Uncovering The Truth: The Toyota Mr2 Controversy - Is It Really Dangerous?
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- Опубліковано 28 вер 2024
- Did Toyota really screw up? When the first road tests started coming in Toyota's hopes for the new MK2 MR2 were dashed. Several testers found it had a near lethal tendency to snap oversteer. Many ended up spinning off the road.. but was it really Toyota's fault or is there more to this story?
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the most dangerous part of a motor vehicle is the nut behind the wheel
agreed, if the steering wheel nut is removed and then not put back properly, or aligned straight, you will have major issues.
Which is why a car like this is a bad purchase for the average driver
As someone, who has crashed a mk3 MR2, I agree
@@Owen-hg3cu I dare you to take some short wheelbase front wheel drive car like VW Lupo, Fiat Seicento or alike (must be without ESP!), take it to a closed track, and do something to provoke high oversteer, for example cornering liftoff, or moose test and try to control it. Up to 15 degrees oversteer it's doable, but anything more it's next to impossible.
When manufacturers were transitioning from rear wheel drive to front wheel drive, everyone were claming these cars were easier to drive. In reality rear wheel drive car was like a good father that on daily basis puts difficulties for his child to overcome and learn, but comes to aid when things go seriously bad.
Front wheel drive cars on the other hand, are like a psychopath with Piranhas in his swimming pool. Surrounds you with sense of security and then out of a blue throws you in the pool. We were sold deathtraps that were just cheaper to produce.
'Lift Off Oversteer' is a major problem with any mid-engined car AT THE LIMIT!
I destroyed a Fiat X1/9 by lifting my right foot in a corner at the very limit of it's grip.
The car turned around and hit a concave clay bank at 100kph.
It shortened the car by 14".
I survived by the skin of my teeth.
Snap! But my crash happened in a Lancia Monte Carlo. My car survived (with damage) but I got rid soon after.
I did the same in a MR2 MK1. Didn't help that I had just picked it up from the previous owner to find that the ditch-finder cheapo tyres were lethal.
I found the trick to driving a Exxie quickly, was to make it drift a little on purpose. That way it didn't catch you out. Also, back in the late 90's, mine loved Firestones that were a little bigger than standard (from memory, 185 instead of 165). I miss my X1/9...
@@rain-bender4712the X1/20!
Old Porsche proverb say 'in slow out fast'. One of the lads bought a Carrera 2 3.2 back in the late 80's & threw it into a ((big & wide) roundabout lifting off the power on entry, next thing I'm looking out the side window into our direction of travel. Next roundabout went in slower-but on the power & flew out of the roundabout like Walther Rahl was driving & not the village idiot who'd been doing overtime on the farm.
One of the best looking Japanese sports cars of the 90's for the money.
the Celica 4WD Turbo looked great too!
I'll say, the 1988 prelude is also gorgeous ❤
Must be joking. Looks ghastly
When I was a kid someone nearby had one when they just came out. The first time I saw it, I fell in love. It was red and looked like a million dollars worth.
This car has a special place in my hearth.
Beautiful is Supra, Skyline, mitsubishi GTO, RX7 .... but MR2 is Ugly as hell !!!
Hi Jack. They weren't dangerous. I bought mine (a white T-Bar) in 1998 and sold it after 80,000 miles 5 years later in 2003. It was fantastic. I drove it really hard on times and it never ever approached oversteer (apart from in a snow covered car park, just to see). 21 years later I still miss it. After my 1275GT Mini it is probably the best handling car I've ever driven. I also drove one on 14inch wheels and didn't have an issue with that either (and that was a turbo).
Nearly bought one in Switzerland in the late ‘90s but it was an auto and.. I just couldn’t. Cracking looking car - glad you had a great experience as an owner 👏
A lot of people put bigger wheels with low profile tyres on them which ruins the handling.
You also probably know what time it is as a driver. I spun a Gen1 with lift-throttle OS but I was 19 and wasn't aware.
The most dangerous car sold to the public was probably the original 1970's Porsche 911 Turbo, nicknamed the Widow Maker. When the Turbo kicked in the car would spin around backwards into traffic, into a hedge etc, some owners and passengers did not survive.
false.. when the turbo kicked in everyone shit their pants and let off the throttle. you need to keep it planted to the floor or you are done for.
It would have been a "widow maker".................. if any of the owners had wives.
@@DavidJones-or8ek Wasn't the 911 not the definition of midlife crises present for any (wealthy) middle aged married man those days?
@@for-sure-friend Porsche was difficult enough ever since they went to 3 liter engines. They tried to fix that with led weights up front. Rally cars didn't have that. Even Zasada mentioned the car was difficult to drive and acting very differently to the original 2 liter.
Goes back to the point someone else has made that the biggest danger to anyone is the idiot behind the wheel 👍🤣.
If you couldn't adjust your style to drive around the turbo lag then you shouldn't have been driving it 🤔
My favourite bit of MR2 trivia is that it had to be re-named for the French market. In French MR2 sounded too similar to 'merde'; it became just the 'MR'.
Oh look a Toyota sh*t 😂
Interestingly, the word 'etron' translates to turd, yet Audi seem to be sticking with 'E-tron'🤣
Emmerdeux, to be exact.
The opposite was the BX TRD which has been renamed in the UK for the same reason.
@@LightBranches Correct. = 'shit-stirrer'. Almost as bad as when Rolls-Royce nearly launched a new model at the Geneva show under the name 'Silver Mist' until they discovered that in German that would be Silver Turd.....
Biggest issue - same as all mid-engined rollerskates - is lift-off-oversteer far more than bump steer, all of which is exaggerated by misalignment of those rear tie-rods. When correctly adjusted they are sublime. Any other condition *is* dangerous
I’ve driven hundreds of thousands of miles in my 2 Mk2 MR2s I’ve owned since 1997. I’ve only oversteered once and that was on mud in the wet. I put it down to inexperience and listening to Metallica at the time!
I had an absolutely lovely drive in my Rev5 at the weekend. They’re so much fun!
Many thanks to your photographer, who stood around waiting for you in the rain.
Lets set the record straight, There is no design flaw with the original 91-92 suspension version. The first version of the suspension of these cars is a masterpiece. Toyota had it right in the first place. I have been road racing an sw20 for almost 10 years. The consensus amongst me and my peers of other people that race the sw20 is always is that the 93+ suspension is terrible, and makes the car slow. Toyota only made the effort to change it, because there was an executive that wrecked a sw20, and he blamed the car instead of taking accountability for his mistake. (The story of the MR2 in a nutshell,) 93 suspension gains toe on compression, that causes the rear to plow under load. This does make the rear easier for novice drivers. However the 91-92 suspension stays consistent which is exactly what you want. A well set up early SW20 will not snap oversteer. If you do not know how to drive a mid engine car don't buy one, or take the time to learn.
This sounds exactly like a Lotus Elise. You lift up mid corner, you get what you ask for!
Geez I love this channel! I retired from the auction industry last year after 37 years. One of my clients was Toyota Australia. They like my auction style and as such would give me a new company car every 5000km. One was a MR2 and ive got to say Jack your description is absolutely spot on. In watching this i can still feel the way it handled through the mountains. I basically drove it like a 911. Ie commit to the corner and either be on the throttle or not. Great little cars. Thanks again Jack
This model is my major competition at the Mt Cotton Hillclimb in Queensland Australia. The car arrives with super sticky "R" rubber and a good driver. My MGTF has the same rubber and some suspension mods but the MR2 has just a little more HP and it shows with tenths of a second faster times. There is also another one but not in my class because of the turbo that is seconds faster. That is a very well presented car. Thanks Jack.
It's often tricky to get a mid-engined car to both fast and benign on the limit. I did with a S2 Lancia Montecarlo and really did quite a few things to make it work better in those respects:-
- S1 antiroll bar at the back and move the std bar at the front back in its mounts to counter the increased roll stiffness from the rear
- Koni dampers all round and increased -ve camber at the back
- custom std ride height but approx 30% stiffer springs. I was an Engineer, could do the math etc so it was still supple but much better suited to track days etc
- custom 15x7 wheels, ironically using 225/50x15 tyres on the rear built for the MR2 you're reviewing here.
- It also a Guy Croft engine with 156BHP to make it go a bit better too and plates to strengthen the rear crossmember which cracked at Castle Coombe
Pleased to see it's still on the road. I sold it before moving to Aus in 2001. Might look for an MR2 over here as my 61st birthday present myself but franklt might just get another late MX5 NC - best version for me.
I had a Rev2 Turbo import years ago. Felt like a rocket at the time, loved it. The back end came out on me once, I managed to correct it fine, but compared with the various front engine RWD cars I'd had before, the lack of weight over the front wheels was certainly noticeable!
At the time these were first produced in their home market the "tuner" scene was on song. Living in NZ where a large percentage of our vehicle fleet was made up of used JDM vehicles, these SW20 MR2's were often seen imported with aftermarket suspension fitted. Be that lowering springs and shocks, or more serious adjustable components, this nearly always firmed the vehicles up and reduced the suspension travel, near eliminating many of the issues with rapid changes to rear toe. In some ways it can be claimed that Toyota intended these as tuner vehicles to be customised to the drivers preferences, and when they were designed and tested the suspension was closer to that of the aftermarket than what was then fitted to the production vehicles as 'delivery suspension'.
The GTS and Turbo models go for much more here in the USA. Between 20-30k with low mileage. The car you’re in is easily 18-25k with that low mileage. Perhaps more to the right buyer. That’s a nice example. The Turbo had 200HP. A real zinger.
The same issue came standard with the MGF, too much mid engined loveliness for the "average" driver.
I've driven several MR2s of all models and also a couple of hopped up, turbo'd, street/drift cars. I found the MK1 disappointing with overall performance and handling below that of my ancient but well sorted Triumph GT6 MkII. (a car that was also condemned for lift off oversteer by all and sundry) The later cars and especially the turbo'd ones went much better, but I didn't fall for any of them. I consider myself above average in the driving dept and have quite a lot of track miles under my belt, but even I found the snap oversteer unsettling. It's a car with limits that you have to respect, especially if you are driving at 10/10ths and it's a bit wet! The limits of adhesion are high, but when you exceed them, it WILL try to kill you, as impersonally as a Cobra (the reptilian legless poisonous kind!)
Worst of all, and unforgivable in my book, the limits aren't reliable or predictable. I'd much rather a car that you can drive by the seat of your pants, even if it's inherent limits are lower. The MR2 is particularly uncommicative in that sense, as is it's close cousin the MGF, so for both of them, it's a NO from me!
A mate of mine has a black mk2 he's had it 25 years! He also used it as his wedding car.... I've driven it a few times, and I wouldn't call it dangerous having said that I've never pushed the car as it's my mate's pride and joy , cracking stuff as always buddy 👍
The MR2 SW20 was first released in October 1989.
The Ferrari 348 was also released in 1989 (can't find the month).
I've read previously, that the SW20, was released before the 348, can't confirm, but being the same year and considering development time, I can't see how either specific car, could have influenced the other's design.
But obviously, there is "some" Ferrari inspiration in there..
Keep up the good work Jack 👍
Been waiting for you to do the MR2.
I had several. Mk2 in white and she drove a treat. Then had a Tubby, and did a road trip round Europe (All of it) Monaco, Turin, Austria, Switzerland and many more country’s. Had a total blast, not ever one bit of an issue with the handling. In fact I miss them both, but now days they hold their value real well.
I couldn't afford an MR2, but it turns out I wasn't much better off in my Metro back in those days. When it failed the Euro N-Cap safety test, it was discovered that in a frontal collision at anything over 25mph, you basically had a high chance of losing BOTH legs. I think if you were driving a Metro that had a frontal collision with an MR2 driven by a 17 year old joyrider, it was certain death! 😂😂
It’s so easy to blame a car for lack of driving ability and knowledge of the vehicle.
And in the case of the MR2 there's a lot of justification for that. Most cars don't require the driver to be so careful.
More than once after I have watched one of your videos I check the classifieds in Italy where I live. Most of the times the British prizes are about half of what is asked for the same car here. Same for the Mr2 gen II. They start from about 10k€ to over 20k. The biggest advantage of buying one here is that in most regions no salt is used on the roads in winter time keeping them rust free.
I owned one of these from new. It was a year after this one and was Goodwood Green. I spun it twice, once 540 degrees, which is quite an achievement considering I didn't hit either side of the road. Despite that, I still loved it. I loved the cockpit feel of the cabin and I thought the mid-engined layout was very cool. I did have to be careful with it but I had a lot of fun. It's still one of the prettiest cars I've had.
PS the pop-up headlights were brilliant.
I started driving in an era where most of us bought cars from the 50s & early 60s. Want snap oversteer? - choose whether you want French or German.
Mind you, some of the cars of the era could oversteer AND understeer simultaneously.
Jalopnik has lost its way...10 years ago Jalopnik was alright.
I've never had a mid-engined car, although I nearly bought a Fiat X19 once. The biggest scares I have had with lift-off oversteer were in a Mini, a Mirage Turbo, and a mk2 Golf GTi. I suspect that front wheel drive cars may be a bit more prone to it due to the engine braking effect, so effectively "lift-off" and braking at the same time
I had a L reg one but the non upgrade in aqua marine...the first week we had it my girlfriend did 360 on the roundabout but I put this down to having a golf Gti previously..lucky she didn't hit anything! One Sunday evening I did the fastest time I will ever do coming from deepest Northumberland to Northamptonshire, it certainly ate the miles on a long run...and there's still some fast corners near me that I would have job to match in my TVR ...maybe that's my age ! But generally owning a mk2 mr2 was good fun..
I had a 1991 T-bar roofed Turbo version. 200HP. It moved very well, and I found the handling to be excellent. I hated selling it, and would love to have another (early) one in the same bright white. Alas the asking prices for a rare pristine example is simply higher than I think the car is worth.
Any car is dangerous if driven improperly.
So true and if you love a car, then it's worth while learning it's quirks and limitations.
Yes you would have to drive it stupid on public roads to oversteer , like a 911
@htimsid well said
Yeah, car makers never make mistakes nor cut corners 😂
I got outta shape in my MK2 early on in my ownership, only needed to hit a small patch of sand on a familiar bend, lucky I corrected but it is/was easy done
A guy I worked with had an L reg imported MR2 Turbo with a mild tune of some sort of it. Fairly bog standard apart from that though. He offered me the keys one sunny afternoon so (with some trepidation knowing the reputation of the MR2, let alone a powerful one) I took it out. I went easy at first, gradually getting used to the car but the more I drove it, the more I started to like it. I came to a huge roundabout and decided to really see if it was as bad as described and really nailed the throttle, throwing it into the roundabout. Honestly it was a revelation, sure it was clearly mid engined but holy wow - I was in love! I spent the next 30 minutes on country roads enjoying the handling a bit too much. At no point did I feel unsafe though. All you need to do is know how to drive and respect the chassis, as with any mid engined car. Great cars!
I think the issue is mostly with how damn light the car is and the crazy weight distribution. For how freakin' huge and heavy she is, you can get into trouble fast in my MK3 Supra, but with the size/weight, it's not too hard to get yourself back out of it, especially with all the torque. I can't REMOTELY afford one of these MR2s in the states so I went with the 01' Celica GT-S that got the 2ZZ the Spyder never did. It's only like 400 pounds heavier, but extremely fun and very practical.
I had one, a 1994 Japanese Domestic Market GT-S. I loved it and it was very fast in a straight line. The handling though was dreadful and it did try to kill me on a couple of occasions. To put it in perspective, it replaced my Alfasud Sprint, which could have run rings around it for road holding. The MR2 understeered at slow speeds, especially in the rain and on tight corners (like roundabouts). Under power though, it would oversteer savagely. The 3S-GTE turbocharged engine has a cast iron block and if you look at the placement, it's almost rear-engined. Combined with no weight over the front wheels and the electric power steering, which was lifeless, it wasn't a great recipe. I disconnected the power steering just so that I had a fighting chance of feeling what the front wheels were doing. I replaced the MR2 with a Lotus Elise and there couldn't be more of a contrast. Toyota should have paid Lotus to setup the MR2's suspension.
Just one word tells me you understand about proper handling and road holding. Alfasud.
Every complaint about snap oversteer applies to every air cooled Porsche 911.
Poor man's Ferrari 348 - and motoring journalists decided that if you can spin a car this must be how they are driven by everyone.
Jack, I owned a series 1 from new in 1987. And what I found was that they were very sensitive to tire pressure settings. On the factory settings it was fine. But you could skew the balance of the car by adjusting tire pressures too far from factory - mine would throw snap lift off oversteer if the rears were set higher than factory. Lesson learned very quickly.
I had one in the 90s. The "worse" kind (MK2 v1). Must say shortly after getting it showing it off to a mate, flooring it on a dual carriage way at 50mph on the straight - it got knocked into pretty bad over steer - had to be fairly quick to catch it. This was not the hot hatch I had been used to! Then, weirdly, at the exact same spot with my Dad driving, he also got in into oversteer. It took him a few side to side swings before he caught it was he was not used to catching cars as I was. I can only guess it was a bump in the road at that point that disagreed with it when accelerating! Both times it was wet. I had a slide in a car park turning left on ice at low speed, it let go really suddenly and needed very rapid full on lock. Caught it just right and ended up doing a nice turn! But I had to be quick. The other time was when I was driving in the early hours in the wet (chucking it down) and got carried away going into a sharp bend. I realised I was going way too fast and started to brake hard (bare in mind no ABS). I started by turn before fully letting go of the brake and wham, the rear end let out so quick I have never seen anything life it before or since. I needed to react so rapidly and then "catch it" by letting off just at the right time to stop it going the other way. Phew! I got round. Entirely my fault getting carried away was a young man. Not proud of that incident, could have been much worse! I made sure I was extra careful after that. Generally the MR2 was a nice car to drive. There were two engine options - cars with the rear spoiler like mine had more power. Very reliable car, I did 50K miles in mine taking it up to 100K and had no issues. I heard the transmission can handle 800bhp! The steering is semi electric and would have been better as full hydraulic. We never got the Turbo version officially in the UK although there were plenty of imports. The handling generally never gave me problems other than the issues I mentioned! I often enjoyed it in the typical UK wet weather where I would happily let it slide about a little very safely. If you are used to FWD cars though - this cars swings fast when it lets go and needs more skill to catch. Other cars seemed super easy, could catch in my sleep after this. Although once I had a big slide in my AX GT - hitting a pothole in the wet at 60mph. That turned out to be due to the alloy leaking air and a fear tyre got very low. You are right - rust is the issue to watch out for. While not a perfect engine which would have made it like a proper Ferrari, I still enjoyed revving mine to the 7K limit and the engine was super strong and reliable.
Kinda glad I wasn't on any road near you back then.
I remember driving a friends car, the day that he got it no less, and the road I was on had a camber change from left to right and changed from up to down and the back end came out and I was gobsmacked at how easy it was to provoke.
However I had one of those moments where good luck exceeds talent and instead of spinning his brand new car I managed to catch it and drove through the corner like a hero in a controlled power slide (of course the sweat all of my body proved it was not a calm or relaxing experience😅).
@@acjdf it was a one off getting carried away at 3am. But yeah, as I said, not proud of it. I just went into the corner fast and braked late in the wet but did have the skills to catch it. The other one, the AX GT rear tyre running low caused it. Nothing I did wrong driving wise, was just going along at 60 on a b road in a straight line, and wham, I was into oversteer after hitting a bit pothole in the wet. It made me wake up to tyre pressures and checking them often. And the MR2 on the straight, that was really odd. Even my father had it let go there and he was super safe. He would have hated to have crashed. I was generally a very safe driver - never got a point. I just wanted to make a point about the handling of these cars so people know what they are up against - to help people.
When it came to day out for the work team, over 100 of us did the skid pan. which was a RWD Ford Sierra on shopping trolley wheels round cones. I got the fastest time and a trophy.
Thank you for this video. Another Gran Turismo 2 memory unlocked. These used to be very common cars in New Zealand but now you struggle to find one. That said, I recently met a local rally enthusiast who's car was one of these Toyotas - fitted with a Mitsubishi GTO V6!!!! Think home made Stratos!
Had a mk2 rev1, spun it once in insane rain as I just wasn’t giving it respect and/or concentrating. Luckily no damage. Never happened again, went on to drive in incredibly bad winter weather with no troubles, but with respect. Absolutely loved that car. Had it lowered, a blueflame exhaust and short shifter. Nothing better than getting the roof off on a lovely summer evening. I think the lad that bought it off me wrote it off.
Bought myself the Mk1; loved it ! But yes, I was a fairly novice driver back then and was a huge Celica fan (had severel models TA 40, 60's) so quit natural to move towards MR2. Yes, it was "jumpy" in the rain and quick city driving. In my case, it approved my driving skills A LOT. Had my MR2 late 80's and since then all sorts of cars (from Impreza GT turbo to Quashqai) and no, I repeat NO accidents. Drove an average of 50.000 km' s per year (including the Impreza!!!) and I have nothing but thumbs up for the Toyota. Oh yeah, good video again...😂🎉❤
It's true....I had an early Mk2 which had a terrible snap oversteer. They changed the suspension in the later models and my later purchases were fine.
The V6 conversion is a beautiful version. The bhp and torque is much better and the balance is lovely.
In 1996 I was a passenger in one these - I loved it - but two weeks later the same car flipped over going around a corner!
Never seen a 2nd gen MR2 W20 in person but they look fantastic in videos. A neighbour 2 doors down has a blue W10 as his enthusiast Sunday car. They are nice looking cars imho. Great video, are Jalopnik always known for such sensational claims?
Please test Fiat X1/9!
I had three X1/9s back in the day then a mk1 MR2 - still prefer an X1/9
He has 😃
ua-cam.com/video/Gr6aX6HkXzE/v-deo.html
Have done already… it’s on the channel
I had a Mk 2 and 3 GT T Bar back in the 90s and I horsed them both up and down the roads in Scotland 6 days a week without any problems. Both were wonderful to drive and I would buy another one in a heartbeat. Never ever had any handling issues with either of them
I owned this exact car (same colour too!). I tracked it multiple times and yes, it did have surprise oversteer. BUT you could always predict the limit by the neat little chirp of the rear tyres. My only real gripe was the overall weight.
Car prices & values are so strange in the UK (to me anyway) but I guess the low amounts are because the UK is a RHD market.
If the car in this video were left hand drive, for sale here in the states, it would cost $30,000 minimum. Basketcases are around $12k to $15k.
I drove a 93 or 94 t-top turbo 5 speed about 25 years ago & have wanted a MR2 since. The 2nd Gen cars seemed like a huge leap forward, compared to the Gen 1.
Great video Jack !!!
My first sports car was a Rev4 black t bar 👌😮💨 great video Jack! I always knew the Rev ones were more snappy and now I know why! 👏
I'd a rev4 sw20. Loved this car. On the road it was not at all dangerous. It taught me a lot about car control, I found it quite adjustable. It was hilarious on a track, big drift angles possible and the only time I ever spun it. The engine was a bit of a let down though, I would have much preferred a turbo. 175hp maybe but little torque and not a great noise.
I noted the Jalopnik article referenced the TURBO MR2. That was JDM only I believe and only a few of them are over here as grey imports. The UK market cars (even the early ones - I had a 1990 GT T-Bar) didn’t really have enough torque low down to make them readily oversteer and as Jack says unfortunately that engine became coarse sounding at higher revs discouraging thrashing it. So definitely not a death trap in normally aspirated form. I could imagine the turbo version perhaps getting a bit snappy when the boost kicked in though?
Overall a well built little car, with nice initial throttle response and pointy steering but better for posing around town with the T-tops out than giving it some. Not really a mini Ferrari for the poor man!
Each powertrain configuration (straight axle, transaxle, front/mid/rear engine, erc) have their own handling characteristics and was well explained here. Another excellent review 👍
My 'rev 1' was used for 40,000 miles between 2005 and 2010. No dramas with handling, but the ditch-finder tyres it came with gave me the old 'bum twitch' on wet manholes so they were swapped out immediately. The brake calipers (front especially) had some reputation for seizing due to corrosion (I had to rebuild all during 6 years). Also, the underside chassis strut bracing was plain steel that could rust to pieces. So apart from anything else, poor upkeep would contribute to unexpected direction changes more than many other motors.
I like the segway into the different " bullet points " of the car👍
The GT in the US was a turbocharged 200 hp 2.0 liter. Never driven one but have driven the Series I and Series III.
I drove one extensively in period, a turbo. The scary experience I ever had was in a snowstorm.. it loved to spin. In other conditions it was fine. On a fun DRY curvy road it was magical.
Would love to see you test a MK1 MR2 and give your honest opinion
Probably best done on a track if it's damp ...
Revision 2 was adjusted to reduce lift-off oversteer.
The 911 suffered the same label for snap over steer. When you have a inexperienced driver in the seat of a vehicle to that's dialed in for high performance cornering the trade off is snap oversteer at the limit of the tires grip, and it takes a very skilled driver and practice to know where that envelope is but requires track time and variable conditions to understand what to be aware of before your rear end let's loose...
The rev2+ version of the mk2 (1991 onwards) had quite a few chassis revisions that made it a bit softer and more compliant - different castor control arms on front, different sized wheels and staggered width tyres, suspension toe control arms on the rear were 'longer' (fixed more towards centre of car) so less toe changes during suspension travel.
You need to try a JDM Mk2 Turbo - they are hilarious.
I brought one and it was a bit vague and not overly confidence inspiring. New shocks, springs and bushings changed all that.
I looked at getting one of these a some years ago but ended up with a Smart Brabus Roadster which is now long gone. Think I've missed the boat as the prices seem to be climbing on decent examples.
I've owned a couple of the import turbo version. One rev3 with an Apexi ECU dyno tuned to 305bhp. That was huge fun!
Had a mkII imported GLimited
Only hairy moment coming on to the M62 ….when I hit the accelerator on a slight crest.
Apart from that, (after a 911 & 3 Cayman S’s), still one of the best cars I’ve had…bulletproof
As always, fantastic, no bullshit video from Jack….you really nail it every time mate😎
Thanks I quite like the looks, and could certainly live with a revy engine, I ride a hyper bike 200hp and when you want to fang the twists there is nothing better than using the revs. I reckon some tweaking re motor and maybe suspension would customise a little without too much expense. Yep I like it, and would love a drive, we have some great roads here in Australia from very fast country to mountainous twisties. Take care
The first Honda NSX had notable front toe in and even more rear toe out, to make them very agile. The tires would last c. 5k miles if driven hard (as Mr Senna could do). Snap oversteer is an early 911, with the weight hanging out the back, if you lifted off mid corner. A properly set up MR2 is benign, like your lotus Elise, but a bit less agile because of the extra weight.
I aquaplaned my first 1995 T Bar in torrential rain on the A3 at around 40 mph and hit a stationary Multipla, I was working at a ski lodge in Bavaria at the time and my car control was pretty good, I think it was just physics… I bought another 1995 T bar within days and had a great deal of fun over the next 2 years before selling it, I loved that car
Absolutely brilliant video jack ❤👍what a lovely car at least it runs and drives better than a modern car brilliant
Rear toe is very important with both Mk1 & Mk2 MR2s. If they have toe out, they will drift with the slightest provocation. Fun on a circuit, not so much fun on the road with traffic around.
Was a passenger in a 1991 MR2 Turbo . Snap oversteer was frightening
I remember driving an h reg back in the 90's after having new tyres fitted. went round a bend at literally no more than 25/30mph and it swung round on me
There is a MR2 Turbo with 200HP version in North Am. Fun to drive. I've experienced a sudden snapped oversteer once.
I got an MR2 in red with T Bar roof loved it until wrote it of in a snap oversteer into a barrier. I then got a facelifted 1992 model in silver seemed to handle better. Loved it great car and fun to drive
Probably the best car I have ever had is my Rev 3 Mr2 Mk2 with a 3L V6 engine out of a toyota camry in it. It makes it a great car to drive and suited me very well, especially since the likes of ferraris etc were well out of my price range. I had it for almost 7 years until the dreaded tin worm (rust) took it's toll. I still miss it.
I wonder if those press reports are why Inchcape never officially imported the turbo into the UK? I always hoped they would as I ran MR2s in the 90s.
Great review Jack, addressing the elephant in the room. They aren't fundamentally dangerous cars in the accepted sense, rather they CAN be dangerous when pitched to an inexperienced audience!
The 1991-1992 car (in the US) did have a very high amount of lift throttle oversteer….. more than any car that I can recall driving. The 1993 onwards changes made a world of difference. I think my 1993 MR2 Turbo was one of the best handling cars I have ever owned…..and I’ve had some of the best
How utterly beautiful does this mr2 look, with no stick on tatt or aftermarket rims?
I found it to be light on the front end, but that’s to be expected.
My dad had a generation 2 Cressida with craaaaaaazy snap oversteer. It was a blast. Toyota loved the scary good fun back then, I guess.
Big Brother, Cellica Supra is here for anyone who wants it. It is blown engine in a remote Montana salvage yard. Got get it. You can have for free.
I owned one in the late 90s when it was nearly new. The grip was absolutely phenomenal but there was zero warning when it was about to let go. I wouldn't say it was dangerous. You'd have to be driving like a lunatic to lose control in one on the road.
The MR2 mark 1 was lethal in the wet. I rented one from Budget and it spun like a top 180 degrees on a corner. Lucky I wasn't even going fast. I was shocked😅
In Australia we got the turbo version which as well as the snail had an LSD, uprated gearbox and an LSD. This car was much more hardcore and the normal aspirated was bought by people wanting a more GT style car and the Turbo was the version for people wanting a sportscar.
I love all versions of the Toyota MR 2s, I totally enjoy this video & positive review
I drove RHD MR2 Turbo, about 280hp. It was made for Time Attack and I think it was quite wild ride.
Many years ago I worked on a project for Saab where I had the pleasure of working with a professional stunt driver. He told me that he had worked on the launch of this car in the uk. A number of journalists had spun these on their test drive, but he and his colleagues had noticed an interesting pattern. The MR2 was launched with two different brands of tyres (not uncommon in the industry), the drivers accompanying the journalists noted that all the cars that spun were fitted with the same brand of Tyres, none of the cars fitted with the other brand spun. In the later days of the launch, all remaining launch cars had their tyres changed to the same brand. Can’t remember the brands involved, sorry.
Wish you could get hold on one Corolla Ae92 Gt-i 16v either 116hp or 121hp version to test.
I have a '93, after the suspension as modified by Toyota to reduce oversteer. If anything, it wants to understeer, so lifting off or braking mid-turn is the only way to get the tail to come around if that's what you want. Otherwise, it isn't going anywhere.
I think Toyota should probably have covered themselves by getting their dealers to advise their customers that a mid-engined MR2 had very different handling characteristics to their run of the mill range.
good point.👍👍
I had an AW11 Mk1 when I was in my early twenties which I wrote off and rebuilt, Then later bought an AW20 Mk2 which I spun a couple of times in the wet during my ownership, Luckily I didn't crash or damage it both times but owning that car certainly set me up well for driving RWD & Mid Engined cars.
A friend of mine who had owned many and driven many more sports cars and GTs had MK1 and MK2 MR2s. Apparently the first couple of years of the MK2 had a tricky set up that scared even Dan Gurney but by the last two years of the MK2 they'd sorted it and it was a really great car overall.
I'll take either a MK1 or MK2 any day, especially a MK1 Supercharged. (My mom had a naturally aspirated MK1 when I was 18-26, and it was a lot of fun.)
Wasn't the supercharged version only available JDM? Japanese domestic market?
@@philipgreensmith1694 The supercharged was the MK1. MK2 only had NA and turbo.
@grimson yes I know that. Just didn't think we got it in England same as the mk2 turbo. Thought they were import only
@@philipgreensmith1694 I'm in the USA, was in California at the time. We got the supercharged MK1s and then the turbo MK2s each generation. I used to see the supercharged ones from time to time, mostly in white which looked good on the car.
We had a 1992 2litre car. For a sports car it was well designed with a lot of storage locations, and a good looking well made car, though the interior lacked flair. However, the engine was uninspiring, and it never made the right noises. Driving at any speed you could always sense the weight of the engine behind you. Enjoyed having the car but in the end not sorry to see it go.
08:26 this is exactly how I felt about about my mk2 mx5 - you had to rev it out to get half decent performance but unfortunately the engine sounded harsh while doing this.
Had a Mark 1, if the back went out it would always catch and then fling the car back the other way, like there was a lateral spring in the suspension. I could catch the second slide, but unless it was a slight drift it was impossible to catch the reverse snap. It was quite easy to get a gentle drift on a roundabout but even then the moment the tyres gripped was quite wobbly.
Great review and summary.
I had a lovely black Mr2, never had any issues because I know how to drive. My friend bought 1 because he liked mine. He crashed sideways into a lamppost on a roundabout after 1 day, write off. He was a person with a license who I’d say can’t drive for toffee. Basically it’s down the driver, not a noob car.
I had a the 1995 mk2 which had 173bhp, the most powerful n/a model they did, and it was not dangerous ( that's just click bait nonsense). I only span it twice, both booting it off greasy wet leaved roundabouts in MK. Totally my own fault and much deserved, don't do that! Treat them with respect and they're utterly brilliant. I really miss mine. Beware the imported turbo's though, loony machines those.
I had the original mk2 for four years and absolutely loved it. I’ve had far ‘better’ cars since then, but it remains the favourite car I have owned. It just needed a 3litre in it to make it better. Only dangerous for numpties with no reactions or finesse.
"This car oversteers."
*laughs in air-cooled 911*
I have found a few cars that are much harder to drive than the 911's I have owned. The very early SWB 911's are more difficult but still absolutely benign if your right foot was in the right place. My Subaru Legacy was far more prone to lift off oversteer than any 911 I have ever driven.
Never heard that about the Legacy!
I have just the tiniest experience with SWB 911s; rather more on them from the early LWB long-hoods up through 964 and a bit in 993. They're not the demons that some make them out to be, but you do have to be mindful of the mantra "don't lift Don't Lift DON'T LIFT" if you're gonna drive them hard! ;-)
I was, in part, commenting on the car that Jack started this channel out with. The reason why it is "Number 27". I believe it was one of the 964 RS models.
Nice Volkswagen bro
I've had two. Nightmare in a flurry of snow or a wet roundabout.