This entire game is Titus dealing with his squads hissy fits I love it. The game does a good job portraying the doubt and strains of their relationship
Most of the Primaris Space Marines were cryogenically frozen 10,000 years ago as part of the Primaris program, started by Roboute Guilliman after the Second Founding and the Horus Heresy at the end of the 31st millennium. Marines like Chairon and Gadriel had been kept in stasis for 10,000 years until the program was ready to be implemented.
So I thought it was like misinterpreting voice commands (remember AdMech speak binary code) as chants or just encouraging people to perform maintainence regulary (like holy oil might be lubricants and rituals are timing).
Power of belief in a setting where it very much gives real power. That, and a lot of machines are designed with these kind of rituals being legitimate authorization and activation codes. A sensor picking up burning incense or whatnot is basically the on button.
@@powerist209 Sometimes it is, but it's explicit in lore that while some Machine Spirits are biological computers, others are actual psychic constructs inhabiting the machines that humans make, daemons of the Omnissiah essentially. Even physical machine spirits have a psychic component - which is why they can resist Chaos while machinery without a machine spirit or the equivalent cannot. At worst, the Mechanicum's praying practices are not as universally useful as they'd like to think, but they are absolutely correct in their belief that most if not all human technology has a spiritual intelligence of its own that should be respected and cared for if you want the machinery to work right. This is especially true of old and particularly powerful machine spirits like those of archaotech vehicles or titans, which tend to be very cranky and arrogant and will absolutely hurt their users or flat out refuse to work if not appeased.
@@masterofThardus like what happened to that Imperator princep on armageddon with that titan who fell when the machine spirit of her titan was turning her brain into soup and they got shot by an ork Titan...
Gives me gears of war vibes pretty nice detail to the story and the chaos fight I like how the Tyranids where swept aside by the true battle humanity is fighting, but if the necrons where able to awaken I suspect both the tyranids and necrons would steal the show, especially humanity and chaos having a terrible time, hopefully the battles to come could detail the horrors of the death korp krieg
Cut scenes are very well done. by the looks of things, the game play will be quite good. Look forward to seeing more game play clips and if possible I will be purchasing the game.
The voice of the Chaplain (Leandros) sounds more like the version heard in one of the trailers. The other videos I've seen show the Chaplain with a slightly different voice. Honestly, I prefer the version heard in this video. Aside from that, I hope that if there is another Space Marine game, we get to see Roboute Guilliman. It would be cool to see some other Primarchs (both loyalist and traitor) appear, too. I would love to see a game set during the Horus Heresy as well.
53:00 He was having Leondros flashbacks here, until he finished with "...but I look forward to it." I think this was a small part of Titus' faith in his brothers being restored.
I hear you but there is actually allot of missing context without some of the radio messages that you get in the gameplay. Like when Titus hits the planet surface after falling from the Thunderhawk you get a better feeling for his mission and where his battle brothers are.
More than likely the voice at the end of the game is The God Emperor of Mankind: 1. Titus has an unusual resistance to the warp as seen in the previous game, and the unfortunate cause of his accusation of heresy and near century of imprisonment by the Inquisition and service with the Deathwatch. It is unlikely he is a Blank, which is also another way that 'regular' non blessed humans (yes he is a space marine and not regular but in this context i refer to those born with unnatural warp resistance or blessed by the emperor himself) can resist the warp. Yet being a blank would mean he would make essentially everyone around him incredibly uneasy (a blank is esentially an anti psyker and does not possess a soul) at best, and at worst he would be anathema to even be in proximity to, which he is not, as well as the fact demons avoid blanks like the plague, which has also not been the case in both games - this points to another alternative: Titus has been blessed by The Emperor. 2. if it were the primarch (which is unlikely as he not a known psyker and cannot communicate with Titus without being physically there), he would have likely referred to him as 'my son' or 'son of macragge' 3. If it were Calgar, he has always referred to Titus by name, or the typical space marine moniker: brother. It must be the Big E, he says 'rise, Son of Guilliman', not any of the above, and his warp resistance must be from somewhere. Sidenote: Named character and 'ordinary' humans have been able to posses resistance to the warp due to extreme willpower and mental fortitude, so this could be the case as well, but I think GW and Sabre have done this all purposefully, I sense a big reveal and story coming soon.... The Emperor Protects.
If they add more Regiments and even different Factions with multiple story’s 1 game with Multiple Free story’s and maybe hit it with a few dlcs We might see a active 500k player for 2 years
All they would have to do is add in multiple campaigns like battlefield did with battlefield one. Something like that but with different factions and regiments. It would be the perfect game.
@@scenczyk1429 tho it would be awesome to see a battlefront type of game in warhammer Orks vs Space marines/ other regiments And ur able to choose Waht u are. like: Honor Guard : 250 points ( limit 10 in match) dreadnought : 500 points ( limit 5 in match) Imperial Knight: 1000 points (limit 5 in match) Roboute Guilliman : 2000-4000 points (limited to only 1 in match) Orks Ork Chieftain : 250 points (limit 10 in match ) Killa kans : 500 points (limit 5 in match) Deff Dreads : 1000 points (limit 5 in match) Ghazghkull Mag : 2000-4000 points. (Limit 1) Like that and more
All they gotta do now is operations where we play through small storylines of other chapters dark angels imperial fist blood angels and so on thats millions in profit
Well, it’s slightly more nuanced than that. There was an RTS agreement with GW, but the latter pulled out (For whatever reason) and Bliz kept going, just needing to change the design a bit more.
"There are some who would see you sent back to the Inquisition." Dude wakes up after Rubicon Primaris and first thing he says is "I must get back to the Watch Fortress". Being sent back to the Inquisition doesn't bother him.
The game looks great, but it's a bit lazy narratively to have yet another story where the tyranids are just background noise, when I first saw images of this game I really hoped for them to be the actual threat.
@@shiroamakusa8075 The need for a "named" antagonist is overplayed and tiresome. You can have a faceless nemesis. And not that WH40k have plenty of deep personalities anyways, even the more detailed ones are just a bunch of copy pasted daddy issues.
@@shiroamakusa8075 Tyranids were the primary antagonists in Dawn of war 2, and the story didn't suffer for it, you just have to focus on the human elements dealing with them, and it can be used to create a lot of drama between the factions facing a system ending threat.
@@arath4042 I forgot about that, I always get confused with the Chaos Rising expansion. Being a faction hard to portrait is not an excuse to the role the play more often than not as background noise.
tl;dr he's an asshole who snitched on you to the inquisition in the first game. EVERYONE hates Leandros and its pretty justified IMO. Actual Explanation: In the first game (roughly 100 years ago) Leandros was a new recruit to the Ultramarines and apart of your squad. He looked up to Titus as a role model since he already made a name for himself, plus Leandros also quoted the Codex Astartes (basically a book that tells you how a space marine should operate) super often. Titus takes the Codex as a guideline, but Leandros takes it as a Bible that should be followed to the letter. However since Titus was exposed to the Artifact in the first game and survived (this is why he knows the dangers of it and why he wanted it destroyed), Leandros thought he was corrupted by Chaos and reported him to the Inquisition, who in the end gave Titus an ultimatum of either condemning everyone around him or going with the inquisition to be interrogated. Leandros basically snitched on his brother in arms, which is ironic when he quotes the Codex so much because it says IN the codex that if you think a fellow space marine is heretical, that you report it to the chapter master first (Calgar in this case), not the inquisition. Meaning that he failed to uphold even his own standards. His actions forced Titus to get tortured, interrogated and railroaded into the deathwatch (an anti-xenos organization that is under the jurisdiction of the Inquisition. Its made up of random members of all space marine chapters) for nearly a century. Titus found this whole situation a shame on his position as a member of the Ultramarines, so he (of his own choice) became a Blackshield (a space marine who gives up his colors and insignia of his chapter) as punishment. The only reason Titus even got the chance to join the deathwatch was because the inquisitor who was in charge of interrogating him got killed, so his work got pawned off to another inquisitor who gave Titus a chance. In this game it looks like Leandros became a Chaplin of Titus's company (in layman's terms, this makes him akin to a religious commissar where he looks after the wellbeing and spiritual needs of the chapter members while being outside of the normal chain of command. But if required, he can take control of the company itself if there is no direct leadership avaliable.) Overall its fitting for his character who has a giant stick up his ass and follows the rules to the T.
Damn it was epic indeed. I wonder if gameplay expeirence matches the visuals. On other hand, imagine the story told with inclusion of female Astartes. Perhaps not, but I fear there would be no real brotherhood in action then, just a drama with sexual undertones. Not real Warkammer 40K. No one needs females Marines, not even Custodies. Also, don't you ever trust those Mechanicus freaks.
What we have is solid, but because some senior douchey executive insisted that this be a Multi-Player cash grab for the failed PS5 online service bereft of games, we only get a mere taster of what could have been a much better game. Everyone agrees that the campaign is rushed, curtailed, short, has pacing issues, lack of mods and upgrades, and really needed another story based upon a completely different character other than this stiff stolid stoic. We could have had it. But missed out on it just so we can pay to play.
The opening scene on the command center when titus reports to his captain. When the sargeant question the captains orders and on the dropship the black dude questioning the background of his new lieutenant is completely out of place. An ultramarine should follow orders with out questions. The chain of command should never be questioned. If high command considers titus worthy of leading their squad, then they should accept it. Doing otherwise is disloyal to ultramarine chapter. They story writers should be fired. I'm not sure I want to continue watching this garbage when the opening scene destroys what an ultramarine should be.
He is a random person from a random background who they know nothing about, suddenly being put in charge of their squad and using very unorthodox tactics/methods that they aren’t used to. Of course they’re going to be curious about his background and question him. They’re still human. At no point do they go against the chain of command or disobey order, they merely state their issues and when one of them feels they can’t be settled, informs him that he’ll request to be put on a different squad once the mission is over.
@@nevermore7285 I can see your point for like the imperial guard. But astartes training and indoctrination would never voice such doubts. They would watch their new brother combat performance first before voicing any doubts.
Space Marine III: Titus is put to the trials of the Grey Knights. With no Psycher powers. Titus is just a powerful hammer agains the forces of Chaos.
Titus becoming a Grey Knight would be bonkers
Titus will face the Eldar soon.
@@superfrycook6360 To kill them right ?
@@gipsyh1963 yes.
Nope. He will be getting Assistant from them to attack the Chaos of nurgle.
This entire game is Titus dealing with his squads hissy fits I love it. The game does a good job portraying the doubt and strains of their relationship
Guilliman: I hereby revoke the codex astartes.
Npc as ultramarine: the codex astartes does not support this action.
Guilliman: bitch I wrote the book my self
Leandros tattles to the inquisition again. Receives promotion.
@@Larken42 promoted to primarch of the snitch marines legion
@@snowdrop9810 too high. Chapter Master.
Leandros: The Codex says we can't do that!
The Big E: WELL I CAN'T READ!
49:50
So Chairon is like 10,000+ years old? Betrayal at Calth was 30k era. This is 40k, how the hell is Chairon still alive?
He's one of the original primaris Cawl had in storage on Mars
@@DauntlessProductionz ohhh thats a very nice detail they added
@@Tommybotham Catch up.
Most of the Primaris Space Marines were cryogenically frozen 10,000 years ago as part of the Primaris program, started by Roboute Guilliman after the Second Founding and the Horus Heresy at the end of the 31st millennium.
Marines like Chairon and Gadriel had been kept in stasis for 10,000 years until the program was ready to be implemented.
24:10
A lot of other factions like to go, "Silly humans praying at machines like shamans," and then you see that it actually works. lol
So I thought it was like misinterpreting voice commands (remember AdMech speak binary code) as chants or just encouraging people to perform maintainence regulary (like holy oil might be lubricants and rituals are timing).
Power of belief in a setting where it very much gives real power. That, and a lot of machines are designed with these kind of rituals being legitimate authorization and activation codes. A sensor picking up burning incense or whatnot is basically the on button.
Machine Spirit - AI
It's how they skirt the rules
He's placating an AI who is pleased he's praying to it.
@@powerist209 Sometimes it is, but it's explicit in lore that while some Machine Spirits are biological computers, others are actual psychic constructs inhabiting the machines that humans make, daemons of the Omnissiah essentially. Even physical machine spirits have a psychic component - which is why they can resist Chaos while machinery without a machine spirit or the equivalent cannot. At worst, the Mechanicum's praying practices are not as universally useful as they'd like to think, but they are absolutely correct in their belief that most if not all human technology has a spiritual intelligence of its own that should be respected and cared for if you want the machinery to work right. This is especially true of old and particularly powerful machine spirits like those of archaotech vehicles or titans, which tend to be very cranky and arrogant and will absolutely hurt their users or flat out refuse to work if not appeased.
@@masterofThardus like what happened to that Imperator princep on armageddon with that titan who fell when the machine spirit of her titan was turning her brain into soup and they got shot by an ork Titan...
Gives me gears of war vibes pretty nice detail to the story and the chaos fight I like how the Tyranids where swept aside by the true battle humanity is fighting, but if the necrons where able to awaken I suspect both the tyranids and necrons would steal the show, especially humanity and chaos having a terrible time, hopefully the battles to come could detail the horrors of the death korp krieg
Warhammer 40K is just a peak male fantasy
A whole lotta HELL YEAH action ngl
Perfection
Always has been, brother.
This game pumps testosterone. Most of the games now are political adding delusional genders. I hope this won’t be tainted.
Cut scenes are very well done. by the looks of things, the game play will be quite good. Look forward to seeing more game play clips and if possible I will be purchasing the game.
Appreciate you not slapping a watermark on the video. Came here instead of the bigcorps
The voice of the Chaplain (Leandros) sounds more like the version heard in one of the trailers. The other videos I've seen show the Chaplain with a slightly different voice. Honestly, I prefer the version heard in this video. Aside from that, I hope that if there is another Space Marine game, we get to see Roboute Guilliman. It would be cool to see some other Primarchs (both loyalist and traitor) appear, too. I would love to see a game set during the Horus Heresy as well.
thanks for this most people add game play i dont want that only cutscenes thankyou!!
1:05:13 accurate subtitles haha.
Titus: "I need more bolter ammo"
Acheran: "I can spare three men"
1:10:03 when you're absolutely sick and tired of the villains monologuing
i don’t get it
1:10:14 is that the emperor speaking?
Yes, it is that or HERESAY!
OH SHIT
53:00 He was having Leondros flashbacks here, until he finished with "...but I look forward to it."
I think this was a small part of Titus' faith in his brothers being restored.
Titus, Gadriel and Chairon!! ⚔️💀🔥
1:06:53
"I CAST FIST!"
Would be hilarious if purple turned green obelisks would wake up a necron tomb world
If there’s a third faction introduced in dlc, I would be shocked if it was anything but Necrons.
31:11 All that armor and training and augmentations and he's killed that easily?
Hey, a lasgun shot can drop an astartes too 😂
14:14 " Copy that sir " just shows how greatly respect to this major
The irony is in the cinematics the bolters have more are effective damage than in the game...Take care brothers..
when I heard Chairon say traitors you will burn to thousand son's traitors I laughed and said "not much to burn when they're all dust and echoes"
1:02:48 is the start of the big battle
I hear you but there is actually allot of missing context without some of the radio messages that you get in the gameplay. Like when Titus hits the planet surface after falling from the Thunderhawk you get a better feeling for his mission and where his battle brothers are.
More than likely the voice at the end of the game is The God Emperor of Mankind:
1. Titus has an unusual resistance to the warp as seen in the previous game, and the unfortunate cause of his accusation of heresy and near century of imprisonment by the Inquisition and service with the Deathwatch. It is unlikely he is a Blank, which is also another way that 'regular' non blessed humans (yes he is a space marine and not regular but in this context i refer to those born with unnatural warp resistance or blessed by the emperor himself) can resist the warp. Yet being a blank would mean he would make essentially everyone around him incredibly uneasy (a blank is esentially an anti psyker and does not possess a soul) at best, and at worst he would be anathema to even be in proximity to, which he is not, as well as the fact demons avoid blanks like the plague, which has also not been the case in both games - this points to another alternative: Titus has been blessed by The Emperor.
2. if it were the primarch (which is unlikely as he not a known psyker and cannot communicate with Titus without being physically there), he would have likely referred to him as 'my son' or 'son of macragge'
3. If it were Calgar, he has always referred to Titus by name, or the typical space marine moniker: brother.
It must be the Big E, he says 'rise, Son of Guilliman', not any of the above, and his warp resistance must be from somewhere.
Sidenote: Named character and 'ordinary' humans have been able to posses resistance to the warp due to extreme willpower and mental fortitude, so this could be the case as well, but I think GW and Sabre have done this all purposefully, I sense a big reveal and story coming soon....
The Emperor Protects.
1:05:14 best in game dialogue ever
Is that one of those marines from the chapter of the damned at 36:37 if so that’s badass
You know what we need? Titus and Abelard uniting aganist the forces of chaos! Together they will end the chaos in a weekend!
If they add more Regiments and even different Factions with multiple story’s
1 game with Multiple Free story’s and maybe hit it with a few dlcs
We might see a active 500k player for 2 years
A warhammer 40k with a gameplay of Star Wars battlefront would be crazy
All they would have to do is add in multiple campaigns like battlefield did with battlefield one. Something like that but with different factions and regiments. It would be the perfect game.
@@jiinnscorner5496 a Competitive 40v40 battle (only players) would be insane
Nah, I reckon they'd do well to make something more along the lines of helldivers
@@scenczyk1429 tho it would be awesome to see a battlefront type of game in warhammer
Orks vs Space marines/ other regiments
And ur able to choose Waht u are. like:
Honor Guard : 250 points ( limit 10 in match)
dreadnought : 500 points ( limit 5 in match)
Imperial Knight: 1000 points (limit 5 in match)
Roboute Guilliman : 2000-4000 points (limited to only 1 in match)
Orks
Ork Chieftain : 250 points (limit 10 in match )
Killa kans : 500 points (limit 5 in match)
Deff Dreads : 1000 points (limit 5 in match)
Ghazghkull Mag : 2000-4000 points. (Limit 1)
Like that and more
note to self if i ever wake up in the 40K universe live on Absolute strategic value planets
what a twist man at the very end omg
All they gotta do now is operations where we play through small storylines of other chapters dark angels imperial fist blood angels and so on thats millions in profit
Game of the year? I think so too.
Titus be like: "subs_story_last_stand_obelisk_titus_005a"
😂😂😂
Ready for Ingenious movie... to start WARHAMMER
There is no way a Death Watch marine would be bested by a mere lone Tyranid Warrior.
Looking by its size I think it is a hive tyrant
It was a Carnifex not hive tyrant.
@1:05:14 Subtitle reads: "subs_story_last_stand_obelisk_titus_005a"
Bet Leandros ia thinking "hmmmm wraith of chapter master, i hope he doesnt find out i called the inquisition" 😂
All hail to Emperor and his Angels of Death!
Titus looking good in Ultramarine livery.
52:52 space marine 1 reference
33:20 😢 Hawk Boi…
warhammer + need this fk movie with this lvl
i like how tyranids are basicly zerg but 1000 times cooler and more menacing (yes I know bliz stole the idea)
Well, it’s slightly more nuanced than that.
There was an RTS agreement with GW, but the latter pulled out (For whatever reason) and Bliz kept going, just needing to change the design a bit more.
Now this Cutscenes in one Video lol I got tired of seeing Full Gameplay 😂
You missed some in Imurah death scene .
"There are some who would see you sent back to the Inquisition."
Dude wakes up after Rubicon Primaris and first thing he says is "I must get back to the Watch Fortress". Being sent back to the Inquisition doesn't bother him.
BEST ADVANCE O F XENOS AGAINSTDEATHWATCH.
1:05:14
subs_story_last_stand_obelisk_titus_005a
28:30 what happened to the sergeant
1:06:45 does anyone know who this guy was?
LEANDROS BAABBBYYYY!!!
leandros needs to die he was a pussy in 40k spacemarines
subs_story_last_stand_obelisk_titus_005a
No words were truer spoken
1:06:37 Necron Lords Relics Powers, time warp??
Why no helmets for the heroes of the story???
so you can see the character designs. they do a similar thing in movies so that the actors’ faces are clearly on the screen.
1:05:14 dialogue failed
The game looks great, but it's a bit lazy narratively to have yet another story where the tyranids are just background noise, when I first saw images of this game I really hoped for them to be the actual threat.
There's very little personality to the Tyranids, so they make for bad primary antagonists.
@@shiroamakusa8075 The need for a "named" antagonist is overplayed and tiresome. You can have a faceless nemesis. And not that WH40k have plenty of deep personalities anyways, even the more detailed ones are just a bunch of copy pasted daddy issues.
@@shiroamakusa8075 Tyranids were the primary antagonists in Dawn of war 2, and the story didn't suffer for it, you just have to focus on the human elements dealing with them, and it can be used to create a lot of drama between the factions facing a system ending threat.
@@arath4042 I forgot about that, I always get confused with the Chaos Rising expansion. Being a faction hard to portrait is not an excuse to the role the play more often than not as background noise.
They’re the same as the orcs from the first game. They are the inital main threat, then Chaos takes over.
I’m new. Who the fk is Leandros??
tl;dr he's an asshole who snitched on you to the inquisition in the first game. EVERYONE hates Leandros and its pretty justified IMO.
Actual Explanation:
In the first game (roughly 100 years ago) Leandros was a new recruit to the Ultramarines and apart of your squad. He looked up to Titus as a role model since he already made a name for himself, plus Leandros also quoted the Codex Astartes (basically a book that tells you how a space marine should operate) super often. Titus takes the Codex as a guideline, but Leandros takes it as a Bible that should be followed to the letter.
However since Titus was exposed to the Artifact in the first game and survived (this is why he knows the dangers of it and why he wanted it destroyed), Leandros thought he was corrupted by Chaos and reported him to the Inquisition, who in the end gave Titus an ultimatum of either condemning everyone around him or going with the inquisition to be interrogated.
Leandros basically snitched on his brother in arms, which is ironic when he quotes the Codex so much because it says IN the codex that if you think a fellow space marine is heretical, that you report it to the chapter master first (Calgar in this case), not the inquisition. Meaning that he failed to uphold even his own standards.
His actions forced Titus to get tortured, interrogated and railroaded into the deathwatch (an anti-xenos organization that is under the jurisdiction of the Inquisition. Its made up of random members of all space marine chapters) for nearly a century. Titus found this whole situation a shame on his position as a member of the Ultramarines, so he (of his own choice) became a Blackshield (a space marine who gives up his colors and insignia of his chapter) as punishment. The only reason Titus even got the chance to join the deathwatch was because the inquisitor who was in charge of interrogating him got killed, so his work got pawned off to another inquisitor who gave Titus a chance.
In this game it looks like Leandros became a Chaplin of Titus's company (in layman's terms, this makes him akin to a religious commissar where he looks after the wellbeing and spiritual needs of the chapter members while being outside of the normal chain of command. But if required, he can take control of the company itself if there is no direct leadership avaliable.) Overall its fitting for his character who has a giant stick up his ass and follows the rules to the T.
@@IzBruJIN what an ahole
Why is noone wearing their helmets? Its not cool at all.
rule in movie/game making: never cover the main characters.
It’s an option in game, so this person has helmets turned off
Damn it was epic indeed. I wonder if gameplay expeirence matches the visuals.
On other hand, imagine the story told with inclusion of female Astartes. Perhaps not, but I fear there would be no real brotherhood in action then, just a drama with sexual undertones. Not real Warkammer 40K. No one needs females Marines, not even Custodies.
Also, don't you ever trust those Mechanicus freaks.
What we have is solid, but because some senior douchey executive insisted that this be a Multi-Player cash grab for the failed PS5 online service bereft of games, we only get a mere taster of what could have been a much better game. Everyone agrees that the campaign is rushed, curtailed, short, has pacing issues, lack of mods and upgrades, and really needed another story based upon a completely different character other than this stiff stolid stoic. We could have had it. But missed out on it just so we can pay to play.
The opening scene on the command center when titus reports to his captain. When the sargeant question the captains orders and on the dropship the black dude questioning the background of his new lieutenant is completely out of place. An ultramarine should follow orders with out questions. The chain of command should never be questioned. If high command considers titus worthy of leading their squad, then they should accept it. Doing otherwise is disloyal to ultramarine chapter. They story writers should be fired. I'm not sure I want to continue watching this garbage when the opening scene destroys what an ultramarine should be.
He is a random person from a random background who they know nothing about, suddenly being put in charge of their squad and using very unorthodox tactics/methods that they aren’t used to. Of course they’re going to be curious about his background and question him. They’re still human. At no point do they go against the chain of command or disobey order, they merely state their issues and when one of them feels they can’t be settled, informs him that he’ll request to be put on a different squad once the mission is over.
@@nevermore7285 I can see your point for like the imperial guard. But astartes training and indoctrination would never voice such doubts. They would watch their new brother combat performance first before voicing any doubts.
@@Tony-u7c7iOk, Leandros..
Hold on now.....I smell the taint of the DEI-WARP , a female ??!! NO the DEI workshop ...jeez what next .
Jackson Susan Brown Brenda Moore Nancy