You can tell how happy Leo was at the end of the conversation. He still doesn't know Santos that well and is still sizing him up. When Santos tells him what he wants to happen he like okay now were talking.
I love that Josh just let them talk and stopped other appointments or meetings. I know we take it for granted, but Josh was BRILLIANT in running the Santos/McGarry campaign.
I would have *REALLY LOVED* to have seen a spin-off of TWW, based on Josh's role as Chief of Staff (and by extension, Donna's role as the First Lady's Chief of Staff). I think Bradley Whitford and Janel Maloney would have knocked that out of the park.
That line was written and shot and aired long before John Spencer died. Chalk it up to "things we say and only learn to regret after a tragedy. It's like the child that screams at a parent, "I wish you were dead!" only to have that parent die shortly thereafter.
This one clip showed the biggest problem in American politics. Most of the job description of a politician is getting re-elected. According to the West Wing, and my own observation bears it out, a president spends 3/4 of his term dealing with re-election. That's why they get so little done and they are all so bound up with big money special interests.
@@darkgable85 Uhm, really? I saw all the documentaries and could nit find anything related..however, how awesome is we still talk about WW huh? Wish Jed would run again today 🙂
I. Learned. *So.* Much. about presidential politics while watching TWW. For instance, it *never* dawned on me that, in all actuality, a presidential term of office is only 18 months or so long, and not 4 years. Leo was right... those last six months of the two-year cycle, either Congress is running for re-election, or the President is running for re-election. I just never stopped to think about that until he pointed it out.
How in the world did all the actors continue once John Spencer passed. He was such a powerful presence in every scene he was in. Rest in peace my friend, your presence will live on forever!
You could really, really, really see and/or feel the shock and despair in the main cast. Everybody from Martin Sheen to Allison Janney to Bradley Whitford to Allison Smith (played Leo's daughter, Mallory) was shattered by Spencer's death. The odd thing is, *Leo's* death didn't happen for another 2-3 months after *John Spencer's* death, so it was almost like reliving it. The grief the cast felt was palpable and *SO* evident in their body language and on their faces. I applaud John Wells, et. al, for letting the cast kinda just run with Spencer's death and letting it all hang out, in terms of emotions and reactions. I mean, yeah, of course they had dialogue to do, but this was their chance to really, really grieve John Spencer's AND Leo's death, and they just ran with it.
@@storyofcory AMEN . if looks can break your heart, and they can, the whole main cast should have gotten an award but then you have to ask, where they REALLY acting, wrestle with THAT one
“The presidency is 18 months”…that actually makes sense…presidential terms should be longer or it will always be a partisan log jam…can’t run shit when you have to run for office every two years…
I rather think it's the congress' 4 year term that is way too short. If congress had the same cycle as the president, you wouldn't have all the wasted time in the middle that muddies the water.
Further evidence of my great paranoid delusion, that the producers terminated Spenser with extreme prejudice to avoid having to do another season, with Vinnick (R) as president.
There are two types of Vice President: •The Senior Advisor •The Successor Leo was the Senior Advisor, Santos was young he didn't need a successor like Bartlett needed with Hoynes/Russell, Leo was the greatest mind in the democratic party and the perfect VP Candidate
@@MoviePolitik Why not? What reasons do you have for saying that. I can only see two that you could possibly have and both do not put you in a good light.
@@robshepherd3782 The first woman President should be an inspiration to future women seeking the office they should have worked hard to get there, not be catapulted and put into the right place at the right time conveniently for them
That's assuming the candidate really chose the running mate. Someone referred to the Gov. Palin nomination to the VP slot. Can we consider that was a party recommendation that the nominee was talked into accepting... A nominee chosen more to make the ticket younger, maybe cause the men in younger demos to vote with their smaller brain... Rather than a VP candidate being selected on qualifications, accomplishments, and strategic importance... like being a politician that's a big name in a state with major electoral implications (Reagan being the Governor of California putting California on the GOP column for instance... Texas gave the US 12 years of the Bush family and now has every politician who serves as Governor of Texas think the White House is their next destination. Or being Governor of Florida... something the last 3 Governors of Florida explored WH runs and the current one probably will do in 12 months...) So the idea that in this model... the nominee's chief of staff basically brokered the VP for the ticket... and the candidate hit the campaign trail and left team building as a "we'll get to that". Not hard to believe... considering I didn't get the impression a first-term senator from Illinois and a career politician from Delaware had much crossover before sharing a presidential ticket in 2008.
I almost wish the show hadn't acknowledged John Spencer's death, and just kept Leo offscreen. After everything, Leo deserved the honour of being Vice President, and to a President who wouldn't treat him the way Bartlett did Hoynes. The show did what it did beautifully, though.
I see your point but the way they honnored John / Leo was as heartbreeating yet beautiful as you can get. just the look on each face when thet learn Leo died , they didnt have to say a word, broke me, that s the kind of honor both John and Leo deserved
I never really bought the idea that Leo was a drag on the ticket and was "a beginner at all this". I get that he's never run for office...but he was an architect of Bartlett's first presidential campaign, which created a meteoric rise in the polls. He knows politics really well, and is seen during the show's run speaking in public many times. This just seemed a bit of a contrivance on the part of the writers to create this (admittedly good) scene.
Members of the sitting administration are often seen as a drag to the electorate. They want a clean break. It’s why Obama convinced Biden not to run in 2016 due to the baggage of his era. I think Gerald Ford is the biggest example of someone who lost due to his historical ties. The problem with Leo running is that he was the architect of the Bartlett administration, which the GOP would use to suggest that Bartlett was still pulling the strings while out of office.
Can’t relate to politics but as someone who has been the second in command and then THE guy. It’s completely different when your the one who has to answer the tough questions on your own. It’s easy to sit back and analyze, much different when the spotlight is on you.
There were a few post-Sorkin contrivances but I don't think this was one of them. We tend to forget how easy it is to know what you're doing when you're watching someone else do it rather than doing it yourself. He knows politics very, very well as the man running things from behind the camera. What he's a novice at is being in front of it
Leo was a strategist. A brilliant political mind who knew how to run a campaign. Knowing how to run a campaign is far different than knowing how to campaign. Leo was a guy who could do everything behind the camera but was not comfortable in front of it.
@@jasonkoch3182 HIs press conference about drug addiction, and particularly his talk in front of the aids of the senators who had known drug issues would run counter to your point - he seemed very comfortable speaking publicly in a powerful way.
Wow....00:55 ish..... really wow........is there a chance they went back and inserted Mr Santos's lines.....to coincide with the scenes in his hotel room....after the fact.......such a great show.....with constant caveats to remind youngsters "this is scripted" but this is how it could work.....mandatory watching all through 6-8th grade....humble opinion
I might be mistaken, but I don't think "You know how to run a country" is the job of a vice-president. It's the job of the WH Chief of Staff. That is why letting Leo be the vice-president is a mistake.
The point is, Santos and Leo bring different things to the ticket; there's a lot of similarities between them and Obama and Biden. Santos is young, charismatic and a skilled campaigner. Leo brings experience. Not just as Chief of Staff, but also as a former Labor Secretary. The other point is that at this point in the series, the Republicans control both houses of Congress. One of the functions of the VP is to serve as President of the Senate. Leo potentially could've wielded a lot of influence over the Senators.
actually no I think it was the PERFECT choice for Leo, at that point. Because the day to day responsibilities of WH Chief Of Staff (at least, a good one) are so overwhelming it's damn near incomprehensible. Especially after the previous heartattack, it would be very unfair to put those sort of expectations on Leo. No, you get the youth that Josh has in the CoS but also having significant experience already, and as the VP Leo doesn't technically have a ton of regular responsibilities, but he's like the perfect bullpen arm you can go to and get guidance just on a more limited, as needed basis.
Which also has the benefit of having the next in line for the presidency be someone who actually knows how the presidency works. Too often these days VP candidates are window dressing, picked for purely political purposes rather than to find the best person to actually take over the job should the need arise.
The job of the CoS is the run the administration. (Technically, since it's a position not created by law, the CoS's job is whatever the president says it is, but managing the administration is the most common). The VP has two jobs-break ties in the Senate, and take over if the President dies. And presidential deaths tend to come quickly: of the eight who have died in office, four of them (Lincoln, Harding, FDR, and JFK) woke up one day with no indication it would be their last day. McKinley lived seven days after being shot, but was recovering before taking a turn for the worse the day before he died. WH Harrison lived a little more than a week after getting sick, and it was five days for Taylor. Only James Garfield lived a substantial length of time after being shot (11 weeks). Given how quickly those transitions typically are, there isn't a lot of time for a VP to get his or her feet under them. And it's not like it's the 19th Century, when the slower pace of things could allow for it. Even by the time of FDR's death, things simply moved too quickly to allow it to happen. I'd go so far as to say it was damn near criminally negligent for Roosevelt to leave Truman so uninformed about what was going on with the war and the economy.
it makes him a party elder and someone to go to for advice because he cant handle the stressors fo the job anymore, so Josh can do msot of it, but then Leo can move in and help when his experience is golden. and in the event of something going wrong you got someone type of thing. but yeah a little
What poor writing. At first glance, you’d think it was Smit’s wooden delivery that killed the show and while you wouldn’t be wrong, it’s the poor writing that’s primarily to blame.
God it’s probably the greatest tragedy in the history of television that we lost John Spencer too early. I love that man in this show.
Ever see the movie The Rock? He was great in that!
You can tell how happy Leo was at the end of the conversation. He still doesn't know Santos that well and is still sizing him up. When Santos tells him what he wants to happen he like okay now were talking.
I loved Josh's response to the question at the end of this scene, "What are they doing?"
"Making plans."
At that very minute it was like Leo truly knew who Santos was all about and Leo was totaly on board
I love that Josh just let them talk and stopped other appointments or meetings. I know we take it for granted, but Josh was BRILLIANT in running the Santos/McGarry campaign.
I would have *REALLY LOVED* to have seen a spin-off of TWW, based on Josh's role as Chief of Staff (and by extension, Donna's role as the First Lady's Chief of Staff). I think Bradley Whitford and Janel Maloney would have knocked that out of the park.
"You want out you'll have to drum up another...heart attack or something" :( Such an unfortunate line
Tuneman1984 He lived for what he did. Being an actor. We all can just hope that we can do what we love.
I completely agree! He poured his heart and soul into this role and it showed.
That line was written and shot and aired long before John Spencer died. Chalk it up to "things we say and only learn to regret after a tragedy. It's like the child that screams at a parent, "I wish you were dead!" only to have that parent die shortly thereafter.
@@hermannmuller7303 I thought this scene was written and shot after he died.
@@hermannmuller7303 That's what "unfortunate" means.
This one clip showed the biggest problem in American politics. Most of the job description of a politician is getting re-elected. According to the West Wing, and my own observation bears it out, a president spends 3/4 of his term dealing with re-election. That's why they get so little done and they are all so bound up with big money special interests.
Exactly. If a sitting president is doing a good job though, they should t have to campaign too much. But they feel like they have to.
John Spencer R.I.P. A brilliant actor, who portrayed Leo McGarry in all his strengths and flaws. WW never recovered from his passing.
Actually, WW would end its run anyway. However, his death changed the outcome of the "election". Vinnick was supposed to win originally.
@@ERYTHROGRAPHOS no there were talks of going to the 8th season before John Spencer died
@@darkgable85 Uhm, really? I saw all the documentaries and could nit find anything related..however, how awesome is we still talk about WW huh? Wish Jed would run again today 🙂
@@ERYTHROGRAPHOS martin sheen said that in a article
@@darkgable85 ahh ok!!
I. Learned. *So.* Much. about presidential politics while watching TWW. For instance, it *never* dawned on me that, in all actuality, a presidential term of office is only 18 months or so long, and not 4 years. Leo was right... those last six months of the two-year cycle, either Congress is running for re-election, or the President is running for re-election. I just never stopped to think about that until he pointed it out.
it s true sometimes the most ..................simple........thing was pointed out to me by Leo. Fiction meets reality is no accendent , it s a gift
The *GREATEST* show in the _HISTORY_ of television.
How in the world did all the actors continue once John Spencer passed. He was such a powerful presence in every scene he was in. Rest in peace my friend, your presence will live on forever!
The show must go on
You could really, really, really see and/or feel the shock and despair in the main cast. Everybody from Martin Sheen to Allison Janney to Bradley Whitford to Allison Smith (played Leo's daughter, Mallory) was shattered by Spencer's death. The odd thing is, *Leo's* death didn't happen for another 2-3 months after *John Spencer's* death, so it was almost like reliving it.
The grief the cast felt was palpable and *SO* evident in their body language and on their faces. I applaud John Wells, et. al, for letting the cast kinda just run with Spencer's death and letting it all hang out, in terms of emotions and reactions. I mean, yeah, of course they had dialogue to do, but this was their chance to really, really grieve John Spencer's AND Leo's death, and they just ran with it.
@@storyofcory AMEN . if looks can break your heart, and they can, the whole main cast should have gotten an award but then you have to ask, where they REALLY acting, wrestle with THAT one
@@MoviePolitikagreed and in John’s honor!
“The presidency is 18 months”…that actually makes sense…presidential terms should be longer or it will always be a partisan log jam…can’t run shit when you have to run for office every two years…
I rather think it's the congress' 4 year term that is way too short.
If congress had the same cycle as the president, you wouldn't have all the wasted time in the middle that muddies the water.
When Leo leans over, you know it's game time. Serious times need serious people
"Youre here because you know how to run a country!" - Santos
Its almost like the writers knew John Spencer was ill...
They did, he also had cancer.
This scene with Leo and Santos needed to be a lot longer. I would love hearing them setting the actual plan out
the GREATEST show in the h i s t o r y of television.
NOT EVEN CLOSE.
@@chuckharner829 agreed. 2nd place could never catch up.
Heart attack joke aside, one of the most classic west wing scenes in the later seasons
"america thinks you're the chaperone and I'm the prom king" Cheney just felt someone walk over his (baboon heart avoided) grave
When he told Leo, he would have to have another heart attack to get out. That’s exactly what he did sadly.
Further evidence of my great paranoid delusion, that the producers terminated Spenser with extreme prejudice to avoid having to do another season, with Vinnick (R) as president.
Leo was definitely happy and he would have made a great Vice President although I love how Josh said the two of them were making plans.
There are two types of Vice President:
•The Senior Advisor
•The Successor
Leo was the Senior Advisor, Santos was young he didn't need a successor like Bartlett needed with Hoynes/Russell, Leo was the greatest mind in the democratic party and the perfect VP Candidate
yes dude well written ty
Is Kamala the right successor for Biden?
Definitely not she's not who you want in a President
@@MoviePolitik Why not? What reasons do you have for saying that.
I can only see two that you could possibly have and both do not put you in a good light.
@@robshepherd3782 The first woman President should be an inspiration to future women seeking the office they should have worked hard to get there, not be catapulted and put into the right place at the right time conveniently for them
Several times there was light banter about Leo having another heart attack in this final season. It is so sad to watch now.
would have been interesting to see how they used his character had he lived till the end of the season.
Isn't this the sort of conversion you have BEFORE you choose your running mate?
Otherwise you end up with govermor Palins
They'd already left it to the end of the convention to choose the Presidential Nominee they had to choose fast
That's assuming the candidate really chose the running mate.
Someone referred to the Gov. Palin nomination to the VP slot.
Can we consider that was a party recommendation that the nominee was talked into accepting...
A nominee chosen more to make the ticket younger, maybe cause the men in younger demos to vote with their smaller brain...
Rather than a VP candidate being selected on qualifications, accomplishments, and strategic importance... like being a politician that's a big name in a state with major electoral implications (Reagan being the Governor of California putting California on the GOP column for instance...
Texas gave the US 12 years of the Bush family and now has every politician who serves as Governor of Texas think the White House is their next destination.
Or being Governor of Florida... something the last 3 Governors of Florida explored WH runs and the current one probably will do in 12 months...)
So the idea that in this model... the nominee's chief of staff basically brokered the VP for the ticket... and the candidate hit the campaign trail and left team building as a "we'll get to that".
Not hard to believe... considering I didn't get the impression a first-term senator from Illinois and a career politician from Delaware had much crossover before sharing a presidential ticket in 2008.
Shame life has a way of messing up plans - RIP John Spencer
I almost wish the show hadn't acknowledged John Spencer's death, and just kept Leo offscreen. After everything, Leo deserved the honour of being Vice President, and to a President who wouldn't treat him the way Bartlett did Hoynes. The show did what it did beautifully, though.
I see your point but the way they honnored John / Leo was as heartbreeating yet beautiful as you can get. just the look on each face when thet learn Leo died , they didnt have to say a word, broke me, that s the kind of honor both John and Leo deserved
I always thought Leo as VP was a stretch too far. It didn't make any sense imo
@wileyjb100
Yes, sadly. Both him and his actor.
Dag-gone, Josh was a smart character.
I never really bought the idea that Leo was a drag on the ticket and was "a beginner at all this". I get that he's never run for office...but he was an architect of Bartlett's first presidential campaign, which created a meteoric rise in the polls. He knows politics really well, and is seen during the show's run speaking in public many times. This just seemed a bit of a contrivance on the part of the writers to create this (admittedly good) scene.
Members of the sitting administration are often seen as a drag to the electorate. They want a clean break. It’s why Obama convinced Biden not to run in 2016 due to the baggage of his era. I think Gerald Ford is the biggest example of someone who lost due to his historical ties. The problem with Leo running is that he was the architect of the Bartlett administration, which the GOP would use to suggest that Bartlett was still pulling the strings while out of office.
Can’t relate to politics but as someone who has been the second in command and then THE guy. It’s completely different when your the one who has to answer the tough questions on your own. It’s easy to sit back and analyze, much different when the spotlight is on you.
There were a few post-Sorkin contrivances but I don't think this was one of them. We tend to forget how easy it is to know what you're doing when you're watching someone else do it rather than doing it yourself. He knows politics very, very well as the man running things from behind the camera. What he's a novice at is being in front of it
Leo was a strategist. A brilliant political mind who knew how to run a campaign. Knowing how to run a campaign is far different than knowing how to campaign. Leo was a guy who could do everything behind the camera but was not comfortable in front of it.
@@jasonkoch3182 HIs press conference about drug addiction, and particularly his talk in front of the aids of the senators who had known drug issues would run counter to your point - he seemed very comfortable speaking publicly in a powerful way.
"If you want out, you're gonna have to drum up another Heart Attack" YEESH That did not age well!!😬
Wow....00:55 ish..... really wow........is there a chance they went back and inserted Mr Santos's lines.....to coincide with the scenes in his hotel room....after the fact.......such a great show.....with constant caveats to remind youngsters "this is scripted" but this is how it could work.....mandatory watching all through 6-8th grade....humble opinion
No, this episode aired before John Spencer's death. Just an unfortunate coincidence.
“Making plans” wow
I might be mistaken, but I don't think "You know how to run a country" is the job of a vice-president. It's the job of the WH Chief of Staff. That is why letting Leo be the vice-president is a mistake.
The point is, Santos and Leo bring different things to the ticket; there's a lot of similarities between them and Obama and Biden. Santos is young, charismatic and a skilled campaigner. Leo brings experience. Not just as Chief of Staff, but also as a former Labor Secretary.
The other point is that at this point in the series, the Republicans control both houses of Congress. One of the functions of the VP is to serve as President of the Senate. Leo potentially could've wielded a lot of influence over the Senators.
actually no I think it was the PERFECT choice for Leo, at that point. Because the day to day responsibilities of WH Chief Of Staff (at least, a good one) are so overwhelming it's damn near incomprehensible. Especially after the previous heartattack, it would be very unfair to put those sort of expectations on Leo. No, you get the youth that Josh has in the CoS but also having significant experience already, and as the VP Leo doesn't technically have a ton of regular responsibilities, but he's like the perfect bullpen arm you can go to and get guidance just on a more limited, as needed basis.
Which also has the benefit of having the next in line for the presidency be someone who actually knows how the presidency works. Too often these days VP candidates are window dressing, picked for purely political purposes rather than to find the best person to actually take over the job should the need arise.
The job of the CoS is the run the administration. (Technically, since it's a position not created by law, the CoS's job is whatever the president says it is, but managing the administration is the most common). The VP has two jobs-break ties in the Senate, and take over if the President dies. And presidential deaths tend to come quickly: of the eight who have died in office, four of them (Lincoln, Harding, FDR, and JFK) woke up one day with no indication it would be their last day. McKinley lived seven days after being shot, but was recovering before taking a turn for the worse the day before he died. WH Harrison lived a little more than a week after getting sick, and it was five days for Taylor. Only James Garfield lived a substantial length of time after being shot (11 weeks).
Given how quickly those transitions typically are, there isn't a lot of time for a VP to get his or her feet under them. And it's not like it's the 19th Century, when the slower pace of things could allow for it. Even by the time of FDR's death, things simply moved too quickly to allow it to happen. I'd go so far as to say it was damn near criminally negligent for Roosevelt to leave Truman so uninformed about what was going on with the war and the economy.
it makes him a party elder and someone to go to for advice because he cant handle the stressors fo the job anymore, so Josh can do msot of it, but then Leo can move in and help when his experience is golden. and in the event of something going wrong you got someone type of thing. but yeah a little
I must say I was a bit disappointed in the last season.
I find I watch more of the shows Mr. Sorkin wrote than the remaining episodes.
like this
drum up another heart attack or something that line didnt age well
What poor writing. At first glance, you’d think it was Smit’s wooden delivery that killed the show and while you wouldn’t be wrong, it’s the poor writing that’s primarily to blame.
"The West Wing" is like pizza and sex--even when it was bad, it was still pretty good. ;)