The hate crime of the gay couple is what wakes up Pennywise, in the book it's explained he wakes up every 27 years and always is due to a extreme act of violence in the town
I would more say that the violent incidents were caused by the beginning and end of Pennywise's waking cycle, instead of the other way around. His slumbering influence churns out a low-grade taint into the town, and it boils over while he's active. Culminating in stuff like the factory explosion.
@@ghfiytdcoliuo8 Again, I haven't seen the movie yet. But I doubt it. Not to the depth that the book did. I've seen too many people puzzling over these elements to believe that it was conveyed properly
In the book Stanley killed himself because he remembered too fast. He got hit with a ton of PTSD. The rest of the losers club met at the restaurant to regain their memories slowly
I agree with Joe that the ending works on paper and it does make logical and lore sense. He's a space creature who gets stronger by eating fear because he can turn emotions into sustenance, so logically if you aren't afraid of him and belittle him it should hurt him. But the problem is that they went over the top with it by making him completely useless and turn into a baby. It would make more sense if mocking him / not being afraid made him weaker, but he was still able to fight and use some powers just not his full power. That way you still had room for a good ending and IT is still a threat
That would be awesome but since the studios are just making IT a carnival of jump scares to cater to an average audience I doubt we will get anything that’s actually “horror”. I don’t consider IT a horror movie at all.
@@tamapajamas the It movies dosent have as many jumpscares as modern horror movies is put right next to blumhouse movies and it's at best a thriller but i will give it respect on how they kill people in It with some tension and the creativity when they want a creepy vibe instead of a trail of blood on the floor like someone was on their period
@@noharmdone5661 Haven't seen the movie yet but - Pennywise's recent past is expanded upon several times in the book. Usually his involvement in other events during his periods of wakefulness. Like when he cropped up at a shootout in the.....30's? Going back further, the children get a vision of his arrival on earth, but I heard that was in the movie.
It's not really that it's iconic, but it's a fat chunk of the beginning. The movie barely touched on it other than to use as an opening kill and doesn't do enough with it to give it much value to the movie. In the book it goes to trial and there's reference to Shawshank, the movie barely breaks the surface.
That's not enough to justify it's existence, especially since the rest of the entire movie had a completely different tone. It felt like a scene from the original cut that they kept in because the movie isn't scary.
Do all of yall really think the opening scene served no purpose? Like it's just there for no reason? Did it really go over all of yall's heads? Like Mike monitoring his CB radio, Pennywise's first appearance by the river where they dumped the victim in, and the message that Mike finds from Pennywise at that particular crime scene? Like you really can't figure out why the scene was there? LMAO I mean if you don't like gays then that's one thing, but I mean at least try to watch the movie.
Pretty sure they used their powers and removing fear from themselves comes in the form of the spoken. So words inflicted damage, and fear gave them a shield. What killed it was them squeezing his heart. Just saying
Pennywise gave Bill the boat because he knew the Ritual wouldnt work!! It is fucking with the group. Because yeah, the ritual does not work actually. And Pennywise knew it wouldnt
The ritual DOES work but the two groups interpreted it differently. Those "artifacts" are there to help them overcome their fears. The ritual didn't work because they believed in it instead of themselves. Even the poker became a God killer just because Eddie thought it could kill monsters.
Exactly. Thank you for knowing that man. I mean, I do wish more people would actually read; yet what really bothers me far worse than the fact no one seems to ever read these days is the fact that they also are ignorantly scornful toward those which have read the novels... instead of being a tad bit ashamed of the fact they have not.... In all honesty they haven't read any other novels either; because they are not the level of individual which is capable of being that type of intellectually driven erudite.
So since you read the book, did you also hate the ending? Cause I really fucking hated it. Like in the book, it's so fucking brutal how pennywise dies and in this movie they just bully him and he just fucking dies
The movie itself never explains that about the scene though. Anyone without that knowledge beforehand would be understandably left confused as to what the point of the scene was which is a shortcoming of the film.
lmao that scene with the gay guys is taken straight out of the book, and it lets mike know that pennywise has returned, as when he does the town turns crueler.
Exactly, it's literally the first event in the book if I'm not mistaken. I frequently see people criticizing scenes which are direct connections to the book and it kind of pisses me off. These guys don't understand because they probably have not read the book and are biased by the old series/movie. I found the gay couple scene awesome, I wasn't expecting it and when I watched it got me into the movie really fast.
Hopefully it's not more of the solo Losers section that was completely by the numbers. That could've been cut completely from the movie and it would've been better. LOL
"The ending when Pennywise was shrinking was the funniest shit ever." Not nearly as funny as Pennywise dancing in the first one. For a moving starring someone named Pennywise the dancing clown, I was sorely disappointed to see that he didn't get lit on the dance floor in the sequel
The gay-bashing is from the book. It's the reprise of the cycle. Represents the dark undertones of Derry's history because the town is steeped in evil due to the monstrous cosmic entity that lies beneath; IT is from the endless abyss of infinity, an eater of worlds, an 'anti' to the creative, lifegiving forces of the universe. They went deeper than I thought they would, but not as far as I'd hoped. A brief visual - a cascading pass over/close to the turtle would have sufficed during Mike/Bill flipout; just a little extra to give us an idea of the utter vastness and scale of IT's origin. Maybe a director's cut with some deeper stuff? That would be a wish-list certainty.
Angry Joe: the scene where the gay character died it was about the fact that Diary was sick. That it makes the people evil. There's always an act of violence that wakes him up from his sleep. That was the violent act that woke him up for his 27 year sleep.
Ok, so what people are absolutely missing about the ritual is this. Pennywise WANTED them to perform the ritual. He feeds off fear. He also knew it wouldnt work because it was done to him in the past. So, he wanted them to try and fail. That fear of failure and absolutely no hope left, he believed, would totally break them and season his meat perfectly for his 27 year long wait for revenge. I get why people have a beef with the whole, Im going to insult you and weaken you to kill you, but it does make sense. We see what words do to the human psyche. They can destroy you and make you want to die. Why cant that be true for it. Also, this is an inter-dimensional being. Our laws of how things work dont always apply. When physical weapons wont kill it, maybe other things need to be applied. Years ago I would have HATED this ending. Im not in love with it, but Im 100% fine with it. As Joe explained, it makes sense using his own method against him. As they say, fight fire with fire.
Okay but the whole ritual was still kinda shit and lazy, a huge portion of the film consisted of formulaic fetch quests where the losers (obviously) split up and essentially experience the same jump scare routines from pennywise (pennywise was still awesome) and in the end pennywise was basically "lol, just as planned noobs!!!" And pennywise' death was absolutely terrible. I understand your point about words having an impact but c'mon... Their insults were dogshit and childish, they pathetically roasted a intergalactic cosmic being of pure evil and thats what won the day. In my opinion that was jusy objectively bad.
@@joelewis3865 I agree the insults definitely needes work, but I like the premise. Not everything can be killied with guns, fire, explosion, etc. I like the idea of what we think os unconventional working against something from a different dimension with far different laws and powers, but I agree exection could have been better. I think that's also the point of the quest it was so long and daunting and it was all for not so it makes it feel even worse because of time wasted.
@@jaredfrahm7679 The idea of turning pennywises own power against him is cool and is deffo a good premise to go for but the execution was very lackluster and cheap. And the wild goose chase for the ritual just felt like a waste of time to me, i just personally didnt like it but its fairs if anybody else did. My overall opinion of the film was that its a rollercoaster of missed opportunities. There were scenes that were just mesmerising and intense (pennywise and the little girl) and some that was just plain wasted (Henry Bowers)
When they are talking about the Adrian Mellon murder, I think they are a little uninformed. In the book, that part is very important to the overall narrative. It represents the beginning of a brand new cycle. The movie explains it as an "echo" but that is not clear and honestly just a cop-out because they werent able to adequately explain ANY backstory to Pennywise himself. Some mangled explanation for why bad things happen every 27 years can't adequately explain why something that graphic is fully commited to onscreen. Clearly the writers were fans of the book and we're honestly trying to stay true the source material while also dealing with the logistics of creating an, already bloated, major film. They didn't pull it off. The movie as a whole is only okay, but I think their intentions were not exploitative but instead coming from an honest translating of source material, no matter how unsuccessful it was.
I didn't have too much of a problem with the addition of the Mellon scene. I mean, it was in the source material. And to say that it was overly or gratuitously brutal, but then be okay with a scene 40 minutes later where a 4 year old gets her head bitten off, is saying what? There were, however, a couple sidesteps we took that were not necessary. The carnival scene with Bill being one--only that it pissed him off enough to separate from the group--but even that did not matter because they literally caught up with him immediately. It manufactured horror or suspense after a bit of a lull in material, so I would say that was more gratuitous than any scene.
@@josephcook1904 i may not have been entirely clear on my post, but i dont think anything was too gratuitous. I was more trying to speak from that perspective in the conversation just during that example of why the movie did not work thay well.
I think the point alex is making is that the scene lasts too long, the movie is three hours and ten minutes are devoted to the crime that re-awakens pennywise instead of focusing on other,later stuff. I get what you are saying, just stating what i think he wanted to say
@@Eisenwulf666 Uhm, but the book makes a pretty strong point about how brutal violence can awake pennywise aside from the 'normal' cycle. It makes perfect sense to have the intro scene, I'm not even sure the scene is that confusing.
It also works as a way to set up Richie's dilemma about coming to terms with his own sexuality. It's no wonder that he'd try to hide it if stuff like this keeps happening in Derry.
you'd think that they would have even watched a brief summary of the book online. I believe ASOIAF did a review of the beginning of the book as a "what causes IT to awaken" segment.
Pennywise isn't a creature that can be killed physically, so the ending worked for me. This is why it is hard to do a proper Cthulhu game, because Cthulhu isn't something you fight...it is something whose presence you have to mentally overcome. AngryJoe is right on the plan working on paper, because it worked in the book. In a book you can describe things like: Joe's legs buckled under the intense pressure of the clown's presence, its craving for fear far beyond what Joe had anticipated. Memories flash by, each one resurrects a long-buried fear kept hidden in the mind of the Angry Commander. "Four hours!" A muffled voice calls. "Loot boxes! Suprise Mechanics!" shouted another. Angry Joe feels his anger rising. "Fifa!" The clown shivers. Something had changed. Joe is still being consumed, but only when Pennywise peers deeper into the mind of his prey does he realize something else had claimed his meal. A Wildfire of angry thoughts seizes the clown by the throat, igniting its skin with the pure intensity of Angry Joe's wrath! That all sounds cool. But in a movie....your only bet would be to take a note from anime and use crazy graphics to display the mental battle that takes place between two people who are standing still.
I think there should have been a mixture of the insults but still physical attack as well like not being afraid insulting him we can't m enough so that they could fight him but that there is still an actual fight
But they do physically kill him, they crushed his heart. I am so confused, and I dont get when they crush his heart how that killed his deadlights? the heart and the deadlights were two seperate things. Why doesn't he just make them all crazy with his deadlights, that was his most effective power and he barely uses it man im so confused
Dear Joe, please read your comments. LET ALEX TALK. I cant count how many times you just cut him off and move on to something you want to talk about. Alex even looked at OJ at one point like "is this guy serious?" Let your guests talk
Alex is not interesting enough, nor does he have legitimately thoughtful opinions on most things. He is a classic pessimist with undertones of depression.
@@ZayTech91 This excuse is so retarded. So he can be an asshole and just jump in to everyone because it's his show? Why even have them then? Record yourself alone and you can talk all day.
McArnold Richard’sGravyTrain no, it’s not. Especially when it’s not affecting anyone else but the two people who are in love. That’s was to show how hateful people are,
His presence corrupts the people of Derry, Stephen King did not hate gays, when he was writing his book and snorting pounds upon pounds of cocaine. Someone killed a gay man in almost the same way near him in Maine and included it into his book, except there wasnt a killer space clown showing up
Yeah that isn’t actually how it happened in the book but okay, be disappointed by something that wasn’t even correct 😂 (The turtle barfs up our universe, doesn’t carry it on his back)
if it feeds off your fear then why did he try to befriend gorgie an the little girl under the bleechers... he tried to make them not scared to munipulate them ... he also just kinda killed the guy gay who you could say he never really scared even tho he prob was scared to have beeb beaten an thrown in a river
Taylor G are you six? you can glady meet me in person and find out homie .. its called small keyboard on an iphone... dont really give a fuck about spelling typos when what i said i easy to understand. fucking waste of oxygen this guy.
@@DannyConcepts oh here's the little kid trying to act tough by sending threats over a comment on UA-cam. What are you trying to accomplish, nobody cares, grow the fuck up
Pennywise's true form isn't a spider, it's the closest the human mind can perceive. He doesn't feed off their fear but their belief of their fear. This is why children are especially vulnerable. I wish they had stayed true to the real ritual of Chüd. As a huge fan of the book I was pretty disappointed.
Alex the reason why the gay couple getting beat up meant something was bc if you remember, in the first movie pennywise being awakened in derry changes the town. People act crazier and meaner etc. In the first movie all the adults are basically socks and don't care about the kids. So pennywise was near the festival and those guys beat the gay couple bc his affect on the town and on their mental State, and so he could eat the guy
@@lukesilletta9295 I like Alex, he keeps it real, I wouldn't trust his ratings if he were just handing out 9s and 10s to every movie, u gotta remember he is a CRITIC. So he must be critical of the movies and call out flaws.
Pennywise didnt shrink cause of the insults. his power came from the fear of his victim. in the moment the heroes going to shrink him with insults there were no source of fear so pennywise lose his power to fight them. that was shown in both movies. how you could miss that?
Some element of almost everything discussed - makes total sense if you've read the book. The metaphysical aspects are explored in depth. I suppose that's the director's challenge to translate these concepts well.
They are reviewing the movie they saw, not the book, i mean they are not fans of the universe as so many viewers and yeah i read the book, but i would like it to see more deep stuff in this movie.
The name calling thing was stupid, but...I’m the first one when Beverly gets captured. Penny wise picks her up trying to scare her, Beverly says “I’m not afraid of you” and he kind of pauses and he notices somethings wrong, he like shakes his head around in discomfort. So good little detail in the first movie.
Just my takeaway, but I feel like the reason Stan directly remembers even though he left Derry is because he was directly consumed/attacked by IT when they were kids. Beverly saw the deadlights so she had some kind of connection but she wasn't actually attacked/consumed by it.
The opening scene has a lot of meaning, Pennywise is fueled and brought back to his form after 27 years by some form of extreme fear of hurt that someone is going through. So the couple in the beginning being beaten was the reason Pennywise was able to come back.
The bashing of Adrian Mellon on the bridge was an important part of the book. It was good to see it in the film, but it wasn't used to effect to explain the dark undercurrents of Derry. The Ritchie gay line was more of a 'woke' position of the film. I originally thought Ritchie did have a male partner when introduced in the book - but flipping back through it today I was wrong. I dont think there is anything in the book that gives a picture of Ritchie's sexuality.
In the book Richie gets a vasectomy--not a popular procedure amongst the gay community, especially 35 years ago...I believe he got it after a pregnancy scare. And the follow up tests proved that his sperm was still perky--yet still no kids...Proof of the no child 'curse'...Technically in the 90 miniseries, he checks out a younger female library tech, to which the clown replies: "A little young for you, isn't she?" So, there is precedence of Richie not being gay...
@@BlackangelKatakuri 😑😑😑 you're one of those guys... And in the book, its implied that Eddie was closeted. So they just flipped it and gave it to Richie. And guess what dude, there are people who are gay! Its more realistic actually to have a gay person. A closeted gay person at that who doesnt want to admit it. You "get woke, go broke" people are some of the worst parts of the internet
5 років тому+10
Well... the "space spider" final form is reffering to what Pennywise is: A space entity. A god.
I took a lot of the penny-wise attacks as him trying to scare them enough to actually be able to harm them. as evidenced at the end of the film he cannot harm them if they don't fear him. I think Beverly is the only attack where penny-wise could have outright killed her. She was terrified. Bringing Bowers back was because he needed someone that could harm them without the restrictions penny-wise has (the fear thing) but the whole dead kid driving bowers around made no sense to me, if he is able to control things like vehicles, why can't he use them during his attacks? I also enjoyed the difference in scares toward the Losers as adults, the attack in the restaurant could have been him just trying to scare them off (which he almost did) as ridiculous as it was, it would scare most people away. The other attacks were also not terrifying as adults because we are able to actually fight back. If it was child Beverly locked in that apartment with pennywise it would have been a much more intense scene, but since she is an adult it is much less suspenseful. That old lady monster was still creepy as hell though. Every move penny-wise made was an attempt to scare them off or split them up, i think that is also why he doesn't attack adults, because they don't have that same level of fear. Just my two cents though. At the end, i think he was legit trying to kill them as the big spider monster. But as a group they have less fear and thus make it harder for him to kill. Or maybe they were actually dodging his attacks... Eddie was shown to be too scared to act, and even though he saved Richie, he was still scared. That might be why Penny-wise was able to stab the fuck outta him. or maybe because Eddie stopped moving and turned his back. Penny-wise could have rekt Richie too when he was shouting at him "Let's play truth or dare! here's a truth, you're a bitch" so Penny-wise had to use the deadlights on him same as when Beverly stood up to him. He had no way of harming him without fear and Richie very obviously was showing no fear. Also, i think the bullying him to baby form was part of the "if you believe it, it will hurt him" line of thinking. It wasn't the words, it was the belief and courage of all 5 losers standing up to him with the unified willpower (battle of wills, invocation of chudd or w/e.) "you're all grown up" Is a pretty common thing that people (including bullies) say to people coming back to their town. I assumed Stephen King heard that shit a lot from his ex bullies during his HS reunions or some shit. same with the "the ending sucked" Also, i love the scene where Beverly kisses Bill, you can tell from her body language she isn't fully into it. Her hands are raised and she seems to be leaning back, even though she thinks he is someone she really cares about romantically. When she kisses Ben at the end there is no leaning back and her hands go up, and then wrap around him. They didn't call attention to it and it was so easy to miss but i love that little detail. Edit: Completely agree with the opening scene. From a filmmaking/storytelling perspective it was completely pointless, It was very brutal too. I think it was added for the sake of LGBT brownie points, similiar to the "Endgame: Female avengers, ASSEMBLE!" scene.
@@pennywise5662 Did it happen exactly as it did in the book? I do not know. But from a movie stand-point it was overdone. 10 mins in a 3 hr movie that could have been spent on character development. It also did not highlight Pennywise in a decent way. the bullies performed all the brutality and pennywise was an afterthough. "lets have pennywise pick him out of the water and then bite him, next scene." It was just a waste of time. Personally i liked the portayal of how homophobia is still an fucked up problem in certain parts of the world, but it didn't build the movie in any way
@@Happymouth1 Almost exactly, but the attackers also saw IT. The film just didn't do the trial or police questioning that happens after showing the town compliancy in overlooking its activities of IT and further developing the town itself as a character. The town is as much of a character as the Loses or IT in the novel. There are a lot of book accurate nods that honestly bog down the story they chose to tell in the film. It's the no-win scenario with a book so giant and varied in tone as IT is. Considering it was at least entertaining is pretty impressive, since the second half of the miniseries is boring, and the book turns into an interdimensional mind fuck with a giant spider.
Pennywise knew that insults and power of mind were indeed his weaknesses, which is why he instantly uses the dead lights to stop Richie in his tracks as soon as Richie starts talking smack and throwing rocks. He shut that down in a heartbeat.
He doesn't kill them at will straight away as he feeds off their fear. I can't see why Alex does not understand why he kills the guy after he puts the spear into him, it's obvious.
I agree with Joe to me it makes sense pennywise feeds off fear it makes him stronger and if you don't fear him its shown that he is vulnerable and if expoilted to its max potential be his demise Idk I felt like even though it was a bit corny it works after all this is the story of kids who are just grown up now
I do think the ending works, because you took away his power once you make him realize his power is non existence, if he feeds on fear than someone unafraid would weaken him. You can't kill it physically because it can do whatever it wants , you have to beat it on its level, beyond the physical world
How Pennyise dies makes sense to me. He feeds off their fear and that makes him stronger. At the end of the first film, we see that if they don't fear him, then they can beat him. And in the second one, they take it one step further and verbally abuse him to the point where he is absolutely powerless because they turned the fear around on him. I mean, he spent both films scaring and abusing them and then we see them do the same to him in the end. And I thought the opening was fine, since we know that Pennywise has an effect on the town and turning everyone (except the heroes) into assholes. And Bev fell in love with the idea that Bill had wrote the poem (and he was the leader of the group and such), only to find out that the one guy she did not expect (Ben) was the one she really connected with (since Ben was there for her every time as well. Bill wasn't). And the reason the Losers club forgot about what happened in Derry when they were children except for Mike who never left is that IT can control those who are weak willed and make them ignorant of what happens around them, which is why the adults there do not do anything to stop him. And once most of the losers are out of it's range, they start to forget what had happened to them.
My biggest problem with the ending is that it missed a great opportunity about the power of the mind being used as a form of combat...or at least they missed an opportunity to do it in a way that wasn't laughably ridiculous. They even set it up in the previous movie. Pennywise looses his power when they aren't afraid and, more importantly, Bill is able to shoot Pennywise in the head with the cow gun thing even though it isn't loaded. I can't believe they put that in the film and never reference or use it again. They kind of hint at it with the spear that "kills monsters".....stupid line by the way, I thought this was the adult version, but that is a REAL spear...that actually hurts!! No mental powers there, it's just a sharp object. Also, when I saw Ritche get caught in the deadlights and they show that shot where it looks like the deadlights are projecting the image of Pennywise...I thought they were gonna do something cool and creative. I even thought..."oh shit, that's right!! His true form is just light! Everything else is just mental powers." But that shot comes and goes without anything cool happening and we're left with the stupid "bully him to death" ending. I wish they had tried the bully thing but then he stabs and kills another member of the losers and then they quickly realize that was a dumb idea and they need to think of a different strategy. That's what that idea deserves. Someone in the writer's room had to be saying "this CAN'T be the best ending we can think of...right guys?!?! It is? Ok, shit. I guess we suck all of a sudden"
The hate crime was supposed to be part of the lore of Pennywises influence on the town. It's even longer in the book. I liked it because one of my big criticisms of this movie was the lack of the city as a character that feels so present in the book. Also of course the gay would be a target because IT uses the hate of people to bring him closer to eat
Some of the stuff you talk about that was weird (such as the gay couple) were just scenes from he book. That's why they were so weird for movie viewers.
It's explained that Stanley killed himself because of a sort of virus he got from being exposed to the dead lights. Apparently all of them had the virus growing in them but Stanley was the first to go because he was the weakest. But then they throw that away and say "Nah, he just wanted to cut himself out of the picture to help the group"
The gay guy that came out with pennywise towards ricky was the same guy he played street fighter with 27 years ago that was also the cousin of the "bad guy" (forgot his name, the one that ended in the psych ward)
Steve harvey: what is something you do not want to see? Random guy: Naked! Grandma! Steve harvey: NAKED WHAT!??! -crazy naked grandma from IT starts Running-
Yeah... some things were great but.... Henry Bowers resolution, The IT final form, And ESPECIALLY the fact we don;t get that scene with Maturin. Brought the movie down.... IT really is a solid 6/10. But damn Alex i swear your the Simon Cowell of the group.
@@breakhammer87 No.... no no no I DON'T CARE I get that "of course it wouldn't get to explain how he literally vomited up the universe." BUT DAMN IT MUSCHIETTI PROMISED US MATURIN! I wouldn't have even cared if he was just a flash in that scene where Bill was having that vision with Mike I WANTED TO SEE HIM!!! Maybe if they do a prequel like Muschietti was considering then maybe we'll see him then.
Even though it came off a little corny in theaters, I totally agree with Joe that it makes sense on paper. I think it would’ve been better if they weakened him by talking & showing him that they’re not scared & THEN followed up by more of a physical battle leading to victory. Winning from pure talk comes off a little odd
my favorite part of the film was the kersh apartment scene because it was a (mostly true) portrayal of the scene in the book. (in the book the room turns into a gingerbread house where everything's candy and the tea is shit) overall i enjoyed it a lot but as a fan of stephen king's works and the book i couldn't help but notice things that they changed like stan's letter to the gang at the end, henry's death, and the changing of the ritual of Chud from the Turtle to native american shamans.
Yeah, and the silver worked in the first part because the kids believed it worked, not because the intergalactic space spider is actually weak to silver.
Its so annoying when they complain about some Iconic scenes from the book and IN Ignorance claim they were unnecessary.....) One of the Greatest Modern horror stories of all times..Joe and crew "We could write a better story......sure guys..sure...
You didn't mention how the film rips off The Thing by having a "human" head grow spider legs. Bill Hader even quotes Kurt Russel's character, word for word. And almost immediately after that, he says: "Eddie, are you OK?". Which is part of the lyric to Michael Jackson's Smooth Criminal...
This is why Pennywise isn't in Mortal Kombat. Because Johnny Cage would kill him in the intro before the fight starts.
Lmao
@@kuroburton83 This is ri-goddam-diculous.
kuroburton83 gay?
@@golaughxd1079 Johnny Cage makes an Austin Powers reference when fighting a mirror match.
That would be hilarious though
Stop being mean guys, I don't feel so good.
Sorry pennywiser
Your hair is stupid
Shut up you doodoohead.
Your nose is stupid as your forms and your mama is uglyyyyyyy as your clown form ah haha
Hey, your nose is red! :D And you're bald! :D
The hate crime of the gay couple is what wakes up Pennywise, in the book it's explained he wakes up every 27 years and always is due to a extreme act of violence in the town
I would more say that the violent incidents were caused by the beginning and end of Pennywise's waking cycle, instead of the other way around. His slumbering influence churns out a low-grade taint into the town, and it boils over while he's active. Culminating in stuff like the factory explosion.
@@TropicChristmas definitely. In the novels it's explained that Derry and Pennywise are symbiotic.
@@ghfiytdcoliuo8
Again, I haven't seen the movie yet. But I doubt it. Not to the depth that the book did. I've seen too many people puzzling over these elements to believe that it was conveyed properly
These guys don’t listen to their viewers
I totally didn't get that! Good point!
In the book Stanley killed himself because he remembered too fast. He got hit with a ton of PTSD. The rest of the losers club met at the restaurant to regain their memories slowly
It's kinda the samething here too but with a bit more
How did the rest of the group not remember fast
The real reason for toxic comments on the internet is that they keep us safe from invading space spiders.
That’s lowkey comforting😂
I FUCKING KNEW IT!
FatYggdrasil also known as leftist snowflake social justice warriors.
“Pennywise is an equal opportunity killer” LMFAO Joe, omg 🤣🤣🤣🤣
I mean, horror monsters don't give a damn lol. Equal rights equal fights.
I agree with Joe that the ending works on paper and it does make logical and lore sense. He's a space creature who gets stronger by eating fear because he can turn emotions into sustenance, so logically if you aren't afraid of him and belittle him it should hurt him.
But the problem is that they went over the top with it by making him completely useless and turn into a baby. It would make more sense if mocking him / not being afraid made him weaker, but he was still able to fight and use some powers just not his full power. That way you still had room for a good ending and IT is still a threat
I love the part were the leper gets chocked by eddy and then they play a hilarious unfitting song from the 80’s. I could not process that!
That was the one thing that made me very confused. There has to be a deleted scene that was supposed to come after that to make it flow better
Imagine a spin-off movie of Pennywise in a time before the losers club that is straight Savage horror and no happy ending :)
Make it about the Indian tribe that tried and failed
That would be awesome but since the studios are just making IT a carnival of jump scares to cater to an average audience I doubt we will get anything that’s actually “horror”. I don’t consider IT a horror movie at all.
I actually heard they were considering a prequel that would cover that time period
STM - I won’t be expecting it to be scary though. Just more of the same.
@@tamapajamas the It movies dosent have as many jumpscares as modern horror movies is put right next to blumhouse movies and it's at best a thriller but i will give it respect on how they kill people in It with some tension and the creativity when they want a creepy vibe instead of a trail of blood on the floor like someone was on their period
What pissed me off was that they did not show anything about pennywise' past. besides what was in the trailer.
The book is huge and even though they had almost 3 hours they still had to cram.
Travis Whitley I’m sure there unnecessary parts that they could have cut to make room for it .
what happened in past if you don’t mind?
Sounds like prequel fuel
@@noharmdone5661
Haven't seen the movie yet but - Pennywise's recent past is expanded upon several times in the book. Usually his involvement in other events during his periods of wakefulness. Like when he cropped up at a shootout in the.....30's?
Going back further, the children get a vision of his arrival on earth, but I heard that was in the movie.
The opening scene is an iconic scene from the book that’s why it’s there.
dux bellorum that scene fucking sucked so bad
It's not really that it's iconic, but it's a fat chunk of the beginning. The movie barely touched on it other than to use as an opening kill and doesn't do enough with it to give it much value to the movie. In the book it goes to trial and there's reference to Shawshank, the movie barely breaks the surface.
That's not enough to justify it's existence, especially since the rest of the entire movie had a completely different tone. It felt like a scene from the original cut that they kept in because the movie isn't scary.
Do all of yall really think the opening scene served no purpose? Like it's just there for no reason? Did it really go over all of yall's heads? Like Mike monitoring his CB radio, Pennywise's first appearance by the river where they dumped the victim in, and the message that Mike finds from Pennywise at that particular crime scene? Like you really can't figure out why the scene was there? LMAO I mean if you don't like gays then that's one thing, but I mean at least try to watch the movie.
@@adrianpale2342 cry some more.
The most surprising thing was how many times i was able to predict the jump scares
They didn’t kill him with words they killed him because they stopped fearing him leaving him powerless.
Thank You!!! Jeez it's like come on theirs allegory to fear...compared to throwing a rock at it
Pretty sure they used their powers and removing fear from themselves comes in the form of the spoken. So words inflicted damage, and fear gave them a shield. What killed it was them squeezing his heart. Just saying
Jaime Ruiz that’s a better way of putting it instead of how over talking joe put it.
Jaime Ruiz yes this
THIS^^^
Pennywise gave Bill the boat because he knew the Ritual wouldnt work!!
It is fucking with the group. Because yeah, the ritual does not work actually. And Pennywise knew it wouldnt
The ritual DOES work but the two groups interpreted it differently. Those "artifacts" are there to help them overcome their fears. The ritual didn't work because they believed in it instead of themselves. Even the poker became a God killer just because Eddie thought it could kill monsters.
>Alex claims the opening was unnecessary
>It’s literally what kicks off the plot of the book
Exactly. Thank you for knowing that man.
I mean, I do wish more people would actually read; yet what really bothers me far worse than the fact no one seems to ever read these days is the fact that they also are ignorantly scornful toward those which have read the novels... instead of being a tad bit ashamed of the fact they have not....
In all honesty they haven't read any other novels either; because they are not the level of individual which is capable of being that type of intellectually driven erudite.
So since you read the book, did you also hate the ending? Cause I really fucking hated it. Like in the book, it's so fucking brutal how pennywise dies and in this movie they just bully him and he just fucking dies
Juan Oliveras I hate that IT seems to have a certain level of respect for the Losers as it dies, and I hate that Audra has no role.
The movie itself never explains that about the scene though. Anyone without that knowledge beforehand would be understandably left confused as to what the point of the scene was which is a shortcoming of the film.
DarthOliptius Alex has said multiple times that he has read the book though
Best monster was "The Thing" head. Didn't see it coming.
Agreed
Ritchie even said what Palmer said in The Thing “you gotta be fuckin kidding” lol lots of Easter eggs
Yep it was definitely was a reference to john carpenters The Thing
That was such a lazy fucking rip off even down to the exact dialogue of the thing... didn’t like it tbh
Hated it
So... no Space Turtle, but "Indians".
Yup . No Gamera this time
There was a turtle on a table at the library
Ok so I just saw this movie but haven’t read the book yet. Is there seriously a space turtle in the book?
@@ZR38315 yup
@@ZR38315 He created the universe but choked on it and died.
lmao that scene with the gay guys is taken straight out of the book, and it lets mike know that pennywise has returned, as when he does the town turns crueler.
Exactly, it's literally the first event in the book if I'm not mistaken. I frequently see people criticizing scenes which are direct connections to the book and it kind of pisses me off. These guys don't understand because they probably have not read the book and are biased by the old series/movie. I found the gay couple scene awesome, I wasn't expecting it and when I watched it got me into the movie really fast.
BerNa650 same here, I’ve read that scene in the book and I’m glad that I saw it in the movie
It pays great homage to the book. So happy to see that scene. Also seeing king inside the antique shop was great lol
So pennywise’s return makes the town act worse?
@@SavageSenzu exactly, it's part of his dark influence
40 minutes of movie was cut out. Director said the blue ray release will have these 40 min in movie not bonus features. More of bully and pennywise.
Those scenes parts with the bullies are fuckin disturbing as all hell
I actually got bored with the bully.
The movie was already like 45 min too long and there's an EXTRA 40 minutes?
Hopefully it's not more of the solo Losers section that was completely by the numbers. That could've been cut completely from the movie and it would've been better. LOL
@@lukewilliams6083 What do you mean "solo losers section"
The ending when Pennywise was shrinking was the funniest shit ever.
"The ending when Pennywise was shrinking was the funniest shit ever."
Not nearly as funny as Pennywise dancing in the first one. For a moving starring someone named Pennywise the dancing clown, I was sorely disappointed to see that he didn't get lit on the dance floor in the sequel
This movie is Evil Dead levels of campy horror
Would have been hilarious if he said "I'm melting! Ohh what a world"
And they can use humor to harm him in the book
@@ryandouglas3982 That's what I like about. Nice to have some of that back.
The gay-bashing is from the book. It's the reprise of the cycle. Represents the dark undertones of Derry's history because the town is steeped in evil due to the monstrous cosmic entity that lies beneath; IT is from the endless abyss of infinity, an eater of worlds, an 'anti' to the creative, lifegiving forces of the universe.
They went deeper than I thought they would, but not as far as I'd hoped. A brief visual - a cascading pass over/close to the turtle would have sufficed during Mike/Bill flipout; just a little extra to give us an idea of the utter vastness and scale of IT's origin. Maybe a director's cut with some deeper stuff? That would be a wish-list certainty.
i was so mad that there was no mention of the turtle at all
It chapter 2:
8/10 if a comedy movie
5/10 if a horror movie
5/7 if on rice
Kris P now this is a good comment
10/10 as a book movie
I don’t think enough people will fully appreciate this joke
it's more like a Horror-comedy
Thats more than fair
Angry Joe: the scene where the gay character died it was about the fact that Diary was sick. That it makes the people evil. There's always an act of violence that wakes him up from his sleep. That was the violent act that woke him up for his 27 year sleep.
Ssomeone made a good point that its a chicken and the egg. Is the villent act what wakes him or is the violence coming about due to its waking.
Ok, so what people are absolutely missing about the ritual is this. Pennywise WANTED them to perform the ritual. He feeds off fear. He also knew it wouldnt work because it was done to him in the past. So, he wanted them to try and fail. That fear of failure and absolutely no hope left, he believed, would totally break them and season his meat perfectly for his 27 year long wait for revenge.
I get why people have a beef with the whole, Im going to insult you and weaken you to kill you, but it does make sense. We see what words do to the human psyche. They can destroy you and make you want to die. Why cant that be true for it. Also, this is an inter-dimensional being. Our laws of how things work dont always apply. When physical weapons wont kill it, maybe other things need to be applied. Years ago I would have HATED this ending. Im not in love with it, but Im 100% fine with it. As Joe explained, it makes sense using his own method against him. As they say, fight fire with fire.
Okay but the whole ritual was still kinda shit and lazy, a huge portion of the film consisted of formulaic fetch quests where the losers (obviously) split up and essentially experience the same jump scare routines from pennywise (pennywise was still awesome) and in the end pennywise was basically "lol, just as planned noobs!!!"
And pennywise' death was absolutely terrible. I understand your point about words having an impact but c'mon...
Their insults were dogshit and childish, they pathetically roasted a intergalactic cosmic being of pure evil and thats what won the day. In my opinion that was jusy objectively bad.
@@joelewis3865 I agree the insults definitely needes work, but I like the premise. Not everything can be killied with guns, fire, explosion, etc. I like the idea of what we think os unconventional working against something from a different dimension with far different laws and powers, but I agree exection could have been better.
I think that's also the point of the quest it was so long and daunting and it was all for not so it makes it feel even worse because of time wasted.
@@jaredfrahm7679 The idea of turning pennywises own power against him is cool and is deffo a good premise to go for but the execution was very lackluster and cheap.
And the wild goose chase for the ritual just felt like a waste of time to me, i just personally didnt like it but its fairs if anybody else did.
My overall opinion of the film was that its a rollercoaster of missed opportunities. There were scenes that were just mesmerising and intense (pennywise and the little girl) and some that was just plain wasted (Henry Bowers)
he feeds off fear yet the girl he kills he had put at ease before he killed her...nothing stayed consistent in this mess.
@@jamessearing-i1048 That is a point actually. I'll let it slide because I still think its one of the best scenes haha
When they are talking about the Adrian Mellon murder, I think they are a little uninformed. In the book, that part is very important to the overall narrative. It represents the beginning of a brand new cycle. The movie explains it as an "echo" but that is not clear and honestly just a cop-out because they werent able to adequately explain ANY backstory to Pennywise himself. Some mangled explanation for why bad things happen every 27 years can't adequately explain why something that graphic is fully commited to onscreen. Clearly the writers were fans of the book and we're honestly trying to stay true the source material while also dealing with the logistics of creating an, already bloated, major film. They didn't pull it off. The movie as a whole is only okay, but I think their intentions were not exploitative but instead coming from an honest translating of source material, no matter how unsuccessful it was.
I didn't have too much of a problem with the addition of the Mellon scene. I mean, it was in the source material. And to say that it was overly or gratuitously brutal, but then be okay with a scene 40 minutes later where a 4 year old gets her head bitten off, is saying what? There were, however, a couple sidesteps we took that were not necessary. The carnival scene with Bill being one--only that it pissed him off enough to separate from the group--but even that did not matter because they literally caught up with him immediately. It manufactured horror or suspense after a bit of a lull in material, so I would say that was more gratuitous than any scene.
@@josephcook1904 i may not have been entirely clear on my post, but i dont think anything was too gratuitous. I was more trying to speak from that perspective in the conversation just during that example of why the movie did not work thay well.
@@evangonroff596 Sorry. Not your post, but what the reviewers said. Didn't differentiate. My mistake...
I think the point alex is making is that the scene lasts too long, the movie is three hours and ten minutes are devoted to the crime that re-awakens pennywise instead of focusing on other,later stuff. I get what you are saying, just stating what i think he wanted to say
@@Eisenwulf666 Uhm, but the book makes a pretty strong point about how brutal violence can awake pennywise aside from the 'normal' cycle. It makes perfect sense to have the intro scene, I'm not even sure the scene is that confusing.
In the book, the more Pennywise scares you the tastier the human is for him...so Joe is on point. This ancient creature feeds off fear.
The gay couple scene is DIRECTLY from the beginning of the book. It’s how Pennywise is reintroduced to Derry.
It also works as a way to set up Richie's dilemma about coming to terms with his own sexuality. It's no wonder that he'd try to hide it if stuff like this keeps happening in Derry.
you'd think that they would have even watched a brief summary of the book online. I believe ASOIAF did a review of the beginning of the book as a "what causes IT to awaken" segment.
@@tehdipstick iirc, when they were kids, Hokksteder was making sexual passes at Richie in the book.
But my man, that take place in the 80’s. It 2 takes place in 2016
It also establishes that Derry itself is evil because of the clown's influence.
Did anyone else notice that the young ben from the “it miniseries”....was the fat office ceo in the meeting, talking to older ben on the video chat.
Pennywise isn't a creature that can be killed physically, so the ending worked for me. This is why it is hard to do a proper Cthulhu game, because Cthulhu isn't something you fight...it is something whose presence you have to mentally overcome. AngryJoe is right on the plan working on paper, because it worked in the book. In a book you can describe things like: Joe's legs buckled under the intense pressure of the clown's presence, its craving for fear far beyond what Joe had anticipated. Memories flash by, each one resurrects a long-buried fear kept hidden in the mind of the Angry Commander. "Four hours!" A muffled voice calls. "Loot boxes! Suprise Mechanics!" shouted another. Angry Joe feels his anger rising. "Fifa!"
The clown shivers. Something had changed. Joe is still being consumed, but only when Pennywise peers deeper into the mind of his prey does he realize something else had claimed his meal. A Wildfire of angry thoughts seizes the clown by the throat, igniting its skin with the pure intensity of Angry Joe's wrath!
That all sounds cool. But in a movie....your only bet would be to take a note from anime and use crazy graphics to display the mental battle that takes place between two people who are standing still.
I think there should have been a mixture of the insults but still physical attack as well like not being afraid insulting him we can't m enough so that they could fight him but that there is still an actual fight
epiccthulu what the fuck are you going on about😂😂😂😂 absolutely waffling on
But they do physically kill him, they crushed his heart. I am so confused, and I dont get when they crush his heart how that killed his deadlights? the heart and the deadlights were two seperate things. Why doesn't he just make them all crazy with his deadlights, that was his most effective power and he barely uses it man im so confused
It was a rough movie to get through but the scene with Pennywise hitting Ritchie "Bill Hader" with the lights was badass
@godzillarex888 stop gatekeeping. Movie was boring
@godzillarex888 your response was nearly as bad as the movie
@godzillarex888 jesus kid grow up
@godzillarex888 lol
@godzillarex888 jesus man quit it.
Being fans of horror yet they don't even mention the crab head scene being a tribute/homage to the spider scene in the thing.
Or the hi its Johnny
@@dl5394 the quote is "Heeeere's Johnny!"
Dallas Fortner boohoo lmao
Right. Super derivative. They also re used alot of scares from the first movie.
@@dl5394 they do.
Dear Joe, please read your comments. LET ALEX TALK. I cant count how many times you just cut him off and move on to something you want to talk about. Alex even looked at OJ at one point like "is this guy serious?" Let your guests talk
It’s the *angry joe* show
If you guys notice, he gave them the chance to voice out their opinions after Hellboy (2019) review. Looks like his old bad habits are coming back.
@@ZayTech91 So?
Alex is not interesting enough, nor does he have legitimately thoughtful opinions on most things. He is a classic pessimist with undertones of depression.
@@ZayTech91 This excuse is so retarded. So he can be an asshole and just jump in to everyone because it's his show? Why even have them then? Record yourself alone and you can talk all day.
Did anyone else notice how many times they use the word “ loser” like Jesus we get it already
Star Wars called, they want its 'hope' back.
Loser I'm sorry
@@blackice11z Vin Diesel's "family" says hii
MR.MEESEEKS why are u exaggerating lmfao u act like it was said every other word
I did enjoy the Paul bunyon statue monster. It looked scary as shit 😂
I'm pretty sure that mofo is the only thing that actually got me to jump, idk why I wasn't ready for him but jeez!
Scary
the killing of the gays was to show pennywise was back aftre 27 years. come on
Damn you are pretty smart
that was the only part of the movie that felt real-like people are THAT cruel and that's terrifying.
McArnold Richard’sGravyTrain no, it’s not. Especially when it’s not affecting anyone else but the two people who are in love. That’s was to show how hateful people are,
His presence corrupts the people of Derry, Stephen King did not hate gays, when he was writing his book and snorting pounds upon pounds of cocaine. Someone killed a gay man in almost the same way near him in Maine and included it into his book, except there wasnt a killer space clown showing up
God damn it Battler/Tom/Zucc not intentionally
“They cyber bullied him into non-existence.” Hahahaha
This lmao
They did the same thing in the first movie... conquered him by facing their fears and he backed down
They had an orgy in the books...
Exactly I thought that was pretty obvious.
Well they also smushed him with rocks
This is why I thought IT was such a weak villain right in the first chapter.
PR2k9
Unique, you mean.
"Where do you get cocaine in Maine?" isn't the Dr. Seuss book we need. It's the book we deserve.
Portland
Gardiner Augusta Lewiston everywhere lmao
I was hoping to find a dr. Suess rhyme here.
Why does Joe act like he read the book when it's obvious he didn't
I was thinking the same thing, lol
And Joe those lights are his true form. They say it in the film. The spider might be the final form he uses but the lights are actually him.
So no cosmic space turtle carrying the universe on its back? Well, my disappointment is immeasurable.
I was hoping for that too :///
Yeah that’s very disappointing.
A'tuin is displeased
Yeah that isn’t actually how it happened in the book but okay, be disappointed by something that wasn’t even correct 😂
(The turtle barfs up our universe, doesn’t carry it on his back)
I agree with Joe. The ending works. IT feeds off your fear, take it away, IT becomes weak.
if it feeds off your fear then why did he try to befriend gorgie an the little girl under the bleechers... he tried to make them not scared to munipulate them ... he also just kinda killed the guy gay who you could say he never really scared even tho he prob was scared to have beeb beaten an thrown in a river
Danny Concepts probably because it prefers them to be afraid but he needed to eat?
@@DannyConcepts are you six? Can you not write a structured scentence with no spelling mistakes?
Taylor G are you six? you can glady meet me in person and find out homie .. its called small keyboard on an iphone... dont really give a fuck about spelling typos when what i said i easy to understand. fucking waste of oxygen this guy.
@@DannyConcepts oh here's the little kid trying to act tough by sending threats over a comment on UA-cam. What are you trying to accomplish, nobody cares, grow the fuck up
The glowing balls is pennywise real form
We see the deadlights in part 1 as well did they not see part 1?
Pennywise's true form isn't a spider, it's the closest the human mind can perceive. He doesn't feed off their fear but their belief of their fear. This is why children are especially vulnerable.
I wish they had stayed true to the real ritual of Chüd. As a huge fan of the book I was pretty disappointed.
35:23 The look on Alex's face when he realizes there is no more drink to drown his sorrows.
Not sure there even was anything left, but he pretended to drink anyway lol.
Lol "Turns into a baby"... just like Jo when he disagrees with your opinion haha.
My show my opinions!!!
You probably don't have many friends to mess around
Henry was important for Eddie & Richie to build courage they needed for the boss fight
22:06 LMAO INTERRUPTED, look at alex's face afterwards
Then Joe doubles down! Amazing.
Joe really needs to stop doing that. It's extremely annoying
Angry Joe is fucking annoying. He should stick to planned out video game reviews. He is a shit movie reviewer
Nalidus shutup
Nalidus dumbass
Alex the reason why the gay couple getting beat up meant something was bc if you remember, in the first movie pennywise being awakened in derry changes the town. People act crazier and meaner etc. In the first movie all the adults are basically socks and don't care about the kids. So pennywise was near the festival and those guys beat the gay couple bc his affect on the town and on their mental State, and so he could eat the guy
Didn’t they basically exploit Pennywise’s fear? Fear of being nothing. Weakness. NOT being feared. They basically exploited his fear to destroy him.
Alex doesnt like any movie!
Ya I'm not a huge fan of Alex. I miss delrith reviewing movies. Alex wants everything to be perfect which is a bad mind set when reviewing things.
@@lukesilletta9295 I like Alex, he keeps it real, I wouldn't trust his ratings if he were just handing out 9s and 10s to every movie, u gotta remember he is a CRITIC. So he must be critical of the movies and call out flaws.
Alex has no idea what this movie is about
Yeah Alex is just super negative all the time. It just gets irritating.
He's that hipster that hates all things that are universally loved
This movie just sucks man
Pennywise didnt shrink cause of the insults.
his power came from the fear of his victim.
in the moment the heroes going to shrink him with insults there were no source of fear so pennywise lose his power to fight them.
that was shown in both movies. how you could miss that?
It was never stated that "fear gives him his powers" and it wasn't like that in the book either.
Is it just me or does pennywise look like king candy from wreck it Ralph?
Ohh fuck
Why on earth did calling him a clown hurt him? Didn't he pick the clown look?
The lack of fear they had while saying it is what was hurting him
U forgot about the part were Stans head turns into a spider
Some element of almost everything discussed - makes total sense if you've read the book. The metaphysical aspects are explored in depth. I suppose that's the director's challenge to translate these concepts well.
They are reviewing the movie they saw, not the book, i mean they are not fans of the universe as so many viewers and yeah i read the book, but i would like it to see more deep stuff in this movie.
Alex during this whole video: *Face palm*.
I’ll defend you Joe IT’s power of using fear is also its greatest weakness it’s just not very cool.
The opening was necessary, because it was signifying pennywise return.
It's needed because a tragic event is needed to wake him up every 27 years.
@@GhostlyChairSniffer but sadly that wasn't really pointed out in either of the films I think? If you don't know the book, then it's confusing
Do they even understand IT had no choice in the movie? Its nature automatically reduced it no matter how hard he tried to defend himself.
The name calling thing was stupid, but...I’m the first one when Beverly gets captured. Penny wise picks her up trying to scare her, Beverly says “I’m not afraid of you” and he kind of pauses and he notices somethings wrong, he like shakes his head around in discomfort. So good little detail in the first movie.
Just my takeaway, but I feel like the reason Stan directly remembers even though he left Derry is because he was directly consumed/attacked by IT when they were kids. Beverly saw the deadlights so she had some kind of connection but she wasn't actually attacked/consumed by it.
Joe: make sure we stay in line with the movie.
Also Joe a couple mins later: starts talking about a monster in the middle of the movie.
The opening scene has a lot of meaning, Pennywise is fueled and brought back to his form after 27 years by some form of extreme fear of hurt that someone is going through. So the couple in the beginning being beaten was the reason Pennywise was able to come back.
The main issue, and why they didnt get it, is that the film didnt explain it that well
But Stanley knew IT was back when Mike called he even asked "It's back?"
The bashing of Adrian Mellon on the bridge was an important part of the book. It was good to see it in the film, but it wasn't used to effect to explain the dark undercurrents of Derry. The Ritchie gay line was more of a 'woke' position of the film. I originally thought Ritchie did have a male partner when introduced in the book - but flipping back through it today I was wrong. I dont think there is anything in the book that gives a picture of Ritchie's sexuality.
In the book Richie gets a vasectomy--not a popular procedure amongst the gay community, especially 35 years ago...I believe he got it after a pregnancy scare. And the follow up tests proved that his sperm was still perky--yet still no kids...Proof of the no child 'curse'...Technically in the 90 miniseries, he checks out a younger female library tech, to which the clown replies: "A little young for you, isn't she?" So, there is precedence of Richie not being gay...
I’m tired of this woke crap being in movies
They hinted in the books that he had a special relationship with eddie not more.
Porbably were scared that the whole goes over the audiences head
@@BlackangelKatakuri 😑😑😑 you're one of those guys...
And in the book, its implied that Eddie was closeted. So they just flipped it and gave it to Richie.
And guess what dude, there are people who are gay! Its more realistic actually to have a gay person. A closeted gay person at that who doesnt want to admit it.
You "get woke, go broke" people are some of the worst parts of the internet
Well... the "space spider" final form is reffering to what Pennywise is: A space entity. A god.
I took a lot of the penny-wise attacks as him trying to scare them enough to actually be able to harm them. as evidenced at the end of the film he cannot harm them if they don't fear him. I think Beverly is the only attack where penny-wise could have outright killed her. She was terrified.
Bringing Bowers back was because he needed someone that could harm them without the restrictions penny-wise has (the fear thing) but the whole dead kid driving bowers around made no sense to me, if he is able to control things like vehicles, why can't he use them during his attacks?
I also enjoyed the difference in scares toward the Losers as adults, the attack in the restaurant could have been him just trying to scare them off (which he almost did) as ridiculous as it was, it would scare most people away. The other attacks were also not terrifying as adults because we are able to actually fight back. If it was child Beverly locked in that apartment with pennywise it would have been a much more intense scene, but since she is an adult it is much less suspenseful. That old lady monster was still creepy as hell though.
Every move penny-wise made was an attempt to scare them off or split them up, i think that is also why he doesn't attack adults, because they don't have that same level of fear. Just my two cents though.
At the end, i think he was legit trying to kill them as the big spider monster. But as a group they have less fear and thus make it harder for him to kill. Or maybe they were actually dodging his attacks... Eddie was shown to be too scared to act, and even though he saved Richie, he was still scared. That might be why Penny-wise was able to stab the fuck outta him. or maybe because Eddie stopped moving and turned his back. Penny-wise could have rekt Richie too when he was shouting at him "Let's play truth or dare! here's a truth, you're a bitch" so Penny-wise had to use the deadlights on him same as when Beverly stood up to him. He had no way of harming him without fear and Richie very obviously was showing no fear. Also, i think the bullying him to baby form was part of the "if you believe it, it will hurt him" line of thinking. It wasn't the words, it was the belief and courage of all 5 losers standing up to him with the unified willpower (battle of wills, invocation of chudd or w/e.) "you're all grown up" Is a pretty common thing that people (including bullies) say to people coming back to their town. I assumed Stephen King heard that shit a lot from his ex bullies during his HS reunions or some shit. same with the "the ending sucked"
Also, i love the scene where Beverly kisses Bill, you can tell from her body language she isn't fully into it. Her hands are raised and she seems to be leaning back, even though she thinks he is someone she really cares about romantically. When she kisses Ben at the end there is no leaning back and her hands go up, and then wrap around him. They didn't call attention to it and it was so easy to miss but i love that little detail.
Edit: Completely agree with the opening scene. From a filmmaking/storytelling perspective it was completely pointless, It was very brutal too. I think it was added for the sake of LGBT brownie points, similiar to the "Endgame: Female avengers, ASSEMBLE!" scene.
The beginning scene is just directly ripped from the book as pennywise first new kill. I was a major fan request.
@@pennywise5662 Did it happen exactly as it did in the book? I do not know. But from a movie stand-point it was overdone. 10 mins in a 3 hr movie that could have been spent on character development. It also did not highlight Pennywise in a decent way. the bullies performed all the brutality and pennywise was an afterthough. "lets have pennywise pick him out of the water and then bite him, next scene." It was just a waste of time. Personally i liked the portayal of how homophobia is still an fucked up problem in certain parts of the world, but it didn't build the movie in any way
@@Happymouth1 Almost exactly, but the attackers also saw IT. The film just didn't do the trial or police questioning that happens after showing the town compliancy in overlooking its activities of IT and further developing the town itself as a character. The town is as much of a character as the Loses or IT in the novel. There are a lot of book accurate nods that honestly bog down the story they chose to tell in the film. It's the no-win scenario with a book so giant and varied in tone as IT is. Considering it was at least entertaining is pretty impressive, since the second half of the miniseries is boring, and the book turns into an interdimensional mind fuck with a giant spider.
The insults are fine because pennywise only has power if people are afraid of him, in the end, the loser club wasn't afraid of him anymore
Pennywise knew that insults and power of mind were indeed his weaknesses, which is why he instantly uses the dead lights to stop Richie in his tracks as soon as Richie starts talking smack and throwing rocks. He shut that down in a heartbeat.
2017: TIME TO FLOAT
2019: TIME TO SINK!
they dont talk about the 3 doors with the little dog i laughed my ass off when they talked shit to the dog
Love to see Pennywise with the killer clowns from out of space.
He doesn't kill them at will straight away as he feeds off their fear. I can't see why Alex does not understand why he kills the guy after he puts the spear into him, it's obvious.
As for the gay couple murder, thats textually the intro of the book
Nah it’s like the second chapter
Pennywise not being able to handle UA-cam comments was gold. 👍
Nobody here has finished the video yet
you can speed up the video.
That's facts
I defend you Joe. It's like Harry Potter when they use the ridiculous spell.
I agree with Joe to me it makes sense pennywise feeds off fear it makes him stronger and if you don't fear him its shown that he is vulnerable and if expoilted to its max potential be his demise Idk I felt like even though it was a bit corny it works after all this is the story of kids who are just grown up now
I do think the ending works, because you took away his power once you make him realize his power is non existence, if he feeds on fear than someone unafraid would weaken him. You can't kill it physically because it can do whatever it wants , you have to beat it on its level, beyond the physical world
I mean really, you cant kill him with just the physical. Read the book.
You expect these guys to read 1000 pages, FLIP YEAH I WOULD!!!
How Pennyise dies makes sense to me. He feeds off their fear and that makes him stronger. At the end of the first film, we see that if they don't fear him, then they can beat him. And in the second one, they take it one step further and verbally abuse him to the point where he is absolutely powerless because they turned the fear around on him.
I mean, he spent both films scaring and abusing them and then we see them do the same to him in the end.
And I thought the opening was fine, since we know that Pennywise has an effect on the town and turning everyone (except the heroes) into assholes.
And Bev fell in love with the idea that Bill had wrote the poem (and he was the leader of the group and such), only to find out that the one guy she did not expect (Ben) was the one she really connected with (since Ben was there for her every time as well. Bill wasn't).
And the reason the Losers club forgot about what happened in Derry when they were children except for Mike who never left is that IT can control those who are weak willed and make them ignorant of what happens around them, which is why the adults there do not do anything to stop him. And once most of the losers are out of it's range, they start to forget what had happened to them.
Just came back from the movie one of my favorite horror movies of all time
For those who can’t seem to get it.
Visual FX: Digital
Special Effects: Practical
My biggest problem with the ending is that it missed a great opportunity about the power of the mind being used as a form of combat...or at least they missed an opportunity to do it in a way that wasn't laughably ridiculous. They even set it up in the previous movie. Pennywise looses his power when they aren't afraid and, more importantly, Bill is able to shoot Pennywise in the head with the cow gun thing even though it isn't loaded. I can't believe they put that in the film and never reference or use it again. They kind of hint at it with the spear that "kills monsters".....stupid line by the way, I thought this was the adult version, but that is a REAL spear...that actually hurts!! No mental powers there, it's just a sharp object. Also, when I saw Ritche get caught in the deadlights and they show that shot where it looks like the deadlights are projecting the image of Pennywise...I thought they were gonna do something cool and creative. I even thought..."oh shit, that's right!! His true form is just light! Everything else is just mental powers." But that shot comes and goes without anything cool happening and we're left with the stupid "bully him to death" ending. I wish they had tried the bully thing but then he stabs and kills another member of the losers and then they quickly realize that was a dumb idea and they need to think of a different strategy. That's what that idea deserves. Someone in the writer's room had to be saying "this CAN'T be the best ending we can think of...right guys?!?! It is? Ok, shit. I guess we suck all of a sudden"
The hate crime was supposed to be part of the lore of Pennywises influence on the town. It's even longer in the book. I liked it because one of my big criticisms of this movie was the lack of the city as a character that feels so present in the book.
Also of course the gay would be a target because IT uses the hate of people to bring him closer to eat
Some of the stuff you talk about that was weird (such as the gay couple) were just scenes from he book. That's why they were so weird for movie viewers.
I loved the beginning of the movie, with the gay couple. It's straight up from the book!!!
Yea
I love the gay bashing scene too mang!
It's explained that Stanley killed himself because of a sort of virus he got from being exposed to the dead lights. Apparently all of them had the virus growing in them but Stanley was the first to go because he was the weakest. But then they throw that away and say "Nah, he just wanted to cut himself out of the picture to help the group"
The gay guy that came out with pennywise towards ricky was the same guy he played street fighter with 27 years ago that was also the cousin of the "bad guy" (forgot his name, the one that ended in the psych ward)
Steve harvey: what is something you do not want to see?
Random guy: Naked! Grandma!
Steve harvey: NAKED WHAT!??!
-crazy naked grandma from IT starts Running-
Yeah... some things were great but....
Henry Bowers resolution,
The IT final form,
And ESPECIALLY the fact we don;t get that scene with Maturin.
Brought the movie down.... IT really is a solid 6/10.
But damn Alex i swear your the Simon Cowell of the group.
Maturin is way off the narrative of the "realism" in that. Its too expanding for this movie....
@@breakhammer87 No.... no no no I DON'T CARE
I get that "of course it wouldn't get to explain how he literally vomited up the universe."
BUT DAMN IT MUSCHIETTI PROMISED US MATURIN!
I wouldn't have even cared if he was just a flash in that scene where Bill was having that vision with Mike
I WANTED TO SEE HIM!!!
Maybe if they do a prequel like Muschietti was considering then maybe we'll see him then.
Alex wishes he was Simon Cowell but he’s far from it
@@BlackangelKatakuri Well..... he's certainly trying his best.
That moment when you realize Stanley killed himself for nothing.
Not true.
He avoided being stuck in that terrible Stephen King ending. 😉👌
Even though it came off a little corny in theaters, I totally agree with Joe that it makes sense on paper. I think it would’ve been better if they weakened him by talking & showing him that they’re not scared & THEN followed up by more of a physical battle leading to victory. Winning from pure talk comes off a little odd
my favorite part of the film was the kersh apartment scene because it was a (mostly true) portrayal of the scene in the book. (in the book the room turns into a gingerbread house where everything's candy and the tea is shit) overall i enjoyed it a lot but as a fan of stephen king's works and the book i couldn't help but notice things that they changed like stan's letter to the gang at the end, henry's death, and the changing of the ritual of Chud from the Turtle to native american shamans.
On paper joe's theory about defeating pennywise makes sense but the execution wasn't great.
Yeah, and the silver worked in the first part because the kids believed it worked, not because the intergalactic space spider is actually weak to silver.
Read the book brah
This movie was amazing just like the book
Its so annoying when they complain about some Iconic scenes from the book and IN Ignorance claim they were unnecessary.....) One of the Greatest Modern horror stories of all times..Joe and crew "We could write a better story......sure guys..sure...
15:29 best thing O.J has ever said. Laughed Out Loud. Take my like sirs
20:00 the reason for the death at the bridge in the beginning was to show that hate crimes and brutality spike whenever It returns
You didn't mention how the film rips off The Thing by having a "human" head grow spider legs. Bill Hader even quotes Kurt Russel's character, word for word.
And almost immediately after that, he says: "Eddie, are you OK?". Which is part of the lyric to Michael Jackson's Smooth Criminal...