Great review as always. I’d be interested in a review from you of the new Indian Challenger compared to this. Thanks for your reviews. Thanks to you I went with the AT over the Norden. While it’s a nice do it all bike, I may end up getting a dedicated cruiser and something like a KTM 500 or 300 Rally for dirt. Missing out this weekend though. At the hospital with a Crohn’s flare-up but will be back to riding soon! I know you understand how that can be. Thanks for everything you do Ian! I appreciate you.
I got a 790 ADV, and then added a KTM 500 xcf-w (plated). Now I want to get rid of the 790 for something more like a AT, but a 1290 Adventure S is VERY tempting.
I’m coming from a long list of GS’s and Bonnevilles and strangely enough, I don’t find the ST to be that uncomfortable. Yes, it does have that “cruiser slump” which can be remedied with a more pulled back riser or bar combo. But my back doesn’t seem to mind the high pegs and I don’t know why. I guess it maybe depends on the lenght of your torso and arms. I am also 5’11, 32” inseam and with the stock setup my shoulders are just a tad rolled forward. Bringing the bar 2 inches closer makes me totally upright. And when upright, the lower back and hip bend ratio ceases to be too tight.
Geez the first thing I would do is put a saddleman seat taller bar risers raise the suspension and put a two into one exhaust before I got it home.and I’ve done that to all my bikes in my garage 😅
Please do more Harley reviews. The problem with Harley reviews is that they're often done by Harley lovers and they're always full of praise. I prefer a Harley review by a non-Harley guy like you because I trust the review more. I suggest Street Bob and Fat Bob next please.
What's to trust? If you're into Harleys (or want to be), you're telling me this non-Harley rider's opinion is going to persuade you one way or the other? Don't make me laugh! Oh--wait--maybe you'll buy an Indian instead? Haha-haaa!
@@rayfriedman9625 and here lies the problem with the Harley community. Drink the Kool aid and live by the Kool aid. The OP is correct. If Harley wants to reach out to non Harley riders they need to send bikes to non Harley riders. The Harley community is one of the reasons why people stay away from Harley.
@@rayfriedman9625 yup, kinda my point with die hard Harley riders only doing reviews. It's kinda like North Korea doing reviews on North Korea. Only say what the party thinks.
As a motorcyclist who is brand agnostic and has had bikes from all categories I recently bought my first Harley Davidson (M8 Softail) and I agree with a lot of the points here. Overall, I absolutely LOVE the bike, the riding experience and the style. I know HD gets a lot of hate from riders who aren't into the cruiser aesthetic but there is something special about them. The smiles per mile factor is pretty high.
It's a strong, positive testament for Harley-Davidson to have the courage and confidence to offer its products to an impartial, albeit non-HD enthusiast, solid moto-journalist with a reputation for thorough and objective product reviews. I've watched nearly all Big Rock Moto reviews and am always impressed by your thoughtful, detailed and concise offerings. I always learn a lot about motorcycling! Thanks.
One really would think so. But once you've had one of the many many many that have had tons of issues you get soured a bit. I have this bike and its had tons of things wrong or falling apart etc that a new bike should simply not have and the way most of the dealerships have been handling it has been LESS than what one expects or should get, especially considering the premium price you pay just for the name ontop of the what the bike is actually worth in the total cost.
Great review. Harley has clearly vastly improved their bikes over the years. I gave up on them when my evo ultra classic fragged the engine a $600 tow bill & $4500 repair bill (90’s dollars) from anywhere on a 100 degree day. Replaced it with a BMW that I sold a fat boy to fund and never looked back. BTW, pullback bars & a backrest makes the feet forward position all day comfortable.
I Love the looks of these and probably the only Harley (Pan America excepted) that I would ride. My main issue (and yes I’ve ridden a Harley before) is the stupid peg position. It’s not dynamic or even particularly comfortable. Even these ‘mid’ pegs are way too forward. Put the pegs in the position for proper control of a motorcycle and Harley might actually get some younger customers. For a motorcycle this expensive to not come with premium, fully adjustable suspension is outstandingly crap too.
Depends how tall you are. If you are taller than 5.7, even mid controls will give you cramps. This is just a nature of low-seat cruiser in general. As for suspension, well... welcome to "premium brand" LOL... I own Iron 1200, the now extinct, with forward controls and that's the only somewhat comfortable position. And as you said, except maybe Pan America, no plans on overpaying for any other HD offering any time soon. Those bikes simply way too expensive for what they are if you are not bound by some MC rules or something.
I ride adventure bikes and have a Harley Softail Deluxe. 90% of the time my rides are short, after work jaunts and the 90% of the time I jump on the Harley. Looks great, love the grunt... wouldn't want to ride it more than an hour or two. I think of it as an old muscle car vs a new BMW M3... each has a place. As usual, great review Ian!
Actually Harley Started this style back during the FXR Days. Nothing holds the road, especially in high crosswinds better than Harley-Davidson Motorcycles with all that engine weight down low. Also nobody offers as much customization at the factory and dealership as H-D. Having ridden them for 30 years I know a bit about them. Having said that I love my 2021 T7.
Appreciate taking a stab at something that's not your cup of tea, and the cope from comments is palatable. Regarding comfort, this is why you'll see guys on the West coast have 6-10" risers into a moto-bar. Due to the front-end rake, they controls come back towards you. Try a customized one if you can.
I would say this bike is in the same marketing segment as the Triumph Rocket 3, and it is pale in comparison. The Triumph has more power, control, and electronic enhancements. Way more bang for your buck on the Rocket.
I got an impression that Harley Davidson is a toy instead of a modern bike for sport and long haul tour. Look, sound, power, lack of safety and hi tec, old boys wish list in steel and chrome
I'm so glad you talked about the seating position not being the most comfortable - most people think I'm crazy for saying foot forward controls are not comfortable due to my hips being too cramped. Glad I can point them to this video instead.
unless you are me. Having my left knee cramped up under me with rear set pegs hurts after a short ride. Ill take a forward control bike every time. Different flavors for different needs.
Harley make a catalogue that fixes that. I added pullback risers to short dude foot controls to my 2015 Fat Bob. Perfect. Nearly. Still 1 foot down at lights.
@@DerpEye You couldn't be more wrong. That's why the aftermarket parts companies are able to exist. Just go on ANY forum and you will see it. Yes, there are a handful of people that don't like spending the extra money or their stature just fits the bike they bought, or they just put up with it, but modding a motorcycle is common throughout. It's just that some brands have way more options than others.
I ride a Himalayan in India year round. But in USA I bought a Road king and on long US rides on interstates and highways it was great for up to 500miles a day. Next time I am home I will adjust the handle bats though as I don't like the outstretched arms
I tried this same bike a few weeks back and agree with the windshield. Despite many reviewers saying "it's amazing and you don't feel any wind at all!" there definitely was the wind pushing right onto my visor (I'm 176cm or 5'9" for reference) at speeds over 100 km/h which are really the speeds that you need a windshield at in the first place. Fortunately it wasn't terrible because indeed there wasn't that much turbulence, but to say you are in a windfree pocket is a major overstatement
These videos are really well done, man. I mean that truly, as I'm someone that practically lives on UA-cam watching videos and reviews and yours always stand out for me.
Great review. I've owned and ridden Harleys (and Hondas, Kawasakis, BMWs, KTMs) for 30 years, and the leg to seat position is the primary ergonomic issue. My H-D XR1200 is significantly better, with rearsets closer to below the seat and a higher seating position. The Pan America is an excellent choice for the "sport-touring" rider, and the new engine is a MONSTER.
Don’t like the riding position. But the bike appears to have several features that provide easy upgrade paths via subsequent improvements to the base model and/or via Screaming Eagle upgrades. My 02 Triumph Daytona 955i with a Matt Capri Stage one tune puts out more than 60% HP and is noted for its solid engine, smooth handling and broad power curve. Got mine with 12K miles. Only problem is I only saved about $17K over the Lowrider. Got to give it to HD for generating lots of revenue by trickling out incremental improvements. But I could add a track bike and still have $10k or so left. See you at the next traffic light. 😎
Great review! I really appreciate the fact that even though you clearly wouldn’t have one in your garage you can give a in-depth review. Not my thing either but honestly I think it may be one of the coolest looking bikes period! If I had a ton of money I’d get one just to look at and take on short rides.
Great material! Could you do some unusual session about using some other types bike for touring?? Just as an experiment. Example cb650R. Is this reasonable if someone is in love with those bikes but would like to travel on it??
You can travel on anything really. I would recommend to rent the bike you like for a day and go riding for 300-400 km. If the bike is comfy enough for you to ride for one hour in a row, or if you see an easy fix which would allow you to be comfortable on it for an hour then it's totally fine for touring. Of course on a dedicated touring bike you'll be much less tired in the end of a long ride. Another thing to keep in mind is luggage, think about how you are going to take stuff with you. For example if there are no cases offered on the bike, are there any mounting points to attach a net, etc... Touring with a backpack on the back is very uncomfortable for most people, so as a very least you need to be able to strap your backpack to the back seat.
That motorcycle is good but I just don't like that fairing. Never liked it on the road glide and same here. The batwing fairing is much better than this.
First 5 mins kind of summarized my issue with the seating position, the then the heavy weight, then the pretty high cost makes it even less desirable for me. It is a good looking machine and I would like to maybe give it a ride but not sure I'd want to buy one. Great review and the filming was very cool too. I think your comment on the traction control was also spot on.
I enjoy your reviews but I also enjoy seeing people who don't traditionally ride HDs review them. I started riding MCs on Harley b/c that's what my friends would ride. I eventually tried some Euro bikes and added a Ducati Monster to my garage. I found out all about lean angle and I was hooked. I sold my HD and Monster (b/c it was used and problematic), bought a BMW RT and didn't look back for several years after another Ducati and then Triumph Speed Triple. Tried another HD for about 6 months and then back to Ducati on a Multi. I've been on that style of bike since about 2015. I do love HDs but after having ridden other bikes, the seating position is an adjustment and I find pain in my lower back after 15 minutes on a demo ride.
I rode this bike several times, ergonomics killed it for me. Not only the rider triangle, but at 6'1" my right shin was in constant contact with the air cleaner and was quite painful. I loved the handling and power, but couldn't justify dropping $25k plus on a bike that I would then have to spend $2-3k more to make it fit me, between pegs, air cleaner, bars and windshield.
It's funny how you don't like things Harley riders don't care about (weight, handlebar set up: that's something everybody will change) and you like things Harley riders don't like (the stock sound of the exhaust for instance). But it is refreshing to see a difference perspective. Great review.
I'm 80 yrs old and have been riding, off and on, since 1955. I've never wanted a HD. To me they're over priced, too heavy and too big. There are fans galore, and many toe-dippers who bought the myth, hence, they bought the bike, yet don't like them. There are rifts of used HDs for sale, at any time in any decade; but then, thru 1950s-1970s, what other choice was there? For those who want them, buy what you like. For me, Triumphs, BSAs, and Nortons were what I wanted and got thru 1962. Honda's revolution of the motorcycle industry was God's gift to the motorcycle riders. My most favored bike of all time was Yamaha's '78 1100E; shaft drive, tubeless tires, shimmed valves, straight seat, ride like a Cadillac, and Deluxe rode-eater. Motorcycles are like guns, buy what fits you, out of the factory. The failure of HD has always been that thousands of customers had to modify the motorcycle to fit them. It's ridiculous to have to modify a brand new motorcycle to fit you. It is a FU to the consumer. HD has had that attitude for decades.
Has the quality of engine components and manufacturing tolerances improved. There is a huge aftermarket industry putting right what Hardley gets wrong. Crank run-out, sumping etc etc. I'm not meaning to be disrespectful but I've always thought these engines were very short life low quality units. Am I wrong and have they improved Ian?
Great job on this. I think your direction of reviewing different bikes is great. I’m a fan of the same type of bikes as you so it’s nice to see what you think of other types
I have never owned a HD but have come to appreciate their role in the market and given more space, time and $$ would consider having one in my garage. I would think there are handlebar and seat options, etc to address ergonomic challenges.
I got an 07 street bob - I think because of the seating position these bikes really benefit from a windscreen or a fairing - something mine currently doesn't have. I'm 5"10 and I have to lean forward a lot to open the throttle up to stop the acceleration pushing me back in the seat. This Low Rider ST is probably a lot sportier and better handling than mine, but I love mine anyway.
I can buy a cheap VW TAOS, at 6' 5" tall, and not have to modify ANYTHING, for it to fit me right as a driver. Everything, steering wheel, seat, tilt, sunroof, is adjustable. HD is holding out on us, screwing customers with having to modify with expensive parts, in the name of "customizing it" or "making it your bike". It's the Royal Scam by Harley Davidson.
Went from a Sportster to a Triumph Scrambler to a Tiger to a Norden 901 to a Low Rider ST. On the ADV's I always felt like I was sitting on my nuts. On the ST I actually feel like I'm sitting down and I'm not crushing my nuts every time I come to a stop or take long rides. I'm 6ft 1, 205lbs.
Great review. They added traction control with the 23 model year as an option. I believe it’s standard now on all 24 models. I bought a 23 FXLRS and traction control was a must have. Bought a pull back plate so I’m not bent forward to reach the bars.
I will NOT buy a baby of a Sport glide and a Low Rider S… Not even if my life was depending on it… HD caters to the west coast and their fat wallets. I do own a 2020 RKS 114 and will NEVER buy an unfinished bike ever again. Thankfully I have a BMW GS HP😀
I have bar risers and lowered foot pegs on my BMW RT. Cruiser, sport touring or touring no bike is perfect out of the box. I have buddies that modified the seat, pegs and handlebars on $30k BMW K1600s
Haven't even sat on one yet,but if and when I do,I'll know immediately if this bike is for me or not.Hate the cheesy digital display.The bare looking cockpit should have housed full instrumentation like the road glide.A choice of chrome appearance should have been offered.Other than that,it's a nice looking bike.Priced a little too high imo.Thank you Ian.👍👍
Okay, I read most of the comments, and there's a lot of negativity on display here. The reviewer's comments display a little lack of understanding about what can be done with the riding position. The handlebars can be adjusted back with a pullback riser. The midmount foot pegs can also be exchanged for forward controls if you desire. Now for the Harley homer syndrome some of you are concerned about. I am on my 15th motorcycle. I've owned Hondas, Yamahas, Suzukis, Kawasakis, Hodakas, Victorys, a Bultaco, and 1 Harley Davidson. My Harley is a 2017 Ultra Limited, which was the 1st year for the Milwaukee 8 engine. I have 40,000 miles on it, with zero mechanical or electrical failures. I will also say that I resisted buying a Harley largely due to some Harley owners. Many are just a-holes who treat riders of other brands really badly. I decided to give Harley a try when Victory went out of business. What I will tell you is this. Owning a Harley means you have multiple options for any change you want to make. From dress up parts, performance parts, or whatever you want, there' are many options to choose from. The dealerships carry a huge selection of these, or you can visit harleydavidson.com and ha e any of it shipped to your front pourch. If you own other brands, you're left to scramble for most of these. So, yes, there are a few douchie Harley owners, but if you give a Harley a try, you could well find out you enjoy the experience. Please remember, All Brands have some douchie owners. Our tester is a little behind the times with some of his comments. He mentioned that the brakes were much better than he anticipated. He indicated that Harley's are notorious for weak brakes. Harley started using Brembo brakes in the early 2000s. So, our reviewer is referencing an issue that was fixed 20 years ago. Non Harley owners love to bash the brand and often site problems that were engineered out of the brand long ago. And yes, I was a Harley hater before becoming a Harley owner. If you don't like Harley's, you're entitled to that opinion, and I respect that. From personal experience, once I tried one, I was impressed with the brand. A Harley will NEVER be the fastest bike, but they are rock solid for cruising and touring. They are also good for people who would try to ride a sport bike beyond their capabilities. And no, I am not bashing sport bikes because I had 2 of them. But at some point in my mid 30s, sport bikes just lost their appeal for me. I would recommend a test ride for anyone who's on the fence about a Harley. Harley dealerships will always allow a test ride if you ask for it. Who knows, you'll either fall in love, or you'll at least know first hand what it is you don't like...good luck!!!
you are way too generous the on HD folks. HD is not a good choice for anything but the look....maybe. long distance - not really, comfort - not really, tech - not really, weight - omg....why? power - WHAT POWER? sound - that's mostly ego removing stuff and straight piping. sitting position....not ergonomic. HD folks are the one who can't stop talking about moder bikes when they see one. "my grandfather had one, father had one, and I have one on 21st century" Hard to understand reasoning really.... Also....why HD folks don't like to be passed by...well...most other bikes? They ride slow tractor on roads....it's a common sense they will be passed, but they just can't take it. I'm a motorcyclist. . they are bikers.. big difference. Do I hate HD or bikers? NO! It's their ride, their choice and money....but I have issue if they are willing to kill for passing them....How dumb is that?
Awesome, unbiased and honest review. I own a Harley Road Glide Special with full Ohlins suspension, motorcross handlebars, and basically stock 114 engine and love it. Kind of similar to this bike but much more comfortable. I also own a 2020 Africa Twin with the DCT and I installed the optional foot shifter. Love it too. Love your channel. Keep it up!
I had a HD Low Rider (2015?) and loved it. However, the mid-leg position was one of those things that I learned to hate. I don't know if the faring changes anything, but on the naked bike, the wind stream would push my knees outward. For short jaunts around town I'd never notice. But getting on the highway for any period of time, I'd get serious thigh fatigue fighting against the wind stream. It got to the point of considering velcro on my inner knees to hold them in on bike so I could relax my muscles while on cruise control. For folks considering these cruisers, they're fine bikes. But make sure your road test includes some highway miles to see if that feeling bothers you.
Just being honest here. And this may happen because of hd popularity. Just because we become Harley owners doesn’t mean a Harley is the bike for us. Harley’s are definitely not the bike for really “whiney” super particular individuals. These motorcycles get purchased, from the showroom floor ? Leaking oil. And then folks want to complain about the messy oil they have to deal with. It is… the way.. these motorcycles are designed and their owners should be aware of this “before” they buy. These bikes are for the guys and gals that want a working (mechanical) relationship or connection with their bike. They are definitely not for the individual who is going to whine about leaks, tire wear, riding position or noise/vibration. These bikes are the most highly customizable motorcycles for a reason. You simply customize, not complain, but customize. Then, you talk or make a video about how you made your Harley fit “you”. It’s not a Honda, not a Suzuki ? Buy the bike, ! Then, hush and ride the dang thing. Customize what you don’t like about it ? The. Ride the dang thing some more. 👍
Riding position looks ridiculous. Kind reminds me of my brother's V-star 1100 custom where the knees sit. I'm still bitter there will never be another Victory Cross Country...being 6'3" it has be best legroom and foot position. Oddly Indian's now are just as cramped as Harley's for tall riders and dont' share my bike's ergonomics, even though Indians are rebadged with tweaks. Hope my 2012 Vic XCT stays running...it was the perfect mount for a 2 week run through Minnesota, North/South Dakota, Montana, Idaho, Wyoming. That was such an epic trip.... Cheers!
Ian is a good, honest, comprehensive reviewer. And, yes, there is is a "but." He waved his hand(s) within view of the camera. I find it reminiscent of Mr. Electric Bicycle Review (EBR logo) on UA-cam also. Maddening! Distracting! And...so off-putting that I look away and merely listen. Eesh!
My problem with cruisers is on the two i have, a Yamaha Road Master and a HD VRod, I scrape the pipes and floorboards on both of those motorcycles. I really like to dig into corners, picked that up from sport bikes.
Here's some reality. On that bike, all other HD "family " will mock you for Being on a chick bike because you don't ride the exact same bager as them. It's a real thing. Dealers will rip you off in ways you can't even imagine. Ie, red rock harley has a speical, new bars installed $1,599 . And that's on sale! I refuse to ride the same bike as every other overweight, white old man , constantly reving my $30k bike because that's all it's capable of. The cool Harley is a thing of the past... long gone and won't be back. Because of the HD dealers' robbery and fake " I'm a biker " bs from the old dudes I will never buy, ride or work on a HD. HD and everything connected is a clown show.
You have the rider position critique correct. I had a 2019 Lowrider and had to change the handlebar to help me sit back some, and the seat to help change my leg position. I tried to make mine a touring bike but it never worked out. I now have a Goldwing and a Africa Twin, so no discomfort on any ride now.
best review on this bike I've seen. I love the no nonsense information delivery. The walk around at the beginning, especially the dedicated riding position part of the video, was so helpful. Most people just review a bike while sitting on it and riding, and riding position is one of the most important things to me. I wish Harley made a bike similar to this with a more upright position (or Indian, but Indian is even worse with their Scout and Chief).
Kinda fun to look at... same tech and style for decades.... as for riding... not so much. I worked at HD stealership in Cajun Country Louisiana. I am so glad I got to work there. I learned that never, ever, never , ever ever never ever.... would I own a HD...why? Cause I like to ride, not sell my first born to keep bike on the road. COME ON MAN!!! ....seriously? ....take engine apart to change rubber band drive belt.... and the list goes on and on and on and on. On top of all that, around here anyway, its not about the ride, its a fashion show and look-alike contest as to whom can attain the best pirate look. Ok, rant over... back to great MC reviews by BRM!
A significant percentage of HR riders simply don’t want complex electronics, like traction control. It seems that sport and ADV riders generally love all the tech they can get, with 8 rider modes, etc. For many of us, all,that electronic crap just guarantees that the bike will become obsolete as soon as the manufacturer no longer supports the electronics. Personally I have a couple Harleys that are more than 20 years old, and are simple and reliable.
The only classic cruiser that I’ve ridden that felt quick, and I’ve ridden all,of them like M109r stage 2 tune), VROD, Raider, etc., was the VMAX. I don’t consider the new Rocket III or the Diavel classic cruisers.
I have a bmw 1250gs .... about 6 months ago had a go low rider s completely fell in love .... put forward control's on it change the exhaust it make's it 100 time's better ..... in 4 months my gs has done 15 mile's the hd is bike of chose every time .... no traction control is going back to old school biking like when you did when you was young .. the bmw is great but it's too safe ....
SO what would happen if you got one of these and moved the pegs backwards and got different bars that put your hands in the right place? Would that handle better and be more comfortable, or would that not work right on a Harley, with the weight distribution being different from a traditional sport touring bike?
Nice review Ian. I also own and enjoy a variety of motorcycles including a Road King and an adventure bike. What drives me broke is Harley gear only looks and feels right on a Harley.
Absolutely, and in that price point it is lacking a lot of stuff. For this price it should be atleast a stage 4 as standard and have footboards plus better suspension.
No LED signals - up charge for anything other than black. A huge company like HD and they can't offer color options for the same price. I could understand metallic or some cool graphics edition, but just plain gray should not be extra.
You know what I don't like? If you pull the clutch, you have no gear indication anymore. So if you are at a roadcrossing and you didn't look to the gear indicator before you pulled the clutch, you don't know in which gear you are. Funny.
I Will buy a 2023 low rider st. I am 6 foot, have long arms, I sit straigt up with my back on it. The mid controls I Will try to get used to it, have heard it Can take a littel time to get use to, but It Will be great and good controls in corners. Think is very good looking bike, love all the things you Can use this bike for, and it is good in motorway with the wind shield. You still get Wind, but it is good Wind, and it is comfortable.
Ian, I know it's counter intuitive, but this bike is WAY more comfortable with the foot pegs farther FORWARD! They call these mid controls, but to me with this seat height, it feels like my knees are in my ears, and I'm only 5'8"! You'd have to raise the seat height about 6 inches to put them where you were thinking. They did do that at one point; it was called the XR1200.
Another thing sport bike riders might not be able to appreciate regarding Harleys.. is even though the sport bikes are generally faster.. the Harley is much heavier and it’s feels much different.. you feel more planted
No quickshifter. No traction control. No electronic suspension. No riding modes. No phone connectivity. For 22k dollars. No thank you. You can buy a proper bike for that amount of money.
Was wondering if you’d ever review Harley's beyond the PA. Wanted to like this bike enough to buy one but I can tell it’s too small for my 400 year old ass. 2020 Road Glide Limited with the 131 kit and 132 rwhp/144 ftlbs does me just fine. Plus I’m pretty sure the numbers Harley puts out are at the crank and not at the rear wheel. Decided to go with a 2023 DR650 for my first ADV type bike in 44 years, sold my Yamaha DT400B about the time I bought my first Harley FLH. The DR will be a bit small but can be easily modded, just add cash. Still thinking BMW GSA after I build some off-road miles on the DR.
good review, question, do you think your changing view of the big torque cruisers is due to the bikes improving or perhaps you are moving into the target demographic for the model.
Is there really a point to review something that effectively doesn't exist? Same story as with Ford Bronco. These are not cheap to begin with and with dealer markups.. well, I don't really want to sell a kidney to get one.
I’m not a cruiser guy either but my wife is and if you wanna make the wife happy sport touring cruiser but your right about position , just check out what the racers do ?? Bagger racing ? They change the position of the controls for performance , bagger racing 😂
One other comment. The right side bag doesn't match the left due to exhaust pipe but honestly there is a load of space there and they just look stupid not being matched up. I would not buy this bike for that reason alone. This mismatch aggravates me.
WHY are we still getting replies to our comments from someone impersonating you, asking us to contact "you" through Telegram for "prizes"? Is there no way for UA-cam to stop these guys?
Nothing wrong with Harley bikes. They need to do something about their dealerships. Was just looking at a 2022 Road King. $10k over MSRP. 😂 And, at least at the dealership I was at, the sales process is strange. They will not give the out the door price of a bike. They kept telling me it ‘would be on the bill of sale’. Had to talk to the head finance person to get an actual price. Complete waste of time.
We are in strange times. Supply and demand.. They will sell for what people are willing to pay. I own a 2018 Road Glide Special and it is probably my last Harley. I bought it below MSRP new and negotiated a 30% discount on accessories.
@@BigRockMoto Hope so. Instead, went with a Kawasaki Versys 1000. I’ll pick it up this Thursday. Ur vid on that bike was very helpful. I appreciate that. I know, two completely different bikes…won’t bore u with the details.
I've ridden Harleys for 30 years, never bought a new one. Always from individuals. Bought a 2020 Road glide special in February with a thousand miles and about 6k in upgrades for several thousand less than a stock new one.
Where is the laughing emoji? Seriously? They are the worst performing, handling, unreliable POS I have ever come across. And yes I have ridden quite a few Harleys.
I think the pegs are fine in regards to how forwards they are but agree that they are too high. Causes discomfort in the hips. Your knees shouldn’t be higher than your hips when riding. Shorter riders, 5’8” or less are fine.
For me a giant TFT dash isn't a deal breaker, l like old school analog dials. But the dash setup on this bike, at 30 grand, is pathetic. Call it a style piece or whatever, but the 'tech dash' is sad at this price point.
The seat is too low for a sport bike type of arrangement. I believe most people would be more comfortable with a forward rather than mid type, foot setting.
It has to be a complete downpour for you to feel it. At highway speed in rain and speeding up to 80 it will momentarily bog down for a second. You can just throw a rain sock over it. I believe the ST comes with one.
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Ian, no drop/lift test????
With the optional drop guards it would have been pretty easy.
We’ll give him a pass on this beast
If you drop a harley you just leave it there and buy a new one :p
@@renano95 , only if you are wimpy office worker.
@@renano95 , even a girl can pick up a full touring bike. ua-cam.com/video/-V-kw2zUkSI/v-deo.html
Great review as always. I’d be interested in a review from you of the new Indian Challenger compared to this. Thanks for your reviews. Thanks to you I went with the AT over the Norden. While it’s a nice do it all bike, I may end up getting a dedicated cruiser and something like a KTM 500 or 300 Rally for dirt. Missing out this weekend though. At the hospital with a Crohn’s flare-up but will be back to riding soon! I know you understand how that can be. Thanks for everything you do Ian! I appreciate you.
Feel better!
I got a 790 ADV, and then added a KTM 500 xcf-w (plated). Now I want to get rid of the 790 for something more like a AT, but a 1290 Adventure S is VERY tempting.
I’m coming from a long list of GS’s and Bonnevilles and strangely enough, I don’t find the ST to be that uncomfortable. Yes, it does have that “cruiser slump” which can be remedied with a more pulled back riser or bar combo. But my back doesn’t seem to mind the high pegs and I don’t know why. I guess it maybe depends on the lenght of your torso and arms. I am also 5’11, 32” inseam and with the stock setup my shoulders are just a tad rolled forward. Bringing the bar 2 inches closer makes me totally upright. And when upright, the lower back and hip bend ratio ceases to be too tight.
thanks, good info
Agreed on moving bars back. It made all the difference on my RG. It's the only bike in my garage that I can ride all day without pain.
Geez the first thing I would do is put a saddleman seat taller bar risers raise the suspension and put a two into one exhaust before I got it home.and I’ve done that to all my bikes in my garage 😅
Man where are you riding? The view is awesome.
No braided brake lines, probably not hydraulic clutch, not shaft drive, centerstand? make your hands numb after a few hours riding?
Why din't you do the drop and lift test with this bike?🤣🤣🤣🤣 I don't specially like this kind of bikes but great video BTW!
Thank you for an honest review. What state do you live in? It's beautiful country.
He lives in CA, not entirely to sure where though. I think Socal from his Aprilia episode.
@@Cabooseified Thank you, so nice there.
I agree you about the setting position, sucks.
how are those gloves? i have been eying them. My old gloves are about to bit the bucket.
Please do more Harley reviews. The problem with Harley reviews is that they're often done by Harley lovers and they're always full of praise. I prefer a Harley review by a non-Harley guy like you because I trust the review more. I suggest Street Bob and Fat Bob next please.
Agreed thanks
What's to trust? If you're into Harleys (or want to be), you're telling me this non-Harley rider's opinion is going to persuade you one way or the other? Don't make me laugh! Oh--wait--maybe you'll buy an Indian instead? Haha-haaa!
@@rayfriedman9625 and here lies the problem with the Harley community. Drink the Kool aid and live by the Kool aid. The OP is correct. If Harley wants to reach out to non Harley riders they need to send bikes to non Harley riders. The Harley community is one of the reasons why people stay away from Harley.
@@Cabooseified Bit of an Echochamber isn't it?
@@rayfriedman9625 yup, kinda my point with die hard Harley riders only doing reviews. It's kinda like North Korea doing reviews on North Korea. Only say what the party thinks.
As a motorcyclist who is brand agnostic and has had bikes from all categories I recently bought my first Harley Davidson (M8 Softail) and I agree with a lot of the points here. Overall, I absolutely LOVE the bike, the riding experience and the style. I know HD gets a lot of hate from riders who aren't into the cruiser aesthetic but there is something special about them. The smiles per mile factor is pretty high.
If you love turning fuel into sound they're brilliant! And you can get the experience of being on a HD at idle by sitting on a washing machine.
@@flippy66 Wrong. This bike will dust you and your crotch rocket unless it says Ducati on it. Which yours does not. Class dismissed.
@@243wayne1 you're funny.
@@IndyMotoRider It WILL dust you.
It's a strong, positive testament for Harley-Davidson to have the courage and confidence to offer its products to an impartial, albeit non-HD enthusiast, solid moto-journalist with a reputation for thorough and objective product reviews. I've watched nearly all Big Rock Moto reviews and am always impressed by your thoughtful, detailed and concise offerings. I always learn a lot about motorcycling! Thanks.
Still behind the 8-ball and asking to much for the name.
One really would think so. But once you've had one of the many many many that have had tons of issues you get soured a bit. I have this bike and its had tons of things wrong or falling apart etc that a new bike should simply not have and the way most of the dealerships have been handling it has been LESS than what one expects or should get, especially considering the premium price you pay just for the name ontop of the what the bike is actually worth in the total cost.
Great review. Harley has clearly vastly improved their bikes over the years. I gave up on them when my evo ultra classic fragged the engine a $600 tow bill & $4500 repair bill (90’s dollars) from anywhere on a 100 degree day. Replaced it with a BMW that I sold a fat boy to fund and never looked back. BTW, pullback bars & a backrest makes the feet forward position all day comfortable.
I Love the looks of these and probably the only Harley (Pan America excepted) that I would ride.
My main issue (and yes I’ve ridden a Harley before) is the stupid peg position. It’s not dynamic or even particularly comfortable. Even these ‘mid’ pegs are way too forward. Put the pegs in the position for proper control of a motorcycle and Harley might actually get some younger customers.
For a motorcycle this expensive to not come with premium, fully adjustable suspension is outstandingly crap too.
Depends how tall you are. If you are taller than 5.7, even mid controls will give you cramps. This is just a nature of low-seat cruiser in general. As for suspension, well... welcome to "premium brand" LOL... I own Iron 1200, the now extinct, with forward controls and that's the only somewhat comfortable position. And as you said, except maybe Pan America, no plans on overpaying for any other HD offering any time soon. Those bikes simply way too expensive for what they are if you are not bound by some MC rules or something.
I ride adventure bikes and have a Harley Softail Deluxe. 90% of the time my rides are short, after work jaunts and the 90% of the time I jump on the Harley. Looks great, love the grunt... wouldn't want to ride it more than an hour or two. I think of it as an old muscle car vs a new BMW M3... each has a place. As usual, great review Ian!
Well said
Great Discription Of Bikes HeLps me Decide, GLad You Left Comment.... i`m Leaning Towards a.d.v StyLe Bike Now. But This Do's Look CooL.
Actually Harley Started this style back during the FXR Days. Nothing holds the road, especially in high crosswinds better than Harley-Davidson Motorcycles with all that engine weight down low. Also nobody offers as much customization at the factory and dealership as H-D. Having ridden them for 30 years I know a bit about them. Having said that I love my 2021 T7.
My Milwaukee 8 powered 2018 Sport Glide at 700+ lbs rode like sh*t in gusty crosswinds. No comparison to my BMW 1250 RT.
Appreciate taking a stab at something that's not your cup of tea, and the cope from comments is palatable.
Regarding comfort, this is why you'll see guys on the West coast have 6-10" risers into a moto-bar. Due to the front-end rake, they controls come back towards you. Try a customized one if you can.
I would say this bike is in the same marketing segment as the Triumph Rocket 3, and it is pale in comparison. The Triumph has more power, control, and electronic enhancements. Way more bang for your buck on the Rocket.
With that "Dashboard" at $22k I'm not sure who should be embarrassed more, HD or the people who buy the bike...
I got an impression that Harley Davidson is a toy instead of a modern bike for sport and long haul tour. Look, sound, power, lack of safety and hi tec, old boys wish list in steel and chrome
I'm so glad you talked about the seating position not being the most comfortable - most people think I'm crazy for saying foot forward controls are not comfortable due to my hips being too cramped. Glad I can point them to this video instead.
But the good thing about Harley is that you can make easy mods to make the bike fit anyone. Not every bike can do that to the same degree.
unless you are me. Having my left knee cramped up under me with rear set pegs hurts after a short ride. Ill take a forward control bike every time. Different flavors for different needs.
Harley make a catalogue that fixes that. I added pullback risers to short dude foot controls to my 2015 Fat Bob. Perfect. Nearly. Still 1 foot down at lights.
@@revilok8698 Most bikes don't need being modded though.
@@DerpEye You couldn't be more wrong. That's why the aftermarket parts companies are able to exist. Just go on ANY forum and you will see it. Yes, there are a handful of people that don't like spending the extra money or their stature just fits the bike they bought, or they just put up with it, but modding a motorcycle is common throughout. It's just that some brands have way more options than others.
I ride a Himalayan in India year round. But in USA I bought a Road king and on long US rides on interstates and highways it was great for up to 500miles a day. Next time I am home I will adjust the handle bats though as I don't like the outstretched arms
No slip showed your bias more than: "but in normal motorcycles... I shouldn't say 'normal." In most motorc-- In some motorcycles..."
I'm a cyclist (gravel and mountain) human-engine, but come here to dream.....this bike is dreamy !!!
Totally agree re riding position. BMW made the same mistake on their cruiser
Your view is beautiful! Where in California are you?
Nice review! Your riding commentary content is some of the best. Although I would probably never own one of these, it is a good looking bike.
I tried this same bike a few weeks back and agree with the windshield. Despite many reviewers saying "it's amazing and you don't feel any wind at all!" there definitely was the wind pushing right onto my visor (I'm 176cm or 5'9" for reference) at speeds over 100 km/h which are really the speeds that you need a windshield at in the first place. Fortunately it wasn't terrible because indeed there wasn't that much turbulence, but to say you are in a windfree pocket is a major overstatement
These videos are really well done, man. I mean that truly, as I'm someone that practically lives on UA-cam watching videos and reviews and yours always stand out for me.
Great review. I've owned and ridden Harleys (and Hondas, Kawasakis, BMWs, KTMs) for 30 years, and the leg to seat position is the primary ergonomic issue. My H-D XR1200 is significantly better, with rearsets closer to below the seat and a higher seating position. The Pan America is an excellent choice for the "sport-touring" rider, and the new engine is a MONSTER.
Don’t like the riding position. But the bike appears to have several features that provide easy upgrade paths via subsequent improvements to the base model and/or via Screaming Eagle upgrades. My 02 Triumph Daytona 955i with a Matt Capri Stage one tune puts out more than 60% HP and is noted for its solid engine, smooth handling and broad power curve.
Got mine with 12K miles. Only problem is I only saved about $17K over the Lowrider.
Got to give it to HD for generating lots of revenue by trickling out incremental improvements. But I could add a track bike and still have $10k or so left.
See you at the next traffic light.
😎
Great review! I really appreciate the fact that even though you clearly wouldn’t have one in your garage you can give a in-depth review. Not my thing either but honestly I think it may be one of the coolest looking bikes period! If I had a ton of money I’d get one just to look at and take on short rides.
Thanks
Mmm hmm--that's one way to rationalize it.
I’m getting towards the older side and appreciate that it’s lighter than the touring bikes. I would so do one.
Great material! Could you do some unusual session about using some other types bike for touring?? Just as an experiment. Example cb650R. Is this reasonable if someone is in love with those bikes but would like to travel on it??
You can travel on anything really. I would recommend to rent the bike you like for a day and go riding for 300-400 km. If the bike is comfy enough for you to ride for one hour in a row, or if you see an easy fix which would allow you to be comfortable on it for an hour then it's totally fine for touring. Of course on a dedicated touring bike you'll be much less tired in the end of a long ride. Another thing to keep in mind is luggage, think about how you are going to take stuff with you. For example if there are no cases offered on the bike, are there any mounting points to attach a net, etc... Touring with a backpack on the back is very uncomfortable for most people, so as a very least you need to be able to strap your backpack to the back seat.
That motorcycle is good but I just don't like that fairing. Never liked it on the road glide and same here. The batwing fairing is much better than this.
First 5 mins kind of summarized my issue with the seating position, the then the heavy weight, then the pretty high cost makes it even less desirable for me. It is a good looking machine and I would like to maybe give it a ride but not sure I'd want to buy one. Great review and the filming was very cool too. I think your comment on the traction control was also spot on.
I enjoy your reviews but I also enjoy seeing people who don't traditionally ride HDs review them. I started riding MCs on Harley b/c that's what my friends would ride. I eventually tried some Euro bikes and added a Ducati Monster to my garage. I found out all about lean angle and I was hooked. I sold my HD and Monster (b/c it was used and problematic), bought a BMW RT and didn't look back for several years after another Ducati and then Triumph Speed Triple. Tried another HD for about 6 months and then back to Ducati on a Multi. I've been on that style of bike since about 2015. I do love HDs but after having ridden other bikes, the seating position is an adjustment and I find pain in my lower back after 15 minutes on a demo ride.
Agreed
I rode this bike several times, ergonomics killed it for me. Not only the rider triangle, but at 6'1" my right shin was in constant contact with the air cleaner and was quite painful. I loved the handling and power, but couldn't justify dropping $25k plus on a bike that I would then have to spend $2-3k more to make it fit me, between pegs, air cleaner, bars and windshield.
Also 6'1" thanks for the info.
It's funny how you don't like things Harley riders don't care about (weight, handlebar set up: that's something everybody will change) and you like things Harley riders don't like (the stock sound of the exhaust for instance). But it is refreshing to see a difference perspective. Great review.
How well does the headlight work at night?
I'm 80 yrs old and have been riding, off and on, since 1955. I've never wanted a HD. To me they're over priced, too heavy and too big. There are fans galore, and many toe-dippers who bought the myth, hence, they bought the bike, yet don't like them. There are rifts of used HDs for sale, at any time in any decade; but then, thru 1950s-1970s, what other choice was there? For those who want them, buy what you like. For me, Triumphs, BSAs, and Nortons were what I wanted and got thru 1962. Honda's revolution of the motorcycle industry was God's gift to the motorcycle riders. My most favored bike of all time was Yamaha's '78 1100E; shaft drive, tubeless tires, shimmed valves, straight seat, ride like a Cadillac, and Deluxe rode-eater. Motorcycles are like guns, buy what fits you, out of the factory. The failure of HD has always been that thousands of customers had to modify the motorcycle to fit them. It's ridiculous to have to modify a brand new motorcycle to fit you. It is a FU to the consumer. HD has had that attitude for decades.
Traction control is for lousy drivers only
I believe the bike has traction control just not the rest of the RDRS system which includes TPMS, lean sensitive IMU , hill hold
Has the quality of engine components and manufacturing tolerances improved. There is a huge aftermarket industry putting right what Hardley gets wrong. Crank run-out, sumping etc etc. I'm not meaning to be disrespectful but I've always thought these engines were very short life low quality units. Am I wrong and have they improved Ian?
I feel they have improved
Great job on this. I think your direction of reviewing different bikes is great. I’m a fan of the same type of bikes as you so it’s nice to see what you think of other types
I have never owned a HD but have come to appreciate their role in the market and given more space, time and $$ would consider having one in my garage. I would think there are handlebar and seat options, etc to address ergonomic challenges.
I got an 07 street bob - I think because of the seating position these bikes really benefit from a windscreen or a fairing - something mine currently doesn't have. I'm 5"10 and I have to lean forward a lot to open the throttle up to stop the acceleration pushing me back in the seat. This Low Rider ST is probably a lot sportier and better handling than mine, but I love mine anyway.
Price is ridiculous though
I can buy a cheap VW TAOS, at 6' 5" tall, and not have to modify ANYTHING, for it to fit me right as a driver. Everything, steering wheel, seat, tilt, sunroof, is adjustable. HD is holding out on us, screwing customers with having to modify with expensive parts, in the name of "customizing it" or "making it your bike". It's the Royal Scam by Harley Davidson.
Went from a Sportster to a Triumph Scrambler to a Tiger to a Norden 901 to a Low Rider ST. On the ADV's I always felt like I was sitting on my nuts. On the ST I actually feel like I'm sitting down and I'm not crushing my nuts every time I come to a stop or take long rides. I'm 6ft 1, 205lbs.
Harley Davidson isn't a MOTORCYCLE, but a "LIFESTYLE"...
So the LOOKS are EVERYTHING among anything OVERALL 😊...
Great review. They added traction control with the 23 model year as an option. I believe it’s standard now on all 24 models. I bought a 23 FXLRS and traction control was a must have.
Bought a pull back plate so I’m not bent forward to reach the bars.
I will NOT buy a baby of a Sport glide and a Low Rider S… Not even if my life was depending on it… HD caters to the west coast and their fat wallets. I do own a 2020 RKS 114 and will NEVER buy an unfinished bike ever again. Thankfully I have a BMW GS HP😀
I have bar risers and lowered foot pegs on my BMW RT. Cruiser, sport touring or touring no bike is perfect out of the box. I have buddies that modified the seat, pegs and handlebars on $30k BMW K1600s
Haven't even sat on one yet,but if and when I do,I'll know immediately if this bike is for me or not.Hate the cheesy digital display.The bare looking cockpit should have housed full instrumentation like the road glide.A choice of chrome appearance should have been offered.Other than that,it's a nice looking bike.Priced a little too high imo.Thank you Ian.👍👍
Okay, I read most of the comments, and there's a lot of negativity on display here. The reviewer's comments display a little lack of understanding about what can be done with the riding position. The handlebars can be adjusted back with a pullback riser. The midmount foot pegs can also be exchanged for forward controls if you desire. Now for the Harley homer syndrome some of you are concerned about. I am on my 15th motorcycle. I've owned Hondas, Yamahas, Suzukis, Kawasakis, Hodakas, Victorys, a Bultaco, and 1 Harley Davidson. My Harley is a 2017 Ultra Limited, which was the 1st year for the Milwaukee 8 engine. I have 40,000 miles on it, with zero mechanical or electrical failures. I will also say that I resisted buying a Harley largely due to some Harley owners. Many are just a-holes who treat riders of other brands really badly. I decided to give Harley a try when Victory went out of business. What I will tell you is this. Owning a Harley means you have multiple options for any change you want to make. From dress up parts, performance parts, or whatever you want, there' are many options to choose from. The dealerships carry a huge selection of these, or you can visit harleydavidson.com and ha e any of it shipped to your front pourch. If you own other brands, you're left to scramble for most of these. So, yes, there are a few douchie Harley owners, but if you give a Harley a try, you could well find out you enjoy the experience. Please remember, All Brands have some douchie owners. Our tester is a little behind the times with some of his comments. He mentioned that the brakes were much better than he anticipated. He indicated that Harley's are notorious for weak brakes. Harley started using Brembo brakes in the early 2000s. So, our reviewer is referencing an issue that was fixed 20 years ago. Non Harley owners love to bash the brand and often site problems that were engineered out of the brand long ago. And yes, I was a Harley hater before becoming a Harley owner. If you don't like Harley's, you're entitled to that opinion, and I respect that. From personal experience, once I tried one, I was impressed with the brand. A Harley will NEVER be the fastest bike, but they are rock solid for cruising and touring. They are also good for people who would try to ride a sport bike beyond their capabilities. And no, I am not bashing sport bikes because I had 2 of them. But at some point in my mid 30s, sport bikes just lost their appeal for me. I would recommend a test ride for anyone who's on the fence about a Harley. Harley dealerships will always allow a test ride if you ask for it. Who knows, you'll either fall in love, or you'll at least know first hand what it is you don't like...good luck!!!
you are way too generous the on HD folks.
HD is not a good choice for anything but the look....maybe.
long distance - not really, comfort - not really, tech - not really, weight - omg....why? power - WHAT POWER? sound - that's mostly ego removing stuff and straight piping.
sitting position....not ergonomic.
HD folks are the one who can't stop talking about moder bikes when they see one.
"my grandfather had one, father had one, and I have one on 21st century" Hard to understand reasoning really....
Also....why HD folks don't like to be passed by...well...most other bikes? They ride slow tractor on roads....it's a common sense they will be passed, but they just can't take it.
I'm a motorcyclist. . they are bikers.. big difference.
Do I hate HD or bikers? NO! It's their ride, their choice and money....but I have issue if they are willing to kill for passing them....How dumb is that?
Awesome, unbiased and honest review. I own a Harley Road Glide Special with full Ohlins suspension, motorcross handlebars, and basically stock 114 engine and love it. Kind of similar to this bike but much more comfortable. I also own a 2020 Africa Twin with the DCT and I installed the optional foot shifter. Love it too. Love your channel. Keep it up!
thanks!
I had a HD Low Rider (2015?) and loved it. However, the mid-leg position was one of those things that I learned to hate. I don't know if the faring changes anything, but on the naked bike, the wind stream would push my knees outward. For short jaunts around town I'd never notice. But getting on the highway for any period of time, I'd get serious thigh fatigue fighting against the wind stream. It got to the point of considering velcro on my inner knees to hold them in on bike so I could relax my muscles while on cruise control. For folks considering these cruisers, they're fine bikes. But make sure your road test includes some highway miles to see if that feeling bothers you.
Quit complaining, or maybe you should quit riding altogether. Perhaps buy a bike that says Barbie on it...
@@243wayne1 asshat comment #2, let's see how many more I can find.
Just being honest here. And this may happen because of hd popularity. Just because we become Harley owners doesn’t mean a Harley is the bike for us. Harley’s are definitely not the bike for really “whiney” super particular individuals. These motorcycles get purchased, from the showroom floor ? Leaking oil. And then folks want to complain about the messy oil they have to deal with. It is… the way.. these motorcycles are designed and their owners should be aware of this “before” they buy. These bikes are for the guys and gals that want a working (mechanical) relationship or connection with their bike. They are definitely not for the individual who is going to whine about leaks, tire wear, riding position or noise/vibration. These bikes are the most highly customizable motorcycles for a reason. You simply customize, not complain, but customize. Then, you talk or make a video about how you made your Harley fit “you”. It’s not a Honda, not a Suzuki ? Buy the bike, ! Then, hush and ride the dang thing. Customize what you don’t like about it ? The. Ride the dang thing some more. 👍
Harley should put a quickshifter on this bike and a reverse gear for parking. That would be perfect.
Riding position looks ridiculous. Kind reminds me of my brother's V-star 1100 custom where the knees sit. I'm still bitter there will never be another Victory Cross Country...being 6'3" it has be best legroom and foot position. Oddly Indian's now are just as cramped as Harley's for tall riders and dont' share my bike's ergonomics, even though Indians are rebadged with tweaks. Hope my 2012 Vic XCT stays running...it was the perfect mount for a 2 week run through Minnesota, North/South Dakota, Montana, Idaho, Wyoming. That was such an epic trip....
Cheers!
Ian is a good, honest, comprehensive reviewer. And, yes, there is is a "but." He waved his hand(s) within view of the camera. I find it reminiscent of Mr. Electric Bicycle Review (EBR logo) on UA-cam also. Maddening! Distracting! And...so off-putting that I look away and merely listen. Eesh!
My problem with cruisers is on the two i have, a Yamaha Road Master and a HD VRod, I scrape the pipes and floorboards on both of those motorcycles. I really like to dig into corners, picked that up from sport bikes.
Here's some reality. On that bike, all other HD "family " will mock you for Being on a chick bike because you don't ride the exact same bager as them. It's a real thing. Dealers will rip you off in ways you can't even imagine. Ie, red rock harley has a speical, new bars installed $1,599 . And that's on sale! I refuse to ride the same bike as every other overweight, white old man , constantly reving my $30k bike because that's all it's capable of. The cool Harley is a thing of the past... long gone and won't be back. Because of the HD dealers' robbery and fake " I'm a biker " bs from the old dudes I will never buy, ride or work on a HD. HD and everything connected is a clown show.
You have the rider position critique correct. I had a 2019 Lowrider and had to change the handlebar to help me sit back some, and the seat to help change my leg position. I tried to make mine a touring bike but it never worked out. I now have a Goldwing and a Africa Twin, so no discomfort on any ride now.
best review on this bike I've seen. I love the no nonsense information delivery. The walk around at the beginning, especially the dedicated riding position part of the video, was so helpful. Most people just review a bike while sitting on it and riding, and riding position is one of the most important things to me. I wish Harley made a bike similar to this with a more upright position (or Indian, but Indian is even worse with their Scout and Chief).
Kinda fun to look at... same tech and style for decades.... as for riding... not so much. I worked at HD stealership in Cajun Country Louisiana. I am so glad I got to work there. I learned that never, ever, never , ever ever never ever.... would I own a HD...why? Cause I like to ride, not sell my first born to keep bike on the road. COME ON MAN!!! ....seriously? ....take engine apart to change rubber band drive belt.... and the list goes on and on and on and on. On top of all that, around here anyway, its not about the ride, its a fashion show and look-alike contest as to whom can attain the best pirate look. Ok, rant over... back to great MC reviews by BRM!
A significant percentage of HR riders simply don’t want complex electronics, like traction control. It seems that sport and ADV riders generally love all the tech they can get, with 8 rider modes, etc. For many of us, all,that electronic crap just guarantees that the bike will become obsolete as soon as the manufacturer no longer supports the electronics. Personally I have a couple Harleys that are more than 20 years old, and are simple and reliable.
The only classic cruiser that I’ve ridden that felt quick, and I’ve ridden all,of them like M109r stage 2 tune), VROD, Raider, etc., was the VMAX. I don’t consider the new Rocket III or the Diavel classic cruisers.
VMAX is an upright sport bike. Definitely not a cruiser.
I have a bmw 1250gs .... about 6 months ago had a go low rider s completely fell in love .... put forward control's on it change the exhaust it make's it 100 time's better ..... in 4 months my gs has done 15 mile's the hd is bike of chose every time .... no traction control is going back to old school biking like when you did when you was young .. the bmw is great but it's too safe ....
SO what would happen if you got one of these and moved the pegs backwards and got different bars that put your hands in the right place? Would that handle better and be more comfortable, or would that not work right on a Harley, with the weight distribution being different from a traditional sport touring bike?
Nice review Ian. I also own and enjoy a variety of motorcycles including a Road King and an adventure bike. What drives me broke is Harley gear only looks and feels right on a Harley.
Nope way too expensive
Absolutely, and in that price point it is lacking a lot of stuff. For this price it should be atleast a stage 4 as standard and have footboards plus better suspension.
No LED signals - up charge for anything other than black. A huge company like HD and they can't offer color options for the same price. I could understand metallic or some cool graphics edition, but just plain gray should not be extra.
Worked on Harleys for 26 years and your right most riding positions are awful
Ps great channel
You know what I don't like? If you pull the clutch, you have no gear indication anymore. So if you are at a roadcrossing and you didn't look to the gear indicator before you pulled the clutch, you don't know in which gear you are. Funny.
I Will buy a 2023 low rider st. I am 6 foot, have long arms, I sit straigt up with my back on it. The mid controls I Will try to get used to it, have heard it Can take a littel time to get use to, but It Will be great and good controls in corners.
Think is very good looking bike, love all the things you Can use this bike for, and it is good in motorway with the wind shield. You still get Wind, but it is good Wind, and it is comfortable.
Ian, I know it's counter intuitive, but this bike is WAY more comfortable with the foot pegs farther FORWARD! They call these mid controls, but to me with this seat height, it feels like my knees are in my ears, and I'm only 5'8"! You'd have to raise the seat height about 6 inches to put them where you were thinking. They did do that at one point; it was called the XR1200.
Another thing sport bike riders might not be able to appreciate regarding Harleys.. is even though the sport bikes are generally faster.. the Harley is much heavier and it’s feels much different.. you feel more planted
No quickshifter. No traction control. No electronic suspension. No riding modes. No phone connectivity. For 22k dollars. No thank you. You can buy a proper bike for that amount of money.
Great review, it is spot on. I just bought one and am working on adjusting items to make it work for comfort, like starting with a forward seat.
It's another Ergo-Hell from Harley just like my Deuce was. The layout was intolerable. I had to replace everything.
Was wondering if you’d ever review Harley's beyond the PA. Wanted to like this bike enough to buy one but I can tell it’s too small for my 400 year old ass. 2020 Road Glide Limited with the 131 kit and 132 rwhp/144 ftlbs does me just fine. Plus I’m pretty sure the numbers Harley puts out are at the crank and not at the rear wheel. Decided to go with a 2023 DR650 for my first ADV type bike in 44 years, sold my Yamaha DT400B about the time I bought my first Harley FLH. The DR will be a bit small but can be easily modded, just add cash. Still thinking BMW GSA after I build some off-road miles on the DR.
Great!
good review, question, do you think your changing view of the big torque cruisers is due to the bikes improving or perhaps you are moving into the target demographic for the model.
Over priced pieces of cra....
A Honda 15+ years old VTX1800 V twin will blow the doors off any Harley and brake better also.
Is there really a point to review something that effectively doesn't exist? Same story as with Ford Bronco. These are not cheap to begin with and with dealer markups.. well, I don't really want to sell a kidney to get one.
I’m not a cruiser guy either but my wife is and if you wanna make the wife happy sport touring cruiser but your right about position , just check out what the racers do ?? Bagger racing ? They change the position of the controls for performance , bagger racing 😂
One other comment.
The right side bag doesn't match the left due to exhaust pipe but honestly there is a load of space there and they just look stupid not being matched up.
I would not buy this bike for that reason alone.
This mismatch aggravates me.
WHY are we still getting replies to our comments from someone impersonating you, asking us to contact "you" through Telegram for "prizes"? Is there no way for UA-cam to stop these guys?
Nothing wrong with Harley bikes. They need to do something about their dealerships. Was just looking at a 2022 Road King. $10k over MSRP. 😂 And, at least at the dealership I was at, the sales process is strange. They will not give the out the door price of a bike. They kept telling me it ‘would be on the bill of sale’. Had to talk to the head finance person to get an actual price. Complete waste of time.
We are in strange times. Supply and demand.. They will sell for what people are willing to pay. I own a 2018 Road Glide Special and it is probably my last Harley. I bought it below MSRP new and negotiated a 30% discount on accessories.
Times will change soon
@@BigRockMoto Hope so. Instead, went with a Kawasaki Versys 1000. I’ll pick it up this Thursday. Ur vid on that bike was very helpful. I appreciate that.
I know, two completely different bikes…won’t bore u with the details.
I've ridden Harleys for 30 years, never bought a new one. Always from individuals. Bought a 2020 Road glide special in February with a thousand miles and about 6k in upgrades for several thousand less than a stock new one.
@@bigg2768 So are you liking the Kawasaki?
Where is the laughing emoji? Seriously? They are the worst performing, handling, unreliable POS I have ever come across. And yes I have ridden quite a few Harleys.
I think the pegs are fine in regards to how forwards they are but agree that they are too high. Causes discomfort in the hips. Your knees shouldn’t be higher than your hips when riding. Shorter riders, 5’8” or less are fine.
I would love to hear what you have to say about the Fat Boy. A real challenge to ride in the bends :)
For me a giant TFT dash isn't a deal breaker, l like old school analog dials. But the dash setup on this bike, at 30 grand, is pathetic. Call it a style piece or whatever, but the 'tech dash' is sad at this price point.
Love the content, but please, slow down, you are out of breath speaking. No need. Slow down. Don't be nervous, the content is great. 👍
The seat is too low for a sport bike type of arrangement. I believe most people would be more comfortable with a forward rather than mid type, foot setting.
The fairing is just do fugly! HD was already a no go, but that fairing puts it in that "you'd have to pay me to ride it" category. Great vid though.
Great review all most got me to want to buy a HD . Is that a factory air filter because I ride a lot in rain and that does not look good for rain?
It has to be a complete downpour for you to feel it. At highway speed in rain and speeding up to 80 it will momentarily bog down for a second. You can just throw a rain sock over it. I believe the ST comes with one.