Raid is a shady company, they have lied several times and even said that “they don’t pay anyone to sponsor us, they just do it on their own accord” or something on Twitter. There are UA-cam videos going into detail on how shady the company is. I recommend Karl smallwoods video on it.
Yeah. I think it's safe to say that I'm not the same writer I was around 10 years ago that I am now. I mean I was 18. No 18-year-old is expected to be a perfect writer who knows everything about the world (heck I was even homophobic before I came out myself). Thank you for offering your honest opinion. Maybe when I'm in a better emotional mindset, I'll watch the whole thing one day.
@DisneyFanatic2364 I watch alot of audio drama from the MLP fandom and I think your work is still great compareded to most work out today. I give super credit too all the effort that was put into this. So I do disagree with most of what was said and think that it was a master piece for it's time ( Of course... Apple X Spike is still kinda weird but we can just leave that as it is 😂😂 I love your work and this fanfic helped me when I had a real bad depression episode years ago So i hold it dear to my heart. I rewatched it recently and still think of it as great
Sure, the more inocente and childdish atmoshpere maybe didnt age well with the viewers because we are older now and more mature But still, of most audiodramas the fact that this has actual scenes made for it is just fantastic and I have not seen another audio drama like it
Maybe you should start by NOT writing grooming out to be cute, ESPECIALLY when majority of your viewers are underaged? Seriously man that's fuckin creepy.
I'm hoping that one day the story gets an HD remaster And by that I mean that the story feels more solid and fluid and no creepy woman wanting child thing Don't get me wrong I like the ship but no
@@RisingCrossroadsStudios I do agree about a remaster but change the whole ship between applejack and spike. Maybe possibly applejack and flim or flam (a enemies to lovers kinda deal)
I’m surprised you didn’t even mention daughter of discord tbh, I remember being OBSESSED with this fic when I was a kid and yikes did I not notice how creepy it was sometimes!
@@mysticmaya3710 it was a sequel audio drama to bride of discord. In that one fluttershy has a baby with discord. And the baby ends up being Screwball (the one pony in the first discord episode) it’s pretty standard “weird child gets made fun of for being weird”. But I’m pretty sure spike and AJ get married? Idk they don’t really talk about it that much in the audio drama. It was actually better quality production wise, but yeah it was a bit weird.
The way she described Discord's backstory in this made me think of Megamind. Weird kid is last of his species and tries to fit in using his talents. Messes it up and ends up looking like the bad guy. Decides to be the bad guy he's accused of being, while having fun with it.
As a little kid it didn’t bother me as much, because I viewed it as less toxic compared to Rarity x Spike for whatever reason. But now that I’m older and understand how age difference works….yeah no it’s really really weird 😬
Ironically, I feel like Keep Calm and Flutter on was unironically a better Fluttercord story, and this is coming from a multishipper with a love for Flairity (Rarity x Fluttershy). Fluttershy calls Discord out when he's being an asshole and Discord actually has to reflect on his actions and be a better person. It's believable that they start becoming better friends and their development in future episodes could realistically lead to them becoming a couple. Fluttershy is a character that tries to see the best in everyone and it makes sense that it's in her nature to give even the worst people a second chance and that she would see his legitimate efforts to be better and appreciate them. But she also sets limits and makes it clear to Discord she won't put up with him abusing their friendship to do whatever he wants and he needs to be a good friend too.
I actually wouldn’t call Cadence’s baby a prediction. You’d have to be an old fan to remember this, but back in the day right after the two got married and the crystal empire was shown, there was already a very famous fan OC (which even got its own toy) named Princess Skyla. It was basically a Sweetie Belle recolor, but when flurry heart was shown I remember there being backlash that she wasn’t Skyla.
That's what Skyla was? I remember everyone was really scratching their heads over the seemingly random two alicorns they suddenly added to the toy line but I didn't think we ever figured it out. That does make sense though, was it a Make a Wish kid or something?
@@Solaceon I honestly can’t find anything online about it other than fanfics and fanart as well as confirmation it was a fan made character. I know the show has done make a wish requests (a disabled character in the background of ‘Trade-Ya’), but I doubt Skyla’s toy is the result. There’s really nothing solid on why the hell she has a toy.
dude, it's also crazy because there was a filly plush that was supposed to be twilight sparkle x PRINCE BLUEBLOOD 😭 of all the ponies they could've chose twi to have a baby with they chose the dickiest guy in the show 😭
@@ReitanaViscera that was actually just a photoshop edit of the skyla toy, also i don't think skyla was originally an oc, hasbro had a habit back then of creating really weird toy exclusive characters for mlp
Late to the party, but as a VOA/actress myself, Rarity has what's called a Mid-Atlantic or Transatlantic accent. It was really popular in Hollywood in the 20th century, as well as the 'upper class'. It's not EXACTLY British, but it was as close as the US ever got to a 'posh' accent. Small detail, doesn't really matter, but there you go. :)
I love how respectful this is. You can be critical without hating on the creators behind it (especially since most of them were young and inexperienced), and I like that you give credit to the creative effort behind it.
Ikr? If I wanna criticizing somethin', I'll separate the work from the creator. I wouldn't hate the creator cuz they're a person and people can change and mature later or for a long while, even though the craps they've done. While the work, it's not a person and it doesn't change or mature by itself, how much hate it get and show how this is bad that it must change, have a remake of that work or just simply make a new story above of it.
@Cannoli Slug So you're saying that a bad piece of media should get a second much better version?, i don't it's neccesary i think you should do an original idea and make it better than your previous work.
I kinda feel like the show shares some blame for legitimising Spike as a possible romantic interest for the adult ponies. They play it off as a will they won’t they dynamic, and while us adults understand it’ll never happen because of the age difference the show never really explains to children who don’t understand that why this kind of relationship is wrong. I understand children crushing on older people is a normal thing that happens and it’s not inherently wrong to depict that, but when your audience is mostly children I think you have a responsibility to explain why these kinds of relationships shouldn’t be pursued. Many young people don’t fully understand why they’re wrong so depicting them completely neutrally leaves some kids just thinking this is a normal romantic pairing. It’s no surprise that some young impressionable fans wrote fanfics thinking this was normal.
this! i was waiting for the day spike and rarity would finally get together, but then it was when i was around 17 i realized how weird the relationship was! and like, it's hardly neutral in the show, there's literally an episode in a later season where spike gets a gf and rarity gets jealous and tries to break them up... like, rarity's one of my favorite characters, but ew wtf
@@CrazyGreenFluff yes I had the same experience! I thought it was fine until I grew up, it really leaves a sour taste in my mouth. Rarity is otherwise one of my favourite characters but some of her episodes with spike make me sick with how she just lets it happen, absolutely horrible behaviour to normalise to children.
The song that Discord sings to Fluttershy is a parody of "Music of the Night" from The Phantom of the Opera, genuinely gave me whiplash when I first heard it and I couldn't stop laughing throughout the entire thing. Also yeah, the original song's lyrics is around just as creepy as it is in BOD
Yeah, I don't want to dis DF, but for their music parodies I think they missed the context behind some of the songs they picked to use. In this case, Music of the Night is sung by a creepy stalker who's trying to manipulate and lure a young girl away so that she'll be with him. In this case, the phantom is supposed to be bad and we're rooting for Christine to escape from him, not fall in love with him. Also, Hellfire is equally creepy involving an old man lusting over a girl and threatening to end her if she rejects him. Just saying, for a romance audio drama, you probably don't want your male lead singing two villain songs related to manipulation and control of the heroine.
The whole point of Phantom is to call out these creepy incell stories. No you can’t get the girl my tricking and kidnapping her, she’s her own person and she will decide. So using a Phantom song in your BatB AU is kinda missing the world point of both stories
@@PaintSplashProductions ngl didn't even realize that reading the book. I haven't seen the play adaptations but have heard the soundtrack (fire btw). So in my opinion book phantom is waaaay worse than play phantom.
Okay same on the whiplash I watched it with my twin, and I had to explain to him why I was laughing during the song since while he watched Phantom once (25th Anniversary Royal Albert Hall) he hadn't seen it in 7 years while I being obsessed with theater listen to it pretty often and instantly recognized it XD
It always strikes me as missing the point entirely when PhanGirls don't get why the Phantom NOT getting Christine is justified and the right outcome. He gaslights and grooms Christine, kills and threatens people, and intended to force her to be his by killing a guy she loved.
As someone who has been in 2 abusive relationships, the author is definitely romanticizing it. Not intentionally but the fact that discord still got his way in the end, and fluttershy and discord being portrayed as happy is basically saying “if you’re mean and toxic enough and take advantage of someone’s kindness and thats unable to say “no” most of the time, you’ll get your way eventually!” I know the author didnt intentionally do this but Bride of Discord is romanticizing abusive and toxic relationships Again, no hate to DF, they didnt know any better, but dont say it wasn’t romanticizing it, cause this story did
Damn, now that I'm rethinking about it as I'm older it really was... I feel maybe some people liked it because it helped them maybe cope with past relationships of their own? horrible coping mechanism I know but it could be why a lot of people looked past that abuse.
True. Discord acts like a complete monster all throughout the story and he never really redeems himself. He doesn’t make up for his actions and he doesn’t really give a good apology. The ending kinda feels rushed tbh. And Discord is just as possessive towards their daughter in the sequel series too.
Just to be clear, you were correct about the first voice actor for Discord leaving because he didn’t like the relationship between the main characters. Way back when, I actually kept up with this and he made a video explaining it. He’s probably long since deleted it, just thought you should know you were accurate about this detail!
Funnily enough the sequel “daughter of discord” was better production and story wise. Still cliche, but still kinda weird at times (I’m pretty sure AJ and Spike get married??? Don’t quote me on that but it’s always kinda weirded me out, even as a kid..) but yeah BOD and DOD were weird. I am halfway through the video while typing this. But it’s great so far! Love deep dives like this! Edit: I finished, It was great!
I’ve seen DOD like, multiple times and yeah Applejack and Spike are married with 3 kids, two adopted and one genetic kid. That’s right, half dragon half pony child. I think his name was applespike
They do in the comics. I even got my own fluttercord baby who has a sabertooth head, noodle body, dragon arms, deer legs, moth wings, and an alligator tail.
As one of the artist My new da name is DannysArtDen I came in the Relapse episode and more specifically I did the art behind the really toxic scene in fluttershys bedroom where discord hypnotizes her. I meant for it to be as uncomfortable as possible as i was going through a relationship like that so i pulled from my own experiences. This was a labor of love for a lot of us artist and va's. Artist pulled long night working on their pieces. Hell PandemoniumisChaos now known as TheArtsyEmporium is my twin sibling we were both pulling long night working on this as well as our college work in our dorm room. While working on this as well as it sequal series we were proud of the work we were doing. As for the VA for discord was DF cousin and he found the dynamic icky thats why he left he was also getting really burnt out on voice acting at the time. He's a really sweet guy tho. The willstinator is also a really nice guy as well. Please cover Daughter of Discord the last episode we got contacted by the Make-a-Wish foundation to add a little girl into the shows finally. The acting and art are all really good. Sadly the VA for Fluttershy did leave during the show. Daughter of discord pulls from Lion kIng 2 and Romeo and Juilet. I think we actually had some Orginal song in that series too. See all the comments of like "Ah yes i saw this as a child" made me go oof im old.
Maybe instead of Applejack and Spike getting together, maybe they could’ve had Apple Bloom develop a crush on Spike and just have Applejack be a supportive older sister and help Apple Bloom through her feelings throughout the story. She can still give her speech to the rest of the main 6 about true love later on in the story since you don’t need to have a crush to know how love works. Not a fanfiction prompt, just a suggestion for the taboo age gap issue 😬
But the author clearly prefers AppleJack x Spike ship. Dunno why though, it feels so random - especially the way she writes it with the whole drama thingy, Applejack crying because of her unrequited love for this prepubescent dragon boy, blushing like crazy and stuff.
@@smart.but.stupid I think her shipping fuel came from "Spike at Your Service" considering how often clips are used from there. (I think that episode was also mentioned in Bride of Discord as the point Applejack fell for Spike. *gags* I hated typing that sentence.)
Ok, I actually really love that you kept the baby on screen so we didn't forget about her. My memory recall can be pretty shoddy at times, and I often DO forget "let's put a pin in that" details in longer video essays
gonna be honest, ive always liked fluttershy and discord as friends with a familial type of relationship, which would always turn me off from the romantic ship. but even if that wasnt the case, the red flags you pointed out in this story are way too glaring and loud to ever allow me to enjoy it. i think you were spot on to call out every bit you did. as a psych grad with experience from my internships, these are all signs of unhealthy relationships that can be found in real life examples as well, and considering the author allegedly was basing this around what was around them at the time that is... very concerning. but from the sound of it they have learned its not okay, so im glad theyre getting better and wish them the best. loved your analysis, youre one of my fav mlp youtubers ✨
@@ToriCake95 if you Seriously think that ships from a cartoon Thats already ended are gonna keep me up at night by being "canon" or not then I think youre projecting a bit ngl. Anyway... my cat says hi shes kneading next to me and she wishes you a nice day
@Checuke isolation, forcing fluttershy to not see her friends, kidnapping the princess and twilight’s unborn niece as a form of blackmail to convince a mare to step forward to be Discord’s bride, trying to get her to say that she loves him, developing feeling for her captor by pointing out his flaws but slapping on some goodness to make it seem like the bad isn’t that bad by comparison, he still kept her isolated even when she agreed to the marriage but it was like a willingly kidnapping so to speak but those are some red flags also the entirety of spike and applejacks relationship
Ikr I was reminiscing about it earlier and realized some too and even still Ik it’s a parody of Beauty and the Beast (which shares similar themes) *This is like a modern red flag ppl bring up but..* Comparing an ex to your current partner: Discord mentioning he likes Fluttershy’s pink mane and then mentioning Celestia also had a pink mane and how he was a bit sad she changed it (changed bc of the elements) and Celestia being implied to be an old flame of Discord? 😅 it’s not like major but nowadays people will complain
@@Kitty294_ That could have been one of my ad libs because I was a Dislestia fan at the time. I tended to add some jokes of Celestia and/or Chrysalis being a thing in my ad lib and bloopers. Cool though how you analyzed that XD.
The sad thing is, in the original fairy tale it IS Beauty who is the one who has to change. Disney did their best to make the story not as problematic where the beast is a selfish prick who gets cursed and learns a lesson. Beauty gets sold to a wealthy man so her father can pay off his debts, and basically she has to learn to see the good inside the man who bought her. It’s not Stockholm syndrome, it’s just…hey this is your life as a beautiful woman who is property, might as well learn to love it right?
I love the fact that Dragons aging differently was somehow supposed to be an excuse for Spike and AJ to be a thing. Yeah sure, Dragons do age differently. It seems like they take *longer* to age to maturity than ponies. bruh. He's *literally* a *baby dragon*. I'm completely down for making the excuse in fiction that a fantasy race matures faster than humans, if thats how that works for them, then fine. But that is definitely *not* how that works here.
Spike says in Chapter 6, that he is "Practically a teenager." in pony years. But that would mean Spike would be, at the youngest, 13 YEARS OLD in pony years! That would make Applejack, 20 YEARS OLD!!
Can you honestly imagine Discord singing something like Hellfire in the show? That has always seemed really, really OOC for me. Discord can be serious, but to have an angsty musical number about his internal conflict driven by lust is just so NOT Discord. He's not an incel edgelord. There are serious angsty characters for whom Hellfire would not look out of place, but Discord is a wacky chaos wizard who makes chocolate rain and talks to his clones. It's just ridiculous trying to make him into the type of character that would sing Hellfire. This just shows that not every good thing has to go together.
Despite the song is great but it doesn't fits someone's wacky like Discord; the song should be: *"DISCORD! I'm howlin' on the moon!"* and here's like puttin' Mad Hatter from Alice In Wonderland to sings *I'm Blue* by Eiffel 65.
@@Distrekzy But, even though, it's still odd for a character who's wacky singin' an edgy song. The most reasonable I think, DF makes Discord sing Hellfire only for the plot, not for the character himself.
@@Distrekzy And also I saw him as already a wacky villain in the show, so you say "This was way before we got to know more about Discord" Sorry, but this don't work as an excuse in my opinion.
@@CannoliSlugYT Yeah, I mean, BOD came out when it was all the Fluttercord hype, maybe the author was kinda influenced by some other works that made Discord seem less wacky. At least it was Disney Fanatic’s Discord and not the one from the series lol, imagine they changed the character like that
Yep, the whole thing screams wannabe disney fanfic. But, i had fun with it when it was out. Sure, some elements were kinda off because we have the power of hindsight. But hey, we all made worser fanfics. I'm honestly impress with the effort they made to this. Kudos to them.
They could’ve aged Spike up, said he’s at the same mentality as ponies cause dragons age differently, etc. but I faintly remember AJ saying something like “We’re going to get married when uh…. Spike is mature enough for that…” so… she’s just canonically a p3do?.. idk there’s no excusing that imo…
The characters are definitely aged up though. We never know Spikes age in the show and it’s pretty clear dragons age up slower than ponies. She’s not a pedo.
I have nothing against DisneyFanatic or the BOD cast, but I personally find it really funny that no one in the crew (except maybe at least one or two people) stood up and said “hey, maybe we shouldn’t romantically pair up a fully-grown pony and a dragon kid together” or something like that.
My question is exactly how old are the mane 6? Cause if they’re 18-20, then they technically wouldn’t be fully grown adults (they’d be late adolescents/emerging adults). I mean it’s still clear Spike is a child and the mane 6 see him as a child, so obviously the ship is creepy. And yeah, I’m not sure how no body just stopped and thought: “huh, maybe this is super creepy.”
@BalladofBigAl Where exactly was Gabby hinted at to be an adult? In her introduction she appeared to be the same age as the CMC and her friendship with Spike, whether romantic or not, made it seem like they were the same age too.
@BalladofBigAl "He's still shipped with Gabby who is an adult which has been hinted at by the show" that's definitely you saying Gabby was implied to be an adult even if that's not what you meant to say. Gabby and the Young 6 are a couple years older than the CMC, I just remembered Sandbar's definitely older than the CMC (I was focused on Gallus and Smolder and forgot him). Gabby's a bit older than Spike but the difference is that they're both portrayed as kids/young teenagers whereas there's definitely a much bigger age gap between Spike and the Mane 6. In human years Spike and Gabby are around 12-15, the adult mares are in their mid twenties before the last episode. Looking at the size difference between Spike and Smolder, I'd say it's safe to assume dragons have pretty significant growth spurts during puberty so Spike most likely is just a couple years younger than the Young 6.
Some of the cast and crew did speak up, but DF at the time was very adamant of what she wanted. Not to say she wasn't compliantly unyielding to changes and modifications and even had me look over the episode script at times looking for things that could accidentally be taken out of context, which were then changed swiftly before sending it out to the cast.
5:17 I know this is unrelated to the video, but can we take a moment to appreciate how genius this marketing strategy is? They give you a free character after 7 days... but it's a support character. Support characters are useless on their own, so you have to buy another character! It's genius! No wonder so many people get scammed!
Funny thing is, I know that Applejack volunteering at the orphanage is supposed to make her look so good and humble and caring and all that, but her relationship with Spike that develops gives that volunteer work *very* different implications.
The BOD audio drama maybe nearly a decade old, but it's still considered to be one of the greatest pieces of fan made mlp content to this day same goes for it's sequel DOD.
Even if it’s writing is poorly aged at best, it’s clear quite a bit of effort was put into it regardless- and will probably be at least a small piece in the brony fandom forever
Daughter of discord I liked more…cause I saw that first before even watching bride of discord lol, I mean BOD was very good, but I was attached to the sequel more lol.
While BOD is one of my favorite mlp audio dramas, I must admit that it hasn't really aged that well i mean in retrospect literally everything about it could be better especially if for whatever reason the series was revamped with a new artstyle and a new voice cast. not that it would ever happen.
One credit I do have to give BoD’s voice acting, after listening to its first episode, is that every actor is doing their darnedest to match the inflections and tones of the original actors. While the og Twilight doesn’t have a super duper unique quality or pitch of voice per say, the audio drama actor’s delivery is so specific it makes them sound a lot more like Tara Strong than they probably would otherwise and becomes more evident when their lines are shorter and so they have less opportunity to fill their delivery with Twilight-isms. Even the voice acting for characters like Pinkie Pie, who do feel held back by the actor’s range (and potentially carefulness towards not waking their parents up), are great with character-consistent acceleration/deceleration of tempo and timbre. As an aspiring VA with some varied stage acting experience, I really admire the passion and effort of those involved in BoD’s voice over. I’m glad that you introduced me to this topic and brought up the voice acting, Shunks, because it’s a genuinely fun little exercise to listen to the actual MLP FiM show and the BoD audio drama and pick out what each impersonator is doing to emulate the original. Okay, now I’m actually gonna finish the video !! Lol
i never watched BoD during my mlp phase, but as a young kid with internet access, i did somehow stumble upon what i’m pretty sure was a sequel, daughter of discord. i have no idea if it was by the same person, but i remember it had an animatic style and voice acting. i wasn’t even a shipper of fluttercord, but i was so invested in the bullying and drama that went on.
I was hugely invested in fluttercord and found DoD when i was a smaller person. I forced my friends to watch it with me and was fully obsessed. I watched BoD a while afterwards and liked it significantly less. (It is a cannon sequel btw) I desperately need talk about/review of DoD.
I’m not a big Fluttercord fan in general so I’m biased, but BOD really is just every fiction relationship trope I hate rolled into one big red flag of a package. It’s a shame because I don’t think I’d dislike Fluttercord so much if this series didn’t set the tone for the ‘beauty and the beast’ dynamic the ship would take on in much of the fan content following it, which I hate to say about a project that everyone involved was clearly so passionate about.
@@thefvguy5648 Not at all, moreso the fact that these borderline abusive tropes were so present in the ships early days which became more prevalent with this series popularising this dynamic in particular. Not to place blame solely on BOD as this definitely got it’s start in the show. I mean in KCAFO we see ‘woman has to warm the evil mans cruel heart’ and at multiple points in the series it leaned into the idea of ‘the man hasn’t actually become a good person and is only nice when this particular woman is around’. This isn’t a very nuanced breakdown of how these are used in the fandom and the show I understand but this is a UA-cam comment that is already too long.
@@tystotallyradicaltoenail as someone who does like fluttercord I agree. I like the idea that Discord actually learns to be a good person through Fluttershy more. Btw what is KCAFO?
This got me thinking how normalized ships like Spike x Aj or Spike x Rarity were and sometimes still are. People literally shipped a baby/child character with adults and it was just the norm? People can argue that it’s fiction, but don’t pretend it doesn’t normalize stuff like pedophilia. The fandom back then was a breeding ground for things as such, and it’s sadly briefly talked about or just ignored! Although, I’m glad a lot of the fandom has grown to understand shipping minors with adults isn’t a “love is love” situation.
I hate to be that guy , but it's ALSO worth noting that a huge portion of the MLP fandom were and still are minors down to a fairly young age. They probably don't understand that it's bad. Especially since it's portrayed as a normal thing several times over in the show where rarity returns spikes affection to some extent in a way to get him to do things for her as "jokes" . Not saying it's in anyway a good or ok thing , ofc. It's also pointed out several times in the show that spike is supposed to be a kid and the mane 5 are most likely young adults.
also the average person really wouldn't notice/remember that there's an age gap and it really isn't portrayed as predatory or a power imbalance. it's two cartoon animals I'm sorry but I can't see how this normalises pedo behaviour (as a csa survivor)
It was so normalized that adult fics featuring child characters had their own genre title, and you'd get torn to shreds by the Fandom for "spreading drama" if you tried to have a conversation about it
Honestly, this concept is present in a lot of fandoms. I remember being very young and in the undertale fandom and thegreatrouge being really big. The watered down version of thegreatrogue’s rein on the undertale fandom was that they were an artist on tumblr who normalized pedophilia to a bunch of young kids and teens while being an adult themselves. Then those kids think that pedophilia is okay since they don’t really understand the world, and the only time they have seen straight up pedophilia was in comics where it was just another cute ship.
Wait, think about it- AppleJack had a crush on what she believed to be a child before she was told that dragons age differently. And then also was told to wait, essentially grooming him until he’s older Gross
Hello Shunks, BigApplePie here, original VA for Discord in Bride of Discord. Yes I can confirm from TV Tropes that is 100% correct on the main reason why I left, so no grains of salt necessary (although I appreciate your candor). I've actually made a 2-parter explanation video 7 years ago discussing it. However, going back to those videos recently, they seem a bit outdated in terms of my thought process, and I may do a new video in the future explaining the explanation. I still recommend watching them regardless, just know my more brash attitude at points weren't intentional but still occurred. And I have recently apologized to a few comments I replied to rather harshly years ago. I still do believe Fluttercord is an abusive relationship, even in the show itself, however, that isn't to say I didn't enjoy myself completely in the production even though were other reasons I realize now of why I left. Also one more thing, Spike's VA is fine, screw you jk. But for real, I enjoy watching reviews and in depth analysissisisiss of BoD, it confirms my own thoughts, and also let's me see what other people took from this series. We were very VERY young at the time when we made this drama, most of us were barely 20, some of us still teens. I hope a lot of us learned from it. I do not have an issue discussing the past, I'm just a lot more mature about it. So thanks for the good video.
@@danielferrovias Oh yeah...Thomas the Tank Engine. You mean the original model train version? Because I can definitely see George Carlin's take on Diesel and my impression of Discord sounding similar now that you mention it.
I certainly believe you enjoyed yourself, considering the bloopers. (It's been so long since I watched them but I still remember "She's so...so." Lmao.)
I don't know if it makes the subtext any less troubling, but Fluttershy's sense of giving up her life might allude to the myth of Cupid and Psyche where Psyche thought she was getting married off to a horrible monster, someone "feared by the gods" (i.e. the tempestuous emotions of affection, as it turns out) and so considered her life forfeit. One way or another, Beauty&Beast stories resemble the myth of Cupid and Psyche, at least if you read Edith Hamilton's "Mythology".
I agree that the relationship in the BOD was very toxic. But I think in the show, the characters could develop a healthy romantic relationship. A lot happened in the show after this fan fic. Discord and fluttershy's characters grew and learned how to communicate with each other and set boundaries. I think with the time skip at the end of the show, that they would have developed romantic feelings for each other and become a healthy couple. But that's just my head canon.
Honestly, so much fan fiction and popular media had really messed up relationships back then that, considering the time period, age of the author, etc… it’s not super surprising to me that there’s messed up stuff happening. I wasn’t an MLP fan but as a pre-teen/teenager I definitely read and liked (and wrote!) SO MUCH fanfiction that looking back had really toxic relationship traits. As a teen, I think I just had the idea in my head that having ‘darker’ and more ‘dramatic’ aspects proved the characters were TRULY in love- like, the idea that love had to painful or drive you crazy or that jealousy/control was romantic or whatever was so prevalent at the time and I’d never been in an adult relationship so I didn’t really understand why that wouldn’t be romantic.
I think what was missing about the Fluttershy actually starting to like Discord part was that in the Beauty and the Beast film, there was a scene before they start to like each other where the Beast saves Belle from wolves. The scene showed that even though Belle left the castle, therefore having no more use to the Beast, he still defended and protected her from harm. This was proof that the Beast actually cared about Belle. Belle then goes back to the castle and tends to the Beast’s wound. These scenes showed their mutual respect and care for one another before they started falling in love. If The Bride of Discord had a scene like that, I think it would allow a smoother transition into their romantic feelings for one another.
The pony with the propeller hat is meant to be the background pony Screwball, who appeared in Discord's first appearance as a background pony. She was most commonly headcanoned as Discord's daughter 8)
I love how "dragons age differently" is a concept brought up to excuse Spikes difference in age - but... doesn't do that at all. It would work if, despite being 10 or whatever, Spike was depicted with an adult mind and body for his kind - on about equal footing with the adults of other species. But he is never treated as such. Ever. In fact it is sorta shown to be the OPPOSITE - Spike and Twilight aren't THAT different in age judging by when she hatched his egg, which means Spike is perhaps YOUNGER in relation to his years - like being mentally 10 when he is 15 or 20 or whatever. For Spike "dragons age differently" makes it WORSE, not better. but fiction is fiction, weird disturbing shit can be explored within art without it being the end of the world or meaning you're some sort of horrible freak - especially when its being done by individuals having fun rather than huge organizations with massive cultural reach.
This is literary the excuse they use in Inuyasha too. Inuyasha is 1600 years old but due to being frozen and ten demon years equalling one human year, he's fifteen but it doesn't change he's underaged while with Kagome when she's an adult in her 20s sooooo.
@@Topdoggie7 Im guessing the creator wanted to make inuyasha and kagome the same age by adding the demon age thing and then forgot that this means kagome will end up being the one mentally older after a few years
@@Topdoggie7 I will say in the very first episode of the show and chapter of the manga, Kagome says herself that she just turned 14, so the two of them don't actually have an insanely wild age gap since Inuyasha was 15. Everything else about their relationship being unhealthy, though, is something I can agree with
@@soooo2210 Except she's an adult now and he's still by his species, a teenager. In the sequel anime she's almost thirty and I believe he's still 17. Do with that what you will.
If you feel like it, honestly you should cover the sequel Daughter of Discord because oh boy is it interesting with Chrysalis being a weird protective mom. (I guess kinda how she is in season 9?)
I think people ship Fluttercord not for the Beauty and Beast romance aspect of it, but how they grow through "the magic if friendship" contributing to Discord's growth first, and that friendship could more beautifully blossom into a relationship. This speedruns it in a way that...yeah becomes not so good lol. Parts of this fic didn't age well, but I still do udnerstand the ship, and this was a very passionate fan creation.
If I were to rewrite this story, I’d make it to where discord would choose twilight as his bride and Fluttershy sacrificing herself in twilights place. (Not only cause she thinks twilights important for equestria, but cause I’d have applejack have a crush on twilight and Fluttershy knows.) And the story would go on from discord being distant (and less controlling and creepy than the actual story), to opening up to Fluttershy and a romance brewing slowly. And Apple Jack and twilight would find comfort in each other and end up together. And the other main 5 would plan on saving her and defeating discord, but he’d set her free anyway. His reasoning would be because he didn’t want their love to be forced, and that he no longer wanted to conquer equestria, that he learned other things are more important to him.
Honestly, no offense to the author, but I'd much rather read this then the actual BOD. Twilight and Applejack is actually a good ship, now that I think about it.
I still find it adorable in later openings of the show you can see Discord in the Fluttershy Cottage with his hands clasped, smiling placidly. They might not be an item, but they clearly were good friends!
Honestly, I'm not really sure how I feel about this fanfic. Back when I was first exposed to it, I wasn't even a Fluttercord shipper- and 'watching' this fanfic certainly didn't turn me into one. I'm not a big fan of very many of the tropes used in this story, and the whole thing with Applejack and Spike weirded me out since day one. Nowadays, I do really enjoy Fluttercord! But really only in the sense where Fluttershy was Discord's first true friend, and it goes from there. I adore their dynamic in the later seasons, and that's really the only way I enjoy this ship. In this house, we stan an assertive Fluttershy who won't hesitate to call Discord out on his bs!!! No shade on the author or anything, these are definitely just my personal thoughts lol
Ah yes, one of the first thing I tried really hard to audition for as a teenage voice actor barely learning the ropes. DisneyFanatic2364 very much didn't know what to do with me lmao, I sent her a MP4 file instead of a MP3 and she was very clearly tired of the exact same mistakes people my age were also doing when trying to audition to be a part of the project. Back then I felt really bad because I simply had no idea what I was doing, but nowadays I just look back on those mistakes and just laugh. This is a really introspective analysis of the series, I really love it! thanks so much for reviewing a tiny part of my childhood/teenagehood
@@silverkip2992 honestly no, I mean you'll miss some build up to a lot of relationships, but it doesn't really focus on them, it focuses on the children coming from those relationships so I feel like you can go in comfortably without watching BoD. But that's just my opinion, I hope you have fun watching them no matter what you do
Nope as someone who watched DOD without seeing BOD you won’t miss anything, it’s mostly an oc story and MUCH better in writing art and sound department
@@silverkip2992 I completely skipped BoD because I wasnt intrested so I watched DoD instead. Its problematic in some spots(appleXspike) but I liked better. Might redesign the characters for fun, I'll have to ask DF first
honestly, I never found myself seeing Fluttershy & discord ever being romantically together. I only got into it because of a ship child who I fell inlove with *sobbing*
The sheer VARIETY that their ship children have is the best, like ofc the pretty pony and the monstrosity have a kid that looks like a vampire and the other is a literal goat 10/10s designs all around
I remember watching the bride of discord videos when I was 9 and I was convinced they actually got together and had that purple kid with the spiny eyes as their child
A certain thing I felt was bizarre was when they were trying to make Applejack and Spike a couple. It kinda draws away from the main focus and felt so forced. It’s not the worse piece of fiction but, it needs a lot of work. Another thing is that I’m a big fan of FlutterCord, so I definitely got wrapped into the concept. It’s kinda cute and it’s pretty fun to see how they worked it into a story.
If I remember correctly, the asking "Do you love me?" thing is from the original la belle et la bete story. At least I'm pretty sure I remember reading that when I was like 10. Also if you have the time and are willing, it would be wonderful if you did Daughter of Discord. This was such a fun video to watch!
I am a Fluttercord shipper by the canon series (except season 9, they butchered him). I never really watched this fanfic (only saw episode 2) and HOLY SMOKE what a weird train ride. If you want Fluttercord content, just watched the series. There's a bunch of episodes about them and they did the ship better. Also if you are looking to make more videos about MLP fanfic, I suggest Princess Trixie Sparkle. It's created by Magpie Pony, iirc a very known member of brony fandom back then. Personally never finished it tho, dropped it when I was 13.
i was a young impressionable kid in the mlp fandom when i came across this story. after watching the series i actually went and wrote my own applejack x spike fanfiction. the way their relationship was portrayed in BoD/DoD genuinely made me think that aj and spike was a really good pairing and that they deserved to be canon in the show (lmao). of course now i understand how wrong that is and i’m weirded out just thinking about it. but i think it’s important to note that a lot of the team behind this was probably teenagers who didn’t really realize what was wrong with it.. on the other hand it’s very important to be conscious of what you’re putting on the internet especially knowing that your target audience is impressionable kids
I love how you point out the problematic elements of this fic while never demonizing the author, reminding people that back when he wrote the story he was still relatively young. Very respectful.
As a FlutterCord shipper, this series was my whole jam back then. I revisited it a few weeks ago, and yeah it didn't age well at all, but I got those nostalgic tingles, and what else could I have asked for.
I grew up w BoD, I even remember when DF was looking for voices, so a lot of the red flags flew over younger me’s head. BoD is very special to me due to nostalgia and the amount of work put into it but it’s cliché tropes and romanticization of toxic relationships cannot be ignored :( I hope u make a vid on DoD, keep up the good work shunks:)!
I never watched BoD and really tried one time but it was dull for me and stopped around halfway of the second episode of the audio reading. But truly my only memorable thing was the sequel to this, Daughter of Discord. It was a fanatic over Screwballs story, that follows after BoD events a few years later. Which follow Screwball & her friends one of which was Screwball's love interest Mossball who was a changeling. I was young to remember any drama happening but I recall a video discussing about the hate or annoyance of people being mad on how long it took to make each episode. Which is just really poor and sad of the community to do that.
I find it interesting how in a production that seemed to be majority women for cast and crew, it was the guy who may have had the strongest objection to the stories depiction of the controlling relationship of a male draconis over a female pony.
The sheer amount of effort put in to BoD aside, every character felt off. Like AJ wouldn't be pining for anyone. She'd throw a bunch of southern jibes, pretend it doesn't matter and take out her frustration by putting more work in to the farm.
@@DrawciaGleam02 yeah, but it still felt way off for the character. If anything, AJ would fawn for a hardworking, honest, and authentic pony who could make her laugh and keep her talking about life throughout the evenings. I don't think she'd do the lovey dovey unless it was really cheesy but only after they established kindled emotions. She'd want somepony who could commit to her passions as well as her committing to theirs, not "oh yeah, he saved me that one time so now we're dating I guess". Edit: the polar opposite to what AJ would look for in a Stallion would be Flim and Flam.
@@MegaAniLinkFan that's just rewriting a character's entire character for the sake of a ship. Flim wouldn't go abandoning his brother in the same way AJ wouldn't go abandoning the farm. If Film even tried to win over AJ's heart, there would forever be the doubt wiggling in her mind that he's only toying with her to take over the farm. Nopony would match up to what she would look for in a stallion because they have to be honest, hardworking, matter-of-fact, and not afraid to get their hooves dirty which does not describe Flim or Flam at all. And that pony would have to move to the farm and dedicate to the family business. As a family. Flim would destroy that if it would make an extra bit out of each.
@@classydays43 Well that's what a fanfic is for. You tell a story and change a few things and if you care about your own writing, have it make sense for someone to change or turn a new leaf. Just as you would being the actual writer for the show/movie you're doing a derivative work on.
It's a little hard to rewatch this series because of all the glaring red flags in the main and side relationship. I mean, you can kinda tell what the author was trying to do, but it doesn't work. I can't even buy the last episode's resolution where Fluttershy says she loves Discord. I mean, for all we know she's still experiencing lingering brainwashing effects or something, not to mention they've been living together for only a month and that seems like a shallow amount of time for a romance.
I remember I couldn’t get into BOD but I was really into DOD. You should talk about daughter of discord if you get a chance, I believe the team improved a lot compared to bride of discord.
The biggest problem I have with the story is how it unintentionally normalises toxic or flat out abusive behaviour between Fluttershy and Discord Putting the whole kidnapping thing aside, there are multiple instances where Discord acts incredibly toxic in the story. He never respects Fluttershy's personal space, he teleported her out of the room and held her in a threatening manner when Fluttershy doesn't want to leave her room, he acts butthurt when she reveals her nightmares to him (also he watches her in her sleep), he looses his temper AGAIN when she rejects him AGAIN, hypnotists her to try to force her go marry him (the whole conformation between them in episode 9 in her room is just really uncomfortable in general) but the worst part of all of this is that its Fluttershy that learns a lesson, not Discord. Yes he does try to apologise in the last episode, but they also have Fluttershy apologising. Apparently the original actor for Discord even left the project because he felt uncomfortable with how the relationship was potrayed, and personally I don't blame him I just find it really uncomfortable how the story unintentionally normalises toxic relationships and partners, its clear that wasn't the intent and this isn't me encouraging others to harass DF or anyone who worked on the project, I hope they all can learn from this experience and improve as writers/artist/voice actors Edit: I also wanna bring up the whole AJ and Spike romance because oof, even as a kid I found it really weird, again I don't think SF had any ill intentions but even then it's still really weird. I think instead of AJ having feelings towards Spike, have it where she wants to help Spike realise that he and Rarity aren't gonna work (for obvious reasons) but is struggling because she doesn't want Spikes feelings to get hurt. You could even have it where its revealed in the scene between AJ and Zecora that AJ actually had feelings towards Rarity, but was heartbroken when she was in love with someone else, so she doesn't want Spike to feel that heartbreak
Like a lot of other commenters here, my real connection to this series was the sequel, Daughter of Discord. It was a big part of my childhood and I remember the protagonist, Screwball, being a huge comfort character for me in a really hard time of my development. I can’t say for sure since it’s been so long, but from what I remember, I think the Discord and Flutter pairing was handled better in DoD. I specifically remember what I think was an implication that Discord was consistently forced to sleep on the couch if Flutters was frustrated with him, which I actually like. Balances their power dynamic more and shows that she still has agency and authority in this situation. You definitely don’t have to, and if you do, take your time, but I really would love to see you cover DoD! I never got around to finishing it, but I’m sure revisiting it would be an interesting experience. Only do it if you want to though! Your videos are super high quality and very insightful, looking forward to the Witchcraft video.
Cause it wasn’t necessary, it was a parody of Beauty and the beast where the same thing happens. Especially cause Fluttershy decided to sacrifice herself. Yeah it was creepy but that was kinda the point at the start. Not every ship has to be healthy but that’s my opinion.
@@nikkiralaniakea9527 never said the problem was that the relationship was unhealthy. the problem is that discord never gets called out for it. i enjoy some unhealthy parings but the author picked and chose which problems to focus on, and then acted like everything was solved in the end. and as well, i was talking about the series in general, not the actual romance. of course apple jack and spike are a problem. another personal ick of mine, it doesnt really matter in the grand sceme, is that the author wanted to have heterosexual main 6 ships so bad that they resorted to THAT.
@@batxic you’re right, I don’t remember him being called out, then again everything he did was explained with that he was lonely and that’s why he did bad things. Obviously that does not excuse it but to me it was clear that it was bad. That’s why I didn’t need the author to “call it out”. Also Spike was aged up. He could have been legal despite the age difference due to dragons aging up a lot slower.
@@nikkiralaniakea9527 aging up isnt a excuse, as it was solely done for the purpose of pairing him with apple jack. it isnt a au where spike is a similar age to them. there was a timeskip, so we dont know if aj actually groomed him or not. but it is mentioned she had feelings for him since he saved her in that one episode (the name of it slipped my mind). which means she liked him as a baby..
@@batxic bruh, these aren’t real people. Stop speculating whether she groomed him or not because none of that happened in the story. I personally think that both characters are adults or have very close ages then it’s ok. The author probably just wanted to make sure everyone got paired up.
a weird thing about myself and this series is that i did not watch bride of discord at all, little 7-8 y/o (i cant remember all that well) went STRAIGHT to daughter of discord and i LOVED it
I've seen a few vids about Bride of Discord and from what I've seen people either ignore AJ X Spike or just completely gloss over it like it is nothing! Glad someone finally said something about it.
26:28 This is from the original tale actually. Each night the Beast asked Beauty to marry him, shed say no each time. Depending on the version, her sisters show up and cause his death somehow (no Gaston in the OG, just jealous sisters) she says something along the lines of "I love you" or "I will Marry you" etc. and then the curse is broken.
That stuff was sooo popular back then as well and even today with younger people. There's this trope of it being a flattering image to have your character be so beautiful and desirable that someone wants to take them even against their will. Then we get older and we're like -- OH. That's actually messed up and traumatizing!
32:30 the best way to do the Soarin and RD thing would be have RD be down and missing Fluttershy, but then get the wholesome moments with Soarin when he comes by to cheer her up.
Bride of Discord, Daughter of Discord, and Son-In-Law of Discord changed my brain chemistry because it came out around the same time I started writing fanfic and I was like "this is top tier gold writing and character writing" and looking back it is very very dated but its so nostalgic to remember the scenes and writing and some of the creative ways DisneyFanatic wrote about characters, I especially remember how she wrote Trixie into the story and giving Queen Chrysalis more backstory too Not gold tier in writing, but gold tier in my heart for internet nostalgia and memory
I believe DF was also heavily inspired by Phantom of the Opera. They even used one of the songs in the story albeit as a parody. As a person who was also into POTO at a young age, it did give me a messed up outlook on relationships and I’m sure with DF as well. I remember the fandom having a weird obsession with Discord ships paralleling the Phantom of the Opera’s Christine and The Phantom. Even as a kid on dA I still found it sort of weird though.
@@heneedsloveoooh I believe it’s just the song “Phantom of the Opera”. It might be “Music of the Night” tho. Sorry I didn’t see this comment til now lol.
About the whole “Discord asking Fluttershy if she loves him every night” I think that’s borrowed from one of the older versions of Beauty and the Beast (pre-Disney) I remember watching a TikTok series on it and that same thing happens.
This is the official video where Discord’s VA discusses how he hasn’t liked Fluttershy and Discord’s relationships since episode 5: ua-cam.com/video/84LU3RMKrg4/v-deo.html
Thank you for talking about this! I've heard about this but was nervous to look it up. Also, the person who did the artwork of Discord wrapping around Fluttershy to protect her is my favorite. Like that particular piece is awesome.
I remember loving this back in the day and I was there for every upload of the audio drama of DOD. I even read some of Son-in-Law of Discord when I was supposed to be sleeping. Good times!
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HUH???
Ya know.
I'm happy you got a sponser.
But, I'll just say, imo raid is meh. I'm happy others can enjoy it though.
Raid is a shady company, they have lied several times and even said that “they don’t pay anyone to sponsor us, they just do it on their own accord” or something on Twitter.
There are UA-cam videos going into detail on how shady the company is. I recommend Karl smallwoods video on it.
YEAH GET THAT MONEY, HAPPY FOR U
Yeah. I think it's safe to say that I'm not the same writer I was around 10 years ago that I am now.
I mean I was 18. No 18-year-old is expected to be a perfect writer who knows everything about the world (heck I was even homophobic before I came out myself).
Thank you for offering your honest opinion. Maybe when I'm in a better emotional mindset, I'll watch the whole thing one day.
@DisneyFanatic2364
I watch alot of audio drama from the MLP fandom and I think your work is still great compareded to most work out today. I give super credit too all the effort that was put into this.
So I do disagree with most of what was said and think that it was a master piece for it's time
( Of course... Apple X Spike is still kinda weird but we can just leave that as it is 😂😂
I love your work and this fanfic helped me when I had a real bad depression episode years ago
So i hold it dear to my heart.
I rewatched it recently and still think of it as great
Sure, the more inocente and childdish atmoshpere maybe didnt age well with the viewers because we are older now and more mature
But still, of most audiodramas the fact that this has actual scenes made for it is just fantastic and I have not seen another audio drama like it
Maybe you should start by NOT writing grooming out to be cute, ESPECIALLY when majority of your viewers are underaged? Seriously man that's fuckin creepy.
I'm hoping that one day the story gets an HD remaster
And by that I mean that the story feels more solid and fluid and no creepy woman wanting child thing
Don't get me wrong I like the ship but no
@@RisingCrossroadsStudios I do agree about a remaster but change the whole ship between applejack and spike. Maybe possibly applejack and flim or flam (a enemies to lovers kinda deal)
I'm sorry but the little unborn child just being there off the side is hilarious
Without content this would be possibly the strangest thing I’ve ever read lol 😂
I don’t know the context sooo wtf
Timestamp?
I’m surprised you didn’t even mention daughter of discord tbh, I remember being OBSESSED with this fic when I was a kid and yikes did I not notice how creepy it was sometimes!
Never heard of that one, what was creepy about it?
@@mysticmaya3710 it was a sequel audio drama to bride of discord. In that one fluttershy has a baby with discord. And the baby ends up being Screwball (the one pony in the first discord episode) it’s pretty standard “weird child gets made fun of for being weird”. But I’m pretty sure spike and AJ get married? Idk they don’t really talk about it that much in the audio drama. It was actually better quality production wise, but yeah it was a bit weird.
@@mysticmaya3710 oh no when i meant creepy i meant bride of discord, i cant quite remember the details on dod
I was obsessed with DoD too, but now I've mostly forgotten it
omg same! i wanted to be screwball so bad haha
“the real bride of discord was the friends we made along the way” absolutely sent me
The way she described Discord's backstory in this made me think of Megamind. Weird kid is last of his species and tries to fit in using his talents. Messes it up and ends up looking like the bad guy. Decides to be the bad guy he's accused of being, while having fun with it.
Megamind and Discord would vibe
makes sense since the original fanfic's author wrote megamind fanfiction before doing MLP.
LOL did not know that
Now all I can think of is Disord as the “No bitches” meme
@@crazypyp5871 he WOULD do that meme
Yeah, the Spike and Applejack thing ALWAYS irked me, even when I was like 13.
I never like spike x mane 6 at all
The spike x rarity thing the show pushed just irked me
Not even time wizard can make this baby dragon ship ok
I found it discomforting.
Same, especially with the creepy “teenagers can date adults it’s fine”
As a little kid it didn’t bother me as much, because I viewed it as less toxic compared to Rarity x Spike for whatever reason. But now that I’m older and understand how age difference works….yeah no it’s really really weird 😬
I tend to skip the SpikeXApplejack stuff when I read the fic or watching the audio drama
Ironically, I feel like Keep Calm and Flutter on was unironically a better Fluttercord story, and this is coming from a multishipper with a love for Flairity (Rarity x Fluttershy). Fluttershy calls Discord out when he's being an asshole and Discord actually has to reflect on his actions and be a better person. It's believable that they start becoming better friends and their development in future episodes could realistically lead to them becoming a couple. Fluttershy is a character that tries to see the best in everyone and it makes sense that it's in her nature to give even the worst people a second chance and that she would see his legitimate efforts to be better and appreciate them. But she also sets limits and makes it clear to Discord she won't put up with him abusing their friendship to do whatever he wants and he needs to be a good friend too.
Never read it, should i?
Yeah! I am much more a fan of Discord actually learning to be a good person through Fluttershy instead of only being nice when she's around.
@@Starbonsai It's an episode from the show, not a fanfiction. If you enjoy Discord and Fluttershy it's a good episode!
@@kittygardenva2741 oh, now i know the episode you mean, yes I watched it. Is that the one where he invites her over...?
@@Starbonsai Yeah after he gets un-turned to stone
Oh yeah the whole Applejack x Spike thing is ….uncomfortable. And AJ’s was just definitely Out of Character in this.
All characters are out of character.
@@smcphee8499 still doesn't make it okay
Not just AJ and Spike but also Rarity too@BigAlsBallad
I actually wouldn’t call Cadence’s baby a prediction. You’d have to be an old fan to remember this, but back in the day right after the two got married and the crystal empire was shown, there was already a very famous fan OC (which even got its own toy) named Princess Skyla. It was basically a Sweetie Belle recolor, but when flurry heart was shown I remember there being backlash that she wasn’t Skyla.
That's what Skyla was? I remember everyone was really scratching their heads over the seemingly random two alicorns they suddenly added to the toy line but I didn't think we ever figured it out. That does make sense though, was it a Make a Wish kid or something?
@@Solaceon I honestly can’t find anything online about it other than fanfics and fanart as well as confirmation it was a fan made character. I know the show has done make a wish requests (a disabled character in the background of ‘Trade-Ya’), but I doubt Skyla’s toy is the result. There’s really nothing solid on why the hell she has a toy.
I HAD HER IM PRETTY SURE!
dude, it's also crazy because there was a filly plush that was supposed to be twilight sparkle x PRINCE BLUEBLOOD 😭 of all the ponies they could've chose twi to have a baby with they chose the dickiest guy in the show 😭
@@ReitanaViscera that was actually just a photoshop edit of the skyla toy, also i don't think skyla was originally an oc, hasbro had a habit back then of creating really weird toy exclusive characters for mlp
I really like your good-natured attitude towards amateurish/dated material. It's very sweet and positive.
Same here
i do too
Late to the party, but as a VOA/actress myself, Rarity has what's called a Mid-Atlantic or Transatlantic accent. It was really popular in Hollywood in the 20th century, as well as the 'upper class'. It's not EXACTLY British, but it was as close as the US ever got to a 'posh' accent. Small detail, doesn't really matter, but there you go. :)
I love how respectful this is. You can be critical without hating on the creators behind it (especially since most of them were young and inexperienced), and I like that you give credit to the creative effort behind it.
Ikr? If I wanna criticizing somethin', I'll separate the work from the creator. I wouldn't hate the creator cuz they're a person and people can change and mature later or for a long while, even though the craps they've done.
While the work, it's not a person and it doesn't change or mature by itself, how much hate it get and show how this is bad that it must change, have a remake of that work or just simply make a new story above of it.
@Cannoli Slug So you're saying that a bad piece of media should get a second much better version?, i don't it's neccesary i think you should do an original idea and make it better than your previous work.
@@edwinve4112 good advice
I kinda feel like the show shares some blame for legitimising Spike as a possible romantic interest for the adult ponies. They play it off as a will they won’t they dynamic, and while us adults understand it’ll never happen because of the age difference the show never really explains to children who don’t understand that why this kind of relationship is wrong.
I understand children crushing on older people is a normal thing that happens and it’s not inherently wrong to depict that, but when your audience is mostly children I think you have a responsibility to explain why these kinds of relationships shouldn’t be pursued. Many young people don’t fully understand why they’re wrong so depicting them completely neutrally leaves some kids just thinking this is a normal romantic pairing. It’s no surprise that some young impressionable fans wrote fanfics thinking this was normal.
this! i was waiting for the day spike and rarity would finally get together, but then it was when i was around 17 i realized how weird the relationship was! and like, it's hardly neutral in the show, there's literally an episode in a later season where spike gets a gf and rarity gets jealous and tries to break them up... like, rarity's one of my favorite characters, but ew wtf
@@CrazyGreenFluff yes I had the same experience! I thought it was fine until I grew up, it really leaves a sour taste in my mouth. Rarity is otherwise one of my favourite characters but some of her episodes with spike make me sick with how she just lets it happen, absolutely horrible behaviour to normalise to children.
This ^^
Ironically Spike seems to be older than he looks too.
@@nightshroud9671 He goes through dragon puberty in an episode so he's clearly still a minor
The song that Discord sings to Fluttershy is a parody of "Music of the Night" from The Phantom of the Opera, genuinely gave me whiplash when I first heard it and I couldn't stop laughing throughout the entire thing. Also yeah, the original song's lyrics is around just as creepy as it is in BOD
Yeah, I don't want to dis DF, but for their music parodies I think they missed the context behind some of the songs they picked to use. In this case, Music of the Night is sung by a creepy stalker who's trying to manipulate and lure a young girl away so that she'll be with him. In this case, the phantom is supposed to be bad and we're rooting for Christine to escape from him, not fall in love with him. Also, Hellfire is equally creepy involving an old man lusting over a girl and threatening to end her if she rejects him.
Just saying, for a romance audio drama, you probably don't want your male lead singing two villain songs related to manipulation and control of the heroine.
The whole point of Phantom is to call out these creepy incell stories. No you can’t get the girl my tricking and kidnapping her, she’s her own person and she will decide.
So using a Phantom song in your BatB AU is kinda missing the world point of both stories
@@PaintSplashProductions ngl didn't even realize that reading the book. I haven't seen the play adaptations but have heard the soundtrack (fire btw). So in my opinion book phantom is waaaay worse than play phantom.
Okay same on the whiplash I watched it with my twin, and I had to explain to him why I was laughing during the song since while he watched Phantom once (25th Anniversary Royal Albert Hall) he hadn't seen it in 7 years while I being obsessed with theater listen to it pretty often and instantly recognized it XD
It always strikes me as missing the point entirely when PhanGirls don't get why the Phantom NOT getting Christine is justified and the right outcome. He gaslights and grooms Christine, kills and threatens people, and intended to force her to be his by killing a guy she loved.
As someone who has been in 2 abusive relationships, the author is definitely romanticizing it. Not intentionally but the fact that discord still got his way in the end, and fluttershy and discord being portrayed as happy is basically saying “if you’re mean and toxic enough and take advantage of someone’s kindness and thats unable to say “no” most of the time, you’ll get your way eventually!”
I know the author didnt intentionally do this but Bride of Discord is romanticizing abusive and toxic relationships
Again, no hate to DF, they didnt know any better, but dont say it wasn’t romanticizing it, cause this story did
@BalladofBigAl Wow...Really?!?!
I'm so sorry you had to go through that...
Damn, now that I'm rethinking about it as I'm older it really was... I feel maybe some people liked it because it helped them maybe cope with past relationships of their own? horrible coping mechanism I know but it could be why a lot of people looked past that abuse.
True. Discord acts like a complete monster all throughout the story and he never really redeems himself. He doesn’t make up for his actions and he doesn’t really give a good apology. The ending kinda feels rushed tbh.
And Discord is just as possessive towards their daughter in the sequel series too.
Just to be clear, you were correct about the first voice actor for Discord leaving because he didn’t like the relationship between the main characters. Way back when, I actually kept up with this and he made a video explaining it. He’s probably long since deleted it, just thought you should know you were accurate about this detail!
Nah other older videos of mine are deleted/privated, but those 2 are still up. A bit outdated, but still there.
@BalladofBigAl shunks needs to do daughter of discord
Alright then@@MegaAniLinkFan
Funnily enough the sequel “daughter of discord” was better production and story wise. Still cliche, but still kinda weird at times (I’m pretty sure AJ and Spike get married??? Don’t quote me on that but it’s always kinda weirded me out, even as a kid..) but yeah BOD and DOD were weird.
I am halfway through the video while typing this. But it’s great so far! Love deep dives like this!
Edit: I finished, It was great!
Yeah I watched daughter of Discord and it actually Is way better in my opinion
I’ve seen DOD like, multiple times and yeah Applejack and Spike are married with 3 kids, two adopted and one genetic kid. That’s right, half dragon half pony child. I think his name was applespike
yeah, i think AJ and Spike got married cause I remembered the part where they adopted two kids
I listed to both bod and dod during finals. I aced every class
i googled the author and apparently there's also a third part named "Son in Law of Discord"
which uh
not as catchy of a title
I feel like it's odd how draconequis all look the same, their whole appearance would probably look different because of how they represent chaos
Yea! Like maybe a different combination of animals for each draconequis! Maybe some have parts of inanimate objects! Possibilities are endless
and ironically, they do in canon- the two other draconequui we see in the comics are Cosmos and Eris, and they look wildly different
@@sunbirth4795 I actually didn't know they existed, I'd never read the comics, but that's very cool!
They do look all different in the comics.
They do in the comics. I even got my own fluttercord baby who has a sabertooth head, noodle body, dragon arms, deer legs, moth wings, and an alligator tail.
As one of the artist My new da name is DannysArtDen I came in the Relapse episode and more specifically I did the art behind the really toxic scene in fluttershys bedroom where discord hypnotizes her. I meant for it to be as uncomfortable as possible as i was going through a relationship like that so i pulled from my own experiences. This was a labor of love for a lot of us artist and va's. Artist pulled long night working on their pieces. Hell PandemoniumisChaos now known as TheArtsyEmporium is my twin sibling we were both pulling long night working on this as well as our college work in our dorm room. While working on this as well as it sequal series we were proud of the work we were doing.
As for the VA for discord was DF cousin and he found the dynamic icky thats why he left he was also getting really burnt out on voice acting at the time. He's a really sweet guy tho. The willstinator is also a really nice guy as well.
Please cover Daughter of Discord the last episode we got contacted by the Make-a-Wish foundation to add a little girl into the shows finally. The acting and art are all really good. Sadly the VA for Fluttershy did leave during the show. Daughter of discord pulls from Lion kIng 2 and Romeo and Juilet. I think we actually had some Orginal song in that series too.
See all the comments of like "Ah yes i saw this as a child" made me go oof im old.
Thank you for your compliments. I remember when you first shared those scary pics of Ep 9. I remember everyone's scared reaction, even mine.
@@MegaAniLinkFan Hey BAP miss seeing you man good to hear from you :3
Maybe instead of Applejack and Spike getting together, maybe they could’ve had Apple Bloom develop a crush on Spike and just have Applejack be a supportive older sister and help Apple Bloom through her feelings throughout the story. She can still give her speech to the rest of the main 6 about true love later on in the story since you don’t need to have a crush to know how love works.
Not a fanfiction prompt, just a suggestion for the taboo age gap issue 😬
And also have Apple Bloom and Spike's relationship to be puppy love
Yes! That would make more sense tbh :PP
But the author clearly prefers AppleJack x Spike ship. Dunno why though, it feels so random - especially the way she writes it with the whole drama thingy, Applejack crying because of her unrequited love for this prepubescent dragon boy, blushing like crazy and stuff.
@@smart.but.stupid I think her shipping fuel came from "Spike at Your Service" considering how often clips are used from there. (I think that episode was also mentioned in Bride of Discord as the point Applejack fell for Spike. *gags* I hated typing that sentence.)
Lowkey love Spikebloom so that would've made me very happy
Ok, I actually really love that you kept the baby on screen so we didn't forget about her. My memory recall can be pretty shoddy at times, and I often DO forget "let's put a pin in that" details in longer video essays
your comment reminded me of the baby. thank you
I didn't even notice that, wish video essays did this more often
gonna be honest, ive always liked fluttershy and discord as friends with a familial type of relationship, which would always turn me off from the romantic ship. but even if that wasnt the case, the red flags you pointed out in this story are way too glaring and loud to ever allow me to enjoy it. i think you were spot on to call out every bit you did. as a psych grad with experience from my internships, these are all signs of unhealthy relationships that can be found in real life examples as well, and considering the author allegedly was basing this around what was around them at the time that is... very concerning. but from the sound of it they have learned its not okay, so im glad theyre getting better and wish them the best. loved your analysis, youre one of my fav mlp youtubers ✨
Too bad. Fluttercord is canon.
@@ToriCake95 if you Seriously think that ships from a cartoon Thats already ended are gonna keep me up at night by being "canon" or not then I think youre projecting a bit ngl. Anyway... my cat says hi shes kneading next to me and she wishes you a nice day
@@kindestegg9989 I'm not projecting, since the literal voice actors for Fluttershy, Discord and the creator confirmed it as Canon themselves.
@@ToriCake95 ??????? I think you are reading completely inexistent words in what im saying I dont think I can help you.
@@kindestegg9989 don't worry, i'll say hi to your cat
I literally love the ship so much but bride of discord kinda made it weird, like when I grew up I noticed more of its red flags
Yeah
@Checuke isolation, forcing fluttershy to not see her friends, kidnapping the princess and twilight’s unborn niece as a form of blackmail to convince a mare to step forward to be Discord’s bride, trying to get her to say that she loves him, developing feeling for her captor by pointing out his flaws but slapping on some goodness to make it seem like the bad isn’t that bad by comparison, he still kept her isolated even when she agreed to the marriage but it was like a willingly kidnapping so to speak but those are some red flags also the entirety of spike and applejacks relationship
Ikr I was reminiscing about it earlier and realized some too and even still Ik it’s a parody of Beauty and the Beast (which shares similar themes)
*This is like a modern red flag ppl bring up but..*
Comparing an ex to your current partner: Discord mentioning he likes Fluttershy’s pink mane and then mentioning Celestia also had a pink mane and how he was a bit sad she changed it (changed bc of the elements) and Celestia being implied to be an old flame of Discord? 😅 it’s not like major but nowadays people will complain
@@Kitty294_ That could have been one of my ad libs because I was a Dislestia fan at the time. I tended to add some jokes of Celestia and/or Chrysalis being a thing in my ad lib and bloopers. Cool though how you analyzed that XD.
The sad thing is, in the original fairy tale it IS Beauty who is the one who has to change. Disney did their best to make the story not as problematic where the beast is a selfish prick who gets cursed and learns a lesson.
Beauty gets sold to a wealthy man so her father can pay off his debts, and basically she has to learn to see the good inside the man who bought her.
It’s not Stockholm syndrome, it’s just…hey this is your life as a beautiful woman who is property, might as well learn to love it right?
I love the fact that Dragons aging differently was somehow supposed to be an excuse for Spike and AJ to be a thing.
Yeah sure, Dragons do age differently. It seems like they take *longer* to age to maturity than ponies. bruh. He's *literally* a *baby dragon*.
I'm completely down for making the excuse in fiction that a fantasy race matures faster than humans, if thats how that works for them, then fine. But that is definitely *not* how that works here.
Many shipped it cause lol. For me and my friend we would draw spike but as an actual big dragon not a kid
Spike says in Chapter 6, that he is "Practically a teenager." in pony years. But that would mean Spike would be, at the youngest, 13 YEARS OLD in pony years! That would make Applejack, 20 YEARS OLD!!
I shipped them as a kid because I thought the main 6 were kids for some reason lol
Can you honestly imagine Discord singing something like Hellfire in the show? That has always seemed really, really OOC for me. Discord can be serious, but to have an angsty musical number about his internal conflict driven by lust is just so NOT Discord. He's not an incel edgelord. There are serious angsty characters for whom Hellfire would not look out of place, but Discord is a wacky chaos wizard who makes chocolate rain and talks to his clones. It's just ridiculous trying to make him into the type of character that would sing Hellfire. This just shows that not every good thing has to go together.
Despite the song is great but it doesn't fits someone's wacky like Discord; the song should be: *"DISCORD! I'm howlin' on the moon!"* and here's like puttin' Mad Hatter from Alice In Wonderland to sings *I'm Blue* by Eiffel 65.
I mean, this was way before we got to know more about Discord
@@Distrekzy But, even though, it's still odd for a character who's wacky singin' an edgy song. The most reasonable I think, DF makes Discord sing Hellfire only for the plot, not for the character himself.
@@Distrekzy And also I saw him as already a wacky villain in the show, so you say "This was way before we got to know more about Discord" Sorry, but this don't work as an excuse in my opinion.
@@CannoliSlugYT Yeah, I mean, BOD came out when it was all the Fluttercord hype, maybe the author was kinda influenced by some other works that made Discord seem less wacky. At least it was Disney Fanatic’s Discord and not the one from the series lol, imagine they changed the character like that
Yep, the whole thing screams wannabe disney fanfic. But, i had fun with it when it was out. Sure, some elements were kinda off because we have the power of hindsight. But hey, we all made worser fanfics. I'm honestly impress with the effort they made to this. Kudos to them.
Considering the poster and organiser is literally called “DisneyFanatic [numbers]” and it’s very easy to see the inspiration
@@unplugmylifesupporttocharg3014
Yes, I was gonna say that!!
They could’ve aged Spike up, said he’s at the same mentality as ponies cause dragons age differently, etc. but I faintly remember AJ saying something like “We’re going to get married when uh…. Spike is mature enough for that…” so… she’s just canonically a p3do?.. idk there’s no excusing that imo…
The characters are definitely aged up though. We never know Spikes age in the show and it’s pretty clear dragons age up slower than ponies. She’s not a pedo.
@@nikkiralaniakea9527 Except the show writers came out and said that Spike is still a child; even after he got wings, he's still a child.
@@nikkiralaniakea9527 I’m talking about I’m BOD
@@Tadpole_Plyrr2 in BOD they acknowledge Applejack is in the wrong repeatedly and a pedo.
@BigAlsBalladGabby is actually closer to Spike’s age. So shipping her with him isn’t a problem.
I have nothing against DisneyFanatic or the BOD cast, but I personally find it really funny that no one in the crew (except maybe at least one or two people) stood up and said “hey, maybe we shouldn’t romantically pair up a fully-grown pony and a dragon kid together” or something like that.
My question is exactly how old are the mane 6? Cause if they’re 18-20, then they technically wouldn’t be fully grown adults (they’d be late adolescents/emerging adults). I mean it’s still clear Spike is a child and the mane 6 see him as a child, so obviously the ship is creepy. And yeah, I’m not sure how no body just stopped and thought: “huh, maybe this is super creepy.”
@BalladofBigAl Dude why do you keep commenting this everywhere😭
@BalladofBigAl Where exactly was Gabby hinted at to be an adult? In her introduction she appeared to be the same age as the CMC and her friendship with Spike, whether romantic or not, made it seem like they were the same age too.
@BalladofBigAl "He's still shipped with Gabby who is an adult which has been hinted at by the show" that's definitely you saying Gabby was implied to be an adult even if that's not what you meant to say. Gabby and the Young 6 are a couple years older than the CMC, I just remembered Sandbar's definitely older than the CMC (I was focused on Gallus and Smolder and forgot him). Gabby's a bit older than Spike but the difference is that they're both portrayed as kids/young teenagers whereas there's definitely a much bigger age gap between Spike and the Mane 6. In human years Spike and Gabby are around 12-15, the adult mares are in their mid twenties before the last episode. Looking at the size difference between Spike and Smolder, I'd say it's safe to assume dragons have pretty significant growth spurts during puberty so Spike most likely is just a couple years younger than the Young 6.
Some of the cast and crew did speak up, but DF at the time was very adamant of what she wanted. Not to say she wasn't compliantly unyielding to changes and modifications and even had me look over the episode script at times looking for things that could accidentally be taken out of context, which were then changed swiftly before sending it out to the cast.
5:17 I know this is unrelated to the video, but can we take a moment to appreciate how genius this marketing strategy is? They give you a free character after 7 days... but it's a support character. Support characters are useless on their own, so you have to buy another character! It's genius! No wonder so many people get scammed!
Lol 💀💀💀
😭😭😭😭😭
And then shunks tries to make this scammy game intriguing, I feel bad 😭
Lol 💀💀💀
haven't watched the video yet but i'm betting five bucks it's raid shadow legends
Funny thing is, I know that Applejack volunteering at the orphanage is supposed to make her look so good and humble and caring and all that, but her relationship with Spike that develops gives that volunteer work *very* different implications.
“Say Applejack, I heard you like them young?”
The BOD audio drama maybe nearly a decade old, but it's still considered to be one of the greatest pieces of fan made mlp content to this day same goes for it's sequel DOD.
Even if it’s writing is poorly aged at best, it’s clear quite a bit of effort was put into it regardless- and will probably be at least a small piece in the brony fandom forever
@@sodaboi2154 ^^
Daughter of discord I liked more…cause I saw that first before even watching bride of discord lol, I mean BOD was very good, but I was attached to the sequel more lol.
@@DaylightTwinkle Same lol
While BOD is one of my favorite mlp audio dramas, I must admit that it hasn't really aged that well i mean in retrospect literally everything about it could be better especially if for whatever reason the series was revamped with a new artstyle and a new voice cast. not that it would ever happen.
One credit I do have to give BoD’s voice acting, after listening to its first episode, is that every actor is doing their darnedest to match the inflections and tones of the original actors. While the og Twilight doesn’t have a super duper unique quality or pitch of voice per say, the audio drama actor’s delivery is so specific it makes them sound a lot more like Tara Strong than they probably would otherwise and becomes more evident when their lines are shorter and so they have less opportunity to fill their delivery with Twilight-isms. Even the voice acting for characters like Pinkie Pie, who do feel held back by the actor’s range (and potentially carefulness towards not waking their parents up), are great with character-consistent acceleration/deceleration of tempo and timbre. As an aspiring VA with some varied stage acting experience, I really admire the passion and effort of those involved in BoD’s voice over. I’m glad that you introduced me to this topic and brought up the voice acting, Shunks, because it’s a genuinely fun little exercise to listen to the actual MLP FiM show and the BoD audio drama and pick out what each impersonator is doing to emulate the original. Okay, now I’m actually gonna finish the video !! Lol
Yeah we put in a lot of effort in the voice acting. DF did well with the casting.
i never watched BoD during my mlp phase, but as a young kid with internet access, i did somehow stumble upon what i’m pretty sure was a sequel, daughter of discord. i have no idea if it was by the same person, but i remember it had an animatic style and voice acting. i wasn’t even a shipper of fluttercord, but i was so invested in the bullying and drama that went on.
that is in fact the sequel, and made by the same youtuber!
I was hugely invested in fluttercord and found DoD when i was a smaller person. I forced my friends to watch it with me and was fully obsessed. I watched BoD a while afterwards and liked it significantly less. (It is a cannon sequel btw) I desperately need talk about/review of DoD.
Same, i rewatch Daughter of Dislcrd atleast once every year, its like a thing i do with specific media i love lol!!!
@@mintyfresh2357 I do that right now I am going to send s-I-l-o-d (son in law of discord) to my 5 friends
I’m not a big Fluttercord fan in general so I’m biased, but BOD really is just every fiction relationship trope I hate rolled into one big red flag of a package. It’s a shame because I don’t think I’d dislike Fluttercord so much if this series didn’t set the tone for the ‘beauty and the beast’ dynamic the ship would take on in much of the fan content following it, which I hate to say about a project that everyone involved was clearly so passionate about.
Yeah, I agree
What you dislike the ship solely because of this fan drama?
@@thefvguy5648 Not at all, moreso the fact that these borderline abusive tropes were so present in the ships early days which became more prevalent with this series popularising this dynamic in particular. Not to place blame solely on BOD as this definitely got it’s start in the show. I mean in KCAFO we see ‘woman has to warm the evil mans cruel heart’ and at multiple points in the series it leaned into the idea of ‘the man hasn’t actually become a good person and is only nice when this particular woman is around’. This isn’t a very nuanced breakdown of how these are used in the fandom and the show I understand but this is a UA-cam comment that is already too long.
@@tystotallyradicaltoenail as someone who does like fluttercord I agree. I like the idea that Discord actually learns to be a good person through Fluttershy more. Btw what is KCAFO?
@@silverkip2992 Keep Calm and Flutter On, the episode Discord gets reformed.
“As somebody who has feelings for a child, she knows what real love is.”
I nearly choked on my water, ngl 😂
This got me thinking how normalized ships like Spike x Aj or Spike x Rarity were and sometimes still are. People literally shipped a baby/child character with adults and it was just the norm? People can argue that it’s fiction, but don’t pretend it doesn’t normalize stuff like pedophilia. The fandom back then was a breeding ground for things as such, and it’s sadly briefly talked about or just ignored! Although, I’m glad a lot of the fandom has grown to understand shipping minors with adults isn’t a “love is love” situation.
I hate to be that guy , but it's ALSO worth noting that a huge portion of the MLP fandom were and still are minors down to a fairly young age. They probably don't understand that it's bad. Especially since it's portrayed as a normal thing several times over in the show where rarity returns spikes affection to some extent in a way to get him to do things for her as "jokes" . Not saying it's in anyway a good or ok thing , ofc. It's also pointed out several times in the show that spike is supposed to be a kid and the mane 5 are most likely young adults.
also the average person really wouldn't notice/remember that there's an age gap and it really isn't portrayed as predatory or a power imbalance. it's two cartoon animals I'm sorry but I can't see how this normalises pedo behaviour (as a csa survivor)
It was so normalized that adult fics featuring child characters had their own genre title, and you'd get torn to shreds by the Fandom for "spreading drama" if you tried to have a conversation about it
@@RLane-xz5cj yea that is very yikes, I was an actual kid myself around that time so I can't speak about adult fics lol
Honestly, this concept is present in a lot of fandoms. I remember being very young and in the undertale fandom and thegreatrouge being really big. The watered down version of thegreatrogue’s rein on the undertale fandom was that they were an artist on tumblr who normalized pedophilia to a bunch of young kids and teens while being an adult themselves. Then those kids think that pedophilia is okay since they don’t really understand the world, and the only time they have seen straight up pedophilia was in comics where it was just another cute ship.
Discord: **Literally manipulates and isolates Fluttershy**
The Writer: Imma pretend like I didn't see that.
I'm sorry but the baby being in the corner killed me lmao. great video so far, I'm enjoying it !
Wait, think about it- AppleJack had a crush on what she believed to be a child before she was told that dragons age differently. And then also was told to wait, essentially grooming him until he’s older
Gross
Hello Shunks, BigApplePie here, original VA for Discord in Bride of Discord.
Yes I can confirm from TV Tropes that is 100% correct on the main reason why I left, so no grains of salt necessary (although I appreciate your candor). I've actually made a 2-parter explanation video 7 years ago discussing it. However, going back to those videos recently, they seem a bit outdated in terms of my thought process, and I may do a new video in the future explaining the explanation. I still recommend watching them regardless, just know my more brash attitude at points weren't intentional but still occurred. And I have recently apologized to a few comments I replied to rather harshly years ago.
I still do believe Fluttercord is an abusive relationship, even in the show itself, however, that isn't to say I didn't enjoy myself completely in the production even though were other reasons I realize now of why I left. Also one more thing, Spike's VA is fine, screw you jk.
But for real, I enjoy watching reviews and in depth analysissisisiss of BoD, it confirms my own thoughts, and also let's me see what other people took from this series. We were very VERY young at the time when we made this drama, most of us were barely 20, some of us still teens. I hope a lot of us learned from it.
I do not have an issue discussing the past, I'm just a lot more mature about it. So thanks for the good video.
Your voice acting is pretty good! Reminds me of a character called Diesel.
@@danielferrovias Oh yeah...Thomas the Tank Engine. You mean the original model train version? Because I can definitely see George Carlin's take on Diesel and my impression of Discord sounding similar now that you mention it.
@@MegaAniLinkFan yes
I certainly believe you enjoyed yourself, considering the bloopers. (It's been so long since I watched them but I still remember "She's so...so." Lmao.)
@@ApricityGlow Yes that was my favorite gimmick. XD
I don't know if it makes the subtext any less troubling, but Fluttershy's sense of giving up her life might allude to the myth of Cupid and Psyche where Psyche thought she was getting married off to a horrible monster, someone "feared by the gods" (i.e. the tempestuous emotions of affection, as it turns out) and so considered her life forfeit. One way or another, Beauty&Beast stories resemble the myth of Cupid and Psyche, at least if you read Edith Hamilton's "Mythology".
I agree that the relationship in the BOD was very toxic. But I think in the show, the characters could develop a healthy romantic relationship. A lot happened in the show after this fan fic. Discord and fluttershy's characters grew and learned how to communicate with each other and set boundaries. I think with the time skip at the end of the show, that they would have developed romantic feelings for each other and become a healthy couple. But that's just my head canon.
Honestly, so much fan fiction and popular media had really messed up relationships back then that, considering the time period, age of the author, etc… it’s not super surprising to me that there’s messed up stuff happening. I wasn’t an MLP fan but as a pre-teen/teenager I definitely read and liked (and wrote!) SO MUCH fanfiction that looking back had really toxic relationship traits. As a teen, I think I just had the idea in my head that having ‘darker’ and more ‘dramatic’ aspects proved the characters were TRULY in love- like, the idea that love had to painful or drive you crazy or that jealousy/control was romantic or whatever was so prevalent at the time and I’d never been in an adult relationship so I didn’t really understand why that wouldn’t be romantic.
I think what was missing about the Fluttershy actually starting to like Discord part was that in the Beauty and the Beast film, there was a scene before they start to like each other where the Beast saves Belle from wolves. The scene showed that even though Belle left the castle, therefore having no more use to the Beast, he still defended and protected her from harm. This was proof that the Beast actually cared about Belle. Belle then goes back to the castle and tends to the Beast’s wound. These scenes showed their mutual respect and care for one another before they started falling in love. If The Bride of Discord had a scene like that, I think it would allow a smoother transition into their romantic feelings for one another.
The pony with the propeller hat is meant to be the background pony Screwball, who appeared in Discord's first appearance as a background pony. She was most commonly headcanoned as Discord's daughter 8)
I never understood that at all
I did
She only appears when discord takes over (return of harmony 2)(the cutie remark 2)
Uh no, I believe it is Button Mash since they had a male voice
I love how "dragons age differently" is a concept brought up to excuse Spikes difference in age - but... doesn't do that at all.
It would work if, despite being 10 or whatever, Spike was depicted with an adult mind and body for his kind - on about equal footing with the adults of other species.
But he is never treated as such. Ever.
In fact it is sorta shown to be the OPPOSITE - Spike and Twilight aren't THAT different in age judging by when she hatched his egg, which means Spike is perhaps YOUNGER in relation to his years - like being mentally 10 when he is 15 or 20 or whatever.
For Spike "dragons age differently" makes it WORSE, not better.
but fiction is fiction, weird disturbing shit can be explored within art without it being the end of the world or meaning you're some sort of horrible freak - especially when its being done by individuals having fun rather than huge organizations with massive cultural reach.
This is literary the excuse they use in Inuyasha too. Inuyasha is 1600 years old but due to being frozen and ten demon years equalling one human year, he's fifteen but it doesn't change he's underaged while with Kagome when she's an adult in her 20s sooooo.
@@Topdoggie7 Im guessing the creator wanted to make inuyasha and kagome the same age by adding the demon age thing and then forgot that this means kagome will end up being the one mentally older after a few years
@@yok2239 Still doesn't explain their abuse fetish or the age gap kink going on.
@@Topdoggie7 I will say in the very first episode of the show and chapter of the manga, Kagome says herself that she just turned 14, so the two of them don't actually have an insanely wild age gap since Inuyasha was 15. Everything else about their relationship being unhealthy, though, is something I can agree with
@@soooo2210 Except she's an adult now and he's still by his species, a teenager. In the sequel anime she's almost thirty and I believe he's still 17. Do with that what you will.
If you feel like it, honestly you should cover the sequel Daughter of Discord because oh boy is it interesting with Chrysalis being a weird protective mom. (I guess kinda how she is in season 9?)
I think people ship Fluttercord not for the Beauty and Beast romance aspect of it, but how they grow through "the magic if friendship" contributing to Discord's growth first, and that friendship could more beautifully blossom into a relationship. This speedruns it in a way that...yeah becomes not so good lol. Parts of this fic didn't age well, but I still do udnerstand the ship, and this was a very passionate fan creation.
Fluttercord created the enemies to friends to lovers trope
I would love to see you cover "daughter of discord" it is a direct sequel and it is a lot better atleast in my opinion
I agree
Please I need this 😭
If I were to rewrite this story, I’d make it to where discord would choose twilight as his bride and Fluttershy sacrificing herself in twilights place. (Not only cause she thinks twilights important for equestria, but cause I’d have applejack have a crush on twilight and Fluttershy knows.)
And the story would go on from discord being distant (and less controlling and creepy than the actual story), to opening up to Fluttershy and a romance brewing slowly.
And Apple Jack and twilight would find comfort in each other and end up together.
And the other main 5 would plan on saving her and defeating discord, but he’d set her free anyway. His reasoning would be because he didn’t want their love to be forced, and that he no longer wanted to conquer equestria, that he learned other things are more important to him.
I'd read that
Honestly, no offense to the author, but I'd much rather read this then the actual BOD. Twilight and Applejack is actually a good ship, now that I think about it.
Much better than the controversial Applejack x Spike too.
Applelight shippers ASSEMBLE
I still find it adorable in later openings of the show you can see Discord in the Fluttershy Cottage with his hands clasped, smiling placidly. They might not be an item, but they clearly were good friends!
I didn't expect to see you here.
Honestly, I'm not really sure how I feel about this fanfic. Back when I was first exposed to it, I wasn't even a Fluttercord shipper- and 'watching' this fanfic certainly didn't turn me into one. I'm not a big fan of very many of the tropes used in this story, and the whole thing with Applejack and Spike weirded me out since day one.
Nowadays, I do really enjoy Fluttercord! But really only in the sense where Fluttershy was Discord's first true friend, and it goes from there. I adore their dynamic in the later seasons, and that's really the only way I enjoy this ship.
In this house, we stan an assertive Fluttershy who won't hesitate to call Discord out on his bs!!!
No shade on the author or anything, these are definitely just my personal thoughts lol
Same here. (In fact, the Pony Life shorts doubled down on Fluttercord as well)
Friends to lovers is pretty adorable
Ah yes, one of the first thing I tried really hard to audition for as a teenage voice actor barely learning the ropes. DisneyFanatic2364 very much didn't know what to do with me lmao, I sent her a MP4 file instead of a MP3 and she was very clearly tired of the exact same mistakes people my age were also doing when trying to audition to be a part of the project. Back then I felt really bad because I simply had no idea what I was doing, but nowadays I just look back on those mistakes and just laugh. This is a really introspective analysis of the series, I really love it! thanks so much for reviewing a tiny part of my childhood/teenagehood
would love to see your thoughts on Daughter of Discord,I find it to be a lot better than BoD
YES THAT WOULD BE AMAZING
I've been thinking about just skipping BoD entirely to watch DoD, will I miss anything if I do?
@@silverkip2992 honestly no, I mean you'll miss some build up to a lot of relationships, but it doesn't really focus on them, it focuses on the children coming from those relationships so I feel like you can go in comfortably without watching BoD. But that's just my opinion, I hope you have fun watching them no matter what you do
Nope as someone who watched DOD without seeing BOD you won’t miss anything, it’s mostly an oc story and MUCH better in writing art and sound department
@@silverkip2992 I completely skipped BoD because I wasnt intrested so I watched DoD instead. Its problematic in some spots(appleXspike) but I liked better. Might redesign the characters for fun, I'll have to ask DF first
honestly, I never found myself seeing Fluttershy & discord ever being romantically together.
I only got into it because of a ship child who I fell inlove with *sobbing*
Same
please tell us about the ship child
Which one
The sheer VARIETY that their ship children have is the best, like ofc the pretty pony and the monstrosity have a kid that looks like a vampire and the other is a literal goat 10/10s designs all around
I remember watching the bride of discord videos when I was 9 and I was convinced they actually got together and had that purple kid with the spiny eyes as their child
The “purple kid” is Screwball, and she is the star to the sequel fanfic “Daughter of Discord”
A certain thing I felt was bizarre was when they were trying to make Applejack and Spike a couple. It kinda draws away from the main focus and felt so forced. It’s not the worse piece of fiction but, it needs a lot of work.
Another thing is that I’m a big fan of FlutterCord, so I definitely got wrapped into the concept. It’s kinda cute and it’s pretty fun to see how they worked it into a story.
thank fucking god this is exactly the content i wanna come home to ending the work week
If I remember correctly, the asking "Do you love me?" thing is from the original la belle et la bete story. At least I'm pretty sure I remember reading that when I was like 10. Also if you have the time and are willing, it would be wonderful if you did Daughter of Discord. This was such a fun video to watch!
Yes, I also remember that line being from the original.
It's full La Belle et la Bete.
I am a Fluttercord shipper by the canon series (except season 9, they butchered him). I never really watched this fanfic (only saw episode 2) and HOLY SMOKE what a weird train ride. If you want Fluttercord content, just watched the series. There's a bunch of episodes about them and they did the ship better.
Also if you are looking to make more videos about MLP fanfic, I suggest Princess Trixie Sparkle. It's created by Magpie Pony, iirc a very known member of brony fandom back then. Personally never finished it tho, dropped it when I was 13.
i was a young impressionable kid in the mlp fandom when i came across this story. after watching the series i actually went and wrote my own applejack x spike fanfiction. the way their relationship was portrayed in BoD/DoD genuinely made me think that aj and spike was a really good pairing and that they deserved to be canon in the show (lmao).
of course now i understand how wrong that is and i’m weirded out just thinking about it. but i think it’s important to note that a lot of the team behind this was probably teenagers who didn’t really realize what was wrong with it..
on the other hand it’s very important to be conscious of what you’re putting on the internet especially knowing that your target audience is impressionable kids
I love how you point out the problematic elements of this fic while never demonizing the author, reminding people that back when he wrote the story he was still relatively young. Very respectful.
I CANT TAKE ANY OF THIS SERIOUSLY WITH THE BABY IN THE CORNER LIKE WHAT 😭😭😭
„that’s a little bit of a red flag but we’re going to ignore that”
perfectly describes what relistening to it years later feels like
I auditioned for both this and daughter of discord back in the day. I didn’t get in but still I was obsessed with the fic for a while.
As a FlutterCord shipper, this series was my whole jam back then. I revisited it a few weeks ago, and yeah it didn't age well at all, but I got those nostalgic tingles, and what else could I have asked for.
the fact fluttercord ends up being canon too is crazy
It’s better than the Bride of Discord version. Still wish they had gotten to kiss in the show though.
for discord I would argue John DeLancy just has such a unique voice/line delivery that he's hard to match
A ONE HOUR episode by episode analysis of a niche MLP fandom topic… I am truly blessed on this day. Thanks, Shunks!
I grew up w BoD, I even remember when DF was looking for voices, so a lot of the red flags flew over younger me’s head. BoD is very special to me due to nostalgia and the amount of work put into it but it’s cliché tropes and romanticization of toxic relationships cannot be ignored :( I hope u make a vid on DoD, keep up the good work shunks:)!
“Because obviously as someone who has feelings for a child, she knows what real love is” had me dead I’m sorry 💀
I never watched BoD and really tried one time but it was dull for me and stopped around halfway of the second episode of the audio reading.
But truly my only memorable thing was the sequel to this, Daughter of Discord. It was a fanatic over Screwballs story, that follows after BoD events a few years later. Which follow Screwball & her friends one of which was Screwball's love interest Mossball who was a changeling. I was young to remember any drama happening but I recall a video discussing about the hate or annoyance of people being mad on how long it took to make each episode. Which is just really poor and sad of the community to do that.
I find it interesting how in a production that seemed to be majority women for cast and crew, it was the guy who may have had the strongest objection to the stories depiction of the controlling relationship of a male draconis over a female pony.
Most of the crew are probably proshippers then
@@KaminoKatie proshippers?
shunks is female too bro
Shunks is also a woman
I’m guessing shunks is transgender too since her voice sounds too much like a man lol, no offense and like I mistaken viva reverie as a man once.
The sheer amount of effort put in to BoD aside, every character felt off. Like AJ wouldn't be pining for anyone. She'd throw a bunch of southern jibes, pretend it doesn't matter and take out her frustration by putting more work in to the farm.
It helped her become more sympathetic to Discord's love woes, which led to some pretty nice dialogue between them in one of the last chapters.
@@DrawciaGleam02 yeah, but it still felt way off for the character. If anything, AJ would fawn for a hardworking, honest, and authentic pony who could make her laugh and keep her talking about life throughout the evenings. I don't think she'd do the lovey dovey unless it was really cheesy but only after they established kindled emotions. She'd want somepony who could commit to her passions as well as her committing to theirs, not "oh yeah, he saved me that one time so now we're dating I guess".
Edit: the polar opposite to what AJ would look for in a Stallion would be Flim and Flam.
@@classydays43 Although I have unironically shipped AJ and Flim, because at least those brothers are hard working. More so a changed Flim.
@@MegaAniLinkFan that's just rewriting a character's entire character for the sake of a ship.
Flim wouldn't go abandoning his brother in the same way AJ wouldn't go abandoning the farm. If Film even tried to win over AJ's heart, there would forever be the doubt wiggling in her mind that he's only toying with her to take over the farm. Nopony would match up to what she would look for in a stallion because they have to be honest, hardworking, matter-of-fact, and not afraid to get their hooves dirty which does not describe Flim or Flam at all. And that pony would have to move to the farm and dedicate to the family business. As a family.
Flim would destroy that if it would make an extra bit out of each.
@@classydays43 Well that's what a fanfic is for. You tell a story and change a few things and if you care about your own writing, have it make sense for someone to change or turn a new leaf. Just as you would being the actual writer for the show/movie you're doing a derivative work on.
It's a little hard to rewatch this series because of all the glaring red flags in the main and side relationship. I mean, you can kinda tell what the author was trying to do, but it doesn't work. I can't even buy the last episode's resolution where Fluttershy says she loves Discord. I mean, for all we know she's still experiencing lingering brainwashing effects or something, not to mention they've been living together for only a month and that seems like a shallow amount of time for a romance.
I remember I couldn’t get into BOD but I was really into DOD. You should talk about daughter of discord if you get a chance, I believe the team improved a lot compared to bride of discord.
Oh god, I was OBSESSED with this series as a kid. To think it’s ten years old makes me feel ancient
The biggest problem I have with the story is how it unintentionally normalises toxic or flat out abusive behaviour between Fluttershy and Discord
Putting the whole kidnapping thing aside, there are multiple instances where Discord acts incredibly toxic in the story. He never respects Fluttershy's personal space, he teleported her out of the room and held her in a threatening manner when Fluttershy doesn't want to leave her room, he acts butthurt when she reveals her nightmares to him (also he watches her in her sleep), he looses his temper AGAIN when she rejects him AGAIN, hypnotists her to try to force her go marry him (the whole conformation between them in episode 9 in her room is just really uncomfortable in general) but the worst part of all of this is that its Fluttershy that learns a lesson, not Discord. Yes he does try to apologise in the last episode, but they also have Fluttershy apologising. Apparently the original actor for Discord even left the project because he felt uncomfortable with how the relationship was potrayed, and personally I don't blame him
I just find it really uncomfortable how the story unintentionally normalises toxic relationships and partners, its clear that wasn't the intent and this isn't me encouraging others to harass DF or anyone who worked on the project, I hope they all can learn from this experience and improve as writers/artist/voice actors
Edit: I also wanna bring up the whole AJ and Spike romance because oof, even as a kid I found it really weird, again I don't think SF had any ill intentions but even then it's still really weird. I think instead of AJ having feelings towards Spike, have it where she wants to help Spike realise that he and Rarity aren't gonna work (for obvious reasons) but is struggling because she doesn't want Spikes feelings to get hurt. You could even have it where its revealed in the scene between AJ and Zecora that AJ actually had feelings towards Rarity, but was heartbroken when she was in love with someone else, so she doesn't want Spike to feel that heartbreak
Like a lot of other commenters here, my real connection to this series was the sequel, Daughter of Discord. It was a big part of my childhood and I remember the protagonist, Screwball, being a huge comfort character for me in a really hard time of my development. I can’t say for sure since it’s been so long, but from what I remember, I think the Discord and Flutter pairing was handled better in DoD. I specifically remember what I think was an implication that Discord was consistently forced to sleep on the couch if Flutters was frustrated with him, which I actually like. Balances their power dynamic more and shows that she still has agency and authority in this situation. You definitely don’t have to, and if you do, take your time, but I really would love to see you cover DoD! I never got around to finishing it, but I’m sure revisiting it would be an interesting experience. Only do it if you want to though! Your videos are super high quality and very insightful, looking forward to the Witchcraft video.
I *love* that my hour-long analysis of a decade-old My Little Pony shipping fanfiction made by trans yak brony is sponsored by *RAID SHADOW LEGENDS*
That’s how you know someone made it big
i loved bride of discord as a child, but I looked back at it and realized all the things wrong with it. makes me wonder why no one ever called it out.
Cause it wasn’t necessary, it was a parody of Beauty and the beast where the same thing happens. Especially cause Fluttershy decided to sacrifice herself. Yeah it was creepy but that was kinda the point at the start. Not every ship has to be healthy but that’s my opinion.
@@nikkiralaniakea9527 never said the problem was that the relationship was unhealthy. the problem is that discord never gets called out for it. i enjoy some unhealthy parings but the author picked and chose which problems to focus on, and then acted like everything was solved in the end. and as well, i was talking about the series in general, not the actual romance. of course apple jack and spike are a problem. another personal ick of mine, it doesnt really matter in the grand sceme, is that the author wanted to have heterosexual main 6 ships so bad that they resorted to THAT.
@@batxic you’re right, I don’t remember him being called out, then again everything he did was explained with that he was lonely and that’s why he did bad things. Obviously that does not excuse it but to me it was clear that it was bad. That’s why I didn’t need the author to “call it out”. Also Spike was aged up. He could have been legal despite the age difference due to dragons aging up a lot slower.
@@nikkiralaniakea9527 aging up isnt a excuse, as it was solely done for the purpose of pairing him with apple jack. it isnt a au where spike is a similar age to them. there was a timeskip, so we dont know if aj actually groomed him or not. but it is mentioned she had feelings for him since he saved her in that one episode (the name of it slipped my mind). which means she liked him as a baby..
@@batxic bruh, these aren’t real people. Stop speculating whether she groomed him or not because none of that happened in the story. I personally think that both characters are adults or have very close ages then it’s ok. The author probably just wanted to make sure everyone got paired up.
a weird thing about myself and this series is that i did not watch bride of discord at all, little 7-8 y/o (i cant remember all that well) went STRAIGHT to daughter of discord and i LOVED it
OMG ME TOO! Daughter of discord was my childhood
I've seen a few vids about Bride of Discord and from what I've seen people either ignore AJ X Spike or just completely gloss over it like it is nothing! Glad someone finally said something about it.
The lil faces your sona makes r so cute omg
26:28 This is from the original tale actually. Each night the Beast asked Beauty to marry him, shed say no each time. Depending on the version, her sisters show up and cause his death somehow (no Gaston in the OG, just jealous sisters) she says something along the lines of "I love you" or "I will Marry you" etc. and then the curse is broken.
That stuff was sooo popular back then as well and even today with younger people. There's this trope of it being a flattering image to have your character be so beautiful and desirable that someone wants to take them even against their will. Then we get older and we're like -- OH. That's actually messed up and traumatizing!
32:30 the best way to do the Soarin and RD thing would be have RD be down and missing Fluttershy, but then get the wholesome moments with Soarin when he comes by to cheer her up.
Bride of Discord, Daughter of Discord, and Son-In-Law of Discord changed my brain chemistry because it came out around the same time I started writing fanfic and I was like "this is top tier gold writing and character writing" and looking back it is very very dated but its so nostalgic to remember the scenes and writing and some of the creative ways DisneyFanatic wrote about characters, I especially remember how she wrote Trixie into the story and giving Queen Chrysalis more backstory too
Not gold tier in writing, but gold tier in my heart for internet nostalgia and memory
I like how baby flurry heart is in the corner for half the video
please cover daughter of discord if you'd want because oh boy there was many things wrong with it but its still nostalgic
I believe DF was also heavily inspired by Phantom of the Opera. They even used one of the songs in the story albeit as a parody. As a person who was also into POTO at a young age, it did give me a messed up outlook on relationships and I’m sure with DF as well. I remember the fandom having a weird obsession with Discord ships paralleling the Phantom of the Opera’s Christine and The Phantom. Even as a kid on dA I still found it sort of weird though.
which song omg?? poto is my obsession
@@heneedsloveoooh I believe it’s just the song “Phantom of the Opera”. It might be “Music of the Night” tho. Sorry I didn’t see this comment til now lol.
"Chaos of the Night" was the totally original name I could come up with for the parody XD
About the whole “Discord asking Fluttershy if she loves him every night” I think that’s borrowed from one of the older versions of Beauty and the Beast (pre-Disney) I remember watching a TikTok series on it and that same thing happens.
This is the official video where Discord’s VA discusses how he hasn’t liked Fluttershy and Discord’s relationships since episode 5: ua-cam.com/video/84LU3RMKrg4/v-deo.html
doesn't discords va hate literally everything about mlp and the fandom or am I misremembering 😭
@@xxscribbledragonxx9744 idk watch the vid
@@Pinkiepiefan448 I'm pretty sure they were referring to the actual Discord VA hating the show.
@@Top10Dylan wait why though???
BigApplePie?? That might be why he stopped voicing Discord…
Thank you for talking about this! I've heard about this but was nervous to look it up.
Also, the person who did the artwork of Discord wrapping around Fluttershy to protect her is my favorite. Like that particular piece is awesome.
I'm so glad the canon friendshipy soft slow relationship Flutters and Discord exists.
I remember loving this back in the day and I was there for every upload of the audio drama of DOD. I even read some of Son-in-Law of Discord when I was supposed to be sleeping. Good times!
30:21 “it’s not even that good! it’s a parody of On My Own from Les Mis” i was NOT expecting that and it sent me over the edge oh my GODDDD
it took me the first 30 seconds of the ad read to realize it wasnt a bit