E-Flite Viper 90mm Maximum Performance Setup / Mixing / High Alpha
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- Опубліковано 7 лип 2024
- I've gotten several requests to explain how my setup enables high/ultra alpha flight, so here we are - a relatively quick overview compared to the F-16 setup video I made. Some principles from the F-16 setup apply here, such as my gear switch being my rate switch. Gear up: 150% rates. Gear down: 70% rates.
Equipment needed:
Spektrum AR8360T Receiver: bit.ly/3QBdgtc
IX20SE: bit.ly/3BI3eBD
IX20: bit.ly/3BQvB0u
IX14: bit.ly/3D1Gg8w
NX10: bit.ly/3Qm6BSR
NX8: bit.ly/3bA4dcA
IX/NX and DX-compatible setup files can be found on my GDrive: drive.google.com/drive/folder...
There is a known bug with Spektrum receivers/radios in the mixing configuration that I briefly covered, such that mixing C to LEL for example mixes C to AX3. It's something they'll hopefully fix. If you look into my mixing and wonder why it appears to be totally arbitrary, this would be why.
Feel free to ask questions and I'll answer what I can.
0:00 Introduction
0:30 Mixing Discussion
1:55 Receiver Discussion
2:35 CG Discussion
3:10 Stall Tendencies
5:10 FCS Mixing
10:48 High Alpha Mixing
10:24 Full Reverse Mixing
14:22 Crow Landing Discussion
17:28 Light Discussion
19:30 Conclusions - Фільми й анімація
Appriciate and enjoy all your vids. Learning alot
I'm glad you're finding them helpful!
Excellent!!!! Thanks so much for this, will try it out.
Anytime, you're very welcome.
I'm so glad that you mentioned that 99% of the time it's pilot are causing the plane to crash. Electronics are even more reliable than when I was flying 72 megahertz. Today's pilots complained of flyaways but I think it's lack of skill. In the 43 years I have been flying RC planes even with the worst technology from the 80s, I've never had a fly away. It was always pilot error.
Most crashes are indeed pilot error.
Can't wait to set up crow and mixes on my Viper 90. Gonna try to emulate what you gout going here. As you mentioned, this plane has a nasty tip stall, hoping crow will smooth that out. Mixing gains with throttle is generous!. Gonna do that on all my planes. Thanks for sharing.
It does have a big issue with asymmetric stalls at lower airspeeds. Definitely something to watch out for. It lands great with or without crow - I'd personally recommend using crow in wind and use standard flaps when it's calmer.
excellent video. Very informative. What is easy for you obviously is not that easy for me. So, I will be watching this video several more times! thank you!
Glad to help, Bob!
Nice and thank friend
Crap, i should have watched this before wasting 2 hours thursday trying to figure out the same problem with my blue box on my 90mm f22. I dropped my buddies crashed viper 90 power system into my f22. After much head scratching and testing out blue boxes from other planes, i figured out the same. I found through using my CC adjustable bec that 5.7 volts is the threshold when the gear sequncer no longer allows for the gear light to come on and the gear turning servo to activate. Anywho, i just found the last viper 90 for sell in kansas in a hobby store in topeka. I plan on using your tips to have some fun.
Looking forward to getting tagged in a post about your high alpha adventures in the Viper!
NICE WORK on all you,re well tested/investigated solutions.....TY for that....... I have a question for you that no one can give me an answer on relative to this model..... do you think the upward swept wing tips are contributing to the nasty stall?
Most likely. Winglets cause wash-in, as opposed to washout, which would produce a much more violent stall.
Jon, as a guide, what do you use as a % of throttle for landing? Do you also have a feel for the speed at with a wing will stall on final?
Hey man. It's all seat of the pants, right? But you tend to get an intuitive feel for when you'll stall. I usually hold 15 to 35% throttle for landing.
Would you recommend trying this with a non-stabilized receiver?
It'll fly fine without one, but you'll want a nose-heavier CG to compensate, especially on windier days.
Great video, he just wondering on the Viper the red beacon on top does that flash like that from the factory or did you do that after the fact, thanks for info
I added a Freewing blue box, AKA the "Freewing multi-function control box" just to power the lights and make them flash. In later videos you'll see that I switched the lights so the red beacon is on the bottom and the white is on top, where they should've been initially.
Jon, Great work. I was going to ask if this setup can work on the Viper 70, and slow it down from coming in hot; but I just read the comments and realized I have receiver / transmitter limitations (6ch RX / DX -7)
Definitely doesn't do much on the 70. We didn't find it worth the effort.
Great. Am buying FMS Viper 90, since i can get pnp version and ar8360t for less money than buying eflite bnf.
I recently received my Viper 90mm and was looking at different setups especially when coming in for the landing. How much throw is needed for crow on the ailerons? Is there a sweet spot or just trial and error on my part?
Max it out as much as possible.
Great video Jon, your stand is perfect for these jets...where could i get one?
Thanks man! I use these: tinyurl.com/FMSStand
So how does the gyro correct when in High alfa, Crow mode? I Believe one needs to set the AR8360T to Flaps with dual ailerons and dual Horizontal stab mode. Do you keep the same gyro rates linked to the throttle. Also Such a setup (Corrections on both ailerons and elevators) is possible with AS3X not the Stabilizers like Hobby Eagle A3 as the output ports and wing type is always hard wired unless one cheats and corrects with just the tailerons.
It doesn't. The gyro is inactive on pitch because you have to pull the stick all the way back. It barely works in roll either because the ailerons are forced up 150%.
@@TwoBrosRC Thankyou. ok so for normal flight AS3X works as normal and the same will hold true for F-16 when ailerons are deployed as flaps ?
Yeah, but I wouldn't use AS3X on the F-16's ailerons. I'd just set it up so that the gyro is only correcting on the stabilators.
Greetings, what does switch b do? Wing normal, high g, high g crow. I used your setup file IX12 on my IX14 and not sure what switch b is doing. Also, thanks for your awesome videos!
It should be covered in the setup guide itself - check over the vid again and let us know on Discord if you have any questions via bit.ly/TBRCDiscord
Can you explain how the servos are plugged into the receiver? I’ve got the same receiver (AR8360T) and TX (ix12). Thanks!
Set it up with the wing and tail type we're using and the channel assign menu will tell you what the expected ports are.
Have you managed to change the color of the iX-12 screen? Or is it just perceived as blue as a result of the camera/video?
IX radios have a dark mode option. That's what you're seeing here.
Hi Jon. I recently got an AR8036T receiver so I can get crow and tailerons for my viper 90. I can’t seem to get safe or AS3X to work because all the channels are used up. I have an NX10 so I should have enough for everything including reverse thrust right? I know you mentioned a programming bug with horizon so is that what is causing the problem? Thanks.
The programming bug is related to the wing and tail type, not to your receiver flight modes. We'd recommend reaching out to Horizon support who might be able to guide you directly on what's happening with your specific radio.
@@TwoBrosRC Thanks Jon. Keep up the good work. I still can’t believe you got the viper to do rolling harriers. Haha.
Do you have a way in which you can trim the nose wheel seperatly from rudder, for example can you assign the trimming for the noswheel on the R knob while still being able to control both rudder and nose wheel with rudder input?
You'd need additional channels for that which isn't covered in this setup. Our other setup guides for models like the Freewing Eurofighter cover this technique.
@@TwoBrosRC Awesome, thank you so much!
Hi Jon ,
You're programming is amazing with what you get the Viper 90 to do. I'm still learning i don't understand flight modes and the flight mode table can you explain how to use the different switches and how to use the flight mode table please explain that sorry for my ignorance . Thankyou for all you do.
Hi Danny, it's easier to ask us on Discord via bit.ly/TBRCDiscord since any replies here will get lost after the first one.
Okay Thankyou
I know how to use the switches its the table and the modes
Thanks for sharing your Tx setup files. Any chance of getting a copy of your Rx settings?
AS3X Gains: 2x sensitivity
Roll: 55%
Pitch: 45%
Yaw: 40%
Gains are adjustable. It uses the FCS mixing to adjust gains that I covered in other setup videos.
@@TwoBrosRC Thnx. If you have the Spektrum USB cable you could export Rx settings to file using the Spektrum Programmer app. Good to have backup copies of both Tx and Rx settings on file. And for sharing.
@@AndWhoIsMakingMovies I'm pretty sure you can't do that with the new receivers unless something changed? I only recall being able to do that with the AR636B.
@@TwoBrosRC Hmm, I did respond but now that is gone. Weird...
Anyhow, The Spektrum Programmer app v3.6 can both import and export settings to/from all the new AS3X Rxs. I have backed up settings from all my unlocked BNF 637TAs this way.
Interesting - thanks for the info!
Hey Jon, I am excited to apply this to my first edf (viper 70mm) as per your recommendation from another comment i made on one of your other vids. Quick question....I have a nx8 which of the 2 setup files should i use on my tx. cheers in advance
The *.SPM should work, but try the *.iSPM and see if the NX will load it. Unfortunately you won't have access to the throttle-based gains with 8 channels, or access to flight modes - so keep this in mind before proceeding.
@@TwoBrosRC oh is that cause its restricted to the ix20?
No, it's because you need eight servo channels and at least two open transmitter channels for relative gains and receiver flight modes.
@@TwoBrosRC I got the AR8360T, so by calculations if i set up crow and tailerons that will leave one channel free (unless i am wrong) so by that aassumption it wont work 😞, unless by channels you mean on the tx end
With an 8ch receiver and transmitter, you're right - it won't work completely. You'll be missing out on flight modes and throttle-based gains. If you can get something like the NX10, you should have all the options you need to work with my setup. Alternatively, you can ditch tailerons in favor of crow so you'll have receiver flight modes.
No idea why UA-cam keeps putting your comments in my spam queue. I have to manually approve everything you've written after your initial post and I can't see it until I do. Sorry about that!
Hey Jon! this is great info, and I'm bringing this comment section back lol! If all your ports are used, how did you get the reverse thrust programmed? I think you mentioned it briefly in the video, but I'm afraid to add anything to a control surface port 😅
Avian ESCs get thrust reverse signals though the throttle port via a serial connection. You set up the channel in the ESC programming.
@Two Brothers Radio Control duh... I knew that. Wow totally over thought that one🤣. This is a great video though. I've got a 1.2 P51 with settings very similar to this and your input about the crow settings are going to make this little bird even more fun. What kind of flight do you recommend full length flaps for?
@@Chuck_theModfather We generally don't use full span flaps for anything but takeoff.
I know this video is a bit older. However do you have a video or know of a good video that sets up the crow on this jet or comparable in detail? I’d much appreciate that as I’m just getting back into rc jets again. This is great stuff! These things just wasn’t there when I was flying last
You're better off asking in our Discord server. You'll get answers much easier that way: bit.ly/TBRCDiscord
@@TwoBrosRC ok I’ll give that a try, Thanks
hi jon
I want to setup my Dynam Hawker hunter with crow as its flaps will slow it down slightly but DO NOT reduce its stall speed, Do you think crow will help resolve this problem (to reduce speed and improve improve stall speed ) ?
Also, aerodynamically speaking , is there a maximum value for the ailerons (deflection,in crow setup) after which using them CAN cause wing tip stall ?
thanks
Hi Paul, it's hard to tell without seeing the model's setup. If you're not using full rates (150%) and full possible deflections, crow might not be doing much at all. Stalls shouldn't be aggravated by using crow - at least not to my level of info on the subject. Crow is meant to help you hold the nose up on approach without experiencing an asymmetric stall as early as you would using a flaps-only configuration. Do you have a video you can send me of you flying and your surface travel settings so I can see what you're up to?
@@TwoBrosRC I am still in the process of finishing the setup of the plane . I will provide you with more info as I fly the plane with different setups.
Thanks for the prompt reply and we’ll touch base soon .
@@fa300ry Sure thing. Another major facet of crow is that it creates a distinct stall zone that separates airflow over the wing into two regions. Ideally, with enough upward aileron movement, you get a stall that forms at the root of the wing (leading to a gentle nose-down) instead of a stall that forms at at the wingtip of one wing which would lead to an asymmetric stall. The key to this is having enough upward aileron movement. You'll likely also have to mix in downward elevator to compensate for that.
@@TwoBrosRC forgot to ask you what servo to connect to what port on the receiver !! Do you have the connections broken down in the tutorials ?
Thanks
@@fa300ry I believe I go over it, but the transmitter files in the description have the info you'll need too.
Why not tie the throttle to gain mix to a Logic switch with the gear button? Or full flaps?
It's tied to flaps these days. I can't exactly go back and update the video.
Thanks . Are you using a gyro aswell?
It's built into the 8360T.
Where’d you get your Engineering degree Jon? As I was watching and listening I was having childhood flashbacks to every conversation I ever had with my dad. (25 year USAF pilot, and a mechanical engineer after service) Even your voice inflections are the same. I feel like I need to take out the trash and mow the lawn after your overview.
90mm after 3 weeks is still in the stand. Setup, reverse thrust and pilot fatigue are done. All that’s left is the crow.
Not normally being as “risk adverse” as my dad, I’m thinking I want to buy an Avian ESC for less expensive/already been damaged and repaired edf. (Elite 70mm Viper, FMS Yak 130, Freewing T-33)
Good stuff as always. This video had that inorganic chemistry class feel to it. Except with the video I could rewind- “What did he say?”, “What did he do?”. How things have changed since the Apprentice and the Dynam Hawksky days. (Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life)
Funny enough, I actually have a BFA in game art & design. 😉 Glad to hear this helped you!
@@TwoBrosRC I’m gonna have to pick and choose wisely which on the 80mm jets to add the Avian 100 amp ESC’s. All the bigger, more expensive jets have the AR-600 series receivers, but watching your video I need the 8 channel Spektrum and of course the 100 amp avain ESC. (I’m thinking the 2 Freewing T-33’s. They get out of the Hangar of Death the most. Easiest 80mm edf to takeoff, fly and land on the market)
Don't add an Avian ESC to Freewing jets without adding a voltage regulator to drop the BEC power to the retracts to 5.5v. You'll burn the retracts out on the 6v BEC power.
@@jeffhenderson934 If you'd like to support what we do, consider picking up the 100a via bit.ly/3PywkGY and the AR8360T via bit.ly/3QBdgtc
Just be careful about the BEC voltage as I mentioned before. A voltage converter from Amazon can help step the 6v down to 5v.
@@TwoBrosRC got a couple of the 100 amp Smart ESC’s on order. As you probably already know, I’m not very smart. (No pun intended) So I’m going to start with two jets that are crash proof. (T-33 USAF & the T-33 German Green) If all goes well, it’ll be a no-brainer to do the same to the 80mm a-10.
I keep forgetting the Eflite 64mm V2 has a Smart ESC. I flew the v-1 so much when I first got into edf’s (destroyed the nose and nose gear to the point where the fuse needs replaced) I forget the v-2 has reverse thrust. With our short, crummy runway what I need is Pilot Fatigue on the 3 channel reverse thrust.
If I don’t have at least one nose gear pin on order from MotionRC or Horizon per month, they send me “Get Well Soon” cards…..
How do you get into the Spektrum Tx software?
Could you clarify what you mean?
I have an NX10, do I need a 12 channel to setup exactly like yours?
Nah, you can do it with a 10ch. You just won't have independent control of the roll gain on the gyro like I do now. All 8 channels will be used for flight surfaces, the ninth for SAFE/AS3X switching (if you desire), and the 10th will be used for relative gains for all three axes.
@@TwoBrosRC awesome! Thank you! I’m assuming I can do the same on the F-18! I’ve got work to do!
@@planes4dayz815 You can have a very similar or identical setup on the F/A-18 from either Freewing or FMS/E-flite, but you'll have to sacrifice the toed-in rudder setup without 10 channels.
I have an AR8360T and am able to import/export using Spektrum Programmer ver 3.6. Any chance you could export your Viper receiver file and share on your Google Drive?
Unfortunately not, we don't own this jet currently. The gain settings are pretty simple to dial in though.
What’s the cheapest max performance setup controller, etc ? Thanks
Not sure I'm following you here, could you clarify?
@@TwoBrosRC What controllers can I look at getting that will work for the safe function ? I have a tx16s will that work ?
Most Spektrum receivers have AS3X and SAFE these days. I'm not sure if a RadioMaster system will let you program them though.
Stalls, in general, have everything to do with angle of attack and not bank angle. When you try to maintain altitude and increase your bank angle, your angle of attack increases, thus increasing the speed at which an airplane will stall. For reference: a 60 degree level (altitude stays the same) turn produces 2g's. Your stall speed is significantly increased in such a turn. Bank angle really doesn't have anything to do with inducing a stall...the elevator does. As far as jets go, the viper is super forgiving. But like any swept wing jet, applying a large does of elevator (loading the wing) or a large shot of rudder (accelerates one wing while slowing the other...bad voodoo in a swept wing plane) will generally cause a departure from controlled flight at or near landing speeds. Lifting the nose to stretch "glide" (Lift the nose = angle of attack increases, which increases lift, which increase drag, which causes the plane to slow down) instead of applying throttle, has been the cause of many tip stalls on final. Just my two cents.
Bank angle absolutely has an effect when you're maintaining the bank with elevator input: www.boldmethod.com/learn-to-fly/aerodynamics/why-does-aircraft-stall-speed-increase-with-bank-angle-aerodynamically-load/
You're still working with AoA but it's working against you because your stall speed exponentially increases as the load factor goes up - as you've noted.
I'm not sure what "forgiving stall" you're calling out here - the Viper has a very strong probability of dropping a wing with increased load factor. I've seen it and experienced it quite often. Fellows like "I Just Got Here" have footage of them dropping a wing in a banked turn without enough airspeed and crashing in a quick spiral. I think you're the only person I've ever met who's mentioned that the Viper has a forgiving stall - anytime a wing drops, that's anything *but* forgiving. A simple nose down is what most people would consider forgiving, not a quick and violent snap which can be impossible to recover from without enough altitude.
@@TwoBrosRC "When your maintaining the bank with the elevator"...The elevator causes the stall not the bank angle. The elevator, and only the elevator, can load an airplane and cause it to stall. If bank angle was the cause of stalls, knife edge flight would not be possible. The airplane would simply get to a critical bank angle and fall out of the sky. Any swept wing airplane, when it stalls, is likely to snap/stall. It is the nature/aerodynamic principles of the swept wing. So my question to you is: Which airplane lands slower. The F-16 or the Viper 90? In my experience the Viper is a relatively easy airplane to fly and land. Approach speeds are not ballistic and as long as you don't lift the nose without power, it does fine. That being said, I could lawn dart mine tomorrow doing exactly that.
I'm pretty sure we both know what I meant by bank angle - shorthand for "holding altitude in a banked turn with elevator".
Which F-16? I've flown the 80mm from FMS/E-flite and I've gotten it to plop on the mains at about 15 MPH with a very strong flare using flaperons.
The Viper isn't hard to fly - all I'm saying is that it does not tolerate exceeding critical AoA if the wings aren't completely level.
Where do you get SMC 5300 batteries?
Not sure what you're specifically asking here.
@@TwoBrosRCFound SMC site. Is the SMC 6200mAh-75C recommended on first out of box use on stock set up?
I am buying viper 90mm, Spektrum nx10se & rx. Happy to use your link to support channel. I just need to know what upgraded 6s batteries are recommended. This great video covered everything except the batteries. Thanks.
Jon, I have a quick question about the Crow mix. Assuming you'd be willing to help, how can I contact you? Thanks!
It's probably easiest to message me here, but you can contact me via email if you look into the "business inquiries" part of my About section in my profile.
Jon I'm having difficulty with the crow mixes. Would you be willing to post a picture of the mixes you have set up for your crow/hi-alpha? My ele to flap works properly as does my ele to Lail but one of the tailerons isn't working. If I could see a screenshot of your mixes I could check my work. Most appreciated!
@@jodymessana6456 Can you load my setup file? It'll be easier than sending screenshots of the mixes. You'll be able to inspect them yourself
@@TwoBrosRC
Absolutely. I have an iX12 so that should work perfectly. Thanks!
@@TwoBrosRC Jon, I know it's a big ask but if you ever have the time/energy if you could share a screenshot of the basic mix required for crow I'd appreciate it. When I tried loading your setup file it didn't work with my iX12 because it downloads from your page as a ".text file" instead of as a traditional "ispm" file. I'm likely missing something but I've banged my head against it and am stuck. Still having the same problem when I try the crow mix where one of my tailerons won't cooperate.
😊😊😊😊😊😊😊👍💯💯💯
Hi Jon,
I follow all your videos and I enjoy them very much !! Keep doing what you are doing 👏👏.
Could you please tell me what are the servos you upgraded in the Viper ?
Also, do you have an instagram account where si can follow you ?
Big thanks from South Florida
Luis
Hi Luis! Thanks for coming along with me on this journey. The servos I'm using can be found via tinyurl.com/B13DLM - if you buy through that link, you can help support the channel at no cost to yourself. I used four in mine - two ailerons, two elevators. You could replace the rudder and the nosewheel too. The flaps don't receive as much aerodynamic stress with how I fly, so I didn't see the point of replacing them. You can find me on IG via instagram.com/5ynaesthesia
Thank you very much for your quick response 👍👍