Top 4 Golf Mysteries FINALLY SOLVED!
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- Опубліковано 9 вер 2024
- Does Tee Height Matter, Do Illegal Grooves Make a Difference, Where on the Club Face is the Best Place to Miss, and Should You Use a 3 Wood or Driver?
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Yea, but how will the robot do after 6 beers and 2 hotdogs at the turn ? We need to take all variables into account.
Excellent point.
😂🕺🍻⛳️
So funny, true! We in South Africa are already 6 brandy&coke turning half way house! And yet You have to play under 80, as a scratch golfer😂
That robots gonna short circuit by the 2nd beer
You're on to something there. In reality the robot testing is benign with certain things like shaft weight and heel/toe weighting. The human will react to these things and the robot won't. It also swings on the same plane all the time. If you have a in to out swing and hit driver slightly out towards the toe it will go a mile. The robot performs well hitting directly out of the middle of the face because the plane is completely perfectly on one axis of rotation.
First UA-cam golfer I can remember to have a robot on the channel. Make this guy a regular
Which guy - the robot?
You can listen to him every week on the podcast Fully Equipped, which is a podcast about golf equipment.
Didn't Paul Wilson use "Iron Byron" on some of his videos? Maybe not. I may be misremembering.
I always found someone just hitting balls as kind of a pretty unscientific way of testing equipment due to biases and other variables, even if they felt they were being totally fair. Maybe can get something with a meta analysis of all the reviews but meh.
This machine would be so cool to see the history of golf innovation. Testing from all the way from real woods to current day drivers.
Now that is some really useful information for a lot of people! Well done gentlemen!
Like the results in your video, my understanding was square grooves were "banned" because they retain spin better in the rough. The ban was more about negating the benefits of the bomb and gauge trend from long hitters more than anything else.
@MrShortGame -- you missed a couple key variables in Driver vs 3-wood. #1 - for all those short hitters, they should be hitting a 15° driver. It transformed my wife's game. Now when she miss-hits it, she has enough backspin to get a decent shot. The 3-wood has almost no forgiveness compared to a high-launch driver for short hitters.
This same Driver 3 wood analysis would be interesting with Driver - Mini Driver to see when the trade off happens. At 90 MPH the driver starts to take the lead but what would that number be for a Mini driver? Very cool video Matt!
I hit Mini Driver at 107mph on average with gets me 270 to 280 total. My driver goes the same or less.
I’m glad I read your comment I swing in excess of 115 mph so I’m not even gonna watch the video haha
I have a really fast swing speed but just cannot keep driver straight. My average distance for driver is about 270yds but very rarely on the fairway. Average distance with 3wood is 250yds and very consistently straight. So guess which one I leave at home, driver.
I think it was Ian Fraser from TXG who did some tests and unequivocally determined a shorter or choked-up driver is a much smarter choice. Not to mention one has a huge choice of drivers and only a couple of mini-drivers. Or, as the video says, tee it up low and hit slightly down on it. Very accurate and on hard fairways you don't even lose that much distance
I think one thing we need to revisit is the final test with the Driver vs 3wood. If you swing your Driver 80mph you probably only swing your 3wood 75mph. You typically won't swing those two clubs the exact same speed.
Agreed. You’d ideally test them at the same length to determine how much distance is determined by loft. Maybe they were able to adjust for that to equalize club head speed but it wasn’t clear to me. But that wouldn’t necessarily matter to the individual player - you can only swing your hands so fast. Seems a good compromise for slower swing speed golfers is a high lofted driver.
💯
Not really true. A ton of people swing driver slower than 3 wood. Modern driver is a counter intuitive golf club. Ask me how I know. I I’ve seen 120 with driver. But I’ll the to “ steer “ it around 110. I can hit 112-115 with 3 wood almost 100 % of the time
@@puttervids472I agree!
Yes, and it goes beyond that, too. Unlike the robot, we don't hit the sweetspot every time. The driver has a bigger sweetspot. If ppl are hitting 3w easier and farther than driver, it's almost certainly because their driver is not set up correctly for them. (It can also be mental, of course) They probably just need their driver set up shorter/higher loft. I'm a little surprised these guys wouldn't consider these other variables before jumping to, "take driver out of the bag." The advantage of 3w should just be hitting off the ground.
What was the loft of the driver? I suspect that if players with slower swing speeds moved to a higher-lofted driver (12 or more) the 3 wood advantage would disappear. Gene points to the shorter length of the 3 wood, but there is no rule that you can't use a driver with a shorter shaft.
Another option for slower swing speeds would be a high lofted driver, like 12 to 15°.
Awesome video, great insides!
Question--3wd vs driver. Drivers are traditionally longer so when you swing speed of 60 with the 3 wd the driver would swing on average 2-5 mph faster. The distances are probably closer when actual speed with the longer vs shorter shaft.
I LOVE this content. #5 in particular confirms what I’ve felt for a long time. 3w is almost always a smarter play for me.
Great job!
Would love to see the results on different golf balls for lower swing speed golfers. I'm 63 and don't get much and I use whatever ball I find in the woods looking for mine. Does it really make a difference. Love this video, thanks to both you and Gene Parente from Golf Laboratories.
mr sg, one thing to mention is if your swinging 70 mph w/ your 3 wood then your swinging probably amlmost 80 w/ your driver. the two clubs dont swing at the same speed, mine are about 8 mph apart. 105 vs about 93 on my skytrak.
That driver vs 3 wood data was shocking! Fantastic video all around. If we could delve deeper into that with different length/type shafts and maybe factor in a mini driver too someday that would be awesome. Maybe a lot of us don’t have to fall for the manufacturers’ driver marketing gimmicks anymore lol 😅
I love this!!!!! The amount of info out of a 20 min vid is incredible I’d love a whole series of this esp for new drivers rolling out next year more unbiased data the better awesome video man!
Excellent video. Confirmed 2 things for me. Tee height and eliminating my 3 wood. I carry a driver, 5W and 7W. Now - if I could only find that elusive magic putter.
Bettinardi Hogan
Your magic putter is between your ears.
By eliminating your 3W, what are you hitting from the fairway when you’re 250-300 out?
@@losova7543I have not had that issue from the Senior tees and courses I play.
@@losova75433i
I was always told that a hit toward the toe with the driver will tend to draw back, due to the gear effect, while a heel hit tended to slice. Your expert said just the opposite. Which is true? My toe hits with the driver do seem to draw a bit rather than slice.
Excellent demo Mr. Shortgame! Very informative.
What a good test! Accurate, informative information. The best test I've ever seen on UA-cam. Thanks to Mr. Short Game and Gene for such a quality video.
OMG Gene! I think I'll keep on watching you of the Fully Equipped audio podcast!
Great info, especially the driver vs 3 wood. Working backwards from your distances I probably swing just over 80 mph. Unfortunately my accuracy with 3 woods has been worse than with any of my drivers so I'll stick with driver until I can find a 3 wood that works for me. (I can't afford new clubs so I end up playing second/thrift store hand roulette.)
Try Cobra F8 or F9 am your age and they are only ones works for me. But somehow they like a set up middle to slighly behind centre. ??
No one swings their 3 wood as fast as their driver. The test is pretty misleading when it comes to the conclusions they're putting forward.
Ive found that i have to close my driver face a bit more than my 3&5 wood. Not sure if opening or closing the face in your swing could help🤷♂️
@@Shmeeps_phd There's no way to tell that for certain without seeing the actual data from the Quad. I assumed that they were moving the robot arm at the same speed for both clubs. They just calibrate it for the desired driver head speed and then change between the clubs. That would result in a slower clubhead speed for the 3W. Even at the slower speed, the 3W still might give you greater distance because of differences in the geometry of the clubhead.
@@hjlamb That's not how the data was presented. And they're using another device to measure club speed so it's kind of implied that they're swinging with the same club head speed. If they weren't, I see no reason to present the data the way they did since they'd have the relative club head speed data available.
Perfect. Would you please consider a video with this robot being used to test today's drivers with the older (say 2016 and older drivers?) With the limits on COR I can't imagine the new drivers today hitting it further. I'm sure many would say the new drivers have better ball control but with this robot that can be answered also.
This has got to be the best golf video on the Internet. It's about as fact based as you can get. Sure there are a lot more variables but this video gives us the basic data. and is clear about the real world implications. For example, now I know why I hit my 3 wood farther than my driver. Give us more like this!
This is one of the best instructional golf videos I’ve see. I’m 78 and I often feel I hit my three wood off the ground further than my driver off the tee. Now I believe it. The driver is coming out of the bag so I force myself to hit the three wood. Thanks for this information.
another way to go would be a driver you can loft up to 12 degrees, the big difference between the driver and 3 wood is the launch angle
With the driver vs 3 wood comparison. It'd be good to know the loft on both clubs. I can imagine a 12° driver would perform better than an 8° driver at the lower swing speeds etc.
What was the loft of the Driver? If you use a driver with a loft of 14 15 or 16 degrees, you get more distance. Maybe you are just considering a driver with these lofts a very large headed 3 wood? A comparison with a 5 wood would have been interesting as well.
I have let men and women young and old try my 42 inch driver on the range. 12deg and Jumbo Max grip.
They all love it.
I even gave my 7 iron with a jumbo max grip to a beginner young teenage girl.
It instantly shortened her long floppy swing
The distance charts will definitely come in handy when out golfing with friends who ask for recommendations now I can take their swing speed into account, I love that feeling of helping someone find the best club and they just let it rip look back and ask if I seen that
That was a great video! I wish they would have added the difference in distance between a Mini Driver and regular Driver for the different swing speeds.
Great video Matt, you're breaking ground 🔥🔥🔥
Great video! You have answered all questions I've had about the driver and 3 wood. Keep up the good work!!
Many thanks to Gene and Matt. This is info that confirms my experience. The analysis from Gene is priceless. I tee low to hit and choke down 1” on my driver instead of hitting my 3 wood. Dead straight, 3 wood distance and no swing change. Not get that robot to deal with a 17 year old brain that says, if you hit it slightly harder this 5 wood will make the green! Sometimes I wish I had both a 3 and a 5.
Thank you for explaning why I hit better with my 3W, this video is very informative, thanks.
Great info on the tee height and the 3 wood distances vs driver!
That was always the problem with the square grooves, they still spun out of the rough. Great comparison!
It would seem that v-grooves are better built for friction if there is no intervening moisture or moist material such as rough coming between the ball and the face. However, I can see a scenario where the u-grooves will "swallow" some of the moisture and/or excess material and allow better contact (even if slightly indirect) with the groove adges, producing more friction overall so this makes sense to me. Cheers.
Would be interesting to know the loft at the slower speeds as well. 12deg driver vs 15deg 3wood. I'm guessing they tested a 9 or 10.5 deg driver.
One of the greatest, most useful videos ever! Especially using 90 mph driver swing speed. Please do a similar one for irons shoeing face contact and "modern" lofted vs traditional lofted 7 irons. Thank you!
I would of liked to see off center shot comparison with 3 wood compare to driver and lofts with just carry distance not with roll
great video! The consistency of the non-conforming wedge grooves was very interesting.
Very informative, but I end up with even more questions about shaft length, shaft flex, ball compression, ball covering.
Great video. I was your caddy in the Midwest open in French lick. Thank you for being such a solid dude.
Thanks
Just a caveat on the 3 wood vs driver. It is really a conversation about loft vs speed. If you swing slower you need more loft to create spin to keep the ball in the air. You would be better off getting a shorter driver with higher loft if you are struggling with it at lower speeds. 3 wood is a smaller head so the "more accurate" thing is a misnomer. There is a bigger sweet spot on a driver but if you do not have enough speed to create spin, the ball will almost never fly straight unless the strke is perfect. More loft = more spin = more consistency + shorter length = more accuracy which can be acheived with a driver head as well.
I have found all of the above to be true for me.
Also, Tom Wishon has been advocating for shorter shafts and higher lofts on Drivers for at least the last 10 or 12 years.
Great video with some good data to back the test claims! Be interesting to also understand in the Driver vs. 3 Wood comparative, 1) were the clubs the same generation and manufacturer? 2) were shafts on both clubs the same specs? 3) what was the turf condition to consider total distance vs. carry? Carry would have been more realistic.
good information! can we get some big googly eyes or thing a WiperTag on that robot?
I did not know this. And is actually very interesting! It explains a lot when I see friends play
The greatest amount of spin will be generated with a club face with no grooves. No grooves means more contact area and therefore more friction, analogous to using slicks (no tread) on racing tires. The main purpose of the grooves is to channel away water. The grooves likely also help with grass between the ball and the club face (?).
Great information. Gene is a great resource. Would love to see more content with you both👍
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Great info, gonna tee it up higher next round for sure!
For the driver vs, 3W test, were you hitting off tees of the same height, and in the same ball position, or do you move the 3aW back in the stance a bit and tee it a little lower?
Good tests but no mention of the lofts on the 3 wood and driver. Assume they weren't the same.
That’s probably the whole point. Those slower swing speeds don’t have the force to really get the ball in the air with the less lofted driver
This was really helpful information. I would have liked to have seen 95 with the driver since that's the average swing speed; not sure why they didn't go there.
I re-grooved a Cleveland Be-Cu PW with a dremill multi tool to make the grooves 2mm wide and 2mm deep , (approx) . In bounce games for a laugh i would , from the rough , downwind and down hill , spin the ball to a stop or back it up from a tight fairway lie around 30feet on the greens . Great trick for an amateur (3hc) and nobody ever guessed the "trick" grooves.
Great video really solid information took my three out of bag two years ago and haven’t miss it once swing speed of 95 mph. Just straight up great helpful content, thank you
I'm 65. Slower swing speed. Always had one. Very informative. Thanks
I use a PRGR monitor, and it gave my Ping G2 strikes a smash of 1.3, but the MP14 blades smash of 1.4.
The three wood stats were stunning to me. Good info!
I always hit my 3w straighter off the tee which had me keeping the driver in the bag until I finally started to really work on my driver and straightened it out I am in that 85 mph swing and starting to increase speed as I have improved my swing and gotten my lower body into my swing
Great video. Another interesting test would be driver shaft length - with shorter shaft there is a higher chance of a centre strike.
Outstanding stuff here...thank you Mr Short Game! One question, why did you stop at 90 mph swing speed? Would love to see the date for 100 & 110 mph swing speeds. Thanks again, really enjoyed this segment!
Love that the driver swing speed was 90. That fits my game.
Excellent presentation, I really appreciate the scientific approach to equipment testing.
Another great, practical golf video from Mr Shortgame. thanks Matt.
Now that was some valuable insight!!! Thank you!!
Perfect! I've always wanted to see what the distances would be from a robot swing based on swing speed
I just subscribed because of the Rick Shields mention. Had a laugh. I like it. Earned my subscription.
This was so useful. I learned a lot.
I like 3 wood when I'm fighting blocks with driver; I can turn the 3 wood over much more easily. My driver swing speed is 105-110.
I’m curious about the groves on wedges, water on it makes sense, but what type of ball did you use? Urethane vs. ionomer or compression. That would be interesting
What a great drop!!! Some much info packed in there👊👊 What a pleasure to have Gene on there🙌🙌
worthwhile for me. I use impact tape to monitor where I connect with driver.
Fantastic video, thank you so much. I have one question. When you tested driver against 3 wood were both clubs swung at the same speed? The reason I ask is I have a driver with a 46" length and I can swing it 90 mph, but I can't swing my 3 wood that fast because of the shorter shaft.
Cool info! I would like to have seen a test of a driver head installed on a 3-wood shaft. I've done this myself on the course and it seems like a wonderful combo for me. I'm a bit older (57) and have lost a little speed over the years, so any little bit of help I can get is welcome.
Awesome video 🔥
Interesting stuff. Love the data. Now I want to see a comparison of 3-wood to 5-wood, including at higher swing speeds.
Great vid. For slower swing speeds, a driver with 13 degrees of loft should have been used. I find a drivers larger face makes it far easier to hit than a smaller faced 3w
Question regarding face impact location / the upper 30%, does that also apply to the 3 wood, or only the 5?
EXCELLENT VIDEO. Thanks.
Wow, just a ton of great info from a very knowledgeable man and robot.
Great video, interesting to see the robot hitting irons off the turf
Really good idea for a test. Did not know this.
Need to have tracer on
Hey there. If you ever get to Arizona again, you should go to Francisco Grande golf course in Casa Grande, Arizona. It plays to a little over 7500 yards from tips. The driving range is dirt, because well, it’s desert. It’s a nice course and fairly challenging.
I thought the tee height was going to be more about attack angle then where on the club face, i think its a missed opportunity to use the robot to test attack angle in regards to tee height and hit the center of the face. Tee height doesn't necessarily translate to where on the face you hit it. Where the ball is positioned and your swing path determine more of where the face impacts the ball.
Good video. As others have stated, the driver is going to be 2-3 inches longer than a 3w and have less loft. At slower speeds loft is your friend getting the ball into the air. Also faster you swing, the longer club will always go further because it can generate more club head speed. Lets be honest, how many amateur golfers are actually centering their 3w on a consistent basis?
Good shit Matt. Keep up content like this and you’ll zoom to a million in no time.
Like to have seen short vs standard length driver,or mini vs reg driver at a couple of different speeds.Wedge results were surprising.
Gene was very cool , and he gave some great information.
Great video as always! Why not test 3-4 similar golfballs from Titleist, Callaway, Srixon and an ousider like Vice in a battle (90mph, 100mph and 100+)
Man what a cool video I never would have thought those old wedges actually would do better with water amazing, in all the information on hit points on a driver so cool
It would be interesting to test more strike points on the face of the driver up to something as extreme as hitting that little part with milling right ned to the hosel. I know it's happened to me before lol
The driver vs 3-wood result is not that surprising. We already see most lady's and some junior's sets with drivers lofted at 14° and then just skip the 3 wood in favor of higher lofted woods.
Awesome presentation❤
Can you do something similar for swing speeds from 95-120. I’m trying to get up to that 120 point and wondering what I should be hitting at my current speeds. Also maybe robot test with balls only to see soft vs like higher end Pro V or Bridgestone or Vice pro. Stuff like that I’m wondering at what speed is it better to not play a softer ball.
Over half your shots will be putts or chips so choose the ball with predictable and repeatable outcomes. Don't play the ball that checks up hard simetimes and releases sometimes.
@@Handletaken4 yeah I was just thinking for different scenarios. Like par 3’s to play differently than a par 5. Hence why I asked for that difference in the swing speeds. I’m currently over the speed they did the testing with so I’m curious about the speeds on which I hit at.
One of your best. Thank you. Curious were you using range balls? Not a big deal, but maybe the 3-4 piece balls would go farther.
Great video really. Just wish we could have seen all the robot shots and where they finished on video. I would have also like to have seen what the robot could do at max settings with a driver, I mean who wouldn’t want that.
Nice work. Thanks. ❤
If you are swinging driver 90mph you are likely swinging 3 wood 80-83. The differential with 90mph driver swing speed is more like 30 yards.
Did not think about that. 90 mph swing with a 3 wood is pretty good for a lot of people lol.
Tee height doesn't necessarily dictate the impact position on the face. My stepdad is in his 60s and tees it low, but he still hits it center of the face almost every time because of his slightly downward AOA
Great segment. Excellent topics.
Love the content! Now I would just like to have you do these same tests based on shaft length and swing speed
probably the best golf vid you'll ever watch.