Excellent video.. These are the kind of videos that can really save someone a hassle on a Sunday when they’re trying to get a worksaw running for Monday
Great video Richard! We almost stopped carrying MS 201 TCs in our shop because they have been such a PITA. We have one in now that our mechanic replaced the coil, replaced the carburetor, and it still won't run right. He checked the compression and case pressure, both fine. I'm going to have him see which solenoid is on the carburetor and go from there. Thanks for putting this video out there!
The wiring harness needs a closer look under the front of the top handle. The silicone insulation on the wires will stretch while the actual wire may be compromised. I see this several times a year. Saw gets pinched and the climber in his attempt to free the saw can break/stretch the wires. Mtronic needs a strong signal from the coil to the carb. Otherwise it will shut off or act wonkey. Just something else to pay attention to. As far as the pressure/ vac test make sure he's rotating and flexing the crank while it's under pressure/vac. I've had some that would hold pressure /vac while I was on a lunch break but fail as soon as I moved the crank.
@@richardflagg3084 Thanks Richard, much appreciated. I'll have our mechanic look at the wiring harness. He's about ready to throw it in the dumpster out back. Ahh the joys of mechanicing, sometime you hit a bump in the road. Fortunately, when you get through those bumps, it makes it that much more interesting. I kind-of miss turning wrenches, got a few saws to rebuild when I get free off the counter. I appreciate your knowledge, I think the manufacturers should be paying guys like you for your videos. They can't ever seem to be able to keep up with hands on training.
@@richardflagg3084 Thanks for your help Richard, unfortunately we were not able to get the 201 working. My mechanic is 73 and doesn't want to learn any of the new stuff, but he shows up for work every day and can fix most other stuff. I hooked the saw up to the Stihl MDG-1 and went through the process. I seemed to test fine and reset the carb. We replaced the carb, the ignition module, and the wiring harness. I took it out and cut fine on the first run. Then I restarted it and it started stopping right away, in the cut. My guy said he tested the case for air leaks and it tested fine. Upon further inspection I noticed one of the cooling fines broken and another one bent. I think it might have a minute leak somewhere that we're not finding. We gave the saw back to the customer, and he was OK with it. Anyways, we removed any 201 T-CM's off our booking order. We've had a difficult time finding any new mechanics to learn this stuff, but I'm grateful our "Old Guy" is hanging in there for most of the other stuff.
On another note, I think the EPA needs a reality check and lets us keep the tunable carburetors. We just had a massive storm here in California, 3 inches over night with wind. Do they think it's safe going out in the rain with a battery powered saw to take care of downed trees? Not to mention ground water being destroyed by cobalt mining activities for lithium batteries. Green energy isn't that green. The powers that be need to see the big picture of "green energy". Anyways, that's my two cents worth.
Phenomenal video and technician Richard! I have a 201TC that I just finished changing the wiring harness. Was frayed. And started right up , idles great but now as soon as you full trigger rev it dies. You can blip the throttle and it will slowly climb. Really stumped and the only thing I can think of is the ignition coil or this fuel solenoid . It was all rusty when I took the cover off,
Thanks man, great info. I've got a TC here that's doing that. I have a spare coil, but unfortunately both are the 4700, one is a D the other is H. I've already ordered the new solenoid, but now I'm expecting thst it will also need a 4703 coil 😳. Saws were so much better without computers 😉
I misspoke in the video. V3.0 is a 4702. Sorry for the confusion. Technology is going to continue to be a part of life and most of the time, in my experience, it's been reliable. This was a tough one. When the manufacturer says this solenoid is a universal upgrade, and it's not, it makes you question your sanity. Lol!!
i has the same problem with a ms661 which needed new cylinder and piston kit on , this saw wouldn't start , so replaced the solenoid , started , but would not go into reset mode , so had to switch out ignition module , that solved it ,
I have a StihlMS201TC made 06.2015 the serial number on the front of the saw casing is 180241154. It has got white fuel solinoids on the carburettor. It has a good spark and the tank vent is clear the fuel lines seem good tank filter is good l have replaced the wiring harness and fitted a replacement carburettor on it. It was bought as a non starter and it will fire up for about 2 seconds at most on choke or run then cut out and this will recur for 4 or so times then it is dead. The next step is to replace the ignition but l have no idea if that will solve the problem. I don’t have any access to diagnostic equipment and if the saw won’t run possibly this would be of no help. If you have any advice l would appreciate it. Thanks again for your detailed uploaded content it has helped me a great deal so far. Regards Jason.
Hey Richard, awesome video, these Ms201tc definitely need the spotlight, because they just have so many issues and I believe you’re the only YT uploading valuable info on these saws, and I just wanted to know if checking crankshaft play is part of your routine when these top handles come in for repair? Because i get these in daily and 1 out of 3 will have a bit of crank play sometimes just barley noticeable. And sometimes just enough to make you start to question it. Would you consider new seals and bearings for these even thou they’re not a performance issue?
That should be an interesting video, Because I have some that you can barley feel the play just enough to know it’s there. And I find it odd that Stihl service manuals don’t mention crank play other the pressure vacuum testing for the seals because obviously when the seals are done so are the bearing.
There's a fine line. A tiny bit of play is "normal" on a well used saw. When new, there is NO play in the crank. It's only when they are semi-sloppy, and realistically it's not going to get any better. Then it's time to put the saw through a torture test to MAKE it fail. Otherwise it will come back with the same issue. "runs ok but..... and you charged me $$$$$$." It's a give and take with this style of bearing. Ball bearings are cut and dry. If there is ANY play, it's time for a rebuild. Just my .02
Happy to find this video. I have an early MS261CM that is having hot restart issues. I note in the older Stihl tech reference guide it states the new white solenoid is NOT suitable for MS201TC-M and MS261C-M plus a few others. I did ask about that when I purchased my white solenoid and the dealer did not see that in his tech reference. Maybe it is not in the later version? The saw runs fine but it has hard restart after 15 mins. Perfect hot or cold. My coil does have 4700 so I guess same as this video. Have you tried an M3.0 coil conversion on an older 261? I already have a white solenoid so only other thing I know of is the jet is slightly larger in the newer carb?? Maybe the loom as well since there are 2 part numbers.
Yup the 4700 coil is early production. You can either find a NOS black solenoid or upgrade the coil. Hot restart is a classic symptom of a failing solenoid so you're on the right track. I've only experienced that issue on the early 201TCM's not playing well with the white solenoid.
@@richardflagg3084 I just had the version with the black solenoid fail and the technician from whom I buy parts sold me the green one saying that the white was not back compatible. Regardless, saw runs great now and does it's job.
I have a 201 that just came in with a bad air leak. I fixed the problem and pressure vac tested it. No matter what it will not run with the choke on for the reset so pretty much instantly dies. I am about ready to throw the thing in the trash. Lol
Thanks for the video. Yes, there is something going on with my ms362 also. Coil 4705A failed, I replaced it with 4705B, and a white solenoid, it now works. my 4705A coil is stamped RD171 near the bottom, I don't know what it means, R&D maybe ? the new one is stamped RM181 I don't know what that means either.
@@richardflagg3084 It started cold, but would not restart when hot. then one day it died. I got out the Ohm meter, everything looked fine, I tested the old coil, it also looked fine, but couldn't find the upper and lower Ω limits written any where. I replaced the coil, New OEM, still no spark. I took it to a Stihl mechanic, When I picked it up 3 months later (I didn't care about that) it had yet another coil, an a white solenoid with and orange filter. Would a bad solenoid prohibit the coil from giving spark ? He charged 75 dollars, and said I had gaped it wrong ( I didn't argue, (I knew I gaped it correctly, I checked it multiple times) he put on new parts and didn't charge for them). Thanks for replying, and the video.
@@thomasgronek6469A failing black solenoid will start fine, run ok (ish), and will be a bear to restart or idle well when at full operating temp. It's possible the coil was bad, but I feel the solenoid was the culprit. Proper coil to flywheel gap for MTronic saws should be about .008". A little tighter than a cheap business card.
@@richardflagg3084 Yes, I had it set at .008, then 010, then back to 008, but still no spark. Well, it runs now, but I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop. I'm gathering parts to make it non- M-Tronic the next time it decides to break down.
Although I’m sure this video is helpful for those that are experienced with small engine repairs but I’m definitely a novice at this and would have liked a little better camera angle while dis and reassembling the saw. My ms201 tc was left in the bucket of the truck for a couple of days and it rained so the saw was completely submerged in water and now it tried to turn over once but since then it’s getting zero spark. So solenoid? Idk.
Hey Rich! Just found this video. I have a 201Tc on my bench guy said it quit mid cut. He wants it ported after I fix it. Anyways pressure vac tested everything. Piston and cylinder is good. Carb screen is clean. Has good spark. I’ve checked everything mechanically. The serial is 186748076. Not sure if it’s early or not but it has a black solenoid. The plug is soaked like it’s flooding itself. If you hold the throttle wide open it will pop like it wants to start.
Quite possible it's the solenoid. Have a look at the wiring under the top handle and see if the wires have any damage. If they have been stretched the insulation may be intact but the strands of wire may be broken. If it will only pop off but not run, it's not getting a signal from the carb to the coil. Just a possibility, I've only seen it happen a couple of times.
I have the 201tc-m. It's did the same thing until it wouldn't hit at all. Been some time, I miss it. The muffler is messy with oil as well. I wonder if this is what's happening with mine. Any thoughts about that?
My Ram for 90 seconds when it was cold it would not run for s*** when it was hot when trying to relearn I will try the 92 seconds when it cools off and try again but it would not run but for 3 seconds wide open and then died after the 60 seconds I was told to do and I have the same coil as you do
Outstanding information Richard!!! I think this might be the culprit for my 2018 201tc it takes a real pro to pin-point these things out now would this be the same for the Green solenoids as well 🤔 and can sthil still order the black solenoids once again great work 👍
It was a painful figuring that one out. I've only seen the green solenoids on the internet. They were a short lived thing. As far as I know the only solenoid available to purchase at the parts counter is the grey/white one. I have seen the black ones on occasion sold on Ebay as new old stock.
@@richardflagg3084well that's the reason you're the MAN ! I've been wondering why my 201tc won't reset an the things a very low hour saw ! I was using the ultra at 50:1 but because of your findings I've been on the amsoil saber @50:1 so far so good thanks again rich for all you do for us keep on keeping on and on the subject of the green solenoid I can actually get those at my local dealer as I've seen him pull out about 5 boxes and told me the same thing that they were universal but in all honesty I'll take your word anyday thanks for taking the time to respond it shows much of your character 😀
I have a new solenoid coming for my early 201. Not sure on whet ignition coil it has will check when home. Is getting a new ignition coil with new solenoid a solution? Look forward to the video recon you have saved me masses of head scratching! Jimbo
I'm wondering. Did you take a class with Stihl on the M-Tronic units or did you figure it out? I am a repairman at a hardware store that sells Shihl. I have a 262 in the shop that I have had for weeks trying to figure out its problem. (sounds exactly like this 201 in the video.) I have ordered a new ignition module. Replaced wiring harness and carb module, but it just is not right some how. hoping the ignition upgrade fixes it. So I was wondering if you used the computer system from Stihl at all?
Thanks Danny. I do own an MDG1 and rarely use it, but because I don't work at a Stihl dealership, I haven't had any formal factory training. Remember It's still 95% mechanical and 5% Electronic. Regardless if it's MTronic or standard carburetor I still go about it the same way/order of checking things.
@@richardflagg3084 Well, when the dust cleared, you were right! I checked the carb today. I found the fuel pump diaphragm was not seating correctly and the metal filter screen inside the carb was TRASHED, FULL OF JUNK! Put in a rebuild kit and the saw screams. It's great. I was trying to fix M-Tronics and it wasn't the trouble. Thank you for suggestion that I just go back to basics.
@@dannybowman7792 I didn't do anything. YOU did it! One last thing, pull the fuel filter and inspect/pressure test the fuel line. Typically if the carb screen full, there is a tear in the fuel line. Way to go my friend!! Glad she's back up and running!!!!!!
My whiny Stihl comments are gone, replaced with this more intelligent and hopefully helpful comment. When swapping one part, whether carb, solenoid, flywheel, ignition / power coil, etc., you are now operating with the parameters found for ALL parts during the last calibration/reset run of the saw. When you perform a reset now, I would expect all of those parameters to change. For instance, when you swap a solenoid, one may have stored a value of 20 milliamps for 70% open, while another may have 80% open for the same driving current. This is just an example. I don't know if Stihl is literally applying a variable current directly, or maybe a PWM (pulse width modulated) signal, common in RC planes and cars and in electronics. It saves power and gives fine control. But anyway, my point is that when swapping parts, I feel that a double swap has taken place for each part. It's now running with the old discovered parameters AND, it is not running with its best parameters as a whole. Every part controlled by the micro that is not a simple on and off, would have a value stored in non-volatile memory versus one RPM value (as an example). Memory would have a table of these driving parameters. Every part that is replaced would need its portion of that table reprogrammed. If a reset / cal were performed after EVERY part swap, this would be a different matter. A number of parts might have their parameters updated because the reset is testing the entire set of parts as a whole. It may run differently, maybe good or maybe bad, but it is now running as a team. Just like videos, I have a hard time stopping or being quick enough and I apologize and will stop for now.
I was wondering why you changed the solenoid on the carburetor? I have a ms 201tc sitting here, that I can't do a reset on bc it wont run in idle. Cranks up, runs fine, but no idle.
Does the chain spin at idle? I know you said it didn't idle, but before it dies. You may have a broken clutch spring. Other than that check the simple stuff first. Fuel filter, spark plug, screen in the carb. Past that I'd do a pressure and vacuum test if you can.
Hi, I've watched both this and demo of diag software with interest. I have a FS360 clearing saw with old mtronic. Found debris in carb so changed tank filter and black solenoid to a green one, it runs really rich before loosing spark.. If I'm lucky and get it to run >6s, it leans out (smoke free) and runs til the tanks dry. I thought the loss of spark prevented a reset was down to module so reluctantly changed it, made no difference.. The solenoid when powered shuts fuel off so its normally open, when the choke/start is engaged the solenoid is shunted with a diode preventing it from operating, therefore it can't close. I think maybe the flywheel magnets are weak or I have wrong gap (I used thickness of 2 piece of paper)... Magnets are yellow, not blue. I will use an oscilloscope to measure the diagnostics port for voltages and operation tomorrow but changing out the module (ignition) fuel solenoid and tank filter made no difference. I could change wires but they all check out fine..
You're gonna hate me for this. If you have trash in the carb screen you probably have a nick in the fuel line. Easier to suck air than fuel. I may be wrong but I'd check that first.
I have a ms261cm i put the newer white solenoid in it and i added a few slits in the muffler to give it a little extra power, it’s been running fine but recently the idle runs high coming off a rev, its also giving me a hard time starting warm, it smells like it’s flooded. Do you know if the solenoid could be my issue?
Hey richard I have a 201 that seems to idle high, did the reset on it and I could tell the saw adjusted itself throughout the reset but when finished and I start it back up back to high idle. And when I say high idle its spinning the chain pretty fast. Sounds like if the fuel solenoid were to fail it would die instead of high idle Any help is appreciated
Just a guess, there are three springs on the clutch. One may be broken and the clutch is dragging and the MTronic is trying to keep it running. If so, you shouldn't need to replace the entire clutch, just replace all three clutch springs. I recommend using the clutch springs for an MS200T as they are a little more robust. Lemme know if that's the issue.
Would a bad solenoid give no spark? I have a ms201tc the one with a 4700 coil and black carb solenoid is there any way to diagnose the problem or just have to replace the parts and hope it fixes the problem?
How did you check for spark and did you check with a new plug? The solenoid won't interfere with the spark issue. Inspect the wiring underneath the forward section of the top handle. The wiring has a silicone insulation that will stretch. If the saw got pinched and you pulled hard enough to get it unstuck, there may be a broken wire inside the insulation. If the carb and coil don't communicate it will only pop off but not run.
@@richardflagg3084 I tried a brand new plug just now, still no spark, put it inside the saw just to make sure I wasn’t blind, no pops, can you diagnose the wires first with a multimeter and test continuity? How about the coils? I read you used to Be able to take the kill switch wires off the coil and make sure it was the coil causing issues can you still do that on the mtronic systems?
@@JohnParisi83 It may be time for a coil. Do you have a black or white solenoid? If you have a black solenoid it needs to be replaced with the coil. A coil and solenoid replacement is pretty pricy ($200ish). How would you rate the cosmetic condition of your saw 1-10? I hate to say this, but if your honest answer is 5-6ish it may be time for a new saw. Hear me out, if you're saw has a ton of mileage on it, it's like an old truck you keep throwing money at with no end in sight. Your saw is probably pushing 8-9 years old at this point and replacing a couple of parts could be just the beginning as everything else on the saw is well worn. $900 gets you a new bar, chain, piston, cylinder, coil, carb, filters, side covers and a warranty.
hello, i have one of these saws in our shop and found out that it did not have any spark. we replaced the coil and still does not have any spark even with everything disconnected from the coil itself. does the carb solenoid have to be connected to run the saw/ test for spark? and would a bad solenoid cause a no spark situation? i did check for voltage coming off the coil for the two wires going to the carb as well and didn't get anything, would that be a cause of concern? I would love to hear back from you.
The coil should spark with everything disconnected. Gap should be .008-.010" Tighter than the usual business card. Did the old coil make contact with the flywheel? (scuffing on the magnet surface) check the strength of the magnets. It's a reach but possible. Feel free reach out to me at 864 nine nine one. 133 zero. I'd be happy to help
A really good place to look as well is the wiring running threw handle starting from muffle side, they are always failing at that part and causing no spark or random shutoffs, I hade 15 in today all having different issues 7 of them having the no spark issue/ shut off randomly, worth checking. Hope that helps.
Have Gen 1 TC. Replaced with a green solenoid. Didn't solve it. Tank vent clean did. Saw runs erraticc pull gas cap. If you hear noise/ vacuum vent is plugged.
Common problem in the auto repair business. A little better now with training but you still have techs throwing expensive parts at a problem instead of diagnosing it properly.
Richard , have Stihl MS 201 TC M Tronic no spark, need your advise, since I have no access to Stihl diagnostics how can you determine whether its the ignition module or the wire harness?
First make sure the plug wire is not worn or chaffed anywhere. Then make sure the boot is still firmly attached to the plug wire. Easy stuff first, Regardless if a saw is MTronic, Auto tune, or has a traditional carburetor you can check for spark by pulling the spark plug and installing it back in the boot. Then ground the plug to the cylinder and pull the cord. Then try disconnecting the leads to the coil and try the same process. That eliminates the ground wires from the coil. If you got spark after disconnecting the wires from the coil, you have a wiring issue.
@@richardflagg3084 i did all of that, typical normal diagnostic procedures performed, funny thing is I had zero spark outside of the installed plug in the boot, did a search online and ended up using my Zat 4 spark tester and now it has strong evidence of spark, reinstalled the plug and did a reboot / reset and the saw runs fine, originally the complaint was the owner installed bar oil in the fuel tank by accident, cleaned that out and it runs fine now… Initially it didn’t show spark even with a new plug and disconnecting the harness plug at the coil. I used a drill motor with a 13 mm socket to spin it over . Problem solved for now , it has the 4703 coil on it …
Hey richard! I have a 201tc m tronics saw with the grey solenoid im working on came in as a no start. it got a new handle because it had a broke harness still no spark, swapped a different coil out of a running saw (same part number/grey solenoid) ran great. Ordered a new coil (the part numbers are different) . Now the saw starts great, but wont do a reset, do i need a green solenoid for the new coil new coil #1145 400 4711 Old coil #1145 400 4703
When I search on Sthil's parts look up it shows that part number was discontinued in 2017. Most likely making it version 1 MTronic and why it won't reset. You'll need the current version 3 coil/module.
Richard thank you, I've had a 201tc sitting on my shelf for a year and I just couldn't figure it out. I think this is it...
Excellent video.. These are the kind of videos that can really save someone a hassle on a Sunday when they’re trying to get a worksaw running for Monday
Thanks!!
That's why I will never get rid of my Homelite ez 250 because it never fails
Thanks for sharing your experience
This vid has helped me greatly 🤙🏻😎
Great video Richard! We almost stopped carrying MS 201 TCs in our shop because they have been such a PITA. We have one in now that our mechanic replaced the coil, replaced the carburetor, and it still won't run right. He checked the compression and case pressure, both fine. I'm going to have him see which solenoid is on the carburetor and go from there. Thanks for putting this video out there!
The wiring harness needs a closer look under the front of the top handle. The silicone insulation on the wires will stretch while the actual wire may be compromised. I see this several times a year. Saw gets pinched and the climber in his attempt to free the saw can break/stretch the wires.
Mtronic needs a strong signal from the coil to the carb. Otherwise it will shut off or act wonkey. Just something else to pay attention to. As far as the pressure/ vac test make sure he's rotating and flexing the crank while it's under pressure/vac. I've had some that would hold pressure /vac while I was on a lunch break but fail as soon as I moved the crank.
@@richardflagg3084 Thanks Richard, much appreciated. I'll have our mechanic look at the wiring harness. He's about ready to throw it in the dumpster out back. Ahh the joys of mechanicing, sometime you hit a bump in the road. Fortunately, when you get through those bumps, it makes it that much more interesting. I kind-of miss turning wrenches, got a few saws to rebuild when I get free off the counter. I appreciate your knowledge, I think the manufacturers should be paying guys like you for your videos. They can't ever seem to be able to keep up with hands on training.
@@selfsufficientmercantile I truly feel for him. Been there too many times. Hope it helps. Let me know how it works out.
@@richardflagg3084 Thanks for your help Richard, unfortunately we were not able to get the 201 working. My mechanic is 73 and doesn't want to learn any of the new stuff, but he shows up for work every day and can fix most other stuff. I hooked the saw up to the Stihl MDG-1 and went through the process. I seemed to test fine and reset the carb. We replaced the carb, the ignition module, and the wiring harness. I took it out and cut fine on the first run. Then I restarted it and it started stopping right away, in the cut. My guy said he tested the case for air leaks and it tested fine. Upon further inspection I noticed one of the cooling fines broken and another one bent. I think it might have a minute leak somewhere that we're not finding. We gave the saw back to the customer, and he was OK with it. Anyways, we removed any 201 T-CM's off our booking order. We've had a difficult time finding any new mechanics to learn this stuff, but I'm grateful our "Old Guy" is hanging in there for most of the other stuff.
On another note, I think the EPA needs a reality check and lets us keep the tunable carburetors. We just had a massive storm here in California, 3 inches over night with wind. Do they think it's safe going out in the rain with a battery powered saw to take care of downed trees? Not to mention ground water being destroyed by cobalt mining activities for lithium batteries. Green energy isn't that green. The powers that be need to see the big picture of "green energy". Anyways, that's my two cents worth.
Good video dude 👍 thanks
Phenomenal video and technician Richard! I have a 201TC that I just finished changing the wiring harness. Was frayed. And started right up , idles great but now as soon as you full trigger rev it dies. You can blip the throttle and it will slowly climb. Really stumped and the only thing I can think of is the ignition coil or this fuel solenoid . It was all rusty when I took the cover off,
Does it have the black solenoid on the carb? How's the fuel filter?
Thanks man, great info. I've got a TC here that's doing that. I have a spare coil, but unfortunately both are the 4700, one is a D the other is H. I've already ordered the new solenoid, but now I'm expecting thst it will also need a 4703 coil 😳.
Saws were so much better without computers 😉
I misspoke in the video. V3.0 is a 4702. Sorry for the confusion. Technology is going to continue to be a part of life and most of the time, in my experience, it's been reliable. This was a tough one. When the manufacturer says this solenoid is a universal upgrade, and it's not, it makes you question your sanity. Lol!!
@@richardflagg3084 thanks, I appreciate thst you keep up on the comments too, very helpful! 😎👍
@@jimssawsnstuff8903 👍
i has the same problem with a ms661 which needed new cylinder and piston kit on , this saw wouldn't start , so replaced the solenoid , started , but would not go into reset mode , so had to switch out ignition module , that solved it ,
I have a StihlMS201TC made 06.2015 the serial number on the front of the saw casing is 180241154. It has got white fuel solinoids on the carburettor. It has a good spark and the tank vent is clear the fuel lines seem good tank filter is good l have replaced the wiring harness and fitted a replacement carburettor on it. It was bought as a non starter and it will fire up for about 2 seconds at most on choke or run then cut out and this will recur for 4 or so times then it is dead. The next step is to replace the ignition but l have no idea if that will solve the problem. I don’t have any access to diagnostic equipment and if the saw won’t run possibly this would be of no help. If you have any advice l would appreciate it. Thanks again for your detailed uploaded content it has helped me a great deal so far. Regards Jason.
Hey Richard, awesome video, these Ms201tc definitely need the spotlight, because they just have so many issues and I believe you’re the only YT uploading valuable info on these saws,
and I just wanted to know if checking crankshaft play is part of your routine when these top handles come in for repair? Because i get these in daily and 1 out of 3 will have a bit of crank play sometimes just barley noticeable. And sometimes just enough to make you start to question it. Would you consider new seals and bearings for these even thou they’re not a performance issue?
Thanks for the suggestion! I'll do a video and cover that. It's really not so cut and dry..
That should be an interesting video, Because I have some that you can barley feel the play just enough to know it’s there. And I find it odd that Stihl service manuals don’t mention crank play other the pressure vacuum testing for the seals because obviously when the seals are done so are the bearing.
There's a fine line. A tiny bit of play is "normal" on a well used saw. When new, there is NO play in the crank. It's only when they are semi-sloppy, and realistically it's not going to get any better. Then it's time to put the saw through a torture test to MAKE it fail. Otherwise it will come back with the same issue. "runs ok but..... and you charged me $$$$$$." It's a give and take with this style of bearing. Ball bearings are cut and dry. If there is ANY play, it's time for a rebuild. Just my .02
Happy to find this video. I have an early MS261CM that is having hot restart issues. I note in the older Stihl tech reference guide it states the new white solenoid is NOT suitable for MS201TC-M and MS261C-M plus a few others. I did ask about that when I purchased my white solenoid and the dealer did not see that in his tech reference. Maybe it is not in the later version? The saw runs fine but it has hard restart after 15 mins. Perfect hot or cold. My coil does have 4700 so I guess same as this video. Have you tried an M3.0 coil conversion on an older 261? I already have a white solenoid so only other thing I know of is the jet is slightly larger in the newer carb?? Maybe the loom as well since there are 2 part numbers.
Yup the 4700 coil is early production. You can either find a NOS black solenoid or upgrade the coil. Hot restart is a classic symptom of a failing solenoid so you're on the right track. I've only experienced that issue on the early 201TCM's not playing well with the white solenoid.
@@richardflagg3084 I just had the version with the black solenoid fail and the technician from whom I buy parts sold me the green one saying that the white was not back compatible. Regardless, saw runs great now and does it's job.
@@johnm9005 Awesome! That's great to hear.
I have a 201 that just came in with a bad air leak. I fixed the problem and pressure vac tested it. No matter what it will not run with the choke on for the reset so pretty much instantly dies. I am about ready to throw the thing in the trash. Lol
If I replace my old black solenoid for the new green one do I need to also upgrade my coil? I have a ms362c-m
Thanks for the video. Yes, there is something going on with my ms362 also. Coil 4705A failed, I replaced it with 4705B, and a white solenoid, it now works. my 4705A coil is stamped RD171 near the bottom, I don't know what it means, R&D maybe ? the new one is stamped RM181 I don't know what that means either.
More than likely a lot/batch code for the RD171. What's up with the 362?
@@richardflagg3084 It started cold, but would not restart when hot. then one day it died. I got out the Ohm meter, everything looked fine, I tested the old coil, it also looked fine, but couldn't find the upper and lower Ω limits written any where. I replaced the coil, New OEM, still no spark. I took it to a Stihl mechanic, When I picked it up 3 months later (I didn't care about that) it had yet another coil, an a white solenoid with and orange filter. Would a bad solenoid prohibit the coil from giving spark ? He charged 75 dollars, and said I had gaped it wrong ( I didn't argue, (I knew I gaped it correctly, I checked it multiple times) he put on new parts and didn't charge for them). Thanks for replying, and the video.
original coil was 4705A, second coil was 4706, third coil was 4705B which is the one that works
@@thomasgronek6469A failing black solenoid will start fine, run ok (ish), and will be a bear to restart or idle well when at full operating temp. It's possible the coil was bad, but I feel the solenoid was the culprit. Proper coil to flywheel gap for MTronic saws should be about .008". A little tighter than a cheap business card.
@@richardflagg3084 Yes, I had it set at .008, then 010, then back to 008, but still no spark. Well, it runs now, but I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop. I'm gathering parts to make it non- M-Tronic the next time it decides to break down.
Although I’m sure this video is helpful for those that are experienced with small engine repairs but I’m definitely a novice at this and would have liked a little better camera angle while dis and reassembling the saw. My ms201 tc was left in the bucket of the truck for a couple of days and it rained so the saw was completely submerged in water and now it tried to turn over once but since then it’s getting zero spark. So solenoid? Idk.
Hey Rich! Just found this video. I have a 201Tc on my bench guy said it quit mid cut. He wants it ported after I fix it. Anyways pressure vac tested everything. Piston and cylinder is good. Carb screen is clean. Has good spark. I’ve checked everything mechanically. The serial is 186748076. Not sure if it’s early or not but it has a black solenoid. The plug is soaked like it’s flooding itself. If you hold the throttle wide open it will pop like it wants to start.
Quite possible it's the solenoid. Have a look at the wiring under the top handle and see if the wires have any damage. If they have been stretched the insulation may be intact but the strands of wire may be broken. If it will only pop off but not run, it's not getting a signal from the carb to the coil. Just a possibility, I've only seen it happen a couple of times.
@@richardflagg3084 Thanks buddy. That’s a good possibility. The handlebar spring was all stretched out like it had been tugged on hard. You the man.
@@mfsaws8240 The wiring harness is about $30 IIRC. Tales about 20 minutes to install. Be gentle tucking in the harness. That wire is pretty dainty.
@@richardflagg3084 I appreciate the advice! You the man.
@@richardflagg3084 Oh boy I just checked it has the 4700 coil lol
I have the 201tc-m. It's did the same thing until it wouldn't hit at all. Been some time, I miss it. The muffler is messy with oil as well. I wonder if this is what's happening with mine. Any thoughts about that?
My Ram for 90 seconds when it was cold it would not run for s*** when it was hot when trying to relearn I will try the 92 seconds when it cools off and try again but it would not run but for 3 seconds wide open and then died after the 60 seconds I was told to do and I have the same coil as you do
Question. What serial numbers go to which different version coils?
Outstanding information Richard!!! I think this might be the culprit for my 2018 201tc it takes a real pro to pin-point these things out now would this be the same for the Green solenoids as well 🤔 and can sthil still order the black solenoids once again great work 👍
It was a painful figuring that one out. I've only seen the green solenoids on the internet. They were a short lived thing. As far as I know the only solenoid available to purchase at the parts counter is the grey/white one. I have seen the black ones on occasion sold on Ebay as new old stock.
@@richardflagg3084well that's the reason you're the MAN ! I've been wondering why my 201tc won't reset an the things a very low hour saw ! I was using the ultra at 50:1 but because of your findings I've been on the amsoil saber @50:1 so far so good thanks again rich for all you do for us keep on keeping on and on the subject of the green solenoid I can actually get those at my local dealer as I've seen him pull out about 5 boxes and told me the same thing that they were universal but in all honesty I'll take your word anyday thanks for taking the time to respond it shows much of your character 😀
@@elbenny805 I'll have to ask my Stihl rep about the green ones. If I can get some good info I'll pass it along.
@@richardflagg3084 thanks a bunch 🙏 rich ! You're the MAN!! You are a plethora of information You're works not to shabby either 😉 👌 😜 👍
Excellent videos, Do you think the newer solenoid need the newer reset procedure instead of the 90 sec at idle?
I'll cover that tomorrow. I've got a problem child video that'll cover that.
I have a new solenoid coming for my early 201. Not sure on whet ignition coil it has will check when home. Is getting a new ignition coil with new solenoid a solution?
Look forward to the video recon you have saved me masses of head scratching!
Jimbo
I'm wondering. Did you take a class with Stihl on the M-Tronic units or did you figure it out?
I am a repairman at a hardware store that sells Shihl. I have a 262 in the shop that I have had for weeks trying to figure out its problem. (sounds exactly like this 201 in the video.) I have ordered a new ignition module. Replaced wiring harness and carb module, but it just is not right some how. hoping the ignition upgrade fixes it. So I was wondering if you used the computer system from Stihl at all?
Thanks Danny. I do own an MDG1 and rarely use it, but because I don't work at a Stihl dealership, I haven't had any formal factory training. Remember It's still 95% mechanical and 5% Electronic. Regardless if it's MTronic or standard carburetor I still go about it the same way/order of checking things.
Let me know how things work out with the new coil does.
@@richardflagg3084 Well, when the dust cleared, you were right!
I checked the carb today. I found the fuel pump diaphragm was not seating correctly and the metal filter screen inside the carb was TRASHED, FULL OF JUNK! Put in a rebuild kit and the saw screams. It's great. I was trying to fix M-Tronics and it wasn't the trouble. Thank you for suggestion that I just go back to basics.
@@dannybowman7792 I didn't do anything. YOU did it! One last thing, pull the fuel filter and inspect/pressure test the fuel line. Typically if the carb screen full, there is a tear in the fuel line. Way to go my friend!! Glad she's back up and running!!!!!!
My whiny Stihl comments are gone, replaced with this more intelligent and hopefully helpful comment. When swapping one part, whether carb, solenoid, flywheel, ignition / power coil, etc., you are now operating with the parameters found for ALL parts during the last calibration/reset run of the saw. When you perform a reset now, I would expect all of those parameters to change. For instance, when you swap a solenoid, one may have stored a value of 20 milliamps for 70% open, while another may have 80% open for the same driving current. This is just an example. I don't know if Stihl is literally applying a variable current directly, or maybe a PWM (pulse width modulated) signal, common in RC planes and cars and in electronics. It saves power and gives fine control.
But anyway, my point is that when swapping parts, I feel that a double swap has taken place for each part. It's now running with the old discovered parameters AND, it is not running with its best parameters as a whole. Every part controlled by the micro that is not a simple on and off, would have a value stored in non-volatile memory versus one RPM value (as an example). Memory would have a table of these driving parameters. Every part that is replaced would need its portion of that table reprogrammed.
If a reset / cal were performed after EVERY part swap, this would be a different matter. A number of parts might have their parameters updated because the reset is testing the entire set of parts as a whole. It may run differently, maybe good or maybe bad, but it is now running as a team.
Just like videos, I have a hard time stopping or being quick enough and I apologize and will stop for now.
They now have Green solenoids that are supposed to replace the black since the blacks aren't made anymore.
The orifices on the tank vent are insane small. Should hear nothing when taking gas cap off.
I was wondering why you changed the solenoid on the carburetor? I have a ms 201tc sitting here, that I can't do a reset on bc it wont run in idle. Cranks up, runs fine, but no idle.
Does the chain spin at idle? I know you said it didn't idle, but before it dies. You may have a broken clutch spring. Other than that check the simple stuff first. Fuel filter, spark plug, screen in the carb. Past that I'd do a pressure and vacuum test if you can.
Hi, I've watched both this and demo of diag software with interest. I have a FS360 clearing saw with old mtronic. Found debris in carb so changed tank filter and black solenoid to a green one, it runs really rich before loosing spark.. If I'm lucky and get it to run >6s, it leans out (smoke free) and runs til the tanks dry. I thought the loss of spark prevented a reset was down to module so reluctantly changed it, made no difference.. The solenoid when powered shuts fuel off so its normally open, when the choke/start is engaged the solenoid is shunted with a diode preventing it from operating, therefore it can't close. I think maybe the flywheel magnets are weak or I have wrong gap (I used thickness of 2 piece of paper)... Magnets are yellow, not blue. I will use an oscilloscope to measure the diagnostics port for voltages and operation tomorrow but changing out the module (ignition) fuel solenoid and tank filter made no difference. I could change wires but they all check out fine..
You're gonna hate me for this. If you have trash in the carb screen you probably have a nick in the fuel line. Easier to suck air than fuel. I may be wrong but I'd check that first.
@@richardflagg3084 I thought, since I was changing filter and carb was off I'd check the pipe, it's fine, no leaks..
I have a ms261cm i put the newer white solenoid in it and i added a few slits in the muffler to give it a little extra power, it’s been running fine but recently the idle runs high coming off a rev, its also giving me a hard time starting warm, it smells like it’s flooded. Do you know if the solenoid could be my issue?
The newer solenoids don't fail often but it does happen. Hard to say with out digging a little deeper.
Hey richard I have a 201 that seems to idle high, did the reset on it and I could tell the saw adjusted itself throughout the reset but when finished and I start it back up back to high idle. And when I say high idle its spinning the chain pretty fast.
Sounds like if the fuel solenoid were to fail it would die instead of high idle
Any help is appreciated
Just a guess, there are three springs on the clutch. One may be broken and the clutch is dragging and the MTronic is trying to keep it running. If so, you shouldn't need to replace the entire clutch, just replace all three clutch springs. I recommend using the clutch springs for an MS200T as they are a little more robust. Lemme know if that's the issue.
Would a bad solenoid give no spark? I have a ms201tc the one with a 4700 coil and black carb solenoid is there any way to diagnose the problem or just have to replace the parts and hope it fixes the problem?
How did you check for spark and did you check with a new plug? The solenoid won't interfere with the spark issue. Inspect the wiring underneath the forward section of the top handle. The wiring has a silicone insulation that will stretch. If the saw got pinched and you pulled hard enough to get it unstuck, there may be a broken wire inside the insulation. If the carb and coil don't communicate it will only pop off but not run.
@@richardflagg3084 I tried a brand new plug just now, still no spark, put it inside the saw just to make sure I wasn’t blind, no pops, can you diagnose the wires first with a multimeter and test continuity? How about the coils? I read you used to
Be able to take the kill switch wires off the coil and make sure it was the coil causing issues can you still do that on the mtronic systems?
@@JohnParisi83 It may be time for a coil. Do you have a black or white solenoid? If you have a black solenoid it needs to be replaced with the coil. A coil and solenoid replacement is pretty pricy ($200ish). How would you rate the cosmetic condition of your saw 1-10? I hate to say this, but if your honest answer is 5-6ish it may be time for a new saw.
Hear me out, if you're saw has a ton of mileage on it, it's like an old truck you keep throwing money at with no end in sight. Your saw is probably pushing 8-9 years old at this point and replacing a couple of parts could be just the beginning as everything else on the saw is well worn. $900 gets you a new bar, chain, piston, cylinder, coil, carb, filters, side covers and a warranty.
White and green solenoids work just fine . . Vent system however needs to be re engineered. Epa BS.
hello, i have one of these saws in our shop and found out that it did not have any spark. we replaced the coil and still does not have any spark even with everything disconnected from the coil itself. does the carb solenoid have to be connected to run the saw/ test for spark? and would a bad solenoid cause a no spark situation? i did check for voltage coming off the coil for the two wires going to the carb as well and didn't get anything, would that be a cause of concern? I would love to hear back from you.
The coil should spark with everything disconnected. Gap should be .008-.010" Tighter than the usual business card. Did the old coil make contact with the flywheel? (scuffing on the magnet surface) check the strength of the magnets. It's a reach but possible. Feel free reach out to me at 864 nine nine one. 133 zero. I'd be happy to help
A really good place to look as well is the wiring running threw handle starting from muffle side, they are always failing at that part and causing no spark or random shutoffs, I hade 15 in today all having different issues 7 of them having the no spark issue/ shut off randomly, worth checking. Hope that helps.
Also make sure coil lead is twisted on firmly
@@Wakeupdud3 Good point. If the wiring harness has a stretched/broken wire it will have issues from no start to pop off and die
Have Gen 1 TC. Replaced with a green solenoid. Didn't solve it. Tank vent clean did. Saw runs erraticc pull gas cap. If you hear noise/ vacuum vent is plugged.
Open up the vent you'll see. Design flaw everyone buys solenoids to try and solve a tank vent issue. Been there...
Common problem in the auto repair business. A little better now with training but you still have techs throwing expensive parts at a problem instead of diagnosing it properly.
Richard , have Stihl MS 201 TC M Tronic no spark, need your advise, since I have no access to Stihl diagnostics how can you determine whether its the ignition module or the wire harness?
First make sure the plug wire is not worn or chaffed anywhere. Then make sure the boot is still firmly attached to the plug wire. Easy stuff first,
Regardless if a saw is MTronic, Auto tune, or has a traditional carburetor you can check for spark by pulling the spark plug and installing it back in the boot. Then ground the plug to the cylinder and pull the cord. Then try disconnecting the leads to the coil and try the same process.
That eliminates the ground wires from the coil. If you got spark after disconnecting the wires from the coil, you have a wiring issue.
@@richardflagg3084 i did all of that, typical normal diagnostic procedures performed, funny thing is I had zero spark outside of the installed plug in the boot, did a search online and ended up using my Zat 4 spark tester and now it has strong evidence of spark, reinstalled the plug and did a reboot / reset and the saw runs fine, originally the complaint was the owner installed bar oil in the fuel tank by accident, cleaned that out and it runs fine now… Initially it didn’t show spark even with a new plug and disconnecting the harness plug at the coil. I used a drill motor with a 13 mm socket to spin it over . Problem solved for now , it has the 4703 coil on it …
Hey richard! I have a 201tc m tronics saw with the grey solenoid im working on came in as a no start. it got a new handle because it had a broke harness still no spark, swapped a different coil out of a running saw (same part number/grey solenoid) ran great. Ordered a new coil (the part numbers are different) . Now the saw starts great, but wont do a reset, do i need a green solenoid for the new coil
new coil #1145 400 4711
Old coil #1145 400 4703
When I search on Sthil's parts look up it shows that part number was discontinued in 2017. Most likely making it version 1 MTronic and why it won't reset. You'll need the current version 3 coil/module.
@Richard Flagg thank you sir!