This is such an important conversation. My soon-to-be 12 year old recently came to me to have a discussion about her pronouns. She was under the impression that because she was “different” than the other girls that she wasn’t a girl, she was a “Demi-girl.” I had to try to navigate the delicate conversation about how being different than the other girls doesn’t mean that she is trans. I feel like this movement is erasing the experiences of women who might feel different, by telling them the reason why they are different is because they are trans. At first she was upset and had the idea that I was one of the typical bigots “rejecting that non-binary exists.” I feel fortunate that my daughter is an only-child, and I’m a single mom, so we are very close and feel comfortable having this conversations. But It was very tricks trying to simultaneously “validate her experience” while setting the record straight with respect to the lunacy of our times. I’m frightened going forward that she will continue to be indoctrinated.
My 18-year-old experiences gender dysphoria (possibly from a female predator) and identified as demiboy for a time. Also bristled if I referred to them as "my daughter". Preferred he/him pronouns for a time, but has settled with they/them right now. Gender dyphoria is a real thing, but my proudly tomboy wife (no really, she proudly calls herself a tomboy) and I have never seen such a stringent view of sex phenotype and identification ("gender" is scientifically vague).. our parents' generations rather fought for broader, more inclusive definitions. But that's not what we're getting, at all.
Well why don't we just let children mature into young adults, it's confusing enough being human without the imposition of these gender unicorn ideologies... educators really need to get a life.
Also I'm sorry to hear... the indoctrination is very sick and also proving very effective. This is our future world at stake here... and your situation is heartbreaking.
I think the most important thing to convey is that you love her and are truly acting out of selfless love. If she sees that you are behind her 100% and you are able to keep an open dialog going that is saturated with logical and reasonable explanations of what she is experiencing, the indoctrination won't stick. Teaching kids how to think, not what to think, is the way to go.
It's "funny" (actually it's not) how that progressive movements are lacking any logic. I thought that we should be fighting stereotypes about sex or gender. You know - you can be a perfect, normal woman, if you love kick-boxing or soccer and you can be a normal guy if you like fashion or opera. But now? If a boy acts feminine it's a sign that he needs a transition, or if a girl acts like a boy - the same. It's so, so stereotypical! It's against all the things that we (I mean, progressive, liberal people) were fighting for. To be youself, to be happy, no matter, what you look like or act like. And you don't have to change your sex, gender or anything, you can be yourself as a woman or a man. We don't need 100 new genders to accept that people behave in a 100 different ways.
Hi Benjamin... I TOTALLY AGREE with Abigail on the point that children are being taught to be "too in touch" with their feeling 24/7... and it is producing a self-centered/anxious/depressed generation that cannot (or will not) consider the feelings/thoughts of others... I remember being in middle school (in the 70s) and my Health teacher telling us (girls) to read Judy Blume "Are You There God It's Me Margaret"... LOL... how times have changed... It just breaks my heart to think what these girls (that have transitioned w/o the full knowledge of what it actually means) will have to face when they realize what they have actually done... I look forward to reading both Abigail's and Debra's books... THANK YOU Benjamin for sharing this great conversation with us all!!! Take care... and wear BLUE more... it brings out your eyes!!! :o)
This phenomenon is described in The Coddling of the American Mind. The way youngsters are taught to process their emotion is the exact opposite of the principles of CBT (cognitive behavioural therapy)
Eric Weinstein had a good take on this in that we have developed critical thinking as a way to resolve bias and contradiction from our decision processes, but we are lacking in developing critical feeling to resolve bias and contradiction in that kind of emotional decision making.
@@PothePerson Love that book btw, and yes. Everything SJW is: do this thing, and if it's not working, do the same thing harder. They are getting children while they're developing and confused about everything and tell them to fully trust or faithfully trust their emotions which is the most volatile part of themselves. Then when they get more confused they say, here....join a group of other extremely confused people and whatever you agree on is now truth. If anyone else says otherwise, they're an -ist/-phobe, and you have carte blanche to do violence upon them, because their simple disagreement is equivalent to violence to you.......that escalated quickly, just like Evergreen State, or CHAZ, or 2020 in general.
I have encountered at least one UA-camr who is talking about how transitioning was a mistake. Ryan.. I forgot her last name. Of course there are trans folk that are pleased they transitioned (Blaire White is another UA-camr that comes to mind) but there are people that decided to detransition, and they do get criticized for speaking out about it.
@@marcelinedupuis8623 Gen Xer there. Narcissistic abuse is rife in my family of origin, stretching back 2 or 3 generations that I can find. I think emotional literacy is lacking. I'm struggling to get my emotional understanding caught up to my rational understanding, and complex PTSD is part of that. I was raised with little to NO boundaries and a lot of toxic criticism and emotional incest. My wife and kids are now having to deal with the ugly narcissism of my mother (and for a time, my maternal grandmother, but she died last June).
loving this I have a friend who's young daughter was convinced she was "trans", ... on a high school sponsored 2 week "camping trip"... it's insidious...
I just want to follow up with some more information about my friend's situation and his daughter. When he told me about this he explained thus: They (him and his wife) knew she was a lesbian because she "came out" a couple of years before (13-14). They had been letting her visit a woman, a "trusted" neighbor-friend and she would frequently "have sleep-overs" which began when she was around 10. (I guess this woman would host "sleep-over parties" with the neighborhood kids, or so they thought.) They later found out the woman was a lesbian, which was fine. After his daughter "came out" as lesbian and they subsequently found out the neighbor was lesbian, they began to suspect the woman had been "grooming" her and possibly molesting her. Fast forward to age 15-16, their daughter has joined the school's LBGT club. They get a notice that the high school is sponsoring a 2 week camp for LGBT kids and they allow her to go. When their daughter gets back from it, she tells them she has "realized" she is "trans". They also found out that she had been "convinced" of this by a "trans" camp councilor. They decide to go to the school and talk to the principal and complain that they felt their daughter was a lesbian and that she was confused. They have the meeting and other "staff" are there, including "LGBT" councilors. After they make their case, they are told, in no uncertain terms, that they are wrong and if they don't affirm and support "transitioning" then the school will move to have the authorities charge them with child endangerment and have their daughter removed from their home! Well, They sold their house and moved, real quick. This was a couple of years ago. I haven't been in touch lately so I don't know how things stand now.
@no privacy It's a 'school administrative district' just outside of greater Portland (cough, 6!, cough, cough...). Same about 'live-and-let-live' attitudes here really. Who knows how deep these 'educators' have been indoctrinated but know they can't go full on public crazy with their BS, because of it... yet. I swear the story I recounted was as my friend told me, the week it happened. Here is a strange kicker, my friend's wife is "black" (actually, her mother is "black", father is "white", both of them are from Northern Maine, "In The County". My friend and his wife have moved to north western Maine. Show me your town and I will show you mine... ;0)
A child can now decide they are trans and start to make life altering decisions yet we cannot drink or smoke until we are 21. How does any of this make any sense?
In Scotland and the Australian State of Victoria laws have recently be voted in under the guise of being anti gay-conversion laws. They make it a criminal offence to deny your child's chosen 'gender'. In Scotland 'they' chose the age of four as the age you lose you guardianship status. So much for Keira Bell.
2 definitions of normal: 1- The most common 2- Good/ Healthy The trick the woke play is they pretend we mean #2 when we mean #1 -- luckily for them theres enough morons out there.
I’m a public middle school teacher who was directed this year by the district to deceive parents at the request of a student “experimenting” with a new trans identity. This is wrong and I will be challenging it. Still looking for the way that opens me up to least amount of risk.
Your honesty and courage are heartening. I'm sure you will eventually figure out the best way to maintain sensible boundaries with both your students and their parents, while keeping your job. I only wish that it were possible for you to be open with your district and community regarding this deceptive strategy. I think a lot of parents and other citizens think that this concept is just another 'right wing conspiracy theory''.
@@michelep6300 I can't claim to know the full range of them, though right wing whackadoodlery does tend to bundle conspiracy nonsense. In the current context, however, let's begin with the automatic credibility you grant to the transapocalypse supposedly being underwritten by the "woke" educational system and the "leftist" deep state, in apparent cabalistic conjunction with the American Medical Association, the World Health Organization, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Anthropological Association--the American Federation of Teachers too, I must conclude--and essentially every body and individual practitioner of medicine and science who don't align with fundie rage politics and theofascism. Here's a possibility, the OP is a lying meme.
I'm a teacher. I can vouch for the occurrence of activist teaching among teachers, especially the young ones. The education system is by and large left leaning already, but these young teachers come in treating everyone like we're Ms. Trunchbulls. For reference, I'm politically moderate which makes me the most conservative teacher at my school.
If a politically moderate teacher, is the most conservative at/ in a school.....then not only is that sad and scary, but either that SCHOOL is doomed, or the kids that go there are. Sad.
I know young teachers who are absolutely horrified by all this. It depends which end of society you belong to, this is coming from the middle class for sure.
Is there any way any of you ladies can speak at some of these public schools? My 15 year old started hanging out with a group of kids that decided to be trans and now she thinks she is a boy. The principal at Hoover high school in Glendale Ca. and CV High School in La Crescenta stated that I had no rights and they would continue to call my daughter by a boy name. Well, my husband and I pulled her out of the public school system and put her in a private school. My daughter was diagnosed with Autism 2 months ago and I am happy to report that her Autism is being addressed by her therapy and I have my daughter back! Parents MUST speak up, these school officials do not care about our kids and it is causing chaos!
@@markkavanagh7377 both create permanent, sometimes grievous, bodily harm to the child while the beneficiaries are adults (trans rights activists, some of the crazy parents like Suzi Green). though as wth thalidomide, parents are mostly unaware of the reality/repercussions. i mean, the mothers that took thalidomide most certainly wouldn't have taken it to ease their morning sickness if they knew the outcome. probably most parents would vehemently refuse transing their child if they understood the truth of the process and outcome and the rubbish "science" behind it. what they don't have in common: doctors prescribing thalidomide would not likely do it again, whereas doctors supporting transing kids seem quite proud of the damage they do. the biggest thing they have in common: drug companies making lots of money, children being irrevocably harmed by it, and in some countries, like my own, it is not only supported legally but if you try to stop it you could lose custody of your children or even end up in prison. My fellow Canadians, please stand up to Bill C-8!
@@ilfautdanser9121 that's all true. This is scientists believing their own hype and telling kids they can turn blue into red or vice versa when really they just manage to make purple and the kids have to live with the consequences forever after. In Britain the tide has turned against the trans activists and the Tavistock clinic is now being investigated.
We used to teach people to love themselves for who they are and accept their body as beautiful. Now its all about correcting what is "wrong" or mistaken in its very nature. Accepting yourself is a part of healthy self esteem maturation and a good adult life. When did this simple understanding fall out of vogue? I believe some of this may have come with the advent of plastic surgery becoming so widely accepted. You can essentially turn yourself into a person that bears very little resemblance to your former self if you choose. Why not the opposite sex? People have forgotten the strength found in self acceptance.
@@mercyferal I get that. I really do. And I think its a worthy undertaking. The soul is where the life springs from, the mind receives, and the body expresses... That's honestly what I mean on a fundamental level. The greatest ancient teachers speak of unifying a strong soul, body, and mind to be the complete expression of one entity. To reject one's own body as incorrect? ...You wouldn't advise anyone to reject their own mind or their own soul. So the disconnect of this lesson seems obvious. Connection IS the soul expressing itself. As you said, there is nothing to "fix", only express. I kind of love that you responded with an insightful answer. We need more of that in the world.
You've misunderstood. The effort is still to love what you are. It's just a broader, more tolerant, more open, more aware effort than before. The effort is really about stopping people trying to box others in narrow places. Why do that? Why care?
@@theinhabited Lol. I think we agree and I'm not expressing something correctly... Or maybe not? I will say this. Conversion therapy has been banned for a reason. Once upon a time people would say if your a man and you're attracted to another man then you're mind is wrong for the body you have and they would try to "correct" your mind. Now they say, that if your mind is feminine and your body is male, you should correct your body and make it female. Both of these things are conversion therapy. One from the far right. One from the far left. BOTH of these things tell you that something about you has to change for you to be acceptable. Its kind of ridiculous that it is being sold as empowerment. I mean... there were people back in the day who honestly believed they needed to "pray the gay away." If we honestly believe that its not better to be male or female? Then it simply becomes about cosmetic superficiality. Which is fine. As long as we aren't proposing to "fix" something being wrong with a person.
As a gay conservative, and recovering from swipes about critical theory...I totally understand the kinds of things they are talking about, especially about being obsessed with “identity.”
I have a gay uncle who's also conservative. I think the conservative party has become much more tolerant than before. I'm a new conservative so I can't speak much on how conservatives used to be, but today they seem very tolerant of gays, more so than the left is tolerant of straights.
@@FJB2020LGB I’ve found those among the gay conservative movement to be more open with varying beliefs. I believe in a traditional view of sexual ethics and marriage, and yet I feel like I wouldn’t be shamed among other gay conservatives, even those who believe differently.
@@alexlindstrom555 so I don’t want to sound bigoted but I have differing views based on religion and conservativism. Religiously marriage is supposed to be between a man and woman because that’s what it takes to give birth and children should have their biological parents, the family is the bedrock of any society. But conservatively it’s none of my business what someone else does and frankly I don’t see why the government should be involved. If you want to get married to a man, how does that affect me? Why is it my business? Just like what you do in your bedroom is no ones business as long as it’s consensual. My experience is that a lot of conservatives tend to think along these lines that as long as your not hurting them, they don’t care what you do. I think conservatives just went to live and be left alone so they can raise their families, whereas the left seems to want to control every aspect of life.
@@alexlindstrom555 oh really? Interesting. Ya know, these ideas used to be common, all throughout history until now it was considered the norm. But recently in our political climate, these ideas are now seen as bigoted. A child should be raised by the parents that created him? A mom and a dad? Nah that’s white supremacy or some shit
I've read the book and I'd have to disagree it is extremely misinformed and quite childish constantly blaming popular Transgender figures, putting down the child while building up the parent.
@@jamiestewart6887 I'd actually say that was one of the facets of the book that really opened my eyes the most. I wouldn't say that Abigail blamed these influencers so much as she made it clear they're having an influence. I didn't realize just how much of that there was out there prior to reading her book.
UK situation as I understand it:- Mermaids have changed their tune in response to a recent Department of Education schools directive which essentially reinstates previous best practice on treating children equally and with dignity without making assumptions about their 'gender identity'. They are now instructing schools not to use materials provided by organisations claiming that children can be born in the wrong body or to use gender stereotyping as a basis for suggesting to children that they are trans. It also says not to let such organisations run training for teachers. (Praise the Lord and pass the biscuits) The guidelines also make clear that parents must be involved at all levels of decision making. Lots of training materials for schools provided by Mermaids and other trans advocacy groups explicitly tell the school NOT to tell parents anything about what they are doing to children who they are describing as trans, and imply that the school is the safe place for these children while home is not. Hopefully safeguarding for 'trans' children will also now be reinstated as they have often been excluded from standard practice because it has been deemed transphobic to investigate the underlying reasons why a child might express a dislike of their body. Mermaids have been dropped by the BBC as a resource they link to in their 'if you have been affected by any of the issues in this programme' stuff. Mermaids are rewriting history now by deleting stuff and claiming, for example, they never equated toy choices with trans identity in children. Unluckily for them there are plenty of alert people who have archived and taken screen shots so the evidence remains. Also, of course, there is Susie Green's TED talk which explicitly shows that her husband didn't like their little boy's toy choices and that his disapproval was key to their child thinking he should have been a girl. I think we need to raise a glass to celebrate the hard work of a great many women and some men who have doggedly kept on about this despite suffering shocking harrassment, death and rape threats and all the other abuse trans activists throw at them.
I’m so grateful for both of these ladies! We started having ROGD with our daughter and tried the “affirm” route that most therapists tell you to go. Our teen daughters’ anger and distance towards us grew and she was seriously thinking transitioning to “feel better.” When I read Abigail’s book it helped us better understand the situation. Then I found Dr. Debra Soh’s work and that was such a help as well. We took her advice and things we learned from both of them and our daughter is doing so much better. She is more connected to us then online influencers and seems more sure of herself as a female.
Abigail's book is often dismissed out-right and it uses perceived or legitimate shortcomings/errors of the book, to just ignore the blatantly true and frightening truths within the book. The people that need to be reached by the book are often too unwilling to admit there is a problem and they use anecdotal reasoning to dismiss certain claims of the book. People hating the book and not listening to any arguments in good faith, is so frustrating. The strawmanning towards it, goes beyond naivety or ignorance, it is just blatant misrepresentation and it appears insidious. "She misgenders people, therefore her motives are hateful and all her talking points are TERFy, therefore it is all inaccurate and can be dismissed without a well-formed argument." That is what I see. Everyone is taking apart the weaker aspects or misrepresenting it, and all the really tough parts, they don't even bring them up, and if they do, they gloss over or downplay it. I am sure there are flaws within her book, and it should be criticised, but I would love to hear a trans person or trans activist respond to the ideas proposed in the book. Do they genuinely think the entirety of the book is baseless?
Interesting to hear about helicopter parenting at the end. I heard someone recently saying that the current gen of teenagers have such accepting parents that they have no way to rebel.
You could look at Jonathan Haidt and his book "Coddling of the American mind". There are a few 1 hour lectures of him about that book. In that book in the such lectures, he discusses a few things that resulted in the uproar that happened on US campuses, one of them being helicopter parenting. In most lectures he also says a few words as to why helicopter parenting is often unwise. If you have not heard of him and/or his book, I am curious if you find it interesting.
Kids in the 89's and 90's started being supervised 24-7 with very little 'free range' time to work out the vicissitudes of social hierarchies, problem solving and independence. It's only worse now. I don't see parents being accepting.
You can still rebel. I'm Gen X. My parents were very permissive. My friends were like, "They're so cool." I was like wtf? They should be parents not cool. My sister and I rebelled against the whole "whatever goes" thing.
@@Bob-jm8kl good for you. A lot of kids in your situation would instead become young tyrants demanding everything and, naturally, narcisistic. I've always found having certain rules and boundaries to be good. Even as a kid, when I resented the fact that my parents didn't give me certain toys, or that other kids had certain toys despite being rude, I could still aknowledge the value of not having too much. I gave importance to what I had and fully explored it, and also valued what I didn't have.
@@stopthephilosophicalzombie9017 here's my thing, I want my children to have the ability to rebel because they live in a safe community, but with all the terrible stuff around us, like the variety of leftist ideologies, i know I can lose my child very easily. Its hard not to be a helicopter parent when I know how toxic these ideologies are.
It's a nightmare, same experience. My daughter, after a really dark, dark period (lasted at least 3 years) came out as trans when she was 14. In Italy the problem is exploding now and nobody is ready to help. And if you talk about it in concern you're accused of bigotry. Any Italian family is reading my message to talk about it? I feel so scared and alone
I love how Debra and Abigail suddenly started to interview each other hahaha. Yeah, those activists keep saying this whole stuff has nothing to do with us """""CIS""" women, but this subject has everything to do with being a women... any type of women. We all know how it is to be a girl in this world and... guess what? Girls that transition also have all these experiences in common with us, despite trying so hard to say they're men. I love these two together sharing experiences.
I wouldnt be surprised if your channel isnt bigger because of some algorithmic shenanigans on UA-cam part. Your videos would be hard to pull apart because you speak with professionals of many different fields, your interviews are non combative, you dont do anything that could be outwardly misconstrued as hateful or trolling (aside from the joke video here and there), you're respectful, and you dont have extreme takes to where you could easily be labeled "alt-right" or whatever. You're a gem Benjamin! This channel probably makes them very nervous up there at the top.
Great listen!! That nastiness and dismissal of people sharing regret and detrans experiences reminds me so much of how heartless the cult mentality among vegans seem to make these compassionate animal defenders… cruel attacks, unwilling to listen to those who report ill health on a vegan diet… 😥 This will happen when a genuine search for truth and a good life is hijacked by narcissism. I m o. Happens throughout history… and so very visibly and obviously now.
I consider myself to be trans. However, when I was a teenager, there is no way that I would have been able to emotionally handle making a transition. I agree with these women 100%.
WOW Benjamin!! Nice work getting Debra and Abigail on. You got the chance to speak to them and WE got the change to see all three of you together! Excellent discussion, thank you so much for your hard work.
The stereotype used to be that anti-intellectualism, pc culture, anti-comedy came from religious culture. Given the rise of Christian philosophy through the works of Plantinga, WL Craig, Alex Pruss, Rob Koons, Josh Rasmussen, and many others, plus Christian comedy from places like FreedomToons and Babylon Bee, it's so fascinating to see the shift from religious to anti-religious anti-intellectualism.
Two of my absolute favorite authors on this topic: two brave, intelligent women who are not cowed by the deranged mobs. Thank you for bringing clarity on this topic and opening up space for discussion.
@@Jabez0 I've seen so many of Abigail's videos and the one thing I keep hoping she'd discuss is how tv is having an influence. With shows like Blue's Clues promoting this stuff to 2-5 year olds, how is this not having an effect on children?
There is about a 1-3% amount of the population that are truly/factually dealing with being transgender. Outside of that, transgender activists are solidifying gender stereotypes, which as a society we’ve been fighting for so long. My son believed he was transgender & one of the reasons was because pink is his favorite color. Girls who don’t care about makeup, fashion, gossip etc. are led to believe they must be men. Trans people generally transition to the MOST stereotypical version of the new gender. Likes & dislikes do not define people period. We don’t let people drink or smoke until they are 21 & 18. Why? Because we have agreed as a society that minors/children cannot make decisions to do things that could harm them. They have to wait until their decision making skills are better. This is no different. I support my children’s gender non-conformity. In fact I celebrate individual uniqueness. It was very tricky to navigate my son’s identity confusion, but I made sure he knew that he was great the way he was, which was a gentle, sensitive, kind, artistic male. That is not the message he was getting from his “research” on UA-cam from transgender people. These two and a few others are fantastic. The non-biased way this is discussed is so crucial. The unemotional & academic way it’s discussed is also important during this climate.
I think that when we talk about sexes, we need to know why we are making distinctions. And the reason seems to be procreation. You need a man and a woman to make a baby. That's why humans named them differently. Except for that, we'd just all be people. There are a minority of us who don't fit into that man-woman mold, because we're not reproducing via sex, but I don't see that it requires a massive rewrite of the language and the law. I look forward to more biology in this discussion.
No, there are a lot of physiological differences between men and women. This was recently discussed with regards to testing and treatment for Covid, but doctors are well aware there are a lot of differences. Historically, women have been endangered by being given medications tested only on males which turned out to affect females differently (e.g Digoxin). There was an article going around recently about a transman who almost died of kidney failure rather than admit to the doctor that they were biologically female, because the danger limit on tests is lower in females. We have different heart attack symptoms, are far more likely to develop osteoporosis, (women are 80% of cases) etc, etc.
Great job Benjamin, Deborah & Abigail. I'll be sharing this wherever I can. Wish I cld do more & find it quite strange Boyce's channel isn't larger. I hope anyone who can support him will. He's not one to harp for donations, but boy he deserves them. So, if I can be overt, please contribute if you're able. Thanks!
Boyce hosts wonderful interviews -- I love that he gives full space for thoughtful answers. Soh and Schrier are (bright and beautiful) heroic warriors.
How can anyone be "okay" with pornography and at the same time acknowledge its negative effects on young minds? As if it didn't have the same effect on adult minds. And as if it wasn't basically films where people get paid instead of giving consent to sex, at least in cases where it's not literally sex slavery behind the camera.
Isn't social media ultimately "people"? The shortcoming is dividing people up into solos of whatever you already "like". Tho UA-cam and Twitter sometimes gives me (actual) Marxist as well as strong SJW videos to go along with liberal anti-woke and some conservative channels. I honestly try to confuse the algorithms. Coleman Hughes said he got on Tumbler in high school to meet girls he liked. Depressed people giving each other mental health advice, but also wearing that as a badge of prestige.
Social media is addictive and can be soul destroying and in one case I know of caused a youg girl to commit suicide. Yes its people but people with a skewed agenda
@@gg_rider I think it's encouraging narcissism and enabling sociopathic behavior. Some of the people that have designed it have admitted social media is designed with psychological hooks in mind.. basic behavioral psychology, even. And yes, GOOGS designs with cognitive bias in mind.. their search engine does that, too. They feed you what the algorithm figures you want.
I actually feel so much better listening to this conversation ... I've had gender dysphoria as a teen and im so glad I decided not to medically transition ... No body talks about the fact that medical transition is not the only treatment for gender dysphoria.
@@ericaloveskorea It wasnt a treatment for gender dysphoria per se. I had conventional therapies regarding the childhood abuse and family situation which I later realised was mostly, if not completely, the reason I had disassociated from my body and wanted to be someone else.
Actually, studies on children with gender dysphoria actually shows that the majority of them get better after puberty, and many of them are gay. So transitioning as a "treatment" seems very counter productive to me. Don't fix what isn't broken.
I've never liked the term "assigned at birth", doctors don't assign anything, biology does, what doctor's do is recognize so it should be termed "recognized at birth", we already know the sex before a baby is born, but we still recognize it when the baby comes out.
I'm intrigued by "the End of Gender" as I have already read the Abigail's book. Both courage women, worthy voices to be listened. Thank you for the podcast 😊
He's certainly one of the best interviewers. He will have the taboo discussions. And he will find guests and invite them on before other folks do. I'd like more disagreement on the show, but it's already great as is.
Benjamin: "Gender Trap" issues, discussions, interviews, and critiques are all over the internet, UA-cam, podcasts, etc. Most are marginal. Some are good. Few are great. This one is GREAT. Fantastic job moderating this truly edifying talk between Debra, Abigail and yourself. Congrats.
As someone who is childfree by choice; I'm disappointed that ppl like myself are making the education system and making it difficult for you to speak what we know to be true. Everything you describe is why I was afraid to have children. I am a black woman of lower middle income status. I do not live in the community of my origin. I was very concerned that I would end up in a nonsense situation like this-- child custody on the line-- with no power or resources to fight. I do not have the strength or resources to fight this. I still want a good life. I made the choice the forego motherhood to ensure this... I HATE that you are proving me right... But still thank you.
I completed the majority of an Ed degree in Canada before deciding that to spend my life living under the thumb of these people would be soul-crushing. I can tell you that the teachers' colleges are actively promoting the idea that education is a mission to change the world, and that this mission must be understood in terms of the ideology. In their view, all education is ideologically driven, and so it is legitimate to deliberately subvert the social and political "hegemony" by training teachers to train students to see the world in those terms. Challenging their ideas in class led to bullying by the instructor, which was completely different than I had experienced in other colleges, where probing questions were not only expected but welcomed. I can also say that the professors in my own teaching were less qualified in the subject than I was (BA in English and MA in writing). Across the board, our subject-specific courses did not focus primarily on teaching methodology but on how to teach the subject so as to promote the ideology. This was painfully obvious to me in my methods for teaching English courses, as I could see how much of the subject was either being warped or completely ignored in order to make space for the political agenda. Overall, the experience was heart-breaking.
thank you from France, this is happening here too and I am glad to hear what I have been thinking for a while, and yes. The difficulty is to be able to connect with my daughter without being called transphobe
I think what Debra meant when she talked about how hard this topic was to research, & how this was "universal" for women, is that to some extent puberty is awful for all of us. If you asked modern girls if they'd choose to wave a magic wand & be a boy version of themselves, most of us would do it. Nobody WANTS to be the physically weaker, slower, smaller version of human, the version who (we're constantly told) is persecuted, earns less money, has never been US president, is less than 1 in 20 CEOs, & must bear the burdens of menstruation, pregnancy, childbirth, nursing & child rearing. It doesn't help that females are really the only category of so-called marginalized persons who can be openly mocked & ridiculed, particularly by "drag queens" which are the closest we have to a modern minstrel show. P0rn is a huge part of the problem of young girls identifying as boys or LGBTQIA+. We're learning that many girls have very bad first s3xual experiences & reject the objectified stereotypes they see in p0rn, so they wish to dissociate from str8t womanhood. This is the reason for the dramatic increase in mastectomy surgeries. Lastly, 1 of the best takeaways from this podcast was Abigail's point that young people are just thinking too much about themselves. I've noticed this with patients/ clients & the content we see young people post online. Listen to the videos by any of the so-called influencers in these woke fields, & you'll hear an utter obsession with self. They all claim to have anxiety & depression & they self-identify with 1 or more aspects of LGBTQIA+. When I was in school, the rebellious among us just smoked pot, took acid & skipped class to hangout on the beach or attend raves at the closest university. The rebellious smart kids might've taken too much adderall & bought others' prescriptions for it or the girls might've been an0rexic. But we didn't sit around thinking about our identities. We were, for better or worse, really engaged with the world around us. We had FB & MS but we weren't online 24/7 like these kids are on IG & Twitter. I hope something can be done to help these kids focus outwards, bc nothing good comes from self-obsession
Drag queens aren't about mocking women, traditionally, in the gay community. It's more about gender play and empowerment through ownership of stereotypes. Which are difficult concepts to understand unless you actually know the expreiences of gender-nonconforming gay people.
I read both of their books, and I liked this video before I watched it. Maybe presumptuous of me but your videos never disappoint! OK now I'll watch it.
Wonderful to find you both in one podcast...My son is living with this ideology and affliction. As a parent, I am always looking for solid information that is not biased. Thanks again. We are losing this battle with our children but we are learning to battle with the good info that you provide.
OMG, I have lost custody and this is the first example of anyone else going through what I’ve been going through! I was bullied into consent orders that still said ‘equal shared parental responsibility’ and the other party wrote the document, and despite me saying it was wrong, they described sole parental responsibility. So for five months I have not heard from or seen my daughter because any disagreement is resolved by the father when we can’t agree.
From a very early age I self identified as a "boy". I felt like a boy inside, I liked doing all those boy things......rough housing, sports, frogs and snakes.......and I do remember liking girls.....looking at them and even (but not really understanding why) trying to impress them and liking there attention. Then years later I grew up ........and now I'm a 6' 235lbs all muscle and man I guess I self identified properly
I'm out of touch with sex-ed. I am shocked they discuss anal sex in detail. I always assumed when people complained about their sex education they meant the basic biology, STIs, and prophylactics. Oh, this reminds me too of someone in r/antipornography posting that pornography made them so scared of sex that they identified as asexual.
Gen Xer here.. that was largely my school sex ed, but STIs were covered with a lot of fearmongering and prophylactics were barely discussed. I think it was woefully inadequate. Of course there is STRONG reactions against this new sex ed being rolled out, but I think too many parents in my rural-ish small town area would rather just roll over and avoid discussing healthy sexuality. I refused to sign the proposition protesting it: I don't think the proposed curriculum is good, but neither do I honestly expect them to do it right. Mine didn't. They thought exposing the parts on themselves was a good idea when I was way too young (6) to understand, then progressively clammed up when I was old enough. My mother shoved a newspaper article under my nose about prophylactics when I basically had learned how they worked.. and I wasn't even sexually active yet. I will forbear discussing the damage their attitudes brought me.
@@jaklumen oh wow. I'm sorry to hear it. I'm in my late 30s and went to a catholic school. Our first sex ed was in 5th grade, i doubt we got taught about stis until junior high. A lot of the teachers went above and beyond tho telling us about their own fertility struggles. Although, i was really lucky that my parents had homosexual friends. One of my great aunts was a lesbian, but died long before I was born. My point being we never covered homosexuality in school, but many of the girls were out before graduation, and at least a few of the former nuns were considered lesbians. I can't imagine how much more difficult it'd be for me to have come out as bisexual in a different environment. Anyway, since my 20s, i haven't trust men to put condoms on, they never seem to grasp that you need a bit of extra space in them.
I agree with Dr. Soh. If you have the the power to tell children what to think, you have more power to control them. So dangerous. Children need to be taught how to think. Great program. Very necessary information. Great guests, Benjamin.
Wow... when I taught sex ed in CA in the 1990's, we weren't even supposed to show the boys how to put a condom on a banana! I did it anyway.... but we weren't supposed to! Now they learn um... WHAT exactly??? Lord it's gotten so scary out there.
I am a gay man , this kind of stuff is really sickening me , I. Never. In my 61 yrs thought that we would end up here !!! I personally think if any teacher puts her or his personal business in any class room , is. Totally out of control & parents need to step up to these things. !!!
I’m a public school teacher and can attest to the fact that kids are unfortunately seeing porn at much younger ages than “11 and 12”; if they have internet and a device, they are seeing it accidentally before the age of 7, and then it only gets worse as they are exposed to their peers’ online activities. Parents out there PLEASE don’t EVER allow devices in isolation - always keep it public.
One thing that bothers me about this "no difference between males and females" trend is that it seems to make demons of normal things about the sexes. It isn't ok to be pushy if you're male, and it isn't ok to be congenial if you're female. Apparently being feminine is now a problem that I'm supposed to overcome, so that I can get a job as an engineer or something.
It seems teaching as a profession has become one of the career options for people who can't find a better job. It used to be a wholesome respected profession.
I've been watching interviews of these two great ladies recently and thought, man it would be great to listen to them talk about these topics together. So excited to watch this!
Great interview. Excellent guests. You did a very good job with this interview. Thoroughly enjoyable.
4 роки тому+14
This should be a period for parents to gather evidence because their children will need their help when the litigation against education authorities begin years down the line.
Kids go through puberty, social emotional, physical chaos and turmoil. For "adults" to present some sort of cure or solution "oh I know. You're actually not a girl/not a boy". We can fix that for you.
We are experiencing the most widespread gaslighting in the history of humanity. I've always wondered how it was possible for entire nations to descend into madness (eg. Germany, Cambodia) but never dreamed that it would be this easy. Human susceptibility to mass indoctrination from idea pathogens would be absolutely fascinating if it were not so tragic.
This is such an important conversation. My soon-to-be 12 year old recently came to me to have a discussion about her pronouns. She was under the impression that because she was “different” than the other girls that she wasn’t a girl, she was a “Demi-girl.” I had to try to navigate the delicate conversation about how being different than the other girls doesn’t mean that she is trans. I feel like this movement is erasing the experiences of women who might feel different, by telling them the reason why they are different is because they are trans. At first she was upset and had the idea that I was one of the typical bigots “rejecting that non-binary exists.” I feel fortunate that my daughter is an only-child, and I’m a single mom, so we are very close and feel comfortable having this conversations. But
It was very tricks trying to simultaneously “validate her experience” while setting the record straight with respect to the lunacy of our times. I’m frightened going forward that she will continue to be indoctrinated.
My 18-year-old experiences gender dysphoria (possibly from a female predator) and identified as demiboy for a time. Also bristled if I referred to them as "my daughter". Preferred he/him pronouns for a time, but has settled with they/them right now.
Gender dyphoria is a real thing, but my proudly tomboy wife (no really, she proudly calls herself a tomboy) and I have never seen such a stringent view of sex phenotype and identification ("gender" is scientifically vague).. our parents' generations rather fought for broader, more inclusive definitions. But that's not what we're getting, at all.
Well why don't we just let children mature into young adults, it's confusing enough being human without the imposition of these gender unicorn ideologies... educators really need to get a life.
Also I'm sorry to hear... the indoctrination is very sick and also proving very effective. This is our future world at stake here... and your situation is heartbreaking.
I think the most important thing to convey is that you love her and are truly acting out of selfless love. If she sees that you are behind her 100% and you are able to keep an open dialog going that is saturated with logical and reasonable explanations of what she is experiencing, the indoctrination won't stick. Teaching kids how to think, not what to think, is the way to go.
It's "funny" (actually it's not) how that progressive movements are lacking any logic. I thought that we should be fighting stereotypes about sex or gender. You know - you can be a perfect, normal woman, if you love kick-boxing or soccer and you can be a normal guy if you like fashion or opera. But now? If a boy acts feminine it's a sign that he needs a transition, or if a girl acts like a boy - the same. It's so, so stereotypical! It's against all the things that we (I mean, progressive, liberal people) were fighting for. To be youself, to be happy, no matter, what you look like or act like. And you don't have to change your sex, gender or anything, you can be yourself as a woman or a man. We don't need 100 new genders to accept that people behave in a 100 different ways.
I was hoping someone would get Soh and Shrier together. This is great!
this menage a trois with two thinking women was great, Ben should have more.
Me too I can't believe I haven't found this sooner
+RadomAussieGuy87 It's a pretty obvious transphobe team up.
Hi Benjamin... I TOTALLY AGREE with Abigail on the point that children are being taught to be "too in touch" with their feeling 24/7... and it is producing a self-centered/anxious/depressed generation that cannot (or will not) consider the feelings/thoughts of others... I remember being in middle school (in the 70s) and my Health teacher telling us (girls) to read Judy Blume "Are You There God It's Me Margaret"... LOL... how times have changed... It just breaks my heart to think what these girls (that have transitioned w/o the full knowledge of what it actually means) will have to face when they realize what they have actually done... I look forward to reading both Abigail's and Debra's books... THANK YOU Benjamin for sharing this great conversation with us all!!! Take care... and wear BLUE more... it brings out your eyes!!! :o)
This phenomenon is described in The Coddling of the American Mind. The way youngsters are taught to process their emotion is the exact opposite of the principles of CBT (cognitive behavioural therapy)
Eric Weinstein had a good take on this in that we have developed critical thinking as a way to resolve bias and contradiction from our decision processes, but we are lacking in developing critical feeling to resolve bias and contradiction in that kind of emotional decision making.
@@PothePerson Love that book btw, and yes. Everything SJW is: do this thing, and if it's not working, do the same thing harder. They are getting children while they're developing and confused about everything and tell them to fully trust or faithfully trust their emotions which is the most volatile part of themselves. Then when they get more confused they say, here....join a group of other extremely confused people and whatever you agree on is now truth. If anyone else says otherwise, they're an -ist/-phobe, and you have carte blanche to do violence upon them, because their simple disagreement is equivalent to violence to you.......that escalated quickly, just like Evergreen State, or CHAZ, or 2020 in general.
I have encountered at least one UA-camr who is talking about how transitioning was a mistake. Ryan.. I forgot her last name. Of course there are trans folk that are pleased they transitioned (Blaire White is another UA-camr that comes to mind) but there are people that decided to detransition, and they do get criticized for speaking out about it.
@@marcelinedupuis8623 Gen Xer there. Narcissistic abuse is rife in my family of origin, stretching back 2 or 3 generations that I can find. I think emotional literacy is lacking. I'm struggling to get my emotional understanding caught up to my rational understanding, and complex PTSD is part of that. I was raised with little to NO boundaries and a lot of toxic criticism and emotional incest. My wife and kids are now having to deal with the ugly narcissism of my mother (and for a time, my maternal grandmother, but she died last June).
It's not that they don't understand the scientific method, they actively oppose it, this is about ideological purity.
loving this
I have a friend who's young daughter was convinced she was "trans", ... on a high school sponsored 2 week "camping trip"... it's insidious...
I just want to follow up with some more information about my friend's situation and his daughter. When he told me about this he explained thus: They (him and his wife) knew she was a lesbian because she "came out" a couple of years before (13-14). They had been letting her visit a woman, a "trusted" neighbor-friend and she would frequently "have sleep-overs" which began when she was around 10. (I guess this woman would host "sleep-over parties" with the neighborhood kids, or so they thought.) They later found out the woman was a lesbian, which was fine. After his daughter "came out" as lesbian and they subsequently found out the neighbor was lesbian, they began to suspect the woman had been "grooming" her and possibly molesting her.
Fast forward to age 15-16, their daughter has joined the school's LBGT club. They get a notice that the high school is sponsoring a 2 week camp for LGBT kids and they allow her to go. When their daughter gets back from it, she tells them she has "realized" she is "trans". They also found out that she had been "convinced" of this by a "trans" camp councilor.
They decide to go to the school and talk to the principal and complain that they felt their daughter was a lesbian and that she was confused. They have the meeting and other "staff" are there, including "LGBT" councilors. After they make their case, they are told, in no uncertain terms, that they are wrong and if they don't affirm and support "transitioning" then the school will move to have the authorities charge them with child endangerment and have their daughter removed from their home!
Well, They sold their house and moved, real quick. This was a couple of years ago. I haven't been in touch lately so I don't know how things stand now.
Where did this take place? Canada?
@@zenzen1892 Maine, USA
@no privacy It's a 'school administrative district' just outside of greater Portland (cough, 6!, cough, cough...). Same about 'live-and-let-live' attitudes here really. Who knows how deep these 'educators' have been indoctrinated but know they can't go full on public crazy with their BS, because of it... yet.
I swear the story I recounted was as my friend told me, the week it happened.
Here is a strange kicker, my friend's wife is "black" (actually, her mother is "black", father is "white", both of them are from Northern Maine, "In The County".
My friend and his wife have moved to north western Maine.
Show me your town and I will show you mine... ;0)
There is UK case of a woman who had a double mastectomy at 14, for which now she terribly regrets.
A child can now decide they are trans and start to make life altering decisions yet we cannot drink or smoke until we are 21. How does any of this make any sense?
I mean, where I live you can do both at the age of 16.
It doesn't
They can't even vote until 18!
In Scotland and the Australian State of Victoria laws have recently be voted in under the guise of being anti gay-conversion laws.
They make it a criminal offence to deny your child's chosen 'gender'.
In Scotland 'they' chose the age of four as the age you lose you guardianship status.
So much for Keira Bell.
History will not forget these brave women. ❤️
2 definitions of normal:
1- The most common
2- Good/ Healthy
The trick the woke play is they pretend we mean #2 when we mean #1 -- luckily for them theres enough morons out there.
I like your stuff man.
Being who you are never gets old. Not “what” you are.
+upperhandMARS History will likely emphasize the transphobic hate agenda in general and depersonalize the propagandist pseudo-science.
History will also not forget the parents who leave their children’s education and moral development to the big bad wolf!
I’m a public middle school teacher who was directed this year by the district to deceive parents at the request of a student “experimenting” with a new trans identity. This is wrong and I will be challenging it. Still looking for the way that opens me up to least amount of risk.
Your honesty and courage are heartening. I'm sure you will eventually figure out the best way to maintain sensible boundaries with both your students and their parents, while keeping your job. I only wish that it were possible for you to be open with your district and community regarding this deceptive strategy. I think a lot of parents and other citizens think that this concept is just another 'right wing conspiracy theory''.
@@michelep6300 So it's the hateful liars who support your hysterical beliefs who are "honest." That's the very definition of confirmation bias.
@@highroller-jq3ix Perhaps you could elaborate a bit. Exactly what do you think are my 'hysterical beliefs'?
@@michelep6300 I can't claim to know the full range of them, though right wing whackadoodlery does tend to bundle conspiracy nonsense. In the current context, however, let's begin with the automatic credibility you grant to the transapocalypse supposedly being underwritten by the "woke" educational system and the "leftist" deep state, in apparent cabalistic conjunction with the American Medical Association, the World Health Organization, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Anthropological Association--the American Federation of Teachers too, I must conclude--and essentially every body and individual practitioner of medicine and science who don't align with fundie rage politics and theofascism. Here's a possibility, the OP is a lying meme.
So how did it go?
I'm a teacher. I can vouch for the occurrence of activist teaching among teachers, especially the young ones. The education system is by and large left leaning already, but these young teachers come in treating everyone like we're Ms. Trunchbulls. For reference, I'm politically moderate which makes me the most conservative teacher at my school.
If a politically moderate teacher, is the most conservative at/ in a school.....then not only is that sad and scary, but either that SCHOOL is doomed, or the kids that go there are.
Sad.
@@DrMathOfficial even left leaning people with diverging viewpoints are considered alt right these days... it’s a wild world
I know young teachers who are absolutely horrified by all this. It depends which end of society you belong to, this is coming from the middle class for sure.
+Laguero No objective, independent thinker on these issues actually believes you.
@@stellercorpse So basically an indoctrinator and propagandist pretending to be an educator.
Is there any way any of you ladies can speak at some of these public schools? My 15 year old started hanging out with a group of kids that decided to be trans and now she thinks she is a boy. The principal at Hoover high school in Glendale Ca. and CV High School in La Crescenta stated that I had no rights and they would continue to call my daughter by a boy name. Well, my husband and I pulled her out of the public school system and put her in a private school. My daughter was diagnosed with Autism 2 months ago and I am happy to report that her Autism is being addressed by her therapy and I have my daughter back! Parents MUST speak up, these school officials do not care about our kids and it is causing chaos!
Great news. I pray she continues to improve.
You are one of the soldiers we need in this fight.
This will go down as the thalidomide event of our generation.
Thought provoking analogy
@@ilfautdanser9121 yes, when the medical scientists think they are God.
@@markkavanagh7377 both create permanent, sometimes grievous, bodily harm to the child while the beneficiaries are adults (trans rights activists, some of the crazy parents like Suzi Green). though as wth thalidomide, parents are mostly unaware of the reality/repercussions. i mean, the mothers that took thalidomide most certainly wouldn't have taken it to ease their morning sickness if they knew the outcome. probably most parents would vehemently refuse transing their child if they understood the truth of the process and outcome and the rubbish "science" behind it. what they don't have in common: doctors prescribing thalidomide would not likely do it again, whereas doctors supporting transing kids seem quite proud of the damage they do.
the biggest thing they have in common: drug companies making lots of money, children being irrevocably harmed by it, and in some countries, like my own, it is not only supported legally but if you try to stop it you could lose custody of your children or even end up in prison. My fellow Canadians, please stand up to Bill C-8!
@@ilfautdanser9121 that's all true. This is scientists believing their own hype and telling kids they can turn blue into red or vice versa when really they just manage to make purple and the kids have to live with the consequences forever after.
In Britain the tide has turned against the trans activists and the Tavistock clinic is now being investigated.
Aye it will and it risks making responsible trans people who do some good in the community hated (and in some countries killed)!
We used to teach people to love themselves for who they are and accept their body as beautiful. Now its all about correcting what is "wrong" or mistaken in its very nature. Accepting yourself is a part of healthy self esteem maturation and a good adult life. When did this simple understanding fall out of vogue? I believe some of this may have come with the advent of plastic surgery becoming so widely accepted. You can essentially turn yourself into a person that bears very little resemblance to your former self if you choose. Why not the opposite sex?
People have forgotten the strength found in self acceptance.
@@mercyferal I get that. I really do. And I think its a worthy undertaking. The soul is where the life springs from, the mind receives, and the body expresses... That's honestly what I mean on a fundamental level. The greatest ancient teachers speak of unifying a strong soul, body, and mind to be the complete expression of one entity. To reject one's own body as incorrect?
...You wouldn't advise anyone to reject their own mind or their own soul. So the disconnect of this lesson seems obvious.
Connection IS the soul expressing itself. As you said, there is nothing to "fix", only express.
I kind of love that you responded with an insightful answer. We need more of that in the world.
You've misunderstood. The effort is still to love what you are. It's just a broader, more tolerant, more open, more aware effort than before. The effort is really about stopping people trying to box others in narrow places. Why do that? Why care?
@@theinhabited Lol. I think we agree and I'm not expressing something correctly... Or maybe not? I will say this. Conversion therapy has been banned for a reason. Once upon a time people would say if your a man and you're attracted to another man then you're mind is wrong for the body you have and they would try to "correct" your mind. Now they say, that if your mind is feminine and your body is male, you should correct your body and make it female.
Both of these things are conversion therapy. One from the far right. One from the far left. BOTH of these things tell you that something about you has to change for you to be acceptable. Its kind of ridiculous that it is being sold as empowerment.
I mean... there were people back in the day who honestly believed they needed to "pray the gay away." If we honestly believe that its not better to be male or female? Then it simply becomes about cosmetic superficiality. Which is fine. As long as we aren't proposing to "fix" something being wrong with a person.
@@alexlilly2393 I misunderstood you, and agree.
Angry Spotify employees have entered the chat...
Oh, noes. Just this morning angry Starbucks employees spit in my coffee as a sign of protest against law and order as it goes.
As of 09:09 UTC, The Boyce of Reason is still to be found on Spotify
Let's see how this unfolds
New focus. If you work for me...you have to share the same opinions.....or you are fired.
Witch hunt era again.....open dialogue is essential for everyone.
As a gay conservative, and recovering from swipes about critical theory...I totally understand the kinds of things they are talking about, especially about being obsessed with “identity.”
I have a gay uncle who's also conservative. I think the conservative party has become much more tolerant than before. I'm a new conservative so I can't speak much on how conservatives used to be, but today they seem very tolerant of gays, more so than the left is tolerant of straights.
@@FJB2020LGB I’ve found those among the gay conservative movement to be more open with varying beliefs. I believe in a traditional view of sexual ethics and marriage, and yet I feel like I wouldn’t be shamed among other gay conservatives, even those who believe differently.
@@alexlindstrom555 so I don’t want to sound bigoted but I have differing views based on religion and conservativism. Religiously marriage is supposed to be between a man and woman because that’s what it takes to give birth and children should have their biological parents, the family is the bedrock of any society. But conservatively it’s none of my business what someone else does and frankly I don’t see why the government should be involved. If you want to get married to a man, how does that affect me? Why is it my business? Just like what you do in your bedroom is no ones business as long as it’s consensual. My experience is that a lot of conservatives tend to think along these lines that as long as your not hurting them, they don’t care what you do. I think conservatives just went to live and be left alone so they can raise their families, whereas the left seems to want to control every aspect of life.
@@FJB2020LGB I have the same bigoted views as you. Lol.
@@alexlindstrom555 oh really? Interesting. Ya know, these ideas used to be common, all throughout history until now it was considered the norm. But recently in our political climate, these ideas are now seen as bigoted. A child should be raised by the parents that created him? A mom and a dad? Nah that’s white supremacy or some shit
Abigail’s book was so informative! Thanks for having her on again.
I've read the book and I'd have to disagree it is extremely misinformed and quite childish constantly blaming popular Transgender figures, putting down the child while building up the parent.
@@jamiestewart6887 what specifically do you think it is misinformed about?
@@jamiestewart6887 I'd actually say that was one of the facets of the book that really opened my eyes the most. I wouldn't say that Abigail blamed these influencers so much as she made it clear they're having an influence. I didn't realize just how much of that there was out there prior to reading her book.
Trust me, Dr. Soh. No one would ever get sick of seeing you.
No, but oversaturation is a real thing.
@@sciencecompliance235 okay?
@Science Compliance Life of the party before the pandemic hit, huh?
@@CChissel You got it.
Only unfortunate women who never got a sausage thrown their way must get bitterly sick of seeing her.
UK situation as I understand it:-
Mermaids have changed their tune in response to a recent Department of Education schools directive which essentially reinstates previous best practice on treating children equally and with dignity without making assumptions about their 'gender identity'.
They are now instructing schools not to use materials provided by organisations claiming that children can be born in the wrong body or to use gender stereotyping as a basis for suggesting to children that they are trans. It also says not to let such organisations run training for teachers. (Praise the Lord and pass the biscuits)
The guidelines also make clear that parents must be involved at all levels of decision making. Lots of training materials for schools provided by Mermaids and other trans advocacy groups explicitly tell the school NOT to tell parents anything about what they are doing to children who they are describing as trans, and imply that the school is the safe place for these children while home is not.
Hopefully safeguarding for 'trans' children will also now be reinstated as they have often been excluded from standard practice because it has been deemed transphobic to investigate the underlying reasons why a child might express a dislike of their body.
Mermaids have been dropped by the BBC as a resource they link to in their 'if you have been affected by any of the issues in this programme' stuff.
Mermaids are rewriting history now by deleting stuff and claiming, for example, they never equated toy choices with trans identity in children. Unluckily for them there are plenty of alert people who have archived and taken screen shots so the evidence remains. Also, of course, there is Susie Green's TED talk which explicitly shows that her husband didn't like their little boy's toy choices and that his disapproval was key to their child thinking he should have been a girl.
I think we need to raise a glass to celebrate the hard work of a great many women and some men who have doggedly kept on about this despite suffering shocking harrassment, death and rape threats and all the other abuse trans activists throw at them.
I think the only appropriate way to teach comprehensive sex education MUST start with basic human anatomy.
I’m so grateful for both of these ladies! We started having ROGD with our daughter and tried the “affirm” route that most therapists tell you to go. Our teen daughters’ anger and distance towards us grew and she was seriously thinking transitioning to “feel better.” When I read Abigail’s book it helped us better understand the situation. Then I found Dr. Debra Soh’s work and that was such a help as well.
We took her advice and things we learned from both of them and our daughter is doing so much better. She is more connected to us then online influencers and seems more sure of herself as a female.
I’m so glad to hear this! 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
Abigail's book is often dismissed out-right and it uses perceived or legitimate shortcomings/errors of the book, to just ignore the blatantly true and frightening truths within the book.
The people that need to be reached by the book are often too unwilling to admit there is a problem and they use anecdotal reasoning to dismiss certain claims of the book.
People hating the book and not listening to any arguments in good faith, is so frustrating.
The strawmanning towards it, goes beyond naivety or ignorance, it is just blatant misrepresentation and it appears insidious.
"She misgenders people, therefore her motives are hateful and all her talking points are TERFy, therefore it is all inaccurate and can be dismissed without a well-formed argument."
That is what I see. Everyone is taking apart the weaker aspects or misrepresenting it, and all the really tough parts, they don't even bring them up, and if they do, they gloss over or downplay it.
I am sure there are flaws within her book, and it should be criticised, but I would love to hear a trans person or trans activist respond to the ideas proposed in the book. Do they genuinely think the entirety of the book is baseless?
Interesting to hear about helicopter parenting at the end. I heard someone recently saying that the current gen of teenagers have such accepting parents that they have no way to rebel.
You could look at Jonathan Haidt and his book "Coddling of the American mind".
There are a few 1 hour lectures of him about that book. In that book in the such lectures, he discusses a few things that resulted in the uproar that happened on US campuses, one of them being helicopter parenting. In most lectures he also says a few words as to why helicopter parenting is often unwise. If you have not heard of him and/or his book, I am curious if you find it interesting.
Kids in the 89's and 90's started being supervised 24-7 with very little 'free range' time to work out the vicissitudes of social hierarchies, problem solving and independence. It's only worse now. I don't see parents being accepting.
You can still rebel. I'm Gen X. My parents were very permissive. My friends were like, "They're so cool." I was like wtf? They should be parents not cool. My sister and I rebelled against the whole "whatever goes" thing.
@@Bob-jm8kl good for you. A lot of kids in your situation would instead become young tyrants demanding everything and, naturally, narcisistic. I've always found having certain rules and boundaries to be good. Even as a kid, when I resented the fact that my parents didn't give me certain toys, or that other kids had certain toys despite being rude, I could still aknowledge the value of not having too much. I gave importance to what I had and fully explored it, and also valued what I didn't have.
@@stopthephilosophicalzombie9017 here's my thing, I want my children to have the ability to rebel because they live in a safe community, but with all the terrible stuff around us, like the variety of leftist ideologies, i know I can lose my child very easily. Its hard not to be a helicopter parent when I know how toxic these ideologies are.
It's a nightmare, same experience. My daughter, after a really dark, dark period (lasted at least 3 years) came out as trans when she was 14. In Italy the problem is exploding now and nobody is ready to help. And if you talk about it in concern you're accused of bigotry. Any Italian family is reading my message to talk about it? I feel so scared and alone
I hope you can find somebody to talk to about this; I'm so sorry you and your daughter are going through this.
Find parents’ videos online from people who have had the same problem!! I’ve seen them on UA-cam and they could be helpful. Good luck.
I love how Debra and Abigail suddenly started to interview each other hahaha. Yeah, those activists keep saying this whole stuff has nothing to do with us """""CIS""" women, but this subject has everything to do with being a women... any type of women. We all know how it is to be a girl in this world and... guess what? Girls that transition also have all these experiences in common with us, despite trying so hard to say they're men.
I love these two together sharing experiences.
I’ve decided to treat the CIS prefix as a slur. I don’t accept their terms.
@@Individual_Lives_Matter It is. I reject it.
I wouldnt be surprised if your channel isnt bigger because of some algorithmic shenanigans on UA-cam part. Your videos would be hard to pull apart because you speak with professionals of many different fields, your interviews are non combative, you dont do anything that could be outwardly misconstrued as hateful or trolling (aside from the joke video here and there), you're respectful, and you dont have extreme takes to where you could easily be labeled "alt-right" or whatever.
You're a gem Benjamin! This channel probably makes them very nervous up there at the top.
Very good! 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
"I wouldn't be surprised if your channel isn't bigger *than it is* because of some algorithmic shenanigans on UA-cam's part." Is that what you meant?
Great listen!!
That nastiness and dismissal of people sharing regret and detrans experiences reminds me so much of how heartless the cult mentality among vegans seem to make these compassionate animal defenders… cruel attacks, unwilling to listen to those who report ill health on a vegan diet… 😥
This will happen when a genuine search for truth and a good life is hijacked by narcissism. I m o. Happens throughout history… and so very visibly and obviously now.
I consider myself to be trans. However, when I was a teenager, there is no way that I would have been able to emotionally handle making a transition. I agree with these women 100%.
WOW Benjamin!! Nice work getting Debra and Abigail on. You got the chance to speak to them and WE got the change to see all three of you together! Excellent discussion, thank you so much for your hard work.
28:46 oh man, that dad trying to turn his daughter trans to get a jab at the step mom is one of the sickest stories I've heard in this whole fiasco
Debra Soh, I will never get sick of hearing from you. You make too much sense. Same for Abigail.
I wonder if these women object to being called “guys”? Benjamin.
I think "dudes" would have been going too far.
The stereotype used to be that anti-intellectualism, pc culture, anti-comedy came from religious culture. Given the rise of Christian philosophy through the works of Plantinga, WL Craig, Alex Pruss, Rob Koons, Josh Rasmussen, and many others, plus Christian comedy from places like FreedomToons and Babylon Bee, it's so fascinating to see the shift from religious to anti-religious anti-intellectualism.
Two of my absolute favorite authors on this topic: two brave, intelligent women who are not cowed by the deranged mobs. Thank you for bringing clarity on this topic and opening up space for discussion.
Wow, Benjamin! This is fantastic that you can get these 2 awesome women together in one interview.
Dr. Soh is great! I highly recommend her book.
I've read both of their books and I really enjoyed them. But especially dr. Soh's books was very informative!
@@Jabez0 I've seen so many of Abigail's videos and the one thing I keep hoping she'd discuss is how tv is having an influence. With shows like Blue's Clues promoting this stuff to 2-5 year olds, how is this not having an effect on children?
There is about a 1-3% amount of the population that are truly/factually dealing with being transgender. Outside of that, transgender activists are solidifying gender stereotypes, which as a society we’ve been fighting for so long. My son believed he was transgender & one of the reasons was because pink is his favorite color. Girls who don’t care about makeup, fashion, gossip etc. are led to believe they must be men. Trans people generally transition to the MOST stereotypical version of the new gender.
Likes & dislikes do not define people period.
We don’t let people drink or smoke until they are 21 & 18. Why? Because we have agreed as a society that minors/children cannot make decisions to do things that could harm them. They have to wait until their decision making skills are better. This is no different. I support my children’s gender non-conformity. In fact I celebrate individual uniqueness.
It was very tricky to navigate my son’s identity confusion, but I made sure he knew that he was great the way he was, which was a gentle, sensitive, kind, artistic male. That is not the message he was getting from his “research” on UA-cam from transgender people.
These two and a few others are fantastic. The non-biased way this is discussed is so crucial. The unemotional & academic way it’s discussed is also important during this climate.
Wonderful interview, one of the best I've seen! Thank you.
Mr Boyce between two such wonderfully formidable ladies. Bravo to each of you for your courage and fortitude. Ne timeas.
Great show! Thanks for letting the 2 authors interview each other for a bit, too.
I think that when we talk about sexes, we need to know why we are making distinctions. And the reason seems to be procreation. You need a man and a woman to make a baby. That's why humans named them differently. Except for that, we'd just all be people. There are a minority of us who don't fit into that man-woman mold, because we're not reproducing via sex, but I don't see that it requires a massive rewrite of the language and the law.
I look forward to more biology in this discussion.
No, there are a lot of physiological differences between men and women. This was recently discussed with regards to testing and treatment for Covid, but doctors are well aware there are a lot of differences. Historically, women have been endangered by being given medications tested only on males which turned out to affect females differently (e.g Digoxin).
There was an article going around recently about a transman who almost died of kidney failure rather than admit to the doctor that they were biologically female, because the danger limit on tests is lower in females. We have different heart attack symptoms, are far more likely to develop osteoporosis, (women are 80% of cases) etc, etc.
Great job Benjamin, Deborah & Abigail. I'll be sharing this wherever I can.
Wish I cld do more & find it quite strange Boyce's channel isn't larger. I hope anyone who can support him will. He's not one to harp for donations, but boy he deserves them. So, if I can be overt, please contribute if you're able. Thanks!
Boyce hosts wonderful interviews -- I love that he gives full space for thoughtful answers. Soh and Schrier are (bright and beautiful) heroic warriors.
Yes they are and credit to BB for bringing them together.
I tore through Irreversible Damage. So well done, it really shines a light on such an important issue. 10/10 highly recommend!
How can anyone be "okay" with pornography and at the same time acknowledge its negative effects on young minds? As if it didn't have the same effect on adult minds. And as if it wasn't basically films where people get paid instead of giving consent to sex, at least in cases where it's not literally sex slavery behind the camera.
The real question that keeps popping up as we confront the hydra heads of 'social justice' is how do we deal with what social media is doing to us?
Isn't social media ultimately "people"?
The shortcoming is dividing people up into solos of whatever you already "like". Tho UA-cam and Twitter sometimes gives me (actual) Marxist as well as strong SJW videos to go along with liberal anti-woke and some conservative channels.
I honestly try to confuse the algorithms.
Coleman Hughes said he got on Tumbler in high school to meet girls he liked. Depressed people giving each other mental health advice, but also wearing that as a badge of prestige.
Social media is addictive and can be soul destroying and in one case I know of caused a youg girl to commit suicide. Yes its people but people with a skewed agenda
@@gg_rider I think it's encouraging narcissism and enabling sociopathic behavior. Some of the people that have designed it have admitted social media is designed with psychological hooks in mind.. basic behavioral psychology, even. And yes, GOOGS designs with cognitive bias in mind.. their search engine does that, too. They feed you what the algorithm figures you want.
@@jaklumen Yes. Zeynep Tufekci and Tristan Harris make this disturbingly clear.
These are women i can support!! I humble myself
I actually feel so much better listening to this conversation ... I've had gender dysphoria as a teen and im so glad I decided not to medically transition ... No body talks about the fact that medical transition is not the only treatment for gender dysphoria.
Do you undergo a different kind of treatment? If so, what? Just curious.
@@ericaloveskorea It wasnt a treatment for gender dysphoria per se. I had conventional therapies regarding the childhood abuse and family situation which I later realised was mostly, if not completely, the reason I had disassociated from my body and wanted to be someone else.
@@umwha I'm so glad that you were smart and fortunate enough to pursue and actively participate in good therapy.
P Well, nobody except for virtually everyone who is the least bit informed.
Actually, studies on children with gender dysphoria actually shows that the majority of them get better after puberty, and many of them are gay. So transitioning as a "treatment" seems very counter productive to me. Don't fix what isn't broken.
I’m in the middle of Soh’s book right now - EXCELLENT presentation of FACTS. It’s no wonder the radical rage mob are trying to cancel her.
I’ll be getting Shrier’s book when I’m done with Soh’s.
I've never liked the term "assigned at birth", doctors don't assign anything, biology does, what doctor's do is recognize so it should be termed "recognized at birth", we already know the sex before a baby is born, but we still recognize it when the baby comes out.
I'm intrigued by "the End of Gender" as I have already read the Abigail's book. Both courage women, worthy voices to be listened. Thank you for the podcast 😊
This was so amazing being able to see Dr.Soh and Abigail together! Very interesting, I really enjoyed it
Damn, Benjamin's going places.
He's certainly one of the best interviewers. He will have the taboo discussions. And he will find guests and invite them on before other folks do. I'd like more disagreement on the show, but it's already great as is.
Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities - Voltaire
Benjamin: "Gender Trap" issues, discussions, interviews, and critiques are all over the internet, UA-cam, podcasts, etc. Most are marginal. Some are good. Few are great. This one is GREAT. Fantastic job moderating this truly edifying talk between Debra, Abigail and yourself. Congrats.
As someone who is childfree by choice; I'm disappointed that ppl like myself are making the education system and making it difficult for you to speak what we know to be true. Everything you describe is why I was afraid to have children. I am a black woman of lower middle income status. I do not live in the community of my origin. I was very concerned that I would end up in a nonsense situation like this-- child custody on the line-- with no power or resources to fight. I do not have the strength or resources to fight this. I still want a good life. I made the choice the forego motherhood to ensure this... I HATE that you are proving me right...
But still thank you.
I completed the majority of an Ed degree in Canada before deciding that to spend my life living under the thumb of these people would be soul-crushing.
I can tell you that the teachers' colleges are actively promoting the idea that education is a mission to change the world, and that this mission must be understood in terms of the ideology. In their view, all education is ideologically driven, and so it is legitimate to deliberately subvert the social and political "hegemony" by training teachers to train students to see the world in those terms.
Challenging their ideas in class led to bullying by the instructor, which was completely different than I had experienced in other colleges, where probing questions were not only expected but welcomed. I can also say that the professors in my own teaching were less qualified in the subject than I was (BA in English and MA in writing). Across the board, our subject-specific courses did not focus primarily on teaching methodology but on how to teach the subject so as to promote the ideology. This was painfully obvious to me in my methods for teaching English courses, as I could see how much of the subject was either being warped or completely ignored in order to make space for the political agenda.
Overall, the experience was heart-breaking.
Anybody else here leftwing and liberal but COMPLETELY AGREE with this
thank you from France, this is happening here too and I am glad to hear what I have been thinking for a while, and yes. The difficulty is to be able to connect with my daughter without being called transphobe
More than a fad, this is close to the lobotomy scandal.
Spot on.
A great point that should be used often. Where's the Ken Kesey of our generation to dramatize the issue?
It's the western version of FGM
I'd say it surpasses it.
Damn, that thing she said about people are spending too much time thinking about themselves, that's legit! Everybody needs to go touch grass.
once we understand what is really going on being quiet is not an option.
I think what Debra meant when she talked about how hard this topic was to research, & how this was "universal" for women, is that to some extent puberty is awful for all of us. If you asked modern girls if they'd choose to wave a magic wand & be a boy version of themselves, most of us would do it. Nobody WANTS to be the physically weaker, slower, smaller version of human, the version who (we're constantly told) is persecuted, earns less money, has never been US president, is less than 1 in 20 CEOs, & must bear the burdens of menstruation, pregnancy, childbirth, nursing & child rearing. It doesn't help that females are really the only category of so-called marginalized persons who can be openly mocked & ridiculed, particularly by "drag queens" which are the closest we have to a modern minstrel show. P0rn is a huge part of the problem of young girls identifying as boys or LGBTQIA+. We're learning that many girls have very bad first s3xual experiences & reject the objectified stereotypes they see in p0rn, so they wish to dissociate from str8t womanhood. This is the reason for the dramatic increase in mastectomy surgeries.
Lastly, 1 of the best takeaways from this podcast was Abigail's point that young people are just thinking too much about themselves. I've noticed this with patients/ clients & the content we see young people post online. Listen to the videos by any of the so-called influencers in these woke fields, & you'll hear an utter obsession with self. They all claim to have anxiety & depression & they self-identify with 1 or more aspects of LGBTQIA+. When I was in school, the rebellious among us just smoked pot, took acid & skipped class to hangout on the beach or attend raves at the closest university. The rebellious smart kids might've taken too much adderall & bought others' prescriptions for it or the girls might've been an0rexic. But we didn't sit around thinking about our identities. We were, for better or worse, really engaged with the world around us. We had FB & MS but we weren't online 24/7 like these kids are on IG & Twitter. I hope something can be done to help these kids focus outwards, bc nothing good comes from self-obsession
Drag queens aren't about mocking women, traditionally, in the gay community. It's more about gender play and empowerment through ownership of stereotypes. Which are difficult concepts to understand unless you actually know the expreiences of gender-nonconforming gay people.
The moment I found out Dr. Soh read her own book I bought it, I love her voice! (and her work)
The backlash in the UK isn't coming to the US because the UK was never as crazy as the US on this stuff.
Well done Benjamin, two high profile guests at once. Proud of you man.
I read both of their books, and I liked this video before I watched it. Maybe presumptuous of me but your videos never disappoint! OK now I'll watch it.
Wonderful to find you both in one podcast...My son is living with this ideology and affliction. As a parent, I am always looking for solid information that is not biased. Thanks again. We are losing this battle with our children but we are learning to battle with the good info that you provide.
OMG, I have lost custody and this is the first example of anyone else going through what I’ve been going through! I was bullied into consent orders that still said ‘equal shared parental responsibility’ and the other party wrote the document, and despite me saying it was wrong, they described sole parental responsibility. So for five months I have not heard from or seen my daughter because any disagreement is resolved by the father when we can’t agree.
From a very early age I self identified as a "boy". I felt like a boy inside, I liked doing all those boy things......rough housing, sports, frogs and snakes.......and I do remember liking girls.....looking at them and even (but not really understanding why) trying to impress them and liking there attention.
Then years later I grew up ........and now I'm a 6' 235lbs all muscle and man
I guess I self identified properly
Thank you Benjamin, this is an important interview. Well done!
The "collective institution" controlling thought aspect of this whole issue is very troubling to say the least.
I'm out of touch with sex-ed. I am shocked they discuss anal sex in detail. I always assumed when people complained about their sex education they meant the basic biology, STIs, and prophylactics. Oh, this reminds me too of someone in r/antipornography posting that pornography made them so scared of sex that they identified as asexual.
Gen Xer here.. that was largely my school sex ed, but STIs were covered with a lot of fearmongering and prophylactics were barely discussed. I think it was woefully inadequate. Of course there is STRONG reactions against this new sex ed being rolled out, but I think too many parents in my rural-ish small town area would rather just roll over and avoid discussing healthy sexuality. I refused to sign the proposition protesting it: I don't think the proposed curriculum is good, but neither do I honestly expect them to do it right. Mine didn't. They thought exposing the parts on themselves was a good idea when I was way too young (6) to understand, then progressively clammed up when I was old enough. My mother shoved a newspaper article under my nose about prophylactics when I basically had learned how they worked.. and I wasn't even sexually active yet. I will forbear discussing the damage their attitudes brought me.
@@jaklumen oh wow. I'm sorry to hear it. I'm in my late 30s and went to a catholic school. Our first sex ed was in 5th grade, i doubt we got taught about stis until junior high. A lot of the teachers went above and beyond tho telling us about their own fertility struggles. Although, i was really lucky that my parents had homosexual friends. One of my great aunts was a lesbian, but died long before I was born. My point being we never covered homosexuality in school, but many of the girls were out before graduation, and at least a few of the former nuns were considered lesbians. I can't imagine how much more difficult it'd be for me to have come out as bisexual in a different environment. Anyway, since my 20s, i haven't trust men to put condoms on, they never seem to grasp that you need a bit of extra space in them.
I agree with Dr. Soh. If you have the the power to tell children what to think, you have more power to control them. So dangerous. Children need to be taught how to think. Great program. Very necessary information. Great guests, Benjamin.
This discussion is so wonderful and sane & compassionate. Thank you for getting these amazing, smart, sensible women together, Benjamin!
I was so lucky! Their work is prescient and under-appreciated (the latter for being suppressed)
Questions a 7th grade teacher should have to answer: "Are you a licensed therapist?"
i really like the quality of your questions.
Wow man! Nicely done! That’s like the nuclear option on the sex and gender debate, to have both at the same time lol bravo sir; bravo!
The dynamic trio! (Def gonna watch this later!)
Wow... when I taught sex ed in CA in the 1990's, we weren't even supposed to show the boys how to put a condom on a banana! I did it anyway.... but we weren't supposed to! Now they learn um... WHAT exactly??? Lord it's gotten so scary out there.
Two of the most relevant books of 2020, and two of the bravest authors currently around.
A fine, sane chat thank you very much! 🐿
I am a gay man , this kind of stuff is really sickening me , I. Never. In my 61 yrs thought that we would end up here !!! I personally think if any teacher puts her or his personal business in any class room , is. Totally out of control & parents need to step up to these things. !!!
Benjamin Thank You our young victims that they do not know their health is at risk without enough knowledge.
I’m a public school teacher and can attest to the fact that kids are unfortunately seeing porn at much younger ages than “11 and 12”; if they have internet and a device, they are seeing it accidentally before the age of 7, and then it only gets worse as they are exposed to their peers’ online activities. Parents out there PLEASE don’t EVER allow devices in isolation - always keep it public.
Awesome guests!! Was hoping these two would get together.
Excellent interview. Truth will
win.
One thing that bothers me about this "no difference between males and females" trend is that it seems to make demons of normal things about the sexes. It isn't ok to be pushy if you're male, and it isn't ok to be congenial if you're female. Apparently being feminine is now a problem that I'm supposed to overcome, so that I can get a job as an engineer or something.
Why aren't you an engineer yet? Are you a misogynist? 😃
It seems teaching as a profession has become one of the career options for people who can't find a better job.
It used to be a wholesome respected profession.
Follow the money- you have children set on a course of medical/surgical/pharmaceutical treatments for life.
Thank you for your work, guys.
I've been watching interviews of these two great ladies recently and thought, man it would be great to listen to them talk about these topics together. So excited to watch this!
14:52 I choked on my tongue. Blood play? Do high school kids really need to be learning about that? Let them figure some shit out on their own ffs.
Thank you for this!
Great interview. Excellent guests. You did a very good job with this interview. Thoroughly enjoyable.
This should be a period for parents to gather evidence because their children will need their help when the litigation against education authorities begin years down the line.
Millennial here! Thanks for the conversation.
Fantastic interview of two amazing researchers. Thanks so much for making these interviews possible, Benjamin.
wonderful discussion!
Kids go through puberty, social emotional, physical chaos and turmoil. For "adults" to present some sort of cure or solution "oh I know. You're actually not a girl/not a boy". We can fix that for you.
Good video Boyce 'n' girls.
We are experiencing the most widespread gaslighting in the history of humanity. I've always wondered how it was possible for entire nations to descend into madness (eg. Germany, Cambodia) but never dreamed that it would be this easy. Human susceptibility to mass indoctrination from idea pathogens would be absolutely fascinating if it were not so tragic.
14:50 I thought nothing could shock me anymore. I was wrong.
They're teaching kids about fuckin BLOODPLAY in school? WHAT?!