Let's Hear It From The Boys | A Genspect Debrief with Alasdair, Ritchie, & Corinna
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- Опубліковано 13 вер 2024
- Alasdair Gunn (alias Angus Fox) and I sit down with Corinna Cohn and Ritchie Herron to discuss the Genspect Killarney conference, and how we can best help boys who are in gender trouble.
genspect.org
Ritchie: / tullipr
Ritchie's channel: / @tullipr
Corinna: / heterodorx
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Ritchie has the strength of character to say what he means and holding his ground. He won’t be railroaded into submission ever again. It’s inspiring
I know a careful, nuanced approach has many benefits but... God, I so appreciate Ritchie's take-no-prisoners attitude when it comes to standing up for sensitive boys when so many, even in the GC tribe, would prefer to ignore them, monster them or dismissively tell them to "man up". Ritchie, the battered, bruised and hurt little lad that still lives inside me somewhere always feels a little better for hearing you speak. Thank you.
My Dad is also a sensitive man. I never saw his masculinity as being any lesser than other kinds.
Yup, both Ritchie and Corrina had such insightful commentary that is really important to understand.
Really good discussion. As a Mother with an adult son caught up in this, I truly appreciate the focus on males. Many things Ritchie said
were/are things that occured in my son's past. My heart is shattered 💔
Me too!😢💔
Any support groups for moms who are NOT supporting their mtf sons?
@@MoreSweedishFish Yes! PITT
Pittsburg College comes up when I Google that acronym
@@MoreSweedishFish do you mean for moms who are supporting their sons by NOT supporting medical transition?
That's so interesting to hear Richie mention sibling abuse being a prevalent issue among trans/detrans people. It rings very true for someone i know...
He was an overweight and nerdy boy, his siblings were absolutely vile to him and quite frankly his whole family including the parents seemed rather embarrassed of him. He wasn't popular at school either. Meanwhile his sister was very attractive, happy, and well liked by everyone. It's been no mystery to me why he ended up deciding he'd rather be someone completely different, and he'd rather be a girl.
It breaks my heart that not everyone gets the unconditional love they need from their families. All children deserve that.
I love and appreciate that Corrina is fighting for health care for detransitioners’ needs. That would help create some numbers for how many people are detransitioning if the insurance companies had records of who requested those services.
Precisely! Especially considering that for those who have lost their gonads and have no ability to produce their own hormones, but have detransitioned, currently are still being classed as "trans" on their paperwork because they cannot get necessary hrt otherwise.
Go, Ritchie! Bring the fire! Great discussion. I so regret not going to the conference, but I'll be there in November and hope to meet up with all of you in person finally.
I love the way Benjamin will just nonchalantly keep the preamble and people always have to ask if they've started.
Alasdair *gets me*.
The four of you are such wonderful people to listen to! You are so insightful in different ways.
Can't wait for your book Ritchie.
Ritchie makes soooo many excellent points. Espcially appreciating the one he brings up around "nerd" culture and the points made by Benjamin and discussion that follows at 1:06:30, and Bravo to Corrinna for recognizing and insisting that "strong and nurturing" are NOT opposite traits but ones which would facilitate a traditionally masculine fathers engagement with their non stereotypically "masculine" sons, by accepting them as men, rather than rejecting them simply because they are different kind of men from themselves. 1:10:00
It's so reminiscent of the psychosurgery in the USA and UK in the 1950s and 1960s. Uncontrolled experimental surgery on vulnerable people (often very young), curing nothing, inflicting unpredictable and irreversible damage, making unsubstantiated claims of its safety and effectiveness, denying the consequences.
This was a great discussion. As a woman with two daughters, I worry an awful lot about the female side of this discussion, but it does seem like there's a void for the male side. I hear about AGP a LOT, but I have wondered just HOW much that reflects all that is going on with the boys? I have also have a son who I am NOT worried about in regards to transitioning (he's had friends transition and seems to have pretty strong sentiments against it), but what if I'm wrong and he gets hooked in? Where would I go to help HIM? I'm so glad to hear more conversation about this.
Also, as a former regular at Ren Fairs, I loved Corinna's hat. 😊
Keep him away from pornography.
Happy to hear that you will kick some asses Richie
I really like the idea of Ritchie's book it could really speak to some people who need to hear his perspectives
“The Body Keeps The Score” by Bessel Van Der Kolk is essential reading for trauma and PTSD because his research shows, trauma is individually experienced and there is no one measurable standard.
My daughter is a therapist who works with EMDR. There are international associations of EMDR and thousands of practitioners world-wide. Look into it.... amazing results with all sorts of trauma problems of every kind. Great podcast, as always, Benjamin!!
Keep on speaking to eachother and letting us listen in. One conversation at a time ❤️
I think Richie is right in saying that, 'This works for some' is the thin end of the wedge. There is no such thing as gender in biology. There are two sexes, female and male. This is *determined* at conception and it cannot be changed. There are 'butch' girls and women, and 'camp' boys and men. Some of them may be gay, some not. So what? Does it have to be said yet again? Gender Ideology is essentialist, therefore sexist, misogynist, homophobic. It is also, manifestly, a grave danger to children. Why is it allowed?
Well said!!!
That would be FAB!!
Regarding the question wether it is ethical to mess up a persons healthy body should not be what age the person has to be to make the decition, but is it ethical for surgeons and endocrinologists to turn healthy individuals into lifelong patients. What happened to the hippocratic oath?
People overlook that when they want to keep their job and status..🥺
Alasdair is amazing. ❤
I really enjoyed watching this. So many things going through my mind about it. I don't have anything super intelligent to add at this moment but I definately think that providing an alternative model of "care" is a brilliant idea if it is allowed to go ahead. From that I mean that doctors , teachers, organisations etc are not forced to go along with the affimation model . Personally I think that social media is highly correlated with the issue of young transitioners who spend time in online communities amongst their peers and who have thousands of online interactions a whole life online of which their parents are unaware. Also gender non conforming individuals who are subjected to bullying are very much at risk of seeing transition as a solution to their issues, and an alternative source of support is very much needed.
Ritchie - would you go into UK secondary schools and do talks? Our teenagers need to hear to what you have to say. I honestly can't thank you enough for calling this out. My daughter is caught up in this she's only 14, she totally thinks she's "born" in the wrong body.
To put it simply, if Insurance Companies are going to bankroll iatrogenic harms, then they should also pay to address the mess they helped to make of someone's body and health. Alasdair's point about even trans people suffering complications from a botched surgery, are kicked to the curb financially by the institutions that were only too ready to pay for the that surgery in the first place. I really do not think even the most ideologically committed transgender activist thinks that those whose rights they champion would be sanguine about corporate insurance and the medical establishment leaving those failed by their surgeons and drugs to a lifetime of chronic UTIs and having to wear adult diapers.
Correct Richie, the fathers may well not be weak men but strong, masculine men and for that matter, the mothers may not be mollycoddling but hard working, loving and discerning women. But you ask any mother who gives birth to a couple of children and she will tell you that each infant is born with “a nature” all its own, already obvious. And every child is different from every other even often in the case of siblings and twins. So the “strong father” may be present but the child and its nature, may not identify with that father or the child and it’s nature may not identify with that mother. Add into the mix all the influences you describe and it comes back to a truth I learned years ago; guard your children and hold them fast against going over to their peer group and other influencers whereby making those the arbiters of what to be and what to do instead of you the parent. That is a dangerous place for the child because they are then being led and said by other immature and inexperienced kids. And when it comes down to social media, if you don’t actively control their access and know what they are watching, you are abandoning them to pernicious ideas from bad actors as well as exploiters of all hues. And holding onto them is a hard and daily task that requires endless efforts at vigilant child rearing. It’s not like 40 or 50 years ago, before mobile phones and social media. Some parents are better at it than others but most do their best but are bewildered and wobble and lose authority in their children’s eyes. After which, defeat beckons.
In progressive Oregon it’s mandated to pay for transition but NOT detransition. If it’s all fluid why not cover any mood at any time???? Force insurance to pay out the ass. Then they’ll stop the insanity of allowing it in the first place. Thoughts?
They should have to pay for complications and follow ups..which could be detransion
@@helendancelot , yes they should ...
Amazing group! Thanks
The 'weak father (possibly also overbearing mother)' hypothesis: this used to be put forward as a (or possibly the) cause of homosexuality. No evidence for this could be found.
Love Richie ❤
Re the discussion of rodg in boys and cause of male trans identity I would suggest that for both girls and boys that there are many roads to Rome and whilst trans is the result there are multiple causes - which is why it is hard to tackle.
A, "perfect escape" - reckon Richie is on to something there.
Excellent conversation!
Interesting to hear Zucker was caught without any answers.
Thank you Allister for your commitment to WPATH in November
Alasdair, Ritchie and Corinna and Mr. Benjamin in his Ford Raptor Tribute fedora hat....'Owdy, guvna 🕵
that hat preexisted that marketing campaign! Retconning is a sin best left to cats in chats.
@@miroirs-jumeaux .. Mr. Benjamin has super powers! He is able to travel back in time and coop an item, so it had NEVER been invented yet. He is a crafty one, that Benjamin 😼
Alasdair is gradually turning me gay.
LOL!!
Looking forward to your book Ritchie! ❤❤
19:05 brilliant insight, though it's definitely not the hero's journey; it's a different myth. Hopefully someone will identify it soon so these people can start living in accordance with their true myth instead of a politicized shadow of it...
Professionals no longer allowed to use their professional judgement. That pretty much sums up the problem.
Just a thought... Wouldn't a hotline be a relatively small way to start?
Love all of them!
I can't wait for a calmversation guest to deadpan the "are we recording this, have we started yet" question on Benjamin in the last 10 minutes or so of the conversation.
No hat?
One of these kids is do'n his own thing...
🎵 🐿
live chat time, spent! like button, smashed! appreciation, given! (no fcuks, what are those!) ♡♡♡
A phoque is sort of like a sea otter that was like, you know what, I'm gonna show this ocean who's boss! then adapted even better to marine living.
Benjamin, can I say, as a parent of a young adult male with body dysmorphia, if he could correct the flaws he sees when he looks in the mirror, a mirror he can’t get away from checking himself in, umpteen times a day, he would be euphoric. And no belief journey. No sense of authentic nor inauthentic self comes into it. It’s a psychiatric disorder and it’s crippling. And let me also say, I don’t believe that his euphoria would last, since it would not “fix” the disorder. I would expect, before long, that he would find another aspect to his features that needed to be altered. So right now, the focus is on addressing the disorder not following him down the rabbit hole of deluded thinking because there is also an intelligent, insightful person there side by side with the disorder who knows that it’s a disorder. But the compunction that drives this is ferocious and self and all consuming. It is a fearful disorder that would have you living in a world of delusion and eventually, in my experience of another family member, of psychosis and suicide. So going with the disorder, in my personal experience leads to potentially disastrous outcomes. Therapy, therapy, therapy, insight, EMDR, recognition of trauma and trauma treatment, body or what’s termed, somatic psychotherapy, everything that connects the person back to their body, the one they have. And, there is no such thing as a “trans child”. And “doctor” John Money certainly caused the lie to spread but was a perverse human being whose theories had nothing to do with the well-being of children and everything to do with harming them for his own gratification and to build a career. So can we get back to the facts of the sources of this, in reality, and away from the idiotic theorising of people who like John Money, just want to make a name for themselves and invent this shit out of whole cloth.
I agree with Ritchie, it is recovery and better fits!!
Corrina should read audio books! I love his voice.
On his podcast he showed his co-host his old phone psychic voice (actual job he had in his 20s) he's a talented voice actor as well
Why would democrats be against follow up care for transitioners if they regret the transition?
I understand the view put forward..that insurance companies may hold back on trans surgeries if they have to cover follow ups... however that should be automatic especially if it is to correct medical problems caused.. it's crazy that it's not
@@helendancelot it tells you much about the intention of their support for medical transition.
You brilliant men you xxxx
Re the advicacy work - I wonder if you should look to how other survivor groups operate - eg rape survivor, families of murdered people, cancer survivors etc
Alistair how will you get therapists to work with you if they are under threat of prosecution for conversion therapy?
Perhaps you could set up a therapy service for therapists who have left their regulatory bodies and are working without registration- perfectly legal, you can still get professional liability insurance with it!
There is already Thoughtful Therapists, Gender Exploratory Therapy Association (GETA) and SEGM. Pass it on. 😉
@@mummablue3107 yes I know, I started Thoughtful Therapists and am a member of GETA, but we cannot be open about our approach
@terfteeps You can't be open about your approach for legal reasons or any blowback that may come from ideologues?
Next can we have cats discussing their issues, as per your suggestion ?
The collating of data for those who have medically transitioned so as to see how they are doing...I would do for the US minimum wage! Yes, please, if it's out there, it can be gathered.
None of these places seem to keep records!
@Dave L ... Like MUCH of what the trans activist cult does... it is by design. If they don't have easily located or extracted information about what they are doing, they have a lot less likelihood to be held accountable when lawyers and such come calling. They have the records of what they have done, but not quality studies on the impact, long term stats, follow ups to confirm they are adjusting well. They are all about a "chop shoppe" surgery mill, so they do NOT want to have records of the failures that are happening as much as all of us are saying.
It's immoral, unscientific and a failure in duty of care or the hypocratic oath..if they take it ..I've heard that many don't these days?
@@helendancelot the "do no harm" oath has not been a requirement for some time.
Yes!! Let's scrap!...in a conducive way 😊
1:10:13 I think these men who transition hold their fathers in contempt. They think of conventional men as brutish, stupid, antagonistic, etc. They resent them and see them as sexual competition.
Ex. Chris Chan said he had “boyfriend phobia” and that he hated all men besides his father.
I was so shock to see how similar the Genspect residencial is to the TENI Residential
TENI ?
T.roonsgender E.quality N.etwork I.reland @@Gingerblaze
Society needs to develop a 'midwife' type of practice based around Love and Heart. These kids need a 'rebirth' and as I listen to their focus on leaving the planet, I regularly sense a void of soul due to not experiencing Love in the early years. just a hip shot, but, Love is the answer, not drugs, surgery and questionable social pressure.
This is a really sweet sentiment
@@clairehann2681 How about a 'specialty' focused on trans leaning children which uses a developed ethics and Love guided interchange based in gentle dialogue, hugs, empathy and inside baseball knowledge derived from the experience of trans, trans-sitioned, spiritual yet non-religious, individuals and trusted therapists as a base for a broad outreach organized program...big jump, but this is a BIG issue for culture and western society in general.
Gentlemen, apropos the “Renaissance Festival” and dress, you all, of course and especially Richie, are aware that men throughout history have betimes, worn frocks, silk stockings, garters with their “doublet and hose” carried a “purse” and still today “manly men” in Scotland who throw poles - Caber Toss- do it in skirts -kilts- so I wish someone would direct the non cognoscenti trans women to historical fact; there’s nothing new under the sun about men in frocks. Today, there’s just the myriad of bad stylistic choices on display. Though now that you don’t have to have gender dysphoria to self designate as trans, it’s’ “come all ye” if ye want to be cool and on trend and socially part of what used to be termed the “in crowd”. And these “trans” style choices are all about body mutilation and boy the style is bad, bad, bad. But even such “trans” style icons such as Dylan Mul….vain, wouldn’t dream of mutilating himself. He’s beautifully monetised as it is, without having to do with all that mess. So play dress up all ye like, let there be frocks galore, but leave the mutilation to piercings and tattoos. And if you’re going to sport a hat, for gods’ sake, make sure you don’t end up looking like a bad version of Johnny Depps’ pirate.
I miss watching the caber toss. I'll have to go back to the highland games this summer
Whilst I appreciate the perspective that someone should get on with their life..if someone was still an activist years down the line I would applaud them opposing the EVIL of transing children and vulnerable adults . This unbelievable abomination must cease..yet we can hope that maybe it will by then
Does a 6 ft 5 guy get so he can't concentrate when he gets hankering for eggs?
We need a movie and book made it's important to show the truth mainstream, I keep seeing badges and pronouns and it's so homophobic and misogynistic patronizing me to suddenly change my sexuality because I can clearly see a girl with he him pronouns, we need all will never give up.
57th like is mine, cause I beat some of y'all out the canoe.
Try harder next time.
Ten months later and this seems to be the twelfth comment… Was I jesting, or have _that_ many comments been yeeted in the intervening months?
I would like to know whether the meeting with Ken Zucker was held under Chatham House rules, either explicitly stated or at least implied. When Corinna brought it up, she seemed to imply that she thought it might have been.
If so, it was inappropriate to name Dr. Zucker in this video. For future conferences, it might be an idea to have explicit protocols for these matters so everyone knows where they stand.
Zucker was billed in the conference notes and website.
@@BenjaminABoyce Sure, It is well known that Dr. Zucker attended the conference, but both Ritchie and Corinna stated that the interaction took place in a 'private meeting'. Dr. Zucker may have a different interpretation of what that means, although it is true to say what was revealed did not tell us anything new about Dr. Zucker's position. Genspect wishes to have Wpath people come to their conferences and discuss differences, or so I have heard Stella say. If there is a Chatham House rule for private meetings, then they will be more likely to engage, I would have thought.
@@juvenalsdad4175 It was private for the sake of the detransitioners, not anyone else. They were there to learn, so i taught him some things
@@tullipr Ok, thanks for the clarification. As long as everyone involved knows what's what there is no problem.
Why men, mostly white males, are not there for this.
Leave aside the fact that the gender theorists that created the lexicon come almost exclusively from feminism and anarchism, and that a great deal of the early and visible voices on the other side of these topics were feminist academics, journalists, activists and advocates, eager to link it all to feminist ideas, rather than create broad appeal, and so actually do something about it.
The one group who are the greatest potential allies of sane advocates and activists on this issue - white males - are skeptical and confused. This is partly because feminism and medicine and politics and academia have got more and more alienated from ordinary people, particularly the working class, and partly because mainstream feminism and the women's movement in general has spent the last 50 years slagging off white males and telling them not to mess in women's business (and they're getting that double time from the new brand of feminism too, of course).
Often the angry reply from our "side" is, "WHY DON'T MEN ADDRESS THE FELLOW MEN THAT ARE THE CAUSE OF THE PROBLEM IN THE FIRST PLACE, EH!?!". Characterizing these issues as all being caused by males is incorrect, but even if it were true, as if ordinary blokes have access to the rabid young male twitter "allies" and weirdo-males trying to force their way into women's spaces. As if ordinary men could just sidle up to that lot at the pub and say "cut it out, mate". I suspect that if they could do that, the same women would chastise them for using the threat of male violence.
Ordinary men are looking to women for leadership and guidance on this. Imagine having a trans-skeptical wife and a trans-activist daughter. I've spoken to men in that position. There is a bit of a generational divide between women on this topic as well. Ordinary men don't know which way to turn, and also don't want to be seen to be 'messing in women's business'. The point of all this is not to say "oh boo hoo, poor old men!" but to point out possible reasons for confusion and reluctance.
Forgive me, I see that your post is months old but I would like to think that men in general, if they are more accepting that masculinity can manifest in young men in different ways and accept them as just men, this can help a class of youngsters be ok with themselves and may keep them off this trans path...possibly.
🏆 👏👏👏
55:15 Nobody at any age who _wants_ these interventions is mentally well enough to consent to them. That is obvious in the case of apotemnophilia… S.lice R.earrange and S.ew surgeries shouldn't be available, full-stop.
Eggs
34:21 Corinna is 100% right. Which sucks cuz I don't see any good rebuttal to their side.
1:06:42 Oh yeah, speedrunners are trans alright. They literally infiltrated *women’s e-sports.*
Being Jewish means attaining the sensation of two contrasting forces in nature, the egoistic force, which is our human nature, and its opposite altruistic force, which is the force of nature itself.
The attainment of these two forces define the people who, first under Abraham, developed this sensation of reality. They became known as the people of Israel, and later, as the Jews.
At a certain point, around 2.000 years ago, we lost the sensation of the two forces and lived solely in the egoistic force. That is the meaning of being in exile.
Exile has no geographic connotations, i.e. that we left some geographic Land of Israel and now we return to it. It is rather a matter of an inner exile, that we do not host the sensation of the altruistic nature, i.e. the quality of love, bestowal and connection, between us. When we fell from this sensation, we then entered our period of exile and ceased to exist as the people of Israel
❤....awesome
54:21 arms are limbs too, bro!
I forgot to comment...
Thanks for remembering!
@@BenjaminABoyce 🙂
Better late than never.
I didn't know Benjamin was gay.
What makes you think he is?
@@Gingerblaze The rainbow hat.
@@Jace7310Fair.
Poor Corinna, no one's appreciated your 3d move.
Maybe consider broaching the idea of a subscription based plan for drugs for chronic conditions, like a lease on life and the rent is the monthly payments for the medicines. Which also creates the incentive avenue for medicines to be charged even if not consumed. So maybe direct this at pharma.
I don't have the knowledge you do so this may be an entirely useless example but I hope sharing the approach was useful
Children of trans then?
genspect to replace wpath gets my vote
richie robin hood glad you are still at it x
richie you need to get a hat if you can fit your beautiful hair into one i have a jaki version of alistairs and a beige version of bbs happy to post them on