Power Off 180 Landings| Piper Arrow
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- Опубліковано 25 гру 2024
- In this video, I take on the challenge of landing the Power Off 180! This is quite a difficult maneuver that is necessary on the commercial check ride, so it's better that I get it right now, rather than fumbling through it on exam day!
The Piper Arrow sinks like a rock as soon as you throttle back which adds to the difficulty of this maneuver!
Enjoy the landings!
I'm a student pilot and when your instructor monkeyed with your landing gear on final, it reminded me of one of my lessons. I was downwind, abeam the numbers, so I throttled back, flipped in first position of flaps, and pitched for what would normally have given me a smooth 70 knot descent. A few seconds later, I said, "We are not slowing down" and I visually verified flaps were all the way up still. So I flipped the switch back up, then back down, looked out the window again: no movement from the flaps.
Finally realized my CFI had pulled the breaker for the flaps to see what I would do. So we reset that, but then he made me practice a landing with no flaps anyway. Good times.
Loving your videos. Keep it up!
Haha sounds like you have a good instructor.. It's always good to get some real world experience! Or as close to it as possible!
Yeah, it's amazing how often things fail when there's a flight instructor in the right seat. :-)
When I was doing training for the mountain airport I used to fly into, "flaps failed" was my instructor's favorite call. I got reasonably good at putting the plane into a really hard slip to get low and slow enough.
I slapped the hand of my instructor when get my instrument ticket because he kept fiddling with stuff. We had agreed that he could tune the radios or ask me to simulate a power failure. It was my plane, after all.
Love how clean the panel is. There's an old saying with flying the arrow, you throw a brick out of the window and you follow the brick, that is best glide
Hahaha it's a good saying, and very very true.. The panel is very clean.. The cleanest I've seen in a while
Boy, if that isn't true. You almost need to start turning BEFORE power is cut. :) Too bad I can't see the future...
With a 172, I can usually give an 8 to 10 second count before turning because they love to float.
if your in a cherokee 6 youll beat the brick to the ground
Once again, an awesome video from you LewDix! Just started commercial training and this helped me visualize how the Arrow acts during this demanding maneuver!
Thank you! Glad you liked it. This one is quite an old video. You dived deep into the archives!
Great video! I've practiced this same maneuver in an Arrow many times. I agree, the Arrow is like a flying brick when power is cut. Good job.
Thanks Ken.. It really does just drop as soon as you lose power
“Whooop”. Lol. Good to go back n watch ur training vlogs. Thanx.
Nice!
Glasses fogging up, the pressure's on Lolz! Well done mate you did good.
I enjoy practicing power off 180s, especially in the Arrow which, as you said, drops like a rock without power. Regardless, hitting your landing spot within a few feet is very satisfying.
Agreed there's no better feeling!
Noticed you feathering the prop, such a big difference. We didn't do that in training but gear down 10 seconds before touch down, doesn't glide very well at all. Nice plane though!! Great video's too btw, thanks 🙂
wow nice and a cool CFI very hard manuver good luck.
Thanks!
My school teaches that glide approaches are the safest, and so it feels really normal for me, but I can understand why people don't like them. The first time I did one, it felt weird being on base and at full circuit height, but now I constantly feel low if I'm on a standard 3 degree powered approach. You handled them really well.
Steven Mason The thing drops like a brick so it's really weird base to final.. Feels so low..I went to a CFI seminar at the FSDO and they are big supporters of teaching gliding approaches.. I'll be doing that with my students.. I'm glad you enjoyed it!
Yeah, I've never done one in a PA28 of any kind, so I can imagine the drop is crazy. I fly an RF-6, which is a French rag and cable bit of kit which is really light and with LONG wings, so it glides relatively well. I'd guess the stubby wings of the PA28 aren't conducive to a great glide angle. I've always found the effect of the drag flap really interesting in glide -- it almost acts as an airbrake.
As usual; great flying. I love your videos mate; thanks for sharing them. Regards from the motherland!
Great stuff! Honestly this maneuver I'm having the most difficulty with because the arrow sinks so fast. I'll get it down one day.
Nice video. My friend's dad bought an Arrow and said it glides horribly....Now I believe him!
Thanks for the video.. really good experience... buttttttt be careful with the rudder! Always keep coordinated!!!
Nice video mate - look forward to the next one
Very cool seeing this training. 10/10
Thanks man! Glad I could bring it to you!
Jajajajajaja Felipee OP OP OPA GANGAM STYLE😂😂😂 he gotchuu thoo😂😂 good call👍🏻 great job
Hahaha thanks man
Looks like a difficult manoeuvre to master!!
Very good man. Looked like you had the same problem I was having.. Not knowing what to do with your right hand once the power had been cut!
Hahaha it's instinct isn't it? It was just a subconscious thing to have my hand there!
That's my home airport! The "33 hump" can be a real doosie. Good job. Any time in a Cherokee 6?
The hump is awful!! Makes things difficult! No time in a Cherokee 6
I love it. $h&t's getting real!! Great video. Chuckled at the gangnam style bit.
Haha thanks man.. Glad you enjoyed it! I had to throw the gangnam style bit in!
I'm gonna head up and practice these tomorrow....
Difficult one to master, especially in the Arrow. Fantastic airplane, but they sink like a stone
Nice video man!! It's really helpful for getting my CPL! I just got one question why you put the prop to idle instead of putting it full forward?
Cool man! Glad they are helping! I pull the prop back to reduce drag. The Arrow drops like a brick so any drag reduction is really helpful.
LewDix Aviation I wonder if a DPE would allow that on a checkride? Theoretically if you loose your engine and oil pressure (not all the oil just some of it) the prop is going to go to a low pitch (high rpm) setting. I would figure the last thing you would want is it going to full feather. I would think one would want it generating some thrust to make it to the runway.
Not trying to be a smart ass, just honestly curious.
Single engines don't feather
I always practice power off 180s and such with the prop at full RPM (full forward) because it's likely that with an engine failure, the prop governor will cease to operate. Yes, that really sucks in an Arrow because they sure don't like to glide as well as other planes. Always prepare for the worst!
sr8621 a constant speed can, dumb ass
Great job! Working on the same stuff myself!
Flew an arrow 2.3hrs today!
Curious, why was your instructor doing the taxiing a few times?
NICE! He was taxiing because every time I landed, my sunglasses would fog up.. So I asked him to take controls while I cleaned them!
I recently started my commercial training too! My instructor gave me some good advice to get best glide on the Arrow, he said drop a brick and follow it down! /s ... Hope that helps you like it did me! lol
Awesome vid. Hopefully I'll be going first solo in the next week. Just a question, why didn't you need Carb Heat when bringing throttle to idle here?
Brilliant man! Good luck on the solo! The Arrow is a fuel injected engine, so no carb heat.. All the fuel to air mixing is done in the servo regulator..
Love the Gangnam Style edit 😂
Is it required to feather the prop for this maneuver?
No
That's a Complex airplane right. I heard something about "pulling the prop back". ?
Yea.. Constant speed prop, retractable gear and flaps = complex
@@LewDixAviation Excellent...I always wondered what the big deal was. Now I know, thank you good sir. Keep up the Great Videos.
Does the prop feather at low RPM in the arrow? Good job. Trickster cfi yuk yuk yuk😎
neal mcconochie it doesn’t feather per se. You can bring the prop lever back when the engine is idling to reduce drag, but it’s not a true feather. If the governor fails in a single engine constant speed, the blades automatically give you a finer/lower pitch so you can get as much power from the engine as possible. On a multi, the props on a failed engine automatically revert to a high pitch to be in line with the relative wind and reduce drag. They feather.
Hi! Nice videos...!! Why do you start the power off 180 with L/G down??
Thanks! There is no requirement to start the 180 with the gear up.. That's why I do it with the gear down.. Also, it is one less thing to worry about during the maneuver!
Honest question, why no carb heat?
No carb ice was suspected
No carb heat on an Arrow, only alternate air due to fuel injected
Are you using a new camera? Seems a little more HD.
Same camera, the Hero 4, but 60fps instead of 30.
for your security you have the use the electric pomp end the heater
youness mesbah you talking about carb heat?
I thought that when you land you are supposed to have your hand on the throttle and not the flaps, and you should have rich mixture and full prop just in case you need to go around.
Gadi Amit It's power off 180 practice, there is no throttle required as it's simulating I have no engine. Ideally prop should be full forward, but in a situation where you need to reduce drag to increase glide distance it's not a problem to bring the prop back. Did it on my checkride
Gadi Amit it's been a while but if you were in a true no power situation you wouldn't be able to feather the prop because the lack of oil pressure from the engine and the fact the governor on a single is reversed from a twin. I agree reducing drag is great but in a real world engine failure, not reduced power situation, I didn't think it was possible.
I used to teach these with props forward in the Arrow for this reason. You can glide enough with the added drag. I was always more comfortable with having the extra power available if I needed it.
@@LewDixAviation Again, my apologies, but I agree also with the other comments. I don't think feathering the prop is a good idea either. I added a previous comment about the late change of flap settings from zero to full on very short final. I think two significant areas of risk were introduced into that training session, and I do not believe either is necessary.
@@kenstallings1811 No apologies necessary man. Since this video was posted over 6 years ago I’ve read many articles and spoken to manufacturers who support that in a power off situation if the prop is windmilling, to move the prop control to low RPM. The reduction of drag helps. Now, there’s something to be said about putting yourself into a position where you have to do this. If you do things correctly you won’t have to. But in a true emergency, you can bet I’m going to try and do everything possible to have a positive outcome.
👍
Yes
youness mesbah it's fuel injected
Ok thank you
Ahh the dreaded 180. For sure the least favorite maneuver for commercial single!
are you not agree ?
youness mesbah there's no carb heat in a fuel injected aircraft because there's no carburetor
Wow gangnam stype lol
Sorry, but I disagree with the change of flaps on very short final. The concept of a stable approach to land means that your configurations should be set prior to short final, and given the nature of this short runway, these flap changes from zero to full were happening while essentially crossing runway threshold. I must say I believe a safer and equally effective technique would be to set the flaps on downwind, along with the gear configuration, measuring the descent rate and then determining what the ideal downwind offset from the runway and entering altitude should be, and making the turn to final at ideal offset.
Again, making such a significant change in configuration that low to the ground seems unsound to me. Yes, it can work to achieve that initial increase in height, but that could have effectively been considered on downwind with a slightly earlier turn to final. Nailing the 180 power off spot landing is all about proper calculation of descent rate when configured for power off glide, as configured to land, and then entering the turns precisely on time. It should not require a significant reconfiguration on very short final.
He likes to do only 2 second forward slip, and take it out, then 2 second forward slip again, and take it out, even when high. Afraid of forward slips..
Nah
@@LewDixAviation yeahh. Intermittent Forward Slip Syndrome??
@@outwiththem 6 checkrides, 2 airline type ratings, 100% pass rate for students. I think I would’ve been caught out by now if I was “scared of forward slips” 😂
@@LewDixAviation I never said YOU. Your student did that. Some are scared of forward slips because are "Weird". or "difficult to do for me". (LOL). I learned them on a No flaps Piper Colt at 80 mph approaches when around 10 hours only. Soloed doing them at 13 hours doing 3 short approaches and touch and goes.
That was a normal solo in that airport. If you could do only 2 second forward slip, you land too long, no touch and go done because of that, have to stop and taxi back like an idiot. Hot weather back taxi. CFI pissed off by your cowardise and clumsyness. They let you go. Why? Because you can only do Mild Maneuvering.
I was taught EFATO 4 kinds in 1996 by the other commentator named airplaneEmergencyTurbacks..
Glad you are not one of the many Mild Maneuvering CFI in USA that cannot teach EFATO. Too many can only teach mild maneuvering. And when have to do Hard Maneuvering like EFATO, or short approaches, or low legal 400 agl circling windy approaches, they crash.
Jon Kowilski of FlyM8, Jason Schapper and FlyWire Scott Perdue are teaching EFATO lately too. My CFi convinced them to learn those turnbacks from safe altitude.
Now you and them are Hard Emergencies CFI and Hard Maneuvering CFI's. Congrats..
@@LewDixAviation Take a look at that channel of airplaneEmergencyTurnbacks. Videos of 30 pilots practicing turnbacks EFATO. also videos of short approaches, low go arounds, accelerated stalls and other hard maneuvers. He was a Hard Maneuvering CFI. He retired with 11 emergencies and no accidents.