My favorite part of this episode was the moment I realized how carefully Aviendha avoided even touching the swords in that fight, she could have picked up a weapon multiple times but didn't till the axe, I love that attention to detail
Lanfear's hair: You mentioned her long hair from when she was released and also if she had had shorter hair. It is generally accepted that when Lanfear is in the Dreams her hair is short, and while she is in the waking (awake?) world her hair is longer. So it's a way to help keep track of what is in T'A'R and what is real!
The Seanchan actors were told to all use American accents, but seanchan is so huge they said they could basically all use whichever American accent they want and just go with it. so they might all sound a tad different.
With most of the actors UK-based, that makes sense. I was told by an actor friend that UK actors are told to learn a single U.S. accent to start and will use that unless they are forced to train another. It can lead to rather amusing results. I saw a Royal Shakespeare Company production of The Man Who Came to Dinner, which is set in Ohio. The characters that supposedly came from Ohio included one who sounded like a southern belle, working class Bostonians, and an awe-shucks Jimmy Stewart-type.
I think Ishy is being the Father of Lies and using reverse psychology on Perrin to make him terrified of being a Wolfbrother. He doesn't want him to embrace his strength.
There's good reason to be concerned about being a wolfbrother. For some people it can work out. For other people... they can become more wolfkind than humankind.
@gilian2587 as a book reader I understand that, but I was basing my comment on purely show content :) we've met Elyas and, while he is definitely very wolfy he is still perfectly capable of interacting with humans - even if it is done so very reluctantly. We haven't seen a Noam character yet to get really worried about in regards to possibilities with Perrin.
When I saw the episode, it didn't feel like Rand was going to the dream world when he went to sleep, but that he opened himself up to Lanfear bringing him there.
The issue with action scenes in Hollywood lies with the stunt team and the cinematographers not sitting down together from day 1 to plan out the fight as a single coordinated team. Instead the stunt team plans something, shows it to the cinematographers and let then decide how it's shot. There's a WoT season 3 behind the scenes where the stunt team showed off one of their fights. It looks great with just one camera phone filming it, but I wonder how the same fight will be like in season 3.
So, that’s hardly universal. Many, many productions collaborate with the stunt team from the beginning. Choreographers will work out story points in the fight, they’ll figure out the physicality, they’ll shoot it (either with or without DOP/director input) and edit it, and the visualization is shown in meetings to discuss how it fits into other aesthetics (set, lighting, etc.). Those productions end up with great fight scenes which cover narrative or character points and fit into the cinematic language of the film or show. Setting aside the John Wick films for obvious reasons, this includes everything from Pirates of the Caribbean to Jack Reacher to The Expanse (for instance: Clarissa vs Naomi feat. Anna was talked to death with stunts, camera, and director before they even started practicing). “Hollywood” (which I presume is your euphemism for Western film and TV, not actual Hollywood), as an industry, knows exactly what makes a good fight scene. The problem lies in individual productions. And I won’t even say every production with choppy editing are making poor choices. Sometimes things happen and you’re stuck with a Taken edit situation. Actor skill, availability, scheduling, creative changes, etc. But, yes, sometimes it’s simply a poor process which ignores all of the above and a great sequence is drowned in poor choices on set and the editorial response is to Ginsu it to pieces. You’re not wrong there. Nonetheless, your comment reads as though it’s a systemic problem when it is not systemic. Every production can make the choice to hire the right people and ensure a collaborative process is undertaken. It isn’t systemic. It’s particular to individual productions (and sometimes individual episodes depending on the director).
The moment Sheriam said she didn't remember, I also thought they were revealing a hint about her as well....until the talked about compulsion. I think Verin already knows about the black ajahs, she's just collecting her list of who they are.
They DO all have American accents but from different places in Seanchan. And Turk in the books knew the horn and knew how to open the box. She can’t lie. They used the oath rods to bind prisoners. The prisoners didn’t need to be able to channel. She released the bond before she went to the Eye, but the oaths stay. Not only do they have horses, but LIANDRIN is shielding the three most powerful channelers in 1000 years by channeling in the ways! What the heck? Dark One protection? Although I am sad you didn’t enjoy the previous episodes. They are nearly perfect ….but maybe you’ll see that in a second watch. Same with Avis fight. The editing problem is the super quick pace in order to cover everything but you think it’s too slow and doesn’t cover enough. Not sure they could do anything right for some book readers. It’s good that only show viewers get it and love it.
I have not read the books, but man this season was good, the first one I couldnt connect entirely, but this one has been an absolute blast cant wait for season 3, I definitely did not see a change between chapters 4 and 5 as you guys did, maybe its because I havent read the books, but besides S2E01 which was a bit on the weaker side, the entire season 2 kept me engaged.
Loved to see you fired up by an episode this season!!! I don’t disagree that Aviendha’s hair could be a more intense red, but the actress Ayoola Smart is a natural red head, and I can see why the production decided to work with her real hair, Sun bleached highlights and all, as opposed to dying her locs, or trying to wig over them and fix it in post.
Great reaction! I’m so glad you enjoyed this episode. I agree it’s where the plots come together Lanfear is just awesome, Verin playing detective instead of the girls is a great choice for me. I’m sure you’ll love the next episode too I’ve just rewatched it and It still hits me hard with emotion
Lanfear is watching for Rand's dream because she had months to manipulate his dreams before so she knows it. She can pull him into TAR (she knows how to do that) or just manipulate his dream as she wishes as soon as he enters a dream.
Fun fact: Horses can run without riders. Like, you don't have to *kill* the horse so no one can ride it after you. You can just bring it with. Seriously.
Killing the horse was more about leaving the clue for Lanfear that they were fleeing on horses and have her chase after the horses that Rand and Moiraine abandoned soon after leaving Lanfear heading off in the wrong direction.
I felt like the Seanchan all did have American accents. Some Southern, some not, but all American, Turak and Suroth included. This episode felt the most like it capture the Wheel of Time (books). I loved this one, just like you.
Its so great to see you starting to enjoy the show for what it is. 🎉 Are you two planning on a reread soon? (Maybe without book club so you can go at your own pace)?
This season in my opinion is quite good and a massive improvement. Many of the editing issues with the show is due to a lot of stuff being cut due to time
Galad tells Perrin the price in the middle of the battle Perrin saves Galad in. Perrin rides down and saves Galad, Galad says "I bet you think this will sway my judgement", Perrin replys "It better" and Galad laughs and then tells Perrin the price is 100 gold to the families of both Whitecloaks he slew, and that part of the price is Perrin fights at the Last Battle. Perrin accepts, and that is what drives Byar to attack him and Dain defend him.
100% I really want them to focus on writing and editing for s03. This show could be so good if those 2 elements were even average... Rafe at one point mentioned they actually had to rewrite all of season 2 after they replaced Mat's actor so I think the struggle with Mat's arc was they were forced into trying to get him back to where they wanted him instead of where they were forced to put him.
Just being honest with how I've been feeling, I'm not trying to hurt feelings or anything. I've been struggling a bit with these previous reactions. They have been a bit draining to watch in a lot of places. I don't mind differing of opinions or even someone not liking something I like. That's fine. it is harder when there is so much negativity around something that isn't a change from the books but is misremembered and thought of as a bad change and it goes on and on at length. And the negativity from that snowballs into the next. That kind of misplaced negativity isn't entertaining. And it wouldn't be that bad if it wasn't a large majority the time/problems. There are entertaining moment, especially when some actual analysis of things or exploring what something might mean is done, but during the spoiler talk of the last one i constantly found myself looking at the time left just kinda hoping it was over soon but kept on seeing ~30 mins left. I don't want feel that way because I love listening to your reactions and insights. I decided to skip to this episode because of the title after a few days of waiting. I'm hoping it feels less chore-like/draining and gives me the energy to go and finish previous one. Your stuff rarely feels draining so i have hope. Nerdy I know you often read the comments and sometimes can take it hard when people don't find the video entertaining, hopefully you can see where I'm coming from and I'm not trying to do that. But I wanted to explain. I like you guys. Anyway I'm gonna keep watching (commenting before starting). Much love.
The reason this episode is so good is because there are actual source story beats. Even though they aren't 1:1 they are there and I loved every scene that was ripped from the books. That said, this was the only episode that felt this solid and the writer/director of this episode deserve an applause for trying their best.
I'm glad you both decided to stop comparing the show to the books so closely, and I think it's part of why y'all enjoyed this ep more. Comparing is fine, but when it takes away from enjoyment from one or the other, it isn't. Enjoy the ride! It has surprises for us book lovers too. Great reaction. Knew you'd love Lanfear's outfit in the end.
As a book reader, there are times that I have LOVED not knowing what was gonna happen. Surprises. There have been moments that I truly liked that this was different. Unfortunately, bad writing is bad writing regardless of whether it follows the books or not. Changes have been made (previous eps and the rest of season 2) that flat out contradict the very themes, character and world building of previous episodes. I won't say more specifically regarding this season so as to avoid spoiling. The issue I have is when characters are changed for literally no reason, for pandering reasons, or when there is little to no characterization or character arcs going on. I think that for most of us book lovers, the casting and the changes themselves were never the issue. The issue was lack of characterization of the literal main characters (Perrin, Rand and Mat in particular, but even Nynaeve), the wasting of time on plots and characters that literally have nothing to do with the main story (Steppin or Alanna/Warders or Lan/Moiraine manufactured drama) when the time budget is so tight, and the random thoughtless changes that will affect major points later on (the shadar logoth evil against the DO evil being the impetus for cleansing saidin, the way the ways open and close, the *finn and Mats memories, and many more). Above all, it's the terrible pacing and lack of character arc/agency of the main characters that most irritates me and prevents me from enjoying it for what it is. The series cannot have its cake and eat it too. It cannot depend on book reader knowledge or background information as a way to gloss over and not explains stuff and then make changes to the background source information. I shouldn't have to do homework to watch and enjoy the show. So the show, for what it is, is struggling and I fully blame Rafe, not Amazon. Sure, Amazons should have given more money and more episodes. But I have said it repeatedly: until Rafe can use the budgeted time he already has more effectively- can stop wasting time on irrelevant stories/characters/plots AT THE EXPENSE of the main story/characters- more episodes means nothing. Just as important, he needs to stop undercutting any characterization and world building he HAS done in previous episodes just to produce a momentary and pandering fanboi squee moment that does not hold up on rewatch. It's literally the equivalent of the Star Wars sequels pandering "memberberries" for moments that are SIMPLY NOT EARNED. All of this has nothing to do with fidelity to the written books.
@@ianohlander6001 Well... the Expanse is really really good, at least. Unfortunately -- I never read those books. As much as I like science fiction; I have not read as much science fiction as I am in fantasy. I seem to read a lot of mixed fantasy and science fiction -- and of that; very little from within the past 15 years.
@@ianohlander6001 I just realized I didn't speak to anything you wrote. I read everything you said; and I *do* agree with your assessment of the Wheel of Time show. I also admit that it is very difficult for many of us who have read Robert Jordan's books to let go of those books. A common example of an unfaithful adaptation that I always go back to is Jurassic Park. It is an adaptation. It is an outstanding movie. It is also an unbelievably unfaithful adaptation of Michael Crichton's book. Contrast that with the Wheel of Time show. It is an adaptation. It is a sometimes quite bad to mediocre to decent show. It is also an unbelievably unfaithful adaptation of the Wheel of Time books.
@@gilian2587 This is spot on. It's not necessarily that it is different. I like the idea of an alternate turning. It can work. And there are characters and plot changes that frankly i ADORE because either they fixed a weak spot in the books. RJ SUCKED at writing romance. He used authorial fiat- in the guise of taveren- to declare people were in love and BOOM! They were in love. He didn't show how the love developed. BS did a great job of turning Failie and Perrin into a real couple that you felt loved each other. The series has done a good job of showing some of the romance. Egwene and Rand actually seem like they love each other. This makes everything Rand does in book 2 (risking everything to save Egwene from the Seanchan) more understandable. And it makes how their relationship devolves and morphs all the more sad. We were TOLD that in the books, but from the get go, it never really played. Now I'm not sure how I feel about them having a sexual relationship yet. I think it may undercut later scenes (the igloo). But over all, the romances are much better. the villians are much much better. All of them. Fain is being used wrongly. And STUPIIDLY, they have included certain Fain acts (the Myrdraal killing at the village) without putting it into context or showing what it means. Without Fain having the dagger and merged with Mordeth, what the hell was that? There appears to be NO sign of that plot. So the fade nailed the wall becomes MEANINGLESS FAN SERVICE. Quotes or scenes from the books DEVOID of any context or meaning. Cheap and pandering. The show tries to establish rules of how things work- either explicitly or by showing. (Next episode is a BRIALLIANT example of this and probably the BEST of season 2). But Rafe can't help but undercut ALL the work he has done- all the rules and characterization over the previous episodes, going back to season 1- and then throw it away to create cheap pandering fanboi squee moments. And in the moment, you are like "Yeah! awesome!" And then you think 'wait a minute...how is that possible? wait? this violates everything we just leaned." Or "why isn't this character acting like they have SHOWN themselves to act from multiple previous episodes? What are they doing?" Or "How is this possible? We just same a similar situation- more pronounced actually- and yet this time this can happen? How is that not a contradiction?" I'm being vague, but they are very specific points I am making. That's Rafe's problem. And no, I DO NOT believe the showrunner or writer have plan and will explain it. They've already swept stupid stuff under the rug. Loial getting stabbed. How Fain made it to Fal Dara. Horses in the Ways. They just put their hands in their ear....or waved their hands at the audience in jedi fashion and tried to will the viewers to forget what happened previously. I want to make it clear. I love the casting. avhienda's look DOES bother me a bit as she really doesn't have the Aiel look that Rand does that apparently is so very obvious. hopefully they can fix that a bit. But she is great. And so are ALL the rest. The costume designers and set people and music are great. I wish the world had a more lived in feel, as we see in the Star Wars universe, LOTR, or GOT. Things not so clean or pristine. But the production is FANTASTIC. And there are some great writers on the show. But the director (not episodic but of the series), the man with the vision is Rafe. And he just seems to have a problem trusting the material or the characters. And he tries to force the story and characters into places they DONT need to go. He focuses on things that dont need it, especially when it comes at the expense of the core characters and story. This is why I dont think extra time or money from Amazon will matter. If season 3 does the same end of season fumble, I think I am done with it. And I don't know that the viewship is there. Rafe needs discipline. He should study the people who make the expanse or Silo or Severence or the Boys. They are brutal with their writing. They trim the fat and tighten the focus as much as possible. they keep the story and people in focus, not their own egos.
@@ianohlander6001 The books exist -- and they have some really outstanding ideas; even if some of the artificial internal war of the sexes dialogue and it's ensuing drama didn't work very well most of the time. Even with Robert Jordan's "these two characters are in love because -- well the wheel will as the wheel wills". Not everything the show does is terrible; and I suppose that should probably be more than should expect to come from hollywood. At the very least -- the show as attracted many new readers to the series.
I don't believe the show is trying to portray people of color as evil or enslaved. I think they chose the best actors who auditioned for the roles. I have to say that they portrayed their roles very well. If you think about it, many of the main characters are also people of color. I don't want to ruin anything for you, but I really like Ryma in the show. They picked the right actress for the role NOT because she's black.
Nope, you are not the only one who thought that. Show Moiraine seems to be about as paranoid as book Lews Therin Kinslayer. A stark contrast to the cool cookie she was written as in the books. Horses seem to be a trigger for show Moiraine; she makes strange decisions nearly every time she interacts with one.
I'm between this episode and Ep3 as my favourite. Still undecided, I might have to watch the season a few more times. Saying that, S1 was better watching it back, but I'm guessing most viewers won't do this. As per "Seanchan", it is kind of weird that the actual pronunciation as given from the back of the books borrows from the Irish name pronunciation.
Im here for two things and one of them is to see Nerdy lose his shit because horses :D And on the Katie Leung scene, I wish, WISH, they had said anything about the one power. It would have been awesome. But sadly, they missed the spot (again!). If instead of "eidetic memory" ass pull, they went with, the brown ajah has weaves specific for books and texts, because BROWN AJAH! it would have been fantastic. It would have shown how specialization in the white tower brings something to the table. Sadly, she is just that memory good.
I will ask you this question quite directly, Nerdy -- do you believe that it is more racist to attempt to actively identify a person's race and associate that race with specific behaviors in an attempt to subvert a stereotype or is it more racist to actively avoid noticing a person's race and let their behaviors fall however they might like dice in a cup?
@@maxdelpo5578 I think the folks who suggest that trying to be blind to skin color is racist are really trying to reignite the old Jim Crow era segregation or are trying to introduce apartheid to the US. In South Africa -- apartheid separated social class by race; it put white people on top (who were the minority in South Africa), indians hailing from India underneath, and the native black residents majority at the bottom of the social class structure. It influenced the South African people's access to housing and loans and all sorts of things. It was a horrible system to live under -- particularly for anyone at the bottom of the social class structure. Separating social class and access to rights and resources by race is an extremely regressive thing to do. Anyone who proposes that we should separate access to rights and resources by race is just as bad as Jim Crow ever was; in my opinion.
I think a decent portion of your enjoyment of this episode can probably be attributed to deciding to compare less to the books. I think if you had this mentality earlier on you more than likely would have enjoyed those episodes a lot more.
I would agree with this. In the books; Turak is also shown to be quite intelligent and has a strong interest in historical artifacts. This particular kind of a hobby requires a fairly steep degree of erudition. Is he evil? Not really. Just a regular Seanchan member of 'the blood'. His little scuffle with Rand and company in the books is really a case of him trying to personally deal with burglars breaking into his place and stealing the one artifact that would have handed the new continent to his Empress on a silver platter.
One of the things I enjoyed about the Seanchan as a whole is the moral complexity. They embrace slavery which is wrong and what they do to the damane is an abomination. But for most Seanchan that is what they were raised to believe is the natural order of the world. Saying they are all evil would be like saying every political leader in our world up till at the very least the 1800's was evil as slavery was quite commonly practiced then and they made no moves to abolish it. Compared to Suroth Turak was actually honourable by the standards of his culture. Does that mean that we should approve of all his actions? No, but I don't think its fair to say he is evil but more he does evil through ignorance. @@gilian2587
@@dominicbrennan1882 Doing evil through ignorance? That's an interesting interpretation. It implies that given enough time -- all of our actions can be seen through that lens. Does this make the future civilizations any more virtuous than their predecessors? We have a consistent improvement in technology over time. But I do wonder if ethically we really have been improving over time at all? For most civilizations held by our species; we generally don't seem to eat foreigners these days. Animal sacrifice seems to be mostly frowned upon -- although; peta would argue that our farming practices with respect to cattle and chicken are still far too brutal. I think slavery would be a lot like cannibalism in this sense -- it fails on the 'do unto others as you would have others do to you' metric quite handily. Charismatic leaders can still whip us into a zealous furor that leads to demonization of 'othered' scapegoat ethnic groups which leads to retaliation much needless pain and suffering. And different civilizations seem to come to different conclusions about what should be considered virtuous and what should not; which would seem to imply that there exists no universal metric. I would perceive any claim that our current civilization is substantively more or less virtuous than it's predecessors with a sense of dubious skepticism. I will accede to the point that we generally don't try eat foreigners anymore and this is a very good thing.
@@dominicbrennan1882 In fact; I think I would argue that our species, humankind; is still a rather savage and ignorant species. We have much reason to fear judging others for we will be judged by others ourselves.
@@bidossessi Those who haven't read the books really have no good way to know how to spell character's names. : ) Robert Jordan even exacerbated the problem by providing names with various permutations of spelling that have different pronunciations -- case in point; Siuan Sanche versus Saine Tarasind versus Seaine Herimon. One might have a certain vowel-composite-to-phoneme bias -- but who knows how closely it reads in the readers head to the author's head. We have pronunciation tables -- but very few of us even go out of our way to figure out what those pronunciation tables say about a new name we hadn't seen yet. Do we even know if the pronunciation table is complete with all the names that show up in the books?
@@bidossessi Umm... honestly; I always pronounced her name as: See -- oo -- on Shawn -- ch -- ay I have no idea if that's correct. I am one of those people who usually ignored the pronunciation tables. It seemed to have the least cognitive overhead while I was reading.
This is your best reaction video for season 2 yet! I laughed so hard with you guys. I have to say, I'm DEFINTELY team Lanfear and my husband is team Ishy.
@@AndyLuu72 I think Ishy's philosophy is interesting. I don't agree with it necessarily -- but I appreciate it from a theoretical standpoint. Lanfear... she's an outstanding character. She's different in the show from how she is in the books; but very interesting. Funny thing... the show actually nailed the Aiel humor with Aviendha. She didn't look like Aviendha from the books; but her behavior *felt* like Aviendha from the books. Given that the alternative might be a Denise Richards lookalike who couldn't act her way out of a paper bag; I'll take it.
Wow, what an amazing outfit Clarus. Thanks for your great reactions and post-show discussion. I agree that the depictions of warders and victimized characters of color is problematic.
Regarding the colorism: I said the same thing in season one. I don't mind Valda being a black mustache twirling evil villian... for racial reasons I do not want him to have the same plotline with Morgase AT ALL.
Thank you for coming into this episode with a new perspective! I understand your frustrations, being a book reader myself. So glad you enjoyed this episode!
Do the Seanchan not sound American to Americans/Canadians? because honestly every single one of them is so painfully American to me. And it's especially jarring because I'm not used to hearing those accents in a fantasy setting. It's like if I hear an Aussie accent overseas - I always flinch.
Nerdy: "Please edit this well. I am begging" Proceeds to watch what appears to be 2 drunken raccoons wrestling with diapers in the bottom of a dark dumpster during an earthquake. Nerdy: "That wah... That was alright."
Nice that you enjoyed the episode, but you really enjoyed it after you said you were going to stop thinking about the books. Is that a good thing to do for a show that is trying to be an adaptation? Also, even though it was nice to see the protagonists controlling more of their fate, Rand just keeps getting drug around listening to the last person he talked to rather than choosing his path.
I really think the first few episodes are wonky due to Barney Harris. They needed to add everything explaining where he was and eventually reunite him and then doing so cut time from other stories they needed to tell. I believe they had written S2 and needed to rewrite large chunks after Harris left and I think that's part of the damage. I REALLY wish they'd just given them an extra episode or two this season to account for that mess.
They started filming season 2 without Mat. Donal Finn was only cast when they'd already been filming for a couple of months. So they had to write the beginning of season 2 in a way that they could easily add him in later in reshoots. That's why he only has isolated scenes with Liandrin and Min in a closed location for most of the first 3 episodes
I wish Americans/Canadians would stop focusing on color so much. I think it is quite offensive tbh. Uno died horribly, more than anyone in the show. He was quite 'white'. Alvaro is indeed considered to be 'white'. Most ppl would consider Fares to be white as well (we do in my country). Also, what does that matter? If we want racism to go, it would be a good idea to stop talking about skin color. Idris Alba, Morgan Freeman agree. The ppl on the show are all good actors, not because of their skin, but because of what they do. I love Fares. I don't give a bleep how light or dark his skin is. Ryma was awesome. Turok I didn't care for in the books, same in the show. Every single bit of my feelings towards those characters have got to do with exactly that; their character.
@@angelavm84 exactly! I find it funny that those that most claim to want to end discrimination are so adamant in classifying people by race and ethnicity, and with absurd criteria for what is "white"
@@adrianinsaval I believe that this is exactly what Martin Luther King Jr meant when he said, 'I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.' In my mind; it is not the color of the skin of a person that really matters; what really matters is the MIND behind the skin. In the books; Robert Jordan made it very clear that darkfriends existed in every culture and in every organization for every race and creed. I actually liked show Elyas; the writers didn't give him much to do, unfortunately -- but the same could be said of Mat, Perrin and Rand. He was kinda emitting Twilight New Moon Laurent vibes with the way they portrayed his visuals. Elyas seemed like he could have been the grizzled old wolfy ex-Warder from the books.
I think this show has been here the whole season, the change is more in how youre viewing it than the content itself. Fingers crossed you keep this attitude its way better than the nitpicking!
The plot of Wheel of Time doesn't actually matter, Jordan plainly didn't write it for the plot. He wrote it for the philosophical themes first and foremost, which informed his choices in cultures and political factions portrayed, and then picked characters to illustrate the culture and politics, and only then decided on the plot, last. Like Tolkien, he could have written each bit of plot a hundred different ways. Tolkien had like 70 years to rewrite and rewrite to hew closer to his themes and philosophy. Jordan obviously didn't, as he was publishing quickly initially. There are so much more interesting things to talk about discussing the Wheel of Time tv series. I don't care how they adapted plot points, I do care how they adapted the ACTUAL story, which is in the themes and moral questions.
How do you think they're doing; so far, with respect to adapting the themes and moral questions in the books? Are they maintaining themes consistent with how Robert Jordan wrote about them -- or are they trying to invent a bunch of their themes?
I agree about the Seanchan, for me as a non english book reader, I called them the Se-an-chan (with the first e as in electric). If they were to be pronounced as in the show, it should have been written chanchan. I did always pronounce the Damane, as it is done in the show.
I tried to hint at you guys that the first four episodes were all setup, writers moving things into places, seeding clues and answers to questions viewers wouldn't even know to ask till the end of the season. The writers also wanted to start the season with the 5 as passive observers till they realize they have to take destiny in their own hands and actively start doing things. It was an intentional choice by the writers.
I don't think it would be a wise decision to change the actress's natural hair color just to make it closer to the shade most associated with white people like Rand's, because it would be more in line with a fantasy story. I like that black people with red hair can see themselves in a fantasy.
Why do you obsess so much about the horses in the Ways? Maybe bad guys have some kind of protection or good guys just don't know everything. Or the writers messed up.
Because internal consistency matters to some people. Fine if it doesn’t to you but these details can kill my interest in a show even if it’s good otherwise
@@christyrann7739 what if it's consistent and we as the audience just don't know all the details yet? It definitely can be just a stupid retcon but I hope otherwise
i might have enjoyed this saga if it was named by another title, the only thing this has incommon with the wheel of time is the names of the characters th e problem is they want to take an already loved an cherished book or games and change everything and think that weas fans will alway care about these beloved characters and not care how they whore them out or change their souls oressence i've cryed laughed felt sorrow with these characters respect them how we love them Pleeas please take note from the the Last Of Us As Ellie so eloquently phrases what the f..k
My favorite part of this episode was the moment I realized how carefully Aviendha avoided even touching the swords in that fight, she could have picked up a weapon multiple times but didn't till the axe, I love that attention to detail
Lanfear's hair:
You mentioned her long hair from when she was released and also if she had had shorter hair.
It is generally accepted that when Lanfear is in the Dreams her hair is short, and while she is in the waking (awake?) world her hair is longer. So it's a way to help keep track of what is in T'A'R and what is real!
The “Oh shit!”…”OH FUCK!” with Ryma was perfect 😭
I know! The fact he remembered such a small detail from book 2 is impressive
Ryma of the Yellow Ajah; remember her name. So sad.
@@tarisedai9573 The worst part comes back around much later. Winter's Heart I believe.
@@thane9 Yuuuuuuup 😬
The Seanchan actors were told to all use American accents, but seanchan is so huge they said they could basically all use whichever American accent they want and just go with it. so they might all sound a tad different.
I want a Minnesotan accented Seanchan now.
They decided on Civil War era accents though.
@@spacechampi0n now Jane seymour and joe lando as the Empress and Emperor are my headcanon.
With most of the actors UK-based, that makes sense. I was told by an actor friend that UK actors are told to learn a single U.S. accent to start and will use that unless they are forced to train another. It can lead to rather amusing results. I saw a Royal Shakespeare Company production of The Man Who Came to Dinner, which is set in Ohio. The characters that supposedly came from Ohio included one who sounded like a southern belle, working class Bostonians, and an awe-shucks Jimmy Stewart-type.
I think Ishy is being the Father of Lies and using reverse psychology on Perrin to make him terrified of being a Wolfbrother. He doesn't want him to embrace his strength.
There's good reason to be concerned about being a wolfbrother. For some people it can work out. For other people... they can become more wolfkind than humankind.
@gilian2587 as a book reader I understand that, but I was basing my comment on purely show content :) we've met Elyas and, while he is definitely very wolfy he is still perfectly capable of interacting with humans - even if it is done so very reluctantly. We haven't seen a Noam character yet to get really worried about in regards to possibilities with Perrin.
@@tarisedai9573well based on the show content you could also read it as Ish making the wolfbrother powers as a thing of the dark one
When I saw the episode, it didn't feel like Rand was going to the dream world when he went to sleep, but that he opened himself up to Lanfear bringing him there.
The issue with action scenes in Hollywood lies with the stunt team and the cinematographers not sitting down together from day 1 to plan out the fight as a single coordinated team. Instead the stunt team plans something, shows it to the cinematographers and let then decide how it's shot. There's a WoT season 3 behind the scenes where the stunt team showed off one of their fights. It looks great with just one camera phone filming it, but I wonder how the same fight will be like in season 3.
So, that’s hardly universal. Many, many productions collaborate with the stunt team from the beginning.
Choreographers will work out story points in the fight, they’ll figure out the physicality, they’ll shoot it (either with or without DOP/director input) and edit it, and the visualization is shown in meetings to discuss how it fits into other aesthetics (set, lighting, etc.).
Those productions end up with great fight scenes which cover narrative or character points and fit into the cinematic language of the film or show.
Setting aside the John Wick films for obvious reasons, this includes everything from Pirates of the Caribbean to Jack Reacher to The Expanse (for instance: Clarissa vs Naomi feat. Anna was talked to death with stunts, camera, and director before they even started practicing).
“Hollywood” (which I presume is your euphemism for Western film and TV, not actual Hollywood), as an industry, knows exactly what makes a good fight scene. The problem lies in individual productions.
And I won’t even say every production with choppy editing are making poor choices. Sometimes things happen and you’re stuck with a Taken edit situation. Actor skill, availability, scheduling, creative changes, etc.
But, yes, sometimes it’s simply a poor process which ignores all of the above and a great sequence is drowned in poor choices on set and the editorial response is to Ginsu it to pieces. You’re not wrong there.
Nonetheless, your comment reads as though it’s a systemic problem when it is not systemic. Every production can make the choice to hire the right people and ensure a collaborative process is undertaken. It isn’t systemic. It’s particular to individual productions (and sometimes individual episodes depending on the director).
The moment Sheriam said she didn't remember, I also thought they were revealing a hint about her as well....until the talked about compulsion. I think Verin already knows about the black ajahs, she's just collecting her list of who they are.
This is actually still my favorite ep of the whole show by a tiny margin. So much lore
I feel like Amazon is holding the editing back in a MAJOR way. They had the same issues with Rings of Power.
Studio interference -- oh you cannot have a scene like THAT in THIS day and age. That kind of thing?
'Seanchan' makes sense to me because of how the name 'Sean' is pronounced.
They DO all have American accents but from different places in Seanchan. And Turk in the books knew the horn and knew how to open the box. She can’t lie. They used the oath rods to bind prisoners. The prisoners didn’t need to be able to channel. She released the bond before she went to the Eye, but the oaths stay. Not only do they have horses, but LIANDRIN is shielding the three most powerful channelers in 1000 years by channeling in the ways! What the heck? Dark One protection? Although I am sad you didn’t enjoy the previous episodes. They are nearly perfect ….but maybe you’ll see that in a second watch. Same with Avis fight. The editing problem is the super quick pace in order to cover everything but you think it’s too slow and doesn’t cover enough. Not sure they could do anything right for some book readers. It’s good that only show viewers get it and love it.
Wasn't Lanfear just waiting for Rand to fall asleep for her to pull him in? It wasn't Rand who got himself in just by going to sleep
Team Lanfear? I hear you. I may have to switch from Team Liandrin. 🙂
Seriously, though, you're right. The villain casting is impeccable.
I have not read the books, but man this season was good, the first one I couldnt connect entirely, but this one has been an absolute blast cant wait for season 3, I definitely did not see a change between chapters 4 and 5 as you guys did, maybe its because I havent read the books, but besides S2E01 which was a bit on the weaker side, the entire season 2 kept me engaged.
Welcome on board
Loved to see you fired up by an episode this season!!! I don’t disagree that Aviendha’s hair could be a more intense red, but the actress Ayoola Smart is a natural red head, and I can see why the production decided to work with her real hair, Sun bleached highlights and all, as opposed to dying her locs, or trying to wig over them and fix it in post.
Adeleas and Vandene were retired in the books as well and since Verin is also replacing Vandene, she had to be retired...
In the books there is Cadsuane and the twins Adeleas and Vandene who are retired. In the show, Verine has been mixed with one of the twins.
And Adaleas is Verin’s spacey side.
We were sure that Clarus would say I want that outfit. 😂
Great reaction! I’m so glad you enjoyed this episode. I agree it’s where the plots come together Lanfear is just awesome, Verin playing detective instead of the girls is a great choice for me. I’m sure you’ll love the next episode too I’ve just rewatched it and It still hits me hard with emotion
Lanfear is watching for Rand's dream because she had months to manipulate his dreams before so she knows it. She can pull him into TAR (she knows how to do that) or just manipulate his dream as she wishes as soon as he enters a dream.
I think Ayoola's hair is naturally red.. also many Aiel are blond but red is predominant.
Rollercoaster is the right description. The first 3 and a half are the climb. The rest, is the true rollercoaster.
Galad's price for Perrin was "to fight for the light in the last battle with everything he has" to paraphrase it
Fun fact: Horses can run without riders.
Like, you don't have to *kill* the horse so no one can ride it after you. You can just bring it with. Seriously.
Killing the horse was more about leaving the clue for Lanfear that they were fleeing on horses and have her chase after the horses that Rand and Moiraine abandoned soon after leaving Lanfear heading off in the wrong direction.
I felt like the Seanchan all did have American accents. Some Southern, some not, but all American, Turak and Suroth included.
This episode felt the most like it capture the Wheel of Time (books). I loved this one, just like you.
They had Texan accents
That’s literally why they’re they “Shawn-Chan”
Dude wait till episode 6... like... what happened this season. This is NOT the same show as season 1 lol...
Its so great to see you starting to enjoy the show for what it is. 🎉
Are you two planning on a reread soon? (Maybe without book club so you can go at your own pace)?
It was wonderful to see you laughing and smiling while you watch.
I am very happy for you.
This season in my opinion is quite good and a massive improvement. Many of the editing issues with the show is due to a lot of stuff being cut due to time
Galad tells Perrin the price in the middle of the battle Perrin saves Galad in. Perrin rides down and saves Galad, Galad says "I bet you think this will sway my judgement", Perrin replys "It better" and Galad laughs and then tells Perrin the price is 100 gold to the families of both Whitecloaks he slew, and that part of the price is Perrin fights at the Last Battle. Perrin accepts, and that is what drives Byar to attack him and Dain defend him.
Once I accepted that the show was completely detached from the books and stopped expecting any connection at all I enjoyed it a little more.
The peddler seems to be showing up just about everywhere. He even was at the Dark Friend Social with Ishi in episode 1.
100% I really want them to focus on writing and editing for s03. This show could be so good if those 2 elements were even average...
Rafe at one point mentioned they actually had to rewrite all of season 2 after they replaced Mat's actor so I think the struggle with Mat's arc was they were forced into trying to get him back to where they wanted him instead of where they were forced to put him.
Just being honest with how I've been feeling, I'm not trying to hurt feelings or anything. I've been struggling a bit with these previous reactions. They have been a bit draining to watch in a lot of places. I don't mind differing of opinions or even someone not liking something I like.
That's fine. it is harder when there is so much negativity around something that isn't a change from the books but is misremembered and thought of as a bad change and it goes on and on at length. And the negativity from that snowballs into the next. That kind of misplaced negativity isn't entertaining. And it wouldn't be that bad if it wasn't a large majority the time/problems. There are entertaining moment, especially when some actual analysis of things or exploring what something might mean is done, but during the spoiler talk of the last one i constantly found myself looking at the time left just kinda hoping it was over soon but kept on seeing ~30 mins left.
I don't want feel that way because I love listening to your reactions and insights. I decided to skip to this episode because of the title after a few days of waiting. I'm hoping it feels less chore-like/draining and gives me the energy to go and finish previous one. Your stuff rarely feels draining so i have hope.
Nerdy I know you often read the comments and sometimes can take it hard when people don't find the video entertaining, hopefully you can see where I'm coming from and I'm not trying to do that. But I wanted to explain. I like you guys. Anyway I'm gonna keep watching (commenting before starting). Much love.
Yeah i think the implication is that Moraine was just wrong about horses and the Ways.
The reason this episode is so good is because there are actual source story beats. Even though they aren't 1:1 they are there and I loved every scene that was ripped from the books. That said, this was the only episode that felt this solid and the writer/director of this episode deserve an applause for trying their best.
The nails of the Seanchan are lacquered, that's how they can grow them, reinforcement.
I'm glad you both decided to stop comparing the show to the books so closely, and I think it's part of why y'all enjoyed this ep more. Comparing is fine, but when it takes away from enjoyment from one or the other, it isn't. Enjoy the ride! It has surprises for us book lovers too. Great reaction. Knew you'd love Lanfear's outfit in the end.
As a book reader, there are times that I have LOVED not knowing what was gonna happen. Surprises. There have been moments that I truly liked that this was different.
Unfortunately, bad writing is bad writing regardless of whether it follows the books or not. Changes have been made (previous eps and the rest of season 2) that flat out contradict the very themes, character and world building of previous episodes. I won't say more specifically regarding this season so as to avoid spoiling.
The issue I have is when characters are changed for literally no reason, for pandering reasons, or when there is little to no characterization or character arcs going on. I think that for most of us book lovers, the casting and the changes themselves were never the issue.
The issue was lack of characterization of the literal main characters (Perrin, Rand and Mat in particular, but even Nynaeve), the wasting of time on plots and characters that literally have nothing to do with the main story (Steppin or Alanna/Warders or Lan/Moiraine manufactured drama) when the time budget is so tight, and the random thoughtless changes that will affect major points later on (the shadar logoth evil against the DO evil being the impetus for cleansing saidin, the way the ways open and close, the *finn and Mats memories, and many more).
Above all, it's the terrible pacing and lack of character arc/agency of the main characters that most irritates me and prevents me from enjoying it for what it is. The series cannot have its cake and eat it too. It cannot depend on book reader knowledge or background information as a way to gloss over and not explains stuff and then make changes to the background source information. I shouldn't have to do homework to watch and enjoy the show.
So the show, for what it is, is struggling and I fully blame Rafe, not Amazon. Sure, Amazons should have given more money and more episodes.
But I have said it repeatedly: until Rafe can use the budgeted time he already has more effectively- can stop wasting time on irrelevant stories/characters/plots AT THE EXPENSE of the main story/characters- more episodes means nothing.
Just as important, he needs to stop undercutting any characterization and world building he HAS done in previous episodes just to produce a momentary and pandering fanboi squee moment that does not hold up on rewatch. It's literally the equivalent of the Star Wars sequels pandering "memberberries" for moments that are SIMPLY NOT EARNED.
All of this has nothing to do with fidelity to the written books.
@@ianohlander6001 Well... the Expanse is really really good, at least. Unfortunately -- I never read those books. As much as I like science fiction; I have not read as much science fiction as I am in fantasy. I seem to read a lot of mixed fantasy and science fiction -- and of that; very little from within the past 15 years.
@@ianohlander6001 I just realized I didn't speak to anything you wrote. I read everything you said; and I *do* agree with your assessment of the Wheel of Time show. I also admit that it is very difficult for many of us who have read Robert Jordan's books to let go of those books. A common example of an unfaithful adaptation that I always go back to is Jurassic Park. It is an adaptation. It is an outstanding movie. It is also an unbelievably unfaithful adaptation of Michael Crichton's book. Contrast that with the Wheel of Time show. It is an adaptation. It is a sometimes quite bad to mediocre to decent show. It is also an unbelievably unfaithful adaptation of the Wheel of Time books.
@@gilian2587 This is spot on. It's not necessarily that it is different. I like the idea of an alternate turning. It can work.
And there are characters and plot changes that frankly i ADORE because either they fixed a weak spot in the books.
RJ SUCKED at writing romance. He used authorial fiat- in the guise of taveren- to declare people were in love and BOOM! They were in love. He didn't show how the love developed. BS did a great job of turning Failie and Perrin into a real couple that you felt loved each other.
The series has done a good job of showing some of the romance. Egwene and Rand actually seem like they love each other. This makes everything Rand does in book 2 (risking everything to save Egwene from the Seanchan) more understandable. And it makes how their relationship devolves and morphs all the more sad.
We were TOLD that in the books, but from the get go, it never really played. Now I'm not sure how I feel about them having a sexual relationship yet. I think it may undercut later scenes (the igloo). But over all, the romances are much better.
the villians are much much better. All of them. Fain is being used wrongly. And STUPIIDLY, they have included certain Fain acts (the Myrdraal killing at the village) without putting it into context or showing what it means. Without Fain having the dagger and merged with Mordeth, what the hell was that? There appears to be NO sign of that plot.
So the fade nailed the wall becomes MEANINGLESS FAN SERVICE. Quotes or scenes from the books DEVOID of any context or meaning.
Cheap and pandering.
The show tries to establish rules of how things work- either explicitly or by showing. (Next episode is a BRIALLIANT example of this and probably the BEST of season 2).
But Rafe can't help but undercut ALL the work he has done- all the rules and characterization over the previous episodes, going back to season 1- and then throw it away to create cheap pandering fanboi squee moments.
And in the moment, you are like "Yeah! awesome!" And then you think 'wait a minute...how is that possible? wait? this violates everything we just leaned." Or "why isn't this character acting like they have SHOWN themselves to act from multiple previous episodes? What are they doing?" Or "How is this possible? We just same a similar situation- more pronounced actually- and yet this time this can happen? How is that not a contradiction?"
I'm being vague, but they are very specific points I am making.
That's Rafe's problem. And no, I DO NOT believe the showrunner or writer have plan and will explain it.
They've already swept stupid stuff under the rug. Loial getting stabbed. How Fain made it to Fal Dara. Horses in the Ways.
They just put their hands in their ear....or waved their hands at the audience in jedi fashion and tried to will the viewers to forget what happened previously.
I want to make it clear. I love the casting. avhienda's look DOES bother me a bit as she really doesn't have the Aiel look that Rand does that apparently is so very obvious. hopefully they can fix that a bit. But she is great. And so are ALL the rest.
The costume designers and set people and music are great. I wish the world had a more lived in feel, as we see in the Star Wars universe, LOTR, or GOT. Things not so clean or pristine.
But the production is FANTASTIC.
And there are some great writers on the show. But the director (not episodic but of the series), the man with the vision is Rafe. And he just seems to have a problem trusting the material or the characters. And he tries to force the story and characters into places they DONT need to go. He focuses on things that dont need it, especially when it comes at the expense of the core characters and story.
This is why I dont think extra time or money from Amazon will matter. If season 3 does the same end of season fumble, I think I am done with it. And I don't know that the viewship is there.
Rafe needs discipline. He should study the people who make the expanse or Silo or Severence or the Boys. They are brutal with their writing. They trim the fat and tighten the focus as much as possible.
they keep the story and people in focus, not their own egos.
@@ianohlander6001 The books exist -- and they have some really outstanding ideas; even if some of the artificial internal war of the sexes dialogue and it's ensuing drama didn't work very well most of the time. Even with Robert Jordan's "these two characters are in love because -- well the wheel will as the wheel wills". Not everything the show does is terrible; and I suppose that should probably be more than should expect to come from hollywood. At the very least -- the show as attracted many new readers to the series.
I don't believe the show is trying to portray people of color as evil or enslaved. I think they chose the best actors who auditioned for the roles. I have to say that they portrayed their roles very well. If you think about it, many of the main characters are also people of color. I don't want to ruin anything for you, but I really like Ryma in the show. They picked the right actress for the role NOT because she's black.
I was waiting for your reaction to the horses in the ways lol
Wait on second thought, maybe we should form a villain squad fan club. The did make great villains for sure.
Looking forward to your reaction to episode 6.
"..but...but...horses can't go in The Ways!" "Consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds." :)
Liandrin is a darkfriend. She does not care about horses, or anything except herself.
Also... Moiraine may not have known what she was talking about when she stated that horses can't go into the ways. : )
More likely it was Bela going 'no bloody way' and compulsing Moraine. :)
@@mndrew1 Bela was already dead in the show by this time. Bela died in Shadar Logoth.
You guys are gonna LOVE episode 6
The second half of season 2 *really* takes off!
Am I the only one that thought bringing the extra horse with you is preferable to slaying it?
Nope, you are not the only one who thought that. Show Moiraine seems to be about as paranoid as book Lews Therin Kinslayer. A stark contrast to the cool cookie she was written as in the books. Horses seem to be a trigger for show Moiraine; she makes strange decisions nearly every time she interacts with one.
13:02 i hate to say this, but i think it was less of the show becoming better, and more of you getting out of your own way, and letting the books go.
Blue mountian state reference!!!!!! I would so watch your reaction to that show 😂
I'm between this episode and Ep3 as my favourite. Still undecided, I might have to watch the season a few more times. Saying that, S1 was better watching it back, but I'm guessing most viewers won't do this.
As per "Seanchan", it is kind of weird that the actual pronunciation as given from the back of the books borrows from the Irish name pronunciation.
Im here for two things and one of them is to see Nerdy lose his shit because horses :D
And on the Katie Leung scene, I wish, WISH, they had said anything about the one power. It would have been awesome. But sadly, they missed the spot (again!). If instead of "eidetic memory" ass pull, they went with, the brown ajah has weaves specific for books and texts, because BROWN AJAH! it would have been fantastic. It would have shown how specialization in the white tower brings something to the table. Sadly, she is just that memory good.
I'm 100% team Lanfear. Whatever side she ends up on, I hope they win! lol
So glad you liked this episode! It’s fun to watch these all again
I did have a lot of fun with your reaction/talk with this one 😁
I will ask you this question quite directly, Nerdy -- do you believe that it is more racist to attempt to actively identify a person's race and associate that race with specific behaviors in an attempt to subvert a stereotype or is it more racist to actively avoid noticing a person's race and let their behaviors fall however they might like dice in a cup?
Yeah. It's really an obsession at this point, that create some mental loop.
@@maxdelpo5578 I think the folks who suggest that trying to be blind to skin color is racist are really trying to reignite the old Jim Crow era segregation or are trying to introduce apartheid to the US. In South Africa -- apartheid separated social class by race; it put white people on top (who were the minority in South Africa), indians hailing from India underneath, and the native black residents majority at the bottom of the social class structure. It influenced the South African people's access to housing and loans and all sorts of things. It was a horrible system to live under -- particularly for anyone at the bottom of the social class structure. Separating social class and access to rights and resources by race is an extremely regressive thing to do. Anyone who proposes that we should separate access to rights and resources by race is just as bad as Jim Crow ever was; in my opinion.
The Perrin and white cloaks will make more sense very soon.
So glad you guys enjoyed it ❤
Yassica's a Brown, and you KNOW the first thing that Browns would do is invent a n Ajah secret weave to do perfect copies of writing
I think a decent portion of your enjoyment of this episode can probably be attributed to deciding to compare less to the books. I think if you had this mentality earlier on you more than likely would have enjoyed those episodes a lot more.
The Blood laquer their natural nails.
Liandrin may not know about Sheriam and may have done something to compulse her.
Gives me hope for the quality of season 3
I loved this season. . .I know it was slow burn to start but it eventually went full tilt.
Turok wasn't evil, he was a product of his culture. Not necessarily evil.
I would agree with this. In the books; Turak is also shown to be quite intelligent and has a strong interest in historical artifacts. This particular kind of a hobby requires a fairly steep degree of erudition. Is he evil? Not really. Just a regular Seanchan member of 'the blood'. His little scuffle with Rand and company in the books is really a case of him trying to personally deal with burglars breaking into his place and stealing the one artifact that would have handed the new continent to his Empress on a silver platter.
One of the things I enjoyed about the Seanchan as a whole is the moral complexity. They embrace slavery which is wrong and what they do to the damane is an abomination. But for most Seanchan that is what they were raised to believe is the natural order of the world. Saying they are all evil would be like saying every political leader in our world up till at the very least the 1800's was evil as slavery was quite commonly practiced then and they made no moves to abolish it. Compared to Suroth Turak was actually honourable by the standards of his culture. Does that mean that we should approve of all his actions? No, but I don't think its fair to say he is evil but more he does evil through ignorance. @@gilian2587
@@dominicbrennan1882 Doing evil through ignorance? That's an interesting interpretation. It implies that given enough time -- all of our actions can be seen through that lens. Does this make the future civilizations any more virtuous than their predecessors? We have a consistent improvement in technology over time. But I do wonder if ethically we really have been improving over time at all? For most civilizations held by our species; we generally don't seem to eat foreigners these days. Animal sacrifice seems to be mostly frowned upon -- although; peta would argue that our farming practices with respect to cattle and chicken are still far too brutal. I think slavery would be a lot like cannibalism in this sense -- it fails on the 'do unto others as you would have others do to you' metric quite handily. Charismatic leaders can still whip us into a zealous furor that leads to demonization of 'othered' scapegoat ethnic groups which leads to retaliation much needless pain and suffering. And different civilizations seem to come to different conclusions about what should be considered virtuous and what should not; which would seem to imply that there exists no universal metric. I would perceive any claim that our current civilization is substantively more or less virtuous than it's predecessors with a sense of dubious skepticism. I will accede to the point that we generally don't try eat foreigners anymore and this is a very good thing.
@@dominicbrennan1882 In fact; I think I would argue that our species, humankind; is still a rather savage and ignorant species. We have much reason to fear judging others for we will be judged by others ourselves.
I'm pretty sure they use Horses in the ways just fine in the books?
This is accurate.
Those “rings” are angreal.
I'm also team Lanfear although Igwayne is my fav character
Egwene...😏
@@bidossessi Those who haven't read the books really have no good way to know how to spell character's names. : ) Robert Jordan even exacerbated the problem by providing names with various permutations of spelling that have different pronunciations -- case in point; Siuan Sanche versus Saine Tarasind versus Seaine Herimon. One might have a certain vowel-composite-to-phoneme bias -- but who knows how closely it reads in the readers head to the author's head. We have pronunciation tables -- but very few of us even go out of our way to figure out what those pronunciation tables say about a new name we hadn't seen yet. Do we even know if the pronunciation table is complete with all the names that show up in the books?
@@gilian2587 Are you one of those who call the amyrlin Sean Sanchee? 😅
@@bidossessi Umm... honestly; I always pronounced her name as:
See -- oo -- on Shawn -- ch -- ay
I have no idea if that's correct. I am one of those people who usually ignored the pronunciation tables. It seemed to have the least cognitive overhead while I was reading.
Natasha has super hot chemistry with Ishy too.
This is your best reaction video for season 2 yet! I laughed so hard with you guys. I have to say, I'm DEFINTELY team Lanfear and my husband is team Ishy.
I like them both. I think they're great!
@@gilian2587 Ishy is a hot daddy and he’d be my favorite if Lanfear wasn’t in the picture. 😂
@@AndyLuu72 I think Ishy's philosophy is interesting. I don't agree with it necessarily -- but I appreciate it from a theoretical standpoint. Lanfear... she's an outstanding character. She's different in the show from how she is in the books; but very interesting. Funny thing... the show actually nailed the Aiel humor with Aviendha. She didn't look like Aviendha from the books; but her behavior *felt* like Aviendha from the books. Given that the alternative might be a Denise Richards lookalike who couldn't act her way out of a paper bag; I'll take it.
@@gilian2587 right? I LOVE show Aviendha! I can forget about the hair not being red enough 😂😂😂.
The keratin is strong with these ones
Wow, what an amazing outfit Clarus. Thanks for your great reactions and post-show discussion. I agree that the depictions of warders and victimized characters of color is problematic.
Regarding the colorism: I said the same thing in season one. I don't mind Valda being a black mustache twirling evil villian... for racial reasons I do not want him to have the same plotline with Morgase AT ALL.
Yeah this episode and 3 were the best so far.
YES! Team lanfear all the way she's great
yay! love it when you guys love it :D
This episode is a banger and ep6 it us even better. Team Randfear
I think Eps 5 and 6 of season 2 are by far the best the show has done... Unfortunately, it all falls terribly flat outside of those.
Same director. She also directed the last episode of season two of strange new worlds
Thank you for coming into this episode with a new perspective! I understand your frustrations, being a book reader myself. So glad you enjoyed this episode!
It looks like we're getting FaiGaulviendha with Perrin and I don't hate it. Might tie Perrins Aiel plotline in better.
its just gaul and aviendha put together, and shell end up where she should, faile has been casted for season 3
@@internaut4257 Ahh well. I was hoping they'd get rid of Faile, lol.
Do the Seanchan not sound American to Americans/Canadians? because honestly every single one of them is so painfully American to me. And it's especially jarring because I'm not used to hearing those accents in a fantasy setting. It's like if I hear an Aussie accent overseas - I always flinch.
Yeah that confused me, cos even Turok sounds American to me even if it’s not as harsh as Suroth or his Voice
Nerdy: "Please edit this well. I am begging"
Proceeds to watch what appears to be 2 drunken raccoons wrestling with diapers in the bottom of a dark dumpster during an earthquake.
Nerdy: "That wah... That was alright."
This went over my head... please clarify; pretty please?
@@gilian2587 The scene was shot and edited so poorly, it didn't even look like actual humans were on the screen.
@@funkyd3321 Oh! I get it now; lol! In that case; I love your metaphor!!!
Nice that you enjoyed the episode, but you really enjoyed it after you said you were going to stop thinking about the books. Is that a good thing to do for a show that is trying to be an adaptation? Also, even though it was nice to see the protagonists controlling more of their fate, Rand just keeps getting drug around listening to the last person he talked to rather than choosing his path.
Team Lanfear!
How did lanfear heal herself?
The TP. If you know, you know.
Very carefully...
I really think the first few episodes are wonky due to Barney Harris. They needed to add everything explaining where he was and eventually reunite him and then doing so cut time from other stories they needed to tell. I believe they had written S2 and needed to rewrite large chunks after Harris left and I think that's part of the damage. I REALLY wish they'd just given them an extra episode or two this season to account for that mess.
They started filming season 2 without Mat. Donal Finn was only cast when they'd already been filming for a couple of months. So they had to write the beginning of season 2 in a way that they could easily add him in later in reshoots. That's why he only has isolated scenes with Liandrin and Min in a closed location for most of the first 3 episodes
wait wtf, you consider ishamael and logain to be people of color??
I think in this case you are confused Nerdy. I don't think the show has a problem in that regard,
Fares Fares is PoC, but Alvaro Morte Is just a Spanish white guy.
I wish Americans/Canadians would stop focusing on color so much. I think it is quite offensive tbh. Uno died horribly, more than anyone in the show. He was quite 'white'. Alvaro is indeed considered to be 'white'. Most ppl would consider Fares to be white as well (we do in my country). Also, what does that matter? If we want racism to go, it would be a good idea to stop talking about skin color. Idris Alba, Morgan Freeman agree. The ppl on the show are all good actors, not because of their skin, but because of what they do. I love Fares. I don't give a bleep how light or dark his skin is. Ryma was awesome. Turok I didn't care for in the books, same in the show. Every single bit of my feelings towards those characters have got to do with exactly that; their character.
@@angelavm84 exactly! I find it funny that those that most claim to want to end discrimination are so adamant in classifying people by race and ethnicity, and with absurd criteria for what is "white"
@@adrianinsaval I believe that this is exactly what Martin Luther King Jr meant when he said, 'I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.' In my mind; it is not the color of the skin of a person that really matters; what really matters is the MIND behind the skin. In the books; Robert Jordan made it very clear that darkfriends existed in every culture and in every organization for every race and creed. I actually liked show Elyas; the writers didn't give him much to do, unfortunately -- but the same could be said of Mat, Perrin and Rand. He was kinda emitting Twilight New Moon Laurent vibes with the way they portrayed his visuals. Elyas seemed like he could have been the grizzled old wolfy ex-Warder from the books.
I think this show has been here the whole season, the change is more in how youre viewing it than the content itself. Fingers crossed you keep this attitude its way better than the nitpicking!
#truth
The plot of Wheel of Time doesn't actually matter, Jordan plainly didn't write it for the plot. He wrote it for the philosophical themes first and foremost, which informed his choices in cultures and political factions portrayed, and then picked characters to illustrate the culture and politics, and only then decided on the plot, last. Like Tolkien, he could have written each bit of plot a hundred different ways. Tolkien had like 70 years to rewrite and rewrite to hew closer to his themes and philosophy. Jordan obviously didn't, as he was publishing quickly initially. There are so much more interesting things to talk about discussing the Wheel of Time tv series. I don't care how they adapted plot points, I do care how they adapted the ACTUAL story, which is in the themes and moral questions.
How do you think they're doing; so far, with respect to adapting the themes and moral questions in the books? Are they maintaining themes consistent with how Robert Jordan wrote about them -- or are they trying to invent a bunch of their themes?
Yeah I told you from ep 5 onwards the show improved. Not the best show but yet better than s1
The American accents of the Seanchan is such a cool book detail
I agree about the Seanchan, for me as a non english book reader, I called them the Se-an-chan (with the first e as in electric). If they were to be pronounced as in the show, it should have been written chanchan. I did always pronounce the Damane, as it is done in the show.
I tried to hint at you guys that the first four episodes were all setup, writers moving things into places, seeding clues and answers to questions viewers wouldn't even know to ask till the end of the season. The writers also wanted to start the season with the 5 as passive observers till they realize they have to take destiny in their own hands and actively start doing things. It was an intentional choice by the writers.
I don't think it would be a wise decision to change the actress's natural hair color just to make it closer to the shade most associated with white people like Rand's, because it would be more in line with a fantasy story. I like that black people with red hair can see themselves in a fantasy.
Seanchan chug callogen
The episodes that follow the book plotlines/lore are pretty great. Unfortunately most dont
Why do you obsess so much about the horses in the Ways? Maybe bad guys have some kind of protection or good guys just don't know everything. Or the writers messed up.
I think Liandrin doesn't give a fuck if the horses will die or not 😂
@@DiegoFernandesLima I guess she cares if her job is harder or not carrying the girls
Because internal consistency matters to some people. Fine if it doesn’t to you but these details can kill my interest in a show even if it’s good otherwise
@@christyrann7739 what if it's consistent and we as the audience just don't know all the details yet? It definitely can be just a stupid retcon but I hope otherwise
This one could easily be explained away as Moiraine is an unreliable narrator. Or more specifically -- she's not an omniscient narrator.
i might have enjoyed this saga if it was named by another title, the only thing this has incommon with the wheel of time is the names of the characters th e problem is they want to take an already loved an cherished book or games and change everything and think that weas fans will alway care about these beloved characters and not care how they whore them out or change their souls oressence
i've cryed laughed felt sorrow with these characters respect them how we love them
Pleeas please take note from the the Last Of Us As Ellie so eloquently phrases what the f..k
I'm also team Lanfear although Igwayne is my fav character
(Pst...Igwayne is spelled: Egwene)