Great thing to remember. It can work in other contexts too; I often find myself going to the phone as a distraction and for comfort when I could be spending time with God.
Romans 10:9-11 KJV 9 that if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. ❤❤❤
One of the best things a friend has EVER done for me, was when I texted her in tears because my husband and I had a fight and our son was scheduled to be delivered the following morning. I was SO worried that the entire labor/delivery process would be miserable because of the fight, and she straight up told me, "Stop stressing about it, you married a good man. He's going to be there for you tomorrow and it's going to be a beautiful day." She could have added to the conflict by validating my feelings about what a jerk I thought he was being, but instead she reminded me that at the end of the day, he's a good man. Turns out the next day WAS beautiful and my husband personally delivered our baby. Find you some friends who care more about your marriage than they do about helping you feel self righteous.
It’s a blessing to have honest, truthful friends. I think it’s possible to validate your friend’s feelings while simultaneously speaking truth to them as your friend did. Just because a friend is feeling hurt by something that happened with her husband doesn’t mean her feelings are baseless. Likewise, just because she and her husband had an argument doesn’t mean he’s a terrible person who should be verbally bashed behind his back (which is gossiping).
@@Tool0GT92 If anyone is married and have a fight make sure you fix it by the end of the night squash it at your feet don’t let it sink in reminds me of when jesus said “leave your gift there in front of the altar. First go and be reconciled to them; then come and offer your gift.” Matthew 5:24 So be reconciled before the night ends.
This is my suggestion, the problem with venting to others is the spread of false information and the risk of false validation of sin. Venting to God has no such risks, and is well modeled in psalms
That is so true! Bringing your hurts and worries to God means that you aren't looking for validation and indignation; he will lift you up when you are humble.
I think gossip is talking about things that shouldn't be talked about ("Did you hear that apparently Jane's husband was hugging another woman at the hotel last week?") but venting ("I don't know what to do at work, my boss keeps messing up my orders and blaming me for them") is communicating a problem with the intention of seeking help, comfort or counsel. It can be a fine line tho and I struggle with it sometimes.
Well that gets confusing. I hear women say all the time "I don't want a solution, I just want to vent." So it's at least partially clear that venting and problem solving are two separate things.
I think we also have to share and keep in my the intention of why we are doing this and be sure to talk about the positive characteristics of that individual and make it clear that this not slander but concern because you see that that person is in the wrong and want to do everything you can to help them but instead they view your criticism as an attack on their personhood.
There’s no excuse for gossip. If i need to vent about my spouse, or seek advice, then I can be vague and diplomatic. I can vague neutral things like, “we had a disagreement” or “I’m concerned about a choice he made.” No need to bad mouth him ever.
If these are concerns you know you can handle then by all means be vague. But if you actually don't know what to do and you really need help, then you need to open up with the details especially to a trained counselor, because that's the only way they can help you.
When I was young, My Mother told me when someone talks about people in front of you, they talk about you when you are not there. This is so true. It has helped me deal with people. Also the book of Proverbs…the most helpful.
As a woman, I have to say Mike - you hit the nail right on the head. We want to "vent" when we feel wronged and we want someone to hear AND yes validate by siding with us. People are lying to themselves when they say "I just need to vent." Truthfully, they're experiencing an ongoing issue that has not been addressed in a healthy or productive manner. That needs to be nipped in the bud! If not, the unresolved issue will continue to degrade the relationship.
There’s nothing wrong with having your emotions validated and someone recognizing/acknowledging you’re upset and the reason why , it’s called having an emotional IQ , but likewise it lets the person know they feel seen and hear which otherwise some people are taught their emotions don’t matter and this is when they tend to numb/bottle things in , don’t communicate how they feel about majority of things , or tend to become doormats …
@@MNIU_ There's a thin line between gossip and demonstrating the past events in one's life and/or opening up emotionally. Most woman that I know have always abused the ability to either confront or cohere with such vulnerable emotions or events of high potency. That is why one should be utterly vigilant and not subvert to these supposed _'vents'_ but categorically test and examine the claims made, and then proceed to comply.
My aunt & Ive had this debate so many times. She (& many of my friends) insists that we HAVE TO vent or we'll explode! Or "...or it will eat you alive inside". It just gets worse when i "vent". Telling Jesus works best for me. NOPE
As a trained counselor, I'd like to clarify this misconception that people have - that to validate is to pander. That is false. Validating is not the same as pandering. Going alongside a person means you start by understanding their subjective perspective, that's validation, then from there you lead them towards a more objective perspective, that's guidance. This is what makes counseling effective.
I've been guilty of "venting" about my Husband. I've come to understand that venting my emotions, really comes from a place of not feeling heard or understood when I am hurting. I've been working on my prayer life, and taking my hurts to the Lord which lessens the urge to vent to friends considerably.
Yes!! THIS. So many times when I have felt like Venting to friends about my life and family.. I just prayed about it and opened my heart to God. I can always feel Him listen and by the end I'm calm and have a general sense of what to do. He's the best!! ❤️
Take this small story from Saint Augustine's Confessions, for what it's worth. I don't mean to insinuate anything about your marriage by using it as parallel, as I doubt it's what the woman in his recounting had to deal with, but the advice is worth keeping in mind for all marriages. Saint Augustine recounts knowing a devout woman who had a husband who fits the stereotype of the loud, angry, man who comes home and is very demanding of their spouse. Which leads to the obvious. Abuse in either greater or smaller fashion. Everyone they knew assumed he had to be hurting her, and were continually shocked when this turned out not to be true. When she finally shared WHY such a man would never hit her, she confessed this. When her husband would get upset or angry and be loudly demanding, she simply obeyed. If he was being unreasonable, she'd bow to his version what was going on, she'd let him have his way. Quietly do her duty as wife. Then wait for him to calm down. Once her husband was no longer angry, upset, riled up? THEN she would confront him about the issue. Tell him how she saw things. Bring up the mistake he was making. How he was being unfair. This.. apparently worked. Very well. Though till such a time, again, she would act as the dutiful quiet wife. Typical viewpoint even then would be to get out from under such a man, fight back, or even simply escape. Confessions confirms the thoughts other wives had on that subject. Ones who had similar husband who WERE abused. Things aren't any different now. So much for the romantic view of a time when marriages weren't like today. Through meek wisdom and loyal service she was not only able to sooth her husband but guide him out of his error as well. Have you ever had your cake and ate it too? I confess I envy the self control and patience such a woman had to have had. I can only imagine she was very close to Christ. Meek wisdom and loyal service is the exact kind of behavior he prescribed as a cure against the world's ills. We just have trouble seeing why it works sometimes.
@@elizabethp4064 A narcissist specifically? I have never had to deal with one on a personal level, but scripture contains the cure for all ills if you're willing to see it. Know this, though. Not all cures are going to be sweet. Much of what is expected of us is blatantly unfair from a personal perspective. Many reject sections of Christ's gospel because they consider it impossible to live how he demands. Yet you cannot part out Christ. It's all or nothing. What needs to be done may not be fun or fair to us, but it can keep situations from devolving. Or even improve them if we have some persistence. Being that beacon of light Christ wants us to be may come with people trying to tear it down. Maybe even people close to us. The woman in Saint Augustine's story very persistently loved her husband even in her method of correcting him. That had to have been very difficult, and I imagine only faith saw her through doing it. I doubt it was any more fun handling her drunk husband than it was for anyone else in such a situation. I save this for last because referring to it outside the context of being loving won't work. Psychology does have some methods for what NOT to do in relation to certain broken personality types. Ways of not falling in to certain traps. May be worth poking in to. But as always, Christ comes first. Otherwise it's just you trying to be the 'winner' in the equation.
@Sarah R and Calamity Chaela I love this! It took me years, but I've found this to be true too. When I need counsel, go to wise counsel. When I need to vent, I journal my prayers to God and gain clarity, and often develop exactly the outline I need to take to be understood when I talk about the issue with the person I need to work the issue out with.
Interesting topic. In our men's group we encourage everyone to be open, authentic and vulnerable. In doing so men really open up about problems in daily life. This sometimes has us discuss our marriages, our kids, and other people that are part of the story. There is a fine line between venting and gossip. It also let's other men know it's not just ourselves that struggle with some problems.
I think there's confusion over what gossip and rumors are. I think gossiping is more like talking about rumors while spreading rumors is more like actively creating them and telling everyone you know. "Gossip" would have been an important tool for traditional women anyway. Women needed to be very social in these village settings because they all took care of each other's children ect... Information like a verbally abusive husband could allow for a women to be more cautious with allowing her kids around that household. There's of course many other potential situations where it's useful. What's not useful is talking about things you don't know firsthand or didn't got from the source. Those are rumors and akin to baring false witness. We think of gossip today (some do) as idle chat in general. That would mean talking about sports, weather, new upcoming automobiles, CEOs stepping down ect... is gossip. News in general would be nothing but gossip. Men talking about their home life and issues just can't be a bad thing in general. I won't accept that until it's proven to me by Greek scholars. Even then I'll question the true definition of the words used.
@@CynHicks I understand that, I think its what's within the confines of the group. Our group is very open. So as an example some men struggle with porkpork, list, drinking and other such things. It becomes gossip when it leaves the confines of the group. If someone goes home and starts talking to the wives it becomes gossip and unhealthy. I think it has to do with the intentions of the conversations of the men have inside the group. When it goes outside the group it becomes unhealthy unless it has a safety concern....thanks for the input.
@@flint2080 Agreed. It should be clear that any communication with the intent or possibility to unjustly harm or embarrass someone is not Christ like. You can call that gossip I suppose (and people do) but I'm not sure there shouldn't be a better defined word for it. My real point is that the English word "gossip" and it's modern definition must be too broad for a perfect translation.
Gossiping is not just rumors, ever hear of the telephone game, and how a message can be drastically distorted as it is passed around even if the base is true and benign so just gossiping or just venting is starting rumors even if unintentional The men's group flint sounds that it isnt even about truly venting but SEEKING ACTIONABLE ADVICE, but sometimes those involved may not know a good solution and that is when it turns into just venting. The key is that information brought into a space NEVER leaves that space, the only ones to share are those DIRECTLY involved. Even if one is directly involved it can still be gossip, if the truth (objective truth, as it would be perceived by heaven) is distorted in the presentation
I think "Bible study" groups have become more of venting sessions than learning and living biblical truths. We've turned Sunday school into codependent therapy sessions.
Some people use the word "vent" to mean exactly what Mike is saying we should do to share that elicits wise counsel. Others use "vent" to mean the type of talking to justify their emotion even if its wrong.... unloving, prideful judgemental or hateful. They want to be "validated" even if they are wrong. That is what becomes flattery and gossip.
I have never once heard someone use the word "vent" to mean what mike is saying. I am from alberta canada, where are you from that people use that word in both ways?
Well said. “Vent” has different meanings depending on who you’re talking to. I personally use the word “vent” to describe moments when I’m discussing and explaining how and why I’m feeling a certain way.
Yes. I've used "venting" to mean just talking through things and processing. Often I don't even need them to say anything, but in telling the story out loud I can see more clearly what's happening and how I should respond. I am definitely a verbal processer, so it's different if you're more like my husband who needs quiet time alone to mentally process.
This highlights why it is so important to define words when having a discussion like this. You can see where as soon as they started talking about what they meant around 3:15 the disagreement about venting became an agreement on looking for counsel and not slander/gossip.
I’m not saying anyone here is wrong, I’m just sharing my opinion on the definition of venting. In the physical world vent just means to get rid of excess heat. If we take it in that sense, then I don’t like using the word to describe honestly looking for advice. I think most accurately, venting would be just expressing your emotions to help yourself calm down. This can be done to another person, or to nothing in particular, as long as you know it’s actually going to calm you down instead of stoking the fire. If I’m right, that would mean that venting isn’t looking for wise counsel, because for that you’re looking for healthy fuel, but it also isn’t necessarily seeking validation, because for that you might just be looking for the hottest burning fuel. True venting is just getting rid of the heat so you can think rationally and make good decisions about what kind of fuel you need.
As a women I will say that we feel like we NEED to vent but in actuality we WANT to vent . Mike is correct that most times in these situations we just want someone to be on our side. We are not seeking real counsel on how to fix the issue. 2 added things is that my sister NEVER has said one bad thing to me about her husband. I'm sure she gets frustrated with him or he does silly things but I've never heard it from her. Also, a person I know who is divorced never Vents to their small children about the other spouse. That would take alot. There is a reason they got divorced and couldn't live together anymore but their kids will never hear gossip about mommy or daddy. Mike you are so right on !!!
This concept is so foreign to me lol. Both of my parents vent to each of us kids about each other since they’re divorced but both honestly I feel like a lot of things would be better if everyone did this :)
Idk, I have a bit of an issue with condemning all "venting" unless you are getting specific counsel for an issue. I feel like emotional support is also a valid thing to want sometimes, and that doesn't always mean you are getting an answer or a solution to "fix" a problem. Sometimes just a hug and someone telling you aren't crazy and they understand how you feel can be very comforting. I fully agree that there are many times that we want to vent that we really probably shouldn't, and it would be gossip, but I just disagree with the blanket statements as if it's all bad unless you are "fixing" something.
@@CassTeaElle I'm not going to get dogmatic about this issue, especially regarding women, but I tend to fall on Mike's side of this. So as I was thinking about the perceived need to vent (and guys say we need it too) it occurred to me that if pure *venting* was all we needed, we could go outside and do it in the woods, and it would have the same effect. Otherwise, it would seem to me like validation would be what we are really getting out of it. I haven't screamed in the woods in a very long time, but it seems it was a little cathartic, but not as much as venting to a person. What do you think?
I see an ongoing process in this. Others are saying venting is good and even necessary, but I wonder if it's not an inferior solution we justify because it feels good, and causes a temporary release of tension. It sounds to me like the world's wisdom. which is usually opposed to God's. After decades of advising people to voice their frustrations to the one who's frustrating you, psychologists are starting to notice that it does more harm than good. Turns out "a soft answer turns away wrath" was the better method all along but we thought we knew better. We're told that it's critical to let your spouse know what you will be expecting from the relationship, and then hold them accountable if they fall short. (the 50/50 rule) God says to give 100% and not demand anything. "Love is longsuffering and kind, does not promote itself, does not insist on it's own way." That's way harder. But I've seen it heal marriages. Anyway, I think if we indulge in feel-good 'cures' like venting, it keeps us from dealing with our issues on a deeper level and makes us *weaker* emotionally. To voluntarily face the frustration internally, and let go of it, will make us emotionally *stronger*. (ask me how I know : ) I think it's a question of building strength into a marriage instead of insisting on our right to vent and be validated, which weakens it. God's way is always harder, but it actually works. And makes US into better people instead of trying to make THEM into better people. My ten cents...
@@josephmiller997 well, obviously that's true if by "venting" we mean just speaking our feelings aloud. But that's not what anybody means by venting. Seeking support, encouragement, a second brain to help you process something, or yes, even validation, is not automatically bad and sinful.
Gossip is the retelling of something you heard about others that does not involve/impact you AND the person you are telling. It is intended to pass judgment on others. Venting is the telling of something that does involve/impact you OR the person you are telling. It is intended to resolve a problem with others.
I think it’s important to distinguish validating someone’s irritation and validating someone’s emotions. Women thrive on having their emotions validated, even before wanting counseling.
Men do, too. It's that the emotions men want validated are socially different than the ones women want validated. I say socially because men and women, especially in the church, are taught what are acceptable and unacceptable emotions to outwardly display, even though we all have the same emotions.
I'm enjoying these clips from the marriage conference! Very thankful to have a channel like yours that is always a good influence. I've been struggling to a point that I've questioned my salvation, but I'm not giving up and I know God won't give up on me, even when things seem hopeless. Very thankful for your content, insight and direction.
I'll pray for you Sara! Faith in Christ is always the first response to any kind of struggle like that. Everything else flows out of that and nothing else can replace that. God bless you sister.
Scripture describes the church like a flock of sheep. Sometimes sheep can become lost, but they are still part of the flock. They are just apart. I don't agree with the idea that if you're doubting your salvation then it automatically means you're not saved. Doubt is a human condition. Just remember that even if you're not sure, God is. He knows his own even when his own feel unsure. When we belong to God, scripture tells us that our names are written in the Lamb's book of life. Now you need to believe that God has an eraser to scrub names out after the fact if you believe that it's possible to have your salvation reversed, once affirmed in God's eyes. Don't worry over your doubts. He does what we can't.
Hello Sara, I think I have come across you on another UA-cam channel, but if not I'm sorry for mentioning, but I pray and hope that you are safe in the Lord, the Bible says that if you confess with your tongue and believe in your heart that Jesus Christ died for your sins and rose from the dead, then you shall be saved. Jesus said that He will never let go of his children and he that comes to him will never thirst, May God bless you, sister. John 10:28 King James Version 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
There’s a difference between venting and processing. Many women I know really do need to verbally process through things, and then they get to that point you described where you either see sin you didn’t, you understand your heart or someone else’s, etc. Big picture, processing can be helpful to get on the root of an issue or situation. Venting is just sharing feelings, which like you said doesn’t achieve anything that’s praiseworthy.
Exactly. I love Mike, but I feel like his take on this is too black and white. I totally appreciate the conviction to be cautious about gossip, but I don't think processing aloud with someone is always wrong, nor do I believe it's always wrong to want a little bit of emotional validation. Gaslighting is a powerful thing, and to explain a situation to an objective third party and have them yell you you aren't crazy for being hurt by something that was hurtful, can be hugely important sometimes. He said that the validation of irritation often gets you more riled up, but for me it's usually the opposite. When I've been able to process something with someone and have them either validate what I already thought or help me understand something I didn't before, that's usually exactly what I need to be able to let it go and move on.
I definitely need to verbally process. My church just split, and I have been so careful to not spread negativity, but sometimes I have to have an outside perspective. My brother, who is trained in Biblical counseling, has been such a rock for me through this because I know he will be absolutely truthful, and faithful to admonish and encourage.
@@CassTeaElle You’re misunderstanding Mike’s case here. He said you need to find people who will both support you and convict you. He never said your counselors should always tell you that you’re the bad guy. It sounds like your scenario is what Mike thinks is the ideal scenario. Your counselors tell you what they think you need to hear, whether it’s good or bad, and your behavior is healthy as well, because you aren’t afraid to hear that you may be part of the problem. Obviously I don’t know how emotional you are, but it’s okay to seek out counsel in a fit of emotion as long as you’re willing to listen to whatever counsel you’re given. That’s the difference with venting: with venting you’re only looking for one response.
I do think it’s the role of a best friend to be able to communicate deep thoughts and feelings. Gossip is wrong but needing someone to talk about personal things to help with processing a situation is needed, nothing wrong with that.
Absolutely, but it might also depend on the individual person/relationships. Some 'best friends' feel like they need to validate you and your actions in order to stay your best friend, and that would not be a healthy kind of feedback you get from them. It would _feel_ good for sure, but it would not open your eyes to the flaws you perhaps have yourself - rather the opposite.
Mike wow….. wisdom is like a wrecking ball is it not. The air got thick I thought my connection was bad. Thank you so much for being a messenger to bless us with the wisdom of the Jesus Christ. Man you just dont know so you will have to take my word for it but God is working it right now everywhere more than I have been able to notice ever before.
Great breakdown of the difference between venting during counselling & gossip and/or slander Mike. The problem is where to access Christian counselling? Christian psychologists are few, and are generally out of the average person's price range. Ideally, counsellors should be found within the church, but I've not found one who has any experience with one of my battles, including mental health. And yet I've met so many other Christians with "mental health" issues ranging from depression to psychotic disorders within the church. There's a real need for affordable Christian counselling, and in my experience that need is not being met
IMO, the difference between gossiping and venting is that the former is talking about people to damage their reputation, while venting is just talking about your feelings to get them off your chest.
While I certainly think intent matters, what if your intent is to talk about your feelings, but the effect on other people is still to damage the subject's reputation?
I think she’s right about venting though. She’s talking about just saying things, not necessarily gossip. Some people literally can’t think without talking. So neutral venting, fine. One-sided venting, not good.
"His anger" are two important qualifying words. "Venting" as we use it in our modern context doesn't necessarily mean to speak out of anger. It means, most broadly, to share emotional troubles with another person. Sharing an emotional burden/seeking counsel without slandering others is quite possible. It is a better choice than not sharing, in many a case; if we never "vent" in this broader sense, how could our Christian brothers and sisters provide us with support, direction, and correction if need be when we are internally struggling?
The worst is when you have a mother that “vents” to you about your dad. My mom would do that to us growing up and it was awful. She didn’t tell us about their sex life or anything thank goodness but still it caused a lot of resentment towards my father for many many years
Or sometimes the mother will vent to her daughters about another sibling giving her trouble. Turning her daughters against that sibling. As was the case with me. Its important to always see to it you turn your children's hearts toward each other not away. When you pass away all they will have is each other.
I try not to gossip, but I do feel the need to vent at times. It's usually about non-believers. Just being honest. Try having your mother-in-law live with you for 20 years. You will need to vent 😇
Venting is necessary. What determines whether it's venting vs. gossip is the motive. Does the one venting genuinely want resolution? That's why God has a spirit of counsel. You're mixing the two.
However we might conceal or disguise a matter of gossip, God knows EXACTLY what our true motives are at any given moment - even if we don't. The moment our interest in speaking about somebody isn't with a heart for God's very best for them, then we are venturing into gossip territory. Gossip is a terrible thing in as much as it's so easily justified by the person/s doing it, thus compounding their sin. At its very worst, gossip likes to wrap itself in a cloak of prayer.
Loved this. It’s a little gem to take home and really think about…. A good biblical counsellor is what our hearts should be - not gossipers. Thanks Mike. You really brought it across perfectly! That’s how my husband and I sees it as well. How wonderful for your wife to still go to her parents for counsel. Wow!!! God bless 💕🙏🏻
Wow, Mike is so good at staying the course on his teaching even when someone is pushing back. I need to learn how to do that. He kindly stayed the course in affirming no, you DON'T need to vent.
Love the biblical reasoning. Yeah, most often we want our friends on our side. But we vent about bad not the good things. But maybe if I had someone to vent with I wouldn't have stayed in the emotionally abusive relationship with my ex husband. I needed God but I hadn't found him yet.
Shalom man of God and many blessings to you, to your beautiful wife and families (personal/ministries). When women or girls use venting as an outlet, they have to make sure that the structure of the conversation is healthy and is built around the process of bringing peaceful resolve to the issues discussed. Because it is easy for venting to go into gossip mode and into the mode of slander. But it is helpful to have women in the posture as "watchmen" so the conversation can be protected from any unfruitful conduct. So venting is not harmful. It is only harmful when the structure of it goes unprotected by the persons involved. Shalom
Honestly, Mike Winger, you are one of the most wise and humble person I have ever seen!!! May God continue to bless you with wisdom and understanding of His Word to help your brothers and sisters in the Body of Christ.
I guess I'm one of those rare girls who hates gossip, even back when I was an unbeliever. in school I was the main gossip topic of girl group's in class and was bullied by them. So I used to be with guys mostly throughout school life to escape the drama. It's huge problem in women I've noticed, idk why. Being a girl even I never understood this. But again, it's not about degrading one gender and lifting another, both guys and girls sin in this area. Mostly towards the same gender
@@heavnxbound of course , both genders sin. No one's better than the other, just stated my own experience. usually bullying occurs in between same gender folks, if you're guy then you're of course likely to be bullied by dudes
Same here. I've never talked bad about my husband to anyone. And when I got pregnant I started to cut out the unhealthy people. But it's a good thing that I did because it ended up being a high risk pregnancy.
I think that, like almost every bad thing that we do, it’s a corruption of something good. Women and girls tend to be more social and want to be part of a group. That can be good because it’s a way of keeping the community informed and is an important trait for fostering relationships with people. Men would be terrible at this because we don’t talk like that with each other. You could say that godly women are a communication network for the local body of believers, sending and receiving information for their households. The corruption is a bit like the mainstream media. People react more strongly to salacious details and tawdry secrets more than they do to things that are wholesome and good, so women are actually incentivized to gossip and spew this venom because they get more attention. This only exacerbated by things like reality tv and soap operas, both of which are overwhelmingly watched by women as opposed to men, where this behavior is seen as good.
I think there are people that think out loud or process things by talking. So this would be considered venting, but this can easily become gossip for sure.
I think we need to understand the difference between gossip and venting. Because if you have a burden and need to tell someone because it lifts a burden off your shoulders, then I think you should tell a person in confidence.
When we have a pressing problem with a person that can't be solved, don't be ashamed to seek wise counsel. But do he sure to vet the counselor, because a gifted one will never propagate slander or build you up in unjust accusations. Your friends are not likely to be those gifted counselors.
I love Mike, but I don't fully agree with him on this one. There can be a difference between gossiping and venting. Venting CAN be gossip, but it can also not be. Sometimes it is difficult to see the line, so it's always good to err on the side of caution and to be careful not to be gossiping, but I don't agree with the blanket idea that "venting is bad." Honestly, I really do think this is partially a male/female misunderstanding. Because the fact that he says "when I vent, nothing is really fixed" is such a typical man thing to say. lol men tend to always want to fix things, and if they don't see it as fixing the situation, then they don't understand why it is needed. But women sometimes need emotional support and encouragement, and it's not always about having the situation fixed. It's just about knowing you aren't walking through it alone. I fully agree that gossip is bad and that we all (myself included) probably do it way more than we realize. But I just also think Mike is sort of thinking like a man here and just doesn't quite understand. And when it comes to "validating my irritations," I understand the danger he's talking about, but there is also such a thing as gaslighting, and it can be comforting to just have someone tell you you're not crazy for feeling a certain way. Personally, for me that usually doesn't get me more stirred up, it actually does the exact opposite. It helps me to be able to let it go. So yeah, idk. I see his perspective, but I think he is just only looking at it one specific way and there are many other perceptions that are different. EDIT: I just want to clarify that when I talk about venting, I'm usually picturing venting TO my husband about a situation, not venting to other people about my husband. I really almost never do that. I think that's a really bad idea and can cause a lot of problems for a number of reasons. So I fully agree, when it comes to venting to others about your spouse, don't do that unless you are really in a serious situation that requires external counsel.
It would help a great deal if the term ‘venting’ was defined, so everyone knows exactly where the starting line is. As said in other comments, verbally processing could be ‘venting’. Gossiping could be ‘venting’. A clear definition when confronting a topic of this magnitude requires explanation as to where we are starting from
Mike, that really spoke to my heart. As a pastor of a small church, I am bound by law to make no mention of anything said In private as no doubt are you. For me, this is an awesome responsibility; serious as a heart attack - or terminal cancer, if you will. Once being many years in a congregation in San Diego which collapsed, it later came out that the pastor was sharing personal private information among those whom he counseled. These things should nnever be! God bless you in your ministry and for your videos which are an erstwhile inspiration, true spiritual manna. Love from Norway, brother!
That's a good point about looking for validation and solidifying negative thoughts about someone. We should be seeking out good counsel that moves us toward peace. In a way, I think wanting to "vent" is looking for sympathy when we're going through a hard time (just as with other issues in life), but we have to think wisely about the people we are going to- whether they are going to actually help, or if they are going to add to the problem.
Thank you Pastor Mike for pointing out the importance of giving trustworthy counselors the full picture. I agree, letting them see the good and bad of ALL sides is the best way to help counselors most clearly understand what's really happening. Your highlight on this factor is spot on. 👍🏻
The "venting" thing is genuinely tricky, because it's so commonly accepted as permissible. But I think yours is a good take on it. We tend to carve out space for certain actions because they gratify a strongly felt impulse, and somehow this puts them in a category of necessity instead of choice. The human person is seen as a balloon, that either gets vented out or over-inflates to the point of bursting. And there is certainly something to be said about not simply suppressing and ignoring struggles and passions, but that doesn't mean that every felt impulse must inevitably be gratified, or that there is guaranteed to be some healthy and God-honoring way to gratify it. Lust, for example, can be a strongly felt urge, but there isn't a God-honoring way to exercise lust, nor must every impulse to lust be somehow exercised in order to stay healthy. Sometimes this very idea becomes an excuse for behaviors like pornography; the impulse seems to build up over time, and a person can convince themselves that it is simply a matter of time before they gratify it. The same seems to be true for gossip. I might feel a strong impulse to speak strongly and unlovingly about another person, but that doesn't make it good, or a fact of life, nor is there an amount of annoyance at which that action somehow becomes pleasing to God. Rather, you find ways to work through and conquer those temptations by the self-control and wisdom of the Spirit. And very much with the counsel of friends, which also is a gift of God.
There is a God-honoring way to satisfy lust-it’s called being married. Lust does not automatically equate to sinfulness; it’s literal definition is simply “intense sexual desire”. Married couples can and actually SHOULD feel that emotion toward one another. This is one of the main themes of Song of Solomon. The two characters are in lust for one another but it’s beautifully between man and his wife.
@@TamiaDunlap I'm kinda mixed on that. If we define lust as you say (a dictionary definition is often as fine as any, but there's nothing authoritative about it as its function is descriptive of common usage and not prescriptive of all usage), then I grant that that outlet is available for married people, but obviously not for single people. Those unmarried people addressed by Paul in 1 Corinthians, for example, do not have that option and would be affected by the dynamic I have described above. It's also worth noting, however, that the word "lust" is often used by many in the Christian tradition, both nowadays and in history, to describe a sinful form of desire that is always wrong, even in the context of marriage. Either way, the goal of mentioning lust was to illustrate my original point, so while I suppose I might have picked a vice with less exception, I think it still illustrates the point. But I appreciate your point and it is fair to mention.
@@brandonwhitaker8468 Thank you for your reply. Respectfully, your reply seems to be an unnecessarily convoluted way to simply say that you were using the word “lust” colloquially. Yes, colloquially, lust may mean unbridled passion AND following through with it (in the context of fornication) but only because humans lack self-control, especially adult males. This is why one of the fruits of the spirit is self-control rather than celibacy. Lust is a natural reaction to sexual stimuli and if your spouse is being sexually alluring, not getting aroused would actually be problematic. The Biblical view is not that anything body is bad and anything spirit is good (rather that’s Gnosticism), the Biblical view is instead that humans consistently choose to distort the passions and pleasures given to us by seizing them or embarking upon them unhealthily. Happiness is amazing; hurting others in order to be happy is not. It’s the same thing with lust & sex. They’re not dirty or sinful in and with-of themselves-they are simply easily degraded and poorly acted upon. I understood your point, definitely, and think it was a good one.
@@TamiaDunlap I appreciate the response, and as far as convoluted responses are concerned I am often guilty as charged. But I was not trying to encompass the act of fornication in my use of the term lust, so it appears that my wording was not only superfluous but even inadequate, for which I apologize. Please correct me if I've misunderstood you, but it seems like you are implying that the only sexual sin is that which the body commits, and that a person who keeps themselves from physically acting out in sexual sin has avoided it. But this is not what Jesus teaches in the sermon on the mount (see Matt. 5:28). I agree with you that the Scriptures do not teach the Gnostic rejection of all things physical, and I do not mean to espouse it. I would simply suggest that there is a sin of lust which is entirely internal and does not need to lead to fornication in order to be sin. I am not saying that attraction is a sin, or that the rightful intimacy between husband and wife is a sin. But I would follow the teaching of Jesus, as well as in much of Scripture, that the desire's of one's heart can be themselves sinful without being physically acted upon.
Is there a distinction between venting and lamenting? Was Job "venting" to his friends? Or was he lamenting? When I hear, "sometimes I just have to vent", I think it means people need to get off their chest how they feel regarding their situations, to express openly the pain and frustration they've been holding in. They need to lament. Now, "going on a rant" is a whole different situation.... That's more like gossip in my opinion. But I suppose some people say, "I need to vent", when what they really want to do is go on a rant about someone or something. 🤷
I 100% agree with Mike! Venting is so damaging and can lead to grumbling or gossip. Opening up about issues with a humble attitude can be ok, verbally processing when you are confused can be good, but venting isn’t a need.
You’re 100% on point Mike. I wholly agree with you. I sincerely wish women would stop justifying gossip as something other than what it is. Gossipers aren’t trustworthy as far as I believe. One thing I have learned, is that you can’t talk bad about someone that you are praying genuinely for good for them. I pray. That’s always best. I think of gossip as poison. It’s destructive. And slander is serious to God just like other sin. It speaks volumes of the person who’s gossiping heart. I avoid gossipers. Just not healthy. It goes against so many biblical principles and I think people are desensitized to this sin because it’s so prevalent in our cultures.
It’s interesting, this one topic seems so widely and easily justified it’s almost scary. Like playing word games to get around the true meaning of something and give into our flesh. I never really thought about it before, but this feels like a topic we should ALL be a little more weary around, because it doesn’t feel as dangerous as the other “bigger” sins we see every day. Similar to like gluttony or pride. But when you use phrases like “well sometimes you just need to ‘blank’” or “it’s a ‘blank’ thing” you almost use your own “wisdom” to stop yourself from hearing what the Bible has to say on the topic.
Pastor Mike, you nailed it. Thank you for revealing this in great wisdom and clarity and calling out venting for what it is. This is rightfully convicting.
I vent to my husband about my mom. She often says very hurtful things that leave me in tears and I don't know what the other options are (she refuses to see a family counsellor or talk to the pastor about it). I'm high functioning autistic and so is my son and her criticisms are about how, if I was a better mother, he would be normal. I need someone to talk to about it and don't see what's wrong with venting to my husband. We've also been getting therapy even though my mom refuses to go. But I can't just keep it to myself because I end up having a breakdown. I think that sharing everything (even venting) with your spouse is ok because you are one and what effects one of you effects the other. Venting about your spouse would be a different story, but I honestly don't know what I would say if I had to vent about him...
I think the operative question that mike is working at is if you are looking for spiritual support and advice, or if you are looking for blind agreement. If you are venting to your husband but are really just looking for a yes man, or if you really want someone to support you in both love and in truth. I would also note the one flesh argument here. I could be pretty easily convinced venting to your spouse is not gossip because you are one flesh.
I agree with everything and thank you. BUT I'm in the trenches of toddlerhood and its rough over here. So I just truly need to vent about the little things like my daughter doesn't want to nap but if she doesn't, she's irritable and easily upsets and then cue the infamous tantrums. Which might have been avoided or more easily de-escalated if she had more focus/energy to listen/communicate... etc etc blah blah ... YOU SEE ?! Some people really do need to vent sometimes! Because she's a handful and it's developmental and I've tried everything - therefore- no counsel can be given that hasn't already been given or tried, no counsel is needed. I just genuinely can go on with motherhood if I've felt less alone by having someone listen to my issues without feeling the need to react or help me. Just listen and maybe give virtual hugs lol. In fact even just writing his has helped me a little, knowing that somewhere someone out there some day MIGHT read this and even if its months or years later. I will feel like I had a voice and that's enough.
@@moriahw3947 thanks for the validation! I agree it's not gossip if it's done respectfully. I've seen some moms trash their kids reputation for the sake of "venting". No matter the age, 1 yr old or 11 yr old or 31 yr old. I'm a big believer that our children's personhood and privacy should be considered before venting. I guess because it's a trigger for me from Watching my mom trash my name my whole life.
Ken Sande says something like “motherhood is “speed sanctification” for mothers-24/7 training in patience and every other virtue” 😉 Every mom gets what you are going through. It’s crazy hard, but God will help if you keep seeking Him. Hang in there! You were made for this. ❤
Gossip is when you discuss other people's personal affairs that don't involve you. Talking about your own marriage isn't gossip. Just be careful who you share such details with.
What if you're discussing your marriage partner's sexual issues or annoying personal habits or hygiene? That would definitely be gossip, and hurtful and embarrassing for your partner.
That is gossip- spiritual oppression, abuse that needs to be addressed by the pastors and church and other serious things need to be shared in a biblical way.
Pastor Mike, I really like how well you explain and define words and terms. Sometimes preachers, pastors and leaders are so vague. I remember once a pastor was teaching on anger in a small Bible study. And I asked him, "so what do I do if I have these angry thoughts in my head of all the things I want to do bc I'm mad at this person?" Do you know what he did? He laughed uncomfortably and changed the subject. Recently I found the answer to that question. R E P E N T !!!! Confess my sin to God and turn away from it. Ask him for help to overcome the anger. Saturate my mind on the truth of God's Word. Do you know what happened? God is changing me into a calm, patient, loving, kind woman. I can now see my sin for what it is: sin! Before I justified my actions, blamed my anger on other people and kept on sinning. Venting is sin. That's one of the things I did to validate my anger. Tku, pastor Mike, for your channel. There's so much here to learn and grow. Tku for pointing us back to Jesus. ♥️
It feels to me that, sometimes, when men "gossip", it's not called that even though they do it too! I've heard a lot of gossip from men, not just women. I do believe that gossip can be toxic and sinful. In truth, I'm finding in myself that when I say I'm venting, it actually isn't good, even for me: it usually gets me more worked up and of course doesn't solve the issue like it would if I confronted the person I'm upset with (confrontation can be terrifying, but I'm sure it is the more godly option). But, if we tell truth about someone's behaviour that we're concerned about, or we're seeking advice, is that always gossip? Does slander or unkind words about someone need to be present for it to be gossip? You answered this in part and I like how you differentiated between gossip and seeking counsel, Pastor @Mike Winger. It's true: if we just want to vent and get someone on our side, that's usually gossip and not presenting the issue objectively.
If “venting” involves condemnation, bad mouthing, and no encouragement or problem solving… it’s not constructive and it’s probably gossip. However, if your stating and taking about problems, seeking guidance or Biblical solutions without bad-mouthing… that’s called counseling lol.
Pastor Mike yet again saying the hard truth I need to hear! I’m definitely guilty of “venting” to get whoever on my side. Wow thanks for opening my eyes to this, it sounds so obvious but somehow it wasn’t to me!
Depends what you mean by 'vent'. Could be sharing our frustrations, concerns with a friend for example rather than gossiping about someone else being their back
I think if you vent about serious situations it can help sometimes. It makes the situation more real and easier to process if it's spoken out. I often realise something if I talk about it rather than just have it in my head.
I totally agree with all the boundary lines and "there's a time and a place" for venting to avoid gossiping as Pastor Mike said. I think I have been able to obtain from gossip. It's probably a good side-effect of being aroun my brothers more than my sisters. My bros and I talked about things, but it was more intellectual honesty with the purpose of a solution for harmony then raw emotion of resentment with one another.
This is a nice monologue. And Mike, my wife and I have the same rule. This really isn't a rule we needed to set because we viewed it the same way you did. Our marital problems are ours and I wouldn't want my family to view my wife differently. Of course, when marriage counseling is necessary then it's something husband and wife should seek out. But spouses that constantly bad-mouth each other to other people drive me nuts.
The title is definitly me! I vent when people do me wrong. Not "lady gossip" criticizing and ripping other ladies apart, but needing to talk out what happened. So, this is my comment before listening. Let's see if I have something to learn here.
Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuude. I have been the kind of person to just share anything with anyone and let me tell you people have gotten very upset with me for it... I've definitely hurt myself also by sharing things with people who had bad intentions... So nowadays I constantly wonder "should I talk about this" and I hesitate to be vulnerable especially when someone other than me is involved... Just the other day I was talking to the youth pastor and said I was worried about talking bad about my family to her... I find it very difficult to understand where the "line" is and feel guilty yet frustrated often. I do think it's a very good point you make and a good principle to generally follow to focus on the counsel aspect... Though I sadly have found that people often don't have any counsel for me because situations are so complex... Maybe I just haven't found wise people... 😞
I think something we shouldn't do is talking to someone else about a problem instead of talking with the person we have a problem with. People justify too much how they really need to 'vent'. No, you don't need to. You just don't want to face the person you have a problem with and you want to avoid fighting. Me too. I'm afraid I don't say the right words and make it worse.
Brilliant video. I feel convicted of doing this so often and not even realising how problematic and unbalanced it is to seek biased approval from friends and family. I don't mind admitting that this is going to be a tough habit to break, despite now knowing the truth.
Its no gossip that I absolutely Praise God for bringing Mike into my life. I learn so much and it makes me want to learn more and grow with our Lord. My Allison and I also don't talk about one another to others. We try to pray before contentious discussions. And follow our Fair-fighting rules.
No Mike, we really need to vent. I have one friend, who I talk to when I'm really pissed at work. She'll laugh at me, because although I'm raging mad, it comes out like stand up comedy. When the content from my mouth is really bad; she just listens in silence. She told me once that she understood early on that I'm not really bad mouthing them, but getting my frustrations out. I struggle with mental illness, so it's better to get stuff out in a safe space than act out in public. She listens because she gets that this could go really bad if it's kept in a little longer. I'm not making an excuse, I'm just saying, it helps in the long run
"But the Holy Spirit produces this kind of fruit in our lives: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. There is no law against these things!" Galatians 5:22&23 If you are a follower of Jesus then you have the Holy Spirit living in you. Allow the Spirit to lead you down the right paths and produce these fruits in your life. Quit allowing the flesh to lead you but trust in God. We cannot imagine a better future than what God wants for us, so trust in Him and allow Him to lead. Hopefully this helped and inspired you today. God bless you!
I've been on the receiving end of supposed "venting." To the point where I got essentially kicked out of a friend group simply by requesting that friends don't stay the night at our house on work nights. Somehow the "venting" someone did about that request caused the rest of the friend group seeing me as some big bad villain. And when I confronted the gossiper about this, she basically justified herself by saying, "Well, sometimes I just need to vent. Okay?" Venting is gossiping. Period. If you really need to vent that bad, save it for your therapist.
AMEN. I’ve dealt with a similar situation. Sadly, it was with family members who are also in my Bible study. The “venting” destroyed our Bible study. Lord have mercy.
Thank you! Thank you! Thank you for address this! I watched a family member's marriage dissolve and the background is, the wife would vent to the child and others about her husband. I learned that I cannot disrespect my spouse like this.
I don't know that it's bad, I suppose it could be depending on how they go about it but my wife gets together with friends and talks about her frustrations and I think it's good. They sort out what is normal and help each other think through things. Pretending that all is great 24/7 doesn't do anyone any good. If there is real abuse going on, it can come to light and they can get help. If I behave embarrassingly and now her friends know it, that's on me for the stupid behavior, not on her for talking about it with trusted friends.
I’m a “put out fires, solve the problem, make peace” type of person. I’ve never been good at conversions where everyone is just sitting around complaining. Because I start making a list in my head of how can I help solve this problem and that problem. But some people truly aren’t complaining to get their problem solved. They just get a kick out of complaining. We would get a lot more accomplished if we looked for good and not bad.
I think there has to be precaution. Talk therapy is a very real thing and sometimes you are going to be annoyed with a friend or family members poor choices and you care about them enough that it is stressing you out that they keep making the wrong decision that are harmful to themselves. 1. have a select number of people like three (a family member, your spouse and a friend) and make sure they have the same values as you and make it clear you are going to speak to them about things that bother you and they are not to repeat it to anyone because of your christian values. And say like Mike said (Godly wisdom) have them know that you could be looking for Godly council at the end so that you don't feel that way and their actions don't affect you anymore. 2. Have a limit and self-awareness - are you constantly saying the same story to the same person over and over again for the sake of talking if so you are gossiping despite it not going anywhere and you need to stop. Not only are you wasting your time, you are allowing yourself to be angry in sin. 3. I agree with Mike - when you need to talk about a concern or frustration of your spouse and can't talk to them for some reason or maybe you want to make sure you are thinking clearly, again have a select two or three people who are GODLY, not just your bestfriend from highschool, they need to be part of your fellowship. No matter the intent and how much you share your values, if you choose someone who you know is a godly person - it's your fault when you spoil someone's name becuase of your mouth and lack of self-control.
This is interesting talk. I would like to say that validation is extremely helpful for abusive relationships. Gaslighting makes the abused feel like they are going crazy. "Don't gossip" is used to shut an abused person up. Only when they verbalize the abuse to a friend and have the friend react to it is how they gain courage to make needed change. I've seen it first hand and the mind games are so difficult to see without an outsider's view.
I know what you mean. Fear of dishonoring your spouse has been a killer in abusive situations. But when it's not physical abuse and it's 'just' emotional, verbal, or sexual, you get almost no help from many churches. Worst when the person is in church leadership, related to leaders, or easily likable by others. Feeling soo alone and insulated and silenced you want to take your own life... I pray for anyone in this place. Please don't give up. Speak up to someone even if it's reaching someone outside your community.
I cannot tell you how many times I have been hurt by slander and gossip. If you feel hurt then pray, talk to the person involved but do not "vent". If I was not strong in the faith I could have lost my faith, it really hurts.
Someone above said “I’m learning to vent to God”. We’re never going to be fully or truly known by anyone or have our meets met by anyone except God. Putting that expectation on other people makes them A god. And we know the first commandment is you shall have no other gods before Me.
That deff is where some of the spite comes from. When something happens to me I find it useful sometimes to replay that moment in my head as if it was happening to someone else and I'm the outsider judging what should be said and done. oh actually re-reading your comment I think you're talking about something else (still an interesting point you're making) well I'll just leave this comment here anyway
I think this may apply to grandparents and kids too. Mike saying you can see their reactions to that person is a fruit of the venting...would help the relationships in my family if I didn't vent about my kiddos.
Does our talk show love and grace for our neighbor? Even when we are “venting,” there are ways to express our frustration about someone without tearing them down and sullying their reputation. Best not to say anything if it could possibly hurt them. Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart be acceptable in His sight. That’s always a good place to start before we “vent.”
Venting is absolutely necessary, but not gossip. I only vent to my husband because I know he won't say anything and he always stays neutral. I will not vent to anybody else with the exception of a very carefully selected counselor. But the reason we need to vent is because women generally are built to be more agreeable and passive, which means we're going to internalize the slights against us more often than we're going to face them head on. And, to be honest, that's kind of the way we're expected to deal with it. All of that building up inside eventually has to come out or we'll die of stress, pain, shame, or anger.
I cut out some women in my life because they constantly needed to “vent “ it was hard but having them constantly complain about their relationships and their kids and me trying to correct them lovingly just made them mean towards me mocking my “perfect marriage and perfect kid” it made me bitter and sad it took me months to build up the courage to break the relationship after prayer and God confirming to me that it is time after 28 years of friendship I walked away and dusted of my feet I still pray for them and love them but I have peace and God has brought more mature Christian friends into my life. So I am 100 with Mike on this one women don’t realise how toxic their “small talk or venting” can be and how uncomfortable it might make others and they often do it in a group as if it is a normal thing and if you don’t agree they will mock you
Whenever I start to feel the need to “vent” I always think of “To the woman He said, “Your desire shall be contrary to your husband” In verse 3:16 Genesis. It reminds me to back up, breath and go to God for wisdom. I’m imperfect and still get frustrated with my husband but since finding this verse God has helped me apply it more and more to my life. My hope is to be a woman like in proverbs.
As someone who was recently strongly rebuked by God because of receiving and participating in this very thing I can offer this: If by the end of your "venting" you have shared details about someone that others(plural) should not have been privy too, have shaped people's perceptions of who or what this other person is and people know EXACTLY who you are talking about because you have provided their name, address, phone number, place of employment, maiden and married name, type of car they drive, etc., you are involved in gossip. Please take heed lest you fall because there is a reason why women in particular are warned not to be busybodies given to gossip. Its a tough pill to swallow, but we seem to be especially susceptible to this behavior, although not exclusively, and psychologists confirm this because women tend to be more aggressive relationally. The movie "mean girls" comes to mind and is a great example of art imitating life.
I’d more or less agree with you. But what if someone is asking me my opinion of someone else? If I have a negative opinion of them because they were rude to me, should I just keep my mouth shut? By keeping my mouth shut, that person who asked obviously knows I hold a negative opinion. So even by not answering, I’m still “gossiping”/letting someone else know my true negative feelings about someone else
@@nicvic1717 I see your perspective. If someone is asking your opinion, maybe you can share what they did that caused you to describe them as rude. My experience is with someone who always seems to have negative opinions of people and offers those opinions without anyone asking for them. This person also asks for "advice" on other people while providing identifying markers and, by the end of the conversation, I know far too much about these people. I think the Holy spirit can help you decipher the reason why you are sharing that opinion of the person, but I would consider that it could be wrong, especially if it is your only interaction with them. It may not be the correct position , but I try to consider if my words are building someone up or tearing them down? Is this going to help the person who is asking or is it going to cause harm? It is a fine line, but I think we truly trip into the realm of gossiping more than we are willing to admit.
For me as a woman, venting is when I’m talking about something that directly happened to me or affected me in some way. Gossiping is when I’m talking about someone else’s life or issues. Here’s one view on the difference between venting and gossiping: “Gossip is ill-intentioned and mean-spirited much of the time. Venting, on the other hand, is done to express your frustration about a person or problem.” Question: why is true venting called “gossiping” when women do it, but when men do it, it’s still considered “venting”?
While I totally agree that there is healthy venting, (I think "verbal processing" is actually a better term) but, I think the reason people focus on women in this topic is because of the huge problem women have with cutting down other women. There are multiple studies that show women in particular do statistically have a much higher level of negative socialization going on. Men just don't care about talking about each other that much. It's not a sexist thing to say, it is just true. We don't talk very much about each other because we are more focus on concrete non-social thinking than social abstracts. Do, I think there are men with gossip issues? Absolutely. I've met them but, as with things like physical violence being higher statistically in men, social violence is much higher in women.
In my experience, men “venting” is not at all tolerated, even among peers. If a guy is bringing a frustration to his male friends, his male friends will more often than not either make fun of him, or help come up with solutions, and usually both. Guys are happy to help each other with their problems, but no one wants to hear their mates sob story just to hear it.
@@smithsmithington I have literally been harassed at my job to the point that people see it but have told me they don’t want to speak on it or be brought into it … I was very upset with men at one time for continuously being my abuser and continuously protecting my abuser by deciding not to speak on anything I also met another person who was being treated similarly they told me to “keep my head down” as they “just deal with it” … it’s sad
@@MNIU_ That's really tragic. My wife went through something similar and she and one other person magically lost their jobs when they spoke up about this person. Even her job agency that placed her there said there wasn't a lot they could do without more witnesses. Of course we didn't have the money for a lawyer too.
@spirals 73 the best counsel at the end of the day will come from Gods word. Seek His counsel first. It’s becoming harder and harder to come by Godly older women who have truly godly character and wisdom
Mm... yes and no. It depends on how serious the situation is. I've never felt the need to vent about my husband to a room full of women or even anyone individually. But I have gone sobbing to my mother (also a Christian) once in the past for comfort when I felt really uncertain and conflicted about something in our relationship. So I think it's entirely about how it's done, who the person they're going to is, what the intention of the venting person is, and how emotionally upsetting the situation is
43 years together. We do not speak negatively about one another to others. We just don’t. Even in situations where women are “joking” about their husband’s shortcomings or wrongdoings, it is still advisable to be the one who will only speak positive and edifying words. If there was a problem that one of us needed to discuss, we would go to a trusted Pastor or to a Counselor. Trust in a marriage is an essential. The picture of marriage is one of Christ as our Bridegroom and him loving us as his Bride. I surely don’t need to chip away at Jesus or my husband ☀️🙏🏼
All good advice, Mike. I would like to add that venting can be useful and even healthy when applied properly. When I get so emotionally charged that I can't think rationally or objectively, venting helps to relieve the emotional pressure so I can better analyze the situation and receive counsel. However, applying the former but neglecting the latter is just griping.
The best thing you can do to "vent" go to a room alone, and talk to your heavenly Father. This has refreshed me, brought me closer to God, has given me more wisdom on the situation and also helps me reflect on what I'm doing wrong and the things I need to change. We have a friend who is with us all the time (The Holy Spirit) use him. :D
My father emotionally disowned me when I was a young child, and was a constant bully who managed to oppress me to the point I was afraid to leave my bed because I didn't want to hear the next nasty thing he was going to say to completely crush me that day. I would deeply prefer I never see him again, in this life or the next. Same with my mother, whose abuse truly broke me as a child. I don't know how to mesh this with the commandment to honour my parents. Am I dishonoring my parents by protecting myself from them? Because I was the family scapegoat, all I could do by giving them the Gospel is to convince them it is untrue simply because it has come from my mouth.
“Before you take it to the phone, take it to the throne.” 🙏
Amen lol
Great thing to remember. It can work in other contexts too; I often find myself going to the phone as a distraction and for comfort when I could be spending time with God.
Romans 10:9-11 KJV 9 that if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. ❤❤❤
One of the best things a friend has EVER done for me, was when I texted her in tears because my husband and I had a fight and our son was scheduled to be delivered the following morning. I was SO worried that the entire labor/delivery process would be miserable because of the fight, and she straight up told me, "Stop stressing about it, you married a good man. He's going to be there for you tomorrow and it's going to be a beautiful day." She could have added to the conflict by validating my feelings about what a jerk I thought he was being, but instead she reminded me that at the end of the day, he's a good man. Turns out the next day WAS beautiful and my husband personally delivered our baby. Find you some friends who care more about your marriage than they do about helping you feel self righteous.
Great story, what a wonderful friend.
It’s a blessing to have honest, truthful friends. I think it’s possible to validate your friend’s feelings while simultaneously speaking truth to them as your friend did. Just because a friend is feeling hurt by something that happened with her husband doesn’t mean her feelings are baseless. Likewise, just because she and her husband had an argument doesn’t mean he’s a terrible person who should be verbally bashed behind his back (which is gossiping).
@@nicvic1717 In other words, don’t give advice like a Redditor!
@@Tool0GT92 If anyone is married and have a fight make sure you fix it by the end of the night squash it at your feet don’t let it sink in reminds me of when jesus said “leave your gift there in front of the altar. First go and be reconciled to them; then come and offer your gift.”
Matthew 5:24
So be reconciled before the night ends.
I'm gonna take a page out of your friend's book when it comes to dealing with my best friend and his recent marriage :)
I'm learning to do my "venting" to God, it's changing me.
This is my suggestion, the problem with venting to others is the spread of false information and the risk of false validation of sin.
Venting to God has no such risks, and is well modeled in psalms
@@derpaholic_rex756 Amen!
That is so true! Bringing your hurts and worries to God means that you aren't looking for validation and indignation; he will lift you up when you are humble.
@@timdaniel9644 Tim, that is very biblical!!
Me too.
I think gossip is talking about things that shouldn't be talked about ("Did you hear that apparently Jane's husband was hugging another woman at the hotel last week?") but venting ("I don't know what to do at work, my boss keeps messing up my orders and blaming me for them") is communicating a problem with the intention of seeking help, comfort or counsel. It can be a fine line tho and I struggle with it sometimes.
If it helps, the example you described is seeking council. You opened up with the intention of getting help.
Well that gets confusing. I hear women say all the time "I don't want a solution, I just want to vent." So it's at least partially clear that venting and problem solving are two separate things.
I think we also have to share and keep in my the intention of why we are doing this and be sure to talk about the positive characteristics of that individual and make it clear that this not slander but concern because you see that that person is in the wrong and want to do everything you can to help them but instead they view your criticism as an attack on their personhood.
There’s no excuse for gossip. If i need to vent about my spouse, or seek advice, then I can be vague and diplomatic. I can vague neutral things like, “we had a disagreement” or “I’m concerned about a choice he made.” No need to bad mouth him ever.
Amazing woman
If these are concerns you know you can handle then by all means be vague. But if you actually don't know what to do and you really need help, then you need to open up with the details especially to a trained counselor, because that's the only way they can help you.
When I was young, My Mother told me when someone talks about people in front of you, they talk about you when you are not there. This is so true. It has helped me deal with people. Also the book of Proverbs…the most helpful.
As a woman, I have to say Mike - you hit the nail right on the head. We want to "vent" when we feel wronged and we want someone to hear AND yes validate by siding with us.
People are lying to themselves when they say "I just need to vent." Truthfully, they're experiencing an ongoing issue that has not been addressed in a healthy or productive manner. That needs to be nipped in the bud! If not, the unresolved issue will continue to degrade the relationship.
There’s nothing wrong with having your emotions validated and someone recognizing/acknowledging you’re upset and the reason why , it’s called having an emotional IQ , but likewise it lets the person know they feel seen and hear which otherwise some people are taught their emotions don’t matter and this is when they tend to numb/bottle things in , don’t communicate how they feel about majority of things , or tend to become doormats …
@@MNIU_ There's a thin line between gossip and demonstrating the past events in one's life and/or opening up emotionally.
Most woman that I know have always abused the ability to either confront or cohere with such vulnerable emotions or events of high potency.
That is why one should be utterly vigilant and not subvert to these supposed _'vents'_ but categorically test and examine the claims made, and then proceed to comply.
My aunt & Ive had this debate so many times. She (& many of my friends) insists that we HAVE TO vent or we'll explode! Or "...or it will eat you alive inside".
It just gets worse when i "vent". Telling Jesus works best for me.
NOPE
@@MicheleNichols2 theres some saying:
Before you speak:
1)Is it true?
2)is it kind?
3) is it neccessary?.
As a trained counselor, I'd like to clarify this misconception that people have - that to validate is to pander. That is false. Validating is not the same as pandering. Going alongside a person means you start by understanding their subjective perspective, that's validation, then from there you lead them towards a more objective perspective, that's guidance. This is what makes counseling effective.
I've been guilty of "venting" about my Husband. I've come to understand that venting my emotions, really comes from a place of not feeling heard or understood when I am hurting. I've been working on my prayer life, and taking my hurts to the Lord which lessens the urge to vent to friends considerably.
Wise
Yes!! THIS.
So many times when I have felt like Venting to friends about my life and family.. I just prayed about it and opened my heart to God. I can always feel Him listen and by the end I'm calm and have a general sense of what to do. He's the best!! ❤️
Take this small story from Saint Augustine's Confessions, for what it's worth. I don't mean to insinuate anything about your marriage by using it as parallel, as I doubt it's what the woman in his recounting had to deal with, but the advice is worth keeping in mind for all marriages.
Saint Augustine recounts knowing a devout woman who had a husband who fits the stereotype of the loud, angry, man who comes home and is very demanding of their spouse. Which leads to the obvious. Abuse in either greater or smaller fashion. Everyone they knew assumed he had to be hurting her, and were continually shocked when this turned out not to be true. When she finally shared WHY such a man would never hit her, she confessed this. When her husband would get upset or angry and be loudly demanding, she simply obeyed. If he was being unreasonable, she'd bow to his version what was going on, she'd let him have his way. Quietly do her duty as wife. Then wait for him to calm down. Once her husband was no longer angry, upset, riled up? THEN she would confront him about the issue. Tell him how she saw things. Bring up the mistake he was making. How he was being unfair. This.. apparently worked. Very well. Though till such a time, again, she would act as the dutiful quiet wife.
Typical viewpoint even then would be to get out from under such a man, fight back, or even simply escape. Confessions confirms the thoughts other wives had on that subject. Ones who had similar husband who WERE abused. Things aren't any different now. So much for the romantic view of a time when marriages weren't like today. Through meek wisdom and loyal service she was not only able to sooth her husband but guide him out of his error as well. Have you ever had your cake and ate it too?
I confess I envy the self control and patience such a woman had to have had. I can only imagine she was very close to Christ. Meek wisdom and loyal service is the exact kind of behavior he prescribed as a cure against the world's ills. We just have trouble seeing why it works sometimes.
@@elizabethp4064 A narcissist specifically? I have never had to deal with one on a personal level, but scripture contains the cure for all ills if you're willing to see it. Know this, though. Not all cures are going to be sweet. Much of what is expected of us is blatantly unfair from a personal perspective. Many reject sections of Christ's gospel because they consider it impossible to live how he demands. Yet you cannot part out Christ. It's all or nothing.
What needs to be done may not be fun or fair to us, but it can keep situations from devolving. Or even improve them if we have some persistence. Being that beacon of light Christ wants us to be may come with people trying to tear it down. Maybe even people close to us. The woman in Saint Augustine's story very persistently loved her husband even in her method of correcting him. That had to have been very difficult, and I imagine only faith saw her through doing it. I doubt it was any more fun handling her drunk husband than it was for anyone else in such a situation.
I save this for last because referring to it outside the context of being loving won't work. Psychology does have some methods for what NOT to do in relation to certain broken personality types. Ways of not falling in to certain traps. May be worth poking in to.
But as always, Christ comes first. Otherwise it's just you trying to be the 'winner' in the equation.
@Sarah R and Calamity Chaela I love this! It took me years, but I've found this to be true too. When I need counsel, go to wise counsel. When I need to vent, I journal my prayers to God and gain clarity, and often develop exactly the outline I need to take to be understood when I talk about the issue with the person I need to work the issue out with.
Interesting topic. In our men's group we encourage everyone to be open, authentic and vulnerable. In doing so men really open up about problems in daily life. This sometimes has us discuss our marriages, our kids, and other people that are part of the story. There is a fine line between venting and gossip. It also let's other men know it's not just ourselves that struggle with some problems.
I think there's confusion over what gossip and rumors are. I think gossiping is more like talking about rumors while spreading rumors is more like actively creating them and telling everyone you know. "Gossip" would have been an important tool for traditional women anyway. Women needed to be very social in these village settings because they all took care of each other's children ect... Information like a verbally abusive husband could allow for a women to be more cautious with allowing her kids around that household. There's of course many other potential situations where it's useful.
What's not useful is talking about things you don't know firsthand or didn't got from the source. Those are rumors and akin to baring false witness. We think of gossip today (some do) as idle chat in general. That would mean talking about sports, weather, new upcoming automobiles, CEOs stepping down ect... is gossip. News in general would be nothing but gossip.
Men talking about their home life and issues just can't be a bad thing in general. I won't accept that until it's proven to me by Greek scholars. Even then I'll question the true definition of the words used.
@@CynHicks I understand that, I think its what's within the confines of the group. Our group is very open. So as an example some men struggle with porkpork, list, drinking and other such things. It becomes gossip when it leaves the confines of the group. If someone goes home and starts talking to the wives it becomes gossip and unhealthy. I think it has to do with the intentions of the conversations of the men have inside the group. When it goes outside the group it becomes unhealthy unless it has a safety concern....thanks for the input.
@@flint2080 Agreed. It should be clear that any communication with the intent or possibility to unjustly harm or embarrass someone is not Christ like. You can call that gossip I suppose (and people do) but I'm not sure there shouldn't be a better defined word for it.
My real point is that the English word "gossip" and it's modern definition must be too broad for a perfect translation.
Gossiping is not just rumors,
ever hear of the telephone game, and how a message can be drastically distorted as it is passed around even if the base is true and benign
so just gossiping or just venting is starting rumors even if unintentional
The men's group flint sounds that it isnt even about truly venting but SEEKING ACTIONABLE ADVICE, but sometimes those involved may not know a good solution and that is when it turns into just venting. The key is that information brought into a space NEVER leaves that space, the only ones to share are those DIRECTLY involved.
Even if one is directly involved it can still be gossip, if the truth (objective truth, as it would be perceived by heaven) is distorted in the presentation
I think "Bible study" groups have become more of venting sessions than learning and living biblical truths. We've turned Sunday school into codependent therapy sessions.
Talking about your problems is not gossip, talking about other peoples problems is.
Some people use the word "vent" to mean exactly what Mike is saying we should do to share that elicits wise counsel.
Others use "vent" to mean the type of talking to justify their emotion even if its wrong.... unloving, prideful judgemental or hateful. They want to be "validated" even if they are wrong.
That is what becomes flattery and gossip.
I have never once heard someone use the word "vent" to mean what mike is saying. I am from alberta canada, where are you from that people use that word in both ways?
Well said. “Vent” has different meanings depending on who you’re talking to. I personally use the word “vent” to describe moments when I’m discussing and explaining how and why I’m feeling a certain way.
Yes. I've used "venting" to mean just talking through things and processing. Often I don't even need them to say anything, but in telling the story out loud I can see more clearly what's happening and how I should respond. I am definitely a verbal processer, so it's different if you're more like my husband who needs quiet time alone to mentally process.
This highlights why it is so important to define words when having a discussion like this. You can see where as soon as they started talking about what they meant around 3:15 the disagreement about venting became an agreement on looking for counsel and not slander/gossip.
I’m not saying anyone here is wrong, I’m just sharing my opinion on the definition of venting.
In the physical world vent just means to get rid of excess heat. If we take it in that sense, then I don’t like using the word to describe honestly looking for advice. I think most accurately, venting would be just expressing your emotions to help yourself calm down. This can be done to another person, or to nothing in particular, as long as you know it’s actually going to calm you down instead of stoking the fire.
If I’m right, that would mean that venting isn’t looking for wise counsel, because for that you’re looking for healthy fuel, but it also isn’t necessarily seeking validation, because for that you might just be looking for the hottest burning fuel. True venting is just getting rid of the heat so you can think rationally and make good decisions about what kind of fuel you need.
As a women I will say that we feel like we NEED to vent but in actuality we WANT to vent . Mike is correct that most times in these situations we just want someone to be on our side. We are not seeking real counsel on how to fix the issue.
2 added things is that my sister NEVER has said one bad thing to me about her husband. I'm sure she gets frustrated with him or he does silly things but I've never heard it from her. Also, a person I know who is divorced never Vents to their small children about the other spouse. That would take alot. There is a reason they got divorced and couldn't live together anymore but their kids will never hear gossip about mommy or daddy.
Mike you are so right on !!!
This concept is so foreign to me lol. Both of my parents vent to each of us kids about each other since they’re divorced but both honestly I feel like a lot of things would be better if everyone did this :)
Idk, I have a bit of an issue with condemning all "venting" unless you are getting specific counsel for an issue. I feel like emotional support is also a valid thing to want sometimes, and that doesn't always mean you are getting an answer or a solution to "fix" a problem. Sometimes just a hug and someone telling you aren't crazy and they understand how you feel can be very comforting.
I fully agree that there are many times that we want to vent that we really probably shouldn't, and it would be gossip, but I just disagree with the blanket statements as if it's all bad unless you are "fixing" something.
@@CassTeaElle I'm not going to get dogmatic about this issue, especially regarding women, but I tend to fall on Mike's side of this. So as I was thinking about the perceived need to vent (and guys say we need it too) it occurred to me that if pure *venting* was all we needed, we could go outside and do it in the woods, and it would have the same effect. Otherwise, it would seem to me like validation would be what we are really getting out of it. I haven't screamed in the woods in a very long time, but it seems it was a little cathartic, but not as much as venting to a person.
What do you think?
I see an ongoing process in this. Others are saying venting is good and even necessary, but I wonder if it's not an inferior solution we justify because it feels good, and causes a temporary release of tension. It sounds to me like the world's wisdom. which is usually opposed to God's. After decades of advising people to voice their frustrations to the one who's frustrating you, psychologists are starting to notice that it does more harm than good. Turns out "a soft answer turns away wrath" was the better method all along but we thought we knew better. We're told that it's critical to let your spouse know what you will be expecting from the relationship, and then hold them accountable if they fall short. (the 50/50 rule) God says to give 100% and not demand anything. "Love is longsuffering and kind, does not promote itself, does not insist on it's own way." That's way harder. But I've seen it heal marriages.
Anyway, I think if we indulge in feel-good 'cures' like venting, it keeps us from dealing with our issues on a deeper level and makes us *weaker* emotionally. To voluntarily face the frustration internally, and let go of it, will make us emotionally *stronger*. (ask me how I know : ) I think it's a question of building strength into a marriage instead of insisting on our right to vent and be validated, which weakens it.
God's way is always harder, but it actually works. And makes US into better people instead of trying to make THEM into better people. My ten cents...
@@josephmiller997 well, obviously that's true if by "venting" we mean just speaking our feelings aloud. But that's not what anybody means by venting.
Seeking support, encouragement, a second brain to help you process something, or yes, even validation, is not automatically bad and sinful.
Gossip is the retelling of something you heard about others that does not involve/impact you AND the person you are telling. It is intended to pass judgment on others. Venting is the telling of something that does involve/impact you OR the person you are telling. It is intended to resolve a problem with others.
I think it’s important to distinguish validating someone’s irritation and validating someone’s emotions. Women thrive on having their emotions validated, even before wanting counseling.
This! This is the reason why Mike and the woman were disagreeing on women “needing” to vent. They were both right.
Men do, too. It's that the emotions men want validated are socially different than the ones women want validated. I say socially because men and women, especially in the church, are taught what are acceptable and unacceptable emotions to outwardly display, even though we all have the same emotions.
I was always told (by my dad); "If you are neither the problem nor the solution to the problem, it's gossip"
I'm enjoying these clips from the marriage conference! Very thankful to have a channel like yours that is always a good influence. I've been struggling to a point that I've questioned my salvation, but I'm not giving up and I know God won't give up on me, even when things seem hopeless. Very thankful for your content, insight and direction.
I'll pray for you Sara! Faith in Christ is always the first response to any kind of struggle like that. Everything else flows out of that and nothing else can replace that. God bless you sister.
Scripture describes the church like a flock of sheep. Sometimes sheep can become lost, but they are still part of the flock. They are just apart.
I don't agree with the idea that if you're doubting your salvation then it automatically means you're not saved. Doubt is a human condition. Just remember that even if you're not sure, God is. He knows his own even when his own feel unsure. When we belong to God, scripture tells us that our names are written in the Lamb's book of life.
Now you need to believe that God has an eraser to scrub names out after the fact if you believe that it's possible to have your salvation reversed, once affirmed in God's eyes. Don't worry over your doubts. He does what we can't.
Hello Sara, I think I have come across you on another UA-cam channel, but if not I'm sorry for mentioning, but I pray and hope that you are safe in the Lord, the Bible says that if you confess with your tongue and believe in your heart that Jesus Christ died for your sins and rose from the dead, then you shall be saved.
Jesus said that He will never let go of his children and he that comes to him will never thirst, May God bless you, sister.
John 10:28
King James Version
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
There’s a difference between venting and processing. Many women I know really do need to verbally process through things, and then they get to that point you described where you either see sin you didn’t, you understand your heart or someone else’s, etc. Big picture, processing can be helpful to get on the root of an issue or situation. Venting is just sharing feelings, which like you said doesn’t achieve anything that’s praiseworthy.
Verbally processing in a healthy way is fantastic.
Exactly. I love Mike, but I feel like his take on this is too black and white. I totally appreciate the conviction to be cautious about gossip, but I don't think processing aloud with someone is always wrong, nor do I believe it's always wrong to want a little bit of emotional validation. Gaslighting is a powerful thing, and to explain a situation to an objective third party and have them yell you you aren't crazy for being hurt by something that was hurtful, can be hugely important sometimes.
He said that the validation of irritation often gets you more riled up, but for me it's usually the opposite. When I've been able to process something with someone and have them either validate what I already thought or help me understand something I didn't before, that's usually exactly what I need to be able to let it go and move on.
I definitely need to verbally process. My church just split, and I have been so careful to not spread negativity, but sometimes I have to have an outside perspective. My brother, who is trained in Biblical counseling, has been such a rock for me through this because I know he will be absolutely truthful, and faithful to admonish and encourage.
@@CassTeaElle
You’re misunderstanding Mike’s case here. He said you need to find people who will both support you and convict you. He never said your counselors should always tell you that you’re the bad guy.
It sounds like your scenario is what Mike thinks is the ideal scenario. Your counselors tell you what they think you need to hear, whether it’s good or bad, and your behavior is healthy as well, because you aren’t afraid to hear that you may be part of the problem. Obviously I don’t know how emotional you are, but it’s okay to seek out counsel in a fit of emotion as long as you’re willing to listen to whatever counsel you’re given. That’s the difference with venting: with venting you’re only looking for one response.
I do think it’s the role of a best friend to be able to communicate deep thoughts and feelings. Gossip is wrong but needing someone to talk about personal things to help with processing a situation is needed, nothing wrong with that.
Absolutely, but it might also depend on the individual person/relationships. Some 'best friends' feel like they need to validate you and your actions in order to stay your best friend, and that would not be a healthy kind of feedback you get from them. It would _feel_ good for sure, but it would not open your eyes to the flaws you perhaps have yourself - rather the opposite.
Mike wow….. wisdom is like a wrecking ball is it not. The air got thick I thought my connection was bad. Thank you so much for being a messenger to bless us with the wisdom of the Jesus Christ. Man you just dont know so you will have to take my word for it but God is working it right now everywhere more than I have been able to notice ever before.
Great breakdown of the difference between venting during counselling & gossip and/or slander Mike. The problem is where to access Christian counselling? Christian psychologists are few, and are generally out of the average person's price range. Ideally, counsellors should be found within the church, but I've not found one who has any experience with one of my battles, including mental health. And yet I've met so many other Christians with "mental health" issues ranging from depression to psychotic disorders within the church. There's a real need for affordable Christian counselling, and in my experience that need is not being met
I'm hoping to be a Christian counselling psychologist.
IMO, the difference between gossiping and venting is that the former is talking about people to damage their reputation, while venting is just talking about your feelings to get them off your chest.
While I certainly think intent matters, what if your intent is to talk about your feelings, but the effect on other people is still to damage the subject's reputation?
Give it to God first ❤
I think she’s right about venting though. She’s talking about just saying things, not necessarily gossip. Some people literally can’t think without talking. So neutral venting, fine. One-sided venting, not good.
A fool gives full vent his anger, but wise man keeps himself under control. Proverbs 29:11
"His anger" are two important qualifying words. "Venting" as we use it in our modern context doesn't necessarily mean to speak out of anger. It means, most broadly, to share emotional troubles with another person.
Sharing an emotional burden/seeking counsel without slandering others is quite possible. It is a better choice than not sharing, in many a case; if we never "vent" in this broader sense, how could our Christian brothers and sisters provide us with support, direction, and correction if need be when we are internally struggling?
The worst is when you have a mother that “vents” to you about your dad. My mom would do that to us growing up and it was awful. She didn’t tell us about their sex life or anything thank goodness but still it caused a lot of resentment towards my father for many many years
Or sometimes the mother will vent to her daughters about another sibling giving her trouble. Turning her daughters against that sibling. As was the case with me. Its important to always see to it you turn your children's hearts toward each other not away. When you pass away all they will have is each other.
This is so easy for a parent to do, not realizing what she's doing to the child. Great example.
That’s how children are brainwash
My mum did that but also included about there sex life. My relationship with my father is very strained.
@@Nikitaxo24 You need to fix that. Your mother put those sentiments into your head. Nothing your father does to anyone should alter your love for him.
I try not to gossip, but I do feel the need to vent at times. It's usually about non-believers. Just being honest. Try having your mother-in-law live with you for 20 years. You will need to vent 😇
The wounds of a friend bring healing...I have one friend I can truly vent to because she will always give godly counsel.
Venting is necessary. What determines whether it's venting vs. gossip is the motive. Does the one venting genuinely want resolution? That's why God has a spirit of counsel. You're mixing the two.
amen, I was just thinking the SAME thing as I came across your comment
However we might conceal or disguise a matter of gossip, God knows EXACTLY what our true motives are at any given moment - even if we don't. The moment our interest in speaking about somebody isn't with a heart for God's very best for them, then we are venturing into gossip territory. Gossip is a terrible thing in as much as it's so easily justified by the person/s doing it, thus compounding their sin. At its very worst, gossip likes to wrap itself in a cloak of prayer.
Loved this. It’s a little gem to take home and really think about…. A good biblical counsellor is what our hearts should be - not gossipers. Thanks Mike. You really brought it across perfectly! That’s how my husband and I sees it as well. How wonderful for your wife to still go to her parents for counsel. Wow!!! God bless 💕🙏🏻
I try to save my venting for alone times with the Father. He perfectly holds me accountable and counsels.
Amen ! I agree wholeheartily with you.
Wow, Mike is so good at staying the course on his teaching even when someone is pushing back. I need to learn how to do that. He kindly stayed the course in affirming no, you DON'T need to vent.
Love the biblical reasoning. Yeah, most often we want our friends on our side. But we vent about bad not the good things. But maybe if I had someone to vent with I wouldn't have stayed in the emotionally abusive relationship with my ex husband. I needed God but I hadn't found him yet.
True. "Venting" can be confused with opening up to reach out for help
Shalom man of God and many blessings to you, to your beautiful wife and families (personal/ministries).
When women or girls use venting as an outlet, they have to make sure that the structure of the conversation is healthy and is built around the process of bringing peaceful resolve to the issues discussed. Because it is easy for venting to go into gossip mode and into the mode of slander. But it is helpful to have women in the posture as "watchmen" so the conversation can be protected from any unfruitful conduct. So venting is not harmful. It is only harmful when the structure of it goes unprotected by the persons involved. Shalom
Honestly, Mike Winger, you are one of the most wise and humble person I have ever seen!!! May God continue to bless you with wisdom and understanding of His Word to help your brothers and sisters in the Body of Christ.
I guess I'm one of those rare girls who hates gossip, even back when I was an unbeliever. in school I was the main gossip topic of girl group's in class and was bullied by them. So I used to be with guys mostly throughout school life to escape the drama. It's huge problem in women I've noticed, idk why. Being a girl even I never understood this. But again, it's not about degrading one gender and lifting another, both guys and girls sin in this area. Mostly towards the same gender
Unfortunately I've witnessed guys gossiping as well, and bullying others.
@@heavnxbound of course , both genders sin. No one's better than the other, just stated my own experience. usually bullying occurs in between same gender folks, if you're guy then you're of course likely to be bullied by dudes
All 3 of my sisters each are annoyed with other women and all chose to have mainly male friends too.
Same here. I've never talked bad about my husband to anyone. And when I got pregnant I started to cut out the unhealthy people. But it's a good thing that I did because it ended up being a high risk pregnancy.
I think that, like almost every bad thing that we do, it’s a corruption of something good. Women and girls tend to be more social and want to be part of a group. That can be good because it’s a way of keeping the community informed and is an important trait for fostering relationships with people. Men would be terrible at this because we don’t talk like that with each other. You could say that godly women are a communication network for the local body of believers, sending and receiving information for their households. The corruption is a bit like the mainstream media. People react more strongly to salacious details and tawdry secrets more than they do to things that are wholesome and good, so women are actually incentivized to gossip and spew this venom because they get more attention. This only exacerbated by things like reality tv and soap operas, both of which are overwhelmingly watched by women as opposed to men, where this behavior is seen as good.
I think there are people that think out loud or process things by talking. So this would be considered venting, but this can easily become gossip for sure.
I think we need to understand the difference between gossip and venting. Because if you have a burden and need to tell someone because it lifts a burden off your shoulders, then I think you should tell a person in confidence.
If it's a personal struggle then yes. If it's about someone else, then no.
When we have a pressing problem with a person that can't be solved, don't be ashamed to seek wise counsel. But do he sure to vet the counselor, because a gifted one will never propagate slander or build you up in unjust accusations. Your friends are not likely to be those gifted counselors.
It's always good to bring out irritation rather than keeping it up and becomes resentment.
I love Mike, but I don't fully agree with him on this one. There can be a difference between gossiping and venting. Venting CAN be gossip, but it can also not be. Sometimes it is difficult to see the line, so it's always good to err on the side of caution and to be careful not to be gossiping, but I don't agree with the blanket idea that "venting is bad."
Honestly, I really do think this is partially a male/female misunderstanding. Because the fact that he says "when I vent, nothing is really fixed" is such a typical man thing to say. lol men tend to always want to fix things, and if they don't see it as fixing the situation, then they don't understand why it is needed. But women sometimes need emotional support and encouragement, and it's not always about having the situation fixed. It's just about knowing you aren't walking through it alone.
I fully agree that gossip is bad and that we all (myself included) probably do it way more than we realize. But I just also think Mike is sort of thinking like a man here and just doesn't quite understand.
And when it comes to "validating my irritations," I understand the danger he's talking about, but there is also such a thing as gaslighting, and it can be comforting to just have someone tell you you're not crazy for feeling a certain way. Personally, for me that usually doesn't get me more stirred up, it actually does the exact opposite. It helps me to be able to let it go.
So yeah, idk. I see his perspective, but I think he is just only looking at it one specific way and there are many other perceptions that are different.
EDIT: I just want to clarify that when I talk about venting, I'm usually picturing venting TO my husband about a situation, not venting to other people about my husband. I really almost never do that. I think that's a really bad idea and can cause a lot of problems for a number of reasons. So I fully agree, when it comes to venting to others about your spouse, don't do that unless you are really in a serious situation that requires external counsel.
It would help a great deal if the term ‘venting’ was defined, so everyone knows exactly where the starting line is.
As said in other comments, verbally processing could be ‘venting’. Gossiping could be ‘venting’.
A clear definition when confronting a topic of this magnitude requires explanation as to where we are starting from
Mike, that really spoke to my heart. As a pastor of a small church, I am bound by law to make no mention of anything said In private as no doubt are you. For me, this is an awesome responsibility; serious as a heart attack - or terminal cancer, if you will. Once being many years in a congregation in San Diego which collapsed, it later came out that the pastor was sharing personal private information among those whom he counseled. These things should nnever be! God bless you in your ministry and for your videos which are an erstwhile inspiration, true spiritual manna. Love from Norway, brother!
That's a good point about looking for validation and solidifying negative thoughts about someone. We should be seeking out good counsel that moves us toward peace. In a way, I think wanting to "vent" is looking for sympathy when we're going through a hard time (just as with other issues in life), but we have to think wisely about the people we are going to- whether they are going to actually help, or if they are going to add to the problem.
Thank you Pastor Mike for pointing out the importance of giving trustworthy counselors the full picture. I agree, letting them see the good and bad of ALL sides is the best way to help counselors most clearly understand what's really happening. Your highlight on this factor is spot on. 👍🏻
The "venting" thing is genuinely tricky, because it's so commonly accepted as permissible. But I think yours is a good take on it. We tend to carve out space for certain actions because they gratify a strongly felt impulse, and somehow this puts them in a category of necessity instead of choice. The human person is seen as a balloon, that either gets vented out or over-inflates to the point of bursting. And there is certainly something to be said about not simply suppressing and ignoring struggles and passions, but that doesn't mean that every felt impulse must inevitably be gratified, or that there is guaranteed to be some healthy and God-honoring way to gratify it. Lust, for example, can be a strongly felt urge, but there isn't a God-honoring way to exercise lust, nor must every impulse to lust be somehow exercised in order to stay healthy. Sometimes this very idea becomes an excuse for behaviors like pornography; the impulse seems to build up over time, and a person can convince themselves that it is simply a matter of time before they gratify it. The same seems to be true for gossip. I might feel a strong impulse to speak strongly and unlovingly about another person, but that doesn't make it good, or a fact of life, nor is there an amount of annoyance at which that action somehow becomes pleasing to God. Rather, you find ways to work through and conquer those temptations by the self-control and wisdom of the Spirit. And very much with the counsel of friends, which also is a gift of God.
That is so insightful, and I appreciate it. Thank you for sharing.
There is a God-honoring way to satisfy lust-it’s called being married. Lust does not automatically equate to sinfulness; it’s literal definition is simply “intense sexual desire”. Married couples can and actually SHOULD feel that emotion toward one another. This is one of the main themes of Song of Solomon. The two characters are in lust for one another but it’s beautifully between man and his wife.
@@TamiaDunlap I'm kinda mixed on that. If we define lust as you say (a dictionary definition is often as fine as any, but there's nothing authoritative about it as its function is descriptive of common usage and not prescriptive of all usage), then I grant that that outlet is available for married people, but obviously not for single people. Those unmarried people addressed by Paul in 1 Corinthians, for example, do not have that option and would be affected by the dynamic I have described above. It's also worth noting, however, that the word "lust" is often used by many in the Christian tradition, both nowadays and in history, to describe a sinful form of desire that is always wrong, even in the context of marriage. Either way, the goal of mentioning lust was to illustrate my original point, so while I suppose I might have picked a vice with less exception, I think it still illustrates the point. But I appreciate your point and it is fair to mention.
@@brandonwhitaker8468
Thank you for your reply.
Respectfully, your reply seems to be an unnecessarily convoluted way to simply say that you were using the word “lust” colloquially. Yes, colloquially, lust may mean unbridled passion AND following through with it (in the context of fornication) but only because humans lack self-control, especially adult males. This is why one of the fruits of the spirit is self-control rather than celibacy. Lust is a natural reaction to sexual stimuli and if your spouse is being sexually alluring, not getting aroused would actually be problematic. The Biblical view is not that anything body is bad and anything spirit is good (rather that’s Gnosticism), the Biblical view is instead that humans consistently choose to distort the passions and pleasures given to us by seizing them or embarking upon them unhealthily. Happiness is amazing; hurting others in order to be happy is not. It’s the same thing with lust & sex. They’re not dirty or sinful in and with-of themselves-they are simply easily degraded and poorly acted upon.
I understood your point, definitely, and think it was a good one.
@@TamiaDunlap I appreciate the response, and as far as convoluted responses are concerned I am often guilty as charged. But I was not trying to encompass the act of fornication in my use of the term lust, so it appears that my wording was not only superfluous but even inadequate, for which I apologize.
Please correct me if I've misunderstood you, but it seems like you are implying that the only sexual sin is that which the body commits, and that a person who keeps themselves from physically acting out in sexual sin has avoided it. But this is not what Jesus teaches in the sermon on the mount (see Matt. 5:28). I agree with you that the Scriptures do not teach the Gnostic rejection of all things physical, and I do not mean to espouse it. I would simply suggest that there is a sin of lust which is entirely internal and does not need to lead to fornication in order to be sin. I am not saying that attraction is a sin, or that the rightful intimacy between husband and wife is a sin. But I would follow the teaching of Jesus, as well as in much of Scripture, that the desire's of one's heart can be themselves sinful without being physically acted upon.
Is there a distinction between venting and lamenting? Was Job "venting" to his friends? Or was he lamenting? When I hear, "sometimes I just have to vent", I think it means people need to get off their chest how they feel regarding their situations, to express openly the pain and frustration they've been holding in. They need to lament. Now, "going on a rant" is a whole different situation.... That's more like gossip in my opinion. But I suppose some people say, "I need to vent", when what they really want to do is go on a rant about someone or something. 🤷
I 100% agree with Mike! Venting is so damaging and can lead to grumbling or gossip. Opening up about issues with a humble attitude can be ok, verbally processing when you are confused can be good, but venting isn’t a need.
You’re 100% on point Mike. I wholly agree with you. I sincerely wish women would stop justifying gossip as something other than what it is. Gossipers aren’t trustworthy as far as I believe. One thing I have learned, is that you can’t talk bad about someone that you are praying genuinely for good for them. I pray. That’s always best. I think of gossip as poison. It’s destructive. And slander is serious to God just like other sin. It speaks volumes of the person who’s gossiping heart. I avoid gossipers. Just not healthy. It goes against so many biblical principles and I think people are desensitized to this sin because it’s so prevalent in our cultures.
It’s interesting, this one topic seems so widely and easily justified it’s almost scary. Like playing word games to get around the true meaning of something and give into our flesh. I never really thought about it before, but this feels like a topic we should ALL be a little more weary around, because it doesn’t feel as dangerous as the other “bigger” sins we see every day. Similar to like gluttony or pride. But when you use phrases like “well sometimes you just need to ‘blank’” or “it’s a ‘blank’ thing” you almost use your own “wisdom” to stop yourself from hearing what the Bible has to say on the topic.
Pastor Mike, you nailed it. Thank you for revealing this in great wisdom and clarity and calling out venting for what it is. This is rightfully convicting.
I vent to my best friend, but she is a Godly person. And she doesn't try either side, she tries to understand and just listens.
I vent to my husband about my mom. She often says very hurtful things that leave me in tears and I don't know what the other options are (she refuses to see a family counsellor or talk to the pastor about it). I'm high functioning autistic and so is my son and her criticisms are about how, if I was a better mother, he would be normal. I need someone to talk to about it and don't see what's wrong with venting to my husband. We've also been getting therapy even though my mom refuses to go. But I can't just keep it to myself because I end up having a breakdown. I think that sharing everything (even venting) with your spouse is ok because you are one and what effects one of you effects the other.
Venting about your spouse would be a different story, but I honestly don't know what I would say if I had to vent about him...
Yes, you should be able to tell your husband - I sure do when my mom is like that.
I think the operative question that mike is working at is if you are looking for spiritual support and advice, or if you are looking for blind agreement.
If you are venting to your husband but are really just looking for a yes man, or if you really want someone to support you in both love and in truth.
I would also note the one flesh argument here. I could be pretty easily convinced venting to your spouse is not gossip because you are one flesh.
I agree with everything and thank you. BUT I'm in the trenches of toddlerhood and its rough over here. So I just truly need to vent about the little things like my daughter doesn't want to nap but if she doesn't, she's irritable and easily upsets and then cue the infamous tantrums. Which might have been avoided or more easily de-escalated if she had more focus/energy to listen/communicate... etc etc blah blah ...
YOU SEE ?! Some people really do need to vent sometimes! Because she's a handful and it's developmental and I've tried everything - therefore- no counsel can be given that hasn't already been given or tried, no counsel is needed. I just genuinely can go on with motherhood if I've felt less alone by having someone listen to my issues without feeling the need to react or help me. Just listen and maybe give virtual hugs lol.
In fact even just writing his has helped me a little, knowing that somewhere someone out there some day MIGHT read this and even if its months or years later. I will feel like I had a voice and that's enough.
I don't think it's gossip when you do stuff like that :)
@spirals 73 haha true thank you!
@@moriahw3947 thanks for the validation! I agree it's not gossip if it's done respectfully. I've seen some moms trash their kids reputation for the sake of "venting". No matter the age, 1 yr old or 11 yr old or 31 yr old. I'm a big believer that our children's personhood and privacy should be considered before venting. I guess because it's a trigger for me from Watching my mom trash my name my whole life.
Ken Sande says something like “motherhood is “speed sanctification” for mothers-24/7 training in patience and every other virtue” 😉
Every mom gets what you are going through. It’s crazy hard, but God will help if you keep seeking Him.
Hang in there!
You were made for this. ❤
Gossip is when you discuss other people's personal affairs that don't involve you. Talking about your own marriage isn't gossip. Just be careful who you share such details with.
What if you're discussing your marriage partner's sexual issues or annoying personal habits or hygiene? That would definitely be gossip, and hurtful and embarrassing for your partner.
That is gossip- spiritual oppression, abuse that needs to be addressed by the pastors and church and other serious things need to be shared in a biblical way.
Pastor Mike, I really like how well you explain and define words and terms. Sometimes preachers, pastors and leaders are so vague. I remember once a pastor was teaching on anger in a small Bible study. And I asked him, "so what do I do if I have these angry thoughts in my head of all the things I want to do bc I'm mad at this person?" Do you know what he did? He laughed uncomfortably and changed the subject. Recently I found the answer to that question. R E P E N T !!!! Confess my sin to God and turn away from it. Ask him for help to overcome the anger. Saturate my mind on the truth of God's Word. Do you know what happened? God is changing me into a calm, patient, loving, kind woman. I can now see my sin for what it is: sin! Before I justified my actions, blamed my anger on other people and kept on sinning. Venting is sin. That's one of the things I did to validate my anger. Tku, pastor Mike, for your channel. There's so much here to learn and grow. Tku for pointing us back to Jesus. ♥️
It feels to me that, sometimes, when men "gossip", it's not called that even though they do it too! I've heard a lot of gossip from men, not just women. I do believe that gossip can be toxic and sinful. In truth, I'm finding in myself that when I say I'm venting, it actually isn't good, even for me: it usually gets me more worked up and of course doesn't solve the issue like it would if I confronted the person I'm upset with (confrontation can be terrifying, but I'm sure it is the more godly option). But, if we tell truth about someone's behaviour that we're concerned about, or we're seeking advice, is that always gossip? Does slander or unkind words about someone need to be present for it to be gossip? You answered this in part and I like how you differentiated between gossip and seeking counsel, Pastor @Mike Winger. It's true: if we just want to vent and get someone on our side, that's usually gossip and not presenting the issue objectively.
Men gossip SO much!!! Mainly about other men, or sometimes women that they don’t like. It’s interesting that it never gets a label.
If “venting” involves condemnation, bad mouthing, and no encouragement or problem solving… it’s not constructive and it’s probably gossip.
However, if your stating and taking about problems, seeking guidance or Biblical solutions without bad-mouthing… that’s called counseling lol.
Pastor Mike yet again saying the hard truth I need to hear! I’m definitely guilty of “venting” to get whoever on my side. Wow thanks for opening my eyes to this, it sounds so obvious but somehow it wasn’t to me!
Depends what you mean by 'vent'.
Could be sharing our frustrations, concerns with a friend for example rather than gossiping about someone else being their back
I think if you vent about serious situations it can help sometimes. It makes the situation more real and easier to process if it's spoken out. I often realise something if I talk about it rather than just have it in my head.
I totally agree with all the boundary lines and "there's a time and a place" for venting to avoid gossiping as Pastor Mike said.
I think I have been able to obtain from gossip. It's probably a good side-effect of being aroun my brothers more than my sisters. My bros and I talked about things, but it was more intellectual honesty with the purpose of a solution for harmony then raw emotion of resentment with one another.
From personal experience, when in an emotionally abusive relationship, “venting” prevents us from thinking we are crazy.
Yes!!!
This is a nice monologue. And Mike, my wife and I have the same rule. This really isn't a rule we needed to set because we viewed it the same way you did. Our marital problems are ours and I wouldn't want my family to view my wife differently. Of course, when marriage counseling is necessary then it's something husband and wife should seek out. But spouses that constantly bad-mouth each other to other people drive me nuts.
The title is definitly me! I vent when people do me wrong. Not "lady gossip" criticizing and ripping other ladies apart, but needing to talk out what happened. So, this is my comment before listening. Let's see if I have something to learn here.
Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuude. I have been the kind of person to just share anything with anyone and let me tell you people have gotten very upset with me for it... I've definitely hurt myself also by sharing things with people who had bad intentions... So nowadays I constantly wonder "should I talk about this" and I hesitate to be vulnerable especially when someone other than me is involved... Just the other day I was talking to the youth pastor and said I was worried about talking bad about my family to her... I find it very difficult to understand where the "line" is and feel guilty yet frustrated often.
I do think it's a very good point you make and a good principle to generally follow to focus on the counsel aspect... Though I sadly have found that people often don't have any counsel for me because situations are so complex... Maybe I just haven't found wise people... 😞
I think something we shouldn't do is talking to someone else about a problem instead of talking with the person we have a problem with. People justify too much how they really need to 'vent'. No, you don't need to. You just don't want to face the person you have a problem with and you want to avoid fighting. Me too. I'm afraid I don't say the right words and make it worse.
Brilliant video. I feel convicted of doing this so often and not even realising how problematic and unbalanced it is to seek biased approval from friends and family. I don't mind admitting that this is going to be a tough habit to break, despite now knowing the truth.
Currently watching these because I get confused between venting and gossip. Usually venting can easily turn into gossip
🤣 I loved that moment with Lisa. And “amen” to this. 👍
Love you Mike thank you for all that you do.
Its no gossip that I absolutely Praise God for bringing Mike into my life. I learn so much and it makes me want to learn more and grow with our Lord.
My Allison and I also don't talk about one another to others. We try to pray before contentious discussions. And follow our Fair-fighting rules.
No Mike, we really need to vent. I have one friend, who I talk to when I'm really pissed at work. She'll laugh at me, because although I'm raging mad, it comes out like stand up comedy. When the content from my mouth is really bad; she just listens in silence. She told me once that she understood early on that I'm not really bad mouthing them, but getting my frustrations out. I struggle with mental illness, so it's better to get stuff out in a safe space than act out in public. She listens because she gets that this could go really bad if it's kept in a little longer. I'm not making an excuse, I'm just saying, it helps in the long run
Genuinely asking-is it biblical?
"But the Holy Spirit produces this kind of fruit in our lives: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. There is no law against these things!" Galatians 5:22&23
If you are a follower of Jesus then you have the Holy Spirit living in you. Allow the Spirit to lead you down the right paths and produce these fruits in your life. Quit allowing the flesh to lead you but trust in God. We cannot imagine a better future than what God wants for us, so trust in Him and allow Him to lead. Hopefully this helped and inspired you today. God bless you!
Can we see the whole thing? Dear pastor Mike , you are such a blessing for our generation!
I've been on the receiving end of supposed "venting." To the point where I got essentially kicked out of a friend group simply by requesting that friends don't stay the night at our house on work nights.
Somehow the "venting" someone did about that request caused the rest of the friend group seeing me as some big bad villain.
And when I confronted the gossiper about this, she basically justified herself by saying, "Well, sometimes I just need to vent. Okay?"
Venting is gossiping. Period. If you really need to vent that bad, save it for your therapist.
AMEN. I’ve dealt with a similar situation. Sadly, it was with family members who are also in my Bible study. The “venting” destroyed our Bible study. Lord have mercy.
Thank you! Thank you! Thank you for address this! I watched a family member's marriage dissolve and the background is, the wife would vent to the child and others about her husband. I learned that I cannot disrespect my spouse like this.
I don't know that it's bad, I suppose it could be depending on how they go about it but my wife gets together with friends and talks about her frustrations and I think it's good. They sort out what is normal and help each other think through things. Pretending that all is great 24/7 doesn't do anyone any good. If there is real abuse going on, it can come to light and they can get help. If I behave embarrassingly and now her friends know it, that's on me for the stupid behavior, not on her for talking about it with trusted friends.
Seeking wise counsel is key and professional counsel can be extremely helpful.
I’m a “put out fires, solve the problem, make peace” type of person. I’ve never been good at conversions where everyone is just sitting around complaining. Because I start making a list in my head of how can I help solve this problem and that problem. But some people truly aren’t complaining to get their problem solved. They just get a kick out of complaining. We would get a lot more accomplished if we looked for good and not bad.
I think there has to be precaution. Talk therapy is a very real thing and sometimes you are going to be annoyed with a friend or family members poor choices and you care about them enough that it is stressing you out that they keep making the wrong decision that are harmful to themselves.
1. have a select number of people like three (a family member, your spouse and a friend) and make sure they have the same values as you and make it clear you are going to speak to them about things that bother you and they are not to repeat it to anyone because of your christian values. And say like Mike said (Godly wisdom) have them know that you could be looking for Godly council at the end so that you don't feel that way and their actions don't affect you anymore.
2. Have a limit and self-awareness - are you constantly saying the same story to the same person over and over again for the sake of talking if so you are gossiping despite it not going anywhere and you need to stop. Not only are you wasting your time, you are allowing yourself to be angry in sin.
3. I agree with Mike - when you need to talk about a concern or frustration of your spouse and can't talk to them for some reason or maybe you want to make sure you are thinking clearly, again have a select two or three people who are GODLY, not just your bestfriend from highschool, they need to be part of your fellowship. No matter the intent and how much you share your values, if you choose someone who you know is a godly person - it's your fault when you spoil someone's name becuase of your mouth and lack of self-control.
This is interesting talk. I would like to say that validation is extremely helpful for abusive relationships. Gaslighting makes the abused feel like they are going crazy. "Don't gossip" is used to shut an abused person up. Only when they verbalize the abuse to a friend and have the friend react to it is how they gain courage to make needed change. I've seen it first hand and the mind games are so difficult to see without an outsider's view.
Exactly. I have been through this, 100 percent
I know what you mean. Fear of dishonoring your spouse has been a killer in abusive situations. But when it's not physical abuse and it's 'just' emotional, verbal, or sexual, you get almost no help from many churches. Worst when the person is in church leadership, related to leaders, or easily likable by others. Feeling soo alone and insulated and silenced you want to take your own life... I pray for anyone in this place. Please don't give up. Speak up to someone even if it's reaching someone outside your community.
I cannot tell you how many times I have been hurt by slander and gossip. If you feel hurt then pray, talk to the person involved but do not "vent".
If I was not strong in the faith I could have lost my faith, it really hurts.
I think the habit of gossiping comes from an unmet need to feel truly known, particularly on issues that feel important to us in the moment.
Someone above said “I’m learning to vent to God”. We’re never going to be fully or truly known by anyone or have our meets met by anyone except God. Putting that expectation on other people makes them A god. And we know the first commandment is you shall have no other gods before Me.
That deff is where some of the spite comes from. When something happens to me I find it useful sometimes to replay that moment in my head as if it was happening to someone else and I'm the outsider judging what should be said and done.
oh actually re-reading your comment I think you're talking about something else (still an interesting point you're making) well I'll just leave this comment here anyway
I think this may apply to grandparents and kids too. Mike saying you can see their reactions to that person is a fruit of the venting...would help the relationships in my family if I didn't vent about my kiddos.
Does our talk show love and grace for our neighbor? Even when we are “venting,” there are ways to express our frustration about someone without tearing them down and sullying their reputation. Best not to say anything if it could possibly hurt them. Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart be acceptable in His sight. That’s always a good place to start before we “vent.”
Venting is absolutely necessary, but not gossip. I only vent to my husband because I know he won't say anything and he always stays neutral. I will not vent to anybody else with the exception of a very carefully selected counselor. But the reason we need to vent is because women generally are built to be more agreeable and passive, which means we're going to internalize the slights against us more often than we're going to face them head on. And, to be honest, that's kind of the way we're expected to deal with it. All of that building up inside eventually has to come out or we'll die of stress, pain, shame, or anger.
I cut out some women in my life because they constantly needed to “vent “ it was hard but having them constantly complain about their relationships and their kids and me trying to correct them lovingly just made them mean towards me mocking my “perfect marriage and perfect kid” it made me bitter and sad it took me months to build up the courage to break the relationship after prayer and God confirming to me that it is time after 28 years of friendship I walked away and dusted of my feet I still pray for them and love them but I have peace and God has brought more mature Christian friends into my life. So I am 100 with Mike on this one women don’t realise how toxic their “small talk or venting” can be and how uncomfortable it might make others and they often do it in a group as if it is a normal thing and if you don’t agree they will mock you
Mike, you are not only a blessing - but a funny man...
Whenever I start to feel the need to “vent” I always think of “To the woman He said, “Your desire shall be contrary to your husband” In verse 3:16 Genesis. It reminds me to back up, breath and go to God for wisdom. I’m imperfect and still get frustrated with my husband but since finding this verse God has helped me apply it more and more to my life. My hope is to be a woman like in proverbs.
As someone who was recently strongly rebuked by God because of receiving and participating in this very thing I can offer this: If by the end of your "venting" you have shared details about someone that others(plural) should not have been privy too, have shaped people's perceptions of who or what this other person is and people know EXACTLY who you are talking about because you have provided their name, address, phone number, place of employment, maiden and married name, type of car they drive, etc., you are involved in gossip. Please take heed lest you fall because there is a reason why women in particular are warned not to be busybodies given to gossip. Its a tough pill to swallow, but we seem to be especially susceptible to this behavior, although not exclusively, and psychologists confirm this because women tend to be more aggressive relationally. The movie "mean girls" comes to mind and is a great example of art imitating life.
I’d more or less agree with you. But what if someone is asking me my opinion of someone else? If I have a negative opinion of them because they were rude to me, should I just keep my mouth shut? By keeping my mouth shut, that person who asked obviously knows I hold a negative opinion. So even by not answering, I’m still “gossiping”/letting someone else know my true negative feelings about someone else
@@nicvic1717 I see your perspective. If someone is asking your opinion, maybe you can share what they did that caused you to describe them as rude. My experience is with someone who always seems to have negative opinions of people and offers those opinions without anyone asking for them. This person also asks for "advice" on other people while providing identifying markers and, by the end of the conversation, I know far too much about these people. I think the Holy spirit can help you decipher the reason why you are sharing that opinion of the person, but I would consider that it could be wrong, especially if it is your only interaction with them. It may not be the correct position , but I try to consider if my words are building someone up or tearing them down? Is this going to help the person who is asking or is it going to cause harm? It is a fine line, but I think we truly trip into the realm of gossiping more than we are willing to admit.
For me as a woman, venting is when I’m talking about something that directly happened to me or affected me in some way. Gossiping is when I’m talking about someone else’s life or issues. Here’s one view on the difference between venting and gossiping: “Gossip is ill-intentioned and mean-spirited much of the time. Venting, on the other hand, is done to express your frustration about a person or problem.”
Question: why is true venting called “gossiping” when women do it, but when men do it, it’s still considered “venting”?
While I totally agree that there is healthy venting, (I think "verbal processing" is actually a better term) but, I think the reason people focus on women in this topic is because of the huge problem women have with cutting down other women. There are multiple studies that show women in particular do statistically have a much higher level of negative socialization going on. Men just don't care about talking about each other that much. It's not a sexist thing to say, it is just true. We don't talk very much about each other because we are more focus on concrete non-social thinking than social abstracts. Do, I think there are men with gossip issues? Absolutely. I've met them but, as with things like physical violence being higher statistically in men, social violence is much higher in women.
In my experience, men “venting” is not at all tolerated, even among peers. If a guy is bringing a frustration to his male friends, his male friends will more often than not either make fun of him, or help come up with solutions, and usually both. Guys are happy to help each other with their problems, but no one wants to hear their mates sob story just to hear it.
@@smithsmithington I have literally been harassed at my job to the point that people see it but have told me they don’t want to speak on it or be brought into it … I was very upset with men at one time for continuously being my abuser and continuously protecting my abuser by deciding not to speak on anything
I also met another person who was being treated similarly they told me to “keep my head down” as they “just deal with it” … it’s sad
@@MNIU_ That's really tragic. My wife went through something similar and she and one other person magically lost their jobs when they spoke up about this person. Even her job agency that placed her there said there wasn't a lot they could do without more witnesses. Of course we didn't have the money for a lawyer too.
I really needed this 20 years ago 🤦♀️
Wonderful advice! Thank you! We don’t need to vent! We need Godly advice!
@spirals 73 doesn’t sound like you’re talking to godly people. Even if they do go to church.
@spirals 73 the best counsel at the end of the day will come from Gods word. Seek His counsel first. It’s becoming harder and harder to come by Godly older women who have truly godly character and wisdom
Man what great wisdom.
Mm... yes and no. It depends on how serious the situation is. I've never felt the need to vent about my husband to a room full of women or even anyone individually. But I have gone sobbing to my mother (also a Christian) once in the past for comfort when I felt really uncertain and conflicted about something in our relationship. So I think it's entirely about how it's done, who the person they're going to is, what the intention of the venting person is, and how emotionally upsetting the situation is
43 years together. We do not speak negatively about one another to others. We just don’t.
Even in situations where women are “joking” about their husband’s shortcomings or wrongdoings, it is still advisable to be the one who will only speak positive and edifying words.
If there was a problem that one of us needed to discuss, we would go to a trusted Pastor or to a Counselor.
Trust in a marriage is an essential. The picture of marriage is one of Christ as our Bridegroom and him loving us as his Bride. I surely don’t need to chip away at Jesus or my husband ☀️🙏🏼
Seems to depend on a case by case basis of whether the particular girl "gossips" as she "vents". Huge amount of gray
All good advice, Mike. I would like to add that venting can be useful and even healthy when applied properly. When I get so emotionally charged that I can't think rationally or objectively, venting helps to relieve the emotional pressure so I can better analyze the situation and receive counsel. However, applying the former but neglecting the latter is just griping.
Does venting honor God?
@@kolbywilliams7234 when it’s done right
@@stannmyself5856
How is venting, as Winger defined it, done right?
@@kolbywilliams7234 thats not the kind of venting im talking about lol
@@stannmyself5856
Then what is venting?
So so sooo good, thank you for the wisdom brother. Keep letting GOD speak through you!
The best thing you can do to "vent" go to a room alone, and talk to your heavenly Father. This has refreshed me, brought me closer to God, has given me more wisdom on the situation and also helps me reflect on what I'm doing wrong and the things I need to change. We have a friend who is with us all the time (The Holy Spirit) use him. :D
My father emotionally disowned me when I was a young child, and was a constant bully who managed to oppress me to the point I was afraid to leave my bed because I didn't want to hear the next nasty thing he was going to say to completely crush me that day.
I would deeply prefer I never see him again, in this life or the next. Same with my mother, whose abuse truly broke me as a child. I don't know how to mesh this with the commandment to honour my parents. Am I dishonoring my parents by protecting myself from them?
Because I was the family scapegoat, all I could do by giving them the Gospel is to convince them it is untrue simply because it has come from my mouth.