Melee's Hottest Takes - Is Mang0 Overrated?

Поділитися
Вставка
  • Опубліковано 11 січ 2022
  • WATCH ME LIVE ► / moky_dokie
    follow me on twitter ► / moky_dokie
    follow me on instagram ► / moky_dokie
    Recently I went to Twitter and asked for your hottest super smash bros. melee takes- takes that make you cringe, that make your gut twirl. Now, watch as I lay down the hammer of judgment, and weigh in on whether Mang0 is overrated, whether Marth beats Fox, and whether UCF is for...a very specific type of person.
    edited by: / monotheon
    #Moky #HotTakes #SmashBros
  • Ігри

КОМЕНТАРІ • 238

  • @TheStrangeBloke
    @TheStrangeBloke 2 роки тому +159

    The thing with the NBA is that the NBA also requires a lot of physical attributes for top competitors. Like you gotta be a dude, gotta be at least 6'2" and really should be like 6'6" or more. There's a lot of gatekeeping built in.
    To bring in Llod's point, the NBA has legendary pillars of the community like Shaq. Shaq, who was notoriously lazy, showed up late to practice, and missed almost every free throw he got.

    • @ohDJ_
      @ohDJ_ 2 роки тому +26

      Fun fact, Shaq only made one 3-point shot in his entire NBA career

    • @Zoo-Wee-Mama-Sq
      @Zoo-Wee-Mama-Sq 2 роки тому

      Yeah but the ball also gets harder to handle as you get further away from the floor and your hands get bigger. Obviously being huge is a big advantage, but shooting centers like Bjelica are rare for a reason

    • @2point031
      @2point031 2 роки тому +21

      @@Zoo-Wee-Mama-Sq except bigs have been getting better and better at shooting mid-range and further over the past few years. It's not like big men now are drinking different water than big men of old. Big men now are just putting more time into their shot.

    • @hEaDShoT2934
      @hEaDShoT2934 2 роки тому

      Shaq also has a ton of skill for a big man that a lot of people don't understand. Great passer, could handle the ball. His ability to shoot free-throws had a lot to due with him being immensely strong. Also infamously Allen Iverson a comparatively "more skilled" big man.

    • @hEaDShoT2934
      @hEaDShoT2934 2 роки тому +1

      @@2point031 This is kind of untrue. It's just that 3 point shooting wasn't that emphasized. Shooting big men have always been a thing. Hakeem Olajuwon, Brad Daughtery, Kevin Garnett, Tim Duncan, Bob McAdoo , Patrick Ewing. The more interesting evolution is in big men gaining the ability to pass.

  • @thunderbolt1213984
    @thunderbolt1213984 2 роки тому +180

    No hate to anyone in the thread, cause they were assigned to make hot takes, but I think a little perspective from the world of sports may give people like llod some faith in how far the melee community has pushed the game.
    It took the NFL till the 1980s to come up with the idea that throwing short passes on purpose was a good idea. And for this innovation Bill Walsh is considered one of the best offensive minds in footballs history. 100 years n a billion dollar industry to realize that the slant and hook routes are useful. Traditional sports blindly hang on to blind dogma much longer than melee does. Even today that sport is 30 years behind where it should be. Computers have been saying that teams should go for it on 4th down about 10x as often teams currently do. they dont cause of fear and dogma.
    I think melee is actually pretty analytical in the grand scheme of things. Even in esports you have the league scene which has lacked analysts and innovation for many years now. I think the last team to really innovate that game was season 4 samsung white in like 2014. Melee is doing better then LoL and that game has millions put into it and real infrastructure. Melees pretty great compared to other esports.

    • @user-zf7jx8qh2r
      @user-zf7jx8qh2r 2 роки тому +32

      Our Commentary, as much of a meme it is, is leagues better than other Fighting Games. I think melee has come a loooooong looooong way, and the people standing on the shoulders of giants may forget just how far we started.

    • @CreamyPesto505
      @CreamyPesto505 2 роки тому +9

      As a Football fan, I agree with MOST of what you said, except going for it on fourth downs. As a Chargers fan, I've watched them be the most agressive 4th down team all year, and they won games because of it, but it also cost them brutally in their biggest moments. They could have won the division by punting, and playing field position more, or kicking field goals, and taking points when they're available. Going for it on fourth down so often cost them HEAVILY, and they're out of the playoffs. What the computer statisticians are missing in that argument is game momentum, situational football, and context matter much more than stats.

    • @audiowithdrawl5948
      @audiowithdrawl5948 2 роки тому +2

      @@CreamyPesto505 also human limitation and error!

    • @thunderbolt1213984
      @thunderbolt1213984 2 роки тому +6

      @@CreamyPesto505 ill admit, there is definitely a human aspect to the whole 4th down conversation. I could totally understand the argument that players perform worse on 4th down and theres more unforced errors that make it too risky. Each game is gonna have its own context as well, so you could be 100% correct on the chargers game example.
      But i think a team that commits to the 4th down go for it mentality can smooth a lot of that out (think the mid 2000s mike leech tech teams).
      Maybe im just a psychopath that wants to crush those human emotions and live in computer utopia lol.

    • @Golgito
      @Golgito 2 роки тому +3

      Saying that the last team to innovate in league was SSW with their macro heavy style when you have Chinese teams dominating with their agro play style recently seems kinda reductive to what (mostly) non korean teams do

  • @SMALLSandJOE
    @SMALLSandJOE 2 роки тому +87

    Relatively outside perspective here (I've seen a stream or two but don't follow moky much) this video is really well done. Good structure, being able to "roast" opinions and then put in your thoughts works for this kind of content. Sweet! Will watch next video for sure.

    • @Acryte
      @Acryte 2 роки тому +3

      Sick animal crossing avatar. That's all, have a nice day.

    • @SMALLSandJOE
      @SMALLSandJOE 2 роки тому +3

      @@Acryte :) that's Hank! He was only in the Gamecube version and is my favorite! You have a nice day too!

  • @carlzabel8
    @carlzabel8 2 роки тому +67

    I think the whole "if everyone in the world played" could change a lot of competition. Would Magnus Carlsen still be anyone if everyone played chess? Would Floyd Mayweather still have been a good boxer? Honestly I think in most cases though even if everyone played that sport, sure maybe the greats would be surpassed by a few people but I think the all time greats in all forms of competition were drawn to that competition because they saw something in it that others didn't. I think they are great because they have that passion and love for the game, how many people would have spent 1000 hours pausing the game to study frames like M2K? So would the greats be surpassed by probably a few people if everyone played? Most likely yes but I still think they would be near the top because they were the people dedicated and talented enough to get there in the real world. If everyone in the world had that passion then I feel the skill level would be roughly even across the whole field

    • @carlzabel8
      @carlzabel8 2 роки тому +4

      @Thaal fair enough, lots of sports in their early years tend to have less strict regiments of that sort. just in general physical health is something that should be stressed more in Esports as being of healthy mind and body will undoubtedly improve performance in tournament.

    • @setxjrichie9745
      @setxjrichie9745 2 роки тому

      Figuring out frame data isn't nearly as comicated as M2K made it out to be. More people being in any game would just make the top players look better in comparison, cause now instead of being .01% player, they're now just top .001% player.

    • @dingo9696
      @dingo9696 2 роки тому +2

      Chess has waaaay more players than melee lmao

    • @OmniNero
      @OmniNero 2 роки тому

      Maybe our top 5-10ish players or so would not change -- some will, but some might have the grit/talent to remain a top player. But I do think if the entire damn world started tryharding Melee, the rest of the top 100 players would be different players.

    • @dingo9696
      @dingo9696 2 роки тому +1

      @@OmniNero you have to be completely clueless to think that any of the current top 5 would still be in the top 50 if the whole world played melee

  • @shephaveutriedmeditation
    @shephaveutriedmeditation 2 роки тому +16

    this is the weirdest mac and cheese ad i've ever seen

  • @KemicalKiddMUSIC
    @KemicalKiddMUSIC 2 роки тому +65

    Why do people assume mang0 doesnt know much about the game lol he knows alot. Matter in fact hes pretty genius imo. Its like goku, hes genius in what he does which is fighting but not as much in other areas. Just because you know your frames and optimal punishes doesnt mean you know how to play. He won majors in the top 5 gods era. That should tell you alot about his play/fighting IQ.

    • @gil8512
      @gil8512 2 роки тому +11

      Not to mention no player has consistently dominated Mang0 in any era. ie nobody has a 10+ streak, typically Mang0 is able to adapt after a few losses. Even Armada who typically had Mang0’s number couldn’t consistently beat him

    • @acek.7094
      @acek.7094 2 роки тому +4

      Dude won Summit 11 not that long ago. It's a fucking nuclear take that a man who could win so much across so much time is just a dumbass who...gets lucky?

    • @guitaroach
      @guitaroach 2 роки тому +8

      This reminds me a specific 'The Reads' podcast episode where Toph & Sajam were talking about frame data. Toph was explaining that people who have a good 'feel' for actions & interactions is, in a way, knowing frame data. Toph used Mang0 as an example.
      Basically, Toph explains how Mang0 likes to do a late Dair on shield that would normally be shield-grabbed. The wild thing is that Mang0 has learned to land the Dair at a specific height to make it a frame or two safer so that it's actually not grabbable - he's fooled the opponent to open themselves with a grab, and then Mang0 can punish with shine.
      He came up with this strat all by feel and wouldn't know what the numbers are in that interaction, but that strat shows how frame knowledge doesn't always stem from reading/understanding frame data & numbers, so to speak.

    • @bigdog5112
      @bigdog5112 2 роки тому +1

      This thread is the cringest shit I’ve ever read

    • @drewreich9274
      @drewreich9274 2 роки тому

      @@bigdog5112 forget how to read i guess

  • @jmtokx
    @jmtokx 2 роки тому +6

    First moky vid, got this randomly recommended and its super well done. Not really a melee player but from an outside perspective the thing you said about condescension really resonated. I've never seen a bigger example of the "cool kids table" than in melee.

  • @simongotborg3866
    @simongotborg3866 2 роки тому +14

    I realyl disagree with the narrative that EU switched to NTSC because it's "better". We switched because we didn't want to get screwed over and american trournaments which is where all the prestig was. As someone who played PAL exclusively for about a decade before switching to NTSC I don't have any strong preference one way or the other.
    Still enoyed the video. Nice job

  • @DamonHunter13
    @DamonHunter13 2 роки тому +7

    IIRC Australia moved from PAL to NTSC to allow its top players to be able to compete on the same version as NA - the region with the larger/largest player-base for its tournaments as well as a majority of the largest tournaments in the world. Bit of NA privilege there tbh but I do appreciate that at least everyone plays on the same version... for now.

  • @shadowgaleshale9218
    @shadowgaleshale9218 2 роки тому +9

    White + fox main + L + ratio

  • @Bagingibagungi
    @Bagingibagungi 2 роки тому +13

    If mang0 lost that game to zain on yoshi's because of randal, people would be more likely to want randal banned

    • @B463L
      @B463L 2 роки тому +5

      We all agree that Mango is a cool guy, but his *stans* are cancer.

    • @anuraagkumar978
      @anuraagkumar978 2 роки тому +2

      @@B463L this is true

    • @alex__9001
      @alex__9001 2 роки тому +1

      @@B463L 2/3rds of melee fans are mango fans, what a toxic take

    • @B463L
      @B463L 2 роки тому +3

      @@alex__9001 fans are cool. Stans are the scum of the earth

  • @SpookySkeletonGang
    @SpookySkeletonGang 2 роки тому +38

    I think UCF should be used to fix all the stupid shit with the gamecube controllers instead of nerfing any other controller that comes along. The gamecube controller is objectively a bad piece of hardware yet everyone holds it up as the gold standard just because it's what they're used to. Stop holding everything else back and buff that shit.

    • @ClassicBentobox
      @ClassicBentobox 2 роки тому +13

      I don’t think Gamecube controllers are objectively bad hardware, they are objectively inconsistent hardware.
      The buttons are very tactile, and it still has one of the best analog sticks, with a very small deadzone. There’s a reason og Monkeyball feels best on Gamecube.
      UCF is needed for production and manufacturing differences that are naturally accounted for in more modern controllers. So I agree with you, but I think context is important.

    • @Orion-ve7kk
      @Orion-ve7kk 2 роки тому +4

      And then they get mad when someone introduces another controller like the boxx. Hard agree.

  • @iluvgum123
    @iluvgum123 2 роки тому +1

    Great video dawg. Your Content continues to get better and better

  • @ohDJ_
    @ohDJ_ 2 роки тому +18

    I think that the people who currently play melee would still be better than most people who don’t play melee if they were forced to. There’s some selection bias (if this is the correct term) because most people currently playing are probably people who are at least somewhat innately talented in it and are drawn to the game, more so than the average person. So if everyone played, people who already enjoyed it and played it would have an advantage over the pack. Smash is an interesting case too because the game is so appealing from a casual perspective that most people actually have played it and someone with the competitive spark would be drawn to it anyway. Mango, zain, and probably ibdw at this point are all NBA level players.

    • @BreakfastKids
      @BreakfastKids 2 роки тому

      i’m confused , are you saying people that play melee are better than people that don’t play melee?

    • @ohDJ_
      @ohDJ_ 2 роки тому +9

      @@BreakfastKids not sure if you watched that part of the video but moky said that if everyone played melee then the current best players would not be the best in this hypothetical world in which everyone played melee. I am arguing that the people who currently play melee have a natural draw and motivation to get better at the game because they love it so much, and people who do not have that drive will simply not be as good as people who do, for the most part. So, in this hypothetical world, the people who currently play melee in our real world would still be better than the average person because of their affinity for the game, and the people who play it simply because everyone plays it will not be as motivated to be good at it.

    • @ThePharphis
      @ThePharphis 2 роки тому

      One word: Korea

    • @ohDJ_
      @ohDJ_ 2 роки тому

      @Thaal would our current top players not also have access to these training camps, be subject to strict training, etc? Mango has kept up with top level play for over 10 years and has shown no signs of slowing down, and there are other people on his level too. Sure, mathematically the level of play and the amount of players at the highest level would have to increase if the amount of players increased so dramatically, but that doesn’t mean that people who have literally already proven to be the best at one of the most difficult esports wouldn’t be able to rise to the competition.

    • @ohDJ_
      @ohDJ_ 2 роки тому

      @@ThePharphis it would be very interesting to see a korean melee scene because they are well known for being very good at esports but it’s not like they dominate every esport they compete in.

  • @AutokickOff
    @AutokickOff 2 роки тому +8

    The problem with saying that we don’t need to change Melee, it’s the same game we’ve played for 20 years is disingenuous since the ruleset for competition has evolved so much. If we should just learn to play around FoD platforms, why not learn to play around Rainbow Cruise and the like? It used to be legal.
    My point is the only fair and logical ruleset for this game is Rishi’s Jungle Jam.

  • @sumpyori
    @sumpyori 2 роки тому +5

    Character Diversity is way more important than people give it credit for. If everyone in the top 100 was a Fox for instance, I have a feeling rules could be catered to them (Banning too many Fox-only regrabs). Its important to have as many viewpoints in the top echelon of players so that character-driven rules are less likely to happen. OBV this is very unlikely anyway. People have already proposed stuff like limiting the # of puffs jumps, or time in air. Too many of one opinion/viewpoint is a slippery slope.

  • @jakemsnakem4599
    @jakemsnakem4599 2 роки тому +1

    great vid mono keep it up

  • @SubTails21
    @SubTails21 2 роки тому +3

    My brain is actively shrinking reading these takes

  • @aDSdl_l
    @aDSdl_l 2 роки тому +1

    I would absolutely protest a tournament to put that cloud back on yoshi's story

    • @georget4141
      @georget4141 Рік тому

      same. i think everyone would freak out if that happened

  • @al3ph35
    @al3ph35 2 роки тому +3

    I, for one, would boycott tourneys if they took the cloud away from yoshis

  • @WhosJohnGill
    @WhosJohnGill 2 роки тому

    Granted I’m writing this right after you finished the notches talk, but HugS is an old school man. I love him. I’ve been doing all of those things as a fox player without notches since 08. These new kids and their damn notches and lofi hiphop beats to wavedash to. *shakes fist at cloud meme* I am just an old gaffer now in his 30s 😂

  • @joshuafury5353
    @joshuafury5353 8 місяців тому

    The thing is that even if as many people played melee as basketball only a very small portion of them would be the type to dedicate themselves to high level melee, current day melee grinders are insane you can't argue that. If it were the case that all of a sudden melee's playerbase exploded with new players it would take a while for them to reach our top talent who I think would be able to continue off of their current skill level pretty well for a while in response to the new rate of meta development that would happen. Melee would eventually get pretty crazy but I think a few of our top players would still make it.

  • @WhoPlaysMc
    @WhoPlaysMc 2 роки тому +6

    That's kinda a weird statement to say mango is overrated since he's probably the person who's very nearly been competitive in way more things besides melee than any other top top melee player. Pretty sure he was an old school league player and was pretty damn good back then, probably would've been at least challenger tier can't see him being worse than say tyler1 if he actually tried at the game.
    Not an amazing comparison but armada is like a top 40 mario 64 speedrunner now or some shit
    People will always try to downplay the competitiveness of melee in general though so it doesn't really surprise me to still see stuff like this.

    • @anuraagkumar978
      @anuraagkumar978 2 роки тому

      I think there’s a temptation that similar to science communicators that’s like “look how little we know, look how much we could know.” Except, melee isn’t science, and melee isn’t as deep as physics or chemistry or biology, so it comes off as like talking down to other players. I think we love saying that melee is an infinite game with infinite playability and infinite innovation, that is demonstrably not true. We are pretty good players. We are at least decent at melee. Everyone who is a great melee player would be a great anything else if the same time was put into it.

    • @antpassalacqua
      @antpassalacqua 2 роки тому

      You’re thinking of Hax who had major league talent, he was an old school Twisted Fate

    • @dingo9696
      @dingo9696 2 роки тому

      >top 40 mario 64 70 star
      If only you knew how weak this point was lmao.

    • @dingo9696
      @dingo9696 2 роки тому

      Liam is the world record holder in sm64 and he has said many times that if sm64 had a large playerbase, then none of the current top players would be relevant. Same goes for melee.

    • @WhoPlaysMc
      @WhoPlaysMc 2 роки тому

      @@dingo9696 he's not even done getting higher in the rankings vs people who've been playing for years and years and years more than him? He'll be higher in not too long I'd bet on that.

  • @wiiztec
    @wiiztec Рік тому +1

    The fact that mango is a scrub has always been an open secret in the smash community

  • @dennisdunker8764
    @dennisdunker8764 2 роки тому +9

    But if everyone in the world played this game the top top players would also improve because there would be more competition overall forcing them to improve. Sooo idk how to feel about saying NONE of the top players still would be. Kinda seems a bit extreme to me.

    • @ihateanimebutonlywhenitiso7227
      @ihateanimebutonlywhenitiso7227 2 роки тому +1

      I think he meant if everyone started playing the game at the same time or if everything was on an even playing field in terms of experience

    • @dennisdunker8764
      @dennisdunker8764 2 роки тому +2

      @@ihateanimebutonlywhenitiso7227 well that's probably a more fair statement to make. But I still think a lot of top players could and would be pretty high tier players. I mean they are damn good at the game for a reason.
      It's kind of the equivalent of saying if more people in the world played basketball Stephen curry wouldn't be the greatest shooter of all time or LeBron James wouldn't be one of the best players in the world still.
      I mean to each their own opinion I just disagree to an extent

    • @youngdoodle
      @youngdoodle 2 роки тому

      it's POSSIBLE, but it seems so unlikely when literal billions of people who have never gotten the chance to play the game before can be bth afforded the opportunity and the resources to improve means that that likely be at least 100 people that are simply better at improving and learning than our current top players

    • @itsversa
      @itsversa 2 роки тому +2

      You could also say this about literally any game. The more people who play, the more better players there are and the further the game is pushed.

    • @youngdoodle
      @youngdoodle 2 роки тому

      @@itsversa yes you could. i'm not saying it makes a ton of sense to point out, just explaining the logic

  • @Imbored182182
    @Imbored182182 2 роки тому +2

    mono went beastmode on this one frfr

  • @tpammt8276
    @tpammt8276 2 роки тому

    I think the point about the amount of money and time invested into NBA players vs melee players is a really good one. Basketball is a billion dollar industry that dumps millions into helping their players perform better. Its quite different from a guy with maybe one coach grinding a game for 8 hours and watching vods of past games.

  • @Keyourasa
    @Keyourasa 2 роки тому

    3:00 i feel like also the vast majority of players in general are spacy players if u go online its kinda rare to see a floaty aside from puff once in every 10 games

    • @yurplethepurple2064
      @yurplethepurple2064 Рік тому

      40% of top results are from spacies

    • @Keyourasa
      @Keyourasa Рік тому

      @@yurplethepurple2064 yea but top results doesnt say much about the general melee population also this was over a year ago so no idea what this comment was referring too lmao

  • @_WiZ420
    @_WiZ420 7 місяців тому

    Ngl, shield drop notches may be all that I would want LOL

  • @valakemedia
    @valakemedia 2 роки тому

    3:22 should be a summit skit

  • @psoup7249
    @psoup7249 2 роки тому +3

    Moky Monday on a Wednesday 0_0

  • @MrFlejon
    @MrFlejon 2 роки тому +3

    People didn't switch from pal to ntsc because it sucked. We switched because it was more convenient. Most European players I know preferred pal, and I'd rather have the whole community switch too.
    There is no argument against pal imo.
    Fox's usmash, Falco's dair, Sheik's dthrow, Marth's dair are nerfed, because they're just not balanced.
    Falcon's jab actually works.
    It's a small but actually surprisingly accurate patch.
    I believe the "get good" mentality is dumb and we should play a patched version of the game where things make sense.
    Roy is bugged, so is G&W. Just fix it already.

    • @ThePharphis
      @ThePharphis 2 роки тому

      marth dair tho :(
      falco's still spikes with strong hit, right? I might be misremembering. I know the late hit was weird?

  • @zjmullan
    @zjmullan 8 місяців тому +1

    the toph commentary take is hilarious but true if scar decides to never commentate again

  • @Yamulo
    @Yamulo 2 роки тому +5

    You could easily do the center stage positioning thing with slippi stats

  • @emonsees65
    @emonsees65 2 роки тому

    Notches can help with some other characters like pika and sheik! But spacies along with Marth pretty much rule the meta

  • @DSCris
    @DSCris 2 роки тому +2

    14:39 Sorry I don't make the rules but HankyPanky proved it's objectively Peach

  • @animellowssbm
    @animellowssbm 2 роки тому +3

    CLONE TOPH!!! Niche anime references fuck yes!
    Now back to the match.

  • @AwkwardTurtle311
    @AwkwardTurtle311 2 роки тому +9

    A guy i played in tournament before the wobbling ban, used a sound device (easily could do it with a phone tho) to hear a beat of wobbling. So whenever he got a grab he would be able to wobble forever based on what he was listening too. What’s fucked is i was beating him every game before that. In summary fuck how our community is letting everyone mod to their hearts content to get a advantage.

    • @AwkwardTurtle311
      @AwkwardTurtle311 2 роки тому +2

      @Thaal at the lowest level of gameplay it could be considered unfair

    • @miloferrara19
      @miloferrara19 2 роки тому

      @@AwkwardTurtle311 balancing around the lowest level of gameplay is pointless, though

    • @AwkwardTurtle311
      @AwkwardTurtle311 2 роки тому +1

      @@miloferrara19 it’s not about balancing the lowest part of the game, it’s about making sure the game has a standard of play at all levels for the competitors sake

    • @Brent-up4qg
      @Brent-up4qg 2 роки тому +4

      What if he was listening to a playlist of songs all with the bpm of wobbling? Where do you draw the line? I don’t think it’s really cheating and this is coming from someone that hates icies

    • @AwkwardTurtle311
      @AwkwardTurtle311 2 роки тому

      @@Brent-up4qg yeah i agree, not cheating jus scrubby and scummy

  • @noirlavender6409
    @noirlavender6409 2 роки тому +1

    15:06 Armada went a bit senile after retirement but he said something that's true; only two people have managed to be the #1 in the world maining a single character, and that character was puff. The amount of stupid shit you get a free get out of fking federal prison card while playin puff is insane, frame 2 inmune rolls, crouches under grabs, destroys mu's for no reasons, 2 bairs offstage and you're dead, rest set ups are easy to learn and hard to mess up/escape from, it's a lot -Marth easy character, yes, but at least he can't kill you at 0% without a lot of luck and tight execution

    • @vVPrototypeVv
      @vVPrototypeVv Рік тому +1

      Thats just factually untrue though. Armada himself was #1 with Peach only for a while. Mango was #1 only playing fox when it actually mattered for a while. And even if it was true, it doesn't really mean anything other than Hbox/Mango was good enough to not need secondaries for his characters clearly losing matchups.

  • @prsfw6900
    @prsfw6900 2 роки тому +1

    i loved this stream

  • @ddublu
    @ddublu 2 роки тому +15

    the idea that playing 12 hours instead of 8 per day makes you into a better player is exactly why the meta is "underdeveloped". Hell, under most circumstances, 8 hours is way too much already. You'll accumulate more bullshit you need to train off again if you blindly grind for that long. Over prolonged periods, nobody can focus that hard, that long.
    Also, unless you got massive discounts, macncheese is a financially shit choice, not even taking into account nutritional value. If you wanna save on food, learn to cook.
    All in all, it's fucking dumb, and that's fine. We're all dumb sometimes, especially when young, but stop wearing your self-induced suffering as laurels. If you're out for performance - in any field - and you're sleep deprived, overworked and/or undernourished, while still expecting growth, you need to take a serious fucking look at yourself.

    • @Yamulo
      @Yamulo 2 роки тому +2

      What are you talking about, one box of mac and cheese is like $1, what kind of mac and cheese are you eating?

    • @ddublu
      @ddublu 2 роки тому

      @@Yamulo I don't touch that shit... also, "box"? a quick search at walmart tells me you get 2oz containers for about 70c. 220 kcal per serving.
      Not only is it trash nutritionally, but if your goal is to save money, there are far cheaper things per kcal than that.
      As a rule of thumb: if it's a premade "instant" meal, it's not really value.

    • @Yamulo
      @Yamulo 2 роки тому +2

      @@ddublu Next time I go to the store I'll send you a picture, I can get them for as cheap as 67 cents :) say what you want but show me something cheaper than 67 cents

    • @ddublu
      @ddublu 2 роки тому

      @@Yamulo you really don't get it, do you?

    • @ddublu
      @ddublu 2 роки тому

      @@Yamulo what if I told you that 20kg of white rice can be had for about 20 bucks.

  • @Greatermaxim
    @Greatermaxim 2 роки тому

    Dedication should bear fruit. No one became a champion by giving up.

  • @The_SOB_II
    @The_SOB_II 2 роки тому

    I love what you're saying about brains and psychology and all that

    • @winterlogical
      @winterlogical 2 роки тому +1

      Yeah for real that part resonated with me too. I’m learning music production and while some parts come naturally to me because of past experience as a musician, the actual mixing and making shit sound good has been a SLOG. Meanwhile I know producers who took two years to learn and then poof they were making bangers weekly. Just shows how differences in brains can even affect minutia within the same sport/category/hobby.

  • @monkeysoulz
    @monkeysoulz 2 роки тому +2

    I love mokys content

  • @stratuspheroh7378
    @stratuspheroh7378 2 роки тому +1

    Great video

  • @jiraiya2000
    @jiraiya2000 2 роки тому +1

    mang0 has compared himself to nba players before . i wish the idea about everyone playing melee would make our pros less relevant argument could be hashed out but without esports being as established as real sports its almost impossible to say . i do think our pros could be compared to professional sports players because the difference between sports amateurs and pros are time dedicated and resources , and with melee being virtual i think the resources available combined with the time dedicated to improving by pro esports players are comparable to pro sports players. so i think if the world played then our pros would still be at the top but i think we would see a lot more character metas hashed out.

  • @pokepines2516
    @pokepines2516 2 роки тому +1

    Oh no it isnt my mokie dokie

  • @travisgordon6369
    @travisgordon6369 2 роки тому +1

    The main reason people who play brawl, smash 4 and ultimate don’t pick up melee is because they can’t change the controls of the game

    • @sumpyori
      @sumpyori 2 роки тому

      Honestly I kinda agree, Ult players are too used to not having tap jump

    • @travisgordon6369
      @travisgordon6369 2 роки тому

      @@sumpyori legit I would play melee if I could turn tap jump off and have the c stick to tilt

  • @jak3daws
    @jak3daws 2 роки тому +1

    The toph one killed me😂

  • @tiaraguy7705
    @tiaraguy7705 2 роки тому

    That first statement is definitely completely true

  • @D.Ghost92
    @D.Ghost92 2 роки тому

    Control Notches are the Cork Bat in E-Sports.

  • @alexbtoogood4u
    @alexbtoogood4u 2 роки тому +1

    great vid 👌 👏👏

  • @JFox4587
    @JFox4587 Рік тому

    We need to slow roll the controller bullshit back in time. The community should slowly pull back on what is allowed slowly and incrementally, with plenty of warning.
    It’s not that hard, we just need people that are a council in charge to decide the rules for tourneys. If SC2 can patch their own game with a pro player council, we can fix our controller issues…we just need to get organized.

  • @IRUKANJI
    @IRUKANJI Рік тому

    I mean, firefox notches could benefit Shiek/Zelda and Mewtwo players too I guess.

  • @prav1069
    @prav1069 2 роки тому +1

    same

  • @zachariahanderson4203
    @zachariahanderson4203 2 роки тому

    PAL isn’t as bad as people say, some changes made sense. Falcos late dair sends away instead of down, Fox being nerfed but still strong

    • @georget4141
      @georget4141 Рік тому

      i think if PAL was just a buff to low tiers instead of a nerf to high tiers people would like it more

  • @papadelta9485
    @papadelta9485 2 роки тому

    2:40 - 2:48..... not spacie mains... but i can think of a specific swede who absolutely DOES do this and has a huge influence therefore it seems like spacie mains in general

  • @ameeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
    @ameeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee 2 роки тому +2

    any yt mokers?

  • @LazyLee
    @LazyLee 2 роки тому +2

    GoodTake

  • @jakemsnakem4599
    @jakemsnakem4599 2 роки тому

    YOOOOO NO WAY THEY ACTUALLY THINK THAT

  • @coreygolphenee9633
    @coreygolphenee9633 2 роки тому

    Sheik is the best character that moves likes a mid tier its doc clunking with arguably some of the most busted hit boxes in the game

  • @acek.7094
    @acek.7094 2 роки тому

    This mans got a like and subscribe from me for the first 7 seconds alone.

  • @weebs1051
    @weebs1051 2 роки тому +1

    “people are so bad at this game that if they grind everyday for 2 hours, study there and other players vods for 15 minutes each, stay consistent with there practice, lab stuff out for 15 minutes a day, make lab note documents, memorize there characters basic frame data/cc %’s for each MU, etc-in 5 years they might be top 100.”
    yeah no shit sherlock lol

  • @cloudyskyeful
    @cloudyskyeful 2 роки тому +2

    Super algorithm

  • @twimbly
    @twimbly 2 роки тому +1

    Hello, Moky.

  • @MeneerToad
    @MeneerToad 2 роки тому

    As an european, I find PAL to be better and more fun but supported to change to NTSC because you know USA is never gonna change to PAL and having one version of the game worldwide is more important. I knew other EU people who share this sentiment. As a samus player NSTC fucked me tho because it gives almost all top tiers a buff

  • @DaDangerDen
    @DaDangerDen 9 місяців тому

    Im quitting if we take out randall.

  • @99potato99
    @99potato99 2 роки тому +2

    I’m Moking I’m Doking

  • @Gamesforus1
    @Gamesforus1 2 роки тому +7

    If old melee players were on the come-up today instead of like 2005, I feel a lot of them would have quit, or not have been a top player because of the meta being as hard as it is now compared to then.

    • @novinnovations4026
      @novinnovations4026 2 роки тому +5

      their skillset would be completely different if they were coming up in the modern era.........

  • @pleasequietdown8946
    @pleasequietdown8946 2 роки тому

    The hottest take is at 9:30 and its that we should have played melee less

  • @LordFartamor
    @LordFartamor 2 роки тому +1

    yo

  • @jakemsnakem4599
    @jakemsnakem4599 2 роки тому +1

    cool overlay

  • @Akiak7
    @Akiak7 2 роки тому +1

    Actually I think that... eehhhh forget it lol

  • @freddyjdukes
    @freddyjdukes 2 роки тому +1

    moky

  • @ghostaccountlmao
    @ghostaccountlmao 2 роки тому

    Bro, the NBA is MOSTLY skewed towards athleticism and size. There are a ton, and I mean a TON, of players that are actually trash af but they're huge (Tacko). And there's a plethora of players who are great with NBA level skill wise that aren't in because of size (isaiah thomas). This does not exist in melee. The closest you can get to a skew in athleticism/size is what character you play, and unlike DNA, you get to choose that. But I digress, and I want to address the main point. The NBA is not filled with "frame perfect" players. Not even close. Just watch Russell Westbrook for 1 game.

  • @BobbyBasketball19999
    @BobbyBasketball19999 2 роки тому +1

    Notches really are just total fuckin' bullshit though lmao.

  • @nutleey
    @nutleey 2 роки тому +1

    hey moky do you still wanna play minecraft

  • @I_am_Dad_Son
    @I_am_Dad_Son 2 роки тому

    I understand Albert's point but he made it in a stupid way. Of course no one is going to execute everything perfectly, especially in an analog game like melee. That's true for NBA players too. That's why less than 10 players were ever 50-40-90 in a season, with none averaging 50-40-90 over their career.

  • @QperG
    @QperG 2 роки тому +4

    It's funny hearing some of these smash guys compare melee to sports. (Who've probably have never played a sport at a competitive level.) they just don't get it.

  • @SnyderChips07
    @SnyderChips07 2 роки тому

    mokin dokin

  • @retrocayu
    @retrocayu 2 роки тому

    I feel like this can be said about any good gamer, because they become overrated, in definition only, when they are overhype. But overhype would imply that they can't back up the fact they are good at the game, which in this case mang0 has done. But yeah technically speaking any gamer that is overhyped can be considered overrated.
    NEVER GONNA GIVE YOU UP...

  • @jackzilla321
    @jackzilla321 2 роки тому

    Editor removed the part where moky said my take actually WASNT CAP IN CONTEXT just thought it was Marth. Unjust and ratio l balding SMH

  • @alexwood9941
    @alexwood9941 2 роки тому

    Mango at his worst is probably better than D1, but when he’s hot his mmr is arbitrarily high

  • @dougdimmadomeownerofthedim5376
    @dougdimmadomeownerofthedim5376 2 роки тому

    Hot take: PAL becoming the dominant version of Melee would kill the game because it's much more boring to watch compared to NTSC

  • @toomeh9060
    @toomeh9060 2 роки тому +1

    Mokers

  • @mitchellm2208
    @mitchellm2208 2 роки тому +1

    Morky

  • @Dr_Mel
    @Dr_Mel 2 роки тому

    If the comment about top players being bad is true at all it's because Melee is underfunded as fuck. How many people can AFFORD to spend as much time as it takes to become among the best in Melee? For a long time, the answer to that question was 5 people. Five.

  • @ethanmansueto6884
    @ethanmansueto6884 2 роки тому +1

    bro nba/UFC/nfl are super biased. lool in Melee anyone can go to a tournament and win, if I go to either 3 I have to get drafted. there are plantey of good basketball players who don't go to NBA

  • @GraViTyAboVe
    @GraViTyAboVe 2 роки тому

    If you clone yourself won't you be technically talking to yourself when you commentate the match with yourself?

  • @ThinkingReality
    @ThinkingReality 2 роки тому

    Wait - people get those hard fox angles by literally modding their controllers? They do this to make two of the best characters even stronger? And this is just... common, accepted practice in Melee? That's... _bizarre_.
    Also Randall is completely non-random. Learn the timing. #GitGud
    Also loving the take that puff is somehow "easy". We've been hearing this for years and there's still only one noteworthy puff. We've had more significant new Foxes in just the online era than we've had significant puffs in... smash history.

  • @James-yk5ge
    @James-yk5ge 2 роки тому +1

    ok hairline flex.

  • @doppspops2373
    @doppspops2373 2 роки тому +1

    comment

  • @brickkid30
    @brickkid30 2 роки тому +2

    Wobbling ban nerfs peach more than ics in the meta as a whole

  • @emonsees65
    @emonsees65 2 роки тому +1

    Hot take unbann hax and give him his night club back lol

  • @scouthatesrainbows
    @scouthatesrainbows 2 роки тому +5

    6:23 The phrase “it’s just a game” is such a weak mindset. You are ok with what happened, losing, imperfection of a craft. When you stop getting angry after losing, you’ve lost twice. There’s always something to learn, and always room for improvement, never settle.

  • @darienmoncree3980
    @darienmoncree3980 2 роки тому +1

    Appreciate this content, but wouldn’t mind more of you just playing friendlies. For fun, not cause I’m stealing stuff…

  • @pkjamming
    @pkjamming 2 роки тому +3

    Commenting for the algorithm

  • @lynmeh
    @lynmeh 2 роки тому

    Quit touching your hair homie. You can't help but look good

  • @Hugo_Prolovski
    @Hugo_Prolovski 2 роки тому

    Just scroll through Khalids Twitter account to find shitty takes. Hope he doesn't sue me for 40 dollars

  • @theinktician
    @theinktician 2 роки тому

    He called the goat of the game a D1 PLAYER 🤣🤣🤣
    Where do you find these people