I don't want to be a safety patrol nut, but you might want to wear glasses and earplugs when doing the primers. I can speak from 45 years of experience I have personally had a primer go off during this process and the first time was without earplugs and man my ears were ringing for quite some time. And please remove your powder while you're doing the priming operation. Minimize the hazard. Same thing when you are loading the powder into the case, have a small container for loading, but put the original container in a separate area. I'm going to be loading some for the first time next week and I'm going to try something I have yet for someone to address - I'm going to lightly spray them with dry film lubricant after they're loaded and see if the DFL will essentially replace the lost lacquer coating. Should be interesting. I enjoyed your video, it was instructional and very informative, and wish you continued safe loading. 👍
Thanks for the great video. The internet had scared me away from attempting to reload 5.7x28 but this video has set my mind at ease. Paying $1 a round locally also helped... Lol
No problem thank you for taking the time to watch, it is a little tricky to load for and it takes a lot of trimming but it certainly can be done with some tinkering and practice! Thanks for watching and for the kind words! --Jeremiah
That is exactly what is happening the firing pin is not striking the primer because it is out of battery the question is if it is out of battery because of the coating or not. I have tested this further and to be honest the results are confusing it seems that coating does not matter with most firearms. I would love to get my hands on a P90 and put that to the test, as I hear it is more sensitive to the coating. Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment! --Jeremiah
My experience with the Ruger is that if the bolt does not completely close, the trigger will not complete the cocking of the hammer and the hammer will not fall, as a result there will be no contact with the hammer and the firing pin,and the primer will not have any firing pin mark. This is apparently a safety feature of the Ruger to prevent the gun firing out of battery. I readjusted my sizing die to insert the cases deeper, so that the bottle neck portion of the case was more completely formed, and so that the slide and barrel would be in full contract, and have had no problems since
That is very very true and we have experienced that as well, I think it is actually an out of battery safety as well. This is something that I mentioned in our video on the Ruger 57 handgun. I think this subject is something I would like to revisit with a PS 90 as a lot of folks say it will not feed without the coating on the cases. I adjust my sizing die in a very similar manner to what you are describing though. Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment! --Jeremiah
Very well done episode of HandloaderTV. The issue of laquered cases is not something I've needed to consider with my experiences and I hope you revisit the subject in the future.
Thank you very much we appreciate the feedback! We are definitely planning on revisiting this in the near future with both FN and the Ruger handguns in 5.7x28.
Been reloading 5.7 for almost 4 years. Shoot them either through my old AR57 rifle or my newer CMMG Banshee 57. My cleaning process is to tumble in corncob for 1 hour, deprime and size with hornady spray case lube, clean primer pocket, then tumble again for 1 hour. No problems with the loss of the case lacquer. Pistols may just be more sensitive to this without a big heavy bolt slamming these into the chamber.
Very interesting thank you for sharing that info, It seems like there are a lot of methods out there that seem to work well. In our tumble test for 2 1/2 hours we had no feeding issues or failures, so it appears that light tumbling won't damage the coating on the cases. Thanks for sharing your experiences and thank you for watching!
I've had problems with occasional neck separation. Weirdly only in my fn 5.7 pistol. I clean pretty much the same as you except for using a 50-50 crushed walnut corn cob mix. Thats just the mix I've always used for everything, maybe I should try just corn cob. Pretty sure its not a sizing issue but it happens so seldom and after it happens its too late to find out.* edit, never happens in my ps90. The only 2 5.7's I own. I should add that I've forgotten brass in the tumbler for a few hours at least and didn't seem any worse.
@@KurtOnoIR I have also had some neck separation problems. However I think that is a brass issue as opposed to an over-cleaning issue. I have discovered the hard way that 5.7 brass can only be reloaded 2 to 3 times before I start getting unpredictable case failures. Be very careful with these delicate cartridges when you reload them. Reloading 5.7 is not for the faint of heart. Keep very careful note of how often each set of brass is reloaded.
@@KurtOnoIR I have also had some neck separation problems. However I think that is a brass issue as opposed to an over-cleaning issue. I have discovered the hard way that 5.7 brass can only be reloaded 2 to 3 times before I start getting unpredictable case failures. Be very careful with these delicate cartridges when you reload them. Reloading 5.7 is not for the faint of heart. Keep very careful note of how often each set of brass is reloaded.
I have heard several theories about the lacquer coating on 5.7x28 cartridges. These all stem from the shape of the case. There is actually a 0.001 inch taper on the case but, this amounts to a straight walled case. They needed a straight wall case to facilitate the straight line magazines used in P90's and PS90's. Any significant taper would have mandated a banana magazine like in the AK47. Rumor has it that the lacquer lubricant aids in feeding 50 cartridges up the straight lined magazine. That's a lot of friction to overcome. More believably, the rumor is that the lubricant is necessary to get the spent cases to extract from the chamber. Most rifle-style cases employ a substantial taper to help them break loose from the chamber. The 5.7x28, being straight walled, needs a lubricant to help out. I have found it essential to maintain the lacquer lubricant intact. I discard scratched cases. I clean the cases using an ultrasonic cleaner from Hornady... no tumbling... ever.
This is the best I have seen and most complete for the 5.7x28mm cartridge!! Thanks man for the info! I haven’t got the pistol but I have a pair of P90’s these are super weapons and an amazing varmint round!!
Thank you so much for watching we do appreciate it! I would love to have a little Howa Mini action chambered in 5.7x28 with a shorter barrel perhaps 16" for the sole purpose of a varmint truck gun! I think it is an outstanding varmint cartridge! Glad you enjoyed the production, We strive to offer the most compressive and trustworthy data on any given subject. Always nice to hear we are meeting that goal. lots more to come in the future on other subjects so don't forget to subscribe if you haven't already. Thanks for watching and for the kind words.
Theres is barely any reloading videos for 5.7. Thanks for making this. Also very weird that neither FN or Federal disclose what is the magic coating on the cases thats causing jams.
You are very welcome it is very doable, just a bit tedious mostly because of how often you have to trim but still worthwhile. I would like to revisit this at some point as well and detail what else I have learned since this filming. The coating on the case is very interesting though. Thanks for watching and good loading to you! --Jeremiah
"barely any videos" - now THERE's an understatement!! I've been uploading my results for about a year in case it is of any benefit for others. The coating has to do with how timing of the pressure-curve and brass expanding (how it moves) in the chamber takes place.
Great video! Ive been afraid to reload 5.7x28 due to the coating on the cases. Plus load data is pretty much non-existent in many places. Seeing this video made me realize that I definitely can reload the round.
we are very glad to hear that! We are happy we can help you start reloading this awesome cartridge. If you have any questions or concerns don't hesitate to reach out to us. Thank you for watching!
I also hand load my own subsonic loads with standard 55 grain boat tail bullets and 3.3gr of true blue. Works well for me. But I carefully worked this up for my Banshee.
Subsonic 5.7x28 sounds like a lot of fun! If only the cartridge was not so finicky we would have been happy to test out more loads but we thought it may be wise to stick with published pressure tested data for out video.
@@HandloaderTV I agree completely. My subsonic load experiments were careful and methodical with testing of various powders and weights with a specific firearms. Thankfully, with sub loads the pressures seem much less and the brass lasts a little longer. When combined with my dedicated Gemtech 57 suppressor on either my AR57 pistol variant or my Banshee 57, I have really made something interesting and uncommon that garners comments at the range.
@@Lawraven Indeed that is the only way to work up 5.7 loads. That sounds awesome! I can imagine that little darling is a joy to shoot! I may have to look into the Banshee 57 for myself! I have a played with a lot of subsonic stuff and I find it most interesting and a whole lot of fun to just tinker with.
Something you may wish to try is ceramic media. I use micro bright 2mm ceramic polishing media in my wet tumbler fof about an hour or two. Brass comes out great. May work well for the lacquer coating.
Great suggestion thank you for taking the time to watch and comment, we hope to revisit this subject in the future with more firearms for testing purposed. --Jeremiah
Great Video! I would like to see some tests with heavier bullets, maybe in the 50 to 55 grain. The brass cleaning tests were great! I've been using the Simple Green and water, but I now will try dry tumbling.
Thank you very much we are glad you enjoyed it! We would cover the heavier bullets if there was any published reputable pressure tested data. At this time the cost of pressure testing this cartridge with heavier bullets and the lack of components we just can not justify the pressure testing ourselves. Hopefully one day though! The tests we performed surprised us greatly but we are happy with the results and have been dry tumbling ever since without any issues. Thanks for watching!
Aye I really appreciate your video . I have no intent in reloading but I just purchased a 57 and kinda just wanna learn as much as I can about the pistol and Ammo . But regardless good job kid 😉👍🏽🇺🇸
No problem, our goal here is to provide as much accurate and unbiased information as possible in whatever we do and hopefully build up a helpful and loyal following of those who truly want to learn! Thank you for watching and your kind comment. We hope you enjoy your 5.7 and if you have any questions feel free to reach out to us at any time!
I’ve held off buying anything in this calibre because of the lacquer coating issues when reloading. It looks like you’re definitely on to something with your theories. I’ll be waiting to see what other information you come up with. Thanks for the vid. Very informative. 👍👍
It is a mess of confusing and contradicting claims on the internet we wanted to show you what actually happens. We are very excited to continue our 5.7x28 tests and come up with a solid conclusion as to how to clean the brass. Glad you enjoyed the video and thank you for watching!
Bought the S&W version of the 5.7×28mm. Want to handload some 50 grain Barnes VLC bullets. Can't find any load data for bullets over 45 grains. I think the rule of thumb is slower burning powders for heavier bullets when extrapolating data from published loads, if I recall. I want to try TCM, AA#9, Power Pistol, 4227, and CFE Pistol. Thinking if I start at the minimum for the 45 grain and work up, I can leave the range with a smile, an intact pistol, and five fingers! 😂
Those Barnes VLC bullets are a bit of an oddball and can be a little different in terms of pressure generation. There is not much loaddata out there for 5.7x28 if you are extremely knowledgeable I would recommend looking into Gordon's Reloading tool online. It is free to use and will help you extrapolate loads in a wide array of cartridges. I think we may have some load data with Accurate No. 9 on Loaddata.com if you wanted to check that out. The 5.7x28 is certainly a finicky cartridge and can be a challenge to work with but also very rewarding once you get it figured out. Thanks for watching! --Jeremiah
Hello, I was wondering what kind of dies did you use in the process? Which ones would you recommend? I ask since I ordered one Lee precision dies and there seems to be a lot of negative comments on them but I guess I won’t know for sure until I load them to see how it goes. Thank You for the video!! Super informative!!
We used Redding dies throughout all of our testing and they worked very well with no issues. One thing we did notice is that you must ensure the die is screwed down enough to make good contact with the shell holder. We have not used the Lee dies for this cartridge but it is worth a shot, If they don't work for you I would suggest trying Redding. Glad you enjoyed the video, thank you for watching!
Awesome video, thank you! Sounds like the lacquer thinner probably made the coating gummy/sticky I bet. If it completely removed it then probably no problems, but sounds like your observation said there was still some left?
Thank you for the kind words and taking the time to comment! I agree in full with you assessment, as 5.7x28 grows in popularity I would like to revisit this with a couple of different guns in particular the P90 from FN. It is my understanding that the P90 will not operate without the coating on the case but I have heard a lot of mixed reports on this. Both the Ruger 57 and FN Five-seveN will operate without the coating on the case though so long as it's completely removed or completely intact. I hope that helps you out, thank you so much for watching! --Jeremiah
Very well done video, unfortunately by using the one American made gun it failed to address the root cause for the lacquer coating. I reload this round and I use it in the FN pistol and the P90 and have found that these devices will fail to operate if the lacquer is damaged or not present at all. I currently use the simple green process for about 15 minutes and then rinse and repeat a second time after I have removed the primer first. I look forward to the future video you have mentioned in where are you planning to use the FN pistol.
I must admit at the time of this filming we did not have the FN Five-seveN and we are still looking into getting a P90. That is very interesting how the coating effects performance in the FN firearms and not the Ruger. We will have to do further testing so we can address further questions about this topic. We did do a video on the FN pistol I will paste the link below but we did keep the case coating in tact for all handloading in that video. Thanks for watching and thank you for sharing your experience. ua-cam.com/video/vOaqToNOEwk/v-deo.html FN Five-seveN video.
It would be better to test the cases in a case gage 1) after resizing, 2) after bullet seating... just to be sure that the procedures are working. I prefer the "slotted" (i.e. cutaway) style case gages from Sheridan Engineering. I have had a lot of trouble with the seating of the bullet causing the case to bulge. To deal with this I first use a precision expansion arbor to open the case neck to a diameter of 0.223 inches. This is one thousandth less than the bullet diameter. I find that minimal neck tension helps to control the case bulging during bullet seating. I also lubricate the inside of the case neck using a Q-tip with a fine mica dry lubricant from Lyman. This also helps reduce the case bulging problem. Having lubricated the neck, I worry about the bullet slipping during chambering so, I apply a medium factory crimp. The factory style crimp dies from Lee work best. Still I get just a bit of case bulging. The cartridges miss seating fully in the case gage by a few thousandths of an inch.
I would wager a bet that the lacker is for corrosion resistant as a sealant. The solvent would have degraded the lacker and any that was not removed would of been softer. This softer lacker would causing sticking and short stroking the slide. As for the brass polish I could see it imbedding into the lacker and also gripping the chamber wall harder causing a short stroke. I would say either clean it gently or completely remove it.
I wouldn't doubt that one bit, I also understand it is supposed to aid in feeding in the P90 magazines as well. I think you make a very good point though and it could even gum up in the chamber and cause the gun to not go completely into battery I think that is something we experienced in testing. I would love to revisit this cartridge in the future after years of tinkering with it and share all my newfound knowledge. Thank you for watching and taking the time to comment! --Jeremiah
Nice video! It seems like the brass needs to be lightly leaned so as not to disturb the coating or be cleaned enough to remove the coating completely. Have you tried annealing? Also, did you have the same result when tested with another firearm?
Ty for your knowledge sir. I just bought the lee turret press 4 hole. Would you still recommend using the same 2 dye set that you used? Thanks I am new to reloading and ask a lot of questions.
You are very welcome we are happy to share! Thank you for watching and you comment! Yes we only used the Redding dies to reload all of our ammo for testing. They are exceptional quality and we have had no issues with them. Given how sensitive the 5.7x28 is it is highly recommended to have good quality dies. If you have an Instagram or Facebook be sure to give us a follow there. We answer a lot of questions received there and cover a lot of topics related to reloading! Thanks again!
To be honest it varies greatly, to get started I would say about $500.00 these days but we have videos on individual reloading kits that you can price out. I would suggest checking those out! thanks for watching! --Jeremiah
You need: decent calipers Case trimmer/chamfer accurate scale/balance Powder thrower Press Dies in the caliber you're loading A bucket to clean brass Maybe a primer pocket reamer and a neck brush and a case size checker Lube Cases Powder Primers Bullets
Good video. However, I think the main question I have is there was no real address of the failures. The spent case was ejected and the next live round was fed. However, I couldn't really tell if there was a click from the firing pin. So, when there were failures, did the new round not go fully into battery or did the firing pin not reset? I can't see how the firing pin wouldn't reset since the spent case was ejected but it just seems very odd since it didn't seem like it was an issue with the new round going into battery from the video either. I am by no means an expert as I'm just now watching videos to learn how to reload this round. From what I've seen, usually the issue is ejection since a non-lacquered case can stick in the chamber. Yet, in this video, the failures do not seem to have anything to do with this issue.
Thank you and thank you for taking the time to watch and comment! That is correct, I found that interesting and it appeared to me at first that the hammer was falling however there is a built in safety mechanism in the Ruger to prevent it from firing out of battery and this is much more sensitive compared to the FN handgun. My current theory as to why this gun was failing was the coating was "gunking" up on the cases and preventing them from chambering completely and therefore engaging the out of battery safety and failing to fire. That is why no coating at all ran well and why cases with the coating in tact functioned as well. So hopefully that makes sense. Let me know if you have any further questions. --Jeremiah
With a normal load that is within pressure guidelines and is not pushing that envelope I will get 4-5 firings out of a single piece of brass but to be honest I usually loose the brass before then. Great question, thank you for taking the time to watch and comment! --Jeremiah
Did you use a wet tumbler with just water to clean your brass or did you use it with a cleaning solution like the Hornady case cleaning solution or frankfort arsenal solution? Did you use stainless steel media? Does the coating run off over time if you just use the wet tumbler?
We detailed each of the cleaning methods used in this video. I have not tried a wet tumbler and the only cleaning solution I have used so far is the Berry's brass polish, mineral spirits and the RCBS weapons cleaning solution in the ultrasonic cleaner. I have found dry tumbling with mineral spirits and the ultrasonic cleaner to remove the coating on the cases and I still get function in both the Ruger and the FN Five Seven pistol as well. I think the main cause of malfunction with the Ruger was the coating "gunking" up the chamber and preventing it from going fully into battery. Thanks for watching! --Jeremiah
Or the coating is preventing it from feeding and the firearm going fully into battery because it's hanging up in the chamber. I have retested this a few times and would like to get my hands on a PS 90 before I make any firm conclusions. But overall I think the Ruger and FN Five-seveN don't care too much about the coating. More testing needs to be conducted to be sure though. Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment! --Jeremiah
Great Video. I'm a long - time Handloader subscriber! Seems that the conclusion is that pulling all of the coating off ah-la the sonic cleaner worked, where as the other approaches that were not 100% removal did not work. Is that a reasonable conclusion? Kurt
I would say that is pretty reasonable, in doing further research a lot of folks are telling me it depends on the gun too, apparently the PS90 (P90) won't run without the coating on the case. In this test it seemed you either had to leave the coating untouched or you had to completely remove the coating. It is a strange critter to work with but it certainly can be done. I hope to revisit this at some point when I get my hands on a P90. Thanks for all your support and taking the time to watch and comment! --Jeremiah
I'm wondering... What is the cost of all the equipment used to reload, and then what is the cost of the components used I'm obviously trying to ultimately calculate the cost per round compared to factor ammo price. Thanks!
I would love to know more about the no primer strikes since you didn’t mention anything about a go no go gage I wonder if they were going to deep into the chamber or were you actually having fire pin problems
Great questions, The chamber was checked and it is in spec, the main issues seems to be that the gun was not going fully into battery. Now whether that caused by the coating on the cases that is the real question. My best guess is that on some of the methods the coating was starting to come off and that was enough to prevent the gun from going fully into battery. Which is why completely removing the coating worked and leaving the coating in tact worked but the in between seemed to be just enough to inconsistently hang up this gun. That is my best guess at this time. This is something I would love to revisit in the future with our FN, Ruger and an FN PS 90 as well as I hear that is the most finicky with the coating. Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment! --Jeremiah
We are actually using a full length sizing die from Redding's 2 die set. I do not think that neck sized brass would function in any of our test guns. Yes we used a 22 cal pilot on the trimmer. Care should be taken when trimming as well as the case necks are quite thin and easily damaged.
@@ShastaBean & @AustinAudiS6 thank you both for watching and taking the time to comment, I have heard so many different things on the coating and to be honest with you I am hesitant to say at this point in time exactly what it is for I am sure it has multiple purposes but until I see some primary source documents confirming the reasoning behind it I don't want to say for sure. Either way though we greatly appreciate the commentary and taking the time to watch! --Jeremiah
@ShastaBean I'd like to see some doc on that. I'm going by what FN told me 10yr ago when I started reloading for my FiveseveN.. but of course, the official stance from FN is, like all other mfg, they don't recommend reloading.
@@HandloaderTV one would have to go onto the forums and I've seen Jay @ EliteAmmunition and other pretty experienced others say this in various comments. The primary source info isn't about to fall into anyone's lap anytime soon, but he's worked with the cartridge for quite some time - even though he's extremely brash (that's putting it very lightly + I saw his comment in this video from a couple weeks ago - A jerk. lol.) According to the most experienced in the round, It's the timing (delay) of the blowback that is necessary to have a special lacquer-coated case that even makes sense - and because the case r = making it required given the considerably high pressures. It would be a bit ridiculous to think all of the expense and hassle of lacquer coating just for a particular magazine system feeding, but don't need it for another magazine? That notion doesn't even make sense given you demonstrated in your video there are issues in guns other than the P90 if the lacquer is gone. This blowback timing & function is also the reason there isn't a fixed-breech firearm in 5.7 x 28. It hasn't been developed (yet) to deal with the pressures if the case can't grow AND MOVE the way it needs to. Savage did try, though, and failed.
First, thank you very much, very informative, very useful knowledge. It seems fully lacquered or none at all works. Partially lacquered seems to fail. Mechanically, I'd be interested to know what the root cause is.
You are very welcome! We are happy to hear that you enjoyed it. It appears so, the Lacquered coating is very very interesting We hope to do more testing and hopefully come up with a definitive answer as to how and why it works or doesn't.
The 5.7 case is a straight-walled case. When a fired case is extracted, it does not create any clearance between the case and chamber because there is no taper involved. The polymer coating serves to lubricate the case to assist in both chambering and extraction. I regard 5.7 cases with scratched or removed polymer coating as being damaged and unsuitable for reloading. I go to extraordinary lengths to avoid damaging the polymer coating. The polymer coating also adds to the headspace. I check every reloaded round with a sizing gauge to insure that the headspace is correct.
@@6NBERLS I wonder if the coating would be necessary if the firearm had a roller delayed blowback design with fluted chambers cartridge, like the HK G3's.
@@marknice5480 I think the P90 design has a lot to do with it. That straight magazine on top can only work if the cartridges have straight sides. The pistols, having to fire the same cartridge as the carbine, inherit the straight-walled case with its lubrication problem. Molybdenum disulfide might work as a lubricant but, the mess would be intolerable. There are so many new high-tech dry lubricants on the market that I suspect one of them would suffice to patch up scratched 5.7x28 cases. But which one? I'm sure oil lubricant would work but, it would destroy primers and make a dandy mess.
Great question! Yes there are some differences some minor and some major, the biggest one in my mind is the magazine safety on the FN the Ruger does not have a magazine safety. The sights on the FN are 3 dot "combat style" sights while the Ruger is a standard rear with a fiber optic front sight. The FN has the safety just above the trigger on the frame while the ruger is more traditional with a 1911 style safety. I am sure I am forgetting a few others I would encourage you to check out our videos detailing both firearms. I have put the links below. Thank you for watching and excellent question! ua-cam.com/video/m5hBFvSOQeE/v-deo.html ua-cam.com/video/vOaqToNOEwk/v-deo.html
Good morning bud, I am new to the 5.7 and just got my rugger. Is it normal for the casings rim to get bent inward quite a bit after extraction? I'd say about 1/3 to 1/2 of diameter inward. I am not used to seeing this out of 9mm or 45.
Good morning! The Ruger is a pretty good gun I think you will like it! I think it is pretty normal I recall seeing a lot of tweaked case rims after firing and case life is really not that great with 5.7x28. I wouldn't worry too much about it, if the rim is bent too much it will not slide into your shell holder indicating that it may be time to discard the case. You may be able to bend it back but my guess would be that case is close to the end of it's life based on my experience with it. I would love to update this video at some point as I have learned a few more things when it comes to loading for the 5.7x28 but this should be more than enough to help get you started! Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment! --Jeremiah
@@HandloaderTV thank you so much for your help! I didn't know if I should have a concern since I hadn't seen new ammo/casings dent like this in other calibers! Thanks again!!!
@@soglostang04 You are very welcome! I wouldn't be overly concerned with it in this cartridge. It is certainly not normal in others but the 5.7x28 is a little different kind of animal. We are always happy to help! Thank you again for watching! --Jeremiah
Since the filming of this video I have cleaned with Stainless Steel pins and a few other methods and chemicals as well. I have a theory on the subject it seems that as the coating on the cases begins to rub off some of it can get built up in the chamber and cause issues or as the round is chambered in the firearm the lacquer coating prevents it from fully going into battery. So the best results are achieved when the coating is perfectly in tact or there is no coating on the case at all this seems to be true regardless of cleaning methods used. Thank you so much for watching!! --Jeremiah
Ruger 57 can short cycle and will then fail to reset the trigger. If the round is weak that is likely to happen. You need a chrony to see what you are doing.
That is very true these loads were chronographed and you can find the results of our load development with both the Ruger 57 and the FN Five seveN as well we have load development videos on both. Thanks for taking the time to watch and comment. --Jeremiah
@@JohnDoeEagle1 One interesting aspect to this Ruger is that it is very sensitive to being out of battery it does not take very much for that gun to fail to fire I think the lacquer coating was flaking off and as a result it was just enough to prevent the firing pin from contacting the primer. The tolerances are very tight on these Ruger 57s. Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment! --Jeremiah
Great video, thanks for posting!! One question I'm having is when sizing, I'm using my datum line comparator kit to check shoulder bump and my fired brass (ruger 5.7 pistol) I'm getting .975. Typical precision reloading says bump around. 002 bringing this down to .973. When checking FNH factory it reads .940 , moe than 30 thou under fired. Any thoughts? Im planning on starting at .966 kind of close to fired but way over factory which should be good for my pistol but maybe fnh is going way lower for reliable feeding in all the possible platforms? Thanks in advance
Sorry don't know how I didn't notice it before but Lyman 49th just answered my question. Says once fired factory ammo showed shoulders blown forward as much as. 050" !!! And to set back to factory spec in which mine reads. 938" using the #6-27 hornady comparator insert. Would still value any input on your experience with this though, thanks again
@@joevangorder1006 Sorry for the delay in replying, I have been out on the range the past few days working on the next video. We experienced the exact same thing the shoulders are blown significantly forward. We also noticed that after firing cases had a reverse taper measuring .007" larger at the shoulder than at the case head. I can find no reasoning or explanation as to why FN and Ruger is cutting the chambers in this manner. It does not make much sense to me. However you are correct they should be set back to factory specifications for two reasons. The first being for reliability sake and the second for safety it is possible to "undersize" the case and prevent the slide from going fully into battery and upon firing this could cause the gun to unlock prematurely and could result in catastrophic case failure. Which is why it is critical to full length resize the cases in spite it shortening the already short case life of the 5.7x28. I hope this helps and answers your questions. Thank you so much for watching and for commenting. Let us know if you have any further questions. -- Jeremiah
Thank you for the response ! I find that while published data is great, real world information from people such as yourself is priceless! I will keep an eye on the bulging issue to see if my chamber exhibits the same results. Thanks again
@@joevangorder1006 You are very welcome! We have found the same thing to be true and that is why we publish our magazines and conduct these videos we are all about sharing the knowledge and joy of handloading. Thank you for watching and for the great question.
@@HandloaderTV The blown forward shoulders are part of the delayed blowback operation of the Ruger and the FN. They are not actually locked breech designs, and actually start extracting the case while there is still a lot of pressure and the still expanded brass resists being pulled out until that drops. It is outright murder on case life. I would be quite interested to see if the issue exists on the new S&W M&P 5.7 - as that one claims a fully locked operating system, and may fix that issue and make the 5.7 much more handloader friendly.
When I first started reloading the 5.7, I used a set of RCBS dies. It was awful! On some of the cases, I had to re-lube them 2 or 3 times before I could get them completely resized. I then bought a Redding sizing die............WHAT A DIFFERENCE! The Redding die is so much better!!!
I had the same problem. The RCBS die would always scratch the lacquer coating. I solved the problem by lubricating with Imperial Sizing Wax and then making a first resizing pass with a Lee resizing die. The Lee die had a larger tolerance which would not scratch the lacquer but would not fully resize the case. I then did a second resizing with the RCBS die... and it worked. It did not scratch the lacquer. I have since learned to expand the neck size with a precision arbor to 0.233 inches (i.e. 0.001 inches smaller than the bullet diameter). This produces correct neck tension.
Yes you can use small pistol and small pistol magnum primers instead of small rifle primers. I would expect more a higher Standard deviation and extreme spread with pistol primers. However it is safe to substitute different brands of primers as well as always I suggest starting at minimum charge weights and slowly working your way to maximum.
I'm getting the Ruger 5.7 pistol and the rounds are a dollar a piece, so I'm planning to order a thousand shells and just make them myself. I swear by a Beretta M9 from my time in the Army, but I've always been fascinated by the 5.7 round.
But if you can get some teflon, you may be able to just spray the brass and then pop them in the oven for a while before you start loading, but definitely after some tumbling with a milder medium abrasive, like coal instead of glass. Or even both together might more effectively clean the shells.
@@francoisriche2167 I think you'll like the Ruger 57, we have one and so far it has done very well for us. The Beretta M9 is a tried and true pistol but I agree the 5.7x28 is a very interesting little cartridge and I suggest shooting it at 50-100 yards and you will be impressed with the accuracy of that little cartridge. Yeah I'll have to look into that and give it a try. So far I have had good luck with dry walnut shells in a vibratory tumbler.
Sadly we did not get around to using Power Pistol in the 5.7x28 hopefully some day in the future we'll get around to it. At this point though I am not even sure how it would perform or how much wiggle room there is when it comes to charge weights. Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment! --Jeremiah
Ha ha there in lies the question, some say yes some say no. I was hoping this testing would help answering that but apparently some folks say it depends on the gun. The coating doesn't seem to hurt anything so long as it's intact however it it is damaged it can become an issue. If completely removed it may or may not be an issue in some firearms. Sadly I think more testing is required. Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment! --Jeremiah
We do have info on the 22 Short Krag in a Mauser action in issue #71 of Handloader. We also have a great article on Krag pressure in issue #71 of Handloader. I think this would be of a great help to anyone working within the constraints of the Krag action. unfortunately we do not have any info that I am aware of on the 6mm Krag unless this cartridge is known by another name. We do have some info on .257 Krag though.
@@imfromthestreets5856 You're very welcome! I just wish I could have found one on the 6mm Krag. Here is a link to the issue #71 www.wolfeoutdoorsports.com/handloader-71-january-1978/ and I apologize the article on Krag actions pressure is in issue #62 not #71. I apologize for the confusion.
We had no issues with the build in crimp ring built into the Redding dies, since the filming of this video we have purchased a Lee factory crimp die and have had good results with that as well.
@@HandloaderTV appreciate the information would you be able to send a link to the Redding die you use and is there s relaoding video you may have that shows set by step 5.7x28 being reloading
@@yojimbo05 No problem always happy to help! Sure I will post the link below, sadly there is no retailer that I could find that has them in stock however we got ours from Midway USA. We do not have a video showing step by step this is the closest we have but if you follow the die instructions and our tips you should have no issues it's just like reloading .223 Rem. I do suggest checking your sized brass to ensure that you have correct headspace and make sure the firearm will go fully into battery. We did have some issues with random cases but this is also across over 1,000 once fired range pick up brass so that is to be expected. If you have any further questions don't hesitate to ask. I also suggest following us on Instagram It is a great way for us to interact with our followers and we can even send videos or pictures detailing the process. www.midwayusa.com/product/101244296
The coating has to do with timing of the pressure-curve and the brass expanding in a specific way at a specific moment - (how it moves in the chamber) (that's the abbreviated explanation as I've come to understand it)
I have heard that and I am sure that it has multiple functions but proving that to the internet is no easy feat. Rather we try to conduct the best testing we can and simply showcase the results and let the viewer decide and come to their own conclusions with a little commentary from me from time to time. Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment! --Jeremiah
I assume you are wanting light loads for 45 ACP? I would suggest checking out our website loaddata. com and looking for cast loads or lightweight jacketed bullets using trail boss powder. I think that is about the lightest loads you can get for .45 ACP. Thanks for watching! --Jeremiah
The coating is for lubricity. FN knew that oxidized brass causes problems so they did what was cost effective on a mass scale. My guess is that the coating is a thinned mcu. Kbs "diamond clear" is an example. Polished brass would have the same effect but is costly and time consuming for mass production. This is opinion on my behalf so take it with a grain (pun intended) of salt.😂
Also, in case anyone benefits from seeing test results - I've been posting vids for about a year both onto paper and some into gel & chrono. Not interested at all in self-promotion...I could care less about the channel growing. Only mention it because there's a serious lack of any sort of testing being done and results shared.
I agree in full and it seem that whenever anyone does post about it there is so much debate, misinformation and lack of understanding in the comments it's surprising. Appreciate you sharing your own experience with the channel and taking the time to watch out video we greatly appreciate it! --Jeremiah
You are very welcome thank you so much for watching we greatly appreciate it!! It is really hard to say these days with the prices of everything going up rapidly I would say currently somewhere around $540.00 if you buy everything separate and of decent quality. This is not counting the cost of components such as powder and what not but once you have all the tools you can reload other cartridges as well for simply the cost of the die sets and shell holders. Thanks again for watching! --Jeremiah
I've been reloading the 5.7 x 28 for a while and with the ps90 it jams without the lacquer coating. Ultra light Simple green and water mix cleaning 20 minutes while agitating by hand every 5 minutes for 2 1/2 minutes worked best for me. I think the simple green coats a bit too. The lacquer coating or a coating of some kind is 100% necessary for these rounds to work in a PS90 mag and cycling. Anyone else have different experience?
I honestly want a PS90 for that very reason because that is not the first time I have heard that and looking at the magazine system and how it works I could see the lack coating on the cases becoming an issue when it comes to feeding. I would love to hear some other folks chime in with their personal experience on this! Thank you for taking the time to watch and share your own experience!! --Jeremiah
@@HandloaderTV I checked on my assumption and the engineers figured the brass caused too much friction at even a slow rate of fire. On full auto the original prototype wouldnt get more than 5 or 6 rounds down range before jamming up. So without having to state the obvious haha the rounds needed a bit of dry lube to make it function. They tried a few different armor penetrating calibers as well, which I didn't know.
@@stokedonearth5097 That makes a lot of sense to me, I would love to be able to put that to the test one day! I think that would be very very interesting and it would finally put to rest all the internet myths and lore around this mysterious coating on the cases. Thank you for taking the time to explain all of that and share it here with us in the comments section it is greatly appreciated. --Jeremiah
The lacquer coating doesn't have anything at all to do with feeding or reliability. It is to protect against tarnish and corrosion in storage and add some moderate moisture or waterproof protection. All you guys must either be very young or inexperienced. Surplus 7.62x39mm and 5.45x39mm used in SKSs and AKs have been lacquer coated for decades. This whole thing is a giant myth.
@@JohnDoeEagle1 wow! Hahaha. Okay buddy. WRONG! I bet you don't own a PS90 or reload 5.7x28. when I took off lacquer coating it malfunctioned. I know through practical experience and through a lot of testing. In Canada its really hard to get 5.7x28 and we have to reload it if we want to use it frequently. Every brand that makes the 5.7x28 adds the lacquer coating.
It entirely depends on the powder you are using and the bullet you are using. We had great results in both the FN and Ruger pistols chambered in 5.7x28 using the 40 grain Hornady V-Max and 5.3 grains of True Blue for an average velocity of 1,744 FPS in the Ruger and 1,694 FPS in the FN. Start at 5.2 grains of True Blue and work your way up in tenth of a grain increments until desired accuracy and velocity is achieved. Max load would be 5.6 grains of True Blue powder with that bullet. Thank you for watching!
@@yojimbo05 No problem, That is what we are here for, The load should work for the PS-90 as well your velocity will be approx 18% higher with the longer barrel. I also recommend checking for function however I don't anticipate any issues.
Has anyone ever tried cfe BLK? They claim it's good for 17 hornet. I have a few cans of it and never use it after selling my 300 blkout. Would be great if I could use it for this so I can save my #7 for everything else. If not I think I'll try and work something up myself, I don't see any reasons why not unless I'm missing something.
To our best knowledge nobody has ever tried CFE Black in 5.7x28. There are a few issues with using CFE Black, in the 5.7x28 Cartridge, CFE BLK is a very slow burning compared to Accurate #7 and you would not achieve enough pressure to cycle the action. Also there is a great danger to using such a slow burning propellant. The slower burning powders have a longer pressure curve. When the handgun is fired it is possible for the action to open or unlock before pressure has dropped to safe levels and this can cause catastrophic failures and damage your gun and possibly you as well. The slowest burning powder we have tried is Accurate #9 and loads should be worked up with extreme caution. I would strongly advise against even attempting to use CFE BLK in this cartridge.
@@HandloaderTV ah thanks sounds like you saved me some time, I hadn't even looked for it on any charts or anything. lol. I guess this powder really is good for almost nothing that I own, I think I'll give it to someone who can use it. Thanks 👍
@@KurtOnoIR No problem always happy to help CFE BLK is a bit of a niche powder it is suitable in 17 hornet, 17 AI, 350 Legend, 300 blackout and the 300 Ham'r. I am sure I am forgetting a couple of cartridges. It is not a bad powder but it is not a versatile powder. No problem, thank you for your support!
In this video, he has a redding powder dispenser half full of powder and the baffle sitting on top of the powder. I am finding it hard to take anything I see here seriously if you don't even know what the powder baffle is for and how to use it. The baffle goes in first, then you pour the powder on top of it. It keeps an even amount of weight on the powder under the baffle, so the weight of a full tube of powder doesn't compress the powder being measured.
Adjusting your baffle can go a long way to adding in consistent powder drops especially if you are using a powder like True Blue that meters like water. If the powder is below the baffle there is an even amount of weight less the amount of powder you are dispensing which in this case (no pun intended) is not much at all. Some folks don't know because they haven't tried it and I can understand that but until you've tried it one should be more selective in their criticism. I got more accurate throws with the powder below the baffle and keeping it topped off than with the baffle. This is especially helpful if you are working at the end of a 1 pound powder can. At any rate thank you for watching we do appreciate the feedback. We are all about learning ourselves and helping educate others here, it is the passion that drives us and what we do. --Jeremiah
It's time ammo manufactures come up with a SAAMI standard for 5.7x28 after 30 years with increasing adoption of the caliber. Steel cased 5.7x28 anyone?
While there is no SAAMI standard for 5.7x28 there is a CIP standard and that is what most ammunition is loaded to. I am not sure how well steel cased ammunition would function in the certain 5.7x28 platforms simply due to the mysterious coating on the brass cases. It would be very interesting to find out though! Thank you for watching and taking the time to comment! --Jeremiah
No primer strike is a problem with your gun and has nothing to do with the case, loaded ammo or primer. Had they FTE, FTF, FTLSTR, or squib on you THAT is a ammo issue.
generally I would agree with you it would be an ammunition issue but I don't think that was entirely the case here. The loads were run through the same dies, the same powder charge double checked, cases inspected, everything was the as close as possible from load to load the only difference was the cleaning methods. And I really think that was the issue with the ammo. I could be wrong I would like to conduct more testing with different firearms as well. At any rate thank you for watching and taking the time to comment! --Jeremiah
ive been reloading this cartridge for years now (FN PS 90) i use this product after reloading and have never had one failure but i will say one thing it takes a lot cleaning to get the original coating off the original fn brass. just spray down your cases after reloading and your done heres a link. www.motionindustries.com/productDetail.jsp?sku=03511879
Very very interesting, Thank you for sharing your experiences. We just ordered two of those cans for further experimentation. We also ordered an FN Five-Seven for testing. Perhaps an FN PS 90 is in order for future testing. I have always thought this would be very interesting in a small bolt action as well. Thank you for watching!
Hi Craig i am a technical weapons expert i used to work in the firearms industry i have talked to FN and they are the ones that turned me onto this product it's supposed to be the same thing they put on the shells from the factory when there produced except their is no dry time they must put some type of like 2 part epoxy on the ones from the factory I'm no chemical engineer by any means hence the hard time removing the original coating. I'm not really sure what the shelf life of this stuff is i usually reload my shells and at the end i have a cookie sheet thrown them on their with a few red shop towels and spray down the shells rolling them back and forth any more info just ask oh 40gr bullet 5.0gr power pistol in my ps90
Not yet but we are in the planning stages of doing so... I think it would be a really really cool rifle especially if it had a relatively short barrel with a small lightweight action. It sounds like a great truck gun for varmints at reasonable ranges. There are a lot of questions I have about how the chambers are cut and dimensions of the chamber etc. Hopefully one day we will get to do a video on it in the future.
@@HandloaderTV I like that idea. One built on a mini Mauser would be neat. I think there's potential in the cartridge a bolt gun would bring out for a fun, cheap to shoot package.
@@stevepuyear2738 If we can get our hands on a mini Mauser I think that would make an awesome action! There is a lot of potential in this cartridge, it is very efficient and so long as you make the investment in brass it is very cheap to shoot when handloading. I think it has a lot more potential in a bolt gun using slower burning powders I think the cartridge performance would vastly improve.
We have heard of others using a Dupont dry lubricant on the cases once the proprietary coating has worn off but have not heard of the teflon bath and baking method. It sounds very interesting.
Yeah teflon is difficult to find, and I mean the aeresol, but it's amazing how it can almost completely convert a surface's composition. You need to bring the temperature up to get the spray's impurities off and to soften the metal to accept it.
@@francoisriche2167 Yeah I can imagine, I have some Dupont dry lubricant aerosol but I have yet to use it on the 5.7 cases I have just been running them in a dry tumbler with good results so far. I'll have to keep my eyes peeled for the Teflon stuff as well.
May I ask why? The tests conducted were to show the results of various cleaning methods and put some of the internet debate to rest. We also have full load development videos on both the Ruger 57 and the FN Five SeveN and the results we got were quite good. I will link to them below should you wish to check them out. ua-cam.com/video/m5hBFvSOQeE/v-deo.html Ruger 57 ua-cam.com/video/vOaqToNOEwk/v-deo.html FN Five SeveN
We covered specific cleaning methods and how they can effect function in the firearm and the coating as well. As mentioned in the video we believe the coating is proprietary and there is little reliable info available at this time. We covered die set up and trimming, weighing powder and seating bullets. What specifics are you looking for?
I don't want to be a safety patrol nut, but you might want to wear glasses and earplugs when doing the primers. I can speak from 45 years of experience I have personally had a primer go off during this process and the first time was without earplugs and man my ears were ringing for quite some time. And please remove your powder while you're doing the priming operation. Minimize the hazard. Same thing when you are loading the powder into the case, have a small container for loading, but put the original container in a separate area.
I'm going to be loading some for the first time next week and I'm going to try something I have yet for someone to address - I'm going to lightly spray them with dry film lubricant after they're loaded and see if the DFL will essentially replace the lost lacquer coating. Should be interesting.
I enjoyed your video, it was instructional and very informative, and wish you continued safe loading. 👍
Thanks for the great video.
The internet had scared me away from attempting to reload 5.7x28 but this video has set my mind at ease.
Paying $1 a round locally also helped... Lol
No problem thank you for taking the time to watch, it is a little tricky to load for and it takes a lot of trimming but it certainly can be done with some tinkering and practice! Thanks for watching and for the kind words! --Jeremiah
Impaired primer strike indicates one should examine if the slide is fully in battery, as a properly designed pistol won’t fire if it’s OOB.
That is exactly what is happening the firing pin is not striking the primer because it is out of battery the question is if it is out of battery because of the coating or not. I have tested this further and to be honest the results are confusing it seems that coating does not matter with most firearms. I would love to get my hands on a P90 and put that to the test, as I hear it is more sensitive to the coating. Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment! --Jeremiah
An old trick I learned with 22 mag was to put sizing wax on the cases he would help feed in the keltec PMR 30
My experience with the Ruger is that if the bolt does not completely close, the trigger will not complete the cocking of the hammer and the hammer will not fall, as a result there will be no contact with the hammer and the firing pin,and the primer will not have any firing pin mark. This is apparently a safety feature of the Ruger to prevent the gun firing out of battery. I readjusted my sizing die to insert the cases deeper, so that the bottle neck portion of the case was more completely formed, and so that the slide and barrel would be in full contract, and have had no problems since
That is very very true and we have experienced that as well, I think it is actually an out of battery safety as well. This is something that I mentioned in our video on the Ruger 57 handgun. I think this subject is something I would like to revisit with a PS 90 as a lot of folks say it will not feed without the coating on the cases. I adjust my sizing die in a very similar manner to what you are describing though. Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment! --Jeremiah
Very well done episode of HandloaderTV. The issue of laquered cases is not something I've needed to consider with my experiences and I hope you revisit the subject in the future.
Thank you very much we appreciate the feedback! We are definitely planning on revisiting this in the near future with both FN and the Ruger handguns in 5.7x28.
Been reloading 5.7 for almost 4 years. Shoot them either through my old AR57 rifle or my newer CMMG Banshee 57. My cleaning process is to tumble in corncob for 1 hour, deprime and size with hornady spray case lube, clean primer pocket, then tumble again for 1 hour. No problems with the loss of the case lacquer. Pistols may just be more sensitive to this without a big heavy bolt slamming these into the chamber.
Very interesting thank you for sharing that info, It seems like there are a lot of methods out there that seem to work well. In our tumble test for 2 1/2 hours we had no feeding issues or failures, so it appears that light tumbling won't damage the coating on the cases. Thanks for sharing your experiences and thank you for watching!
I've had problems with occasional neck separation. Weirdly only in my fn 5.7 pistol. I clean pretty much the same as you except for using a 50-50 crushed walnut corn cob mix. Thats just the mix I've always used for everything, maybe I should try just corn cob. Pretty sure its not a sizing issue but it happens so seldom and after it happens its too late to find out.* edit, never happens in my ps90. The only 2 5.7's I own. I should add that I've forgotten brass in the tumbler for a few hours at least and didn't seem any worse.
@@KurtOnoIR I have also had some neck separation problems. However I think that is a brass issue as opposed to an over-cleaning issue. I have discovered the hard way that 5.7 brass can only be reloaded 2 to 3 times before I start getting unpredictable case failures. Be very careful with these delicate cartridges when you reload them. Reloading 5.7 is not for the faint of heart. Keep very careful note of how often each set of brass is reloaded.
@@KurtOnoIR I have also had some neck separation problems. However I think that is a brass issue as opposed to an over-cleaning issue. I have discovered the hard way that 5.7 brass can only be reloaded 2 to 3 times before I start getting unpredictable case failures. Be very careful with these delicate cartridges when you reload them. Reloading 5.7 is not for the faint of heart. Keep very careful note of how often each set of brass is reloaded.
@@KurtOnoIR curious what sort of energy ft-lbs you were at with the separations...or, what weight / velocity did it happen?
I have heard several theories about the lacquer coating on 5.7x28 cartridges. These all stem from the shape of the case. There is actually a 0.001 inch taper on the case but, this amounts to a straight walled case.
They needed a straight wall case to facilitate the straight line magazines used in P90's and PS90's. Any significant taper would have mandated a banana magazine like in the AK47.
Rumor has it that the lacquer lubricant aids in feeding 50 cartridges up the straight lined magazine. That's a lot of friction to overcome.
More believably, the rumor is that the lubricant is necessary to get the spent cases to extract from the chamber. Most rifle-style cases employ a substantial taper to help them break loose from the chamber. The 5.7x28, being straight walled, needs a lubricant to help out.
I have found it essential to maintain the lacquer lubricant intact. I discard scratched cases. I clean the cases using an ultrasonic cleaner from Hornady... no tumbling... ever.
This is the best I have seen and most complete for the 5.7x28mm cartridge!! Thanks man for the info! I haven’t got the pistol but I have a pair of P90’s these are super weapons and an amazing varmint round!!
Thank you so much for watching we do appreciate it! I would love to have a little Howa Mini action chambered in 5.7x28 with a shorter barrel perhaps 16" for the sole purpose of a varmint truck gun! I think it is an outstanding varmint cartridge! Glad you enjoyed the production, We strive to offer the most compressive and trustworthy data on any given subject. Always nice to hear we are meeting that goal. lots more to come in the future on other subjects so don't forget to subscribe if you haven't already. Thanks for watching and for the kind words.
Theres is barely any reloading videos for 5.7. Thanks for making this. Also very weird that neither FN or Federal disclose what is the magic coating on the cases thats causing jams.
You are very welcome it is very doable, just a bit tedious mostly because of how often you have to trim but still worthwhile. I would like to revisit this at some point as well and detail what else I have learned since this filming. The coating on the case is very interesting though. Thanks for watching and good loading to you! --Jeremiah
"barely any videos" - now THERE's an understatement!!
I've been uploading my results for about a year in case it is of any benefit for others.
The coating has to do with how timing of the pressure-curve and brass expanding (how it moves) in the chamber takes place.
@@ShastaBean I will check your videos. Thanks for let us know.
Great video! Ive been afraid to reload 5.7x28 due to the coating on the cases. Plus load data is pretty much non-existent in many places. Seeing this video made me realize that I definitely can reload the round.
we are very glad to hear that! We are happy we can help you start reloading this awesome cartridge. If you have any questions or concerns don't hesitate to reach out to us. Thank you for watching!
I also hand load my own subsonic loads with standard 55 grain boat tail bullets and 3.3gr of true blue. Works well for me. But I carefully worked this up for my Banshee.
Subsonic 5.7x28 sounds like a lot of fun! If only the cartridge was not so finicky we would have been happy to test out more loads but we thought it may be wise to stick with published pressure tested data for out video.
@@HandloaderTV I agree completely. My subsonic load experiments were careful and methodical with testing of various powders and weights with a specific firearms. Thankfully, with sub loads the pressures seem much less and the brass lasts a little longer. When combined with my dedicated Gemtech 57 suppressor on either my AR57 pistol variant or my Banshee 57, I have really made something interesting and uncommon that garners comments at the range.
@@Lawraven Indeed that is the only way to work up 5.7 loads. That sounds awesome! I can imagine that little darling is a joy to shoot! I may have to look into the Banshee 57 for myself! I have a played with a lot of subsonic stuff and I find it most interesting and a whole lot of fun to just tinker with.
Something you may wish to try is ceramic media. I use micro bright 2mm ceramic polishing media in my wet tumbler fof about an hour or two. Brass comes out great. May work well for the lacquer coating.
Great suggestion thank you for taking the time to watch and comment, we hope to revisit this subject in the future with more firearms for testing purposed. --Jeremiah
Great Video! I would like to see some tests with heavier bullets, maybe in the 50 to 55 grain. The brass cleaning tests were great! I've been using the Simple Green and water, but I now will try dry tumbling.
Thank you very much we are glad you enjoyed it! We would cover the heavier bullets if there was any published reputable pressure tested data. At this time the cost of pressure testing this cartridge with heavier bullets and the lack of components we just can not justify the pressure testing ourselves. Hopefully one day though! The tests we performed surprised us greatly but we are happy with the results and have been dry tumbling ever since without any issues. Thanks for watching!
Moral to the story is leave the the Lacquer coating alone!!
Generally speaking yes! With gentle cleaning methods you should have no issues. Thank you for watching!
@@HandloaderTV No, Thank You for doing your video for us!!!😋
@@jwedgest67 You are very welcome! We are happy to do it!
Aye I really appreciate your video . I have no intent in reloading but I just purchased a 57 and kinda just wanna learn as much as I can about the pistol and Ammo . But regardless good job kid 😉👍🏽🇺🇸
No problem, our goal here is to provide as much accurate and unbiased information as possible in whatever we do and hopefully build up a helpful and loyal following of those who truly want to learn! Thank you for watching and your kind comment. We hope you enjoy your 5.7 and if you have any questions feel free to reach out to us at any time!
I’ve held off buying anything in this calibre because of the lacquer coating issues when reloading. It looks like you’re definitely on to something with your theories. I’ll be waiting to see what other information you come up with. Thanks for the vid. Very informative. 👍👍
It is a mess of confusing and contradicting claims on the internet we wanted to show you what actually happens. We are very excited to continue our 5.7x28 tests and come up with a solid conclusion as to how to clean the brass. Glad you enjoyed the video and thank you for watching!
Bought the S&W version of the 5.7×28mm. Want to handload some 50 grain Barnes VLC bullets. Can't find any load data for bullets over 45 grains. I think the rule of thumb is slower burning powders for heavier bullets when extrapolating data from published loads, if I recall.
I want to try TCM, AA#9, Power Pistol, 4227, and CFE Pistol. Thinking if I start at the minimum for the 45 grain and work up, I can leave the range with a smile, an intact pistol, and five fingers! 😂
Those Barnes VLC bullets are a bit of an oddball and can be a little different in terms of pressure generation. There is not much loaddata out there for 5.7x28 if you are extremely knowledgeable I would recommend looking into Gordon's Reloading tool online. It is free to use and will help you extrapolate loads in a wide array of cartridges. I think we may have some load data with Accurate No. 9 on Loaddata.com if you wanted to check that out. The 5.7x28 is certainly a finicky cartridge and can be a challenge to work with but also very rewarding once you get it figured out. Thanks for watching! --Jeremiah
Hello, I was wondering what kind of dies did you use in the process? Which ones would you recommend?
I ask since I ordered one Lee precision dies and there seems to be a lot of negative comments on them but I guess I won’t know for sure until I load them to see how it goes. Thank You for the video!! Super informative!!
We used Redding dies throughout all of our testing and they worked very well with no issues. One thing we did notice is that you must ensure the die is screwed down enough to make good contact with the shell holder. We have not used the Lee dies for this cartridge but it is worth a shot, If they don't work for you I would suggest trying Redding. Glad you enjoyed the video, thank you for watching!
Awesome video, thank you! Sounds like the lacquer thinner probably made the coating gummy/sticky I bet. If it completely removed it then probably no problems, but sounds like your observation said there was still some left?
Thank you for the kind words and taking the time to comment! I agree in full with you assessment, as 5.7x28 grows in popularity I would like to revisit this with a couple of different guns in particular the P90 from FN. It is my understanding that the P90 will not operate without the coating on the case but I have heard a lot of mixed reports on this. Both the Ruger 57 and FN Five-seveN will operate without the coating on the case though so long as it's completely removed or completely intact. I hope that helps you out, thank you so much for watching! --Jeremiah
Very well done video, unfortunately by using the one American made gun it failed to address the root cause for the lacquer coating. I reload this round and I use it in the FN pistol and the P90 and have found that these devices will fail to operate if the lacquer is damaged or not present at all. I currently use the simple green process for about 15 minutes and then rinse and repeat a second time after I have removed the primer first. I look forward to the future video you have mentioned in where are you planning to use the FN pistol.
I must admit at the time of this filming we did not have the FN Five-seveN and we are still looking into getting a P90. That is very interesting how the coating effects performance in the FN firearms and not the Ruger. We will have to do further testing so we can address further questions about this topic. We did do a video on the FN pistol I will paste the link below but we did keep the case coating in tact for all handloading in that video. Thanks for watching and thank you for sharing your experience.
ua-cam.com/video/vOaqToNOEwk/v-deo.html FN Five-seveN video.
It would be better to test the cases in a case gage 1) after resizing, 2) after bullet seating... just to be sure that the procedures are working. I prefer the "slotted" (i.e. cutaway) style case gages from Sheridan Engineering.
I have had a lot of trouble with the seating of the bullet causing the case to bulge. To deal with this I first use a precision expansion arbor to open the case neck to a diameter of 0.223 inches. This is one thousandth less than the bullet diameter. I find that minimal neck tension helps to control the case bulging during bullet seating.
I also lubricate the inside of the case neck using a Q-tip with a fine mica dry lubricant from Lyman. This also helps reduce the case bulging problem. Having lubricated the neck, I worry about the bullet slipping during chambering so, I apply a medium factory crimp. The factory style crimp dies from Lee work best.
Still I get just a bit of case bulging. The cartridges miss seating fully in the case gage by a few thousandths of an inch.
I would wager a bet that the lacker is for corrosion resistant as a sealant. The solvent would have degraded the lacker and any that was not removed would of been softer. This softer lacker would causing sticking and short stroking the slide. As for the brass polish I could see it imbedding into the lacker and also gripping the chamber wall harder causing a short stroke. I would say either clean it gently or completely remove it.
I wouldn't doubt that one bit, I also understand it is supposed to aid in feeding in the P90 magazines as well. I think you make a very good point though and it could even gum up in the chamber and cause the gun to not go completely into battery I think that is something we experienced in testing. I would love to revisit this cartridge in the future after years of tinkering with it and share all my newfound knowledge. Thank you for watching and taking the time to comment! --Jeremiah
Nice video! It seems like the brass needs to be lightly leaned so as not to disturb the coating or be cleaned enough to remove the coating completely. Have you tried annealing? Also, did you have the same result when tested with another firearm?
Ty for your knowledge sir. I just bought the lee turret press 4 hole. Would you still recommend using the same 2 dye set that you used? Thanks I am new to reloading and ask a lot of questions.
You are very welcome we are happy to share! Thank you for watching and you comment! Yes we only used the Redding dies to reload all of our ammo for testing. They are exceptional quality and we have had no issues with them. Given how sensitive the 5.7x28 is it is highly recommended to have good quality dies. If you have an Instagram or Facebook be sure to give us a follow there. We answer a lot of questions received there and cover a lot of topics related to reloading! Thanks again!
I would love to do this! What is the cost of equipment? 🧐
To be honest it varies greatly, to get started I would say about $500.00 these days but we have videos on individual reloading kits that you can price out. I would suggest checking those out! thanks for watching! --Jeremiah
You need:
decent calipers
Case trimmer/chamfer
accurate scale/balance
Powder thrower
Press
Dies in the caliber you're loading
A bucket to clean brass
Maybe a primer pocket reamer and a neck brush and a case size checker
Lube
Cases
Powder
Primers
Bullets
@@kingofbrutaltheocracy9201 Indeed, that is a good list thanks for sharing that! --Jeremiah
Good video. However, I think the main question I have is there was no real address of the failures. The spent case was ejected and the next live round was fed. However, I couldn't really tell if there was a click from the firing pin. So, when there were failures, did the new round not go fully into battery or did the firing pin not reset? I can't see how the firing pin wouldn't reset since the spent case was ejected but it just seems very odd since it didn't seem like it was an issue with the new round going into battery from the video either.
I am by no means an expert as I'm just now watching videos to learn how to reload this round. From what I've seen, usually the issue is ejection since a non-lacquered case can stick in the chamber. Yet, in this video, the failures do not seem to have anything to do with this issue.
Thank you and thank you for taking the time to watch and comment! That is correct, I found that interesting and it appeared to me at first that the hammer was falling however there is a built in safety mechanism in the Ruger to prevent it from firing out of battery and this is much more sensitive compared to the FN handgun. My current theory as to why this gun was failing was the coating was "gunking" up on the cases and preventing them from chambering completely and therefore engaging the out of battery safety and failing to fire. That is why no coating at all ran well and why cases with the coating in tact functioned as well. So hopefully that makes sense. Let me know if you have any further questions. --Jeremiah
Thank you for the great work! How many reloads are you getting from a single piece of brass?
With a normal load that is within pressure guidelines and is not pushing that envelope I will get 4-5 firings out of a single piece of brass but to be honest I usually loose the brass before then. Great question, thank you for taking the time to watch and comment! --Jeremiah
Did you use a wet tumbler with just water to clean your brass or did you use it with a cleaning solution like the Hornady case cleaning solution or frankfort arsenal solution? Did you use stainless steel media? Does the coating run off over time if you just use the wet tumbler?
We detailed each of the cleaning methods used in this video. I have not tried a wet tumbler and the only cleaning solution I have used so far is the Berry's brass polish, mineral spirits and the RCBS weapons cleaning solution in the ultrasonic cleaner. I have found dry tumbling with mineral spirits and the ultrasonic cleaner to remove the coating on the cases and I still get function in both the Ruger and the FN Five Seven pistol as well. I think the main cause of malfunction with the Ruger was the coating "gunking" up the chamber and preventing it from going fully into battery. Thanks for watching! --Jeremiah
Kinda odd that the failures had no primer strikes, that doesn't seem to be an issue with a case coating but maybe the trimming of the case.
Or the coating is preventing it from feeding and the firearm going fully into battery because it's hanging up in the chamber. I have retested this a few times and would like to get my hands on a PS 90 before I make any firm conclusions. But overall I think the Ruger and FN Five-seveN don't care too much about the coating. More testing needs to be conducted to be sure though. Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment! --Jeremiah
Well done sir and thank you so much for the information
No problem we are happy you found it informative and helpful! Thank you for watching!
Great Video. I'm a long - time Handloader subscriber! Seems that the conclusion is that pulling all of the coating off ah-la the sonic cleaner worked, where as the other approaches that were not 100% removal did not work. Is that a reasonable conclusion?
Kurt
I would say that is pretty reasonable, in doing further research a lot of folks are telling me it depends on the gun too, apparently the PS90 (P90) won't run without the coating on the case. In this test it seemed you either had to leave the coating untouched or you had to completely remove the coating. It is a strange critter to work with but it certainly can be done. I hope to revisit this at some point when I get my hands on a P90. Thanks for all your support and taking the time to watch and comment! --Jeremiah
I'm wondering... What is the cost of all the equipment used to reload, and then what is the cost of the components used I'm obviously trying to ultimately calculate the cost per round compared to factor ammo price. Thanks!
Great information!
Glad you enjoyed the video thank you for taking the time to watch and comment! --Jeremiah
I haven't yet seen any manufactures offering new brass cases for this cartridge. Anyone else seen anything?
I would love to know more about the no primer strikes since you didn’t mention anything about a go no go gage I wonder if they were going to deep into the chamber or were you actually having fire pin problems
Great questions, The chamber was checked and it is in spec, the main issues seems to be that the gun was not going fully into battery. Now whether that caused by the coating on the cases that is the real question. My best guess is that on some of the methods the coating was starting to come off and that was enough to prevent the gun from going fully into battery. Which is why completely removing the coating worked and leaving the coating in tact worked but the in between seemed to be just enough to inconsistently hang up this gun. That is my best guess at this time. This is something I would love to revisit in the future with our FN, Ruger and an FN PS 90 as well as I hear that is the most finicky with the coating. Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment! --Jeremiah
You are using a neck and not a full length sizing die, correct? Also, are you using the #22 pilot on the trimmer? Also, what shell holder?
We are actually using a full length sizing die from Redding's 2 die set. I do not think that neck sized brass would function in any of our test guns. Yes we used a 22 cal pilot on the trimmer. Care should be taken when trimming as well as the case necks are quite thin and easily damaged.
The coating is a self-lubrication coating for use in the P90 mags. You don't need the coating for standard mags.
there's a bit more to it than that.
It has to do with how brass expands during firing and movement within the chamber during the pressure-spike.
@@ShastaBean & @AustinAudiS6 thank you both for watching and taking the time to comment, I have heard so many different things on the coating and to be honest with you I am hesitant to say at this point in time exactly what it is for I am sure it has multiple purposes but until I see some primary source documents confirming the reasoning behind it I don't want to say for sure. Either way though we greatly appreciate the commentary and taking the time to watch! --Jeremiah
@ShastaBean I'd like to see some doc on that. I'm going by what FN told me 10yr ago when I started reloading for my FiveseveN.. but of course, the official stance from FN is, like all other mfg, they don't recommend reloading.
@@AustinAudiS6your OP says; "You don't need the coating for standard mags."
But, the video shows otherwise, doesn't it?
@@HandloaderTV one would have to go onto the forums and I've seen Jay @ EliteAmmunition and other pretty experienced others say this in various comments. The primary source info isn't about to fall into anyone's lap anytime soon, but he's worked with the cartridge for quite some time - even though he's extremely brash (that's putting it very lightly + I saw his comment in this video from a couple weeks ago - A jerk. lol.)
According to the most experienced in the round, It's the timing (delay) of the blowback that is necessary to have a special lacquer-coated case that even makes sense - and because the case r = making it required given the considerably high pressures. It would be a bit ridiculous to think all of the expense and hassle of lacquer coating just for a particular magazine system feeding, but don't need it for another magazine? That notion doesn't even make sense given you demonstrated in your video there are issues in guns other than the P90 if the lacquer is gone.
This blowback timing & function is also the reason there isn't a fixed-breech firearm in 5.7 x 28. It hasn't been developed (yet) to deal with the pressures if the case can't grow AND MOVE the way it needs to. Savage did try, though, and failed.
Very good info, thanks
You are very welcome thank you so much for watching! -- Jeremiah
First, thank you very much, very informative, very useful knowledge. It seems fully lacquered or none at all works. Partially lacquered seems to fail. Mechanically, I'd be interested to know what the root cause is.
You are very welcome! We are happy to hear that you enjoyed it. It appears so, the Lacquered coating is very very interesting We hope to do more testing and hopefully come up with a definitive answer as to how and why it works or doesn't.
The 5.7 case is a straight-walled case. When a fired case is extracted, it does not create any clearance between the case and chamber because there is no taper involved. The polymer coating serves to lubricate the case to assist in both chambering and extraction. I regard 5.7 cases with scratched or removed polymer coating as being damaged and unsuitable for reloading. I go to extraordinary lengths to avoid damaging the polymer coating.
The polymer coating also adds to the headspace. I check every reloaded round with a sizing gauge to insure that the headspace is correct.
@@6NBERLS I wonder if the coating would be necessary if the firearm had a roller delayed blowback design with fluted chambers cartridge, like the HK G3's.
@@marknice5480 I think the P90 design has a lot to do with it. That straight magazine on top can only work if the cartridges have straight sides. The pistols, having to fire the same cartridge as the carbine, inherit the straight-walled case with its lubrication problem. Molybdenum disulfide might work as a lubricant but, the mess would be intolerable. There are so many new high-tech dry lubricants on the market that I suspect one of them would suffice to patch up scratched 5.7x28 cases. But which one? I'm sure oil lubricant would work but, it would destroy primers and make a dandy mess.
Any difference between the ruger and the fn pistol? Can one deal with reloaded rounds better then the other?
Great question! Yes there are some differences some minor and some major, the biggest one in my mind is the magazine safety on the FN the Ruger does not have a magazine safety. The sights on the FN are 3 dot "combat style" sights while the Ruger is a standard rear with a fiber optic front sight. The FN has the safety just above the trigger on the frame while the ruger is more traditional with a 1911 style safety. I am sure I am forgetting a few others I would encourage you to check out our videos detailing both firearms. I have put the links below. Thank you for watching and excellent question!
ua-cam.com/video/m5hBFvSOQeE/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/vOaqToNOEwk/v-deo.html
Are these Lee Precision reloading kits good for reloading 5.7×28 I'm wanting to start reloading so I need some advice on what kit I should get
Good morning bud, I am new to the 5.7 and just got my rugger. Is it normal for the casings rim to get bent inward quite a bit after extraction? I'd say about 1/3 to 1/2 of diameter inward. I am not used to seeing this out of 9mm or 45.
Good morning! The Ruger is a pretty good gun I think you will like it! I think it is pretty normal I recall seeing a lot of tweaked case rims after firing and case life is really not that great with 5.7x28. I wouldn't worry too much about it, if the rim is bent too much it will not slide into your shell holder indicating that it may be time to discard the case. You may be able to bend it back but my guess would be that case is close to the end of it's life based on my experience with it. I would love to update this video at some point as I have learned a few more things when it comes to loading for the 5.7x28 but this should be more than enough to help get you started! Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment! --Jeremiah
@@HandloaderTV thank you so much for your help! I didn't know if I should have a concern since I hadn't seen new ammo/casings dent like this in other calibers! Thanks again!!!
@@soglostang04 You are very welcome! I wouldn't be overly concerned with it in this cartridge. It is certainly not normal in others but the 5.7x28 is a little different kind of animal. We are always happy to help! Thank you again for watching! --Jeremiah
you need to try cleaning some with the stainless pins to see if they will function at all/
Since the filming of this video I have cleaned with Stainless Steel pins and a few other methods and chemicals as well. I have a theory on the subject it seems that as the coating on the cases begins to rub off some of it can get built up in the chamber and cause issues or as the round is chambered in the firearm the lacquer coating prevents it from fully going into battery. So the best results are achieved when the coating is perfectly in tact or there is no coating on the case at all this seems to be true regardless of cleaning methods used. Thank you so much for watching!! --Jeremiah
Ruger 57 can short cycle and will then fail to reset the trigger.
If the round is weak that is likely to happen.
You need a chrony to see what you are doing.
That is very true these loads were chronographed and you can find the results of our load development with both the Ruger 57 and the FN Five seveN as well we have load development videos on both. Thanks for taking the time to watch and comment. --Jeremiah
Most of them fired when he reloaded and tried them again. IMO there is a problem with that particular pistol not the ammo.
@@JohnDoeEagle1 One interesting aspect to this Ruger is that it is very sensitive to being out of battery it does not take very much for that gun to fail to fire I think the lacquer coating was flaking off and as a result it was just enough to prevent the firing pin from contacting the primer. The tolerances are very tight on these Ruger 57s. Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment! --Jeremiah
Thanks for the info.
Great video, thanks for posting!! One question I'm having is when sizing, I'm using my datum line comparator kit to check shoulder bump and my fired brass (ruger 5.7 pistol) I'm getting .975. Typical precision reloading says bump around. 002 bringing this down to .973. When checking FNH factory it reads .940 , moe than 30 thou under fired. Any thoughts? Im planning on starting at .966 kind of close to fired but way over factory which should be good for my pistol but maybe fnh is going way lower for reliable feeding in all the possible platforms? Thanks in advance
Sorry don't know how I didn't notice it before but Lyman 49th just answered my question. Says once fired factory ammo showed shoulders blown forward as much as. 050" !!! And to set back to factory spec in which mine reads. 938" using the #6-27 hornady comparator insert. Would still value any input on your experience with this though, thanks again
@@joevangorder1006 Sorry for the delay in replying, I have been out on the range the past few days working on the next video. We experienced the exact same thing the shoulders are blown significantly forward. We also noticed that after firing cases had a reverse taper measuring .007" larger at the shoulder than at the case head. I can find no reasoning or explanation as to why FN and Ruger is cutting the chambers in this manner. It does not make much sense to me. However you are correct they should be set back to factory specifications for two reasons. The first being for reliability sake and the second for safety it is possible to "undersize" the case and prevent the slide from going fully into battery and upon firing this could cause the gun to unlock prematurely and could result in catastrophic case failure. Which is why it is critical to full length resize the cases in spite it shortening the already short case life of the 5.7x28. I hope this helps and answers your questions. Thank you so much for watching and for commenting. Let us know if you have any further questions. -- Jeremiah
Thank you for the response ! I find that while published data is great, real world information from people such as yourself is priceless! I will keep an eye on the bulging issue to see if my chamber exhibits the same results. Thanks again
@@joevangorder1006 You are very welcome! We have found the same thing to be true and that is why we publish our magazines and conduct these videos we are all about sharing the knowledge and joy of handloading. Thank you for watching and for the great question.
@@HandloaderTV The blown forward shoulders are part of the delayed blowback operation of the Ruger and the FN. They are not actually locked breech designs, and actually start extracting the case while there is still a lot of pressure and the still expanded brass resists being pulled out until that drops. It is outright murder on case life.
I would be quite interested to see if the issue exists on the new S&W M&P 5.7 - as that one claims a fully locked operating system, and may fix that issue and make the 5.7 much more handloader friendly.
When I first started reloading the 5.7, I used a set of RCBS dies. It was awful! On some of the cases, I had to re-lube them 2 or 3 times before I could get them completely resized. I then bought a Redding sizing die............WHAT A DIFFERENCE! The Redding die is so much better!!!
I had the same problem. The RCBS die would always scratch the lacquer coating. I solved the problem by lubricating with Imperial Sizing Wax and then making a first resizing pass with a Lee resizing die. The Lee die had a larger tolerance which would not scratch the lacquer but would not fully resize the case. I then did a second resizing with the RCBS die... and it worked. It did not scratch the lacquer. I have since learned to expand the neck size with a precision arbor to 0.233 inches (i.e. 0.001 inches smaller than the bullet diameter). This produces correct neck tension.
Can you use Federal Small Piatol primers if you can't find CCI Primers?
Yes you can use small pistol and small pistol magnum primers instead of small rifle primers. I would expect more a higher Standard deviation and extreme spread with pistol primers. However it is safe to substitute different brands of primers as well as always I suggest starting at minimum charge weights and slowly working your way to maximum.
That sand tumble seems to he very effective
The dry tumbling worked very well in our test firearm and we did not experience any issues with that brass cleaning method. Thank you for watching!
I'm getting the Ruger 5.7 pistol and the rounds are a dollar a piece, so I'm planning to order a thousand shells and just make them myself. I swear by a Beretta M9 from my time in the Army, but I've always been fascinated by the 5.7 round.
But if you can get some teflon, you may be able to just spray the brass and then pop them in the oven for a while before you start loading, but definitely after some tumbling with a milder medium abrasive, like coal instead of glass. Or even both together might more effectively clean the shells.
@@francoisriche2167 I think you'll like the Ruger 57, we have one and so far it has done very well for us. The Beretta M9 is a tried and true pistol but I agree the 5.7x28 is a very interesting little cartridge and I suggest shooting it at 50-100 yards and you will be impressed with the accuracy of that little cartridge. Yeah I'll have to look into that and give it a try. So far I have had good luck with dry walnut shells in a vibratory tumbler.
I see power pistol on your bench but have not seen any load data for it.
Sadly we did not get around to using Power Pistol in the 5.7x28 hopefully some day in the future we'll get around to it. At this point though I am not even sure how it would perform or how much wiggle room there is when it comes to charge weights. Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment! --Jeremiah
Aren’t the cases supposed to have a special coating?
Ha ha there in lies the question, some say yes some say no. I was hoping this testing would help answering that but apparently some folks say it depends on the gun. The coating doesn't seem to hurt anything so long as it's intact however it it is damaged it can become an issue. If completely removed it may or may not be an issue in some firearms. Sadly I think more testing is required. Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment! --Jeremiah
Does Handloader have any info on the 6mm Krag or the 22 Krag in a Krag action?
We do have info on the 22 Short Krag in a Mauser action in issue #71 of Handloader. We also have a great article on Krag pressure in issue #71 of Handloader. I think this would be of a great help to anyone working within the constraints of the Krag action. unfortunately we do not have any info that I am aware of on the 6mm Krag unless this cartridge is known by another name. We do have some info on .257 Krag though.
Handloader TV Thank you for the reply and I’ll try and find issue #71. The 6mm Krag was also known as the 6mm Krag Short.
@@imfromthestreets5856 You're very welcome! I just wish I could have found one on the 6mm Krag. Here is a link to the issue #71 www.wolfeoutdoorsports.com/handloader-71-january-1978/ and I apologize the article on Krag actions pressure is in issue #62 not #71. I apologize for the confusion.
Your last step in the reloading process of the 5.7x28. The Ceimping process Lee has a Collet Ceimp Die is this what you used.
We had no issues with the build in crimp ring built into the Redding dies, since the filming of this video we have purchased a Lee factory crimp die and have had good results with that as well.
@@HandloaderTV appreciate the information would you be able to send a link to the Redding die you use and is there s relaoding video you may have that shows set by step 5.7x28 being reloading
@@yojimbo05 No problem always happy to help! Sure I will post the link below, sadly there is no retailer that I could find that has them in stock however we got ours from Midway USA. We do not have a video showing step by step this is the closest we have but if you follow the die instructions and our tips you should have no issues it's just like reloading .223 Rem. I do suggest checking your sized brass to ensure that you have correct headspace and make sure the firearm will go fully into battery. We did have some issues with random cases but this is also across over 1,000 once fired range pick up brass so that is to be expected. If you have any further questions don't hesitate to ask. I also suggest following us on Instagram It is a great way for us to interact with our followers and we can even send videos or pictures detailing the process.
www.midwayusa.com/product/101244296
@@HandloaderTV appreciate you helping me so much my friend. This is a alternative to getting the 5.7 going again lol
@@HandloaderTV Gotta Make Ammo Great Again lol
The coating has to do with timing of the pressure-curve and the brass expanding in a specific way at a specific moment - (how it moves in the chamber)
(that's the abbreviated explanation as I've come to understand it)
I have heard that and I am sure that it has multiple functions but proving that to the internet is no easy feat. Rather we try to conduct the best testing we can and simply showcase the results and let the viewer decide and come to their own conclusions with a little commentary from me from time to time. Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment! --Jeremiah
Please do more testing
What specifically would you like to see testing wise? We also reviewed both the FN and Ruger pistols chambered in 5.7x28
DO YOU HAVE ANY LOAD DATA FOR 4ACP THAT TAMES THE RECOIL?
I assume you are wanting light loads for 45 ACP? I would suggest checking out our website loaddata. com and looking for cast loads or lightweight jacketed bullets using trail boss powder. I think that is about the lightest loads you can get for .45 ACP. Thanks for watching! --Jeremiah
Hot water. Ivory soap and lemon juice is how I remove laqure before tumbling.
Good to know thank you for sharing your methods here in the comments section. --Jeremiah
The coating is for lubricity.
FN knew that oxidized brass causes problems so they did what was cost effective on a mass scale.
My guess is that the coating is a thinned mcu.
Kbs "diamond clear" is an example.
Polished brass would have the same effect but is costly and time consuming for mass production.
This is opinion on my behalf so take it with a grain (pun intended) of salt.😂
Why is your baffle so high on your powder measure?
Sometimes we like to have a little more weight on our powder. Adjusting your baffle can help with more consistent throws with certain powders.
Also, in case anyone benefits from seeing test results - I've been posting vids for about a year both onto paper and some into gel & chrono.
Not interested at all in self-promotion...I could care less about the channel growing.
Only mention it because there's a serious lack of any sort of testing being done and results shared.
I agree in full and it seem that whenever anyone does post about it there is so much debate, misinformation and lack of understanding in the comments it's surprising. Appreciate you sharing your own experience with the channel and taking the time to watch out video we greatly appreciate it! --Jeremiah
great video, thank you. estimated cost of all equipment needed?
You are very welcome thank you so much for watching we greatly appreciate it!! It is really hard to say these days with the prices of everything going up rapidly I would say currently somewhere around $540.00 if you buy everything separate and of decent quality. This is not counting the cost of components such as powder and what not but once you have all the tools you can reload other cartridges as well for simply the cost of the die sets and shell holders. Thanks again for watching! --Jeremiah
@@HandloaderTV ok thanks man!
@@trevorstuart3950 No Problem! --Jeremiah
I've been reloading the 5.7 x 28 for a while and with the ps90 it jams without the lacquer coating. Ultra light Simple green and water mix cleaning 20 minutes while agitating by hand every 5 minutes for 2 1/2 minutes worked best for me. I think the simple green coats a bit too. The lacquer coating or a coating of some kind is 100% necessary for these rounds to work in a PS90 mag and cycling. Anyone else have different experience?
I honestly want a PS90 for that very reason because that is not the first time I have heard that and looking at the magazine system and how it works I could see the lack coating on the cases becoming an issue when it comes to feeding. I would love to hear some other folks chime in with their personal experience on this! Thank you for taking the time to watch and share your own experience!! --Jeremiah
@@HandloaderTV I checked on my assumption and the engineers figured the brass caused too much friction at even a slow rate of fire. On full auto the original prototype wouldnt get more than 5 or 6 rounds down range before jamming up. So without having to state the obvious haha the rounds needed a bit of dry lube to make it function. They tried a few different armor penetrating calibers as well, which I didn't know.
@@stokedonearth5097 That makes a lot of sense to me, I would love to be able to put that to the test one day! I think that would be very very interesting and it would finally put to rest all the internet myths and lore around this mysterious coating on the cases. Thank you for taking the time to explain all of that and share it here with us in the comments section it is greatly appreciated. --Jeremiah
The lacquer coating doesn't have anything at all to do with feeding or reliability. It is to protect against tarnish and corrosion in storage and add some moderate moisture or waterproof protection. All you guys must either be very young or inexperienced. Surplus 7.62x39mm and 5.45x39mm used in SKSs and AKs have been lacquer coated for decades. This whole thing is a giant myth.
@@JohnDoeEagle1 wow! Hahaha. Okay buddy. WRONG! I bet you don't own a PS90 or reload 5.7x28. when I took off lacquer coating it malfunctioned. I know through practical experience and through a lot of testing. In Canada its really hard to get 5.7x28 and we have to reload it if we want to use it frequently. Every brand that makes the 5.7x28 adds the lacquer coating.
Crimp or no crimp?
I prefer a light roll crimp or a light crimp applied with a Lee factory crimp die. Good question and thanks for watching!
What grain load do you recommend starting out for reloadong thia round.
It entirely depends on the powder you are using and the bullet you are using. We had great results in both the FN and Ruger pistols chambered in 5.7x28 using the 40 grain Hornady V-Max and 5.3 grains of True Blue for an average velocity of 1,744 FPS in the Ruger and 1,694 FPS in the FN. Start at 5.2 grains of True Blue and work your way up in tenth of a grain increments until desired accuracy and velocity is achieved. Max load would be 5.6 grains of True Blue powder with that bullet. Thank you for watching!
@@HandloaderTV than kyou for the information I really appreciate this sk much. The load recommendation would this work for The PS-90 pretty well.
@@yojimbo05 No problem, That is what we are here for, The load should work for the PS-90 as well your velocity will be approx 18% higher with the longer barrel. I also recommend checking for function however I don't anticipate any issues.
@@HandloaderTV would pressure be stable and okay with the starting load.
@@HandloaderTV also what is the best clean method that worked best for you to clean the brass.
Has anyone ever tried cfe BLK? They claim it's good for 17 hornet. I have a few cans of it and never use it after selling my 300 blkout. Would be great if I could use it for this so I can save my #7 for everything else. If not I think I'll try and work something up myself, I don't see any reasons why not unless I'm missing something.
To our best knowledge nobody has ever tried CFE Black in 5.7x28. There are a few issues with using CFE Black, in the 5.7x28 Cartridge, CFE BLK is a very slow burning compared to Accurate #7 and you would not achieve enough pressure to cycle the action. Also there is a great danger to using such a slow burning propellant. The slower burning powders have a longer pressure curve. When the handgun is fired it is possible for the action to open or unlock before pressure has dropped to safe levels and this can cause catastrophic failures and damage your gun and possibly you as well. The slowest burning powder we have tried is Accurate #9 and loads should be worked up with extreme caution. I would strongly advise against even attempting to use CFE BLK in this cartridge.
@@HandloaderTV ah thanks sounds like you saved me some time, I hadn't even looked for it on any charts or anything. lol. I guess this powder really is good for almost nothing that I own, I think I'll give it to someone who can use it. Thanks 👍
@@KurtOnoIR No problem always happy to help CFE BLK is a bit of a niche powder it is suitable in 17 hornet, 17 AI, 350 Legend, 300 blackout and the 300 Ham'r. I am sure I am forgetting a couple of cartridges. It is not a bad powder but it is not a versatile powder. No problem, thank you for your support!
In this video, he has a redding powder dispenser half full of powder and the baffle sitting on top of the powder. I am finding it hard to take anything I see here seriously if you don't even know what the powder baffle is for and how to use it. The baffle goes in first, then you pour the powder on top of it. It keeps an even amount of weight on the powder under the baffle, so the weight of a full tube of powder doesn't compress the powder being measured.
Adjusting your baffle can go a long way to adding in consistent powder drops especially if you are using a powder like True Blue that meters like water. If the powder is below the baffle there is an even amount of weight less the amount of powder you are dispensing which in this case (no pun intended) is not much at all. Some folks don't know because they haven't tried it and I can understand that but until you've tried it one should be more selective in their criticism. I got more accurate throws with the powder below the baffle and keeping it topped off than with the baffle. This is especially helpful if you are working at the end of a 1 pound powder can. At any rate thank you for watching we do appreciate the feedback. We are all about learning ourselves and helping educate others here, it is the passion that drives us and what we do. --Jeremiah
It's time ammo manufactures come up with a SAAMI standard for 5.7x28 after 30 years with increasing adoption of the caliber. Steel cased 5.7x28 anyone?
While there is no SAAMI standard for 5.7x28 there is a CIP standard and that is what most ammunition is loaded to. I am not sure how well steel cased ammunition would function in the certain 5.7x28 platforms simply due to the mysterious coating on the brass cases. It would be very interesting to find out though! Thank you for watching and taking the time to comment! --Jeremiah
No primer strike is a problem with your gun and has nothing to do with the case, loaded ammo or primer. Had they FTE, FTF, FTLSTR, or squib on you THAT is a ammo issue.
generally I would agree with you it would be an ammunition issue but I don't think that was entirely the case here. The loads were run through the same dies, the same powder charge double checked, cases inspected, everything was the as close as possible from load to load the only difference was the cleaning methods. And I really think that was the issue with the ammo. I could be wrong I would like to conduct more testing with different firearms as well. At any rate thank you for watching and taking the time to comment! --Jeremiah
ive been reloading this cartridge for years now (FN PS 90) i use this product after reloading and have never had one failure but i will say one thing it takes a lot cleaning to get the original coating off the original fn brass. just spray down your cases after reloading and your done heres a link. www.motionindustries.com/productDetail.jsp?sku=03511879
Very very interesting, Thank you for sharing your experiences. We just ordered two of those cans for further experimentation. We also ordered an FN Five-Seven for testing. Perhaps an FN PS 90 is in order for future testing. I have always thought this would be very interesting in a small bolt action as well. Thank you for watching!
What gun(s) did you use? I am curious as to see what the P(s)90 does with these handloads.
@@perrytilton5221 I only have one gun an FN ps90 i got it on a great deal for 1000 bucks along time ago brand new couldnt pass it up at the time. :)
Hi Craig i am a technical weapons expert i used to work in the firearms industry i have talked to FN and they are the ones that turned me onto this product it's supposed to be the same thing they put on the shells from the factory when there produced except their is no dry time they must put some type of like 2 part epoxy on the ones from the factory I'm no chemical engineer by any means hence the hard time removing the original coating. I'm not really sure what the shelf life of this stuff is i usually reload my shells and at the end i have a cookie sheet thrown them on their with a few red shop towels and spray down the shells rolling them back and forth any more info just ask oh 40gr bullet 5.0gr power pistol in my ps90
Hey Jason do you end up getting the Teflon on the bullets in this process?
Anyone here ever build a short range varmint/pest control bolt rifle chambered for the 57?
Not yet but we are in the planning stages of doing so... I think it would be a really really cool rifle especially if it had a relatively short barrel with a small lightweight action. It sounds like a great truck gun for varmints at reasonable ranges. There are a lot of questions I have about how the chambers are cut and dimensions of the chamber etc. Hopefully one day we will get to do a video on it in the future.
@@HandloaderTV I like that idea. One built on a mini Mauser would be neat. I think there's potential in the cartridge a bolt gun would bring out for a fun, cheap to shoot package.
@@stevepuyear2738 If we can get our hands on a mini Mauser I think that would make an awesome action! There is a lot of potential in this cartridge, it is very efficient and so long as you make the investment in brass it is very cheap to shoot when handloading. I think it has a lot more potential in a bolt gun using slower burning powders I think the cartridge performance would vastly improve.
Sand blast, and then teflon bath and bake
We have heard of others using a Dupont dry lubricant on the cases once the proprietary coating has worn off but have not heard of the teflon bath and baking method. It sounds very interesting.
Yeah teflon is difficult to find, and I mean the aeresol, but it's amazing how it can almost completely convert a surface's composition. You need to bring the temperature up to get the spray's impurities off and to soften the metal to accept it.
@@francoisriche2167 Yeah I can imagine, I have some Dupont dry lubricant aerosol but I have yet to use it on the 5.7 cases I have just been running them in a dry tumbler with good results so far. I'll have to keep my eyes peeled for the Teflon stuff as well.
Yep definitely wo t be using this advice to reload
May I ask why? The tests conducted were to show the results of various cleaning methods and put some of the internet debate to rest.
We also have full load development videos on both the Ruger 57 and the FN Five SeveN and the results we got were quite good. I will link to them below should you wish to check them out.
ua-cam.com/video/m5hBFvSOQeE/v-deo.html Ruger 57
ua-cam.com/video/vOaqToNOEwk/v-deo.html FN Five SeveN
Friction, like gravity is not your friend.
You did not go into specifics on anything let alone the case coating issue.
We covered specific cleaning methods and how they can effect function in the firearm and the coating as well. As mentioned in the video we believe the coating is proprietary and there is little reliable info available at this time. We covered die set up and trimming, weighing powder and seating bullets. What specifics are you looking for?
Yes he did it was covered right towards the beginning and the middle of the video lol
It doesn’t appear that you are utilizing the crimp functionality of the die
Hmmmm interesting
Indeed, I would like to update this at some point and try testing the cleaning methods in other firearms as well. Thanks for watching! --Jeremiah