RadioGunk confirmed recently that, during their 2019-2020-ish Tim Sabean interview, Sabean stated that he (Tim) had sent Artie the termination + severance letter on the day of (day before?) Artie's suicide attempt. They NEVER EVER talk about that publicly, and Howard has never even alluded to it. To this day it's a very slippery "Yeah, they were trying to do the right thing, I dunno what would've happened" evasion, but we have one account from Sabean's own lips.
In Artie's book he describes his behavior in detail during this time. During these last days, on top of the insane drugs, he was carrying alcohol in his sealed "coffee mug" and was sipping on it all thru the show. And disappearing into the bathroom over and over to do even more drugs. For the first time, Howard had to pull him aside and tell him to not interrupt so much during interviews. His hygiene was non existent, showing up un-showered and in the same clothes for days. On this last day, he looked so awful that they just sent him home. Later Tim Sabean called him at home and told him that going to real rehab was now a condition of his employment. In typical addict fashion, Artie swore he'd go "after the holidays". He wanted to spend all Christmas break "having one last extended binge to say goodbye to drugs and get it out of my system", and would kick off the new year by going to rehab. Once Artie no longer had the burden of getting up and going into work every day, he just holed up in his apartment and got even worse. Shortly after that he drank the bleach and stabbed himself. His mother and sister entered the apartment, saw blood everywhere, and found him in his bed on the verge of bleeding to death. For most addicts, this would be the end of the road, and lead to either death or recovery. But not Artie. He's already working on his next book, which will detail all the new horrors that happened after all this. It's mind boggling.
Yeah, Artie is a born loser. Not even mainstream success, or money could convince him to be a normal person. I try not to waste pity on people like Artie, there are many more who deserve it.
As an addict myself I’m a little annoyed at how much privelage he had with money and fame! Try losing everything in nowhere’s land with no credit, no career, no future at all! If I ever try and off myself I’ll be successful. Artie wanted attention
@@jakeharmon8767 I understand what your saying but it's wrong to describe it as privilege. He was a self made kid with complicated problems. To criticize him for not bottoming out financially first and for not actually trying to kill himself but only crying out for help seems strange to me. Are you saying only complete screw ups and failures have the right to empathy? Based on your past as you have described it how can you not have compassion for Artie Lange?
Wrong. Tim pulled Artie aside at the end of the show and told him that he was fired. Howard and Tim had already made the decision. Artie went to a 24 hour rehab by his own choice. He was already fired when he stabbed himself
Alec He laughs because it turns out Artie going to therapy was another one of his bullshit lies. I remember watching a video a few months ago where Artie mentioned how he did lie about that.
@@JimiM89 There was already a big thing about Artie lying about going to therapy on the show again, so it was just an unbelievable thing to bring up but maybe in his drug haze that's a lie that came out.
Artie admits in his book that he would drink on the air. He would pour Smirnoff ice in a Styrofoam cup. Also says he would snort heroin or pills in the bathroom at the radio station. Howard finally got out of denial.
Regardless of how you feel about Howard, he is very smart. He knew exactly what was going on with Artie the whole time. He knew it would be good radio and when Artie had nothing more to give, he wasn't asked back.
Very much this. I think Howard knew nearly the entire time. Some of the off-handed comments he makes back in 2005-2006 ("Hey, are you still with Dana, cause I heard maybe you weren't") ("Hey, did you go home with Dana, cause I heard maybe you didn't") ("Hey, I'm hearing rumors that you were seen on a street corner somewhere") suggest a tongue-in-cheek knowledge, combined with playing dumb on-air, as suggested by his shrink and/or Sirius lawyers. Recall that, the day of Artie's heroin-Subutex admission, Benjy immediately comes running in saying "Hey, I was in the bathroom, I missed it, is Artie on heroin" -- they were all squawking about it offstage for months, if not years.
@@arkansasrazorback6087 You summed it up perfectly. Howard KNEW that Artie’s self-destruction process would make for fascinating, spellbinding radio! Remember all the fun and laughter they got out of listening to the many phone calls Artie made to the station (circa 2005-2006) saying he wouldn’t be able to come to work because he was “sick?” It was obvious that his “illness” was always due to his overconsumption of alcohol &/or drugs.
@@ahcapella The constant playing dumb by Howard was so annoying. "I thought maybe Artie was sleeping because of all the cupcakes he had." "I thought it would be funny if Artie took a nap on the air." Like Sal even said in his own way once, that if Howard took him aside and said "Don't fall asleep on my show again." then maybe Artie wouldn't be enabled.
@@missdee4927 I agree, but it seems as though Howard almost always puts “entertainment value” on the show above _everything,_ including the health & welfare of his employees and Wack Packers.
Artie would NEVER be the same after this. He was fucked up by 2009, but he had aged about 50 years in 2010. Heroin destroyed his life and robbed him of his soul.
Yeah it saddens me that he really went off the rails after this show for like the next decade. In a way, he needed that show to stay straight. It was the only thing that was really keeping him alive.
@@ryansmurda1552 I’m not sure that’s true. Bubba the Love Sponge is hilarious. Dave and Chuck the Freak out of Detroit are killing it too. I’m sure there are others out there.
@M Roberts thats true. There are still some good radio shows, but this day and age, they will never be at the level the Stern show was back in the day. IMO.
What’s really sad is that after this, he was in that dark hole for like the next decade of his life really. It wasn’t only until now that I think he’s actually doing better. There will always be a part of me that sympathizes with Artie. Addiction/depression is a serious thing.
Imagine having the feeling of knowing if maybe you have gone to help your dad he could still he alive (trying to put my self in his shoes) I would honestly be just like him if not worse. Glad the good times are coming for him
all addiction is caused by demons. that's why the 12 step program is a 'spiritual program' like they say. real life literal demons with their own mind, will, and emotions are in people with the one sole intention of destroying people and keeping them from finding our Savior Jesus Christ.
I don't remember but I wish we had a you tube video chronicling the end of Artie . I could really re listen to every show the months leading to his last day
From about the Joe Buck fiasco onwards -- 2009 -- Howard was all done with Artie. This (2009) was the era of "we're going to make fun of your absences and weight, we're going to film you sleeping in the studio, we think you're speaking up and interrupting too often, please ease back and don't talk so much into the microphone," with Tim Sabean running around backstage suggesting rehab all the while. If you go back further -- 2007 'bro fight' -- Artie says something like "Howard, you've never been my friend, we've never had a serious real life conversation off the air," and Howard EXPLODES "Bullshit, just the other day I pulled you aside, man-to-man, and told you I was worried about you, such-and-such (clearly a drug rehab thing)" -- they were pretty fed up with him even back then, but stuck with it another 2+ yrs for appearances. Yeah, Stern is an exploitative dick, but this was a loooong spiral down the chute.
@@jakeyb25 Suuure. 05 Jan 2009, "Howard + Gary try to call into Artie's alleged rehab, eventually Artie calls them (from a hotel, high)" -- 06 Jan 2009, "Fans call in about Artie's sober lies" -- 07 Jan 2009, "Artie talks about his alleged rehab enemas" -- 12 Jan 2009, "Artie claims he's fat because he can't give up both food and drugs, and he gave up drugs" -- "Artie talks about [the made-up] visits to therapists during his on-air session with Dr. Drew" -- 12 May 2009, "Artie discusses trying to masturbate to thoughts of Robin while in rehab" -- 18 May 2009, "Artie's mother + sister confiscated his phone because they can't trust him not to call drug dealers" -- 16 June 2009, "Artie talks about being shot up by a prostitute," "Artie explodes on the Joe Buck Show [while high]" -- 13 Oct 2009, "Artie calls in sick again, staff starts accusing him, Artie snaps that he's taking it one day at a time" -- November 2009 features an entire day of Artie vs. Gary fights, full of drug accusations, "Artie not getting any sleep and making wheezing noises in the microphone," etc. And 13 Oct 2009 was the date when Robin + Fred teamed up on Howard saying "Cmon, man, stop pretending he's out sick, you know what's up." I will grant that there appears to be some spring/summer period -- short-lived -- where everyone backs off of Artie, perhaps as some sort of "you say you're sober, okay, we'll go with that and see" deal. But it doesn't last very long.
Sounds high? You’re a fucking genius. He was all fucked up here. He even said he was drinking smirnoff ice and doing pills during the show. It was just a continuation of the night before. When Artie says “It’s usually three quarters dead” he is slurring terribly
Some of the best memories I have of the Stern show were with Artie. I almost had many an accident on my way to school listening to Artie on the Stern show during those years. I do miss him but the show must go on...
He said in his book that he would snort H until it was time to leave for work then stop and pick up Smirnoff ice alcohol which he would put in a fountain cup.
Absolutely. There were some hits in the following few years. However, after that meeting about getting bigger celebrities, it plummeted. He’s a good interviewer, however there are better ones out there that don’t follow the same line of questioning. He use to push the boundaries and he can still do that with out offending them. He’s soft now. But I’ll never hate because of the years of entertainment. I love Artie beginning from madtv. He was my favourite actor on there. I watched in him everything. Coming on stern and the books, now I know how we was during those times, because I had no idea why he was off madtv.
I remember the last several months of 2009. Artie got progressively quieter until he was practically like Fred. The last real comedy he was doing was his impression of Chaz Bono being the manliest man on the planet. I think Howard started that and Artie went along with it.
lol not a Howard listener are you? Tons of people sat in the chair for one or more shows. educate yourself before you speak and make a fool of yourself again homie
Jackie was better, honestly... He was a less complicated figure, sure. But he was also a good foil for howard and robin. Not only that but he was a fun guy to listen to on the show. His punctuating laugh gave that show life for years
manifestgtr Jackie had the world's most contagious laugh. When he would laugh at Beetlejuice I would lose my shit. Artie was a funnier one liner and all around comedian I think.
Howard constantly pretending like he wasn't renewing his contract every few years, stressing his staff to death so he can negotiate. He's such a disgusting person.
Sounds like Howard had already made up his mind Artie had to go at this point. Even if he hadn't attempted suicide this would have still been his last day.
@Upson Pratt Just like how Artie was arguing over how he didn't get his little 5 grand for spending 20 minuts on a stage and then all he talks about is getting high. Howard should have fired him the 'third' time he fell asleep on the air. He was all about his ego and only came in for the paycheck. How's Artie doing now?
Artie is a fragile human being to begin with, he's a natural addict. He had crippling guilt over his father's long and tortured death, because his dad had asked him if he wanted to come work with him that day and he said no, and if he had been there he'd have been holding the ladder and his dad wouldn't have fallen. He took drugs to try to mask that pain, then turned into an addict who needed more and more, then spiraled out of control. The lesson: deal with your pain head-on without drugs.
@@songname7707 don't get me wrong. I love Artie. I really do! But until he dealt with the guilt of his dad's death he was in "self destruct" mode. I wish him all the best. I know he's turning things around and I really hope he can do it this time. I'm on his side not the addicted side.
i just think it's a really funny clip. i LOVE the brutal honesty and ball-busting exemplified on the stern show. where else would you experience someone nodding out on-air awoken by an air-horn? i love and miss artie and his contribution to the show.
I was born in 93, my mom listened to the show and in 2010 i started listening regularly. I always heard them refer to Artie and for reason i had the impression that he was an asshole, but ive been listening to all of the old stuff and he seems like the nicest guy on the entire staff.
No the real story is Tim Sabean came to Artie after the first break and "asked" him to go home and get some rest...Artie said no i'm here to do my job..he gets worse during the show ..fast forward Artie gets a call at home from Tim again asking him to go to rehab ..Artie agrees and they go on Christmas break and the rest is history..He was never fired..
Tim Sabean himself confirms he fired Artie, and that Artie did the stab-n-bleach stunt within ~24 hrs of Tim firing him. Note that Tim NEVER spoke of this during his Sirius tenure, and only recently gave details during a 2019/2020 RadioGunk session, almost like he was waiting out some 7-year statute of limitations. Howard has never publicly acknowledged Artie’s termination beyond the standard “we told him to go home + try rehab” party line.
eastcoast's chronology is a bit off. He was placed on medical leave by Sirius after this show (12/9/09), and was checked into rehab, but he left early, and THEN attempted suicide about 3 weeks later. In fact, Sirius wanted to send him home before the show was even over. THAT'S how bad a shape he was in. There's an article on examiner.com from 4/3/12 that talks about it in more detail.
That's why. Howard Stern can't have people on the show that are gonna do drugs and stab themselves up. Which is unfortunate because Artie's run was the best Stern show days ever.
In his defense he stabbed himself after he was fired from the show. Literally the day after he was fired. Tim Sabean talked about it. Because no one on Stern ever wanted to bring it up after the incident. And we all know why, the way he was treated in the end is the reason he stabbed himself. He felt worthless. No one tried to really help the guy, they all love making it sound like they tried but they did nothing. Tim was the only one who actually tried, yet he was also the one who ended up having to fire him because of his job title. But it was Howards decision. They should have had him off air for almost the last year of his shows. Yet, because it made great radio, Howard played along with it. As Artie constantly fell asleep on air while hailing out or nodding out. Its too bad. Cause the after affect was the Stern show went downhill and Arties career basically fell right off.
@Lookie Here Nah that shit with Teddy was WAY more than ehat it seemed. Artie wasn't bullshitting. That guy was a leach. And he knew how it looked like he was in the right, because Artie was so fucked up all the time. But the truth could be seen. Teddy used Artie. Like most of Arties "friends".
@@AshtrayAnnie Yea ,well I didnt know that. I thought they broke for vaction, he got fucked up and stabbed himself. I don't think this was his last day ,was it? Seems his last day 50 cent was on and Howard basically just ignored him, kinda told 50 cent to do the same. It was sad. To the point Artie was asking questions and flat being ignored.
Howard never cared for anyone on that show. Notice anyone who left the show has no relationship with Howard anymore. Not one person has Howard reached out to who left the show. What made that show great at its peak was the characters the games the workers and writers. To be honest certain points of the show Howard was hard to listen to got you frustrated. He only cared for Artie as long as Artie was at the show. After Artie left he never spoke to him again. Just shows you how important his co workers really are. Howard changed radio for sure. But he is cold hearted who never cared for anyone but the show. Thought the privilege of just working there was enough. Never cared if you didn’t make a living working there. As long as he got the content from you.
Does he reach out to people that weren't on the show with him? I don't really know much about the guy other than I listened to the show many years ago when he was still on the radio. I do know that some people, (myself included), are just not good at maintaining relationships. I don't reach out to anyone. I definitely love and appreciate the people that were part of my life but I don't have the desire or social ability to talk to them often. Maybe Howard is like that too? Or maybe he is a total dick 😂
love Artie, he sounds mashed here he sounds like jeff the drunk when he struggles to get "usually its 3/4 dead" howard takes tremendous care of himself obviously he wasn't going to tolerate a full blown heroin addict to sit there anymore, he had a great run
we always think we _finally have it figured out,_ don't we? like, even at our very worst, in our minds we're like "yeah, it's bad, but i think i've finally cracked it." Artie at the end just breaks my heart. we're SO delusional sometimes. maybe drug users more than most.
Best book I ever read. His admiration for Howard, and his connection to his father loving Howard is What kept Artie working there for a decade. After this, he disrespected Nick, Anthony C, and just didn't gaf anymore.
I saw a video of this , fiddy cent was there that day and I can say Artie was even more messed up looking than he sounded in this video, he looked totally twisted.
Howard Stern is no liberal, he was a big Ron Paul supporter last year along with other celebrities such as Clint Eastwood and Mark Cuban. Ron Paul is probably one of the most conservative presidential candidates we ever had here in America.
Artie was fired. He received a termination letter, and then attempted suicide. This is why he’s never appeared back on the show and never will. And Artie can’t discuss it because he signed a blanket non disclosure agreement and could be sued into oblivion if he ever discussed it.
First of all, Artie did not leave the show. He was fired. Secondly, Howard cut off Artie because at this point in Artie's life, the drugs affected his speech. It took him a long time to formulate a sentence without saying uhhhhh...uhmmmmm before every word. Howard no longer had the patience with Artie's addiction. He put with it for years.
Danimal300zx has it. Sabean’s RadioGunk interview alludes to his “firing Artie,” Artie’s suicide attempt roughly 24-48 hrs after being fired - NOT the December 2009 last day on air, as publicly believed - and, worst of all, Sabean sitting in the hospital room when Artie regained consciousness, angry and disgusted at the guy who’d terminated him not three days prior. Shudder.
To be fair Artie always had a problem with saying “uhh…uhhhh” before every sentence. I remember when he was arguing with Gary about the fake piss story Gary made fun of his stammering before sentences lol.
Stern says he wants Artie Lange out, then tries to convince him to remain for another year. "I'm worried about you". Worried about talent leaving his show.
Anyone have this whole show? According to his book he was “ossified” and was asked to leave. I would love to hear the show in its entirety. There’s a 50 cent interview around but you barely see Artie...
Haven't listened in years, but I worshipped Howard back in the day with Jackie and Artie. Now I see he's got a crew of younger, balding bros for his bits...just not into it.
they should have got Jim Breuer after Artie was done. Jim was doing great when Howard was trying out comics for the Jackie spot. Could've seen Jim slid in nicely after Artie.
Supposedly they DID approach Breuer. This only came out a long time later on Opie & Anthony. Jim said something very roundabout to Artie about "they start whispering in your ear... they start whispering...," which now seems to directly reference his own situation at the time. He seems to have turned them down, perhaps for family + sick-dad reasons.
It’s messed up how Howard enabled Artie and they treated him, especially since he went home and tried to kill himself. Howard and his personal crew exploited all of the staff and “freaks” until they were valuable and then just dismiss them from the show.
Artie was such a sweet guy. Even at his worst (haranguing ppl with homophobic slurs) you could see he was a man with a giant heart, who didn't mean what he said when having an angry outburst, and would always feel horribly guilty after. Genuinely feel sorry for him, and hope he's worked out his demons to some extent. I think his lack of public profile at the moment is a good sign, that he's staying out of trouble.
Artie will probably outlive all of us. How he's still alive after all this time with all of his abusing his body/addictions is literally some kind of a miracle. God Bless'em.
It’s not Howard fault but he did enable him. Artie was getting progressively worse for a long time. Everyone knew it. Instead of straight up telling Artie that he needed to get to rehab and clean up or he’s fired, he treated rehab like it was just a suggestion or option. It wasn’t until the very end, when Artie was at his absolute worst, that rehab was more of an ultimatum and he was asked to take some time off but by that point Artie was so far gone that the only thing keeping him somewhat sane and relatively ok was the fact that he had to go to work. Should have given him the ultimatum long before this. At a time when Artie actually felt like he had something to lose. People may think it’s not Howard’s job to do that but think about it, the fight with Teddy was April 2008. That’s when it was clear that Artie needed help. In February 2009 was when Artie had the fight with Gary and EVERYONE on the staff knew he was on drugs. It wasn’t until 10 months later that Artie had his last appearance on the show. It shouldn’t have been dealt with long before that.
I don't think many people with functioning brains are blaming Howard. Most of us are just upset because the Artie era was the most entertaining and it's all gone now
Yeah this is eerie... Sad... I miss Artie so much! I stopped listening after he left, part coincidence, partly because after they revealed what happened, I just felt sick.
Do you know how many days he missed because of his addiction? He called in sick like 20-30 times and was late dozens more times than that. Heroin addiction is a bitch, it becomes your only love in the world, and he made a lot of really embarrassing decisions because of it. Not faulting him, but that's probably why. Rumor has it Stern was gonna fire him anyway, because of all of the aforementioned. He never saw the suicide attempt coming, though. Not from a mile away.
I don't know. Would you rather have a genius miss 20-30 times or an average person that's never late. The show has been on a ridiculous decline ever since he left. Showbusiness is a weird thing
Yeah idk why everyone thinks Artie just left. He was pushed out very subtley, and im sure theres soms stuff behind the curtain that was said well never know untill someone on their deathbed writes a book. AKA Howard in about 15 years.
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This was Howard's way of Telling Artie that he's out
RadioGunk confirmed recently that, during their 2019-2020-ish Tim Sabean interview, Sabean stated that he (Tim) had sent Artie the termination + severance letter on the day of (day before?) Artie's suicide attempt. They NEVER EVER talk about that publicly, and Howard has never even alluded to it. To this day it's a very slippery "Yeah, they were trying to do the right thing, I dunno what would've happened" evasion, but we have one account from Sabean's own lips.
So subtle 😂😂
@Stewie Boy No wonder Howard won't give him an interview or proper final send off.. How unprofessional.
Artie, “the therapy taught me not to care about the standup” 🤦
I think Artie showing up to work on heroin was Artie telling Howard he was on his way out.
In Artie's book he describes his behavior in detail during this time. During these last days, on top of the insane drugs, he was carrying alcohol in his sealed "coffee mug" and was sipping on it all thru the show. And disappearing into the bathroom over and over to do even more drugs. For the first time, Howard had to pull him aside and tell him to not interrupt so much during interviews. His hygiene was non existent, showing up un-showered and in the same clothes for days. On this last day, he looked so awful that they just sent him home.
Later Tim Sabean called him at home and told him that going to real rehab was now a condition of his employment. In typical addict fashion, Artie swore he'd go "after the holidays". He wanted to spend all Christmas break "having one last extended binge to say goodbye to drugs and get it out of my system", and would kick off the new year by going to rehab.
Once Artie no longer had the burden of getting up and going into work every day, he just holed up in his apartment and got even worse. Shortly after that he drank the bleach and stabbed himself. His mother and sister entered the apartment, saw blood everywhere, and found him in his bed on the verge of bleeding to death. For most addicts, this would be the end of the road, and lead to either death or recovery. But not Artie. He's already working on his next book, which will detail all the new horrors that happened after all this. It's mind boggling.
Yeah, Artie is a born loser. Not even mainstream success, or money could convince him to be a normal person. I try not to waste pity on people like Artie, there are many more who deserve it.
As an addict myself I’m a little annoyed at how much privelage he had with money and fame! Try losing everything in nowhere’s land with no credit, no career, no future at all! If I ever try and off myself I’ll be successful. Artie wanted attention
@@jakeharmon8767 I understand what your saying but it's wrong to describe it as privilege. He was a self made kid with complicated problems. To criticize him for not bottoming out financially first and for not actually trying to kill himself but only crying out for help seems strange to me. Are you saying only complete screw ups and failures have the right to empathy? Based on your past as you have described it how can you not have compassion for Artie Lange?
Wrong. Tim pulled Artie aside at the end of the show and told him that he was fired. Howard and Tim had already made the decision. Artie went to a 24 hour rehab by his own choice. He was already fired when he stabbed himself
Artie is such a teenage girl. He didn’t try to kill himself. If he wanted to kill himself he could have bought a shotgun.
Even Artie's voice is burnt out. Wow, very eerie indeed.
Yea it doesnt even sound like Artie
The only one who cared about Artie was his dealer.
"I've gotten to a point in therapy-"
*Howard just laughs.*
Oof.
Alec He laughs because it turns out Artie going to therapy was another one of his bullshit lies. I remember watching a video a few months ago where Artie mentioned how he did lie about that.
He was, ehhh being deceptive there.
@@JimiM89 There was already a big thing about Artie lying about going to therapy on the show again, so it was just an unbelievable thing to bring up but maybe in his drug haze that's a lie that came out.
"don't worry about me" few years later...his nose is gone...
It was actually like a decade later... just saying
Artie admits in his book that he would drink on the air. He would pour Smirnoff ice in a Styrofoam cup. Also says he would snort heroin or pills in the bathroom at the radio station. Howard finally got out of denial.
Regardless of how you feel about Howard, he is very smart. He knew exactly what was going on with Artie the whole time. He knew it would be good radio and when Artie had nothing more to give, he wasn't asked back.
Very much this. I think Howard knew nearly the entire time. Some of the off-handed comments he makes back in 2005-2006 ("Hey, are you still with Dana, cause I heard maybe you weren't") ("Hey, did you go home with Dana, cause I heard maybe you didn't") ("Hey, I'm hearing rumors that you were seen on a street corner somewhere") suggest a tongue-in-cheek knowledge, combined with playing dumb on-air, as suggested by his shrink and/or Sirius lawyers.
Recall that, the day of Artie's heroin-Subutex admission, Benjy immediately comes running in saying "Hey, I was in the bathroom, I missed it, is Artie on heroin" -- they were all squawking about it offstage for months, if not years.
@@arkansasrazorback6087 You summed it up perfectly. Howard KNEW that Artie’s self-destruction process would make for fascinating, spellbinding radio! Remember all the fun and laughter they got out of listening to the many phone calls Artie made to the station (circa 2005-2006) saying he wouldn’t be able to come to work because he was “sick?” It was obvious that his “illness” was always due to his overconsumption of alcohol &/or drugs.
@@ahcapella The constant playing dumb by Howard was so annoying. "I thought maybe Artie was sleeping because of all the cupcakes he had." "I thought it would be funny if Artie took a nap on the air." Like Sal even said in his own way once, that if Howard took him aside and said "Don't fall asleep on my show again." then maybe Artie wouldn't be enabled.
@@missdee4927 I agree, but it seems as though Howard almost always puts “entertainment value” on the show above _everything,_ including the health & welfare of his employees and Wack Packers.
Howard pretending hes quiting for decades.
Artie would NEVER be the same after this. He was fucked up by 2009, but he had aged about 50 years in 2010. Heroin destroyed his life and robbed him of his soul.
He's doing better now. Thank god.
@@TehUltimateSnake And then 10 years later he's looking better than he did at 30.
Yeah it saddens me that he really went off the rails after this show for like the next decade. In a way, he needed that show to stay straight. It was the only thing that was really keeping him alive.
@@NillKitty you must be as high as him
He's ultra instinct now
Best days ever with Artie and Howard. Golden era of radio gone forever?
Artie could be a bit much at times, but he and Howard made truly riveting radio together.
Yes, gone. Now, with woke cancel culture, we will never have another show like this. It's sad, really.
@@ryansmurda1552 I’m not sure that’s true. Bubba the Love Sponge is hilarious. Dave and Chuck the Freak out of Detroit are killing it too. I’m sure there are others out there.
@M Roberts thats true. There are still some good radio shows, but this day and age, they will never be at the level the Stern show was back in the day. IMO.
Artie was great but too obnoxious at times and hard to listen to but the early days were great
"I just burned myself out”
He said that right when I read this
I want the full show on this date so bad.
I know you commented this a year ago but 2003-2010 full shows are on the Internet Archive
@@MummyNapkin yes they are and its awesome to go back a listen to the best radio show of all time. How the times have changed
David C where exactly do I find these shows?
Anyone? Where's this internet archive ????
Liqu1d16 I have SiriusXM, it has far from the whole archive available. Far far from
we miss you artie :(
+YUWHACK Agreed!
+Jim B. The people who miss him fuck face
What’s really sad is that after this, he was in that dark hole for like the next decade of his life really. It wasn’t only until now that I think he’s actually doing better. There will always be a part of me that sympathizes with Artie. Addiction/depression is a serious thing.
Imagine having the feeling of knowing if maybe you have gone to help your dad he could still he alive (trying to put my self in his shoes) I would honestly be just like him if not worse. Glad the good times are coming for him
all addiction is caused by demons. that's why the 12 step program is a 'spiritual program' like they say. real life literal demons with their own mind, will, and emotions are in people with the one sole intention of destroying people and keeping them from finding our Savior Jesus Christ.
Artie will be dead soon. There's no way with all that abuse he'll last much longer, not even if he cleans up.
A decade of “finding yourself”, then come back into the light. Epic
Demons
The saddest day of his life.
HS is genuinely pissed at Artie here, remember that leading up to this he has been visibly high on the air etc.
I don't remember but I wish we had a you tube video chronicling the end of Artie . I could really re listen to every show the months leading to his last day
enkadu007 lol so true
From about the Joe Buck fiasco onwards -- 2009 -- Howard was all done with Artie. This (2009) was the era of "we're going to make fun of your absences and weight, we're going to film you sleeping in the studio, we think you're speaking up and interrupting too often, please ease back and don't talk so much into the microphone," with Tim Sabean running around backstage suggesting rehab all the while.
If you go back further -- 2007 'bro fight' -- Artie says something like "Howard, you've never been my friend, we've never had a serious real life conversation off the air," and Howard EXPLODES "Bullshit, just the other day I pulled you aside, man-to-man, and told you I was worried about you, such-and-such (clearly a drug rehab thing)" -- they were pretty fed up with him even back then, but stuck with it another 2+ yrs for appearances. Yeah, Stern is an exploitative dick, but this was a loooong spiral down the chute.
@@jakeyb25 Suuure. 05 Jan 2009, "Howard + Gary try to call into Artie's alleged rehab, eventually Artie calls them (from a hotel, high)" -- 06 Jan 2009, "Fans call in about Artie's sober lies" -- 07 Jan 2009, "Artie talks about his alleged rehab enemas" -- 12 Jan 2009, "Artie claims he's fat because he can't give up both food and drugs, and he gave up drugs" -- "Artie talks about [the made-up] visits to therapists during his on-air session with Dr. Drew" -- 12 May 2009, "Artie discusses trying to masturbate to thoughts of Robin while in rehab" -- 18 May 2009, "Artie's mother + sister confiscated his phone because they can't trust him not to call drug dealers" -- 16 June 2009, "Artie talks about being shot up by a prostitute," "Artie explodes on the Joe Buck Show [while high]" -- 13 Oct 2009, "Artie calls in sick again, staff starts accusing him, Artie snaps that he's taking it one day at a time" -- November 2009 features an entire day of Artie vs. Gary fights, full of drug accusations, "Artie not getting any sleep and making wheezing noises in the microphone," etc. And 13 Oct 2009 was the date when Robin + Fred teamed up on Howard saying "Cmon, man, stop pretending he's out sick, you know what's up."
I will grant that there appears to be some spring/summer period -- short-lived -- where everyone backs off of Artie, perhaps as some sort of "you say you're sober, okay, we'll go with that and see" deal. But it doesn't last very long.
@@sskoog I mean in terms of him sleeping in studio type bits not in terms of discussion of his drug issues.
Artie even sounds high.
yeah that's the point of the clip..get it?
Because he is.
You’re kidding, Carl. What makes you think that?
Sounds high? You’re a fucking genius. He was all fucked up here. He even said he was drinking smirnoff ice and doing pills during the show. It was just a continuation of the night before. When Artie says “It’s usually three quarters dead” he is slurring terribly
Some of the best memories I have of the Stern show were with Artie. I almost had many an accident on my way to school listening to Artie on the Stern show during those years. I do miss him but the show must go on...
The show should've ended back when you posted that comment tbh.
these people probably have nothing to do with stern anymore because he’s such a clown now.
Sounds really high. Almost like talking to someone half awake.
He said in his book that he would snort H until it was time to leave for work then stop and pick up Smirnoff ice alcohol which he would put in a fountain cup.
Cause he was up all night fucked up and went to work
The day the stern show died
Literally makes no sense. Howard made his career and Howard will end his career. People will come and go. Howard is king.
@@JamesVignaleIIong like the show was still funny til 2014 why bro hating 😂😂😂
Absolutely. There were some hits in the following few years. However, after that meeting about getting bigger celebrities, it plummeted. He’s a good interviewer, however there are better ones out there that don’t follow the same line of questioning. He use to push the boundaries and he can still do that with out offending them. He’s soft now. But I’ll never hate because of the years of entertainment. I love Artie beginning from madtv. He was my favourite actor on there. I watched in him everything. Coming on stern and the books, now I know how we was during those times, because I had no idea why he was off madtv.
The stern show died when Howard hired the hack pack (Sal, Richard, Shuli, Dan the song parody man, etc.)
The show died in 2001.
This breaks my heart honestly
You're a liar.
For the love of God where is the complete show?! Yeah, Artie wasn't even trying to hide anything at this point.
I remember the last several months of 2009. Artie got progressively quieter until he was practically like Fred. The last real comedy he was doing was his impression of Chaz Bono being the manliest man on the planet. I think Howard started that and Artie went along with it.
No one was better than Artie in that chair.
marc80s only because he was the only one in it dumbass
lol not a Howard listener are you? Tons of people sat in the chair for one or more shows. educate yourself before you speak and make a fool of yourself again homie
Jackie was better, honestly...
He was a less complicated figure, sure. But he was also a good foil for howard and robin. Not only that but he was a fun guy to listen to on the show. His punctuating laugh gave that show life for years
manifestgtr Jackie had the world's most contagious laugh. When he would laugh at Beetlejuice I would lose my shit. Artie was a funnier one liner and all around comedian I think.
It's not the same chair Jackie sat in. Jackie wrote jokes. Artie never did!!!!!!!!
The way he says "I'll be okay" you can tell he's clearly not okay
I'd love to see the video from this day. I've seen the 50 cent interview. You rarely see Arite but when he's on camera he looks "ossified"!
He was drunk and high..it's all in his book.. drinking Smirnoff ice in plastic cups
Drinking to take the edge off
Howard constantly pretending like he wasn't renewing his contract every few years, stressing his staff to death so he can negotiate. He's such a disgusting person.
He's pretty selfish
Still on air 13 years later. Honestly he should have hung it up back then his legacy would've been way larger.
Sounds like Howard had already made up his mind Artie had to go at this point. Even if he hadn't attempted suicide this would have still been his last day.
Best part was when Artie said
“With therapy I learned not to do stand up”
Artie became Jeff The Drunk.......funny how that happened. Made fun of Jeff all those years.
@Upson Pratt Just like how Artie was arguing over how he didn't get his little 5 grand for spending 20 minuts on a stage and then all he talks about is getting high. Howard should have fired him the 'third' time he fell asleep on the air. He was all about his ego and only came in for the paycheck. How's Artie doing now?
@@xXAce_TnTXx this vid is 10 years old and comments are still active lol. And Arties new podcast is out just google “the comics gym”
Ironic
@@sirblake406 no thanks🤣
He became a wack packer
"I've gotten to the point in therapy.... "
😂 That darn baby gorilla!
Artie is a fragile human being to begin with, he's a natural addict. He had crippling guilt over his father's long and tortured death, because his dad had asked him if he wanted to come work with him that day and he said no, and if he had been there he'd have been holding the ladder and his dad wouldn't have fallen. He took drugs to try to mask that pain, then turned into an addict who needed more and more, then spiraled out of control.
The lesson: deal with your pain head-on without drugs.
That was an excuse to use drugs. He lied to so many people. Artie was great on the show but he was a typical addict.
@@Tacoman1967 even the best fall
@@songname7707 don't get me wrong. I love Artie. I really do! But until he dealt with the guilt of his dad's death he was in "self destruct" mode. I wish him all the best. I know he's turning things around and I really hope he can do it this time. I'm on his side not the addicted side.
Not a "natural addict"? You think people with money don't turn to drugs? Artie's life has shown he's about as "natural" as an addict can get.
U believe that story about his father. He hated his father.
i just think it's a really funny clip. i LOVE the brutal honesty and ball-busting exemplified on the stern show. where else would you experience someone nodding out on-air awoken by an air-horn? i love and miss artie and his contribution to the show.
i miss this guy. the show isn't the same without him.
Toward the end of his time on the show he sucked so bad. His long boring stories derailed the show, full of lies, not funny. Just bad all around.
@@AK-hw9ijyou’re being wrong
yeah that was crazy.howard knew artie couldnt handle it anymore
Artie threw in “the therapy” and Howard laughed
God I fucking miss Artie so damn much. I’m so happy he’s alive still
Its amazing Artie is still alive. The show really went downhill after he left.
Wrong
@@jcdemp7513 You think it got better after he left? Its terrible now. Nothing like it used to be. Howard is a PC woke jackass now.
@@jcdemp7513 It's over now.
It probably would have ended for Artie anyway. Howard went woke I guess. Howard should just retire.
Artie is still, at least, semi-coherent at this point in the show. By the time 50 Cent shows up, he's completely out of it.
wrong. this happened during the news
@@wizardofid4896 50 shows up later. If i remember correctly, he walks through the middle of the interview with his hands full of food.
@@ronaldjohnson624No…this is near the end of the show.
Artie was the best thing on the show. Period.
Up till 2007
I was born in 93, my mom listened to the show and in 2010 i started listening regularly. I always heard them refer to Artie and for reason i had the impression that he was an asshole, but ive been listening to all of the old stuff and he seems like the nicest guy on the entire staff.
Artie sucked so bad at the end. He even admitted it on the air and in many podcasts since then.
@@fearandloathingmedia2051 Artie was amazing in the beginning but he turned into a miserable drug addict at the end.
I believe Howard and Tim pulled Artie into a room after this show and let him go. Imagine what that talk must have been like.
No the real story is Tim Sabean came to Artie after the first break and "asked" him to go home and get some rest...Artie said no i'm here to do my job..he gets worse during the show ..fast forward Artie gets a call at home from Tim again asking him to go to rehab ..Artie agrees and they go on Christmas break and the rest is history..He was never fired..
Nah, Howard is a bitch off the air. He's a coward, doesn't have the balls to have an uncomfortable conversation if its not for radio.
Tim Sabean himself confirms he fired Artie, and that Artie did the stab-n-bleach stunt within ~24 hrs of Tim firing him. Note that Tim NEVER spoke of this during his Sirius tenure, and only recently gave details during a 2019/2020 RadioGunk session, almost like he was waiting out some 7-year statute of limitations. Howard has never publicly acknowledged Artie’s termination beyond the standard “we told him to go home + try rehab” party line.
@@sskoog in January after Artie said he would go to rehab and he hadn't.
@@albycoppola737 He was fired, after many months of utter silence. Gary called to tell him he was out, and within a day he'd stabbed himself.
It’s so obvious Howard wanted Artie gone in the worst way.
eastcoast's chronology is a bit off.
He was placed on medical leave by Sirius after this show (12/9/09), and was checked into rehab, but he left early, and THEN attempted suicide about 3 weeks later.
In fact, Sirius wanted to send him home before the show was even over. THAT'S how bad a shape he was in.
There's an article on examiner.com from 4/3/12 that talks about it in more detail.
I wish he still was here. I like him
the end of the stern show as well
That's why. Howard Stern can't have people on the show that are gonna do drugs and stab themselves up. Which is unfortunate because Artie's run was the best Stern show days ever.
In his defense he stabbed himself after he was fired from the show. Literally the day after he was fired. Tim Sabean talked about it. Because no one on Stern ever wanted to bring it up after the incident. And we all know why, the way he was treated in the end is the reason he stabbed himself. He felt worthless. No one tried to really help the guy, they all love making it sound like they tried but they did nothing. Tim was the only one who actually tried, yet he was also the one who ended up having to fire him because of his job title. But it was Howards decision. They should have had him off air for almost the last year of his shows. Yet, because it made great radio, Howard played along with it. As Artie constantly fell asleep on air while hailing out or nodding out. Its too bad. Cause the after affect was the Stern show went downhill and Arties career basically fell right off.
@Lookie Here Nah that shit with Teddy was WAY more than ehat it seemed. Artie wasn't bullshitting. That guy was a leach. And he knew how it looked like he was in the right, because Artie was so fucked up all the time. But the truth could be seen. Teddy used Artie. Like most of Arties "friends".
Why not?
@@AshtrayAnnie Yea ,well I didnt know that. I thought they broke for vaction, he got fucked up and stabbed himself.
I don't think this was his last
day ,was it? Seems his last day 50 cent was on and Howard basically just ignored him, kinda told 50 cent to do the same. It was sad. To the point Artie was asking questions and flat being ignored.
I think Artie discussed this day in detail in
"crash and burn" or whatever that book title was....
Howard never cared for anyone on that show. Notice anyone who left the show has no relationship with Howard anymore. Not one person has Howard reached out to who left the show. What made that show great at its peak was the characters the games the workers and writers. To be honest certain points of the show Howard was hard to listen to got you frustrated. He only cared for Artie as long as Artie was at the show. After Artie left he never spoke to him again. Just shows you how important his co workers really are. Howard changed radio for sure. But he is cold hearted who never cared for anyone but the show. Thought the privilege of just working there was enough. Never cared if you didn’t make a living working there. As long as he got the content from you.
Does he reach out to people that weren't on the show with him? I don't really know much about the guy other than I listened to the show many years ago when he was still on the radio. I do know that some people, (myself included), are just not good at maintaining relationships. I don't reach out to anyone. I definitely love and appreciate the people that were part of my life but I don't have the desire or social ability to talk to them often. Maybe Howard is like that too?
Or maybe he is a total dick 😂
@@dangolfishinit's true, howard really is a total dick. Just look how he treated Scott the engineer and his wife in their time of need.
You’re a sociopath if you think he never cared for anyone on the show
love Artie, he sounds mashed here he sounds like jeff the drunk when he struggles to get "usually its 3/4 dead" howard takes tremendous care of himself obviously he wasn't going to tolerate a full blown heroin addict to sit there anymore, he had a great run
I hope Artie lives long enough to do the John Belushi biopic.
we always think we _finally have it figured out,_ don't we?
like, even at our very worst, in our minds we're like "yeah, it's bad, but i think i've finally cracked it."
Artie at the end just breaks my heart. we're SO delusional sometimes. maybe drug users more than most.
artie was dying slowly for years,,,,
Artie declined so much between early 2006 and late 2009.
Artie had the easiest job ever. Just sit there and say a few words every hour. How the fuck can that burn you out
He had a pretty big stand up schedule at the time too going on the road all the time.
@@johnv6806 SO make 100 grand a year speaking a few words 4 days a week and live life or burn yourself out doing shitty standup too
@@jcbbb 100 grand a year? He was probably making 2 million a year on the show.
Reading Crash & Burn. Whether you love or hate Artie, its an amazing book.
It's really not
Best book I ever read. His admiration for Howard, and his connection to his father loving Howard is What kept Artie working there for a decade. After this, he disrespected Nick, Anthony C, and just didn't gaf anymore.
I saw a video of this , fiddy cent was there that day and I can say Artie was even more messed up looking than he sounded in this video, he looked totally twisted.
This is pretty eerie.
this definitely pushed artie over the edge
Howard Stern is no liberal, he was a big Ron Paul supporter last year along with other celebrities such as Clint Eastwood and Mark Cuban. Ron Paul is probably one of the most conservative presidential candidates we ever had here in America.
fucken bullshit
Howard is 100% liberal these days. 100%.
Artie was fired. He received a termination letter, and then attempted suicide. This is why he’s never appeared back on the show and never will. And Artie can’t discuss it because he signed a blanket non disclosure agreement and could be sued into oblivion if he ever discussed it.
How do u know this?
@@shanetsung3558 because it's gold. And if he could talk about it... he definitely would.
Can't discuss what? It's clear what happened and he talked about it a million times.
I’d LOVE to hear this entire show!
I have it, not sure how to send the file to you, too big for an email attachment.
First of all, Artie did not leave the show. He was fired. Secondly, Howard cut off Artie because at this point in Artie's life, the drugs affected his speech. It took him a long time to formulate a sentence without saying uhhhhh...uhmmmmm before every word. Howard no longer had the patience with Artie's addiction. He put with it for years.
He wasn't fired. He agreed to go to rehab and then there was Xmas break.
Danimal300zx has it. Sabean’s RadioGunk interview alludes to his “firing Artie,” Artie’s suicide attempt roughly 24-48 hrs after being fired - NOT the December 2009 last day on air, as publicly believed - and, worst of all, Sabean sitting in the hospital room when Artie regained consciousness, angry and disgusted at the guy who’d terminated him not three days prior. Shudder.
To be fair Artie always had a problem with saying “uhh…uhhhh” before every sentence. I remember when he was arguing with Gary about the fake piss story Gary made fun of his stammering before sentences lol.
Stern says he wants Artie Lange out, then tries to convince him to remain for another year. "I'm worried about you". Worried about talent leaving his show.
Artie was the best thing that ever happened to the Howard Stern Show.
def not true. howard is howard. artie was annoying, their humor never vibed that well. artie never understood the etm bit
idk about that. the prank calls richard and sal have done are still hilarious and iconic. or what about beetlejuice?
FULL SHOW PLEASE??? Thank you.
10 Years TODAY! 12/9/2019
I'm going to guess that this is the last day before a long break.
Artie is living with his mom now.
In a house that he bought.
Anyone have this whole show? According to his book he was “ossified” and was asked to leave. I would love to hear the show in its entirety. There’s a 50 cent interview around but you barely see Artie...
Rob Pagliuca same here brotha same here
I really want to listen to it as well
I’ve gone back and watched it, it’s pretty uneventful. Artie barely speaks at all until this point
I gotta ask my doctor!! Lmao 🤣
Hope peace for Artie
The funny thing is.....Stern KNEW Artie was going to be fired after the show.
Haven't listened in years, but I worshipped Howard back in the day with Jackie and Artie. Now I see he's got a crew of younger, balding bros for his bits...just not into it.
Artie, are you signing for an other year? (You sound like my landlord wondering if I'm moving out)
He sounds drunk or burntout really bad. You can hear the sadness. Listen for it.
Artie and JonTron are just alike
Only some people will understand
The Stern show sucks without Artie.
The Stern Show was great before, is great after Artie, Artie fucked up, dude it's been 9 years...move ON!
@@themastema1189 *and the crowd goes silent*. U write that, jokester? Lol
@@themastema1189 how can i be a cool tough guy like you? It must be amazing lacking self awareness and having a surplus of badassery in it's place.
0:31 indeed brother.
6 years ago today.
Almost 10
I miss Artie but Howard put up with Artie sleeping during the show. Artie was elvis in 77 here. Leave Howard alone
artie said that line sealed the deal with him and howiee
That also coincided with Howard getting divorced and meeting Beth and getting neutered in the process.
I think you can kinda hear that they turned against Artie.
Artie turned on them for years. They gave him chance after chance after chance...
@@victoranthony9037 your right.
Really sad how Artie ended his run on the show. Very dark and very sad.
This was the day I was born 😊
My friend this industry chew n spit your bones out, miss you bro...
they should have got Jim Breuer after Artie was done. Jim was doing great when Howard was trying out comics for the Jackie spot. Could've seen Jim slid in nicely after Artie.
Supposedly they DID approach Breuer. This only came out a long time later on Opie & Anthony. Jim said something very roundabout to Artie about "they start whispering in your ear... they start whispering...," which now seems to directly reference his own situation at the time. He seems to have turned them down, perhaps for family + sick-dad reasons.
Would have been annoying by 7 o'clock
He called him a pelican
It’s messed up how Howard enabled Artie and they treated him, especially since he went home and tried to kill himself. Howard and his personal crew exploited all of the staff and “freaks” until they were valuable and then just dismiss them from the show.
Enabling or not, they chose that path. No one forced them.
Artie was such a sweet guy. Even at his worst (haranguing ppl with homophobic slurs) you could see he was a man with a giant heart, who didn't mean what he said when having an angry outburst, and would always feel horribly guilty after. Genuinely feel sorry for him, and hope he's worked out his demons to some extent. I think his lack of public profile at the moment is a good sign, that he's staying out of trouble.
His worst had nothing to do with calling people a fag. It was being a goddamn junkie.
Artie will probably outlive all of us. How he's still alive after all this time with all of his abusing his body/addictions is literally some kind of a miracle.
God Bless'em.
Yeah look at Mick Jagger and Ozzy still kicking lol
@@travman1987 they are lucky... I bet all kinds of cancers tried to infest their bodies..
less than one month later, Artie attempted to stab himself to death
It’s not Howard fault but he did enable him. Artie was getting progressively worse for a long time. Everyone knew it. Instead of straight up telling Artie that he needed to get to rehab and clean up or he’s fired, he treated rehab like it was just a suggestion or option. It wasn’t until the very end, when Artie was at his absolute worst, that rehab was more of an ultimatum and he was asked to take some time off but by that point Artie was so far gone that the only thing keeping him somewhat sane and relatively ok was the fact that he had to go to work. Should have given him the ultimatum long before this. At a time when Artie actually felt like he had something to lose. People may think it’s not Howard’s job to do that but think about it, the fight with Teddy was April 2008. That’s when it was clear that Artie needed help. In February 2009 was when Artie had the fight with Gary and EVERYONE on the staff knew he was on drugs. It wasn’t until 10 months later that Artie had his last appearance on the show. It shouldn’t have been dealt with long before that.
He had gotten worse and worse. If Howard had kept him on, he would’ve been blamed if Artie died. This is not anyone else’s fault but Artie
I don't think many people with functioning brains are blaming Howard. Most of us are just upset because the Artie era was the most entertaining and it's all gone now
Yeah this is eerie... Sad... I miss Artie so much! I stopped listening after he left, part coincidence, partly because after they revealed what happened, I just felt sick.
@jlbrewmaster It's spelled addict. An attic is the space between the roof and the ceiling of the top floor of a building.
Do you know how many days he missed because of his addiction? He called in sick like 20-30 times and was late dozens more times than that. Heroin addiction is a bitch, it becomes your only love in the world, and he made a lot of really embarrassing decisions because of it. Not faulting him, but that's probably why. Rumor has it Stern was gonna fire him anyway, because of all of the aforementioned. He never saw the suicide attempt coming, though. Not from a mile away.
voteZDLR have you done heroin or are you like the other fucks??
I don't know. Would you rather have a genius miss 20-30 times or an average person that's never late. The show has been on a ridiculous decline ever since he left. Showbusiness is a weird thing
@@MidwestFarmToys well I will agree with that, the show is a shadow of it's former self and his time there definitely made the show better.
Can you post the video of Artie pumping gas and accepting $20 from a stranger, that’s my favorite 😂😂❤
Rip stern show...we all know it was the artie lange show those years
Yeah idk why everyone thinks Artie just left. He was pushed out very subtley, and im sure theres soms stuff behind the curtain that was said well never know untill someone on their deathbed writes a book. AKA Howard in about 15 years.