Fallout Talk - Trusting Character Exposition
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- Опубліковано 28 чер 2024
- When should you trust character exposition?
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0:00 Intro
0:55 Usually okay
3:14 Usually dismiss - Ігри
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Faction leaders have every reason to lie to the player. They are trying to sell you the idea of joining their faction.
Now I am thinking how interesting it would be to create a worlds story by first writing out the events as they objectivly happened and then write down afterwards how every faction sees these events and have the people of the factions believe that they happened this way
Also some theory stuff around Legate Lanius is that it might be a title not a person. The mask itself is the actual Legate Lanius so that the legend can continue to grow despite the death of the original wearer of the mask.
Idk tbh I don’t feel like Obsidian gave him the stats he has and the big fight just to have him not be the guy who’s stories we heard about then again maybe Lanius was meant to be betrayed differently but you know only a year to make NV
They had a year and a half
I think the community misunderstands what Myrion is lying about.
Myrion is lying about his competence; he claims to be some chemistry genius, but he clearly isn't, and the Chosen One can call him out.
He didn't invent Jet with some careful process; he got lucky, and he basically stumbled on to it.
The only real thing Myrion did was to find the right amount of fumes needed to make the drug effective.
That isn't the whole story though, nor is it backed up by in-game evidence. The Chosen One can accuse Myron of stumbling into it out of personal doubt, but he's defensive about his creation, and he demonstrates a level of knowledge both about drugs and the process needed to make Jet that indicates that; while he may be overstating his level of competence because he's egotistical, he isn't outright lying about anything. Furthermore, Myron has an extremely high Science skill of 109%, the second highest Science skill among companions in the game.
Honestly, I think people look too much at how much of an egotistical and selfish person Myron is and assume that, because he's an awful person in those respects, that therefore that means he's lying about inventing Jet. Ignoring that someone can be a bad person and still tell the truth.
I don't think we disagree; Myron did "invent" Jet in FO2. To be more precise, he accidentally discovered it while growing mushrooms using brahmin manure.
He didn't create the protein; he didn't even start using the manure for the protein; he was using it to grow hallucinatory mushrooms at first.
He got lucky that the manure fumes were enough to create the drug.
He doesn't even claim to be the one that noticed the effect of the fumes first since he uses "we".
The only "real work" he did was kill hundreds of slaves to find the safest addictive dose.
Myron is intelligent, and he has considerable knowledge considering he is self-taught, but he is exaggerating his expertise and overstating how relevant he was in making jet.@@grayman4951
@@MRK5152video Fair enough, I suppose I was being a little conclusion-jumpy. Given that I've seen people argue that Myron didn't make the protein extract therefore he didn't invent Jet period, conflating a key ingredient used to make Jet with Jet itself.
@@grayman4951 I haven't heard that argument before, but it seems more about the ambiguity of what someone means by "Jet.".
One could argue that the fumes themselves are the drug/Jet; Myron didn't further process them, so he discovered Jet.
His ending seems to follow this logic, for example.
If "Jet" is the whole package with the inhaler and the right dosage, then Myron did invent it.
I think that line is a bit blurry between inventing or discovering a drug, at least colloquially.
The more common misconception is that Myron lied about his discovery and instead found a new process to remake a pre-war jet, it's even on the wiki.
It's clearly not the case in FO2, where he explains exactly how he discovered Jet, and nobody in-game claims otherwise.
The only evidence for Jet being a prewar drug in FO2 is a continuity error by one character.
Myron lying is not even necessary to avoid major lore conflict; Jet can be a prewar, and Myron could independently rediscovers a version of it without previous knowledge of the drug.
Good video. I often bring this up when we hear Mr. House's "plan" for the Mojave. How do you know that you can really trust him? Or when he talks about his past, how do you know that he really did predict when the Great War was going to happen? To me it always seemed like him being a narcissist and playing himself up to the Courier.
I mean him pretty much acting like Elon Musk does? Yeah house definitely greatly exaggerates his importance, but I think we can trust him on predicting the bombs, if he didn’t New Vegas would be like the Glowing Sea in 4
A question of trust applies to all factions in the Mojave. In FO4, Deacon tells you that people will tell you everything that you might want to hear but it's their actions that matter. As far as House goes, he managed to save some of Vegas's infrastructure with Anti-Air when the bombs dropped, he has a fusion generator in the Lucky 38, he has a robot army. Those are fairly pro-active decisions when dealing with the apocalypse. He's fair in most of his deals and ruthless in others. Frankly, he's self-important in his ego and that's also his biggest problem. He's the "all your eggs in one basket" choice; if he goes then his plans go with him. Instead of a contingency plan in place of his death, he distributes an obituary stating how important he was. Not really helpful. But as far as working with him, I'd argue he'd treat you better than any other faction in the game. He puts a lot of thought in the details but he's not perfect. He's mostly business minded and there's not really any room for compassion. He's a gamble like any other, Welcome to New Vegas.
@@confuzzledlee2095 beautifully put my good man, really cute ending statement as well
@@Grimsly3736 No, you don't. He could have simply had an idea that the nuclear war was imminent, and thus he got to work building his defenses and life support system, not that he actually knew what day it would happen.
@@confuzzledlee2095 Mr. House only ever wanted to save Vegas, specifically the Strip. This is why he has left Freeside and Westside to rot in slums while denying them entry into the clean and pristine Strip. Mr. House absolutely does have the resources to improve the living conditions of those in Freeside and Westside BEFORE the game ever starts, meaning before he has the platinum chip. He rakes in a lot of money from gambling, which he could then use to reinvest in these outer slum areas. But, he doesn't. He is just another tyrant, or "autocrat" as he would like to be called.
Mr. House is most assuredly not the best ending, probably second worst ending.
Great point you made, this topic goes overlooked in all games, even movies and books! Not every character is reliable.
Think this applies to any written media within the games too: Since the writers of those in-universe books are also fallable.
I think a key part of the issue with the whole "trusting characters" or "this character is unreliable" thing is that the overwhelming majority of the time Fallout isn't very open-ended with how the player can interpret what a character is saying in terms of whether or not they're telling truth being correct about something. Simply put; in these games, if a character is outright lying to you or even just wrong about something, it's something that's usually immediately addressed/confirmed by the game, often also by that character themselves. (i.e; character lies to you > you operate on information that is a lie > character admits he lied to you for dramatic effect) Easiest direct example I can think of is Barton Thorn from New Vegas.
Furthermore, I think the other issue is that people are misinterpreting what are likely writing errors as canonical information by sheer virtue of being in the final product. Like Myron being the inventor of Jet supposedly being contradicted by Mrs. Bishop's claims of using Jet before Myron was born. Even though Chris Avellone, the designer of both characters, confirmed that this was a writing error on his part; one that wouldn't exist had it been accounted for.
I think a perfect example of this is the whole "mr house said cats were extinct, therfore cats existing in fallout 4 is a lore break"
It could be argued that Mr. House was just assuming since he couldn't find any in the mojave. But it's made pretty clear that his reach really isn't that far at the start of the game. He said he was hardly able to reach Victor in goodsprings at the time of the couriers first encounter with Benny, so him having first hand knowledge that cats are completely extinct across the world let alone even across America is a stretch.
Of course I've seen people argue that Mr house saying it was just a way for the devs to tell the players some lore in an immersive way, and that it's still a lore break or at least a retcon in fo4 because of this. I personally disagree and think it was just Mr House assuming, and he assumed wrong
You have no idea how happy it made me to see someone else say this
Good job.
It feels more so that you can trust characters when the writing when it is written by writers that takes the previously established rules of the universe seriously and into account and such compared to writers that consistently breaks the rules and shows no regard for the previously established rules no matter if it is within the same work or prior ones in the same universe.
Obviously, this can be subverted and still work in certain circumstances but requires poise and skill to do it properly, as a lot of the time it feels like a sloppy rewrite or retcon.
You say you're not a writer, but coming from someone who does write and illustrate to create worlds, you have the mind for it. It's all a scientific process anyways. Just look how fast Pewdiepie has transcended from being someone who could meh to actually draw. He used the right resources and practiced correctly. So if you wanted to, you very well could. But getting back to the scientific process point, plenty of people who are respected critics don't always contribute themselves to the medium. Or moreover you get a lot who were trained in the medium but didn't produce anything, staying on the academic side of whatever field they decided to devote themselves to.
I generally think every character is telling the truth until I get proof otherwise.
If the character is well written I may or may not be fooled, but that's part of the immersion.
Of course, as long as this happens within the game and not due to external information such as theories, speculation or even statements from developers.
I knew Myrion was going to be in the video the moment I read the title lmao. But jet IS a pre war drug. Myrion modified it to make it more addictive. The lore is coherent across all games about it, and in New Vegas there are indeed 2 common jet types, the normal low addicting one and "dixon's jet" which is highly addictive like myrion's.
"And I didn't stumble across it. I MADE IT."
Literally the entire fanbase.
"Understandable. There is obviously nothing to question here and I can go about my day."
Then, go on to make fun of console players bc their system actually runs FO4 with no mods necessary, under the guise of "I so open-minded and every modern fallout enjoyer just believes whatever the devs SPOONFEED them."
Ffs, I'd be a millionaire if I had a dollar for every Bethesda fan boy who used that "spoonfed" buzzword. Yes, even if you do nothing but criticism, you still are obsessed with it, thus a fan boy on the opposite side of the same coin.
How to make a long ass comment that says nothing relevant to the video
You're so right for this honestly