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I have an EXTREMELY STUPID request... can you compare the ATAS and the Rally 250/300 for the ride quality? I had the 250 (33k miles), have the 300 (10k), and have been dreaming about the AT. First bike was a cbr1000.
I had both purchased at the same time. 3 month difference with Bmw being the first i got. Now 2 years and half after and 23,000 km on the bmw and 19,000 on the Honda this is what i have to say. both are the best in the market for adventure bikes. If you want a fun super bike that is 100% reliable, does both road and semi off-road and full off-road the Honda wins in all aspects. The BMW is a great bike in terms of technology and confort. The rest goes to the Honda that is equally advanced in technology but the simplicity of the made in Japan makes it so that the driver and the bike meet on a wild adventure. With the Honda, it really is like riding a horse… a mustang at 180 km an hour. It will never break. It is Honda. Just like Toyota Landcruiser, they are made to start and go even when you take out the engine and store it away 100 km away from the car/bike, it will still start 😂 and go ahead. That is how reliable they are. The BMW is german excellence at its best. If you want a space ship of an adventure bike… go for that one. Much more confortabile for 8-9 hours road than the Honda. The technology it has like the breaking assistance where the suspension keeps the bike straight up while you break and so on makes the ride a wonder. I personally enjoy the Honda because it kept the real motorbike experience that the same Africa twin gave in the 80’s. Man on a bike on a road. No extra help. Pure skills!
I'm two years owner of 2018 AT dct and seriously thinking about replacing it due to issues and lack of comfort from suspension. Test rode kove800x, now need to ride GS and tuareg so if I change it'll prolly be to these two. I'm also comside getting back to old AT and heavily modifying suspension with enduro forks at front. New AT is just too harsh and nervous in suspension. Imo they way too sporty with it character, old AT was way better for slow /technical off-road, new at is better for aggressive riding@@tonywillingham8109
Ian, It is just brilliant that you always include the metric figures as well so the rest of the world can watch your excellent reviews without stopping to convert the figures. Thank you.
I have a GSA and probably won't change it out. It is just too good overall for me to consider losing it. However, I really appreciate having someone like you test out other bikes that I might not ever get to own. I also appreciate that you are giving ownership experience and not just a test ride.
Also, I think there is no shame in dedicating an entire video on your horrible experience with the Norden and KTM’s horrible customer service. Change only happens when it is necessary. You can almost see it as a responsibility to call them out because you have a big audience and are a very good and well spoken representative of adventure/ off-road riding -> KTM’s customers. Of course this is entirely up to you though.
@@M4NAH1MEK0 In the US they have a very small dealer network. Very few people means less time to be helpful to their customers. Overall, they haven't really caught on over here.
Excellent video, as usual. I would lean toward the Africa Twin even though I have always loved BMW GS motorcycles. There are no BMW dealership within 200 miles of my city. There are 4 Honda motorcycle dealers within 50 miles of me with two of them within 20 minutes. That's it for me, the ability to access dealers for parts and service. KTM is local but no way would I buy a new KTM. I raced their MX and Enduro bikes for years and had to put up with spotty parts availability and just plain crappy dealers. Maybe it's better now but I won't take a chance. The best dealers for me were always Kawasaki shops but that brand doesn't build the bike I would buy at this stage of my 61 years of riding motorcycles. Anyway, keep up the great work. Your efforts are appreciated.
I fitted Continetal Trail Attack 3 tires on my 2021 AT1100, and this transformed the bike completely. Much more agile compared to the original Bridgestone AX41 on paved roads. This indicates the high importance of tires on the riding behavior of bikes. This is often overlooked by reviews like this. Also makes it even more difficult to make a judgment unfortunately.
In my opinion tyre reviews are subjective. In no way am I attempting to exclude your personal experience but I can say that tyres which worked for other riders on my various bikes did not necessarily agree with me. Cheers
I believe that in this case the judgment is objective. I also mounted the Conti Tail Attack 3 on my Africa Twin 1100 and it practically became another bike. Seeing is believing!
Sure. there are personal opinions and all riders don't use same rubber no matter what the sport is. but there are also facts like air pressure and rubber hardness... @@cyclemoto8744
It’s great that there are so many superb motorcycles out these days. You can really tell that competition drove all manufacturers to improve their bikes in various ways so in the end you can’t go terribly wrong with either of them. It just comes down to personal preference 🙂
So true Jessica, it is really getting difficult to find a bike today that is not made well, there are issues of course with most, but overall, lots of great engineering.
Can’t wait for your “you don’t need to lube an o-ring chain” video. I’m with you on that. I confirmed my suspicions conversing with a Tsubaki chains engineer. He said that keeping the o-rings clean is the #1 way to make an o-ring chain last as long as possible. All the lube it ever needs is contained by the o-rings, and the only reason to lube is for corrosion protection (my chain will get surface rust after a few days left out in the rain if not minimally lubed - so technically I do ‘lube’ the chain). Also the rollers that protect the chain pins don’t need lube because they hardly move as the chain moves. I get a lot of grief about this opinion on the Stromtroopers forums, but I’m sticking to my guns
I use my chain lube as a chain cleaner. Spray it on, spin the wheel a few times, and then wipe off what I can from the chain. Almost all of the dirt and debris come off with the wiping procedure.
Can't wait to read the flaming comments on this too. I am in the avoid chain lube camp also. I spend so much time off pavement that lube is just a base for making lapping compound to destroy my chain. A little WD-40 to clean dirt and put a little anti corrosion to it on occasion is it. In fact I know of a very big operation that puts tens of thousands of miles on bikes in Baja annually that cleans with WD-40 in the evenings so the chain is dry in the morning and that is the only thing chains get as lubing them will wear them out fast down there.
Exactly, corrosion protection is the only point of lubing an O or X-ring chain. That said, I use paste type lube (Motul C5). I found it lasts longer and you don't spread it everywhere like a spray lube. I tried regular WD40 too. 100% ass. It doesn't stick to the chain which got totally rusty in a week. It was during winter, it rained and there might have been road salt too but still. I've never seen a chain corroding that fast (or at all) with any other lubricant. Never again.
@Fred Wills as a 2006 vstrom 650 pilot, I've also been a chain-lube rebel on that forum, and nothing riles up the crankfest of cranky 'I've always believed this so it must be true' types, as the issue of lubing a chain that's already permanently lubed from the factory! I have used the Dupont stuff, and they actually make one labeled for bikes (I bet it's the same stuff). It's cheap, stays dry when dry, and keeps corrosion at bay. Best part is, you can get it at any Home Depot, Lowes, Menards, etc.... I am now using Maxima dry chain lube, because it was what they had at the moto store and I needed it. Works essentially the same for twice the price. Yes, the Dupont teflon spray is the best chain 'lube' deal on the planet.....
If it's "straight to the point," you don't need the two words. "No Bullshit.' Don't curse. It's superfluous and distracts from the intention of communicating.
You keep on delivering on your promise of having your own opinion... and I really appreciate that. I have waited for the usual rant about the Honda's too complicated switch gear... ;-) I have made the decision between these two bikes a little more than a year ago, and in the end decided in favour of the Africa Twin. I also chose the manual version over the DCT. Let me give you some comments on my decision: 1. Power: I think that the target audience for both bikes is less interested in raw engine power than most motor journalists themselves think. I have no doubt that the GS(A) outperformes the ATAS any minute, but on an absolute level I have never ever felt underpowered on the Honda in the year that I have been riding it. Fun fact: This has been confirmed when the chief editor of the leading german-language motorcycle website 1000 PS took the ATAS for a tour together with his son last year and admitted that he never felt he did not have enough power. I guess that is a very personal decision, but if you are travelling and not racing the AT should be sufficient. 2. Switch Gear: I am with you on that one. The possibilities of the Honda outweigh the complicated settings, although I have to agree that some things could have been made better. However, if it is your personal bike you get used to it and - in my experience - hardly ever use it. I have preconfigured the two rider modes for my personal taste and only ever switch between these two. But I am super happy that I could adjust the suspension to my considerable weight. 3. Seat: One downside from my point of view is the seat. As I have already written, I am a heavy guy and I got heavy pain after an hour of riding. I then had the original seat tweaked by Jungbluth (vendor here in Germany) and that made a huge difference - not just for my butt but also for the overall ergonomics. So that should be something to keep in mind. 4. Tires: The original tires on the ATAS really suck. The front tire desintegrated after a few thousand kilometers and that is a known problem of Bridgestone's AX41T, which is an OEM tire only built for the ATAS. At least here in Germany Bridgestone accepts their responsibility and offers riders who complain a compensation. As I ride only on the streets I have switched to the Bridgestone A41 and that has elevated the on-road performance to a new level. After a year now I have not regretted my decision for the Honda one single time. An added bonus to me personally has been the attitude of the BMW dealers here in Berlin which made me happy to avoid them - but that might be different in other parts of the world. However - like the advertisement from the 70ies said: You meet the nicest people on a Honda. ;-)
Good stuff, you are making a progress with the channel. You are becoming a go to guy for the models you are testing/ evaluating. Cold analytical attitude, listening to the viewers, lack of bias or testosteron driven conclusion. Digging it, man.
@@BigRockMoto A great review - but I'd love to hear your thoughts and opinion about pillion comfort and the riding dynamic of these bikes with a pillion - I believe this one factor weighs in heavily for making a more informed decision. Thank you!
@@Ramdas_Devadiga I agree. The main reason I would buy one of these bikes, is to take the wife along on road trips. She will want her luggage, as well.
I have a 2022 Africa twin adventure dct. Love it. Gonna be hard to go back to manual transmission. Only real complaint is the seat is not that comfortable but after 3000 miles gotten used to it. Live in Texas not a lot of off road riding mainly county dirt road gravel works great. Pavement riding has been great. Had a 800 gsa few years ago wasn’t a big fan of it. Mainly ridden big Harleys over past 30 years. Don’t think you can go wrong with the Africa twin. Fun bike on and off pavement.
I got my new Africa Twin on 11th of May with dct and el suspension in black mat. Gorgeous bike.Love it.NEVER AGAIN MANUAL TRANSMISSION Greetings from Greece ride safe and enjoy your bike bro.
Great video. You developed yourself so much over the last year. I used to almost fall asleep with your older videos. Now you have so much more energy and it is fun watching you. The info is prepared and well edited. Keep on the good work!
I was leaning very heavily toward the GS BMW but I will be spending at least 6 months each year in Thailand. As a result and knowing that I can get a Honda serviced even in very remote areas of Thailand whereas a BMW would be best serviced in major cities there I am going with the Africa Twin 1100. Your review was also very interesting and provided several other good reasons for me to go in the Honda direction. I always appreciate your knowledge and commentary. Thanks for being there.
Hey man I don't do off road riding but love how detailed your reviews are. The love you're showing for the AT is making me reconsider a NT1100 for a tourer.
I had the GSA for 2 years and did 30K on it. It is the best road bike money can buy. Super comfortable and totally agree with all the points made. I loved not having to do chain maintenance but hated smacking my shins on the cylinders and how awkward it felt on softer surfaces. Next bike though will probably be an Africa Twin or maybe even a T700 or 701.
Greetings from Serbia !! every video of yours is great, just keep it up !! and thanks for these reviews because you help with the choice and explain everything nicely !!
One of the few moto UA-camrs I actually enjoy and watch for credible info. A bit boring from time to time but always well-conveyed in-depth information.
@@Roger_Ramjet I watch that Canadian bloke for entertainment. As mentioned here a little boring and long-winded. Here I get the full story though, a fair tradeoff. ;)
Excellent video. Thank you so much for posting. As a very loyal Honda owner ( I have a 2016 Africa Twin) I’ve been looking at a new bike lately. This is truly helpful. I’ve gone back-and-forth between the new 1100 ATS version as well as the GSA and you point out some very good talking points here. As far as the valve adjustment I 100% agree. I recently made a video on this showing how much of a pain it really is, and the GSA takes the maintenance category hands-down even with the air filter changes as you mentioned.
I'm very happy with my BMW R1250GS and I have always liked the Hondas that I've owned over the years. My riding style leaned more to the BMW highway to adventure. Big thumbs up for a good comparison of the brands.🤠👍
Great video as always. Agree 100% on all. Just purchased 3 weeks ago my 22 Africa twin 1100es adventure sports dct and love it so far. Did all my homework comparisons between these two and also the Tiger 1200 gt explorer. My personal choice was based on price, maintenance cost, parts and accessories cost, also dealers locations and reliability. I'm coming from Harley davidson sporter, street glide, road glide and Honda VTX 1800 all of them shifted gears, but this dct from Honda ohhh man it's a dream on how smooth and quick it shift, and in heavy city traffic is a home run. I still keep my 07 Honda VTX 1800 and this AT now for my adventures days, I'm very satisfied with my decision and can't wait for my next ride.
I would only add that if your riding is 70/30 road, off road, the GS is a far better choice for long distance travel. At least, that is what convinced me to go with the standard GS.
@Paul Paul faster, more passing power, plusher, better cornering, plus, it looks much better at Starbucks😀. I looked at them all before buying the GS and all the other brands kept comparing their offering to the GS. So, I concluded the benchmark was worth the staggering price.
another great review Ian. I rode Red for years before moving to BMW. Both great/reliable bikes. I'll stick w/ my GSA though since most of my riding is done long distance on-road.
This is the comparison I’ve been waiting for. I had a GSA for 7 years and loved it up to the day I sadly had to sell it when I moved out of the US. Now I’m on a 2020 Africa Twin here in France and love it as well. I’ve been curious how the AT would stack up against the newest GSA. Thank you for this great review!
I have a gsa 21. My 7th. Tried the AT sport and wasn’t expecting much! I was surprised how good it was! Very quick and handled well, I still prefer the GS much prefer the simplicity of the suspension adjustment and it stays in the same setting! AT suspension was too fiddly and complicated. I mostly use my GSA for touring and it suits this very well. The AT is good but for me the GSA stays.
Surpised you didn't get the DCT. Any reason why,? In the past you indicated if you had the option of with or with out DCT you would pick up a DCT model.
I hope you give a detailed breakdown vid of your Norden experience - put it together with Bret Tkacs' vid with his 790 - it can only improve things if people put it out there. Cheers!
I’ve had a BMW GS and a GSA, loved them both but then last November I test rode a a brand new ATAS DCT ES…..I was sold ten minutes into the test ride for the very same reasons you have mentioned. Absolutely love mine 😎👍🏻
@@Comrade134 And automatic cars aren't "real cars" said every wannabe tough guy pre 1990s. Like as dumb as saying a phone that doesn't use an old school roll number dial isn't a real phone. Or an airplane with jets vs propeller isn't a real airplane. The problem is with the nostalgia obsessed crowd, not the new tech. And I will ALWAYS have a traditional bike to compliment my increasing DCT arsenal. It's like surfing shortboards and longboards, the shortboard crowd has a fragile ego and if they see you on a log assume you can't rip, then you come out on a shortie and rip and they give you attention. The problem is with their ego, not the easier barrier-of-entry longboard users. Similarly, the problem is you being attached to what you're used to and identify as. You had to LEARN to ride and find it unfair others can be a "biker" without learning manual. I think its an important skill to have, but the problem is absolutely the one who clings to his old school ways as if its the only way to "really do it". Psychologically, its their fragile egos that the thing they're proud of is getting to easy to be a part of. It's your choice to be bitter and attempt to make objective definitions subjective out of an inferiority complex.
@@AuRowe in this case you should probably be riding an electric motorcycle since you like to jump on the bandwagon of science. Some of us like to work the transmission and feel an intimate connection with the machine the same way an old gentlemen enjoys listening to a vinyl record in an analog stereo while indulging in his taste for aged tobacco and leather boots.
@@mohamedsiddig2850 I specifically said I'll always have a tradition clutch bike, but DCT has as much a place as automatic cars. And DCT has as much of a scrutiny as automatic cars did when they first came out. Not a fan of electric motorcycles because they're difficult to maintain without proprietary computer software resets.
Totally in accordance with all the analysis and the results, I had a bmw gsa 1200 and I sold it with the idea of buying the new gsa 1250, but after trying the Africa twin, apart from the great price difference of €9000 that I think it does not compensate, apart from that for me and for my use Africa is superior in every way to the bmw
That’s why GS is so popular among the big bike riders here, it’s excellent touring machine, only a tiny percentage brings their bikes off-road so no one gets bothered with the synthetic feeling of the telelever shocks. Props to you
Both are extremely comfortable, comparing to the other bikes in the segment, and both are extremely heavy. I would take the AT only because I don't really like the way the boxer engine feels and sounds. Although I find the AT exhaust annoying. That said, and having owned a T7... Heavy bikes is a big no for me. And these two are way heavier than the T7. Having 160HP is amazing, isn't it? And having that off-road and rain mode that tunes it down to 100hp is even better. Anyone claiming 100HP is not enough, has never ridden these bikes, or is a KTM lover.
To me, your logic extends even farther down the ladder. The ATV unicorn is, say, a CB500X with 15 more hp, better suspension, and upgraded electronics. KTM's rumored 500 may hit the sweet spot, especially if the wet weight is around 400 lbs.
@@zefautino Yes the CB500X isn't there yet. Point is that the unicorn for me will be still smaller than the T7, closer to dual-sport territory. Interstate travel will never be a trip highlight for me, just a necessary evil, so I'm always interested in smaller bikes for off-road, backroads, and mountain roads.
@@posteroonie the 500X is far from there. You can't compare it to a T7, 790 or AT. It's a completely different segment. It's a CBR500 with longer suspension. Yes, it is exactly what it is. Riding position is really bad for anything other than the road/city, and it's off-road capabilities are non-existent. It just looks somewhat capable. Yes, I did try it on the dirt. It's fukcing awful.
My target is an African twin. I went and saw and test it last week and I got crazy about it. Can't wait to get my hands on it. Thanks for your awesome videos. 👌 I love Gs too but for me is too expensive. Like with the money I will save I can buy for me and my wife the best equipment and luggage and have some money for a trip also
Great comparison. I looked at the AT briefly but when it came down to it, I went with the GSA for several of the reasons you mentioned - shaft drive, power, wind/weather protection, and yes, appearance LOL. I really wanted more of a road bike that was able to go off road rather than the other way around, and for my intended riding the GSA’s off road ability far exceeds my own. Good video 👍
Ive had both and ridden both long distances. In the end I just upgraded to a 22 Africa twin. Most of my trips now are between 3 and 10 thousand miles into desolate territory at times. I’m never far from a Honda dealer no matter where I am in the world and the older I get the more the bmw scared me sometimes being over a thousand miles away from a dealership if I needed help. The dct was the deciding factor though. After a couple hundred thousand miles I’m tired of shifting. I don’t think I can ever go back. It’s a BIG deal if you haven’t tried one.
I think you did an excellent comparison. One thing that might be interesting for a future video would be the addition of the crash bars to the ATAS and maybe a center stand and what that does to the weight gap? I think a big chain drive you want a center stand to just help with regular cleaning and lube especially if you hit off road much. I like the car play too for all the reasons mentioned and think Honda made the right choices there and also with the suspension settings and then keeping things less complicated. You packed a lot of info here, it was well organized and presented. Thanks!
Oh my! I ordered my BMW R1250 GS Adventure 40th year edition about 2 months ago and I'm told it will hit Chicago in another 2 days. I bumped into the Honda Africa Twin a couple of days ago and it started my head spinning. Now that I've seen your video I'm torn! My first big BMW coming so let's see how it goes. But thanks so much for this great review and all the others I've seen that you've done. Very valuable information and much appreciated!
Thanks for the comparison. Regarding AT did you consider DCT? I know you did a test on one of those in the past. What made you lean to manual over DCT. Thanks
As always, you've provided a compelling and honest evaluation! At 77 years young, my wife recently convinced me to part with my BMW R1150RT and I'm nostalgic whenever I see the void it left in my garage. As a former member of the Gotham City Riders in Manhattan (Malcolm Forbes was a member), we engaged in positive, charitable motorcycle activities that garnered us an enviable reputation with the public and in the media. We were a bunch of fun-loving guys whose club motto was "Financially stable, mentally questionable"! In the past ten years since the advent of Uber drivers in New York City, the caliber of drivers has declined to a level where it's no longer comfortable riding. There are, also, too many unlicensed and uninsured motorists, and a preponderance of battery-powered bicycles ridden by morons (to be kind), defying traffic laws and making riding less enjoyable. While I still maintain a residence in New York, I acquired eight waterfront acres along Harris Creek on Maryland's Eastern Shore near St. Michael's. My plan is to pester my wife to agree to purchase a Honda Africa Twin because at the shore I only have to worry about the deer and the wild horses at Assateague Island.
Yet another awesome video! You are getting so good at what you do - thank you!! I personally have a GSA and your comments about it are spot on! I haven't had any experience with the Honda AT, but the arguments for it as a next replacement are compelling. The weight and seat height are becoming more of a factor as I get older (and shorter). Thanks again for an quality comparison and greetings from South Africa!
Very interesting comparison and I can appreciate how difficult this video was to make. Thank you for opening my eyes to certain aspects of the A. Twin, such as the instrument panel. The cost differential of the two bikes is substantial. Once again, thanks.
Thank you for the great comparison. One Question I NEVER see any reviewer covering,, Which adventure bike is preferable with a passenger? I love riding, but My wife also, very often, wants to ride. I can't get her to get her own bike. So, for comfort and bike handling characteristics. Thank you.
I really like both but the replacement of parts that might get broken is very expensive, I lean toward the Africa Twin, but doing routine maintenance is a bit of a pain. and the fairings and bodyworks might be a little fragile.
Very fair and accurate, IMHO, comparison. It's a very interesting video. Two things that I would like to thank you. My english is not the best and I was able to understand you due your clear accent and your adequate speech speed, and to finish, to be so kind to put the technical measurements in both US and in the international metric system. Thanks and regards from Spain!
Thanks Ian - long awaited review, and you did justice to both bikes. I feel that scoring price the same way as the other parameters is not really fair. The AT is 30% less expensive, which is a big deal, especially when Honda managed to come up with a comparable if not better bike for the money. Also - I would like to hear more about reliability - Honda is famous for reliable bikes, and I heard some horror stories about BMW. How would they score on that parameter?
@@Porsche996driver he mentioned nothing about the bmw problems, even in warranty period. spokes being loose causing crashes? some fatal final drive failures? I think we'd all rather clean a chain rather than get stranded and pay thousands for a repair. Or have a holiday ruined waiting for parts. even bmw has a maintenance free chain now, makes you think about it more ha
@@beleatudor yes, warranty Issues Need to be mentioned, I personally had a Monoshock issue on my R1200rt, warranty job...never heard much about It Out There???? About 6 yrs ago...Funny how thing's get hushed up...🤭
Had a 2010 GS1200 for a couple of years, never had a problem but it wasn’t laden w layers and layers of electronics. Have a 2001F650GS, 2012 Harley ElectraGlide & a 2011 Kawasaki Concours14. EFI & ABS (& early TC on the Kawi) minimize the electronic gremlin possibilities.. I hope. 😀
In the end price is always one of the most individual and subjektive criteria: It depends on your personal financial setting. If $ 5000 would make your family starve go for a cheaper bike, if you have to enlarge your 5-car-garage for any of the two bikes anyhow it doesn't matter. Even the "average guy" might invest all of his disposable money in a motorbike or have other expensive hobbies that are to be considered. As Ian said: Don't take the overall score as result, weight the different arguments yourself.
What you failed to realize is that you never deserved to have the GS in the first place. There is nothing better in any way than a GS-A and dissent is not permitted. Just joking and poking fun at the GS crew out there. Good video. Always enjoy hearing your take on things.
Very interesting comparison! One thing missing though: fuel consumption, mpg; the BMW has a bigger tank but can you actually go further between fills than the AT?
Great point, I think he said 8 gal on the GS, range is probably comparable. I can see some people loving 8 gal tanks, but for me, I'd have wanted to stop every 3 gals or so to stretch and walk around, coffee etc. lol
Finally, I've met someone else who doesn't lube their chain! :) I agree on that one! I also find it amazing that we've come to a time in motorcycling when 100hp on a 530lb bike is "kinda boring" ... wow! I get how other's have "more" but I don't see being "bored" with that kind of power (I've heard this same comment on just about every AT review as well...)
Glad you did this comparison!! I have a 2020 ATAS manual, and absolutely love it. It was my first adventure bike and first motorcycle in general really outside of a dual sport. I’ve always wondered about the GSA and how I would’ve found it compared to the AT. For the types of adventure riding I do either bike would be great I’m sure.. I’m running out of things I can buy to add to my AT so I may need to purchase a GSA to start over 😂 lol
Great comparison! I just purchased a brand new 2021 ATAS and couldn't be more satisfied! Mine is the black and gold.. they're all fantastic bikes. I live in Northern Maine.. and had to travel to NH to purchase it.. after a 6 month wait.. couldn't find one in Maine due to covid and all of that nasty business. Happy Trails Friend!
I’m travelling with a AT 2020 standard for five month now. And I absolutely love this bike, even though it’s a really heavy bike. Just wish Honda would have implemented a small box for my cellphone like Triumph does. Otherwise to be able to use CarPlay/android auto is awesome! Nice video as always!
Consider a quad lock charging mount. I don’t know about Android but Apple’s maps won’t turn off if there’s power going to the phone and you can use that big display for bike information. You’ll find you’re more adept at the phone touchscreen than the handlebar buttons and the bike touchscreen won’t accept input if the bike’s moving. If you can hold out Black Friday is your friend for that stuff.
@@zugmeister314 Thanks for advice! But I prefer to use the AT’s big screen for navigation. Currently I’m using a SW-Motech micro tankbag with my phone on top. But I don’t like to have a tankbag in front of me. Of course I could use any phone mount but then have to deal with the cable flying around. So I would really like to have a clean solution how to find at a Triumph Tiger 900. Probably have to figure out something by myself! 😉
Really enjoyed the thorough comparison. And most importantly, you got down to it with no waffle and padding. Hate it when reviewers blather on needlessly repeating themselves. Good work.
Great comparasion video, I am curious about wind protection, on the AT I had 3 gs's in the past and a few other adventure bikes, but the GS have been the best on providing wind protection, Its kind a interesting how many other brands don't pay attention to this important detail. Cheers !
I think they do but struggle. The GS is naturally very wide at the front, which helps lend itself to better wind protection. The AT and T700 for example are narrow. Better for performance but less protection for the rider. KTM with the 890 have no excuse really. The bike is not narrow due the fuel tanks but they put that tiny bug like headlight on and 3 separate windscreen appendages (the screen itself, the side deflectors, the headlight mask) it just doesn't work for buffeting protection.
As always.. Excellent review! Wish the manufactures were more aggressive when design weakness were exposed. I've owned multiple new BMW road machines and two GSA but will not own another.. I'll leave it at that. I'm not excited about the competitions complicated valve maintenance either. Thank you for the comparison.
@Leo the Cat Higher octane has no performance advantage. It only provides anti-knock protection. It allows you to run higher compression (which can be achieved by forced induction and/or piston/head design). Higher compression will generally provide higher performance but that brings in the higher chance of predetonation so higher octane is needed to combat that. So, as stated by others, the AT runs a lower compression engine so lower octane will work. You can run higher octane but it won’t run any better. The BMW, having a higher compression engine, needs that octane. You can run lower in a pinch but high heat or high engine loading could result in it knocking with potentially damaging results.
Great comparison, up front and honest opinions, appreciate it. I've sat on the AT and the seat feels so hard and uncomfortable, I know the "easy" fix is to just replace it but something I wouldn't want to do right away
Watching your previous videos I was sure you're gonna get an AT but I was also pretty sure it's gonna be a DCT version. I was surprised when you said it was manual.
Great comparison, thanks Ian! I currently own a 2019 ATAS DCT which I replaced after owning the previous generation GSA. ATAS every day of the week - absolutely love it! - although I do miss the fantastic BMW aftersales service here in South Africa. I'm still not convinced that moving from the 1000cc to the 1100cc ATAS is worth the significant extra cost. Thanks for another great video :-)
when ever i see your videos on UA-cam a big smile came to my face like HERE COMES IAN 😀 oh waiting for this for a long time ☺️ wanted to buy bmw r1250 gsa and wanna travel all around north american continent and all around the europe ☺️ than i saw your Africa twin video and am so confused 😂 this video is perfect and by the way love your videos and the contents in it ❤️ love it love it love it 🤗❤️
I can’t agree more with you!!! I have both a 1200GSA and a AT1100L and you were spot on with the pros and cons, and because of those differences I am keeping both! 🤣🤣 🤣
Hello Ian, thanks for you video. I was wondering, when I recall you DCT AT video right, that you had a blast on the DCT version and I also recall, that you loved the GSA. Why didn´t you buy the DCT version?
@@GCTO239 well, to be honest, I did compare it with my experience with cars. It is, by definition a fact that driving with a stick is 90% more fun than driving with an automatic.
excellent video. I've been working on this very problem for 4 months now. You did a very good job helping me choose while considering a few items I had not considered.
Hello :) Thank you for this awesome comparison video. I am currently deciding between these two bikes. I am leaning towards Africa Twin 1100 AS as well, but i still don't know if i shoul go with DCT or Manual? Can you please tell me why you bought a Manual, i remember your video a while back where you praised the DCT saying that if you'd buy one it would be a DCT for sure. Please help? Thank you so much for all your hard work :)
Fair review Ian! Pros and cons to both. A new GS/GSA having a big price tag, which is why I’m still riding my 100hp ‘05 GS. No apologies, mine has been bulletproof, through freeways and canyons, regular maintenance helps!
Some really nice points raised, and of course at the end it is going to come down to personal preferences since both bikes are so different. My question is - why did you get the manual AT? You had such nice things to say about the DCT. I am wondering myself about getting the AT and this is probably my biggest question
As gsa owner I would say that the seat issue is not much a matter of height but a matter of width. I replaced the seat with a low touratech which turns out to have a different shape and to be a lot narrower. This allows to put your feet on the ground closer to the centre of the bike making better use of their lenght. I’m as tall as you and my feet are entirely on the ground.
As an older rider and wanting to save money. The 2021 ATAS DCT. Was the prime choice. I owned the 2016 model and loved it. And I only have two complaints. The Metzler Karoo street tires are awesome but are crazy noisy at highway speeds. And the wind screen sucks. Love your channel keep up the good work!
A very interesting review ! I’ve got the latest ATAS and absolutely love it. I think it does have a greater off road bias than the GS but is also good at touring. Also it’s nice and slim. I find the GS a bit ‘fat’. Of course for an even greater off road bias there are the KTMs etc. all depends on the degree of road vs off road.
Again a great detailed comparison, clear and succinct :) I did notice you went silent on the AT screen time to power and the left controls ergonomics. Still, thank you (also for the metric conversions)
Great review. Extremely thorough. When discussing seat height, sharing your inseam is just as important as your height. You could be 5’11" with a 30" or a 34" inseam.
Great comparison, Ian. I sold my 2014 GSA for 2020 low mile ATAS DCT ES. It’s so true that any comparison is subjective in the sense of what suits. I have a major issue with power and torque quoted figures because they tell nothing of an engine’s real world characteristics. Power curves are the only measure. And power is, after all, a function of torque and engine speed. I have a question: what is the screen on your AT? It looks wider and more contoured than the standard screen which is the only major failing other than, perhaps, tyres.
From first hand experience of both bikes, AT is a nightmare for drop damage. Little annoyances like handed turn signals, stressed fairings which transmit damage to adjacent panels, and stock cases that you can't buy individual parts for. For the GS you can get single bolts and latches for the panniers if necessary, the same turn signal fits all 4 corners, and the crash bars and fairings seem to survive more of the same drops on the same trails. AT is a great bike in many ways but for anyone at regular risk of off-road damage I'd urge you to consider your wallet in the long run, too.
I have the AT AS, I use it offroad a lot and have dropped many times. No serious damage so far, just normal scratches. The OEM crash bars work very well
You truly deserve 10 times the subscribers....your channel is one ofn the ONLY "real world" testing channels on YT. Your no bullshit way of reviewing the bikes you do is a refreshing watch. Keep it up.
Loved this comparison between these two. I have a 2021 AT, base model, 6 speed, but I have put a lot into it, i.e., full Panniers, engine guards, fairing guards, and even went as far as putting tubeless spoked rims on it which I attached a set of Michelin Anakee adventure tires on it. I put a set of Metzeler Karoo 3s on the original rims, for playing in the dirt. I am leaving southeast Alabama this Saturday and riding to California to do some riding on the PCH 1. If you happen to see me out there, run me down and say hey. Really love your videos, keep up the good work.
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Hi. Nice review. I was hoping you included gasoline consumption and ect. Thanks.
I have an EXTREMELY STUPID request... can you compare the ATAS and the Rally 250/300 for the ride quality? I had the 250 (33k miles), have the 300 (10k), and have been dreaming about the AT. First bike was a cbr1000.
I had both purchased at the same time. 3 month difference with Bmw being the first i got. Now 2 years and half after and 23,000 km on the bmw and 19,000 on the Honda this is what i have to say. both are the best in the market for adventure bikes. If you want a fun super bike that is 100% reliable, does both road and semi off-road and full off-road the Honda wins in all aspects. The BMW is a great bike in terms of technology and confort. The rest goes to the Honda that is equally advanced in technology but the simplicity of the made in Japan makes it so that the driver and the bike meet on a wild adventure. With the Honda, it really is like riding a horse… a mustang at 180 km an hour. It will never break. It is Honda. Just like Toyota Landcruiser, they are made to start and go even when you take out the engine and store it away 100 km away from the car/bike, it will still start 😂 and go ahead. That is how reliable they are. The BMW is german excellence at its best. If you want a space ship of an adventure bike… go for that one. Much more confortabile for 8-9 hours road than the Honda. The technology it has like the breaking assistance where the suspension keeps the bike straight up while you break and so on makes the ride a wonder. I personally enjoy the Honda because it kept the real motorbike experience that the same Africa twin gave in the 80’s. Man on a bike on a road. No extra help. Pure skills!
Do so ! Its about riding the bike ! Or the bike talking you for a ride 😂
Would you say the Africa Twin in uncomfortable after 4 or 5 hours of riding? Or just not as comfortable as the BMW?
I tried it for few days and after 6-7 ours I still could ride it. You can change the original seat and make it even more comfy@@tonywillingham8109
I'm two years owner of 2018 AT dct and seriously thinking about replacing it due to issues and lack of comfort from suspension.
Test rode kove800x, now need to ride GS and tuareg so if I change it'll prolly be to these two.
I'm also comside getting back to old AT and heavily modifying suspension with enduro forks at front.
New AT is just too harsh and nervous in suspension. Imo they way too sporty with it character, old AT was way better for slow /technical off-road, new at is better for aggressive riding@@tonywillingham8109
big time testing, aren't we? 🤪
Comparison Time Stamps
2:48 - Price
3:51 - Weight
4:57 - Power
6:02 - Electronics
8:15 - Lighting
9:13 - Suspension
11:41 - Final Drive
12:55 - Riding Comfort (Ergonomics)
13:49 - On Road Performance
14:51 - Off Road Performance
15:38 - Seat Height
17:15 - Maintenance & Cost of Ownership
thanks for that
THANK YOU sir.
APPRECIATED.
Thank you 👍👍👍
thank you sir
Ian, It is just brilliant that you always include the metric figures as well so the rest of the world can watch your excellent reviews without stopping to convert the figures. Thank you.
@@AudioTravels sorry, 1Mile = 1,60934Km so 16Kmile = 25.760km aprox.
I have a GSA and probably won't change it out. It is just too good overall for me to consider losing it. However, I really appreciate having someone like you test out other bikes that I might not ever get to own. I also appreciate that you are giving ownership experience and not just a test ride.
we are so happy for you
Also, I think there is no shame in dedicating an entire video on your horrible experience with the Norden and KTM’s horrible customer service. Change only happens when it is necessary. You can almost see it as a responsibility to call them out because you have a big audience and are a very good and well spoken representative of adventure/ off-road riding -> KTM’s customers. Of course this is entirely up to you though.
Where do you live, in Afghanistan? Because over here KTM/Husqvarna customer service is perfect.
@@M4NAH1MEK0 In the US they have a very small dealer network. Very few people means less time to be helpful to their customers. Overall, they haven't really caught on over here.
@@M4NAH1MEK0 Where is that, exactly?
@@M4NAH1MEK0 👍🏼
I loved my kTm....the service however is a different story...anyways sold my kTm and bought a used africa twin and couldn't be happier
Dry, tons of info, straightforward, probably puts kids to sleep. I love this channel!
Excellent video, as usual. I would lean toward the Africa Twin even though I have always loved BMW GS motorcycles. There are no BMW dealership within 200 miles of my city. There are 4 Honda motorcycle dealers within 50 miles of me with two of them within 20 minutes. That's it for me, the ability to access dealers for parts and service. KTM is local but no way would I buy a new KTM. I raced their MX and Enduro bikes for years and had to put up with spotty parts availability and just plain crappy dealers. Maybe it's better now but I won't take a chance. The best dealers for me were always Kawasaki shops but that brand doesn't build the bike I would buy at this stage of my 61 years of riding motorcycles.
Anyway, keep up the great work. Your efforts are appreciated.
I fitted Continetal Trail Attack 3 tires on my 2021 AT1100, and this transformed the bike completely. Much more agile compared to the original Bridgestone AX41 on paved roads. This indicates the high importance of tires on the riding behavior of bikes. This is often overlooked by reviews like this. Also makes it even more difficult to make a judgment unfortunately.
In my opinion tyre reviews are subjective. In no way am I attempting to exclude your personal experience but I can say that tyres which worked for other riders on my various bikes did not necessarily agree with me. Cheers
I believe that in this case the judgment is objective. I also mounted the Conti Tail Attack 3 on my Africa Twin 1100 and it practically became another bike. Seeing is believing!
Sure. there are personal opinions and all riders don't use same rubber no matter what the sport is. but there are also facts like air pressure and rubber hardness... @@cyclemoto8744
He’s absolutely right. Tires can absolutely have a significant change on a bike.
It’s great that there are so many superb motorcycles out these days. You can really tell that competition drove all manufacturers to improve their bikes in various ways so in the end you can’t go terribly wrong with either of them. It just comes down to personal preference 🙂
As long as you pick the GS in the end........Hehe
So true Jessica, it is really getting difficult
to find a bike today that is not made well,
there are issues of course with most, but
overall, lots of great engineering.
Well thats how it is always been, would be stranger if they didn't.
@@bikersoncallThis is nothing new. It's just that the market matured. Electric motorbikes are up next probably.
Can’t wait for your “you don’t need to lube an o-ring chain” video. I’m with you on that. I confirmed my suspicions conversing with a Tsubaki chains engineer. He said that keeping the o-rings clean is the #1 way to make an o-ring chain last as long as possible. All the lube it ever needs is contained by the o-rings, and the only reason to lube is for corrosion protection (my chain will get surface rust after a few days left out in the rain if not minimally lubed - so technically I do ‘lube’ the chain). Also the rollers that protect the chain pins don’t need lube because they hardly move as the chain moves. I get a lot of grief about this opinion on the Stromtroopers forums, but I’m sticking to my guns
I use my chain lube as a chain cleaner. Spray it on, spin the wheel a few times, and then wipe off what I can from the chain. Almost all of the dirt and debris come off with the wiping procedure.
use a hybrid lube/wax like belray super clean
Can't wait to read the flaming comments on this too. I am in the avoid chain lube camp also. I spend so much time off pavement that lube is just a base for making lapping compound to destroy my chain. A little WD-40 to clean dirt and put a little anti corrosion to it on occasion is it. In fact I know of a very big operation that puts tens of thousands of miles on bikes in Baja annually that cleans with WD-40 in the evenings so the chain is dry in the morning and that is the only thing chains get as lubing them will wear them out fast down there.
Exactly, corrosion protection is the only point of lubing an O or X-ring chain.
That said, I use paste type lube (Motul C5). I found it lasts longer and you don't spread it everywhere like a spray lube. I tried regular WD40 too. 100% ass. It doesn't stick to the chain which got totally rusty in a week. It was during winter, it rained and there might have been road salt too but still. I've never seen a chain corroding that fast (or at all) with any other lubricant. Never again.
@Fred Wills as a 2006 vstrom 650 pilot, I've also been a chain-lube rebel on that forum, and nothing riles up the crankfest of cranky 'I've always believed this so it must be true' types, as the issue of lubing a chain that's already permanently lubed from the factory! I have used the Dupont stuff, and they actually make one labeled for bikes (I bet it's the same stuff). It's cheap, stays dry when dry, and keeps corrosion at bay. Best part is, you can get it at any Home Depot, Lowes, Menards, etc.... I am now using Maxima dry chain lube, because it was what they had at the moto store and I needed it. Works essentially the same for twice the price. Yes, the Dupont teflon spray is the best chain 'lube' deal on the planet.....
Fantastic head to head comparison, no bullshit and straight to the point.
thank you
If it's "straight to the point," you don't need the two words. "No Bullshit.' Don't curse. It's superfluous and distracts from the intention of communicating.
You keep on delivering on your promise of having your own opinion... and I really appreciate that. I have waited for the usual rant about the Honda's too complicated switch gear... ;-)
I have made the decision between these two bikes a little more than a year ago, and in the end decided in favour of the Africa Twin. I also chose the manual version over the DCT.
Let me give you some comments on my decision:
1. Power: I think that the target audience for both bikes is less interested in raw engine power than most motor journalists themselves think. I have no doubt that the GS(A) outperformes the ATAS any minute, but on an absolute level I have never ever felt underpowered on the Honda in the year that I have been riding it. Fun fact: This has been confirmed when the chief editor of the leading german-language motorcycle website 1000 PS took the ATAS for a tour together with his son last year and admitted that he never felt he did not have enough power. I guess that is a very personal decision, but if you are travelling and not racing the AT should be sufficient.
2. Switch Gear: I am with you on that one. The possibilities of the Honda outweigh the complicated settings, although I have to agree that some things could have been made better. However, if it is your personal bike you get used to it and - in my experience - hardly ever use it. I have preconfigured the two rider modes for my personal taste and only ever switch between these two. But I am super happy that I could adjust the suspension to my considerable weight.
3. Seat: One downside from my point of view is the seat. As I have already written, I am a heavy guy and I got heavy pain after an hour of riding. I then had the original seat tweaked by Jungbluth (vendor here in Germany) and that made a huge difference - not just for my butt but also for the overall ergonomics. So that should be something to keep in mind.
4. Tires: The original tires on the ATAS really suck. The front tire desintegrated after a few thousand kilometers and that is a known problem of Bridgestone's AX41T, which is an OEM tire only built for the ATAS. At least here in Germany Bridgestone accepts their responsibility and offers riders who complain a compensation. As I ride only on the streets I have switched to the Bridgestone A41 and that has elevated the on-road performance to a new level.
After a year now I have not regretted my decision for the Honda one single time. An added bonus to me personally has been the attitude of the BMW dealers here in Berlin which made me happy to avoid them - but that might be different in other parts of the world. However - like the advertisement from the 70ies said: You meet the nicest people on a Honda. ;-)
Good stuff, you are making a progress with the channel. You are becoming a go to guy for the models you are testing/ evaluating. Cold analytical attitude, listening to the viewers, lack of bias or testosteron driven conclusion. Digging it, man.
There’s a bit of testosterone present….be fair, ha ha
Thanks Albert. That's the idea.
@@BigRockMoto A great review - but I'd love to hear your thoughts and opinion about pillion comfort and the riding dynamic of these bikes with a pillion - I believe this one factor weighs in heavily for making a more informed decision. Thank you!
@@Ramdas_Devadiga I agree.
The main reason I would buy one of these bikes, is to take the wife along on road trips.
She will want her luggage, as well.
The channel really has come a long way. The presentation skills are a big step up over three years ago.
I have a 2022 Africa twin adventure dct. Love it. Gonna be hard to go back to manual transmission. Only real complaint is the seat is not that comfortable but after 3000 miles gotten used to it. Live in Texas not a lot of off road riding mainly county dirt road gravel works great. Pavement riding has been great. Had a 800 gsa few years ago wasn’t a big fan of it. Mainly ridden big Harleys over past 30 years. Don’t think you can go wrong with the Africa twin. Fun bike on and off pavement.
I got my new Africa Twin on 11th of May with dct and el suspension in black mat.
Gorgeous bike.Love it.NEVER AGAIN MANUAL TRANSMISSION
Greetings from Greece ride safe and enjoy your bike bro.
Poor baby, maybe buy a 2000 dollar cushy seat ?
Dct automatic transmission is a horrible idea on a motorcycle.
@@TC-iz6xe try it first and then you can judge
@@basilishellas7291 I have its garbage. Its designed for amateur riders might as well get a scooter
You are definitely the best comparison/ road tester on the net with honest none biased opinions, 👍
Any test will prove what yours did. Great video. Africa Twin still is the King.
Great video. You developed yourself so much over the last year. I used to almost fall asleep with your older videos. Now you have so much more energy and it is fun watching you. The info is prepared and well edited. Keep on the good work!
Occasional fun memes now as well. Bonus time
Are you a judge bro?
@@misterchuck6866 ''Mic-drop moment'', I'll have
to remember that one lol..
thanks!
I was leaning very heavily toward the GS BMW but I will be spending at least 6 months each year in Thailand. As a result and knowing that I can get a Honda serviced even in very remote areas of Thailand whereas a BMW would be best serviced in major cities there I am going with the Africa Twin 1100. Your review was also very interesting and provided several other good reasons for me to go in the Honda direction. I always appreciate your knowledge and commentary. Thanks for being there.
Hey man I don't do off road riding but love how detailed your reviews are. The love you're showing for the AT is making me reconsider a NT1100 for a tourer.
I had the GSA for 2 years and did 30K on it. It is the best road bike money can buy. Super comfortable and totally agree with all the points made. I loved not having to do chain maintenance but hated smacking my shins on the cylinders and how awkward it felt on softer surfaces. Next bike though will probably be an Africa Twin or maybe even a T700 or 701.
T700 is the best touring/adventure/off-road motorcycle money can buy. I don't need "more".
@@selcukcilek555, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
@@peterkrarup9222 That's what I said.
Greetings from Serbia !! every video of yours is great, just keep it up !! and thanks for these reviews because you help with the choice and explain everything nicely !!
One of the few moto UA-camrs I actually enjoy and watch for credible info. A bit boring from time to time but always well-conveyed in-depth information.
A very good channel but he's awfully serious... You can smile and still make good points
@@Roger_Ramjet I watch that Canadian bloke for entertainment. As mentioned here a little boring and long-winded. Here I get the full story though, a fair tradeoff. ;)
Excellent video. Thank you so much for posting. As a very loyal Honda owner ( I have a 2016 Africa Twin) I’ve been looking at a new bike lately. This is truly helpful. I’ve gone back-and-forth between the new 1100 ATS version as well as the GSA and you point out some very good talking points here. As far as the valve adjustment I 100% agree. I recently made a video on this showing how much of a pain it really is, and the GSA takes the maintenance category hands-down even with the air filter changes as you mentioned.
I'm very happy with my BMW R1250GS and I have always liked the Hondas that I've owned over the years. My riding style leaned more to the BMW highway to adventure. Big thumbs up for a good comparison of the brands.🤠👍
This is a bloody great channel, your bike reviews are some of the best I have seen.
Great video as always. Agree 100% on all. Just purchased 3 weeks ago my 22 Africa twin 1100es adventure sports dct and love it so far. Did all my homework comparisons between these two and also the Tiger 1200 gt explorer. My personal choice was based on price, maintenance cost, parts and accessories cost, also dealers locations and reliability. I'm coming from Harley davidson sporter, street glide, road glide and Honda VTX 1800 all of them shifted gears, but this dct from Honda ohhh man it's a dream on how smooth and quick it shift, and in heavy city traffic is a home run. I still keep my 07 Honda VTX 1800 and this AT now for my adventures days, I'm very satisfied with my decision and can't wait for my next ride.
I would only add that if your riding is 70/30 road, off road, the GS is a far better choice for long distance travel. At least, that is what convinced me to go with the standard GS.
@Paul Paul faster, more passing power, plusher, better cornering, plus, it looks much better at Starbucks😀. I looked at them all before buying the GS and all the other brands kept comparing their offering to the GS. So, I concluded the benchmark was worth the staggering price.
Thanks!
another great review Ian. I rode Red for years before moving to BMW. Both great/reliable bikes. I'll stick w/ my GSA though since most of my riding is done long distance on-road.
This is the comparison I’ve been waiting for. I had a GSA for 7 years and loved it up to the day I sadly had to sell it when I moved out of the US. Now I’m on a 2020 Africa Twin here in France and love it as well. I’ve been curious how the AT would stack up against the newest GSA. Thank you for this great review!
I have a gsa 21. My 7th. Tried the AT sport and wasn’t expecting much! I was surprised how good it was! Very quick and handled well, I still prefer the GS much prefer the simplicity of the suspension adjustment and it stays in the same setting! AT suspension was too fiddly and complicated. I mostly use my GSA for touring and it suits this very well. The AT is good but for me the GSA stays.
I feel the same. The GS excels on the highway where the 19” front is not a disadvantage like it is off road
How is the ES on the ATAS complicated? There are 5 settings to choose from on a touch screen and that's it. 🤷♂️
@@andrewkitchenuk less so on the GS .. simple as that.
Surpised you didn't get the DCT. Any reason why,? In the past you indicated if you had the option of with or with out DCT you would pick up a DCT model.
I hope you give a detailed breakdown vid of your Norden experience - put it together with Bret Tkacs' vid with his 790 - it can only improve things if people put it out there. Cheers!
I’ve had a BMW GS and a GSA, loved them both but then last November I test rode a a brand new ATAS DCT ES…..I was sold ten minutes into the test ride for the very same reasons you have mentioned. Absolutely love mine 😎👍🏻
I don't consider DCT to be a real motorcycle. It's your choice though. Just saying.
@@Comrade134 And automatic cars aren't "real cars" said every wannabe tough guy pre 1990s. Like as dumb as saying a phone that doesn't use an old school roll number dial isn't a real phone. Or an airplane with jets vs propeller isn't a real airplane. The problem is with the nostalgia obsessed crowd, not the new tech. And I will ALWAYS have a traditional bike to compliment my increasing DCT arsenal. It's like surfing shortboards and longboards, the shortboard crowd has a fragile ego and if they see you on a log assume you can't rip, then you come out on a shortie and rip and they give you attention.
The problem is with their ego, not the easier barrier-of-entry longboard users. Similarly, the problem is you being attached to what you're used to and identify as. You had to LEARN to ride and find it unfair others can be a "biker" without learning manual. I think its an important skill to have, but the problem is absolutely the one who clings to his old school ways as if its the only way to "really do it". Psychologically, its their fragile egos that the thing they're proud of is getting to easy to be a part of. It's your choice to be bitter and attempt to make objective definitions subjective out of an inferiority complex.
@@AuRowe in this case you should probably be riding an electric motorcycle since you like to jump on the bandwagon of science. Some of us like to work the transmission and feel an intimate connection with the machine the same way an old gentlemen enjoys listening to a vinyl record in an analog stereo while indulging in his taste for aged tobacco and leather boots.
@@mohamedsiddig2850 I specifically said I'll always have a tradition clutch bike, but DCT has as much a place as automatic cars. And DCT has as much of a scrutiny as automatic cars did when they first came out. Not a fan of electric motorcycles because they're difficult to maintain without proprietary computer software resets.
Totally in accordance with all the analysis and the results, I had a bmw gsa 1200 and I sold it with the idea of buying the new gsa 1250, but after trying the Africa twin, apart from the great price difference of €9000 that I think it does not compensate, apart from that for me and for my use Africa is superior in every way to the bmw
That’s why GS is so popular among the big bike riders here, it’s excellent touring machine, only a tiny percentage brings their bikes off-road so no one gets bothered with the synthetic feeling of the telelever shocks. Props to you
Both are extremely comfortable, comparing to the other bikes in the segment, and both are extremely heavy.
I would take the AT only because I don't really like the way the boxer engine feels and sounds. Although I find the AT exhaust annoying.
That said, and having owned a T7... Heavy bikes is a big no for me. And these two are way heavier than the T7.
Having 160HP is amazing, isn't it? And having that off-road and rain mode that tunes it down to 100hp is even better.
Anyone claiming 100HP is not enough, has never ridden these bikes, or is a KTM lover.
To me, your logic extends even farther down the ladder. The ATV unicorn is, say, a CB500X with 15 more hp, better suspension, and upgraded electronics. KTM's rumored 500 may hit the sweet spot, especially if the wet weight is around 400 lbs.
@@posteroonie if a unicorn needs more this or less that...
Not a unicorn.
@@zefautino Yes the CB500X isn't there yet. Point is that the unicorn for me will be still smaller than the T7, closer to dual-sport territory. Interstate travel will never be a trip highlight for me, just a necessary evil, so I'm always interested in smaller bikes for off-road, backroads, and mountain roads.
The R1250 wears its weight better, it's less top heavy.
@@posteroonie the 500X is far from there.
You can't compare it to a T7, 790 or AT. It's a completely different segment. It's a CBR500 with longer suspension. Yes, it is exactly what it is. Riding position is really bad for anything other than the road/city, and it's off-road capabilities are non-existent. It just looks somewhat capable. Yes, I did try it on the dirt. It's fukcing awful.
My target is an African twin. I went and saw and test it last week and I got crazy about it. Can't wait to get my hands on it. Thanks for your awesome videos. 👌 I love Gs too but for me is too expensive. Like with the money I will save I can buy for me and my wife the best equipment and luggage and have some money for a trip also
Great comparison. I looked at the AT briefly but when it came down to it, I went with the GSA for several of the reasons you mentioned - shaft drive, power, wind/weather protection, and yes, appearance LOL. I really wanted more of a road bike that was able to go off road rather than the other way around, and for my intended riding the GSA’s off road ability far exceeds my own. Good video 👍
Get your eyes tested
👍🏼 Yep.
Ive had both and ridden both long distances. In the end I just upgraded to a 22 Africa twin. Most of my trips now are between 3 and 10 thousand miles into desolate territory at times. I’m never far from a Honda dealer no matter where I am in the world and the older I get the more the bmw scared me sometimes being over a thousand miles away from a dealership if I needed help. The dct was the deciding factor though. After a couple hundred thousand miles I’m tired of shifting. I don’t think I can ever go back. It’s a BIG deal if you haven’t tried one.
I think you did an excellent comparison. One thing that might be interesting for a future video would be the addition of the crash bars to the ATAS and maybe a center stand and what that does to the weight gap? I think a big chain drive you want a center stand to just help with regular cleaning and lube especially if you hit off road much. I like the car play too for all the reasons mentioned and think Honda made the right choices there and also with the suspension settings and then keeping things less complicated. You packed a lot of info here, it was well organized and presented. Thanks!
Oh my! I ordered my BMW R1250 GS Adventure 40th year edition about 2 months ago and I'm told it will hit Chicago in another 2 days. I bumped into the Honda Africa Twin a couple of days ago and it started my head spinning. Now that I've seen your video I'm torn! My first big BMW coming so let's see how it goes. But thanks so much for this great review and all the others I've seen that you've done. Very valuable information and much appreciated!
Thanks for the comparison. Regarding AT did you consider DCT? I know you did a test on one of those in the past. What made you lean to manual over DCT. Thanks
I’d like to see your opinion on the new 2022 Tiger 1200.
As always, you've provided a compelling and honest evaluation! At 77 years young, my wife recently convinced me to part with my BMW R1150RT and I'm nostalgic whenever I see the void it left in my garage. As a former member of the Gotham City Riders in Manhattan (Malcolm Forbes was a member), we engaged in positive, charitable motorcycle activities that garnered us an enviable reputation with the public and in the media. We were a bunch of fun-loving guys whose club motto was "Financially stable, mentally questionable"! In the past ten years since the advent of Uber drivers in New York City, the caliber of drivers has declined to a level where it's no longer comfortable riding. There are, also, too many unlicensed and uninsured motorists, and a preponderance of battery-powered bicycles ridden by morons (to be kind), defying traffic laws and making riding less enjoyable. While I still maintain a residence in New York, I acquired eight waterfront acres along Harris Creek on Maryland's Eastern Shore near St. Michael's. My plan is to pester my wife to agree to purchase a Honda Africa Twin because at the shore I only have to worry about the deer and the wild horses at Assateague Island.
2:00 this is how every bike review video should begin, you have my respect.
Yet another awesome video! You are getting so good at what you do - thank you!! I personally have a GSA and your comments about it are spot on! I haven't had any experience with the Honda AT, but the arguments for it as a next replacement are compelling. The weight and seat height are becoming more of a factor as I get older (and shorter). Thanks again for an quality comparison and greetings from South Africa!
to be honest. I would rather a DR650. Air cooled less to break when you are out in the wild. Plenty of power.
Very interesting comparison and I can appreciate how difficult this video was to make. Thank you for opening my eyes to certain aspects of the A. Twin, such as the instrument panel. The cost differential of the two bikes is substantial. Once again, thanks.
Thank you for the great comparison. One Question I NEVER see any reviewer covering,, Which adventure bike is preferable with a passenger? I love riding, but My wife also, very often, wants to ride. I can't get her to get her own bike. So, for comfort and bike handling characteristics. Thank you.
I really like both but the replacement of parts that might get broken is very expensive, I lean toward the Africa Twin, but doing routine maintenance is a bit of a pain. and the fairings and bodyworks might be a little fragile.
Very fair and accurate, IMHO, comparison. It's a very interesting video. Two things that I would like to thank you. My english is not the best and I was able to understand you due your clear accent and your adequate speech speed, and to finish, to be so kind to put the technical measurements in both US and in the international metric system. Thanks and regards from Spain!
Thanks Ian - long awaited review, and you did justice to both bikes. I feel that scoring price the same way as the other parameters is not really fair. The AT is 30% less expensive, which is a big deal, especially when Honda managed to come up with a comparable if not better bike for the money. Also - I would like to hear more about reliability - Honda is famous for reliable bikes, and I heard some horror stories about BMW. How would they score on that parameter?
Seems like he mentioned AT poor access for air filter and valve adjustment? But you get to clean the chain, so there’s that. 😉
@@Porsche996driver he mentioned nothing about the bmw problems, even in warranty period. spokes being loose causing crashes? some fatal final drive failures? I think we'd all rather clean a chain rather than get stranded and pay thousands for a repair. Or have a holiday ruined waiting for parts. even bmw has a maintenance free chain now, makes you think about it more ha
@@beleatudor yes, warranty Issues Need to be mentioned, I personally had a Monoshock issue on my R1200rt, warranty job...never heard much about It Out There???? About 6 yrs ago...Funny how thing's get hushed up...🤭
Had a 2010 GS1200 for a couple of years, never had a problem but it wasn’t laden w layers and layers of electronics. Have a 2001F650GS, 2012 Harley ElectraGlide & a 2011 Kawasaki Concours14. EFI & ABS (& early TC on the Kawi) minimize the electronic gremlin possibilities.. I hope. 😀
In the end price is always one of the most individual and subjektive criteria: It depends on your personal financial setting. If $ 5000 would make your family starve go for a cheaper bike, if you have to enlarge your 5-car-garage for any of the two bikes anyhow it doesn't matter. Even the "average guy" might invest all of his disposable money in a motorbike or have other expensive hobbies that are to be considered. As Ian said: Don't take the overall score as result, weight the different arguments yourself.
What you failed to realize is that you never deserved to have the GS in the first place. There is nothing better in any way than a GS-A and dissent is not permitted.
Just joking and poking fun at the GS crew out there. Good video. Always enjoy hearing your take on things.
Very interesting comparison! One thing missing though: fuel consumption, mpg; the BMW has a bigger tank but can you actually go further between fills than the AT?
Great point, I think he said 8 gal on the GS,
range is probably comparable. I can see some
people loving 8 gal tanks, but for me, I'd have
wanted to stop every 3 gals or so to stretch and
walk around, coffee etc. lol
Finally, I've met someone else who doesn't lube their chain! :) I agree on that one! I also find it amazing that we've come to a time in motorcycling when 100hp on a 530lb bike is "kinda boring" ... wow! I get how other's have "more" but I don't see being "bored" with that kind of power (I've heard this same comment on just about every AT review as well...)
Glad you did this comparison!! I have a 2020 ATAS manual, and absolutely love it. It was my first adventure bike and first motorcycle in general really outside of a dual sport. I’ve always wondered about the GSA and how I would’ve found it compared to the AT. For the types of adventure riding I do either bike would be great I’m sure.. I’m running out of things I can buy to add to my AT so I may need to purchase a GSA to start over 😂 lol
Great comparison! I just purchased a brand new 2021 ATAS and couldn't be more satisfied! Mine is the black and gold.. they're all fantastic bikes. I live in Northern Maine.. and had to travel to NH to purchase it.. after a 6 month wait.. couldn't find one in Maine due to covid and all of that nasty business. Happy Trails Friend!
I’m travelling with a AT 2020 standard for five month now. And I absolutely love this bike, even though it’s a really heavy bike. Just wish Honda would have implemented a small box for my cellphone like Triumph does. Otherwise to be able to use CarPlay/android auto is awesome! Nice video as always!
Consider a quad lock charging mount. I don’t know about Android but Apple’s maps won’t turn off if there’s power going to the phone and you can use that big display for bike information. You’ll find you’re more adept at the phone touchscreen than the handlebar buttons and the bike touchscreen won’t accept input if the bike’s moving. If you can hold out Black Friday is your friend for that stuff.
@@zugmeister314 Thanks for advice! But I prefer to use the AT’s big screen for navigation. Currently I’m using a SW-Motech micro tankbag with my phone on top. But I don’t like to have a tankbag in front of me. Of course I could use any phone mount but then have to deal with the cable flying around. So I would really like to have a clean solution how to find at a Triumph Tiger 900. Probably have to figure out something by myself! 😉
Really enjoyed the thorough comparison. And most importantly, you got down to it with no waffle and padding. Hate it when reviewers blather on needlessly repeating themselves. Good work.
Great comparasion video, I am curious about wind protection, on the AT I had 3 gs's in the past and a few other adventure bikes, but the GS have been the best on providing wind protection, Its kind a interesting how many other brands don't pay attention to this important detail.
Cheers !
I think they do but struggle. The GS is naturally very wide at the front, which helps lend itself to better wind protection. The AT and T700 for example are narrow. Better for performance but less protection for the rider. KTM with the 890 have no excuse really. The bike is not narrow due the fuel tanks but they put that tiny bug like headlight on and 3 separate windscreen appendages (the screen itself, the side deflectors, the headlight mask) it just doesn't work for buffeting protection.
One of the best Motorcycle content on UA-cam. Congrats for almost 100K Subs. Cheers from Portugal.
As always.. Excellent review! Wish the manufactures were more aggressive when design weakness were exposed. I've owned multiple new BMW road machines and two GSA but will not own another.. I'll leave it at that.
I'm not excited about the competitions complicated valve maintenance either. Thank you for the comparison.
Best comparison video between these particular bikes available on youtube. Loved it👍
What octane fuel do these two bikes require ?
It may be an important factor for riders traveling in areas where fuel quality is poor .
AT uses regular (87 US octane) and BMW requires premium (91 US octane per the manual but not as easy to find as 93)
I can say with ~14k on my 2020 AT that it LOVES the 87 octane, better fuel mileage and crisper throttle response.
Africa twin would be better with poorer fuel due to being sohc and lower compression ratio.
@Leo the Cat Higher octane has no performance advantage. It only provides anti-knock protection. It allows you to run higher compression (which can be achieved by forced induction and/or piston/head design). Higher compression will generally provide higher performance but that brings in the higher chance of predetonation so higher octane is needed to combat that. So, as stated by others, the AT runs a lower compression engine so lower octane will work. You can run higher octane but it won’t run any better. The BMW, having a higher compression engine, needs that octane. You can run lower in a pinch but high heat or high engine loading could result in it knocking with potentially damaging results.
honest fantastic Comparison with clear sound and vid,..You make a great one, and make real easy to decide between or to knowledge.. 💯..
Great comparison, up front and honest opinions, appreciate it. I've sat on the AT and the seat feels so hard and uncomfortable, I know the "easy" fix is to just replace it but something I wouldn't want to do right away
We just love your videos, especially those where you play off road!
Watching your previous videos I was sure you're gonna get an AT but I was also pretty sure it's gonna be a DCT version. I was surprised when you said it was manual.
Great comparison, thanks Ian! I currently own a 2019 ATAS DCT which I replaced after owning the previous generation GSA. ATAS every day of the week - absolutely love it! - although I do miss the fantastic BMW aftersales service here in South Africa. I'm still not convinced that moving from the 1000cc to the 1100cc ATAS is worth the significant extra cost. Thanks for another great video :-)
when ever i see your videos on UA-cam a big smile came to my face like HERE COMES IAN 😀 oh waiting for this for a long time ☺️ wanted to buy bmw r1250 gsa and wanna travel all around north american continent and all around the europe ☺️ than i saw your Africa twin video and am so confused 😂 this video is perfect and by the way love your videos and the contents in it ❤️ love it love it love it 🤗❤️
You are my resource for all things motorcycle and I value your work. Thank you for great videos and content!
I can’t agree more with you!!! I have both a 1200GSA and a AT1100L and you were spot on with the pros and cons, and because of those differences I am keeping both! 🤣🤣 🤣
Forgot the T7 xD
this is a great overview for an only 21 minute video. No filler here.
Hello Ian, thanks for you video. I was wondering, when I recall you DCT AT video right, that you had a blast on the DCT version and I also recall, that you loved the GSA. Why didn´t you buy the DCT version?
My question exactly
Because the DCT takes away 90% of the pleasure of motor riding.
@@younesel 😂😂😂 so you got one? Or are you one of the wannabe experts?
@@younesel since when have you been riding bikes? DCT is superb and offers tons of fun.
@@GCTO239 well, to be honest, I did compare it with my experience with cars. It is, by definition a fact that driving with a stick is 90% more fun than driving with an automatic.
excellent video. I've been working on this very problem for 4 months now. You did a very good job helping me choose while considering a few items I had not considered.
Hello :) Thank you for this awesome comparison video. I am currently deciding between these two bikes. I am leaning towards Africa Twin 1100 AS as well, but i still don't know if i shoul go with DCT or Manual? Can you please tell me why you bought a Manual, i remember your video a while back where you praised the DCT saying that if you'd buy one it would be a DCT for sure. Please help? Thank you so much for all your hard work :)
Fair review Ian! Pros and cons to both. A new GS/GSA having a big price tag, which is why I’m still riding my 100hp ‘05 GS. No apologies, mine has been bulletproof, through freeways and canyons, regular maintenance helps!
Some really nice points raised, and of course at the end it is going to come down to personal preferences since both bikes are so different. My question is - why did you get the manual AT? You had such nice things to say about the DCT. I am wondering myself about getting the AT and this is probably my biggest question
Buy one ...the dct is very good ....i travel alot ...from south africa to namibia....i love it
Your analysis & reporting are getting better and better. Thanks for your honesty.
As gsa owner I would say that the seat issue is not much a matter of height but a matter of width. I replaced the seat with a low touratech which turns out to have a different shape and to be a lot narrower. This allows to put your feet on the ground closer to the centre of the bike making better use of their lenght. I’m as tall as you and my feet are entirely on the ground.
how tall are you Sir ?
As an older rider and wanting to save money. The 2021 ATAS DCT. Was the prime choice. I owned the 2016 model and loved it. And I only have two complaints. The Metzler Karoo street tires are awesome but are crazy noisy at highway speeds. And the wind screen sucks. Love your channel keep up the good work!
A very interesting review ! I’ve got the latest ATAS and absolutely love it. I think it does have a greater off road bias than the GS but is also good at touring. Also it’s nice and slim. I find the GS a bit ‘fat’.
Of course for an even greater off road bias there are the KTMs etc. all depends on the degree of road vs off road.
Still enjoy the ATAS?
@@TheFbiFilesRepeat certainly am. It’ll have real test in two weeks time, up to the arctic circle - As you do in the summer !
Again a great detailed comparison, clear and succinct :) I did notice you went silent on the AT screen time to power and the left controls ergonomics. Still, thank you (also for the metric conversions)
Hi Ian, great video👍 can you do a comparison between the AT and the f850gsa ? 😁
Great review. Extremely thorough. When discussing seat height, sharing your inseam is just as important as your height. You could be 5’11" with a 30" or a 34" inseam.
You missed another point there's a Honda Dealer in most every City worldwide. Good Review👍
Great comparison, Ian. I sold my 2014 GSA for 2020 low mile ATAS DCT ES. It’s so true that any comparison is subjective in the sense of what suits. I have a major issue with power and torque quoted figures because they tell nothing of an engine’s real world characteristics. Power curves are the only measure. And power is, after all, a function of torque and engine speed. I have a question: what is the screen on your AT? It looks wider and more contoured than the standard screen which is the only major failing other than, perhaps, tyres.
You're doing well! I already bought my KTM 890 but I am intrigued with your review of the other brands. keep going strong
This channel is rapidly becoming my go to for analytical reviews. Excellent work and thanks for the content!
The GS Suspention is unacceptible !
This was a great review. Thank you Ian. You really do a great job. Hope that your channel keeps growing.
From first hand experience of both bikes, AT is a nightmare for drop damage. Little annoyances like handed turn signals, stressed fairings which transmit damage to adjacent panels, and stock cases that you can't buy individual parts for.
For the GS you can get single bolts and latches for the panniers if necessary, the same turn signal fits all 4 corners, and the crash bars and fairings seem to survive more of the same drops on the same trails.
AT is a great bike in many ways but for anyone at regular risk of off-road damage I'd urge you to consider your wallet in the long run, too.
I have the AT AS, I use it offroad a lot and have dropped many times. No serious damage so far, just normal scratches. The OEM crash bars work very well
Very informative review.
Thanks for no MIDROLL ADS,
I let opening and closing ads run,
I hope others do as well.
You truly deserve 10 times the subscribers....your channel is one ofn the ONLY "real world" testing channels on YT. Your no bullshit way of reviewing the bikes you do is a refreshing watch. Keep it up.
I've now watched a range of your videos all of which are excellent and informative. Subscribed.
What is the fuel efficiency of Africa twin MT ?
Loved this comparison between these two. I have a 2021 AT, base model, 6 speed, but I have put a lot into it, i.e., full Panniers, engine guards, fairing guards, and even went as far as putting tubeless spoked rims on it which I attached a set of Michelin Anakee adventure tires on it. I put a set of Metzeler Karoo 3s on the original rims, for playing in the dirt. I am leaving southeast Alabama this Saturday and riding to California to do some riding on the PCH 1. If you happen to see me out there, run me down and say hey. Really love your videos, keep up the good work.
Ian, next level review, a professional in your craft.
Very helpful video as I just started looking at bikes, and these are both on my radar. Thanks!
Super informative, appreciate the time and effort you put into these.