A situation where you should NOT give to your church.
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- Опубліковано 19 сер 2024
- If you want some more info on why I think that 10% is NOT required giving from believers to their local churches then watch THIS video - • 20 Questions with Past...
My website BibleThinker.org
I was once was advised by a church elder to tithe from my grocery budget ( we never had budgets) without my husband knowing. This just didn't settled in my heart so I never followed the advise. However, whenever there was a specific need at church I brought up to my husband's attention and when he asked how much should we give I'd say whatever the Lord tells you. He always gave more than the amount I would've suggested!. Whenever I had my own income I would let him know I was giving back to the Lord on a regular basis and he never had a problem with that. I believe I respected my husband and honored God by not going behind his back and gave a "tithe" based on deception.
Any "elder" who would advise you to deceive your husband to follow an unscriptural doctrine is not worthy of eldership.
That seems like sketch advice from a pastor! Plus should you go hungry for the church? My pastor would be upset if anyone did that.
Yes, correct. Concerning the elder's "suggestion", your giving to God is between you and God ALONE (with respect to your God ordained marriage relationship position). Any church leader that presumes to assert authority over your financial offering amounts is grossly overstepping his boundries, and you should feel free to inform him of that. Bet you a million dollars God doesn't strike you if and when you do.
No leader mediated when Jesus died for you, and none mediate when He walks with you, which will be every day for the rest of your life, and then on into eternity.
Even if anyone says differently. Especially if anyone says differently.
Thank you for sharing this testimony and the very practical way that the Lord walked you through this situation.
Yeah that elder isn't living the message of Christ.
I am 24 years old and basically poor, I work hard to make ends meet, drive an old car, live in a 1 bedroom apartment on my own, and money gets very thin between paychecks. However, I have decided that if I cannot give to my church financially that instead I will give to my church in whatever way I can. For me that happens to be my gifts as a musician. I volunteer my time many Sundays a month playing the piano or the guitar for our worship team so that others can come and enjoy the songs we sing to God. While I am not supporting the church financially I am still contributing to the operations of my church in a meaningful way which is what I feel is the goal of tithing.
get a studio apartment?
This is great. I do pretty much the same thing. I volunteer my time and skills in other ways to help the church when I cannot give financially.
@@PaulSaulAnglowhat?? You can’t be serious.
@@rodterrell304 whats weong with a studio?
I love this comment!!
When I was first taught that the 10% rule was actually NOT required, my jaw just about hit the floor. All of the churches I had been going to up to that point were dying hard on that hill that it had to be 10% and no less... otherwise you're just being selfish.
The freedom to choose to give a set amount as determined by your heart was very liberating. I no longer was giving out of guilt or compulsion, but because I wanted to. It also gives my husband and I the flexibility to pause on giving if some extraneous situation (losing a job, getting sick, etc.) pops up that makes us have to save our money temporarily.
if you give because you are forced against your will it won't benefit anyone , but if you give to your fellow man because you honestly care you will be blessed in abundance
Honestly, considering how taxed people are it's very liberating to find the percentage isn't mandatory. I immediately losr 40% of my income to taxes before it even reaches my pockets. Then I have bills to pay.
That being said, I make room in my budget for $100 to my church (split between domestic works and international works 50/50). Anything more and I'm going to strain myself financially.
It isn't so simple to tithe considering how things are moving in the economy, but thankfully Jesus doesn't save us by works but by grace instead
U should see how guilt inducing I felt even when one coin was off
@@CasshernSinz1613 saves us by Grace yes , but blesses those who helps others
if you want to stay poor your whole life cling to every penny , if you want to be blessed give to the poor and those who do the Lords work
That's right, Christian giving should be guided by 2 Corinthians 9:7. Btw, tithing was never about money, it was agricultural products ( food for the storehouse ) also it wasn't in place of money either ( shekels existed at that time ).
“Tithing” is part of the Mosaic Law that was given TO THE JEWS and it’s total was actually around 20% when you add them all up. New Covenant Christians are to be generous and give from the heart and NOT out of necessity.
“Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.”
2 Corinthians 9:7
That verse is basically about a fundraiser for others. Tithing and giving are two different things.
True but I feel like having a set percentage or dollar amount you tithe helps keep it consistent. I personally have always tried to give 10% or a little more because I feel that God blessed me with that money and I’m giving some back to him and the church. But 10% is not required but it makes it an easy calculation to figure out how much to give.
@@Ironica82 the are three groups mentioned regarding tithing - Abraham, The Levites and the Pharisees. The Pharisee's gave from their gardens, the Levites were the Priestly tribe and Abraham gave once from spoils of war not from his own wealth. Neither establishes doctrine for the NT church to follow. I think what scares people is people twisting scripture especially from Malachi that makes people afraid.
@@lakerfan0243 Tithe literally means 10%.
@@Ironica82 tithing is OLD TESTAMENT LAW given TO THE JEWS who were living UNDER the Old Testament law. It is NOT applicable to Christians under the New Covenant.
However, if you feel compelled to be under that law, better kick it up a notch. Add up all the Tithes that the Jews were required to give and it’s around 20%.
I have in my heart a heavy weight to give to the Lord what is his. And he led me to a neat solution that allowed my non christian wife to understand that I wasn't being ripped off by any church, but it made me no less committed Christ. We just set a budget to help the poor. That doesn't go to any church, but I'm giving to the Lord what is his. We also agreed to go help the poor in person, instead of using any institution as a middle man.
But the key word here is "agreed". We agreed on everything.
Tithe is for salary of ministers not the poor regardless of how nice it sounds 1st Cor 9.14
Mike, I don't think you'll ever see this, but I want to say I hope to shake your hand one day. I appreciate you so much. I know none of us have it all right, and I do my best to read and seek the Lord to confirm what you teach, but I also want to honor and recognize you for your careful thoroughness. You are truly working for the Lord with excellence. You are one of the most well read, thorough, and easy to understand Bible teachers I have ever heard.
Agreed!
I agree. We left a church that Harped on robbing God. Every offering he would say give on gross pay- don’t rob God. That was one of the smaller reasons we left.
I wish years ago my eyes would have been opened to these scam pastors who claim you’re “robbing God.” God is responsible for all good things that I have. I owe everything to Him. So how is giving these mega pastors 10% appeasing the “I don’t wanna rob God” mentality? If God said “give me money and you will get blessings beyond your wildest imagination” I think He would’ve made it clearer. But He says “you cannot serve both God and money.” If we give to get, how am I not serving money over God?
Malachiiiiiii, usually prosperity gospel churches will do that.
Scare you.
Promise you it will come back to you as more money.
That verse in Malachi is so abused lol
who has ever given to God that He should repay? Romans 11
These pastors are so manipulative -- just lovers of money. They want to serve two masters.
This is very well said. Thank you Pastor Mike. I attended a church once that I gave joyfully, until I had a depression for over a month, my pastor called me to ask me where my tithing was (secondary concern for my state of mind)… let’s just say I found another church and I continue to offer with a full and happy heart, I don’t do it for rewards, but whenever I give joyously… great things do happen in my life. All praises be to God 🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽
Anytime you get contacted by leadership about your tithing is your sign to move on. The only way anyone would know your tithing is lacking is if they know how much money you make, and that is something that should be investigated immediately. The ONLY information anyone should have about tithes is the total sum brought in each week, not who did and didn't give. Offering envelopes are utilized to keep track of individual yearly giving totals for your tax exemption purposes ONLY. It's for YOUR benefit, period.
I personally don't use the tax exemption, so I never fill anything out. If I use the envelope, it's just to keep the money secured together for convenient handling purposes. My name never goes on it so no one knows dollar amounts or who it came from. Your tithe and offerings are supposed to be between you and God only, and no one else.
@@RM3MB3R I wholeheartedly agree with you. This was a few years ago before we did bank transfers, and in that particular country, it is tax free. The Lord is so generous to be I could not sit back and not tithe, it’s honestly a joy for me. It was just very heartbreaking to see where my pastors interests where at a time when I actually needed counseling (imagine… that didn’t even cost him a cent). I don’t hold any animosity towards him though… I’m grateful that I had eyes to see and ears to hear… I wouldn’t be in the most amazing church now if that didn’t happen 🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽
@@RM3MB3R Maybe because Pastors live on tithing?
@@JOEJOE9664 do you have to keep bothering your employer to pay you? Would it be normal if you did that? Of course not.
@@RM3MB3R If they don't pay me on time hen yeah I got bills to pay lol but I get the picture. One more question, is therer a versus that tithing became money?
I have a large family and I felt guilty by not giving to the church for children's ministry, building fees, etc. When I gave that little (and it was little compared to what I make), it really dinged us later. God supplied all of our needs but because of rising costs of inflation (especially where I live) that little giving hurt us. I'm glad Mike mentioned it's not a rule but of the heart. That is not an excuse NOT to give but to those who hardly can or absolutely cannot give it is a blessing to them and they don't have to feel guilty about it. This was a good teaching. By the way, I get more out of these small little clips of Mike Winger's than his regular long videos (which are blessing but I don't have time to listen to those and follow sometimes). Keep up the good work, Mike!
The church is obligated to give to you under the worst conditions:
In these days prophets came down from Jerusalem to Antioch. One of them, named Agabus, stood up and prophesied by the Spirit that there would be a great famine throughout all the world, which came to pass in the days of Claudius Caesar. Then every disciple, according to his ability, determined to send relief to the brothers who lived in Judea. Indeed they did, and sent it to the elders by the hands of Barnabas and Saul.
-excerpt Acts 11
That's a good word pastor Mike. Thank you so much for being willing to speak the real truth and not shy away from difficult issues.. I pray that many will be blessed by this video.
Indeed and Amen
I was disfellowshipped from a Word Faith Church in 2006 for not tithing after hitting hard times. Sad but true story! I believe in listening to the voice of the Lord in giving now. Growing up Pentecostal I’ve seen some real clown shows during offerings with manipulation that was off the charts! Those long winded 15-30+ minute offering sermons reminded me of being at a car dealership with the high pressure gimmicks. I fear some preachers that have miracles are so driven by greed & mammon that they slip into the demonic realm for their supernatural power that just ain’t God.
You're better of for not being in the Word Faith anymore.
I ran into this in the 1980's in Ft Worth, Texas at a Kenneth Copeland Meeting. I believe it was Jesse Du Plantis that took one offering and then a second round for Copeland because the huge Convention Center of people had not given enough. I was appalled! Never went back nor gave that direction ...
@@caroletta451 Guess they each had their own Private Jet Fund...
@@ingela_injeela Good point! I never picked up on that but it is probably the truth!
Imagine, when giving in the NT churches was to spread the money around so that those who were dealing with hard times wouldn't lack...
The ungodly irony of it all.
when I was first saved my already-Christian wife was insistent on 10% of gross income. paying close to 40% in income taxes (and not getting any back typically) at the time, that hit REALLY HARD. I also never received clarity on that when I would ask someone at church, so I only gave from net income.
my local church suggests 10% (as a starting point), but does not require it. a year or more after I was saved my business tanked hard, so I spoke with an elder about my financial situation (he also gave financial/budget and debt counseling services) and I was given a pass on giving to the church entirely, due to some circumstances he just couldn't help me with, at least until things improved. he did encourage me to give other things to the church, as I could, such as my time, and in serving others.
This is what is a little detestable about this doctrine. You are left feeling like this second class pathetic Christian who had to beg for permission not to give. A much more accurate way of tithing is to tithe from the fair market value of all your possessions. Most people who are struggling are not going to pay much at all with this form of tithing and, if you believe tithing in the New Testament is Biblical, this is far more Biblical than tithing from income. Some translations of the Bible have taken very irresponsible liberty in placing the word 'income' in places where possessions or prosperity are FAR better translations.
Do NOT let yourself be made to feel like a charity case. That isn't Biblical AT All. I do not like what you had to do. I will speak with them if necessary. They don't have a leg to stand but count on you not to be able to counter their arguments.
Even if they are doing all of this in a very loving way - you are still left feeling like some special exception had to be made for you. I wouldn't want to feel like that...
@@thecatalysm5658 I didn't feel like I was begging or a second class Christian, I went to this elder specifically for help with trying to get a handle on a budget, and giving was obviously a major concern of mine - I wanted to continue to give, but to be honest I was at a point of where I either gave to God or faced jail time over back alimony and child support.
backstory is I came into an obscene amount of money for a few years in my business and it was pretty consistent (and after I was saved I felt that I gave accordingly during that time), but about a year or less after I was saved my business tanked, like 80-90% business drop without warning and virtually overnight. I quickly amassed well over ten thousand in credit debt (up from virtually none) in trying to stay afloat before I could downsize my expenses. I was forced to lay off all my employees (2 within a month, the other 3 over the next few months.) I couldn't even pay my mortgage for like 5 months, but got right with them after refinancing.
here's where the jail time came in: being a self-employed business owner, my ex had convinced the courts that I was somehow hiding money and capable of paying, and so they refused to reduce my payments (then 7k/mo) numerous times over almost 2 years of going over every bill to pay and bank statement both personal AND business with the court. my attorney even quit representing me (another story) and I had to self-represent. not making full payments that whole time, the judge eventually threatened me with jail time if I didn't start paying in full, and I had to start making payments through the court. that's when I felt second-class, but as a citizen and provider to (now) two families. ultimately I did get it reduced, but even now it's 45% of my net income.
so I went to my elder for help not just with giving but for everything, but after a few hours of taking it all in and looking at what I had to work with, all he could do was pray for me and tell me my heart was in the right place by wanting to give, that God knew this and he was also pretty sure God didn't want me in jail over this so I should hold off on giving until the situation changed. a side note, several years later and not one thing has changed, at least not for the better. I know God has this, though. but no, I don't fault the church elders for their ideas on the tithe or anything related.
@@Taterstiltskin I'm truly sorry to hear that nothing has changed for you. However, I am glad that the church never made you feel the way I thought they might have.
Do you see a light at the end of the tunnel?
@@thecatalysm5658 yeah, there's a light at the end of the tunnel - when the Lord takes me home lol. it's fine really, I have peace through Him.
We had this discussion at my church once and we put it like this. There are those who feel called to give it all. Ever cent they have. Bless them. There will be those will will be called to give it all. Their time. Their love. Bless them. If someone feels the call to gave every penny they have immeasurable faith and theres no doubt God will bless them. But thats not the only way to give. Someone who may make very little but gives their heart and soul to those around them and the church. Well. Ill say this. As someone whos in a very difficult situation and company revoked some of my pay. No more money has come in but a friend of mine devoted time and patience to spend with me and it was absolutely priceless. Some times that show of compassion and true Jesus like character is worth more than being penny less. Even broke people can be wicked. Its not about whats given. Its about why its given.
When I had heard that tithing was not commanded I was shook because they make it seem a do or die situation thank you for getting the truth out there
It is commanded, Jesus mentioned in in Matthew 23:23-25. He also said not to neglect other things like justice, mercy, trust...but he never disqualified tithing. He would never go against Torah or the law.
@@enilas7 You are taking Matthew 23 waaayyy out of context. You are missing the point entirely of Matthew 23:23. Tithing was specific to a group of people in a specific time.
@@Thehappybirder with all do respect, it's pretty simple what Jesus said... and please explain to me where he said that?..what he said was very straight forward.
@@enilas7 Jesus' teaching was originally to the Jews, who were under the Law. Gentiles have *never* been required to follow the Law. Tithing was for the Jews, before Jesus fulfilled the requirements of the Law through His death and resurrection.
Tithing is not mandatory for Gentiles. At best it was a stipulated *starting point!*
@@enilas7 You need to keep things in context. At that time Jesus was still living under the Mosaic Law and addressing others who were. There is no New Testament teaching for the body of Christ to Tithe.
I have been struggling with this over the last year since I got divorced. I've been living at a deficit every month, and honestly cannot afford to tithe. In the last 4-6 months I handed my finances over to God, and He has been blessing me outrageously! I have money to cover all my expenses, and to have a little cushion. Now, I feel I should give, and I'm now in prayer for His guidance on where and how much.
Exactly! We actually can't afford NOT to tithe :)
God will stretch our finances, money will "randomly" show up, and our needs will be supernaturally taken care of when we trust God and tithe.
For example, our washing machine broke. The next day our friends gave us $400 as their tithe (They said God put it on their hearts)...we hadn't even told them.
The day after that we went to a thrift store to get a washing machine...you guessed it, they had a decent one for $400.
Stories like that happen all the time. I've heard about people who couldn't make rent and then an anonymous envelop showed up with exactly the right amount of money.
God is able!
That is Absolutely the best response, "In all things Pray".
@@davidm4566 You seem to have totally missed the point of this video, *and* the comment to which you responded.
Tithing is an Old Testament *Jewish* law. It doesn't apply to non Jews, and it never has. It doesn't apply to New Testament believers whether Jew or Gentile.
Giving, is a different matter. We are to give as we can, an amount that *we decide.* 😁👍👍
@@judylloyd7901 All you have to do is try it and see for yourselves. And be careful what you cherry pick from the Old Testament. Jesus did release us from some of it, but not all. Try it and see for yoruself!
@@davidm4566 God will provide our needs even if we don't tithe. Because he has promised to be a father unto us if we. . ."come out from among them" not tithe. Tithing is not 10% of your money. Its an old testament complicated law of supporting the Levitical tribe. And as Jews we are forbidden to obey the law or seek conformity to it including the tithing mandate. As to gentiles they never been given the tithe to follow.
This is exactly what I needed to hear tonight. God gave my family an opportunity to provide a rather large meal for a group of several dozen people before a church event next week. We were excited to provide it but couldn't afford to if we still gave 10% that pay period. My prayer tonight was asking if that service could replace our tithe, I know that's not the basis of this video but God gave me the answer. Thank you.
This is very comforting. I was just abandoned by my husband after being dependent on his income which he had complete control over and never tithed. I had no say, but when I was left to fend for my self and eventually got enough income to help support the church I felt a desire too. However, this didn't last long due to illness and getting through all the divorce fees. I started to feel like I was failing the Lord by not contributing the the ministry. So thank for relieving me of that burden
I agree. I came to understand this almost 18 years ago through studying the scriptures. Many churches today still teach this and many unlearn church members believe this.
When I searched the scriptures, especially in the New Testament, I didn't see where anyone taught people to tithe but only to give...cheerfully. I came to realize that it was not about the amount but about the intent of the heart when you give.
Most churches today teach that we should tithe but they never teach about the year of Jubilee when the tithe were given back to the people...even further, the tithe was of the land and not money.
Absolutely. The tithe was *never* money!
And if you look at the purpose for the tithes, some of it was for the Levites, some to support orphans and widows. And *some tithes* were specifically for a *blowout feast* for everyone! I've never heard *that part* taught in the church today!
@@judylloyd7901 neither have I....EVER!! I've been raised in church all of my almost 50 years of living! Where I come from, they quote Malachi 3:10 as a basis to guilt trip/manipulate parishioners into giving. For quite a while, I believed it..that is until I did an in-depth study and realized that Malachi was more like a rebuke for the Levites. It had little to do with the people. So imagine being a new convert and hearing every Sunday...."shall a man rob God..." It would scare you into tithing.
This is why it's pivotal, crucial and highly important that we STUDY the scriptures for ourselves.
Ok, I need to do more studying and this reminds me why I love the comments section...
They returned tithes at jubilee?...my goodness. I need to do some solid referencing for the Malachi quoters in my life.
Someone also mentioned they had money (silver and gold) at the time, but tithes was mostly animals and crops.
@@lookingatdaisies9901 read Deuteronomy 14: 24-25.... Proof that there was money back then..
This is a difficult area. There is so much room for manipulation and selfishness to come in. When my parents attended a traditional church, they used to put a check in the offering box each Sunday. But then, they decided to switch to giving the same amount in cash (so it wouldn't be directly associated with their name). They said that people in the ministry started looking down on them after that.
These days, my parents and I attend a house church, which doesn't have its own building and doesn't have paid clergy. All the money in our offering box goes either to support those in the church struggling financially, or to overseas missions that are 100% run by local people (no paid foreign missionaries). All giving is in cash. Nobody knows who gives what. Two brothers count the money every week and keep track of our finances so there is accountability.
We need to be careful that by having buildings, A/C, coffee, schedules, classes, clergy, and so on, that we don't accidentally 'make the Lord's house into a house of merchandise'.
Exactly, I completely agree with you. I grew up in House Church, and I'm going to mainstream church with my husband, and I've had talks with him but I have kind of been like how much more money could go to the orphans and widows if there wasn't a building that had to be paid for and pastors that had to be paid for? I think that's kind of the whole reason that God set up the first church is to be house churches. Because when you have a building there are so many expenses that go into that that that's where the money goes into instead of helping the poor.
@@cordeliawade1670 Well, God didn't *set up churches to be house churches.* They had nowhere else to meet. It was an entirely natural and organic way for Christians to meet.
Having said that, I agree that with no overheads there is more money to spare for real needs, and for missions.
Tithing is an Old Testament, Jewish Law. It has never applied to Gentiles, or to the church.
And, tithing was also never money
😁😄👍👍
@@judylloyd7901 Would have to disagree with you. Even when the church could have expanded to larger buildings, they didn't until it was made law by Constantine that churches were forbidden to meet in homes. Also the church in many provinces would have rented large building for worship and chose not to do so. Paul was involved in the rental of a school building for evangelical purposes in the book of Acts, but not for worship. And house churches best meet Paul's counsel in 1 Corinthians 14:26, "When you assemble, each one has a psalm, has a teaching, has a revelation, has a tongue, has an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification." It was meant to be a time where everyone had something to share. In fact, you assembled with the idea of being prepared to share. In today's modern day service in a traditional church, the only true sharing comes before and after service.
@@judylloyd7901 technically a house church is more biblical and actually ends up usually being what God wants.
I am SO glad to hear you say this. We don't have to give. We GET to give to the One who already owns everything and be part of what He is doing.
Growing up I was always told that I was required to tithe 10% of my income before taxes. As an adult, that became very difficult to do, especially while raising a family. I was also taught that if I didn’t, God would take it from me some way or another.
Here are some of the examples they gave of God taking the money from you as a result of you not tithing:
1) an unexpected bill would show up
2) your car would break down
3) you would get sick or injured and have to pay medical bills
I eventually fell away from tithing due to finances and every time something along these lines were to happen, I’ve always felt like God was punishing me and my family. I really do appreciate the clarity you gave in your response here since this is something I still struggle with.
I was also taught that if you decided to start tithing after a long period of time having not, then you would have to give more in order to catch up on all the tithes you missed. We were told that once you finally gave all that you owed to the Lord, that is when any additional giving would be blessed. So until you started getting blessed for your giving, you still owed money to God.
Sounds like you were taught some abusive ideas. I hope you're not still at that church.
Well... I wouldn't call them abusive. For most, it's all they were ever taught, so it's all they know.
God created all that we have, know, and are. What can we possibly give Him, that He has not given us first?
@@DiggitySlice No, I’ve moved about 12 hours away from the church that I grew up in. After years of hearing the same thing over and over, it’s just hard not to have those thoughts linger in the back of my mind when trials arise.
@@FRN2013 well if not abusive than it shows that the leaders only teach what they were taught and not from careful thoughtful Bible exegesis. Sadly these is the state of many church leaders. They follow the teaching of their upbringing or seminary instead of faithful examination of the Scriptures.
It’s a good idea (and convicting) to read what was happening at the very beginning of the Church in Acts 2:42-47. The people didn’t grumble about what percent they had to give. They were so overflowing with love and gratitude for the message of the Gospel that they practiced radical giving…
“All the believers devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching, and to fellowship, and to sharing in meals (including the Lord’s Supper), and to prayer.
A deep sense of awe came over them all, and the apostles performed many miraculous signs and wonders. And *all the believers met together in one place and shared everything they had. They sold their property and possessions and shared the money with those in need.* They worshiped together at the Temple each day, met in homes for the Lord’s Supper, and shared their meals with great joy and generosity all the while praising God and enjoying the goodwill of all the people. And each day the Lord added to their fellowship those who were being saved.”
Not only tithing is not taught in the N.T. and thus not required of christians, but I'm convinced no pastor should teach about any type of percentage, because it's a trap that puts christians and whole congregations in a bondage, it plays with their conscience and can lead to deep feelings of guilt, and that is definitely not from Christ. Giving is between God and the believer who is commanded to give with joy. In fact we belong to the Lord, our life in not our own and we are to give 100% of ourselves to Jesus-Christ, that includes what He gave us, but we are also commanded to be filled with the Spirit so He can guide us in all things, what to do and what to give.
I'd say tithing is a good rule of thumb but nothing more than that
I agree wholeheartedly and I'm a pastor.
I happen to believe that pastors are NOT entitled to a salary from the church at all, see Acts 20:33-35. For a pastor, it is more blessed to give financially to the church in order to support the weak than it is to receive.
Thank you and God bless
Systematic tithing was bondage to us. When we biblically looked at what giving really is we both felt a yoke come off our necks. Honestly giving isn’t always monetary but our time and resources as well
The yolk on our necks is our slavery to sinful nature.
@@enilas7 absolutely but we can also put on a yoke of the law (acts 15:10) which systematic tithing according to the Torah would be.
@@sonrisefamilyfarm8572 if you read it in context, that statement was no the rejection of the law but rather those around him putting burdens on the pagan gentiles that were coming into the faith...because then, it would contradict Paul when he said " for sin. Seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me; and through the commandment, sin killed me. So the Torah is holy; that us the commandment is holy, just, and good". Jesus would never go against the law and Torah, he was Torah with flesh.
@@enilas7 he was the logos
The word in the flesh. That is a lot more than the law. Probably should watch mike wingers series on Hebrew roots while you are over here 😁 shalom!
@@sonrisefamilyfarm8572 oh don't worry. I'm not hebrew roots. But I'm just stating that he was the words and The law was from God. That's why at the time everyone referred to Jesus as the "walking Torah" because they knew he was the full Torah of God prophecied in the OT.
That is the most honest, biblical, practical mini-sermons on giving I've ever heard. One church we went to went as far as to say if you're in need take from the offering plate. I don't know if that was correct/wise but it really impacted my husband who was somewhat "unchurched". We started going there. Our giving should come out of our abundance that God has blessed us with, but at times it could be "sacrificial" giving. God will bless and provide and give increase. The more you give and have an attitude of giving, He will provide, that's the only way to learn that.
I’ve been saying these same things about tithing for decades. It’s affirming but unfortunately rare to hear another Christian correctly address this topic. Tithing was an old covenant practice, done differently than modern day “tithing “, and all under a completely different context. Under the new covenant we should give cheerfully and what we purpose in our hearts.
I used to be part of a Calvary Chapel in Northern California where they don't pass the plate to take the offering and have a box on the side of the hall way where people can just drop their offering because they say they don't want to obligate people to give. Yet every Sunday morning before the start of the service they would spend 5 minutes talking about how they don't want to obligate people to give. It's like listening to someone talk about how humble they are every week. I was giving but because my elderly parents were living with me and I had to shoulder the rent for the three of us, I wasn't giving much. A wealthy elder of the church who lives in a high end area of Silicon Valley and shares 5 bedroom home with just his wife gave me a hint that if I move to a bad area where I can rent a studio with my parents instead of a 2 bedroom apartment in a good area where we we living, I could give more to the church. I was tempted to tell him off like telling him to sell his 5 bedroom home in expensive Silicon Valley and move to a 2 bedroom home in bad area. I decided to just ignore him but he would do it again in another way. I guess us brown people deserve only to live in a bad area where we can get shot while the white wealthy people have every right to live in a safe and wealthy neighborhood.
It’s not always a race thing. Sometimes it’s just a stupid/bad person thing. That guy sounds like a bad guy. Plain and simple. If he’s also racist, then that guarantees he’s a bad guy. Nobody owes anyone an explanation or accounting of their giving except to God. We serve an audience of One.
If you are going to follow the old covenant law, follow all the law or live in grace. I love how people pick and choose what law they want to follow. Pray about what the Lord wants you to give. When we barely had money to live, we cleaned the church for three years. This was our way of giving. It translated to real money because it was money our church did not have to spend.
I’ve just got my husband to agree to tithing, to the church. We are blessed by our church family and leadership, and we want to bless the leadership and the ministries and the church family there too.
that's perfectly OK and giving freely and cheerfully is encouraged but the problem is a lot of churches guilt their members into tithing. Pastor Robert Morris of Gateway church even has a sermon on tithing that he gets invited by other churches to give that twists scripture to guilt&scare people into tithing. he claims people will be cursed and opening themselves to demons if they don't tithe. I think that mentality is what they're addressing.
@@deeayeveeeyees What sermon are you talking about?
The 10% tithe that churches nearly enforce feels like a fee in a membership. My pastor goes as far to tell our small church that your going to hell for not tithing because your robbing God. 😮 In Malachi, its actually God talking to the priest about how they are robbing God of the best offerings. Pastors have turned food offerings to $$$$
Your pastor has not understood the true gospel.
Read Galatians, compare tithing with OT circumcision. Same principles apply.
My wife and I made a promise to God that we would tithe no matter the situation. There have been ups and downs for example my wife's body thought our third child was alien to her and her immune system went after her and the baby. We didn't think our son would survive cranial complications from the birthing canal. Much prayer and keeping our promises God pulled us through. Our son plays football on the senior team and our daughter is on the middle school track team. Those were faith shaking things to have to go through, but God was faithful. When things got tough financially and it didn't look like we were going to make it seemed there was always enough to pay our way through life with some left over. We still don't know where that money came from, but we really do. I suggest you keep what He gives you to keep and give back what He asks you to. Everything's going to be alright.
Completely agree.
So far this is the only area I disagree with Mike on
@Prey R In that case, she just isn’t saved. 😅
Your experience is not everyone’s. Some of us are going through lessons about trusting God no matter how bad things get financially or health-wise.
My family aims for 10% … a portion of that to church, some to local charities, some to church members in need, and some to people on the street.
To paraphrase cs Lewis: As Christians, if we aren’t forced to live below our means by or giving, then we’re not giving enough!
My wife and I tithe because we are blessed to do so. Our church also has no paid staff of any kind. Nor do we pass a collection plate.
This set me free. Just now. I KNOW I don’t have to tithe, but mike saying it so clearly, I just felt God was saying to me that He loved me whether I tithed or not. I give back by taking the girls in my church out to lunch, by serving the homeless with my time and sometimes money, by buying food for the young adults group my boyfriend and I lead, and by occasional donations to organizations that help me with my faith. But I just felt I was a bad Christian for not giving that 10% even though I could be spending more than 10% a given month on the outreach that I do.
Satan has deceived you about tithing...Mike is WRONG, read 1st Cor.9.14....how do pastors pay the bills...read 2nd Thess. 2.10-12...you wanted a lie and the devil gave it to you...
Before my husband was saved last year I struggled with this a lot and I was told by someone that God calls me to submit to my husband before He calls me to submit my finances and He also sees my heart and knows I would give it it didn’t mean hurting my marriage. Praise God that my husband was saved so this is no longer something we struggle with. There is hope for you all of your spouse is not a believer YET! My husband was an atheist until one day he wasn’t because Gods timing is everything
It's a party in heaven for every sinner that repents. Thanks for sharing and have a wonderful Sunday!
God bless you abundantly! Thank you Pastor Mike. We really can't give 10% of my husband's paycheck, we have debt to pay, food and school and gas and electricity... I budget every month, and this month I had to cut the 10% tithing because we needed that money for food. Not even Christmas presents. That I made by hand, super cheap but beautiful. Cause we just didn't have money for gifts. We feel that, when we have money to give, we will give with a joyful heart. Nothing makes me more happy than to put $10 into the collection plate on a Sunday morning, when I have that $10 to give.
The Pastor at new church said that we are not required to give 10%. I had never heard this before. My prior church did teach on tithing. Thanks for answering this because my husband is against it and this takes pressure off of me. He is a cheerful giver but no tithing.
Same with my husband! So I just give to the offering when I feel like I should, but we mostly focus on donating to charities or specific individuals we come across
Hallelujah! 👍👍👍😁😁
Question, if tithing isn't a requirement then how the churches stays open?
The poor woman gave 100%
God also says to be a cheerful giver.
The point isn't the monetary value, God doesn't need our "money" to provide to us what He wills to provide for us.
tithing is a practical way of serving one another, but its more about reverence to God and obedience and one's true heart attitude.
Sometimes it isnt money you have to give, but service, or even just fellowship to others.
Sometimes you are the giver, blessed with ability to give...
Sometimes you are the recipient, in need of provision.
🙏
God doesn't need our money, but an operating church does, and like it or not an operating church is valuable to many people.
@@DiggitySlice Then give out of love, but don’t pay out of compulsion.
@@DiggitySlice
The church i'm at for 25 years, does not ask the congregation for tithes or fundraisers.
Often our people don't know where to offer an offering until they ask where they can give.
Only recently during the pandemic, and the need to meet virtually online for periods of time, has the website included a "how to give" option.
Otherwise, the only time pastor mentions financial contributions is when the end of tax year approaches, he reminds us that for our tax deductions that that deadline is near.
Yet the church has been able to do much work in other countries all over the world, and after many patient years using a highschool gym as a sanctuary, enough was miraculously provided to build a permanent building.
But it is by God's will the church's finances are covered, one day at a time.
God is good. 🙏
@@martin9410 That’s a very Progressive eisegesis. Here’s why.
Mark is a compilation of Peter’s anecdotes. Luke is chronological. Mark is not. So connecting the widow’s gift to the criticism of the scribes is suspect.
A reading of the plain language of the section about the widow says nothing about scribes taking; it speaks plainly about her voluntary giving.
You assumed that the widow’s gift made her dependent on others. That’s a socialist assumption based on the idea that wealth is divided, never created. The widow could sell crafts, exchange labor for pay, or exchange self-dependence by depending on family.
The Jews thought the rich were great because they gave a lot. An exegesis of the text leads to a comparison of the gifts as proportions of possessions, and it does, indeed, make out her gift to be greater.
This supports the preceding text only indirectly by refuting the idea that wealth makes the rich (not just the scribes) special.
If you got that interpretation from your pastor, run. A whole boatload of bad doctrine comes from where he got that interpretation. Keep listening to this channel to learn more about HOW to interpret the scriptures.
@@martin9410 Contradiction is not a valid hermeneutic. Arguing from authority is a logical fallacy. Having been an elder and having worshipped at a hermeneutically lightweight denomination wouldn’t establish authority, anyway. All the arguments establish is pride.
Great opening thoughts. So I just did this study today after Church, as I've never tithed but have always given to those around us as God has led (including the church). He has always provided for us and we have never been in debt even though I am the sole breadwinner, married and we have 5 children. This is the amazing Truth I learned about tithing. (Completely backwards to what I was taught but it leads to a LOT of freedom and generosity and more love for Christ!)
Tithes in the Old Testament were specifically given to the priests as their inheritance.
20 The Lord said to Aaron, “You will have no inheritance in their land, nor will you have any share among them; I am your share and your inheritance among the Israelites.21 “I give to the Levites all the tithes in Israel as their inheritance in return for the work they do while serving at the tent of meeting. Numbers 18
So the Levites (the sons of Levi) specifically received 10% for their own personal needs and then they gave 10% to the Aaronic lineage of the Levites who were priests.
26 “Speak to the Levites and say to them: ‘When you receive from the Israelites the tithe I give you as your inheritance, you must present a tenth of that tithe as the Lord’s offering. 27 Your offering will be reckoned to you as grain from the threshing floor or juice from the winepress. 28 In this way you also will present an offering to the Lord from all the tithes you receive from the Israelites. From these tithes you must give the Lord’s portion to Aaron the priest. 29 You must present as the Lord’s portion the best and holiest part of everything given to you.’ Numbers 18
They had to present these offerings and tithes at the place God chose for His Name to dwell.
8 You are not to do as we do here today, everyone doing as they see fit, 9 since you have not yet reached the resting place and the inheritance the Lord your God is giving you. 10 But you will cross the Jordan and settle in the land the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, and he will give you rest from all your enemies around you so that you will live in safety. 11 Then to the place the Lord your God will choose as a dwelling for his Name-there you are to bring everything I command you: your burnt offerings and sacrifices, your tithes and special gifts, and all the choice possessions you have vowed to the Lord.
What Jesus says about the dwelling place of His Name now:
16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy. For the temple of God is holy, and ye are that temple. 1 Cor. 3
6 Now when these things were thus ordained, the priests went always into the first tabernacle, accomplishing the service to God.7 But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself and for the errors of the people,8 the Holy Ghost by this signifying that the way into the Holiest of All was not yet made manifest so long as the first tabernacle was yet standing.9 It was a figure for the time then present in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, which could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience,10 since it concerned only meats and drinks and divers washings and carnal ordinances imposed on them until the time of reformation.11 But Christ, having come a High Priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands (that is to say, not of this building), 12 neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by His own blood, He entered in once into the Holy Place, having obtained eternal redemption for us. Hebrews
9 And they sang a new song, saying, “Thou art worthy to take the book and to open the seals thereof; for Thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by Thy blood, from every kindred and tongue, and people and nation,10 and hast made us unto our God kings and priests; and we shall reign on the earth.”11 And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the living beings and the elders; and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands,12 saying with a loud voice, “Worthy is the Lamb that was slain, to receive power and riches and wisdom and strength, and honor and glory and blessing!”
So the purpose of the tithe was to provide for the levites. God was their inheritance and it was His way to provide for them. Now, Who is our inheritance and to whom are we the inheritance?
11 In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, 12 so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. Ephesians 1
17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, Ephesians 1
Here's the beauty. He is our inheritance. The tithe that Abraham gave to Melchizedek is our inheritance. He is saying that He will provide for us in Christ. There is no longer a law to provide the priests with a tithe because we are the priests! He is the Priest! He is saying that the law of tithing was in place as a shadow of the good things we have in Christ! Though it's not that we had to pay 10% before, but now we need to give God everything (as I thought before). It's saying that we had to pay 10% before, but now we receive everything FROM Him! He is our Inheritance. He will provide. There's absolute freedom with your money in Him! You no longer have an obligation to do anything with it! It's all your money. It's your tithe that He is giving you because you are in Him and He is in you. He gave you the money to provide for you because you are His beloved. He doesn't need anything. He gives to His children, not the other way around.
So now, any giving you do is with zero strings attached. You want to give it all because of Him? Awesome! You want to keep it? Great! But let each person be at rest in their actions.
Then Peter said, “Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? 4 Didn’t it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn’t the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied just to man but to God.” Acts 5
You can give everything away, or nothing and He'll provide for you. It is a much better way to live. Zero debt except to love one another. Don't buy a house, don't buy a car, until He provides it with no strings attached. Save your money until He says where to put it. Minister with an open hand knowing that He is your Inheritance. This type of faith walk is not being lived out by many, but it puts God in the driver's seat and your money where your heart is/should be: His Kingdom.
I remember in Catholic Grammar school, being made to stand up in class because my family wasn't filling the envelopes every week. How humiliating (I'm 71 and still remember it)! I believe in giving to the people who need help first, then a ministry if I believe in it. I don't currently follow any ministry completely (Catholic or Christian), so the poor will get my money. Thank you for this video.
Mike if prosperity word of faith preachers heard you saying this about tithes you would be accused of being cursed!
I agree with you!
I remember having an elder stand up in our church and say he would be willing to say if you didn’t tithe you may not be a Christian. Still stunned by that proclamation from a very wealthy neurologist who was also an elder in our church.
Pastor Robert Morris of Gateway church in Dallas gets invited to other megachurches to give his signature sermon on tithing that scares and guilts people into tithing. he twists scripture and makes all kinds of weird claims that people are opening themselves up to demons and curses by not tithing. this mentality is,unfortunately, very common since it brings in money for the churches and the preachers
@@deeayeveeeyees What sermon is that?
@DrGero15 the poster just explained the sermon.
I base my tithes on inner conviction, sometimes I feel moved to give. Maybe to a panhandler, maybe to person in front of me at the grocery store, maybe at a church. When I feel moved to give, there will be no peace in my heart until I do. I want to be a good shepherd, the church I attend has a table in the back, a plate, envelopes and a pen. I have been to churches where they would pass a collection plate 3 or 4 times during the service. Tithes, then for a "love offering" then for maintenance and then for anything else you might want to give for. Thank you for a good video and as always I enjoy your perspective.
With every video, you gain more of my respect. Thanks for this explanation!
We received a money marriage book as a wedding gift. Turns out, to tithe or not to tithe became our first serious argument. Only I didn’t realize we were arguing, I was trying to persuade him since I was raised in Christian home and had always tithed 10%. He was raised Catholic, a newer believer and wanted to pay off his college loans. I was afraid his unwillingness would rob us of God’s blessings. I was young and naive, and got to experience the joy of getting the silent treatment for a day. Thankfully, we made up. But we’ve always had different views on the subject. It can still bother me today. And I still have to work on letting it go. Excellent video to help me do that, Thanks Mike!
The senior pastor of the "church" I just escaped from would tell sick people "dont expect God to heal you unless your tithing"
That's just one of many stories
Did he wear glasses? :)
Tithing is the only old Testament law some pastors preach 😅
Yeah, the ones who want your money!
Thanks for shedding light on this issue Pastor Mike. I personally believe that churches around the country would become so financially blessed if Pastors would stop preaching to PAY your tithes. I believe it stifles out people’s generosity. They can’t cheerfully give, because 10% is required by my local church or else something bad is going to happen to me.
I believe the tithing model in the Old Testament is wise. I believe it is a healthy amount to give, and it’s what my wife and I have determined in our hearts to give. BUT, it doesn’t have to go to the church I attend. If I give to a charity, or buy someone’s gas, or pay for someone’s meal, it comes out of that 10%. Ever since we determined to apply 10% this way, our giving is very cheerful. There’s so much joy in helping others, but you are being kept from that joy if you have a “bill” that you have to pay for attending church. Whenever we don’t give to anyone during a given week, the whole 10% goes into the offering plate. And if we don’t spend the full 10% that week, the rest of the 10%(and maybe more) goes in.
If Pastors would show a sign of trust in God, rather than banking on 10% to support the church, I believe that church would grow and be very prosperous. Because when people realize that they joyfully give without compulsion, they help more individuals. And they discover great joy in doing so. So become more and more generous. And when a whole congregation is becoming more and more generous, naturally, they will give more to the good works of the church. And they’ll be blessing so many more people as well. So my opinion is, everyone should stop “PAYING” tithes. The boogeyman’s not going to get you. Determine how much you will give, and how you’ll give it. 10% is a fine, healthy number to go with, if that’s what you chose. But you’re giving should be cheerful, not compulsive.
I’ve tithed every check I’ve earned. I’ve always done fine with 90%. Giving is the primary way I can support my church.
You give 90% of your paycheck to your church ??
@@roberttrevino62800 no lol. I meant I’ve done fine with the remaining 90% of my earnings 😆
@@BulykrynVancho ohhh. I was about to say dang lol
It was said that J.C. Penny tithed 90% of his income. Look what he built.
@@davidelks8972 well yeah, once he got rich he did. His %10 living wage was still high end compared to others
I personally give 10% of gross and it’s completely joyful and compulsion-free.
Don’t give more than you’ve decided in your heart to give, as God (through Paul) tells us.
love your boldness on tithing- I've never heard a pastor with your take- you're dead on!
Good that his answer was Scripturally-based. Would just like to add that everyone who goes to a church regularly has something to offer to the church; it doesn't need to be money. God has given everyone gifts to bless others and support the church, His bride.
I teach that there is an expectation with what Jesus said in Matt. 23:23 that speak volumes to me.
I tithe because of His expectation. I teach it to be obedience that God is pleased with.
This is the most balanced view I've ever heard about this subject! I remember in a previous church, the pastor saying from the pulpit "Even if your husband disagrees with tithing, it is your duty to God and He will honour you for it!" I remember feeling a check in my heart because I knew a few women who's husbands were not Christians and I knew how torn they felt about it.
Thank you for providing clarity in this subject!! Really appreciate it 🙏
My former pastor would always sound like he was lecturing when he spoke about tithing. I had heard it almost every Sunday so he sounded like he was just repeating his words. There were a lot of students who attended his church that received their income once a month to cover their monthly expenses. I was part of that group. I never had enough money every month so my parents helped me when they could. I was also feeding a child so I spent more on food than my friends without kids. The pastor seemed to know when we had our money, but I also knew they were trying to sell the building to get a bigger building. They’ve bid on other buildings but never worked out. I think it’s been nearly ten years now. His “vision” was his own. That’s why I think it never worked out for him. He was always on about the mortgage payments too. I always felt condemned for not being able to tithe. I did what I could for the offerings but it was always like coins or like $5. And this is a pastor who was so obvious he had a favourite group of ppl. I saw him one time at a sports event. I was shocked after hearing him that ppl favour them over church on Sundays. He didn’t say a word to me. I began seeing him as a hypocrite.
This got me thinking, thank you Mike. While I agree with the reasoning you gave for this wife situation, as when I was dabbling into Christianity I tried to go to church a few years ago and the sermon was about tithing which my heart was completely harden against. I didn't attend the church again for 2 or more years.
However now I am saved and with the Lord, although I agree it shouldn't be a duty to give and we are called to be a cheerful giver. I do see it as a way of showing your trust in God, as he is the provider.
I'm thankful to the Lord that my wife and I are in good jobs in which we can afford to give 10% of our income for the Lord. HOWEVER, we do not give it solely to our church. At times we give the whole tithe to our church, at times we give it to a missionary couple we know in Cambodia, at times we split the amount up and give it to different ministries we know need funds to spread the Gospel. The way how we see it, is that it is all invested back into the Kingdom of Heaven.
Good advice for this scenario👍🏼. Perhaps do a review of Robert Morris' sermon where he claims you are stealing from God and welcoming demons if you don't tithe. I think that can be helpful to many.
Oh man, yes, I just recently heard some more clips of him in "Beware of Robert Morris" I think it was called and was angrier than ever. Thank God for the biblical teachings we have access to through Mike and others!!
First thing we agree on, Mike. Very biblical and in tune with the voice of the Holy Spirit.
There's been a bit of a change since Malachi.
In the old days, sacrificing for the church and for a person's relationship with God was almost like a lease agreement that needed to be serviced.
But now, after Christ's death and resurrection, I am completely owned ... I am bought with a price! I figure that means that every penny of my income and everything I own belongs to God; not just 10%. If I take my family to McDonald's, I do it with God's money. If we go to an amusement park or I pay the cable bill, it's God's money. I want to support my church however I can, but the tenth is no longer meaningful.
I love your perspective on this by declaring it God's money when you recieve it! What do you think of the passages of Matthew 23:23 and Luke 11:42?
Yeah, that's what I told someone who asked me what I thought about tithing years ago.
The main problem as I see it, is that once people have given a tenth, they then think of the rest of their money as belonging to themselves.
I learnt the hard way that communication is really important in marriage, especially when it comes to tithing. I got paid, mortgage went out, paid tithe, didn't tell my wife. My wife then paid tithe again. :) 80% of my income for that month was gone. Felt like a long month before the next pay day. :)
Communication!? You have no system for who does what?
Thank you for this biblical approach
Thank you so much Pastor Mike for this, the church I attend now had a very serious, loud preaching about this a couple months ago. But our church does preach on the 10% tithing like every 6 months i would say or every yr anyway things in the service were very tense. There were things said like, you go buy a $100 jacket but you can’t tithe? Get it together give ur 10% bla bla and the whole sermon just felt so wrong. I still go but don’t tithe because my pastors did tell me to respect my husband if he does not want to give. so I don’t but the fact that the 10% is still preached and believed here at my church, and to just find out that it is not suppose to be that way. I got alot to think about and pray about
Malachi Chapter 3 already there but in New Testament says to give cheerfully. It was stated in Malachi that if you don't do the tithings, you are stealing to the Lord. It was hard to do that but you have a free will. Malachi stated that if you do this I will bless you or the doors of heaven will open and pour out the blessings.
AMEN! My mom and Dad taught me right even though all the churches we went to believed that tithing was a RULE. I'm so thankful for my parents. If it wasn't for them, I probably would have thought tithing was biblically required to be a good Christian.
As a young single woman, I have the budget to give 11 percent.
Give as God has prospered you. THAT'S the spiritual principle I follow instead.
The 10% ‘rule’ being taught over & over is shocking. If we were to truly tithe like the OT, it would be much higher then 10%.
So appreciate this teaching! Thank you.
true so true
How so? Abraham gave a 10th , Abraham isn't a Jew or Israelites, and he was counted righteous by faith before he was circumcised.
@@randokun6430 We are Church Age Believers and not under the law, but grace. If you study what the Israelites had to ‘tithe’, I think you’d find it an interesting study.
@@randokun6430 Abraham gave in the single time it is recorded ten percent of the spoils of war to Melchizedek. The spoils of war were actually stolen from his nephew, not even from his own wealth.
@@randokun6430 10th of all he owned. 10th of his grain, his flocks, his gold, his donkeys, etc. That doesn't look like 10% of your money, that's worth more actually.
Thanks Mike! 2 things, the Elon Musk example is a great one, two I like what you said about drinking the coffee and using the building, I feel like I should help out to support the church, I haven’t for a while but this video makes me want to start giving again. Thanks! I had a pastor wrongly try to strong-arm me telling me tithing is commanded and it REALLY turned me off to it.
Elon Musk was a terrible example. Who could afford to give 10% better than him?!
Also, he is not a Christian so is not expected to give anything.
@@davidm4566 it’s a perfect example to show how 10% is not a magic number. Pastors may have greedy love of money fantasies of having Elon Musk join their church but like Mike said if he gave 10% and it happened to be $23,000,000,000 to a church of 30 people, that is severely dumb. Elon would be an absolute fool to put that much money into a church all at once. It would trigger innumerable problems. Maybe start with a $100,000 and then see how they handle it etc. then go up from there if the church is growing and needs to expand etc., writing a check for $23B is definitely not a New Testament command but pastors really stretch the Bible to pull on wallets out of lack of trust in God and fear.
Well, you could find out what kind of tea and coffee they use, and donate some. You could also donate cookies, and cakes, dishwashing liquid, and other things they use. Buying items in with your groceries makes it easy.
Our church also has a store of food for emergencies for people in the community who are in need, so that is another area where we can donate. 😁😁
Tithing is never commanded by Jesus. It's not the standard for New Testament believers, and has never been commanded by God for the Gentiles. Jesus wouldn't have told the hypocritical Pharisees *not* to tithe, because at that point it *was required* of *them* by the Mosaic law.
Your pastor is revealing his biblical ignorance if he is teaching that tithing is commanded!
I was once in a situation attending a thriving church that literally did almost nothing with their money. No community assistance. Nothing. They were mostly older people who just wanted weekly services. So I started shorting them and gave the money directly to charities I felt the church should have been supporting, but weren't.
I used to support missions with my $$ tithes, when I tithed, because to me, they were bringing the "bread" of Life to the hungry! And that's what the Old Testament tithe was about - supporting the Levites and feeding the poor. The tithe was never money anyway.
Im at a large church thats had its ups and downs and spent alot on new stuff and renovations and activity courts, a grilling area, ect. It had me questioning it. Until. I saw the overwhelming amount of community it brought it. Theres a ton of new faces and programs reaching people around us ans far beyond. My church took in alot of money and actually put it forth for the outreach of Gods kingdome and its beautiful
@@judylloyd7901 Question, how did tithing converted to money?
PS Jesus did mention the poor woman who gave her last coin. That was WAY more than 10%, so we can't say that the New Testament is not about giving and that it's OK not to give.
I just want to make it clear because for some reason people come away from these videos twisting it: organized churches and giving 10% are not specifically required, but are still good. I say this because a lot of people throw the baby out with the bathwater. It's true that church can be a gathering anywhere, but everyone contributing into some kind of building that has an organized structure is not a bad thing, and very helpful for some people. And true your giving in terms of the NT doesn't have to be monetarily to the church, and certainly doesn't have to be 10%, but if the only way you have to help keep the aforementioned building running is to give monetarily then it's a valuable undertaking, and if you want to give 10% just to force yourself to be consistent in your giving, then that can also be helpful.
(This is all assuming of course and not an abusive church. That should be obvious, but I have to clarify again for people who jump to conclusions. There are bad churches and good churches, it seems more people need to be reminded there are good ones nowadays. Keep the good ones running.)
I love my Pastor because he says he will never preach on tithing. It’s between us and God what we give.
During a sermon the pastor at the church I was attending said that if we are not tithing, we are "a part time follower of Christ" because we aren't giving our finances. This did not sit well with me. Especially considering it was a church that I was volunteering an abundant amount of my time at weekly in many areas of ministry.
I have been looking for another church recently, for other reasons in addition to this, but thank you for this clarification of something I felt was not quite right! I had been feeling guilty about it!
Thank you for teaching the truth on tithing.
Yes, make sure you are giving money to pay for the A/C, child care, lawn maintenance, new roof, hot licks band, 43 youth ministers, electric laser show, etc., etc. Just as was done in the early church. Or as Paul said in 1 Profits 3:18 "Build a super expensive place and then hire some fancy people. Make sure to include rad entertainment and a coffee bar."
Yeah I'm honestly disappointed in my church lately for this reason. It makes me really uncomfortable how much is being raised to spend on such superficial things. My heart cannot give cheerfully to that. Yes the beautification will attract more into the door, but what are we doing for the homeless and the community directly? How many missionaries do we support? That's why I give a small offering to the church and reserve some to directly give those struggling, begging for money on the streets, and to other great causes. I am for supporting the building's lease, the utilities, the head pastor's income and other key deacons/servants whose job extends to a significant amount of hours per day. I am for adding more seats/benches to the hall to account for recent growth. I don't think updating the fully functional bathrooms just for aesthetics is necessary, nor do we need to change the carpet to more expensive flooring. We already own vacuums that work. Does the entire church reallyyy need that expensive paint job? Priorities are out of wack in many churches. You really think it's the best time to renovate with rising inflation at every turn? People are really struggling right now.
We need to learn for ourselves what's in the Bible because if we don't someone will tell us and it might not be true.
I live on meager social security that does not cover my basic necessities (due to severe disability). I rely on charity for much of my needs. I have heard it argued that people like me should still tithe 10% of my SS check! 🤦♀️
Thanks Pastor Mike for that insight. Thanks also for your references to 2 Corinthians 8 and 9. Especially 2 Corinthians 9: 6&7. Refreshing to hear a pastor who has apparently broken out of the "mould" of traditional protestantism and is willing to search the bible to discover exactly how Jesus would like us to live.
As stated, it's a heart issue. Remember the the poor widow in Mark 12.41-44 who offered all she owned. While others were giving out of their surplus.
Yes, I'm familiar with the story. But there is disagreement about what the point of it is.
My family was living paycheck to paycheck for a couple of years and during that time I couldn’t tithe. It bothered me a lot and as a musician in the church it was sometimes brought up indirectly by the leadership as a problem. You can start to feel pretty guilty. But what option do you have? Your first ministry is to your family. It was just adding to the stress. I now have more money and tithe regularly but it took me years to discover there is no rule for tithing in the New Testament. I read the whole Bible. Studied it my whole life. And never knew that. Because you hear it preached on so much you think it’s there when it isn’t. That’s not to say you shouldn’t give. If you have the means then by all means it’s a great thing to do and can be a big blessing.
I pastor in the Philippines, and many members of our congregations struggle to buy enough food. I shudder to think of all the preachers here who demand tithes from their people.
BUT it seems to me that the vast majority of Americans are rich and ought to give _more_ than 10%... cheerfully, and not under compulsion.
"We struggle with not having enough money, just like your people!"
You struggle because you think you need all those luxury items you own and the expensive habits you have.
You're probably right about most Americans having expensive lifestyles, but keep in mind living expenses are also much higher here. For example where I live, I think the cost of living is around $50,000/year for a modest standard of living. Based on a quick Google search, the cost of living in the Philippines is around $12,000/year.
@@JustinMasayda the minimum wage in the Philippines is $7 or $8 _per day._ That's much less than $3000/year.
And because of so much corruption in govt, with corporations bribing the authorities, a lot of people don't even make minimum wage.
You need to make American friends.
@@jejuislandtrekker8113 ? I have many.
The best reason I've heard on the 10% is that it's the ONLY percentage in the Bible, so if you are looking for a baseline or some guidence, there's a good place to start. But it's not commanded in the NT. But giving whatever you decide in your heart is commanded in the NT. And Mike's comment about "it's just rude" is a significant factor for faithfully attending but not faithfully tithing christians.
In Numbers 31 it was 0.2%
@@davidwithington140 See John MacArthur’s answer in a Q & A online: there was also another 10% tax paid every 3rd year to cover festivals. That brings it up to 23.3%.
The festivals was a separate thing... there were other types of offerings. But Jesus himself NEVER disqualified tithing and its obligation. Matthew 23:23- 25 , he stated clearly about it.
@@enilas7 Yes you are right, Jesus never disqualified tithing. But Jesus also never changed tithing. The fact that there are now no more levites makes tithing impossible becasue the levites were the only ones permitted to take tithes- and Jesus never changed that.
@@davidwithington140 Yes, and it wasn't money, and it went to several different groups and purposes.
Wait, _what?!_ I'll admit, my first knee-jerk reaction was "That's wrong!" but after spending ... wow, the better part of and hour and a half(?!) looking into it and pulling from many different references, yea, it's true.
I'm 41 years old and have been diligently tithing 10% because I was told that was "proper", but recently that amount has been becoming a significant burden to my financial situation and I've been ... well not resenting it per se but not looking forward to it as much as my mind keeps thinking about the medical bills I'm struggling to pay down that money could go towards, or how I could fill up the gas tank more than halfway to get to work to earn more money to pay more tithes, and so on. I will still, of course, give to my home church still, but I know I don't have to feel guilty about not meeting a specific amount.
My mind is still just blown away by this revelation.
Tithing is certainly a false aspect of a Christian's responsibility and I appreciate Mike's addressing that here. While the apostles (those sent) did take offerings and where given meals and a place to stay nowhere in Scripture is the "paid professional" office of pastor or any other office supported. Paul made it clear that he was not going to be a burden on people and made sure he provided for himself "working with his own hands".
2Co 12:14 Behold, a third time I am ready to come to you. And I will not burden you, for I do not seek your things, but you. For the children ought not to lay up treasure for the parents, but the parents for the children.
No such thing as professional church members and volunteer church members in the Bible. (Clergy/laity)
Wow, so few believe as me...it was nice to read your comment. We don't even read of full time local salaried pastors in the New Testament, and they didn't exist until Constantine fuses the church and state.
Probably one of the only instances where I would agree with you about the tithing.
I still don’t believe in compulsory giving, but I think there’s ample pre-law and New Testament support for tithing, which is not to say that it’s commanded in the New Testament but it’s also not said to be one of the things that we cease to do in the New Testament.
I also completely disagree with the notion that tithing would have to be done to Israel because we are under the new priesthood of the order of melchizedek of which Jesus is high priest. We also have the example of Abraham who paid the 10th long before there was a law or synagogues or Jewish temple.
Also of all the old testament laws that Jesus reframed, the tithe was one which he held to when confronting the Pharisees.
I think the tithing to Israel thing wasn't thought through before he said it. Part of the problem I have with Mike is that sometimes he is not careful with what he says, especially in this setting with this woman (who blocks comments on her channel but that's beside the point)
Yes, Jesus mentioned tithing in Matthew 23:23-25. He never ever went against it. Also, just because some things aren't reiterated in the NT, doesn't mean it was disqualified.. very dangerous way to study the Bible, in my opinion.
@@DiggitySlice Yes, Mike knew what he was saying. The Old Testament Law was for the tithe to *support the priesthood,* the orphans, the widows, and for a big party at least once a year!
So if we are going to be religious about it, *that's* the place our tithes should go.
There are no instructions or commands to the Gentiles to tithe, or for the church. None!
The only time Jesus mentioned tithing was when He was upbraiding the hypocritical religious *Jewish* leaders, because of their hypocrisy.
The Apostle Paul never mentioned tithing in any of his letters. And he formulated the theology of the New Testament. *Not a mention!*
Abraham gave a tenth of the *spoils of war,* to Melchizedek, and the *rest* he gave to the *king of Sodom.*
He didn't tithe his *income,* and it was a "one-time" event.
We are not Abraham, and we have not brought back spoils from war! That was an *unrepeatable event.*
It's not a command or a pattern for the church to follow.
The Mosaic Law was for the Jews, *never for the Gentiles!* And it doesn't even apply to the Jews who are in Christ, because they are New Covenant Christians.
Jesus spoke as He did to the religious leaders because at the time they were *still under the Old Covenant.* They were scrupulous in their observance of the Law. There is no way that Jesus would have told them *not* to tithe at that point.
But, there is no New Testament teaching for the church regarding tithing! *None at all!*
The Apostle Paul would have taught it if we were meant to do it. He *did teach about extravagant, sacrificial giving, though.*
@@enilas7 Please read my comment on this thread to Dusty Rhodes for more on the subject 👍
You can't form a doctrine on something that is *not mentioned!*
You can't make a *rule* from *silence.*
Otherwise people could lay down a whole lot of rules they think we should be observing, which are absent from the words of *Jesus* and the teachings of the *Apostles.*
We might be told that we have to abide by the *dietary* laws, and the *fabric* rules, and the *ceremonial* laws of the Jewish people, etc.
Such laws were for the Jews, not the Gentiles. And they were for the time before the cross.
This is the only gripe I have with my current church.... Tithing is harped on at every turn. Great teachings otherwise, but every time tithing is brought up I flinch a little... I have to watch my own heart because it makes me feel manipulated when I give any amount. Which I know is not the right way to think.... But it's a struggle in my flesh for sure...
Tithing was Old Testament Law, and applied only to the Jews, not to Old Testament Gentiles or the church.
Actually Brittany, you struggle in not with your flesh, but with the false teachings of your church. It's their struggle that bothers you. Remember under the Old Law, the only ones who tithes were farm, ranch and cattle owners. The tithe consisted of grain, fruit and cattle, no money. Most in Israel didn't tithe and certainly not on their income. Hopefully this helps.
If I was in that situation I would ask my spouse if there was money we could agree to spend on another charity if you feel inclined to give but he’s disagreeing on where. If you can’t afford to give money, or can’t get an agreement to give money, find a way to give time. I often live with little margin of money left over after bills, so I routinely give time in lieu of money. That may be doing volunteer work, or doing some of your own career to non-profits or pro bono work.
Jesus speaking " By you putting your traditions over following what God says you and others that would be entering the Kingdom are not"
Amen. From Adam to Moses--THOUSANDS of years--there was not one command to tithe.
(Abraham tithed _once,_ and Jacob promised to tithe, but those were voluntary.)
And the _one_ NT suggestion that tithing was mandatory was Jesus speaking of the Pharisees, _before_ Jesus' death and resurrection, so the Pharisees were still bound by the Law of Moses.
*Tithing was a covenant between God and ancient Israel.*
I used to attend a large Pentecostal church with a massive, expensive building programme and a pastor who was subtly manipulative about EVERYTHING. Like every other newly employed young person attending the church he approached me about signing up to the tax claim-back scheme. He gave an 'example' of giving £100 a year when he knew that as a young person I would be earning around £1K a year; (in early 70's). He made no mention of the word 'tithe' although the implication was obvious, so I told him to put me down for £50, (which was generous in my circumstances). Not satisfied with that he signed me up for £52 to match the number of weeks in the year. Ever since then I have watched out for preachers who 'fleece the sheep'! My conscience has always been clear as I used to also contribute to another ministry anyway.
our money is not OUR money. It's all God's, everything we have, literally. 10% is such a small price for God's generosity and graciousness, for anyone to make excuses about tithes "not being required", or it's all "determined by your heart", etc. The point should be, "don't be fixed to just 10%". If you hesitate to give even just 10%, it tells a something either about selfishness or insecurity - fear that you won't have enough for the next days, weeks or months - that God won't provide. The tithes fund Church operations, staff salaries, building maintenance, missionaries abroad, funds for calamity donations, social-media presence, events, and a lot more. But God will sustain the Church, with or without your tithes. Your tithes is all about thanksgiving, and part of a process of sanctification, in trusting more and more that God will provide, and in the process, lessening our selfish inclinations.
My old pator said that if we werent supposed to give 10%, then no one would give to the church.
Plenty of people don't believe you are commanded to tithe yet they still give. Sometimes even more then 10%!
When I was a broke college student and single parent, I didn't have money to give. However, I gave of what I had, which was time. I was very active in our children's programs, volunteering with VBS, AWANA, and Sunday School. Now that I'm married and a professional engineer, I love to give money according to my heart and God's wishes (and I still give of my time). I will say that my agnostic husband insists on keeping separate finances and doesn't choose to involve himself in my giving. I guess it could be worse. I could have an agnostic husband who demands I don't give.
Give with something you can give. Your time, your talents,etc
My wife and I are not wealthy, but we give what we can monetarily (and it is a joy that we can!). But we also are eager all the more to give offerings of service when/where we can. In seasons to come when our money is more and perhaps our capacity to serve is less, then we will endeavor to give more with our dollars than with our digits (our hands/service).
Thanks for sharing 🙏🏾
His grace and mercy be upon you and your loved ones 🕊️🥛🍯
This is such an American concept. No 10% required or even expected in my country.
Actually, giving 10% is found in the Bible.
And this stone, which I have set for a pillar, shall be God's house: and of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee.
-Genesis 28:22
And concerning the tithe of the herd, or of the flock, even of whatsoever passeth under the rod, the tenth shall be holy unto the LORD.
-Leviticus 27:32
@@FlyTour69 Ever researched what the new testament has to say about this?
@@FlyTour69 While I understand what you are saying, this is the OT. We are no longer bound by the Law of the OT. God DOES love a cheerful giver, however...
This was very freeing to watch.
We have been gifted our lives. Anything we thankfully give is a tiny amount compared to that.
But God blesses us and wants us to steward those blessings for the good of his kingdom, not to selfishly bury them (Matthew 25: 14-30). Let us not be begrudging in giving (2 Cor. 9:6-7). Money, time, work, it all has value.
Mr. Pastor Mike! Would you mind calling the president to see if you can't get a public service announcement with this video broadcasted for the entire world?! If not, can I give you my pastor's info then, because I am sick and tired of him talking about people are robbing God and going to hell unless they "pay" 10 percent of their 1st fruits (I should send a fruit basket huh? Four for a dollar!).... I'm just saying....don't forget the offering which is always separate btw! The offering part is more like what Jesus taught than the law, but I have yet to hear any preacher give a sermon on money that tells people that they even have an option!.... Get on my nerves! God bless you man!! I love you, Melissa, Allen, and Frank! Y'all are the bomb for the way you guys present truth.
Charitable donations are tax deductible and the IRS considers church tithing tax deductible as well. To deduct the amount you tithe to your church or place of worship report the amount you donate to qualified charitable organizations, such as churches, on Schedule A.