameter and length, that is really some weak point of the M5x engine family unfortunately. At least when boosting.
The oil pump info I been wanting but was not looking for that right now just trying to see what motor I should use 😭 thank you
Nice explain keep up
But i Have questions can you add head gasket m50 on m52 and m54? Or just can you add head gasket m52b28tu on m54b30 because the both have double vanons please reply me and so thanks
Много информативно видео, браво
M52TU and M54 are identical engine blocks, only difference would be the timing chain cover that has the crank sensor on the M52TU and on the M54 is not on the front, but they are interchangable, so block is 100% indentical. I have made a M54B28 engine with 272/272 cams, ported and polished head, going to map and dyno it soon. Hoping for 270bhp. Only reason I went for b28 is shorter stroke, so I can rev it to 7300rpm, unlike the b30 where its 89.6mm and its gonna fall apart after 6800 rpm and tear apart the whole oil pump shaft and chain.
I was really thinking to try to make M52/54 with 300 hp, with cams like this + higher compression pistons and ITBs. But as usual, when you start doing your math, you are always going to say to yourself, just go with S54.
Or put a turbo on it. 😛
@@michaelblacktree Had a SC, removed it and sold it, prefer NA I6. If i want power would swap a N54/B58 and go for 600 easily.
@@UndeadCrook Do not polish and port the M54 head, you can't do better than stock. This is the silliest thing you can do with an M54 head without understanding how the M54 differs from the M50/M52. M50 / M52 are all aimed at reducing the fuel film in the intake, longer intake manifolds, etc. M54, on the contrary, relies on the fuel film as much as possible. The killer feature of the M54 is its excellent low/mid torque. This is achieved by using a fuel film on a specially shaped intake surface. Intake polishing turns m54 into m50 and loses low/mid torque. Yes, you pull out a little more power / traction at the top - but other things being equal, a ported motor will lose to an unported one in all conditions except for the only drag racing, perhaps ..
@@olegbelykh2840 Mine is for track so I have custom 272/272 cams and having the power up top is what i need ;)
M52TU has a better sound output than the rest of the engines and it makes great power too.
the sound output would be nearly identical to the m54...
@@moneyshifters No it's not, the M54 is a 3.0L engine while the M52TU is a 2.5L
@@Ayixlia the m54 came in 3.0, 2.5, 2.2L variants. The M52TU came in 2.5, 2.0, 2.4 and 2.8L arrangements. Hope this helps.
Nice video bro. What about the difference between the 3 versions of the m54? Is it possible to interchange some parts between them, for ex cylinder head?
Im not 100% sure about the head but I believe you can since the m54 in general is the same engine what’s different from the B25 & B30 is the crankshaft,piston and rods they are different but interchangeable I also believe you can interchange b28 or tub28 internals into the b25 and or b30 m54
Very intersed video... i have M50B20stroked 2497cc and used oil pump M52B20 single vanos :)
FYI The so called freeze plugs are not for saving the block They are more correctly called core plugs and are filling holes left by the locating cores used to cast the block internal surfaces The aluminum casting process doesn't usually need them
The Nicasil coating was a market specific feature. So the newer engines having it could be from a different market.
Ще направите ли клип за строук на м52 единиен ванос?
До момента съм сменил входящия колектор с такъв от м50б25 и 2та изходящи от 25ца. Също така съм заменил 2та вала: M54B30 и M50B25nv. Трудно ги открих и намерих кой да ги намести, но за сега съм стигнал до тук. Преди финалното ремапване, какво бихте препоръчали за максимален ефект коне/ускорение на тази атмосферка? колянов вал и бутала какви да са? такива с които няма да има ганг банг на главата
супер обясняваш и много информативно винаги исках да зная колко е по тежък м50 от другите 25кг не е мега голяма разлика
What a legend
8:30 You are right. I have block m52 with single vanos, and it has sleves and also hole for the crank sensor.
Do you sell it :D
@@crank3646 Nahhh, im building 3.0 from it :D
Thanks for the video! Your explanations are very good and it is great to see a fellow bulgarian make such cool informative videos about BMWs.
I'm looking forward to buying my first BMW (i like the e46 the most) and i want to do a NA build without any crazy stroking. I would like to hear your opinion and anyone in the comments as well.
M54B30 or M52B28TU?
I would choose m52b28tu
M52B28TU
@@atnstn why?
@@theylive8256 why?
Thank you 🙏
Great Work thank you. I would love to see the m50b25nv head too.
Is it true that single vanos heads have better flow then non vanos?
as far as I know its the opposite. The NV head has 1mm larger valves, so should have slightly better flow. As well as dual valve springs. So its a little happier with higher RPM
@@NeverEndingBuilds what nv means?
@@EliasRizk53 Non Vanos (no variable valve timing)
Well done. I knew most of it, but still learned heaps.
What engine do i have in my 1999 328i. I know it has the zf 5 speed transmission
@@finessedyawife4915 328i, your probably using the M52B28
this was great information, thanks! is there any advantage to the nikasil coating over sleeves? is it that bad for turbo? i wanted to in future maybe run low boost like 8 psi and maybe 300hp and thought it would be strong at that boost
Nikasil is better, no doubt about it. It provides less friction that the sleeves. 8 psi should be save enough for this engines.
@@crank3646 sounds perfect for me then, probably going to stay NA for now and good enough for a little extra in the future, plus the lightest block. thanks for the reply and videos!
is there a difference in the number of exhaust stud holes? i’ve read that the m52 and maybe the m52tu have slightly less than the m54 which causes issues when installing headers
I had no idea the blocks for the M52 and M54 engines were so light
браво много добро видео!!!!
The M52 single vanos after September 1998 is with backside crankshaft sensor.
And what about difference between M52B28 and M52B25 cylinder blocks alone ? Same stroke and difference is in crankshaft. So in theory I will make my 2.5 to be 2.8 by changing cranksahft and pistons ?
io I think bigger holl better flow .. were good widio . Big respect 👌❤️
amazing
Nikaseal (sic?) was a development I believe by Cosworth for the Ford turbo engine in early 80’s
Engine block on m54b30 and m52tub28 has the same part nr. Valves has the same part nr on m52b28 and m52tub28 but not on m54b30. Cylinder head has the same part nr on m54b30 and m52tub28 but I have seen differences in how they are machined both from remove part that are for casting and how the the inlets are machined. The inlets usally looks much smother on m54.
For the S52 camshaft upgrade of M52b25 single vanos I need the 11311405051 and the 11311405488. Is that correct? And tray, lifters and springs of the M52 I can reuse?
Имам един въпрос възможно ли е на двигател m54 b22 да се сменят бутала и блок от b30 и евентуално по този начин да се дигне обема ?
where is it possible to find a guide on m50b20 oil nozzle install for pistons cooling? would be super usefull
18:50 so I want to know, is it possible to install an M54/M52TU (double vanos) head on an M52 block.
In the states the M52 block is iron and I want to turbo and still have double vanos.
Браво ! Чакам с интерес всяко Ваше видео !
Добре е да има поне един такъв човек :D
Hi, I just want to know if the m54 engine brackets same as m50?
M50 has best sound, M52/TU is most reliable and M54 has the most power.
why ?
M54 hat am wenigsten Leistung 😂
Die haben nie ihre Leistung
@@alexbabtan2395 materials and sizes
M50 is more stronger for boost
Yup i have a 325i 92 coupe nonvanos m50b25. Cold start damm sound is so nice. Its a summer car only drive it sometimes in the summer
what is the best way to get more power in the m52tub28? thank you!
m54b30 intake cam and intake manifold
I got the M52 TÜ would it make any difference if I just put a M54 Cylinderhead and Intake on It?
I got an e46 323i (170Hp m52TU i guess) and im thinking to make an 3.0/3.2l Change.
Is it possible? Maybe with m54b30 crankshaft, connecting rods and pistons?
It Is
Hello, inquire, is there a difference between Crankshaft m50 m52 m54
Cant put two likes 😔. I am planning to build an m50b20tu engine, but can I use m50b20nv block with m50tu/m52 head? Great video again! 👌
You can use NV or single vanos block with NV or single vanos head only. Double vanos block can use only double vanos head
If you’re that deep in the build, just keep your block and add NV pistons. They are beefy compared to the Vanos pistons.
What about the M52 Iron Block? I know you guys didn't really get them in Europe but surely you can get your hands on one!
So, if I wanna boost my car and make a casual 400hp, I wanna go with an M54 because of the stronger oil pump and the sleeved cylinder walls?
Quel et le meilleur bloc moteur alors ?.
Moi je dirais le M52tub28 328i double vanos le bloc n'a pas la même couleur que le M54 ??? Merci de m'éclairer 👍
Please compare the endurance or durability between M50,M52,and M54 engine block
Very simple, m50 is top, m52 and m54
Може ли да се направи 2.6 от 20 ка само със смяна на коляновия вал?
What is the advantage of having a "sleeved cylinder"? (you never told us)
Greetings from Canada.. Great video you did good research... But I found a error in your video and wanted to bring it to your attention so you could add it to the description of the video for anyone interested...How do I know you ask?? Well I just did my oil filter housing on my dual vanos M52 1999 motor... It turns out there are 2 different OIL FILTER HOUSINGS ..Yes technically they do fit all generations BUT ... There is a version (as mine is) that has 2 SENSORS in the housing and the other version that only has 1 SENSOR in the housing.. So in a pinch it would work but you will lose 1 sensor... Again I enjoyed your video take care.. I ENJOY WORKING ON MY COOLANT SYSTEM EVER 6 MONTHS ...LOL.... BEEMER LIFE.
Yep but this is not an issue. Just use a hollow bolt on your Vanos supply hose, and you can add the 2nd sensor there. I will be doing this in my next video actually.
Is the M54 and M50 working with the same pistons
May I ask about transmission compatibilities?
I would like to install a M54 on a 328i and keep my transmission, thanks.
It will fit
Any US spec m52 single vanos has a crank sensor on the rear
Also the US z3 2.8i m52 single vanos is an aluminum block with sleeves. (And a crank sensor at the back)
Everyone knows that US M52 engines are with sleeves, because of your fuel there. But in Europe we don't have that luck, so you are on the lucky side this time :)
how about the camshaft Lift?, there is any difference between m52b28 and m52b28TU?
Thank you very much for all this information. So if I want to build a M52B30 stroker, I have to use original M52 Pistonrings, to not damage the Nikasil, or should I use M52 Pistons with different Rods?
M52 iron block, m54b30 crank, pistons, and rods also b30 intake camshaft
@@tribewu3223 do you know if I can use the m50b30 intake cam on my m50b30nv? Using 413 ecu
@@dikkodikko6262 You are talking about using the M54B30 intake cam for your M50B25nv Stroker? I dont see there any problems, if so there could be space issues with the vanos gear but you can disassemble the vanos gear from the intake cam.
I'm using M54B30 intake cam on my M50B30 with MS41 and using the M50B20nv Intake cam as exhaust cam (B25nv cams are the same but mostly more expensive). Timings for intake cam are normal (using the common BMW Cam-timing tool) and exhaust cam is open 1.0 mm at TDC.
I can highly recommend (rebuild) Vanos on M50B30 with MS41, never felt such a big difference with Vanos on any other M50/M52 engine. Really kicks when it changes timings at mid-RPMs.
@@deepur2362 i was thinking of that route. Do you have any social media platform that i could msg you on?
@@dikkodikko6262 deepur91 @ insta
Hi just would like "Single Valves" vs "Double Valves" definition. Both have 4 valves per cylinder. Thanks for nice info!
it is single/double VANOS which is a varialble valve timing system that provides low end torque
@@svetoslavshano good for top end power aswell.
Single vanos only has vvt on the exhaust cam and double vanos has vvt on both cams.
Прямо таки. "Лет ми спик фром май харт" ))))))))
why did they erase the number of the cylinder block? Or it that a dodgy subject?
Hi how are you can we change m 50 engine into m52 engine without changing any electronics
M52 single vanos were steel lined in 99 this is distinguished by the rear mounted crank sensor
M52 got a technical update in '98 and is now called M52tu, one of the improvements is that it got double VANOS. The other improvement was steel cylinderliners instead of Nikasil coated alu.
M54 has the crank sensor elsewhere? My (supposedly) M54 engine has the crank sensor at the bottom of the block.
How much was the M52tu in weight?
Is the transmission bolt pattern the same for all?
Yes