EMMY FOR MARIKO | Shogun Ep 1x9 Reaction & Review | FX, Hulu & Disney+
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- Опубліковано 17 кві 2024
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![Crimson Sky... | SHOGUN [1x9] (REACTION)](/img/n.gif)
It's 2024 and somehow "I will chop your head off for you" is one of the most romantic gestures we've had on television.
Same vibe as in the Last Samurai, the most intimate scene is about a lady suiting up Tom Cruise, instead of taking his clothes off like any other movies.
Japanese culture is truly special.
@nont18411 and suiting him up to wear her deceased husband's gear, a man he killed.
Ishido was trying to capture her rather than kill her. Hence Yabushige's panic at her standing in front of the door.
Yes, the 1980s version had similar beats. Mariko tries to leave with ladies, she is blocked, forced to commit suicide, Ishido gives her a pass tomorrow, then attempted kidnapping that night. I will say in the 1980s version, Yobu runs thru the castle several levels calling people out to take out the assassins that are just behind him. Some of the ladies are killed in the process. The remaining ladies, Mariko and Blackthorn are in Toranaga's secret room, and a much larger door is blown with much less explosives. This is one rare case where I actually prefer the 1980s version.
She knew this and stated it outright when she refused Yabushige's suggestion to go to the gate because she couldn't risk being captured.
Yes - and also when he suggested going to the gate and Mariko said she couldn't risk being captured. His face said it all. The plan was never to kill her. She chose that, because she had to either escape or die, and being killed by Ishido was even better. Also, I think Mariko's checkmate move here vs Ishido was Crimson Sky. Wasn't a toll move to title it that way. We just expected something more grand. This is the most amazing show. The acting, dialogue, writing, production, framing - everything.
@@ericsaari2901 I agree about "Crimson Sky", Eric... she set her seppuku for sunset, when the sky would be red.
also the two ninjas literally carrying her out of the room instead of killing her
Mariko walks into Ishido's court wearing a crimson kimono beneath her snow white outer robe. She is Crimson Sky. The kimonos in the show are breathtaking.
yep, crimson sky was not what toranaga described to his generals. another one of his tricks.
I think this episode is Crimson Sky because Toranaga launches his falcon (Mariko) against Osaka Castle. It was a political assault, not a military one. Mariko was victorious.
So many people kept chasing the Crimson Herring; and Crimson Cried when they realized, to late, the truth behind the Crimson Lie: Mariko-sama was the Crimson Sky.
Now all of the Lord’s opinions in Osaka has soured against Ishido and they all have a legitimate reason to change their allegiances or act out on their resentment or call Ishido out on his brutality.
But it will lead to rebellion from the Noble houses which is a part of it. Toranaga now has every Noble house in Japan, and all the Nobles in Osaka on his side now. Ishido can't hold the castle with rebellion everywhere inside.
The difference is what causes you to die. Yeah, you stab yourself to prove that you were going through with it, but then the beheading is what kills you. So, without a second, Mariko is killing herself, but with John seconding her, she's no longer committing suicide, instead, he's committing murder. That's why he says he already seen hell and isn't bothered. HE'S LITERALLY TAKING HER PLACE IN HELL...and that's definitely what one might call a, "panty dropper."
In the viewpoint of a 16th century Christian (which they both are, his faith and hers aren't very different in this point), he's certainly risking his immortal soul, because it's not a given that cutting someone who wanted you to cut their head off dooms you to hell, you can still eventually receive forgiveness, but he's definitely saving hers since there's no way to repent and receive absolution after suicide, they believe that's a straight ticket to hell and he's saving her from that.
He's also going along with doing something her way and respecting her and her culture when she knows he profoundly disagrees with it. Another reason it goes over really well with her.
I agree with mwill. Lord Kiyama was a Christian too. Why would he accept being her second initially if he believed it would cause him to go to Hell in her place?
@@megamonster1234 I think refusal is a big no no. When someone offers it, it is a must. The fact that he didn't show up might have consequences, but I don't know
@@megamonster1234 Because he's Japanese, and they don't accept dumb ass ideas like that even if he is Christian. To him, he's just sparing her from hell. Plus, both of you are being way too literalistic about my comment. I wasn't describing religious dogma, but the direct sense of John's words and Mariko's reaction to them.
Not murder but merciful killing, execution. She has accepted her 'punishment' for not fulfilling Toronaga's orders to leave Osaka. Despite being a converted Christian, she is Japanese first, Catholic second. By accepting her duty she is honor bound to fulfill the order or take her life to absolve the 'shame' of not being able to do as she has promised. Blackthorne being the second is to absolve Mariko of death by suicide, the act that Kiyama bailed on. Women normally would not have a second unlike men. Here, the second 'completes' the act of seppuku in the event that the act is not done properly due to hesitation, change of mind, the knife thrust missing the heart...You saw Mariko tying her knees together, to prevent embarrassment if her legs were to spread apart and to keep her from falling without grace during her death, a beautiful death. The beheading ends any extended suffering, inelegant thrashing, and is the actual cause of death. In the period after this, the ritual became even more refined, for the higher class, you merely had to reach for the knife, leaning forward to pick up the knife exposes the neck, and at that moment the sword strike would complete the ritual, no fuss and efficient. Hara-kiri' opening of the belly' was gruesome and smelly and without the second could lead to the subject taking a long time to die. However nobel Blackthorne was to accept the role of the second, if a young Toranaga ended up hacking away at the neck of the samurai the first time he tried to behead someone, just how did Blackthorne think he was going to be able to behead Mariko with one stroke?
This is the death poem read by Garasha Hosokawa, who was the model for Mariko, when she chose suicide rather than live and become a hostage.
A flower is only a flower if it knows when to fall, and so should humans. Now is the time to fall.
This drama is sprinkled with homages to historical facts.
There is another element to this; severed from its the tree that gave and maintains its life, a flower becomes a possession once it is plucked. Mariko sama has been plucked and tokenized by all around her, even to some degree Toranaga, but at least Toranaga has been up front with her about this.
Mariko’s actions and now death creates tension within the castle so that when Toranaga shows up, he has support from within. She will be viewed as a martyr and people will mobilize around her name/action. Note that when she declared herself before the door, she named herself with her maiden name Akechi
She did it to honor her father
@@nont18411 Yes, she did. The point is until this moment - created because she'd pushed Ishido into a position where her death would undermine his authority - she had wanted death for herself, for her honour and the honour of her family. Now her death is more - it has a noble purpose (Toranaga's plan - create discontent within the castle so that they'll support him when he arrives). When she stood at the door and declared herself as Akechi Mariko she honoured her father, she then called out Ishido for his treachery so that witnesses knew that her death was at his hands and should be avenged, and then she dies so that Lord Toranaga has the martyr that will rally the people and help him overthrow Ishido/the Regents. Mariko is Toranaga's falcon, launched into the sky where she hid in the brightness of the sun until her "attack"
It's more support from without than from within. There are many more Daimyos than we've seen so far, most of whom are neutral in the struggle between Toranaga and the council, many of whom have family that are being held hostage by Ishido. After this, Ishido will be forced by honor to release the people he insists aren't hostages, having accidentally killed one. He has also greatly dishonored himself by killing her/dishonoring her for simply wanting to leave with Toranaga's family. This reshuffles the deck, moving a lot of political support, Daimyo loyalty and soldiers from Ishido to Toranaga in the event of an armed struggle, while giving Toranaga, who publicly goes from nobly willing to surrender for the good of Japan to needing to lead an army against Osaka to avenge Mariko.
@@torisedai4929 あなたの深い読みに感動しました。 特に最後の鞠子が虎長の鷹と比喩したことは凄い着眼点と敬服しました。
Anna Sawai deserves an Emmy and Golden Globe, Critics Choice and BAFTA!
You mean Anna Kawaii?
Mariko was so integral to the show; we learnt so much about Japan, respect, duty, traditions, etc., through her because she taught John so much beyond just simply translating for him. This show is sumptuous, and I just loved Mariko's appearance (particularly the choice of clothes representing what was going on).
Who will translate for John in the last episode especially if there is a battle of some kind
@@SutekhDaSteemrollerFather Alvito
Ishido wasn't planning on Mariko dying. He wanted her captured so she couldn't committ seppuku or go back to Toronaga. Notice the shinobi were trying to carry her out. Yabushige was likely told no harm would come to her or the highborn ladies. They also left Toronaga's consort and new baby alone.
As per usual, Ishido completely miscalculated Mariko's will to serve Toronaga and obtain vengeance for her family.
Mariko is the Crimson Sky. It was always the plan to use her death to force high borns to revolt against a crude low born Ishido. It’s why Mariko declared that it was the act of Ishido as the reason for her death before she gets blown away. It’s also why she refers to her lineage and peasants during her declaration to leave Osaka with Toronaga’s wife and baby. It was a veiled insult to Ishido as he’s a low born.
the moment Mariko set foot on Osaka, Crimson Sky was activated. She is Toranaga's Queen piece on this 3d chess game
Toranaga sent unleashed a 1-woman Crimson Sky (Mariko) to free the hostages. That’s why he asked her if she was ready to do her part. He expected her to die.
I like how Toranaga stated outright that Crimson Sky was a single, violent rush on Osaka to ensure his position as Shogun... And it still was. It just wasn't what we expected. The violence was against one of Toranaga's own, from within Osaka (Ishido). Crimson Sky turning out this way shows how truly clever Toranaga is.
I knew Mariko's fate would be what it was, but it still made me cry for her. This episode was just beginning to end perfection for me! The dialogue, the tension, the sacrifice. A+ and I do hope Anna Sawai gets an award for her performance!
Mariko is Crimson Sky. Toronaga didn't have an army large enough to attack Ishido, especially when many of the Nobles and their samurai would have to join Ishido to protect their families stuck inside Osaka. Mariko has in that episode has shown the other Regents that they have no real power and to the nobles that their families are not under Ishida's protection but are his hostages. Crimson sky was a political war, which will unite fiefdoms, triggering the battle that change the course of history toward the Japan of today.
The change of having Blackthorne proposing to be Mariko’s second is the most romantic gesture among all the renditions of the story, because going back to Mariko’s sacrificing herself at the end becomes a gratitude given back to Blackthorne…
As the official podcast mentions, ladies who are going to take their lives will not have a second as the act is not ‘seppuku’. If they have a second, that is more for volunteering to show support. So changing to a moment when Mariko realises that she actually will not have a second, meaning she will go to hell, cutting back to Blackthorne contemplating on what he sees, then steps up to propose for being her second, not only this is finally his showing of affection towards her not by begging her to live but putting her to rest, also accepting what she truly wants is the ultimate gift he can give her…
Thus, when they were cornered in the storage room, and Mariko looks at a Blackthorne who is using his whole strength to recuse her and others (again, several cut-backs between Mariko’s expression and her POV on Blackthorne’s back), she knows that she has to repay that gift by killing herself to save him, because she knows, if she doesn’t do it, her lover will die, and that’s not what he wants…
One of my favourite episodes of TV in years, honestly. Incredible episode.
As it turns out, Torunaga played us all with Crimson Sky. He saved his most powerful chess piece and used it perfectly to completely destabilise Ishido's power in Osaka. Mariko was Crimson Sky (her costuming does a great job at visually showing that to us too) and she carried out her role perfectly. Especially in the last moments when she had to think on her feet, as the shinobi were not part of the plan. She brought redemption for her family name in her final moments.
John offering to be Mariko's second was an incredibly powerful scene to me, especially after she essentially told him "I care about you, but I must do my duty" with the previous exchange. This was John telling her "I will help you do what you must do, no matter the personal cost to me". I feel like John finally understood Mariko's secret heart between those moments, and when he offered to be her second she knew what that meant for him. It was an incredibly selfless gesture and one that was also incredibly romantic.
EDIT: I love how we're all "Yabushige is the worst now, I'm sad about this". It's so easy to forget he boiled a dude alive in Episode 1 🥲
I was going to make a comment along the same lines but this says it perfectly.
Yes! That's the moment John became a samurai.
Mariko is highborn and Ishido is not shogun. Mariko’s assassination will cause a revolt in the city, like Lady Oshiba said.
Kidnap was his only choice. She couldn’t leave and she couldn’t commit seppuku
Mariko ❤was literally the fuse that ignites the war. It was a “win” for her as well, she died serving the realm, got to join her family in the afterlife and by not committing suicide she became a martyr in the process.
Ishido tried to capture Mariko and use her as a hostage. The motif is an actual historical story in which Mitsunari Ishida attacked Gracia Hosokawa to tried take her hostage, and Gracia, who was a Christian, had her vassal stab herself in the chest and blow up the mansion.
The poem that Gracia left behind at that time
散りぬべき 時知りてこそ 世の中の 花も花なれ 人も人なれ
means
Flowers are beautiful because they know when they will fallen. The same is true for humans. Now is the time for I falling.
Gracia japanese sound like GARASYA
Kiyama not showing up to be Mariko's second; He was probably hoping that the prospect of eternal damnation will stop her from going through with the seppuku.
He was probably ordered by Ishido or Ochiba to not show up.
Toranga knew that Mariko wouldn't be able to leave Osaka. He wanted to put pressure on Ishido. It was clear to Mariko that she couldn't fight her way out and with her announced Seppuko she had essentially checkmated Ishido, as Lady Ochiba summed it up so aptly. Mariko knew that she would probably die in Osaka. I don't think they expected the shinobi to attack.
That’s my read as well. Mariko was the “Crimson Sky” - her murder will lead to Ishido’s hold over Osaka/Japan crumbling.
It's a move that traps them all. It exposes a traitor (Yabushinge), it forces Yoshido to either admit he's holding the other Regents of the Council hostage or be compelled to release them, it sets up a serious disgrace to Yoshido and the other Regents either if Mariko ends her own life or she comes to harm while in their presence at Osaka. By declaring that her master bids her to leave Osaka, Mariko becomes an emissary of Toranaga who is still a noble and still technically a regent despite his notice of resignation, because a full vote of the Council removing him pursuant to that resignation did NOT occur (a point of contention I will admit). This meant that NO harm whatsoever should befall Mariko while a guest of Yoshido. In fact, he can't even characterize her as his captive as that would 1) raise the specter that the rest of the council is like his captive, and 2) violate the rules and standards of decorum and nobility. It would bring disgrace upon him.
By releasing Mariko, it opens the door to the other Regents and family similarly requesting leave, which robs Yoshido of the leverage he needs to remain in power. By preventing the other Regents from interceding on Mariko's behalf, Yoshido has sown the seeds of their rebellion against him. He caused shame to fall on them as well. Thus, Mariko in accepting her death, accomplished what no sword or arrow could...it unraveled Yoshido's iron grip over the Council of Regents, brought disgrace upon his house and left him defeated in a battle that offered him NO HONORABLE outcome.
I have never seen such like a death so worthy and honorable. Mariko was able to rid herself of her father's dishonor, and at the same time, her death will provide an opportunity for victory for her lord "Toranaga".
4:58 The "so many syllables" thing is partly the period-accurate late middle Japanese being "flowery" like Shakespearean English, and partly the subtitles opting for straightforward, succinct translations at the cost of losing a lot of nuance and tone. They could totally have written the subtitles so that it matches or exceeds the Japanese dialogue in length, but it seems the producers didn't think American viewers could deal with that.
The costume designers do all they can with primary colors and house mon but even I get a little confused on whose soldiers are whose sometimes. But yes Toranaga's guards are in brown and gold, as they have been for the whole show. He also frequent wears robes in those colors.
And it might not feel like it, but this is a win for Toranaga. Mariko carried out his instructions perfectly. The point was to force Ishido to either release the hostages or admit they are hostages by killing her/stopping her by force -> leading to her suicide (which will shame Ishido and all of Osaka). Either of which will create big cracks in his coalition of vassals.
The Shinobi planned to capture Mariko and abduct her (and perhaps the other noblewomen), and hide her (or them) away. But now news of her death will inevitably get out, because they cannot (for cultural reasons) just murder Toranaga's wife and the other noblewomen, which will be an even bigger disgrace because Mariko is a noblewoman from a very prestigious and long-running family. Kiyama and Ohno, as Christian daimyos, will be especially outraged by the death of a fellow Christian noble. Ishido is now in a worse situation that he would have been if he just let Mariko kill herself, since he is now on record promising other hostages that they could leave, and she ended up dead at the hands of assassins that everyone will know were his.
As far as what was Ishido thinking, given the risk inherent in this plan... he's sometimes foolish and arrogant. I doubt Ochiba approved this plan. And I think Ishido/the Shinobi underestimated Blackthorne (and didn't expect him to be in her bedroom). They almost had Mariko subdued, but once Blackthorne got to his pistol and shot one of the Shinobi manhandling Mariko, she was able to break free, and at that point the odds of capturing her got much lower.
Edit: and I forgot to mention that Mariko has now martyred herself in the eyes of many Japanese Christians, which will further divide the Christian daimyos (and their subjects) from Ishido.
Blackthorne is essentially taking on the sin of murder, by becoming Mariko's second. In normal circumstance the second is the one that ends the life. Hence the power of his statement of having experienced hell.
And Mariko counters Blackthorne's gesture by saying to wait until she has fallen (actually die) so she will spare him the sin of killing her. Her committing the dagger plunge is a suicide attempt, but the sin of suicide happens at point of death.
That scene was breathtaking. They both showing the depth of their affection to the other.
Shinobi were sent to capture her not kill her, he did not want her dead. So just keep her hostage
Ishido: “We need to capture her…ALIVE.”
Also Ishido: Sent a killing squad with a C4 in a mission
@@nont18411 Sounds like my typical missions in games usually end 😄
@@nont18411 They didn't expect John - and his pistol - with Mariko. That's why they failed to kidnap her.
Lady Mariko is Red Sky. Like Toranaga's favorite falcon, Ishido never saw her coming and now with her death she has unlocked Osaka Castle. Which will force the other Regents to pick sides and Ishido to a battlefield against Toranaga. There's still a lot to pack into one last episode. Cheers, Chris Perry.
I expect the episode to be an extended one like movie length could be wrong
Mariko receiving the crucifix was her first step into her conversion to a Catholic. Father Alvito is a very important figure in her life in the novel. The actor who played Father Alvito spoke Japanese exceptionally well.
Hello Algorithm. The point was to capture Mariko. Then he could play the "She is sick, we moved her to our personal quarters for her health" or some such.
It will be an open secret that Ishido did order up the Shinobi and that lead to her death.
Anna Sawai rocked all the faces, kicked all the asses, and schooled all the fools in this episode
Not sure Ishido was planning to kill Mariko - I think this was a kidnap, to be followed by a 'oh, she disappeared, who knows what happened to her' from the host. This whole thing was being played out for the audience of the hostages from all of the other noble houses held by Ishido. As Ochiba said to the council, if Mariko had been allowed to kill herself, or been killed trying to leave, the other noble houses would rebel. Now she has been publicly killed (remember there were other noble women of different house staying with them that the Shinobi passed over when they were looking for Mariko) who will testify to her murder and the heroic manner of her death. If the other hostages leave en masse, then Ishido losing a lot a leverage and Torunaga gains access to many potential new allies.
The target wasn't Mariko.
Exactly.
To ensure his survival, Yagashige had no choice but to facilitate the infiltration of ninjas into the mansion.
Remember "one condition"
5:14 they’re speaking like antiquated formal Japanese too (a la Shakespearean thee’s and tho’s). Anna Sawai said it was pretty hard to learn in interviews
After watching "Shogun," I learned the meaning of the kamikaze tactics used during World War II.
What? 😂😂 You know this is a very fictionalized portrayal of the samurai and their view of honor, right? This is not exactly what happened in real history at the time. This TV show spectacularly exaggerates seppuku and the suicidal attitudes of the samurai.
Not really. The samurai were long gone at this point. Japan was ruled by fascistic generals. They just abused the tradition to mislead the young pilots to their certain death.
They wasn't going to kill Mariko just hold her hostage.
Mariko was crimson sky.
Ishido just wanted to capture her,not kill her.
If it was the Ninja's objective to kill, they wouldn't have been trying to drag her out of the room. They could have ended her like they did everyone else. They were trying to capture her.
*The other word for a "second is "Kaishakunin";* A kaishakunin is a person appointed to behead someone who has performed seppuku so they dont suffer too much.
So usually after the samurai (here Mariko) successfully stabs themeselves, the kaishakunin strikes them from behind.
*Traditionally, a second was utilized by people committing seppuku for honorable reasons.*
I think it's moreso cultural than Christian beliefs. Cause she asked that other guy to be her second but he never showed up. However, I do agree that by Blackthorn filling in the role to literally KILL her was romantic indeed. Tragically so💔😂 *Shows that he loves her enough to take away more pain/agony before her passing.*
And yes, the Christain belief is that Unaliving yourself will condemn your soul. Period. Taking your own life in whatever means/intent lol. I think asking someone else to unalive you ISNT a loop hole to escaping hell😂 Its like hiring your own murder....Still suicide😂
HOWEVER, the CULTURAL belief for them is that sepukku is okay & honourable instead. So there's an interesting contrast there to think about....
But yeah...at least Mariko didnt end up "going to hell" in the end lol😭
Mariko states to Toranaga that she is of two hearts.
@5:10 would like to comment a little fun fact from an interview with the actress who plays Mariko. She had to learn a more old dialect of Japanese, in which the words and phrases are longer. Thats why it seems sentences seem so long.
You mean Emmy for Anna Sawai:)
Don’t trust the Emmys they didn’t even nominate Patty Considine for HOTD
"What is the difference between stabbing yourself to death and getting your head chopped off?"
"Christianity."
"That is fucking ridiculous."
Ha! ^^
切腹の時、首を切り落とすのは、腹を刺しただけではすぐに死ねずに苦しむから。
この時代の誇り高い死に方なのです。
And then of course the cherry at the end of episode with the deadpan : "well she's not going to hell" lol
Yabu proved he was more two faced and back stabbing than littlefinger. Willing to kill at a moments notice.
This episode is Crimson Sky. This is Crimson Sky. Mariko’s mission was Toranaga’s big move. If Ishido makes her stay, Toranaga wins. If Ishido lets Mariko go, Toranaga wins. If Mariko kills herself, Toranaga wins. If Ishido kills Mariko (which is what Mariko made sure is what it looked like), Toranaga wins. This is “all according to plan” where Toranaga and Mariko are concerned. Yabu’s loyalty (and Blackthorne’s) doesn’t matter, and Toranaga said as much the last episode. They’re predictable, which makes them useful to his plan (you could say they’re “broken to his fist”).
Japanese language is noun and then the verb. If the sentence ends with SHITA it's means I did it. If you hear the word SURU, it means I'm doing it. If you here the word KA at the end that is a question? When Marikosan said "I did" she said watashi o shimashita, which translate to "I did it". Hope that at least makes sense.
Yes. But…She actually said “itashimashita.” Which is the humble form of “shimashita.” (I did). She did not say “watashi” and “watashi o shimashita” means (I did me or they did me.)
@@GavinRegnaert you are right. I heard incorrectly and interpreted wrong as well. Thank you for that correction.
No problem. It’s the Japanese teacher in me that wants to correct. Please forgive me if I was too forward. It’s fun trying to see what they are saying, isn’t it, especially the older style verbs all ending in masuru rather than just masu. : )
@@GavinRegnaert its all good. I just went to school in Japan and pretty much speak it fluently. However, these honorifics gets me stumped quite a bit because it is so different from modern Japanese. The one that I understand that most is the Portuguese priest. But when it comes to someone like Yobushige, man his Japanese is too rough for me.
Nice! And…Definitely! Yabu’s Japanese in the 1980 version is crazy rough.
29:34 That’s the point.
Toranaga (who’s born in an environment of betrayal and murder) can’t trust anyone inside Japan. The only one he can trust is this barbarian pirate from the outside world who has little to no knowledge about Japanese politics.
I love how she asked that council guy to 2nd her knowing with his religion, he would be committing murder and damned like herself.. I also figured he was going to flake out.
Toranaga was the most powerful “individual” high lord. He is not more powerful than the other lords united against him. Ishido initially uses the other lords fear and suspicion of Toranaga to get them on his side against Toranaga. But their alliance is not a strong one so Ishido ties up their support with hostages. If the hostages are released and the other lords can act independently the alliance will break, other lords will join Toranaga and turn against Ishido.
interesting fact, the shot the show in order. I can only feel it adds to the levels of depth of each interaction.
When I watched this, I took a break right after Blackthorn and Mariko had the fade to black moment. Then I got worried when I had the thought of "What was the favor? WHAT WAS THE FAVOR!"
EDIT The sword blow would be the killing blow. While yes, if the blow did not land, it would be killing yourself. SO it was a loophole.
18:41 "Flowers are only flowers because they fall". Translation: "Life is only life because we die"
So many people got duped thinking it was Yabushige going Crimson Sky on manipulative dirt bag regent Ishido & his vindictive sociopath fiancé Lady Ochiba who’s consumed with revenge, & their soldiers but Yabushige was a traitor. He sold out & betrayed Toranaga, Mariko & Angine because he is a sociopath too who feigns loyalty but acts only in his self-interest.
Luckily John Blackthorne went beast mode on the shinobi but unfortunately Mariko was killed. That hurt. Anna Sawai crushed it in her role as Mariko in this amazing show Shogun which is an incredible remake.
They had huge shoes to fill in remaking this show as the 1980’s was highly loved & revered along with the book. So glad they remade it for another generation to enjoy & they didn’t disappoint. If Shogun doesn’t get some awards for the acting, costumes, set design, etc I will lose my mind.
it was the same in the book. that was how Mariko died. the series was just summarized and shortened to show highlights of the book.
Taking a life through an act not in service to God or in self defense is a sin. But you can ask to be forgiven. You can't ask for forgiveness if you're dead. And yes, have a second to make the killing blow would mean she did not commit suicide. It's a technicality.
I've been in shock since Tuesday morning. Yeah, what can you say after this ending?
23:30 I really appreciate Clarus' incredulity here, recognizing the inherent absurdity of the idea that an omniscient god would care more about the fine print than your actual true intentions. Any thinking person can recognize that Mariko is still killing herself, regardless of whether she has a second. An allegedly moral god witnessing this "mortal sin" and concluding "well *technically* you didn't deliver the final blow, so you're good" is bonkers lmao
Not in the sight of Christians in the year 1600. Catholics and Protestants alike. It is bonkers to judge this from a today's perspective.
@@samlanganke1262 We may be living in a post-seppuku world, but we're not in a post-Christian one. Millions of people still think this way. The perspective I'm criticizing is exactly the same today as it was in 1600.
It doesn't have to be about suicide. Pascal's wager effectively begs the same argument - does this god stop caring about what's true with a clever-enough reading of the law?
The god we are talking about is not moral in any way (not giving 1 heart attack to save 6 million of his chosen people). Also all sins are forgivable, enslaving and eating children, only 1 sin is unfogivable - words.
8:37 “this FIT…!”
RED ROSES = BLOOD CRIMSON
WHITE GARMENT = A BRIGHT SKY
Everything that Mariko accomplished in Episode 9 is exactly what “Crimson Sky” was meant to accomplish when it was initially described in Episode 6: “A single, violent rush on Osaka castle that eliminates the council and forms a new government.” I think that Mariko-sama is that “single, violent rush on Osaka castle,” indicating that SHE is the true initiation of “Crimson Sky”… and has been all along.
Toranaga’s plan to put “Crimson Sky” into effect depended on Mariko unleashing a quick and lethal attack on Ishido’s authority right in the heart of his stronghold, but to get her (his most powerful Chess piece) into position, he needed Ishido to feel safe (to feel like he had won), and the only way to do that was for Toranaga to completely convince everyone that he had given up fighting (which the death of his son and his closest friend allowed him to do very successfully).
This also explains why Toranaga seemed to always keep Mariko-sama by his side, serving a dual purpose (as both a translator and his deadliest weapon hidden in plain sight), why he was upset that Buntaro hit her, why he wanted her to make a final decision about her intentions with Blackthorne, and why he refused to let her end her life too soon (until his plan was ready to be unleashed).
“Crimson Sky” is almost like a Shogun version of “R+L=J,” or like Dumbledore hiding Voldemort’s final horcrux in plain sight… carefully preparing it to be sacrificed.
“She showed up, did her fucking job…”
“And then got blown away” 💀💀 I’m dead
14:54 she soon realized this aint no Disney show 🤣
Lmaooo yup, the woman reactors are realizing a trained girl can't beat 5 trained men like the woke shows portray them. In fact, realistically not even a trained man can beat 5 trained men
The shinobi also could have been using fireworks to blow open a man-sized hole to get in to the storehouse...😉
I love the comparison between last episode and this episode in that Lord T would not yield but this Lord did. Shows you their different characters
23:50 Stabbing not means dead automatically, you need couple seconds for hearth to stop, so technically you are still alive. Using a "a second sword" end the life completely. Thus save her from committing suicide technically.
There are even more syllables in the classical Japanese they are using from that period on the show. Modern Japanese is more compact.
Anna Sawai has a great interview with Colbert on the Late Show. She is as charming IRL as she is as Mariko.
It is Crimson Sky. Her death starts it. All the Nobles will now rebel.
As what happened when Hisokawa Gracia was murdered so as not to be taken hostage, daimyo changed alliances to Tokugawa Ieyasu.
the romantic gesture his him preventing her from suffering a long death, like every "second" purpose is for other seppukus. he condems himself by killing her, but she alrdy does too. Bruh
Fuji took my heart, Mariko took my soul!
The Japanese historical figure that Mariko was based on is Garasha Hosokawa. When she was attacked by enemy soldiers, she ordered her men to stab her through the heart with a spear and set the castle on fire to prevent her body from being handed over to the enemy.
This is a true story.
So, I thought Crimson Sky was about a castle burning down.
It's true, John saves mariko from eternal damnation by killing her. Even if she stabbed her own heart, she would not die from it, John would kill her, so she died by John's hands and not from her stabbing herself. And for John he will go to hell for killing a person. Beautiful scene.
No Toranaga isn’t screwed. He’s just won support from the high families because of Mariko’s death. He just rallied them against Ishido.
Speaking of absolute Top Tier seasons of television... if either of y'all haven't seen Season 1 of True Detective, you should totally do reactions for that one!
for the seppuku ritual: she's still not going to hell, she would stab herself but would make sure to have a second to kill her. tho she would be harming herself, she would not die by her own blade.
Intension matters, so she still is killing herself. That is why the actual person she is a stand if for, Hosokawa Gracia, refused to commit seppuku and was killed by the house retainer. The show is playing with Mariko being of two hearts and with the Japanese not fulling converting to Christianity just like the European Christian in the Early Middle Ages.
Tokugawa Ieyasu who Toranaga is based on became Shogun after winning the most famous battle of Feudal Japan the Battle of Sekigahara, hope we get to see it in the show i havent read the book of seen the original show.
The battle was mainly in the epilogue of the book so I'm not sure if we'll see it in the show but I they include it.
Anna's performance is stunning, capturing, touching and heartbreakingly brilliant. Definatley deserves the Emmy award!!! I'm crossing my fingers for her to get it.
13:20 in an earlier episode they were called grays, and they're not supposed to touch a highborn.
I’m not sure you want Anjin as your second. He just learned to hold the sword the other day.
Someone needs to do a supercut of all Yabu’s grunts 😂
The only witness to the side deal Yabushige made is his "aide" the one writing his wills, since he's the one that came back with the offer from Ishido instructing him to let the Shinobis infiltrate Toranaga's compound. So only way to catch him is if his intern samurai turns on him or someone makes him squeal.
13:12 Samurai armor cost as much as a house, much like full-plate armor for knights. Steel armor in general was very costly because iron ore is scarce in Japan.
Long before a Tale of Fire and Ice there was Shogun: loved the 70s mini series and the book is still one of my all time favourites. Toranaga never starts wars, he finishes them, never campaigns to become Shogun, but waits to be asked. Marvelous writing now matched by a masterful TV adaptation. As ever, much enjoyed your reactions
I'm saddened that I got Nerdy's joke that John was "going" "into" the "East" (as represented by Mariko). 🤣
Armor and swords are expensive so you couldnt equip everyone with one and generally Samurai had to buy it themselves unless their Lord gave them it.
I just knew this show commits. When Ishido walked in and stopped Mariko from killing herself I knew that was just a false sense of security.
You know what？ Yabushige’s actor, Tadanobu Asano's grandfather is an American, whose name is Willard N. Overing, born in Winona, MN.
The runners already said there's not gonna be a second season.
Making something good is knowing when it ends.
Of course. It is one book. And it ends with the nex episode.
23:56 - When you stab yourself you don't die for days, when your head is chopped off you die right away.
13:12 Samurai had to buy their own armor. Given that swords were already expensive enough, many just had to wear linens, lol
*Mind Blown / Heart Breaking*
BTW, a Season 1/Episode 9 character-death tribute as in Game of Thrones when Ned Stark lost his head.
P.S. Not sure if I'd have an interest in a Season 2 without Mariko either. I guess I'd have to wait and see (if and when) what the buzz is. Now, if they had a whole season just focused on the antics around the Tea Cup house - and the ladies - on the beach next to the priest's church, I'd be TOTALLY down.
Exactly how I feel. It's the flaw of killing off your best character. The reason I watched the show was for her performance. Might have shot the selves in the foot with this
“Well, she’s not going to hell…”
Is my favorite comment on any of the dozen reactions i’ve seen to this episode.
Mariko is the Crimson in Crimson Sky.
This was crimson sky tho; this is what gives Toranaga the victory
They have almost reached the end of the book, so a second season would require a completely original screenplay. As far as what the second season could be about, following Japanese history, when the Taeko's son comes of age, he (and his mother) will start plotting to remove Toranaga and take the shogunate for himself.
彼女は最後まで生かして欲しかった。鞠子様にはハッピーエンドで終わって欲しかった。ただ彼女の役のモデルは細川ガラシャという実在の人物です。この回のエピソードはほぼ実話です。以下は細川ガラシャのWIKIからの抜粋です。
Ishida Mitsunari (Ishido in this show)of the Western Army tried to take Garasha(Mariko-sama in this show), who was at the Hosokawa residence in Osaka Tamatsukuri, hostage, but Garasha refused. The next day, Mitsunari took a forceful action and had his soldiers surround the mansion. When the vassals told Galasha what had happened, Galasha prayed a little and gathered all the maids and ladies in the house, saying, "I want to die alone, as my husband has commanded," and sent them out. Since suicide is forbidden by Christianity, the retainer Ogasawara Hidekiyo (Shosai) interceded with Galacha, who then set fire to the house with explosives so that no body would be left behind, and committed suicide. His last words of resignation were, "Knowing when they should fall, flowers are flowers in the world and people are people in the world.
08:47 "ochiba" in english is "fallen leaves"
29:30 Many of you Crimson Cried. You followed a Crimson Herring. But realized, too late, the truth behind the Crimson Lie: Mariko was the true Crimson Sky.
Despite my criticism in previous episodes about how Mariko the wife continued to handle her domestic affairs, especially after how the truth of as to why she was kept alive has laready been revealed; I do have all the respect in the world for Mariko, the Retainer. She fulfilled her duty and managed to say out loud what every Lord in Osaka was feeling but were too afraid to say. And she was committed to everything to the end.
(Minor Tangent: I am happy the gate scene was not a "girl-power mopping the floor with all those men" moment) Now all of Osaka's Lords are soured against Ishido; and Ochiba might have to put the engagement on hold in order to Mourn Mariko. Her mission is a success.
Speaking of which, it’s so heartwarming and heart breaking that “Leave us” scene between Mariko and Ochiba. I'm Happy Ruri-hime did not just outright hate Mariko for being her father's daughter; but their exchange was so heartbreaking as they both knew each other so well and what the other was doing and them pleading with each other to make the step to end the hostilities, and saying their goodbyes like that... it was made clear: Ochoba was willing to do anything to continue on living, while Mariko was samurai through and through and was trying to convince her that the duty is what is most important. The fact that Ochiba-Sam’s had to turn away to hide her tears and she can’t maintain her mask )9 fold fence) was just Gold. i think I'm sweating through my eyes.
And Blackthorne finally doing the right thing and deciding to Second Mariko, instead of just dismissing all of Japan's customs and cultures as BS , that was the best gift he could have ever given her. So much so that despite my misgivings about Mariko the wife; their last night of intimacy was completely EARNED; despite all your valid concerns which I mostly agree with.🥹🥹🥹
And thankfully, Ishido stepped in, because Blackthorne was already shown as not capable of properly wielding that sword.
Yabushige's betrayal was to Kidnap Mariko AND not lay a hand on any of the VIPs (it was shown on screen that Shizu and Kiri was not killed when the shinobi identified them in their sleep). They need to make it look like some bandits or assassins got to her while she was sneaking off in the evening despite getting her permits: that was why the shinobi did not kill her right away, but rather were trying to take her away. Mariko became aware of this right away and chose where to meet her end: she did not go to the gate where she would get captured as Yabushige intended. Having grown up there with Ochiba, she knew what would happen when she chose to hole up in the store house.
21:23 -Yeah, or he was beating them for sundown. One of the two for sure. ;)
I agree the show will feel empty without Mariko. But in fairness they have chosen to focus on Toranaga's perspective in this adaptation. Where the book give you everyone's perspective, and the 80s adaptation focused solely on Blackthorne. But I do think this show does an exceptional job of rendering every character in flesh and blood, giving us the time to get to know and understand them.
Mariko is the Crimson Sky.
Mariko "Miyai, would you please take charge"
Miyai "...Leroooooooooy Jennnnkiiiins!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!...."
"I feel like she's actually going to die." Ive seen the original about 40 times. So i suspected what might happen.
Imagine watching a 'normal' show in modern days with Anna Sawai. Wouldn't feel right (after this). The bars are so high now, everything else would be a disgrace.
Mariko does'nt commit suicide. She stabs herself but get's killed by someone else. Thems the rules. :D
Why did Ishido-chan do it? Remember he's about as short-sighted as one can get. He already counted victory over Toranaga-sama how many times now?