I like most of the commentators, there have been a few new guys that have done recent top 8s that are pretty annoying yelling way more than necessary and making pffffftbt sounds non-stop. Can't go wrong with waff/phil & chillin/vish though.
@@Radarssbm what’s a recent event you covered? Kind of stopped watching when events starting going back offline but I would love to hear what new commentator’s are bringing
Meele commentary is ok, when you're in there or watch only meele comentary then yes you might be able to say that it's bad. But go ahead, go and see commentary for ULTIMATE, you'd be crying to hear meele commentary real quick
I’m tired of commentators saying the self aware “classic commentator line, nice bair classic” or “another classic commentator line, but percent isn’t a lead” Like come on it’s bad enough saying the cliches(which I love) but making pointing out the cliche another cliche is even worse
not really a hot take: Part of what keeps melee alive for spectators is the fact that most top players are charismatic and hilarious. Not all sports or esports have that
Facts, I think this is also related to smth mang0 brought up on stream the other day, melee in terms of all games has basically no “downtime”, it’s dense. This means that top players have often extended their full stamina of effective practice after 3-5 hours instead of other games that are less dense having max productivity stuck at 10-12 hours per day like cs or league. I think this gives melee players more time to develop social skills, and/or an entertaining public presentation.
Slime is the worst commentator. I understand he's funny, but it's like he's on a soap box. I don't care about you. I just want to watch the set and hear interesting comments on the matchup/game. Focus on the players, game, and match up. Stop trying to be the star of the show.
The thing is he is capable of offering good commentary (I think it was fairly decent at SCL sets for example). That tendency he has got particularly bad at summit tho.
Slime actually works really well with Ludwig imo. Them watching summit or whatever with mang0 is some of the most enjoyable commentary ive ever witnessed and it wasnt even real commentary
I think there are two main problems with melee commentary for me. One is what Moky hit on, which is that you don't need a huge amount of knowledge about the game to be good at commentary, but you want someone who is knowledgeable about the landscape of the scene, the players, and recent results to give the audience a picture of the expectations going into a tourbament/set. The second is that there are rarely defined roles in melee commentary. I think the reason pro player like Mango, Armada, and Kodorin have been traditionally received very well in their commentary stints is because they did a good job in the color commentary role because they have such a specialized perspective (much like former players doing commentary in sports).
I hate Toph's commentary so much. I don't give a crap about niche interactions when i'm watching a top 8 set between leffen and hbox. I wanna hear the play by plays, the rivalry, the hyped "OH OH OH" and "WHAT?!?!?" on good/bad DI. I wanna hear about what each player said before the match and how one player's unconventional move seems to have shook the other player a bit.
@@FlamingZelda3 he does that too though, watch the plup showdown from last night plup vs ibdw. Last game is super hype with HBox and Toph screaming OHHH WHAT
My hot take is that Zain still has a poor mentality and is a choker deep down. Zain basically only plays single elimination tournaments. Once he goes to losers, it's over. He also has felt really complacent when it's come to the Sheik meta.
I don't think every character should be as good as top tiers but having them all be like around Dr. Mario would be kinda hype, not taking majors but like you'd see an occasional great player with one or like a local being won by one
Importance of commentary is converting interested people to players by getting them hyped imo, it's good in melee but with the narrative that there's no new good players to most casuals, hyping the up and comers more could help
For the commentary part, if you want them to have more knowledge on certain things, then they would have to become analysts and then would HAVE TO get paid way more.
i think double down recently struggled a bit with commentary, i dont have anything against jorge and junebug they seem like just fun guys but they seem to get sidetracked too many times in their commentary to try to make any joke they, be it a good one or just a pun
The part about commentators not knowing the scene is very true. I think a few of them, like Toph, still try to keep track of all the new players, but many other longtime commentators don’t know a lot of players
People are always so hard on commentators, Idgi.. Not everyone can be Scar and Toph. Also, some ppl just need more experience on the mic but if we bully those ppl they’re never gonna get there.
I think the rage actually helps with viewership a little too; it’s a lot more fun to see someone yell at their computer to let off steam then get sad (sadness is as okay as rage, I think anything people are passionate about they’re going to get emotional about) so if a streamer wanted to channel their high emotions into “rage”, even played up, to me it actually feels like a healthful use of emotional energy compared to bottling it up, so I agree with moky that it’s not really that toxic if no one is hurt
melee commentary is quite environment-based imo. speaking entirely from an analytical standpoint: at majors you expect professionalism and maybe a little informality from the commentators we've grown to love over the last decade or so, people like play-by-play analysis and little one-liners. i dont understand the rage from some people over commentary at summits especially when summit is literally a chill invitational
I think a lot of people get mad or down on themselves out-of-game but that changes your ability to conduct yourself in-game too. I think a lot of people more so mean "bad relationship with the game" than "bad mentality" when they say the latter. If your relationship with the game is bad then your mentality has a lower ceiling than other people's. It's like the failure of the pessimist: if you always expect the worse, nothing looks exciting anymore. If you're not having fun with the game or finding a way to maintain a healthy relationship with it as a competitor, your mentality is going to be capped lower because you're not engaging with it as much as thus there's an opportunity loss on your own productivity in practice and competition. Or something.
I feel like this is kind of a bit prescriptive, no? To me what matters most is if the commentary is fun to watch/enjoyable. Doesn’t matter if it follows typical conventions, as long as it is good I don’t think it matters
@@Radarssbm Seriously some of my favorite commentaries are at tourneys were like mang0 and westballz or somebody get drunk and commentate. The convo is generally a lot more casual and about players live/personalities and they clearly know a shitload about melee
Just joshing dawg ofc you always talk fast xD really like the skullbro take hes one of the sickest doc mains if not the sickest and I appreciate his insight
If your mentality as a winner is the other player needs to not be sad that I beat them thats a terrible mentality. Do you know how many times people would throw for m2k if they thought like this it sucks to watch him lose but thats the game
shortening the gap between the top tiers and the rest of the cast would actually make the game more hype (bring in more people). I agree that too many good characters like pm isn’t the answer, but you can’t tell me the scene wouldn’t exist if donkey Kong had a better shield
all the "e-sports" commentators just sound like a bunch of dorks and most of the time don’t even talk about anything eye opening. also half the commentators have painful high pitched fast talking voices. I love my HMW’s my chillIindudes, and lovages . Good mix of hype, pleasant to listen to, not too uptight, and actually knows what they’re talking about
On the real, A LOT of the current community would quit without the controller fixes we have now or if they were taken away. old melee is ass and unfun at this point.
I like most of the commentators, there have been a few new guys that have done recent top 8s that are pretty annoying yelling way more than necessary and making pffffftbt sounds non-stop.
Can't go wrong with waff/phil & chillin/vish though.
Who says pffttb?
As a “new” guy doing recent top 8s I really hoping I’m not making pffftbt songs
@@Radarssbm what’s a recent event you covered? Kind of stopped watching when events starting going back offline but I would love to hear what new commentator’s are bringing
@@dendai9613 I did the first half of top 8 of Battle of BC 4 with Turndownforwalt, and I’m doing the same with GOML next weekend
@@Radarssbm I think you're doing a great job at commentating!
Meele commentary is ok, when you're in there or watch only meele comentary then yes you might be able to say that it's bad. But go ahead, go and see commentary for ULTIMATE, you'd be crying to hear meele commentary real quick
monotheon is god
Moky these videos are fire keep it up 😭😂😂😝😝👺👺😈😈😈😎😎😎🤣🤣🙂😽😽😽😽😽
Doking for the Algorithm
Doke up
Moking too
he’s moking he’s doking
moking and doking for the algorithm
I’m tired of commentators saying the self aware “classic commentator line, nice bair classic” or “another classic commentator line, but percent isn’t a lead”
Like come on it’s bad enough saying the cliches(which I love) but making pointing out the cliche another cliche is even worse
Moking for the Algorithm
Been watching for years,
Top commentators
Toph scar
Vish chillin
Phil hmw
M2K by himself for the insight/ lols
This but m2k + plup
Yo Vish Toph
Leffen Vish Chillin
We need whispy on FD with Randall and shy guys. That should be the only tournament stage.
With a smashville platform
not really a hot take: Part of what keeps melee alive for spectators is the fact that most top players are charismatic and hilarious. Not all sports or esports have that
Facts, I think this is also related to smth mang0 brought up on stream the other day, melee in terms of all games has basically no “downtime”, it’s dense. This means that top players have often extended their full stamina of effective practice after 3-5 hours instead of other games that are less dense having max productivity stuck at 10-12 hours per day like cs or league. I think this gives melee players more time to develop social skills, and/or an entertaining public presentation.
Moking for the algo
Slime is the worst commentator. I understand he's funny, but it's like he's on a soap box. I don't care about you. I just want to watch the set and hear interesting comments on the matchup/game. Focus on the players, game, and match up. Stop trying to be the star of the show.
The thing is he is capable of offering good commentary (I think it was fairly decent at SCL sets for example). That tendency he has got particularly bad at summit tho.
Slime actually works really well with Ludwig imo. Them watching summit or whatever with mang0 is some of the most enjoyable commentary ive ever witnessed and it wasnt even real commentary
Got sniped on the official melee discord the other day for playing peach lmao
I love melee commentary, Toph especially just knocks it out of the park.
I think there are two main problems with melee commentary for me. One is what Moky hit on, which is that you don't need a huge amount of knowledge about the game to be good at commentary, but you want someone who is knowledgeable about the landscape of the scene, the players, and recent results to give the audience a picture of the expectations going into a tourbament/set.
The second is that there are rarely defined roles in melee commentary. I think the reason pro player like Mango, Armada, and Kodorin have been traditionally received very well in their commentary stints is because they did a good job in the color commentary role because they have such a specialized perspective (much like former players doing commentary in sports).
Toph alt?
@@zekehorsman9532 I wish, love that guy
I hate Toph's commentary so much. I don't give a crap about niche interactions when i'm watching a top 8 set between leffen and hbox. I wanna hear the play by plays, the rivalry, the hyped "OH OH OH" and "WHAT?!?!?" on good/bad DI. I wanna hear about what each player said before the match and how one player's unconventional move seems to have shook the other player a bit.
@@FlamingZelda3 he does that too though, watch the plup showdown from last night plup vs ibdw. Last game is super hype with HBox and Toph screaming OHHH WHAT
My hot take is that Zain still has a poor mentality and is a choker deep down. Zain basically only plays single elimination tournaments. Once he goes to losers, it's over.
He also has felt really complacent when it's come to the Sheik meta.
I don't think every character should be as good as top tiers but having them all be like around Dr. Mario would be kinda hype, not taking majors but like you'd see an occasional great player with one or like a local being won by one
I feel like characters around samus or mario/doc level are pretty fun to watch occasionally, but it'd be awful if they were super common
Importance of commentary is converting interested people to players by getting them hyped imo, it's good in melee but with the narrative that there's no new good players to most casuals, hyping the up and comers more could help
This topic again 😴 Melee commentary as a whole is fine and often excellent
Playing on CRT in gram gram's basement :')
For the commentary part, if you want them to have more knowledge on certain things, then they would have to become analysts and then would HAVE TO get paid way more.
i think double down recently struggled a bit with commentary, i dont have anything against jorge and junebug they seem like just fun guys but they seem to get sidetracked too many times in their commentary to try to make any joke they, be it a good one or just a pun
Bad mentality is not taking personal responsibility for your loss
You can be mad at a loss while still taking responsibility
The part about commentators not knowing the scene is very true. I think a few of them, like Toph, still try to keep track of all the new players, but many other longtime commentators don’t know a lot of players
People are always so hard on commentators, Idgi.. Not everyone can be Scar and Toph. Also, some ppl just need more experience on the mic but if we bully those ppl they’re never gonna get there.
FD should be the only stage is the worse take of melee I’ve ever heard
BBB is 90% a character
"FD Should be the only legal stage."
If I had to play Samus without platforms to waveland on and off of, I'd stop playing straight up lol
Marth would literally win every touurney
who up jouting tonight
There should be a better system for getting new commentators on the mic. I don't even know where one would start with trying to get into that
Melee commentary isn't perfect but like go watch anything else and then tell me it's bad
I think the rage actually helps with viewership a little too; it’s a lot more fun to see someone yell at their computer to let off steam then get sad (sadness is as okay as rage, I think anything people are passionate about they’re going to get emotional about) so if a streamer wanted to channel their high emotions into “rage”, even played up, to me it actually feels like a healthful use of emotional energy compared to bottling it up, so I agree with moky that it’s not really that toxic if no one is hurt
Dokers
Another hot take :
Moky noise is itchy ass fuck
I looks like a shitty yoshi can edit
teccskill shirt so clean
That fire effect with the text overlayed is such a Monotheon touch that will not go appreciated by anyone who has never done video editing before
melee commentary is quite environment-based imo. speaking entirely from an analytical standpoint: at majors you expect professionalism and maybe a little informality from the commentators we've grown to love over the last decade or so, people like play-by-play analysis and little one-liners. i dont understand the rage from some people over commentary at summits especially when summit is literally a chill invitational
I think a lot of people get mad or down on themselves out-of-game but that changes your ability to conduct yourself in-game too. I think a lot of people more so mean "bad relationship with the game" than "bad mentality" when they say the latter.
If your relationship with the game is bad then your mentality has a lower ceiling than other people's. It's like the failure of the pessimist: if you always expect the worse, nothing looks exciting anymore. If you're not having fun with the game or finding a way to maintain a healthy relationship with it as a competitor, your mentality is going to be capped lower because you're not engaging with it as much as thus there's an opportunity loss on your own productivity in practice and competition.
Or something.
wow people are actually playing melee on laggy ass LCD's now wtf?
There's actually been a lot of emulation optimizations and fixed broken code that people have been playing with on CRTs for years to close the gap.
@@jakezepeda1267 The problem is the LCD technology itself though
Wow such based takes
The problem with the commentary is that there is no clear distiction on who is the color and who is the play by play commentator.
I feel like this is kind of a bit prescriptive, no? To me what matters most is if the commentary is fun to watch/enjoyable. Doesn’t matter if it follows typical conventions, as long as it is good I don’t think it matters
@@Radarssbm Seriously some of my favorite commentaries are at tourneys were like mang0 and westballz or somebody get drunk and commentate. The convo is generally a lot more casual and about players live/personalities and they clearly know a shitload about melee
I'm moking for the algorithm. I'm doking for the algorithm
Another Moky upload? Big win for humanity I’m hearing 👍
Yees
A lot of these takes are more people not understanding the game
Falco better offstage but fox is better once he makes it to the ledge
That FD take is the worst take I've heard in a while.
when blind is the titular hot take but he also thinks wobbling is cool and fun
Have any of these vids touched on that swift take at 8:34
Axe is just disgusting bc as a marth player pika is one of my comfort MUs. never understood how ppl say its bad for my boy
Are you top 100 lol? From my experience of playing alone I would think Falcon beats Falco when in reality its one of his worst matchups
Little bit of sniff sniff tonight moky talking a little fast and itching your nose a lot here ;)
Just joshing dawg ofc you always talk fast xD really like the skullbro take hes one of the sickest doc mains if not the sickest and I appreciate his insight
Mono with the marvel tier editing, good vid
Agreed moky agreed
The problem with raging is it sours the win for the winner. They wanna feel good about a W not guilty when they see your sad angry ass moping
If your mentality as a winner is the other player needs to not be sad that I beat them thats a terrible mentality. Do you know how many times people would throw for m2k if they thought like this it sucks to watch him lose but thats the game
@@h3ck774 not saying any1 neeeds good sportsmanship but it makes it more enjoyable
Love these
epic content!!!
Jouting
shortening the gap between the top tiers and the rest of the cast would actually make the game more hype (bring in more people). I agree that too many good characters like pm isn’t the answer, but you can’t tell me the scene wouldn’t exist if donkey Kong had a better shield
This man wants to kill melee
all the "e-sports" commentators just sound like a bunch of dorks and most of the time don’t even talk about anything eye opening. also half the commentators have painful high pitched fast talking voices. I love my HMW’s my chillIindudes, and lovages . Good mix of hype, pleasant to listen to, not too uptight, and actually knows what they’re talking about
On the real, A LOT of the current community would quit without the controller fixes we have now or if they were taken away. old melee is ass and unfun at this point.
Dashback fix is really necessary at this point