For the first time in my life, I've completely lost interest in new cars. There isn't a single car on sale today that I'd want. They're all too big, they're too complicated, with too much silly tech, and they're all far too expensive to own. Nowadays when I'm buying a car, I tend to choose from the 1980s catalogue. For me, that's the sweet spot.
I went to a massive car meet yesterday in the US and realized that if I had all the money in the world, there isn't a new car out there I'd want. The Lamborghinis look like Transformers, Ferraris are huge and clunky, McLarens don't work. But a Ferrari 328/355? Lotus Esprit? Yes please!
Lowest point in auto industry of not caring about customers is "everything touch-screen", "bits of piano-black here and there", "annoying beeps for everything" and "fake exhausts".
Oh they do care, there just is a shift in who is their key client. The interest in touch screen, tech, flashiness and all that is backed by many with money in different markets than Europe.
Hate the whole screen thing. I just want simple buttons, navigation from the steering wheel/voice, hydraulic steering, proper leather seats. Actually as I drive on winding rural roads, the touch screens and stupid layouts are unusable, they take too long to use and it's not safe to have my hands off the steering wheel for that long.
Most of the things mentioned in the video are regulations, tho. And even with Brexit: If the EU or the US (California has traditionally the strictest rules) demands some of the systems, this will also effect cars that are sold in the UK. The electrification happens regardless if the UK is in the EU or not. Even if it saves the tinest bit of emissions, manufacturers will build it in the car (electric steering for example). Safety is the second most annoying thing. Line assist, traffic sign recognition, speed warners, beeping sounds if you dont use your seat belt, beeping sounds if you are letting your engine running and open up the drivers door... Soon enough some of the regulators will demand that the cars need to send live data to them. So if you are speeding, you get fined instantly. One good thing, tho: Because of the tolls against Chinese cars. The chinese market will become less relevant for our industry. So maybe the cars will be more focused on our markets again (smaller grills, less touch screens).
I’ve changed my car religiously every 2-3 years since forever. Got to the end of my Tesla M3 pcp deal, looked at everything on the market and then decided to pay it off, keep it forever and bought myself a 20 year old boxster S for fun! There’s nothing new on the market that excites me
That was always the case - I just watched a black and white review from...1967 - it was a BMW new on the market and the tester complaint about the same thing. Inflation, ridiculous bla bla bla
I think we passed peak car around 2010 - 2015. There's so much power that can't really be used that is also driving up the price. It's a bit like having a stadium sound system at home. You might crank it up for a few seconds to impress your mates, but the rest of the time you don't turn the dial above 1
We said this in the early 2000s, that cars from the 1980s are "peak car", because they are more reliable and usually of better quality than 1990s cars, hava a bare minimum of electronics, timeless design and are enjoyable to drive. 😀
I agree I think 2010 was peak. They're modern enough to be used and enjoyed with some creatures comforts but not too modern that they lack emotion and are overly assisted
Yep. Anyone who thinks they need 500 or more bhp on the road is truly living in an alternate universe. They either have never driven such a car or they just like playing car top trumps down the pub with their mates. Whatever they are TOTALLY deluded.
Anything with that electronic centre console/infotainment is garbage. Cars before that (vehicles focused on being vehicles, not living rooms) were the tits
Couldn't agree more. I also think the styling has gone mad, almost every new car has the most awful, overly complicated and fussy styling. BMW is the worst offender, their new catalogue is butt fugly. Is the leadership at BMW blind? Who wants cars that look like that?? It starts with the supercars though...they're all just caricatures of the Countach now. Every Ferrari looks the same, utteraly ridiculous, and Lamborghinis are not special anymore...they're even more crass than they ever were, and they've lost their impact. THey just look pathetic now, I'm embarrassed for Lambo drivers.
Lamborghini and Ferrari have always been about exclusive pricing. People don't want a performance car to drive, they want something no one else can have. This is why most of those cars get sold 24 months after buying and rarely get driven over 2000 miles by new buyers.
Completely agree. Technology isn’t causing depreciation. Cars being made to look ridiculous by much cheaper cars being faster (through technology) causes depreciation. Changing appetites causes depreciation. Being a conspicuous consumer is soon going to be as fashionable as dating a 16 year old because you’re a rock star.
I’m working in the automotive industry and can confirm what Harry is saying. Many of us working there are car enthusiasts and also just want to have new simpler, fun and especially, more affordable cars. Unfortunately it is not possible anymore.. Regulations like UN-ECE forces just more and more mandatory equipment in the cars, all in the name of safety and environment which drives up the weight and especially the price of the cars. Then regarding the drop in value for the electric cars. Car manufacturers are also forced to push out electric cars to avoid hefty fines from the EU, therefore creating a big oversupply in the EV market. So almost everything comes down to the regulations and the lawmakers that instated them.
This is exactly the attitude as to why most legacy car makers are knackered. The entirety of the tech can be facilitated with a single Ryzen computer and one camera. Your entire ADAS suite in under a kilogram… yet legacy manufacturers are twatting about bodging third party system after system straight out of the Bosch catalogue. Do yourself a favour and learn from Tesla - perhaps then you won’t need to sell electric cars at a loss. If you can’t see that the legacy industry is being left behind then… I’m not surprised. At all. 😊
Isn't it the lobbyists of the car manufacturers that have the most say in what regulations passes, and when. They're the essential force pushing the lawmakers. So I don't know
Completely absurd tbh. These lawmakers have no understanding of the environment and it's complexity anyway and thing they are helping the "climate" with this nonsense. They are paid to make life worse for everyone, how can they sleep at night?
Whats the point of owning a performance car now? Uk roads look like the surface of the moon. Speed cameras everywhere. Traffic jams everywhere. Run of the mill(ish) golf r’s or any half decent ev are in the 4’s to 60mph, so the days of booting it off the line in your lotus esprit and leaving 99.9% of other road users in the dust are long gone. The buzz is gone. Performance cars now are pointless.
I think the point is many people like driving them. Pretty sure that hasn't changed since cars were invented. It would seem that in spite of every measure implemented to price average Joe out of his fun, he still finds ways to get some so the point is still very much relevant.
I think a lot of the "car enthusiast" crowd will disagree with you for several reasons, but typical drivers think exactly like this. The majority of people on the road don't enjoy driving, don't want to own anything beyond A to B vehicles of various sizes, and just want a cheap way to get around. They don't see the problems with the increased road nannies and restrictions on letting a car loose will cause ten years down the road, let alone what they're doing right now.
I've lost interest in supercars that's for sure. 100's of thousands, 700+ hp, and so expensive no one actually drives them. What's the point? So many people have a 10 year old car with 3k miles on it. Cars are for driving and using.
Which will only make the mass of new cars cater to our tastes even less Only affordable new car I'm interested in is the MX5 now. Ironic as it was a "girl's car" when I was a kid
There is a big reason now because these new car feels just like your average hybrid camery with 1000hp and sharper steering. They have lost the natural sounds, became heavy and lazy and no more emotional connectivity.
After 44 years of driving & haemorrhaging money on silly cars I bought a 12 year old Peugeot 107 (same as a Toyota Aygo) last year because I wanted to experience frugal motoring. I was expecting a miserable time but it's turned out to be a revelation. 1) The 1 litre engine is a peach. The sound reminds me of a Kawasaki ER6n I once owned. Very guttural and full of character. 2) It's slow but it feels fast. I have no chance in the traffic light grand prix now and it feels like a huge burden has been lifted from my shoulders. Everyone races away and I'm left to enjoy driving at my pace in my space. 3) My fun is experienced at legal speeds. 30mph to me feels like 50mph. 4) I thought I'd be bullied by other road users but the opposite has happened. Other drivers don't see me as a threat or a challenge and they leave me alone 5) People let me out at junctions 6) It's perfect for city driving and that makes up 95% of my driving these days 7) It's simple & I love it for that. Three spark plugs, one wiper blade & a full exhaust system that costs £120. 8) The only 'extras' I have are a rev counter, radio and electric windows in the front. That's it! The simplicity is refreshing. I feel like I'm driving a car again rather than being taken for a ride in an appliance. It actually feels and sounds like a modern classic. 9) I feel like I'm driving a motorcar again. It feels mechanical and connected. I feel like I'm back in the early 80s driving cars from that period 10) My annual bill has been a service and an MOT. That's it! It came to less than my colleague's monthly lease payment on her big daft SUV. There's no road tax either and I get around 60 mpg. 10) It's tough and capable. I put some Bridgestone Blizzak winter tyres on last autumn & winter and I got places where most couldn't including some 4x4s on their summer tyres. It was great fun pissing off drivers of Range Rovers as I easily kept pace with them. To summarise, I know this sort of car won't be for everyone but I'm sure some will be as enamoured as I am. It may not be a supercar but it's a super car. It's a keeper!
Another fun thing about compact city cars is that if you want to go faster, you have to drive better. You can’t just gather nerves and push your foot to the floor.
I had a Mazda 2 from 2009 up until this summer when I got a new Cupra Formentor. And except for that the Mazda was a bit noisy and had an actual hamster in wheel for an engine it was so good. The steering feel in that 15 year old car was SO MUCH better than in the modern car with electric steering. And don't even get me started on finding a parking spot in the city! On the other hand I'll be able to take my friends on a ski trip with the new car and that kinda makes up for a lot of its shortcomings.
So much resonates with why I love my Caterham. Simplify and add lightness, Colin Chapman was a genius and his legacy lives on. It is such a raw and genuine driving experience which puts a smile on my face with every single mile. Just 550kg S3 chassis with the 1.6 litre Ford Sigma engine. Oh! And proper dials none of this electronic nonsense.
that depends. Not helpful I know but it depends what you wish to go for and if you’re happy to buy second hand. You could buy a good example of an ex Academy car, a reasonable example should be in the region of £17-£21k with a 125hp engine which is a great entry level car. If you want to spend a little more money you could look at an ex Academy car that has been fitted with the Supersport upgrade (140hp). If you have in excess of £70k you could go for a brand new 620 which is a bonkers car. Have a chat with someone like Ian Payne down at PT Sportscars they always have some interesting cars in stock
The Emira is not worth what they are asking for it - it is a £50K car tops - its the same chassis as the old car - it looks pretty - but the V6 is from a Camry. Lotus, Porsche and Ferrari are taking the piss. Watch them drop like a stone.
@@simoningate2056I totally disagree. If you are buying cars on a “ top trumps” basis, then you may have a point. But….. the chassis is still world leading, so who cares if it’s brand new or not, the engine may have humble origins but it provides all the performance you need with a great sound track. The car looks fabulous, and looks every inch a supercar. Harry sold it too soon, he got spooked by all the flippers abandoning the car, ie the guys who measure cars by top trumps metrics and don’t actually care about how a car feels to drive.
the car market was always been fickle nonsense, the XR badge, water leaks, cut and shut, back street salesman winding back mileage, dodgy MOT's, car stereo theft, rust issues at 6 years old and so on and so on ! ... have a day off !
Too right. We are literally drowning in crap and over complex electric SUVs. The whole Ford car range now, apart from the Focus (which they are killing soon) and the Mustang, are bland overpriced five door SUVs.
@@truetothegame2928 Some cars in the past were crap but at least you had some choice and could actually buy something cheap or something exciting if you wanted to. Now if you want a new car it is simply a question of which bland overpriced identikit SUV you least object to driving.
I so agree. Glowing radiator grilles, crystal in the lights, like a Christmas tree drawn by a kindergartener, full of useless things, 2-3 or more screens, a Lotus weighing 3 tons (a Lotus, get it!?!) only Gordon Murray designs a decent car, but a mortal one can't buy it because of the price. I totally agree! The funny thing is that I'm a modern tech guy, I work in IT, I use the latest technology, but I'm a car enthusiast and no, I don't need 3-ton cars stuffed with unnecessary things. Simplify and add lightness!
My brand new royal enfield cost £3500. It doesn't have traction control. Doesn't have an electronic dash. It's an air cooled single cylinder. And I absolutely love it. It makes me grin from ear to ear and I could bin it and buy a new one every year and not loose as much money as buying the average, new small car.
Yes, motorbikes are still just as good as they've always been. Some would argue the best they've ever been because it's hard to buy a badly built bike these days.
Right with you on that, i wont trust modern stuff, bought a immaculate 96 VFR750 for £950, i will never lose a penny on it, as with the enfield, no silly electrics to worry about, fix it yourself. Screw the new stuff.
You are so right, I have a RE classic 350 and I love it. The Enfield is the main reason my 3.2ltr Pro Drive Alfa Brera hasn’t left the garage this year, I just love the simplistic joy of riding the Enfield.
Harry nails it with every sentence he says. Car manufacturers thought that high technology would attract younger generations, but younger generations are generally not able to earn that kind of money. And so, car manufacturers managed to produce only computer applications on four wheels that have a shelf life as an integral part. That's so sad and stupid at the same time.
Watch makers worried that technology would displace mechanical craftsmanship in the 70s. I think there are more mechanical watches dumped on the market today in a week than total output over a year in the 60s. Tech is fine for dull, everyday work or quick entertainment. Artisan creations, whether swiss watches or Italian exotica, demand a human element that mass produced tech can't reflect.
No he doesn't. He's just mad because his car collection is back-firing on him as younger drivers don't want those relics. Young people have ALWAYS wanted tech - not cars.
@@WardenOfTerra Younger people don't want cars full stop compared to the old days, so why pander to that decreasing market share ? This is a program about enjoying driving, which tech does nothing to address... it makes it easier to get from A to B, but does not make it more enjoyable. Why has Harry never tested the MX5 ? Simples ... PS I like your yourtube channel WardeN name so much I subscribed to join the lucky other 8 who cannot watch any videos ... schrweet !
@@zakelwe The idea that there are a minimal number of young car enthusiasts left getting REAL old at this point. The problem isn't presence, it's purchasing power. A lot of young adults can't even afford to live on their own in this economy, so buying a toy (which is what a sports car is) isn't a decision one can reasonably expect enormous numbers of them to make. Even a new base-trim Miata costs way more than what the vast majority of young people can afford. Wages haven't been keeping up with inflation, so disposable income can barely cover Netflix. Warden's take that youth want tech and don't give a toss about cars is pretty spectacularly off-base too, for a number of pretty basic reasons, the unheralded steadiness of human logic across generations chief among them. It's the desire for convenience that drives youth to embrace new technology - the same desire for convenience that compelled previous generations to fuel the popularity of the personal automobile in the first place. "If in doubt, blame the kids". What a diplomatic and coherent take, guys. I'm sure there's not a single 20-something enthusiast who will read this and take offense...... _oh wait._
Cars are depreciating because the population’s income can’t sustain the new prices. They immediately lose 20% VAT. Then they drop to a viable market price. When a family car is £40k + we are back to the 80s when having a new car was a big deal
It may indeed reflect the larger gap between the wealthy and middle/upper middle classes. The latter can’t afford the cars used that the former bought new.
Not totally sure about the logic here of blaming high car cost and depreciation on unnecessary tech. These cars, as said, hardly do any miles ever. Most are garage queens. Do those owners really care about how many buttons you need to press if you rarely drive the thing? I personally think there was a bubble around super cars in the last 15 years driven by low finance costs. Before that, they used to depreciate just like everything else. Car makers could see the demand and figured they were selling their cars too cheaply. Hence they responded by raising prices. Suspect that will end now. There's now deals to be done on new supercars.
Fabulous film as always Harry, thank you. A small but important point that I think should also be made is about the idea of product support - both necessary and unnecessary tech (even if of dubious need) is required to underpin the operation of all modern vehicles. OTA updates, in-service changes etc all the norm. No manufacturer of any product that has software and security as part of its makeup will support their products forever, be they cars or mobile phones or anything really. Eventually all products reach a stage where the factory will cease support, I think this will directly impact the future classic market as well as simply being a “too hard basket” situation for anyone wanting to purchase or collect something special to keep for the foreseeable future. The aftermarket may cater for some select models, but I fear that the tech has simply made modern vehicles into disposable devices, lease and turn over, rinse and repeat. Where this stands with regard to environmentalism is a whole other story…
This reminds me of a story a little while ago that owners of first-generation Nissan Leafs realised that, when the old 2G network was shut down in Britain, they lost a load of connectivity functionality overnight because the car couldn't communicate with its accompanying phone app anymore. What are they supposed to do about that?
As an A110 and 987 owner, I don’t understand the need for massive power and complicated drive train cars. The 987 Cayman was £11k, five years ago with reasonable mileage and good history. Best money I ever spent.
@@jakstrike1 Why not, if you've got the money? A110 is heartbreakingly pretty and the 987 makes wonderful 6-cylinder noises. Yeah, they're both lightweight MR sports cars, but hey maybe OP has a "type" hehe.
100% Harry. Totally agree 2014-15 was probably peak motorcar before the electronic assistants and infotainment screens took the lead over traditional looks, handling and performance.
Seven months ago we got a new Puma for my wife to drive but she just couldn't cope with all the tech, hated stop-start, hated the lane assist which if passing parked cars, going over the white line it would sometimes try to push you back into the parked cars and it was forever beep at her so we took it back to the Ford dealer and swapped it for a 2015 Fiesta, you just get in it start it up with the turn of a key, no annoying screen or bleeping sounds to distract you and now I have a very happy wife!
I'm not surprised. Most new cars are just terrible. The quality has plummeted, while the price shot up. And road Tax is £600 if you spend 40k, for 5 years !!!!! (on a 1.5 petrol for gods sake). The ride in my new Audi Q3 is just terrible. Don't buy a car built after 2008 is my advice. Stupid Tech, Stupid touch screens, Stupid LED lights that aren't adjustable and blind everyone. Stupid tyre repair kits. Stupid keyless entry. Thin steel. Dangerous Lane assist that steers you INTO parked cars unless you are indicating. I have to turn off 4 things before I set off. Keeps forgetting me as a user. I'll have to pay for features I already have after 3 years unless I pay a subscription. I long for my Mk4 Golf, or a even my Peugeot 306 was better. Frankly I would go back to my Triumph Acclaim if I could. The result.............the Government have driven us backwards to more polluting cars. Goodbye planet.
The new Dacia Duster has a single button (yes a real button) that you press twice to turn off all the driver aids, surely the new high end manufacturers could have done something similar. I actually like the new Duster for its simplicity, I never thought I would say that in my lifetime.
Faced with the very real possibility that we will soon need a newer family car to replace my 17 year old old Alfa 147, I am seriously considering a Dacia Duster. For basic commuting duty and as a child taxi locally it genuinely seems to be a good choice. Moreover, not a single person I've asked about them has much bad to say of the Duster. Your point here is a major advantage as far as I am concerned. Sure, it's not going to handle like the 147 but then that car is pretty much incompatible with the state of our current roads anyway.
Can't agree with Harry more on this video, I was over in the UK a few months ago and was staying with a friend. He drove around in his model 3 Tesla and he had all the alerts and alarms switched on. I've never heard a car beep so often, it was like driving around in a pinball machine, how do bureaucrats think anyone can concentrate on driving with so many distractions?
I followed one in town the other day, my God it was unpredictable, it kept braking for no reason over and over again. I kept a good distance behind it and was glad when it turned off, ironically without indicating!😂
@@paultune1696 It "breaks" when the driver lets go of the gas pedal, because it starts to automatically engage regenerative breaking. Really, really uncomfortable to drive behind, because you see the rear break lights flashing on and off, without the driver in the Tesla actually knowing
The bureaucrats follow the WEF's plan, they are not interested in road safety but, rather, in controlling the masses. But hey, keep voting for the same old system parties.
At one point i was driving a brand new then, 2021 911 GTS, and hours after i drove a 07 Cayman base model with 250hp ish NA engine and manual transmission, i loved it ! 😁
I think it’s a simple answer. New cars are VERY dull. How many in the last 5 years have come out and been loved? And I mean loved like the 458, 981, 991, Huracan Perf, Chiron etc. who cares about the 296, SF90 etc
We have a Volvo V70 estate it’s been in our family from new 25 years. It has never broken down. I can still buy parts for it. There is a Haynes manual, there is a wiring diagram, everything is traceable and can be fixed. The instruments are analogue and physical. The same won’t be true for most modern cars in 25 years time, it will be impossible to get replacement displays, sensors, batteries, control systems etc. it’s actually difficult now. We’re just replacing a 10 year old PHEV with a new one. The old one had an MOT advisory on a rear traction motor HV cable. Replacing just this cable takes 2 days and costs £1300 it was the last part available in the UK. We asked the main dealer to also do a battery health diagnostic. They politely declined as the diagnostic takes 2 days and has to be run outdoors, as the building uninsurable if the test is run in workshop overnight. The test can only be run outdoors at 10C ambient and above - so he said come back in April! Nuts…
I have an old Volvo I kept around to give my son. Like a lot of his generation, he has no desire to drive a car. So I drive it mostly to keep miles off my other cars. I can’t kill that Volvo for anything. It just keeps going and has a better ride quality than either of my Mercedes. 😂
I work in automotive R&D. When I had the 2024 safety regs explained to me I was in disbelief, then over the last couple of years every one of my friends that I mentioned them to thought I was making it all up! I'm convinced that they'll go down in history as a case study on the dangers of unchallenged committees and legislators. They're bringing a globe-spanning industry to its knees, with millions of jobs at stake.
They are pushing tech instead of good policy just like they did with EVs for everyone. They should have stuck to defining the outcome and letting clever engineers and scientists come up with cost effective and clever solutions. When the dust settles we will all find out that big tech and tier 1s were lobbying and “incentivising” policy makers to keep adding tech.
maybe thats the point of it all ? lets face it, the regulations arent written by people who love cars and driving. they are written by people who hates cars and loves public transport.
The reality is more people are getting killed by cars. The solution is stricter training and licencing, but that would be unpopular with voters, so we are now mandating tanks.
I sense you're right. The car manufacturing industry is at the beginning of its end. We'll all be in Chinese self driving cars in the not too distant future
That's still a manufacturer problem driven by keyless locks and ignitions no one asked for but make theft trivial. Governments need to step in and mandate proper theft protection, because manufacturers are making billions off insurance repurchases.
I think you have it a bit wrong. I have two engineer friends at BMW in Germany. They both stated to me that car manufacturers do not see cars as capital goods but rather as a luxury consumable, like a cell phone. Car manufacturers prefer you lease a car and replace it every 5 years. As soo As soon as the warrantee and maintenance plan period is over, the cars become worthless as car manufacturers deliberately make parts extremely expensive to maintain.
All about profits. I remember that some people at Mercedes has said in the past that they made the cars too reliable so they reduced the quality to make more money.
The other downside with all the extra tech... is privacy. Imagine how much data its collecting on you and selling on now. Why on earth do you need an account, subscription or to 'agree to terms' in any car?!
Pretty much sums up how I feel as well. A big part of a car’s appeal is the sense of freedom. Remember that feeling after first passing your test when it was just you and the car, and you didn’t have somebody in the passenger seat telling you what to do for the first time. To me, the tech on a modern car is the equivalent of having that instructor sitting there, telling you what you can and cannot do. It removes a big part of the sense of freedom and therefore the appeal. I have a 10 grand TVR in the garage which gives me far more pleasure than pretty much anything I could buy today would do. It’s light, analogue, simple, and my control inputs are connected by mechanical linkages with no electronic intervention . Granted, it wouldn’t see which way a modern equivalent went, but It’s more than fast enough in reality. And when I’m driving, it’s just me and the car, and it will let me do whatever I want with it. And because there isn’t an electronic safety net, it makes me a better driver. The fact that new performance cars major pretty much on outright performance and grip in a world where we have speed cameras everywhere, broken road surfaces and an increasingly intolerant approach to speeding is ironic be beyond belief. Okay, I’m cracking on a bit now being at the tail end of my 40s, but i genuinely don’t believe it’s just rose tints talking. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with missing light, simple cars that you connect with, and which don’t put every input you make through some kind of infernally beeping and bonging electronic committee. And no performance car should weigh over two tonnes.
All of this should be no surprise to you Harry. I worked in the motor trade for over thirty years. You can’t blame the increase in tech, and legislation for all the issues. Look at how many manufacturers were active in the uk market place twenty five years ago. Look how many there are now. There’s also the questionable increase in the cost of new cars to the consumer. After Covid, with chip shortages etc etc, the car makers had a field day. Now they’re reaping what they sowed. It’s a perfect storm of more competition, higher interest rates, the cost of living, and the political uncertainty in the world. The media are beside themselves to ridicule the depreciation of EV,s, but take a look at the other big losers in value. Super cars won’t be immune to this either. It won’t be long before cars seen as a safe place for your money, or an investment, suffer the same fate. This is not just a UK problem. It global. The big losers will be the more expensive cars, and the big manufacturers. There’s a dramatic change coming of the order of the global players. So called collectors and investors in cars, are going to feel the pinch, like any other sector of the market. The UK is not the place to enjoy a car, like it used to be. Other people have commented on the issues we have here. Adding to the perfect storm even further. I mean, who can excercise and enjoy a good performance car here anymore? The roads, speed cameras and restrictions,the extortionate cost of insurance, all make it not worthwhile. People used to aspire to a better or more expensive car. Not anymore. They usually choose to drive what their budget allows, after consulting the insurance quotes, service cost, and fuel prices. Unfortunately, this situation won’t resolve overnight. The next few years will be very interesting. Thanks for your quality content, as always, but I felt I would offer my opinion to the debate.
Absolutely spot on - The current situation is fundamentally a result of economics.. Supply and demand etc rather than any esoteric issue of technology, styling, EV's, culture and so on. Shutting down the global economy for covid... governments distributing vast sums of financial assistance which ended up creating massive moral hazard in the form of misdirected "investment" (spending), which in turn stimulated an enormous bubble in asset prices across multiple sectors (automotive included). We are now beginning to feel the consequences as the inevitable inflation has caused interest rates to shoot up (recent cuts are just a temporary pull back). This is likely to create some amazing opportunities for people to pick up some relative bargains in the used car market, but when the majority are struggling to pay rent on a modest flat, classic car ownership is way down the list of priorities!
Have to disagree. There has never been a time where I as a regular Joe could afford to enjoy a sub 4s car going 150mph on Autobahn, which costs me 30€/month to insure. These were privileges to the high society, not any more.
I bought new for years, BMWs, finance packages etc, just got fed up with both depreciation and the way new cars went with weight and tech. Now I’m quite content with my Mk3 Mondeo Ghia X and my E92 M3. Proper cars. Great video Harry.
@@MrGm182 Ghia X is a lovely car. My son has a 2.2 ST diesel which he really looks after. Its mapped and easily quick enough on 🇬🇧 roads along with 60mpg. I had a Ghia X and now Jag X-type 2.2 Sovereign which is really excellent.
And that’s another lovely car. I had the ST220 for a while years ago, but didn’t gel with, wasn’t as comfy, lovely sound from the V6, but firm, and the recaros weren’t as well fitting for longer drives than the standard seats, even the spec in LX was brilliant. I do love the MK3 mondeo.
You are so absolutely Right! I am 47 years old and a petrol head all my life. My current cars and bikes are all aging and I do Not feel desire to buy newer. I live in Germany - 5 Minutes from an unrestricked Autobahn, still always a nice feeling of Freedom 😁 - and here in Germany we do love our Automobiles. But to buy new or new-ish 🤔…hmm. Not if you have a love for the mechanical side of cars in my opinion. I actually sold all my newer stuff. I love my current older cars & bikes. From my 530d daily to my Classic Mini 1000, from my Ferrari 360 to my original Rickman CR750 bike (anyone out there still knows those…I wonder), and all else lurking in my garage… All old and all here to stay ! I do my best to hand down some of my Passion to my son, but for the rest…I think I’ll leave the modern tech stuff to the next Generation. Sad really…
You are so lucky having unrestricted road ,,,here in Australia it is all 110 kph maximum...just the same as it was 60 years ago , despite all the improvements in car and motorway design that have taken place since then.
Hi Harry. I have enjoyed your channel for years, wondering when you would finally reach the point of this video. So glad you have done so. I own an original MX-5 Miata that I bought new in October 1989. It is fully loaded and cost almost 18k when new. It has brought me more joy than any Ferrari or Lamborghini ever brought anyone, and I strongly encourage you to find and drive an NA Miata. It will answer most of your questions and fill your days with fun. It’s not too late, my friend. All good wishes from Iggy in Oregon USA!
I bought a 2024 2 litre Mazda MX-5. One button turns off the stupid speed warning sound and I’m off. A blast to drive. Simple and with nothing mediating the connection between the driver and the road. A keeper.
The volume of Supercars coming out, is way to high. I stop careing about every new Lambo variation years ago. Same with McLarens. They all look almost the same, there is nothing special about them anymore. A Ferrari F40 was an icon right away. Porsche Carrera GT. Lamborghini Diablo. Porsche Turbo in the 80s. They all felt special..
Absolutely! A new supercar was an event, look how long we had the Countach until we got the replacement in the Diablo. Give us something to be excited about not more of the same thing.
Yep, I agree about the F40. I got up close to one just after it came out in a car show room in Milan, and I wandered in, the door was open because a fellow was sweeping the steps, I got some funny looks, and as it turned out you had to be buzzed in. A was said about it, road, seat, arse, just like my Westfield. My my four car garage. McLaren F1, F40, a Caterham R620 and a VW van for daily driver.
You make some very valid points. Begs the question, what happens when the manufacturer ceases to support your car's operating system? As Microsoft are want to do with their previous versions.
I recently bought a new car (mazda 3 GT ) didnt like all the electronic nanny tech , info screen up high on the dash distracting you from the road , warnings going off if you driving over the limit etc , sold it and bought a used low mileage Subaru BRZ, love it , just get in and drive , don't miss the tech at all.
We have GT86 as the second daily, its so refreshing to get behind the wheel, appart from the fun driving experience the lack of everything is so nice. No beeping, no modes, endless warnings etc
GT86/BRZ are an amazing bargain driver's car. I've had a GT86 for 7 years and it's lost about £1,000 a year. I like it so much I've kept it despite buying an Emira 14 months ago. The Emira has lost about £25k in just over a year, BUT, unlike Harry's, mine is a keeper so that initial depreciation doesn't really matter so much when you keep cars for 10+ years.
I leased a 2014 E-class once and it had vibration in the steering wheel and alarms when you drove over road lines and it was voluntary. At least other lane assist things were optional.
We’re still in our 2017 Superb Estate family wagon (bought new), because the replacement is £40k+ vs. £24k for the ‘17. And will the ‘24 be worth any more than our old soldier in 7 years??? Probably not. Money staying in my pocket. Dealer just said ‘well, everything is more expensive these days…’ yeah, but I don’t have to buy it, do I? 😂
@ 1.4T petrol. We’ll get another year’s warranty on it in June (£180 for the top one from Skoda 👌) and make our mind up in summer ‘26. They ran that model for so long, no point in changing sooner and then the new one is nearly 2x the price. Did about £1500 on warranty this summer, albeit at main dealer prices / genuine parts. I daily a mk7 Golf R, and the Skoda puts it to shame in many ways.
@@rossmingay26 the way things are right now, I’d probably get a lightly used Merc Estate as the replacement family wagon… let someone else get hurt over the first 2 years and then run it to 100k.
6:19 The move to electric steering principally came about as a cost cutting/efficiency exercise, lane assist is just a peripheral benefit or curse. No pipe work or power steering pump means very much easier/faster production line assembly and reduced parts cost. No engine driven pump means better fuel economy / emmissions. The downside is reduced longevity, you won't see used cars with working electric power steering in 30 years time, the old pump and pipes syastem is pretty bomb proof.
When the EU pitches something as 'X', you immediately know that it's _not_ 'X'. You still don't know what it _actually_ is, but based on the simple fact that they try to tell you it's 'X' you can absolutely rule out the possibility that it may in fact be 'X'.
@patstoob So here's the thing, on my car I was looking for a setting & couldn't find it. I checked on UA-cam videos & looked through the manual to ensure it wasn't me being dumb. I contacted Mercedes to ask, & after a bit of investigation, they reckoned the previous owner had many of these systems coded out. They asked me to bring the car in & quoted £2500 to flash the ECU back to factory spec. Fuck that! It's staying as it is!
@JustAnthonyX the black helicopters will be circling your location soon!! On a serious note, is there anyway to forsee this before buying a secondhand car? Its something i would look out for.
@@JustAnthonyX Why charge more than, at most, the labor cost to return to spec the car you designed and built and now continues to speak for your brand?
@@NOXStellansNo idea mate. But there's no way I'm paying £2500 for something I've lived without most of my life. Mercedes weren't surprised either. It seems a lot of people must be coding these things out, hence the EU insisting on enhanced cyber-security measures.
There's an element of things reverting back to normal here. Supercars used always depreciate badly, it's only recently that they've held their value fairly well. Similar sanity returning to the luxury watch market as well.
Anything with a battery - full EV or, to a lesser extent, hybrid - is going to depreciate heavily, because batteries (traction batteries, not 12v ones) last 8-10 years typically and cost a kidney to replace. Replacement often requires massive strip-down and almost complete re-build of the vehicle in high performance cars. I have to agree with Harry that cars are becoming more portly and less attractive or elegant. Like people generally, really...
bought a 31 year old midnight purple yamaha yzf750r 1993 for 1800 euros. It is the best and by far the most freeing and liberating and joyful experience money could ever buy. So I completely agree on your view about bikes Harry.
@@truantray Fair point, but it's worth noting that even a little old EK or EF Honda Civic used to be a well-integrated and reasonably-sized package. Look back only about 15 years and every carmaker had _something_ in their range that, featureless or well-appointed, pulled off what it needed to elegantly and without clutter. Many of them were legendarily reliable (like the aforementioned Civics).
You hit the nail on the head. I HATE all of the invasive tech on new cars, as well as the associated bloat and cost. The tech greatly detracts from the enjoyment, and adds very little to performance, if anything. I don't need the internet, etc., and don't need the car to maintain distances, tell me when to brake (or brake for me), when to change lanes (or grab the steering wheel), etc. Just give me a new analog car with antilock brakes, minimal traction/stability control, etc. with the ability to turn off whatever I want and keep it permanently turned off (unless I intentionally turn it back on again). That's what I want. I'm a car fanatic and have plenty of discretionary income, and it seems so simple, yet nobody seems to care.
> Worried about the amount of tech because it drives depreciation > Sells the emira because it's depreciating even though it has no tech Several factors all at once IMO. I think most of this is correct, the gobs of tech will permanently crush value on the heavy, complicated, modern models. But concurrently, in the short term, the market has softened and will probably bounce back for the low tech cars like the emira, just like it did for the elise. Same reason why the modern 911 has held on to its long term value so well but has softened a bit in the last year.
It's the expected result of greed. Today's economy expects you to buy a new car every 5-6 years and we're treating cars like they're expendable and should be thrown away after 10 years. More and more people can't afford any cars, let alone some fun cars or expensive cars. That being said, cars as an investment...well...it's not like a lot of us can afford several cars. Maybe some are lucky to have 1 project car, potential investment....but only really rich folks can afford to be collectors who have many many cars, so naturally, their market is also falling apart. Greed is ruining everything.
Okay let's address something. Despite everybody's personal believes, cars are getting CHEAPER. Except some brands like Ferrari, cars are getting CHEAPER. A 5 series bmw is now CHEAPER than it was in the 2000s, even more if you account for extra features/performance and safety. You may or may not like new cars. But cars are NOW CHEAPER. The automobile manufacturing industry is WAY LESS profitable than many other bussiness, stellantis managed to score 11% margins ar the expense of future developments, Volkswagen struggles with 4%. Stop blaming GREED because manufacturers are not greedy, they just adapt to our money DEPRECIATION. Its governments and central banks draining our savings via inflation to fund their insane expenses. Literally do the math for any car, from a seat leon to a bentenly continental, they are all now comparatively cheaper when adjusted for inflation. If we keep blaming manufacturers we let the politicians win, because nobody points at them. Please please please, learn to read the situations correctly. The reason cars depreciate is because nominally the prices have gotten so big relative to salaries that we simply don't realise that is actually the current market cost for some of them and 15 year old cars are still very very good products if well kept.
@@comeberza This is categorically untrue. Cars today are more expensive than ever before. Inflation is higher than ever and new cars are more expensive than ever. Cheapest new car now costs avg 10x monthly salary, whereas before it was cheaper.
People don't buy cars. They lease them. And that is part of the problem in terms of prices going up. People who go out and buy a car in one hit, who care about that headline cost, aren't the priority anymore.
@@comeberza yes inflation makes everything look expensive. But weirdly inflation doesn't affect worker's income, they remain roughly the same. Huh. Greed it is.
I have a TVR Griffith and it's wonderful for all the reasons you stated for being totally analogue, rare and most of all financially accessible from buying to maintaining ! Sounds fantastic and I adore it
@@Costa_del_Artlepool I've never really checked MPG however I suspect it's around 20 or so. It doesn't get driven more than a couple of thousand miles per year so isn't an issue. It's weird you get to love the smell of these classic cars. The TVR smell is a small blend of hot fibreglass, glue, oil, petrol and huge dose of nostalgia!
Couldn't agree more. And I've just ordered a Moto Guzzi V100 Mandello and I took the _lower_ spec one that does NOT have the electronic Ohlins suspension or the quick shifter or the tyre pressure monitor or the new radar. I just want a mechanical machine.
I sold my 2006 astra 1.8 sri estate earlier this year, having bought it when it was six months old. Apart from consumables the only things that needed replacing were the tailgate latch, starter relay and coil springs, plenty of potholes in Devon. I consider that, 17 years of cheap motoring.
25:37 Interesting. I was looking at a new Supra to replace my ageing 987 5 sp Cayman of 2008 vintage. The price of the new Supra is around the same $ as my Cayman when it was new say AUD $110K. MY 2008 Cayman is currently worth about $60k. A 4 year old Supra? About the same, $60k. So depreciation on the Supra is sudden and massive. Im keeping my Cayman, thankyou. I will never buy a car with a battery and electric engine. Period. The European car industry is destroying itself with EV and PHEV. No true enthusiast wants electric cars. And their massive depreciation is proof.
We have moved into an era where cars are 'mechanically' totaled even though they look perfect and the mechanical components are still viable but the cost to diagnose and repair electronic faults exceeds the value of the car. Good luck fixing a faulty module on a limited production supercar in 10-20 years.
Good luck now. A friend of mine in Florida had Lamborghini buy back his new car. They had it 6 months and still could not fix it. He drove it for a month before it broke.
Yes this is true. I have a customer with an Audi RSQ8 that had a minor front end collision...2 headlights and the grille cost $22000 for just those parts before labor
Car price raising means currency’s purchase power is lower, and it was cause by money printing. Not high tech, not computer, not AI. Cars will eventually come back to its original purpose after economic crushes.
Digital obsolescence seriously affects resale as the technological advances come so quickly and totally supersede the previous design. Older digital designs are not supported, and are often not interchangeable with new ones.
@@primafacie6442 Watching Matt Armstrong dealing with software programming on cars only a couple of years old shows you what's coming down the line. If one module doesn't talk to other things it's a cascading effect and nothing works.
I was talking to a friend recently about how I could remember used but not old Ferraris being within reach for people with a relatively well paid job. That hasn't been the case for ages.... until now. All the assistance tech would be ok if it worked totally reliably. Great video as always
The Alpine A110 is another positive example: In Switzerland you cannot find an A110 below 50k CHF. I bought mine for something like 57k four years ago. Great cars, everyone who likes a no nonsense lightweight car: Get one before they go out of production soon. You will be mad at yourself forever if you don't
Agreed, and probably the crucial reason why I decided to buy a second hand Alpine A110S earlier this year. I think it’s the best compromise between driving feel, reliability, running costs and residual value. It doesn’t consume a lot of fuel, is cheap to maintain, rather cheap to insure. The only thing I’m dearly missing is a manual stick, and that makes me tempted to switch to an Exige. But running costs on an Exige would be higher. I am very confident I could sell my A110S for the same price or for more than I bought it for, and that is truer for certain versions of the car in particular: the A110S with the aero package has great resale value while the A110GT depreciated slightly more.
I just bought my wife a new Discovery. We picked it up on Thursday. It has no switches - everything is done via that accursed damn screen. Can't even turn the flipping air con up or down without using the screen. Every time you go fractionally over the speed limit its making bonging sounds and don't get me started on the bloody lane assist. She seems to be reasonably immune to these annoyances but I don't think I could stand it. 'They' intend to chase almost everyone off the roads and I wonder if this is part of the plan. I don't know, but I do know that everything horrible politicians want to implement is done under the pretence of it being for our good.
@@bovedli You should do a little research as to what is going on in the world with regards to the influence that the likes of the World Economic Forum has on our MPs and Ministers that regularly attend its globalist conferences in Davos Switzerland every year. They don’t want people to travel around and are using a certain climate narrative to achieve their goal. The Mayor of London is chairman of the global C40 cities agenda. Look up 15 minute cities , it will horrify you.
@@bovedli in fairness, I didn’t buy it by mistake. I couldn’t live with it but she already loves it and it’ll be fine for her. I guess it comes down to what you want from a vehicle and my wants are completely different to hers!
I really do think that this is your best video ever! Would'nt change a single word of what you said. Thank you for being so open, so unconventional and for inviting us all to your garage. This video will be a classic in 50 years from now. Greetings from Lisbon.
I recently went to the Paris autoshow. Everything was dominated by EVs, big screens and technology overload. The young chaps running the VW stand couldn't understand why I didn't like the lack of physical controls in their cars for even the most basic things (e.g. climate control.) Kids don't seem to care, but are they customers? They can't afford the cars, that's for sure (and a lot of them know it, a roof over their head is already a challenge.) For me, it was amusing to watch so many of them fooling around with the car screens (or their phones.) Their interest in cars seems very different to mine. IMHO, the transition to driverless cars/taxis might be easier in the future than we currently imagine, but it'll be a very different world after that. I think we're a dying breed. A lot of the big brands which we so admire may very well be gone before we know it.
"kids dont seem to care but are they customers" they will be lol this entire comment section is just a bunch of boomers crying about tech and touch screens, some things never change
@@dddd-uk4vn Sorry to have triggered you my friend. The young in the market for 70k family haulers? "They will be" - reality says different. Factories are closing and jobs are being lost by the thousands because they can't move these things. I have no problem with technology per se (worked for almost 3 decades in tech), this is about designing cars fit for purpose, not for children that can't keep noses out of their phone screens for more than 30 seconds - even at a car show! It's long been noted that interest in cars by the younger generations (millennials, etc) has been waning and you simply have different priorities...
I think you hit the nail on the head here, imagine the young people can even put up no go zones for petrol cars making them unusable in the end. There will come a time where driving your own car is ancient tech
You've got the nail slap bang on the head (as usual). Most who are in the market for performance vehicles want to DRIVE them, not be nannied by them. I've got a couple of what would now be classed as "Classic" bikes, a naked '98 Suzuki 1200 Bandit and an '82 RD350LC, complety different bikes in looks, riding styles and performance, but they're "analogue" and all the better for it. The last modern bike I had needed a laptop to change anything as regards engine performance and so many "modes" I just couldn't be bothered with them. Nice bike, but soulless which is where we are with the current crop of supercars!
Mandatory lane assist, start stop and traction control are ruining cars, I need to turn that crap off at the start of each journey, going back to older cars now.
Excellent talking points. The escapism and passion we used to have with cars has left the car market. The current market does not reflect what customers actually want.
Looking backwards then I think peak car was in the era of E46 M3CSL/E39 M5 - sadly all over by 2004. For the next 10 years we had increases in complexity due to safety and emissions regulation and this pushed up costs to buy repair and insure. For the last 10 years the industry has spectacularly lost its way on the back of cheap finance (now gone). Great commentary Harry - will get a lot of views!
@@floriandugoli5923ah! I can understand the perception, in reality, the S54 have their issues - VANOS is problematic and they also require rod bearing service, although to a lesser frequency.
Still running around in '51 3.0s e39. I came to this conclusion sometime ago about the general direction of motoring. It has all the tech I need except an integral sat-nav system, it's ulez compliant, so I'm keeping it going.
The thing that making me upset is in France we have so many speed bumps (huge ones sometimes) and even traffic lights that turn red when you arrive (even if there is nobody the other way) just to stop you for a few secs and then goes green again and all those things to make you slow down and then accelerate again. When actually this is exactly what make cars consume more fuel. And yeah the weight of cars is crazy. My swift sport burn only 5L/100km, and I am often car sharing. I am pretty sure that my tiny sport car overall has a smaller environmental impact than a big hybrid/EV car. I mean they should encourage more car sharing and light cars
Man... I am 36 years old white collar and I work at home with one laptop almost 10 hours everyday for trying understand lots of financial data... Make presentations, meetings... No matter how hard I work it's never enough. My job is going to be more complicated everyday. When i am trying to explain my job to my father he does not understand why it must be this much complex. Because in his head you make something to sell and sell it one price.... In summary modern life has to be complex in every way... They say technology makes our life more easy and i say big NO !
@@Rambolambo88 i understand you my friend i am in technology industry also in business/marketing side. I just want quit and living with one sheep on the top of mountain :)
Move into a business or service that requires more people skill and interpersonal work. I’ve been lucky to make a career, self-employed, in bookkeeping, helping small business owners make sense of technology, compliance, and the health of their businesses. That’s just one of many examples of specialty areas where personal relationships and trust allow you to expand into your capabilities.
I bought a Peugeot 205 and I’m finishing repairing it to its glory! It’s going to be so much fun 😊 on the road! No fading plastic headlights (hard glass) solid bodywork; seat belts with no pre tensioners, no air bags, no electric windows, no AC, no ABS, No power steering 😅, no electric fuel pump, no Cat, no alarm, and a after market cd/radio (FM) :💯 fun
Exactly yes 🏆👍 I bought a new 1.9 GTI in 1989 from minories of Newcastle & it was one of the best drivers car I ever had & our family have had Imprezas, DB7s jaguars porches etc etc . Older cars are no fuss good drives with buttons & sliders . Enjoy 👍
I agree with everything you've said, Harry, except with one caveat: If my son or daughter announced they were getting their bike licence I would be truly concerned for their safety. There's so many people on our roads who simply have no idea what they're doing behind the wheel. This tech (although I don't like it) is who it's aimed at.
Came off my bike aged 19..bit scratched up..could have been worse. Decided that cars were safer. My closest friend carried on and worked his way up to Ninjas and Fireblades. He died in a crash in 2008, on his Fireblade.
@@mikea5205 Tests have never been more difficult objectively speaking both from a criteria standpoint and the roads themselves (too many people), watch a driving instructor channel and see non-learners reattempt a test, the majority fail because they can't be bothered checking blind spots or indicating. The real issue is three things, this country has mass migration, it's the only reason the population grows at all, all of the foreign license holders can drive on their license for a year before needing to pass a UK driving test. Have you seen driving standards in India? Pakistan? Bangladesh? secondly the roads are overcrowded, population density it the highest in Europe on crap roads with poor markings, lastly the average population age is older and older each year, got old folk all over the road.
The “next” generation of personal transportation needs to arrive. Whatever that is. I’ve owned it all. Nothing, NOTHING excites me anymore. It’s all turned to either stoic art…or garbage.
Harry gets it spot on again. I watched his review of the latest Aston. Ridiculous, 5 minutes of switching crap off on your drive before you can pull away. No, sorry, I just won't do it. And I don't have to. I love my two relatively high end 20 year old cars (Audi and Merc) . I do few miles (
Bang on! I recently traded in my Audi A6 sloon, 3L V6 quattro automatic, 18 years old, for a 12 year old A6 Avant, 3L V6 quattro automatic. The difference in performance is notable, the newer one is faster and has some gizmos the old one didnt, like satnav and parking aids, but otherwise it's just a great car to drive. Get in, start up...and go! Nobody tells me what to do, just a very discreet "bong" and message to suggest that it's time to re-fuel. At the price I paid to change, some folks spend on a fab holiday for the family, but I look out the window at my Avant and just can't wait to drive it again. "THEY" do not want you to have such feelings...
I think all the 'safety' tech in cars is actually making driving more dangerous. People are less aware of what the car is doing and rely on lane assistance, radar, sign monitoring and they let the car do it and stop thinking about it themselves. People are inherently lazy and as soon as you give them an aid they lean on it. I think if we look at the standard of driving in the past fire years it proves the point perfectly
That's a fair point. I always felt the focus on occupant safety, crash protection, etc. meant cars became more dangerous: you couldn't see out of the damn things, blind spots everywhere. And people became too insulated. Make everyone learn to drive in an original Mini, let them feel vulnerable!
Just spent a weekend in a new q8 with the alerts & screen 'down low', most dangerous experience in recent memory constantly looking down to see what is pinging and making a noise !
Don't forget that same as with automation in aircraft, it will come at as not a good idea with time as thought because sooner or later some thing will happen that kills that the engineers couldn't think of out of various reasons.
Faffing about with the driver ‘aids’ is more dangerous than using a phone. i loathe it. Going to South Africa in January for 3 months hired myself a Busso engined Alfa 156 for the whole time. JOY
This is definitely the case. My lane assist shat itself through some roadworks when the lanes narrowed, passing a lorry on the left and concrete to the right - it started autosteering and pinballing between them. And auto emergency braking, while I understand why it's a thing, it's like driving with a nervous passenger with their own brake pedal, which you simply would never do.
Wow new cars depreciate, who could have imagined? Very expensive cars will, naturally, depreciate by huge amounts. If you enjoy your car, perhaps an Emira, who cares if it's worth less than you bought it for, that's *always* been the case. Cars don't generally increase in value until they've been out of production for years--when they become classics.
Love the shout-out to Jay Emm. Terrific presenter in my opinion, really like him a lot. Funny, extremely articulate, very knowledgeable, and very humble. Love his channel.
Funny, I feel like I’d much rather get a pint and chat cars than watch his videos. Don’t like the scripted nature of it and much prefer Harry’s natural presentation
I’ve lost interest in modern cars, I literally know nothing about the current BMW range for example, but could recite specs for them from 1980 to 2014. The issue is that there aren’t any “car people” coming through to want the cars and that’s only just starting. I’m planning to buy my perfect pre 2018 family car (sporty as possible) and hold on to it until it dies! That’s a sad fact as a chap that goes to 10+ car shows a year and owns a Mk1 golf GTI.
@@boopadin Are you referring to UNECE and the FIA? Or some driving power behind those organisations? Or more broadly the World Forum for the harmonisation of vehicle regulations?
@@BobCarolgees-p8f To be quite honest, much as I hate such an idea and all that it would mean about monitoring the population, if that is how the future is to be then give me the fully functional service for which the government is entirely responsible when things go wrong. At least that would make the design of the system simpler. No need to take into account random or erratic actions from humans. If journeys need to be even slower to make the system work, so be it. At least the travellers could do something useful for themselves whilst travelling. Self conducting vehicles on the HS2 structures might make those structures somewhat useful too.
One important point i think he misses with regards to the regulated tech in these cars is the ability of the government to disable your car if they so wish, whether that's because you've exceeded your 'carbon footprint' for the month or whether tax and insurance has expired. Also, every car with a built-in Sat nav, speeding tickets could be automatically given whenever a speed limit is breached. Fines will be automatically deducted from bank accounts. In theory, speeding will be impossible without a fine.
You're SO right, Harry. Cancelled my subscription to modern car mags a couple of years ago. Will have to keep my 2018 Mustang (and 1973 Alfa and 1987 Ferrrari) forever now. Don't bother with new car reviews, they're all dross!
They're designed to sell advertising space, not inform customers, that's why you won't get an honest review out of them (Motor magazine in Australia had this issue a few years ago where they crowned the EQC Car of the Year...guess who was a major advertiser in their magazine?)
Many potential reasons ; 1) GOV mandated penalties for not selling sufficient EVs in the mix so prices go up to cover the liability but can't be sustained/justified in a used model. 2) The Tech that Harry refers to that adds complexity and cost competition for the Chips that can't be justified by the 2nd hand purchaser. 3) Finance middlemen that have supported the increase in list prices by providing the funding to allow the purchase at prices beyond the normal persons ability to pay out of income. Come the 2nd hand purchase those customers cannot fund the expected residual. 4) Initial purchases being Company or business financed in most cases and the 2nd hand private market can't absorb the expected residual. 5) Private consumers are maxed out and a) are young and don't drive/don't want cars, reducing the market, b) simply unable to finance the expected residual. 6) GOV generally making motoring much more expensive year on year and basically forcing people away from ownership reducing the potential market. I'm sure other will add some more.
ah yes the tech that's so expensive you can only find it on the highest of high end cars and notat literally any pricepoint. the goddamn Dacias have all the tech so that argument just doesn't work
Excellent points,all of them. I would add pathological hatred of cars by climate taliban which has taken over governments around the world. Just one pearl from here in Haarlem,Netherlands - "Green party" in our municipal government succeded 3 years ago in closing down of all local Shell gas stations (!) because Shell "isn't doing enough in lowering its carbon emissions". In Switzerland few elderly ladies sued their own government for "polution" (co2!),here in Netherlands too,and THEY WON. We are pouring concrete in our own gasfields just like you british into your old coal mines to prevent us to use them ever again. The lunatics have taken over the asylum.
Excellent and fairly accurate points. Especially #3, without the finance industry they can't play these games. Nobody would buy. Same as the healthcare industry in America, without financing from health insurance companies hospitals and Big Pharma would not be able to charge what they charge here.
PCP madness in the UK, meaning you’ll own nothing and be happy 😉 I have family who drive new cars, yet they are so cash poor, they couldn’t afford a set of tyres tomorrow; let alone the massive balloon payment.
hit the nail on the head regarding driver involvement Harry. Emotion is key and manufacturers seem to be forgetting this. Good for us that build Restomods though!
For the first time in my life, I've completely lost interest in new cars. There isn't a single car on sale today that I'd want. They're all too big, they're too complicated, with too much silly tech, and they're all far too expensive to own. Nowadays when I'm buying a car, I tend to choose from the 1980s catalogue. For me, that's the sweet spot.
I went to a massive car meet yesterday in the US and realized that if I had all the money in the world, there isn't a new car out there I'd want. The Lamborghinis look like Transformers, Ferraris are huge and clunky, McLarens don't work. But a Ferrari 328/355? Lotus Esprit? Yes please!
Couldnt agree more! I also like the 90s catalogue though
Completely agree. We're oversaturated with hypercars to the point i just don't care anymore.
Same…wish they still made the original VW beetle. The ones I had I could service and maintain myself and get me from A to B without any fuss
@matthewgodwin3050 lexus lc500
Forget 0-60 times, the new metric is how fast can you turn off all the driver assist bullshit.
lol
:-D
The new 992.2 GT3 has a special page (as suggested by customers) where you can turn of all the 'driver aids' quickly! 😂
LMAO amen to that
Exactly annoying park assist (Audi) that automaticallly puts on an electronic brake
Lowest point in auto industry of not caring about customers is "everything touch-screen", "bits of piano-black here and there", "annoying beeps for everything" and "fake exhausts".
We surely live in awful times.
Oh they do care, there just is a shift in who is their key client. The interest in touch screen, tech, flashiness and all that is backed by many with money in different markets than Europe.
Your dead right. we have had VW Golf GTI and R models since 1990.their customer service is absolutely appalling.they could not give a dam,
Hate the whole screen thing. I just want simple buttons, navigation from the steering wheel/voice, hydraulic steering, proper leather seats. Actually as I drive on winding rural roads, the touch screens and stupid layouts are unusable, they take too long to use and it's not safe to have my hands off the steering wheel for that long.
Most of the things mentioned in the video are regulations, tho. And even with Brexit: If the EU or the US (California has traditionally the strictest rules) demands some of the systems, this will also effect cars that are sold in the UK. The electrification happens regardless if the UK is in the EU or not.
Even if it saves the tinest bit of emissions, manufacturers will build it in the car (electric steering for example). Safety is the second most annoying thing. Line assist, traffic sign recognition, speed warners, beeping sounds if you dont use your seat belt, beeping sounds if you are letting your engine running and open up the drivers door... Soon enough some of the regulators will demand that the cars need to send live data to them. So if you are speeding, you get fined instantly.
One good thing, tho: Because of the tolls against Chinese cars. The chinese market will become less relevant for our industry. So maybe the cars will be more focused on our markets again (smaller grills, less touch screens).
I’ve changed my car religiously every 2-3 years since forever. Got to the end of my Tesla M3 pcp deal, looked at everything on the market and then decided to pay it off, keep it forever and bought myself a 20 year old boxster S for fun! There’s nothing new on the market that excites me
The cost of new cars is ridiculous!
There are so many financing options these days, more poor people are buying expensive cars than ever before..
@@the8419it’s not about being poor 🤡
That was always the case - I just watched a black and white review from...1967 - it was a BMW new on the market and the tester complaint about the same thing. Inflation, ridiculous bla bla bla
And it’s as simple as this !
An electric Fiat 500 £40k…… 😂🤡😂
I think we passed peak car around 2010 - 2015.
There's so much power that can't really be used that is also driving up the price.
It's a bit like having a stadium sound system at home. You might crank it up for a few seconds to impress your mates, but the rest of the time you don't turn the dial above 1
We said this in the early 2000s, that cars from the 1980s are "peak car", because they are more reliable and usually of better quality than 1990s cars, hava a bare minimum of electronics, timeless design and are enjoyable to drive. 😀
I agree I think 2010 was peak. They're modern enough to be used and enjoyed with some creatures comforts but not too modern that they lack emotion and are overly assisted
Yep. Anyone who thinks they need 500 or more bhp on the road is truly living in an alternate universe. They either have never driven such a car or they just like playing car top trumps down the pub with their mates. Whatever they are TOTALLY deluded.
Anything with that electronic centre console/infotainment is garbage. Cars before that (vehicles focused on being vehicles, not living rooms) were the tits
Couldn't agree more. I also think the styling has gone mad, almost every new car has the most awful, overly complicated and fussy styling. BMW is the worst offender, their new catalogue is butt fugly. Is the leadership at BMW blind? Who wants cars that look like that?? It starts with the supercars though...they're all just caricatures of the Countach now. Every Ferrari looks the same, utteraly ridiculous, and Lamborghinis are not special anymore...they're even more crass than they ever were, and they've lost their impact. THey just look pathetic now, I'm embarrassed for Lambo drivers.
The tech that is available in $30k cars is not making Lamborghinis cost $700k.
Lamborghini and Ferrari have always been about exclusive pricing. People don't want a performance car to drive, they want something no one else can have. This is why most of those cars get sold 24 months after buying and rarely get driven over 2000 miles by new buyers.
Banks printing money, all over western world. Every ones spend spend. Now fun time starts, empty factory's all over uk full of so called classic
What new cars are $30k?? 😂😂
Especially when they also own the companies at the lower price point 😅
Completely agree. Technology isn’t causing depreciation. Cars being made to look ridiculous by much cheaper cars being faster (through technology) causes depreciation. Changing appetites causes depreciation. Being a conspicuous consumer is soon going to be as fashionable as dating a 16 year old because you’re a rock star.
I’m working in the automotive industry and can confirm what Harry is saying. Many of us working there are car enthusiasts and also just want to have new simpler, fun and especially, more affordable cars. Unfortunately it is not possible anymore.. Regulations like UN-ECE forces just more and more mandatory equipment in the cars, all in the name of safety and environment which drives up the weight and especially the price of the cars.
Then regarding the drop in value for the electric cars. Car manufacturers are also forced to push out electric cars to avoid hefty fines from the EU, therefore creating a big oversupply in the EV market.
So almost everything comes down to the regulations and the lawmakers that instated them.
I'm from the government and I'm here to help - the most dangerous sentence in English
But lighter weight cars are better for the environment. 🤷
This is exactly the attitude as to why most legacy car makers are knackered. The entirety of the tech can be facilitated with a single Ryzen computer and one camera. Your entire ADAS suite in under a kilogram… yet legacy manufacturers are twatting about bodging third party system after system straight out of the Bosch catalogue. Do yourself a favour and learn from Tesla - perhaps then you won’t need to sell electric cars at a loss. If you can’t see that the legacy industry is being left behind then… I’m not surprised. At all. 😊
Isn't it the lobbyists of the car manufacturers that have the most say in what regulations passes, and when. They're the essential force pushing the lawmakers. So I don't know
Completely absurd tbh. These lawmakers have no understanding of the environment and it's complexity anyway and thing they are helping the "climate" with this nonsense. They are paid to make life worse for everyone, how can they sleep at night?
Whats the point of owning a performance car now? Uk roads look like the surface of the moon. Speed cameras everywhere. Traffic jams everywhere. Run of the mill(ish) golf r’s or any half decent ev are in the 4’s to 60mph, so the days of booting it off the line in your lotus esprit and leaving 99.9% of other road users in the dust are long gone. The buzz is gone.
Performance cars now are pointless.
I think the point is many people like driving them. Pretty sure that hasn't changed since cars were invented. It would seem that in spite of every measure implemented to price average Joe out of his fun, he still finds ways to get some so the point is still very much relevant.
I think a lot of the "car enthusiast" crowd will disagree with you for several reasons, but typical drivers think exactly like this. The majority of people on the road don't enjoy driving, don't want to own anything beyond A to B vehicles of various sizes, and just want a cheap way to get around. They don't see the problems with the increased road nannies and restrictions on letting a car loose will cause ten years down the road, let alone what they're doing right now.
Luxury barge is a better way to travel now
I've lost interest in supercars that's for sure. 100's of thousands, 700+ hp, and so expensive no one actually drives them. What's the point? So many people have a 10 year old car with 3k miles on it. Cars are for driving and using.
Why are you here 😂 I was out this morning, plenty of open roads are the right time of day.
Not wanting to buy a new car is becoming a big theme amongst petrolheads
Which will only make the mass of new cars cater to our tastes even less
Only affordable new car I'm interested in is the MX5 now. Ironic as it was a "girl's car" when I was a kid
There is a big reason now because these new car feels just like your average hybrid camery with 1000hp and sharper steering. They have lost the natural sounds, became heavy and lazy and no more emotional connectivity.
@@visionist7 The people that think the MX5 are girls' cars are people that have never driven one or they are too juvenile to understand it's purpose.
@@SupraSav Indeed, you cant get more fun for the price.
@@sismith5427
After 44 years of driving & haemorrhaging money on silly cars I bought a 12 year old Peugeot 107 (same as a Toyota Aygo) last year because I wanted to experience frugal motoring. I was expecting a miserable time but it's turned out to be a revelation.
1) The 1 litre engine is a peach. The sound reminds me of a Kawasaki ER6n I once owned. Very guttural and full of character.
2) It's slow but it feels fast. I have no chance in the traffic light grand prix now and it feels like a huge burden has been lifted from my shoulders. Everyone races away and I'm left to enjoy driving at my pace in my space.
3) My fun is experienced at legal speeds. 30mph to me feels like 50mph.
4) I thought I'd be bullied by other road users but the opposite has happened. Other drivers don't see me as a threat or a challenge and they leave me alone
5) People let me out at junctions
6) It's perfect for city driving and that makes up 95% of my driving these days
7) It's simple & I love it for that. Three spark plugs, one wiper blade & a full exhaust system that costs £120.
8) The only 'extras' I have are a rev counter, radio and electric windows in the front. That's it! The simplicity is refreshing. I feel like I'm driving a car again rather than being taken for a ride in an appliance. It actually feels and sounds like a modern classic.
9) I feel like I'm driving a motorcar again. It feels mechanical and connected. I feel like I'm back in the early 80s driving cars from that period
10) My annual bill has been a service and an MOT. That's it! It came to less than my colleague's monthly lease payment on her big daft SUV. There's no road tax either and I get around 60 mpg.
10) It's tough and capable. I put some Bridgestone Blizzak winter tyres on last autumn & winter and I got places where most couldn't including some 4x4s on their summer tyres. It was great fun pissing off drivers of Range Rovers as I easily kept pace with them.
To summarise, I know this sort of car won't be for everyone but I'm sure some will be as enamoured as I am. It may not be a supercar but it's a super car. It's a keeper!
Couldn’t agree with your comment more. You’ve summarised the reasons why I find our 2015 Hyundai i10 so satisfying!
Another fun thing about compact city cars is that if you want to go faster, you have to drive better. You can’t just gather nerves and push your foot to the floor.
We went to Geneva in a Citroen C1. Basically the same car as the Peugeot. We managed most adequately and the car performed just fine.
I had a Mazda 2 from 2009 up until this summer when I got a new Cupra Formentor. And except for that the Mazda was a bit noisy and had an actual hamster in wheel for an engine it was so good. The steering feel in that 15 year old car was SO MUCH better than in the modern car with electric steering. And don't even get me started on finding a parking spot in the city!
On the other hand I'll be able to take my friends on a ski trip with the new car and that kinda makes up for a lot of its shortcomings.
The 107 is absolutely brilliant! Good choice, I've considered picking one up myself for ages.
So much resonates with why I love my Caterham. Simplify and add lightness, Colin Chapman was a genius and his legacy lives on. It is such a raw and genuine driving experience which puts a smile on my face with every single mile. Just 550kg S3 chassis with the 1.6 litre Ford Sigma engine. Oh! And proper dials none of this electronic nonsense.
What does it cost to get going with a Caterham?
that depends. Not helpful I know but it depends what you wish to go for and if you’re happy to buy second hand. You could buy a good example of an ex Academy car, a reasonable example should be in the region of £17-£21k with a 125hp engine which is a great entry level car. If you want to spend a little more money you could look at an ex Academy car that has been fitted with the Supersport upgrade (140hp). If you have in excess of £70k you could go for a brand new 620 which is a bonkers car. Have a chat with someone like Ian Payne down at PT Sportscars they always have some interesting cars in stock
@15:30 thanks for the mention Mr M! As it happens I also had my Evora for 2 1/2 years and did 25,000 miles - and lost half what you did on your Emira
A mention from Harry, you’ve made it! 😂 Rewatched your i8 review this week as some absolute bargains about.
The best dressed man on youtube has spoken
The Emira is not worth what they are asking for it - it is a £50K car tops - its the same chassis as the old car - it looks pretty - but the V6 is from a Camry. Lotus, Porsche and Ferrari are taking the piss. Watch them drop like a stone.
@@simoningate2056I totally disagree. If you are buying cars on a “ top trumps” basis, then you may have a point. But….. the chassis is still world leading, so who cares if it’s brand new or not, the engine may have humble origins but it provides all the performance you need with a great sound track. The car looks fabulous, and looks every inch a supercar. Harry sold it too soon, he got spooked by all the flippers abandoning the car, ie the guys who measure cars by top trumps metrics and don’t actually care about how a car feels to drive.
That new Ferrari looks exactly like it was designed to be a full size Lego Technic model.
or a grand theft auto car
It's ridiculously ugly that i honestly think the designers are having a laugh
Exactly my thoughts
lol
Totally agree.. I was thinking it was from the new Transformers film
The car industry is complete nonsense now, and new car buyer are sick of being shafted. New car market is boring, over saturated and a rip off
the car market was always been fickle nonsense, the XR badge, water leaks, cut and shut, back street salesman winding back mileage, dodgy MOT's, car stereo theft, rust issues at 6 years old and so on and so on ! ... have a day off !
What's going on is that we are not getting exciting cars as we used to. As for quality, that was always up to the manufacturer's decency.
Too right. We are literally drowning in crap and over complex electric SUVs. The whole Ford car range now, apart from the Focus (which they are killing soon) and the Mustang, are bland overpriced five door SUVs.
@@truetothegame2928 Some cars in the past were crap but at least you had some choice and could actually buy something cheap or something exciting if you wanted to. Now if you want a new car it is simply a question of which bland overpriced identikit SUV you least object to driving.
@@tomasburian6550its called getting old
I so agree. Glowing radiator grilles, crystal in the lights, like a Christmas tree drawn by a kindergartener, full of useless things, 2-3 or more screens, a Lotus weighing 3 tons (a Lotus, get it!?!) only Gordon Murray designs a decent car, but a mortal one can't buy it because of the price. I totally agree! The funny thing is that I'm a modern tech guy, I work in IT, I use the latest technology, but I'm a car enthusiast and no, I don't need 3-ton cars stuffed with unnecessary things. Simplify and add lightness!
My brand new royal enfield cost £3500. It doesn't have traction control. Doesn't have an electronic dash. It's an air cooled single cylinder. And I absolutely love it. It makes me grin from ear to ear and I could bin it and buy a new one every year and not loose as much money as buying the average, new small car.
You are the first in history to get a like from Harry 😂
Yes, motorbikes are still just as good as they've always been. Some would argue the best they've ever been because it's hard to buy a badly built bike these days.
Right with you on that, i wont trust modern stuff, bought a immaculate 96 VFR750 for £950, i will never lose a penny on it, as with the enfield, no silly electrics to worry about, fix it yourself. Screw the new stuff.
Spot on, I am on my RE himalayan 411 almost every day, sold my car as soon as I retired.
You are so right, I have a RE classic 350 and I love it. The Enfield is the main reason my 3.2ltr Pro Drive Alfa Brera hasn’t left the garage this year, I just love the simplistic joy of riding the Enfield.
Harry nails it with every sentence he says. Car manufacturers thought that high technology would attract younger generations, but younger generations are generally not able to earn that kind of money. And so, car manufacturers managed to produce only computer applications on four wheels that have a shelf life as an integral part. That's so sad and stupid at the same time.
Watch makers worried that technology would displace mechanical craftsmanship in the 70s. I think there are more mechanical watches dumped on the market today in a week than total output over a year in the 60s.
Tech is fine for dull, everyday work or quick entertainment. Artisan creations, whether swiss watches or Italian exotica, demand a human element that mass produced tech can't reflect.
No he doesn't. He's just mad because his car collection is back-firing on him as younger drivers don't want those relics. Young people have ALWAYS wanted tech - not cars.
@WardenOfTerra any more nonsense you'd like to post. The problem with young people is they only stay young for a few years.
@@WardenOfTerra Younger people don't want cars full stop compared to the old days, so why pander to that decreasing market share ? This is a program about enjoying driving, which tech does nothing to address... it makes it easier to get from A to B, but does not make it more enjoyable.
Why has Harry never tested the MX5 ? Simples ...
PS I like your yourtube channel WardeN name so much I subscribed to join the lucky other 8 who cannot watch any videos ... schrweet !
@@zakelwe The idea that there are a minimal number of young car enthusiasts left getting REAL old at this point. The problem isn't presence, it's purchasing power. A lot of young adults can't even afford to live on their own in this economy, so buying a toy (which is what a sports car is) isn't a decision one can reasonably expect enormous numbers of them to make. Even a new base-trim Miata costs way more than what the vast majority of young people can afford. Wages haven't been keeping up with inflation, so disposable income can barely cover Netflix.
Warden's take that youth want tech and don't give a toss about cars is pretty spectacularly off-base too, for a number of pretty basic reasons, the unheralded steadiness of human logic across generations chief among them. It's the desire for convenience that drives youth to embrace new technology - the same desire for convenience that compelled previous generations to fuel the popularity of the personal automobile in the first place.
"If in doubt, blame the kids". What a diplomatic and coherent take, guys. I'm sure there's not a single 20-something enthusiast who will read this and take offense...... _oh wait._
Cars are depreciating because the population’s income can’t sustain the new prices.
They immediately lose 20% VAT. Then they drop to a viable market price.
When a family car is £40k + we are back to the 80s when having a new car was a big deal
No. There are so many financing options these days, more poor people are buying expensive cars than ever before..
It may indeed reflect the larger gap between the wealthy and middle/upper middle classes. The latter can’t afford the cars used that the former bought new.
Still have to pay though and maintain them.
@@markrushton1516 monthly payments are relatively low, and maintenance is minimal on newer low mileage cars
Not totally sure about the logic here of blaming high car cost and depreciation on unnecessary tech. These cars, as said, hardly do any miles ever. Most are garage queens. Do those owners really care about how many buttons you need to press if you rarely drive the thing?
I personally think there was a bubble around super cars in the last 15 years driven by low finance costs. Before that, they used to depreciate just like everything else. Car makers could see the demand and figured they were selling their cars too cheaply. Hence they responded by raising prices.
Suspect that will end now. There's now deals to be done on new supercars.
Fabulous film as always Harry, thank you. A small but important point that I think should also be made is about the idea of product support - both necessary and unnecessary tech (even if of dubious need) is required to underpin the operation of all modern vehicles. OTA updates, in-service changes etc all the norm. No manufacturer of any product that has software and security as part of its makeup will support their products forever, be they cars or mobile phones or anything really. Eventually all products reach a stage where the factory will cease support, I think this will directly impact the future classic market as well as simply being a “too hard basket” situation for anyone wanting to purchase or collect something special to keep for the foreseeable future. The aftermarket may cater for some select models, but I fear that the tech has simply made modern vehicles into disposable devices, lease and turn over, rinse and repeat. Where this stands with regard to environmentalism is a whole other story…
This reminds me of a story a little while ago that owners of first-generation Nissan Leafs realised that, when the old 2G network was shut down in Britain, they lost a load of connectivity functionality overnight because the car couldn't communicate with its accompanying phone app anymore. What are they supposed to do about that?
As an A110 and 987 owner, I don’t understand the need for massive power and complicated drive train cars. The 987 Cayman was £11k, five years ago with reasonable mileage and good history. Best money I ever spent.
Someone has taste. Both fab cars
Why both? They both are very similar
@@jakstrike1 Why not, if you've got the money? A110 is heartbreakingly pretty and the 987 makes wonderful 6-cylinder noises. Yeah, they're both lightweight MR sports cars, but hey maybe OP has a "type" hehe.
That A110 nearly caused me to have a weak moment - then I remembered that I live near the Welsh border.... Absolutely a magic chassis... Lucky you
With this logic, what was the need to go beyond the model T?
100% Harry. Totally agree 2014-15 was probably peak motorcar before the electronic assistants and infotainment screens took the lead over traditional looks, handling and performance.
Seven months ago we got a new Puma for my wife to drive but she just couldn't cope with all the tech, hated stop-start, hated the lane assist which if passing parked cars, going over the white line it would sometimes try to push you back into the parked cars and it was forever beep at her so we took it back to the Ford dealer and swapped it for a 2015 Fiesta, you just get in it start it up with the turn of a key, no annoying screen or bleeping sounds to distract you and now I have a very happy wife!
GT4 RS is great and much better than 2014-2015 cars
It was a bit earlier than that. For me, 2008-2012/13. When the 997 died, so did truly analog cars (save for the Evora/Elise).
Thankfully my 2014 C63 Edition 507 sedan falls into that category
@ don’t need any infotainment with the soundtrack from that epic engine!
One of your very best and timely videos. Thank you.
it was very insightful
@@CarsofGlasgow It came off as a bit of a rant to me, not to the normal standard.
I'm not surprised. Most new cars are just terrible. The quality has plummeted, while the price shot up. And road Tax is £600 if you spend 40k, for 5 years !!!!! (on a 1.5 petrol for gods sake). The ride in my new Audi Q3 is just terrible. Don't buy a car built after 2008 is my advice. Stupid Tech, Stupid touch screens, Stupid LED lights that aren't adjustable and blind everyone. Stupid tyre repair kits. Stupid keyless entry. Thin steel. Dangerous Lane assist that steers you INTO parked cars unless you are indicating. I have to turn off 4 things before I set off. Keeps forgetting me as a user. I'll have to pay for features I already have after 3 years unless I pay a subscription. I long for my Mk4 Golf, or a even my Peugeot 306 was better. Frankly I would go back to my Triumph Acclaim if I could. The result.............the Government have driven us backwards to more polluting cars. Goodbye planet.
I live in Spain and pay 4 euro a month road tax.
The new Dacia Duster has a single button (yes a real button) that you press twice to turn off all the driver aids, surely the new high end manufacturers could have done something similar. I actually like the new Duster for its simplicity, I never thought I would say that in my lifetime.
A friend has the Duster with the 900cc 3 cylinder engine. I was so impressed with it. You'd never know.
It´s a very good car.
Faced with the very real possibility that we will soon need a newer family car to replace my 17 year old old Alfa 147, I am seriously considering a Dacia Duster. For basic commuting duty and as a child taxi locally it genuinely seems to be a good choice. Moreover, not a single person I've asked about them has much bad to say of the Duster. Your point here is a major advantage as far as I am concerned.
Sure, it's not going to handle like the 147 but then that car is pretty much incompatible with the state of our current roads anyway.
@@jncg2311 Dacia Duster is like Skoda with the Octavia in 2004, impressive for the price and word of mouth recommendations
Funny enough I kind of like it too.
Can't agree with Harry more on this video, I was over in the UK a few months ago and was staying with a friend. He drove around in his model 3 Tesla and he had all the alerts and alarms switched on. I've never heard a car beep so often, it was like driving around in a pinball machine, how do bureaucrats think anyone can concentrate on driving with so many distractions?
Most drivers don't concentrate on driving.
I followed one in town the other day, my God it was unpredictable, it kept braking for no reason over and over again. I kept a good distance behind it and was glad when it turned off, ironically without indicating!😂
Your a brave man going into one those contraptions.
@@paultune1696 It "breaks" when the driver lets go of the gas pedal, because it starts to automatically engage regenerative breaking. Really, really uncomfortable to drive behind, because you see the rear break lights flashing on and off, without the driver in the Tesla actually knowing
The bureaucrats follow the WEF's plan, they are not interested in road safety but, rather, in controlling the masses. But hey, keep voting for the same old system parties.
iPad Pro - $1200. iPad Pro with four wheels - $2,000,000. The feel of driving a base 993 Carrera - priceless.
Subscribed
At one point i was driving a brand new then, 2021 911 GTS, and hours after i drove a 07 Cayman base model with 250hp ish NA engine and manual transmission, i loved it ! 😁
This, yes! Exactly why I bought a base 993 and just don’t want anything else. Ever.
Currently waiting on delivery of a 2008 Base Carrera manual.
It has Bluetooth radio!
That iPad Pro with four wheels for $2,000,000 is not going depreciate much.
I think it’s a simple answer. New cars are VERY dull. How many in the last 5 years have come out and been loved? And I mean loved like the 458, 981, 991, Huracan Perf, Chiron etc. who cares about the 296, SF90 etc
We have a Volvo V70 estate it’s been in our family from new 25 years. It has never broken down. I can still buy parts for it. There is a Haynes manual, there is a wiring diagram, everything is traceable and can be fixed. The instruments are analogue and physical. The same won’t be true for most modern cars in 25 years time, it will be impossible to get replacement displays, sensors, batteries, control systems etc. it’s actually difficult now. We’re just replacing a 10 year old PHEV with a new one. The old one had an MOT advisory on a rear traction motor HV cable. Replacing just this cable takes 2 days and costs £1300 it was the last part available in the UK. We asked the main dealer to also do a battery health diagnostic. They politely declined as the diagnostic takes 2 days and has to be run outdoors, as the building uninsurable if the test is run in workshop overnight. The test can only be run outdoors at 10C ambient and above - so he said come back in April! Nuts…
Sold my Range Rover Vogue and I bought an XC70. It's been legendary so far and is superb for long trips.
I have an old Volvo I kept around to give my son. Like a lot of his generation, he has no desire to drive a car. So I drive it mostly to keep miles off my other cars. I can’t kill that Volvo for anything. It just keeps going and has a better ride quality than either of my Mercedes. 😂
I work in automotive R&D. When I had the 2024 safety regs explained to me I was in disbelief, then over the last couple of years every one of my friends that I mentioned them to thought I was making it all up!
I'm convinced that they'll go down in history as a case study on the dangers of unchallenged committees and legislators. They're bringing a globe-spanning industry to its knees, with millions of jobs at stake.
They are pushing tech instead of good policy just like they did with EVs for everyone. They should have stuck to defining the outcome and letting clever engineers and scientists come up with cost effective and clever solutions. When the dust settles we will all find out that big tech and tier 1s were lobbying and “incentivising” policy makers to keep adding tech.
maybe thats the point of it all ? lets face it, the regulations arent written by people who love cars and driving. they are written by people who hates cars and loves public transport.
The reality is more people are getting killed by cars. The solution is stricter training and licencing, but that would be unpopular with voters, so we are now mandating tanks.
I sense you're right. The car manufacturing industry is at the beginning of its end. We'll all be in Chinese self driving cars in the not too distant future
@@wfifa199Please don't tell Elon Musk that, he won't be at all happy - he'll be booking himself on the first flight to Mars.
Insurance is the next biggest scam
Cost of fixing crash damaged cars is insane, plus anyone can steal it
That's still a manufacturer problem driven by keyless locks and ignitions no one asked for but make theft trivial. Governments need to step in and mandate proper theft protection, because manufacturers are making billions off insurance repurchases.
100% Agree. They are one of the most corrupt of businesses
@@dappergent9422Exactly how are the insurance companies corrupt? I'd like to know the details. Also, how did you come by this information?
It’s entirely due to lawyers and stupid jurors giving insane awards for total BS injury claims.
I think you have it a bit wrong.
I have two engineer friends at BMW in Germany.
They both stated to me that car manufacturers do not see cars as capital goods but rather as a luxury consumable, like a cell phone. Car manufacturers prefer you lease a car and replace it every 5 years. As soo
As soon as the warrantee and maintenance plan period is over, the cars become worthless as car manufacturers deliberately make parts extremely expensive to maintain.
All about profits. I remember that some people at Mercedes has said in the past that they made the cars too reliable so they reduced the quality to make more money.
The other downside with all the extra tech... is privacy. Imagine how much data its collecting on you and selling on now.
Why on earth do you need an account, subscription or to 'agree to terms' in any car?!
This. So much this.
Cars are becoming a service. You don't really own it, you're just a user and data harvest
Pretty much sums up how I feel as well. A big part of a car’s appeal is the sense of freedom. Remember that feeling after first passing your test when it was just you and the car, and you didn’t have somebody in the passenger seat telling you what to do for the first time. To me, the tech on a modern car is the equivalent of having that instructor sitting there, telling you what you can and cannot do. It removes a big part of the sense of freedom and therefore the appeal.
I have a 10 grand TVR in the garage which gives me far more pleasure than pretty much anything I could buy today would do. It’s light, analogue, simple, and my control inputs are connected by mechanical linkages with no electronic intervention . Granted, it wouldn’t see which way a modern equivalent went, but It’s more than fast enough in reality. And when I’m driving, it’s just me and the car, and it will let me do whatever I want with it. And because there isn’t an electronic safety net, it makes me a better driver.
The fact that new performance cars major pretty much on outright performance and grip in a world where we have speed cameras everywhere, broken road surfaces and an increasingly intolerant approach to speeding is ironic be beyond belief.
Okay, I’m cracking on a bit now being at the tail end of my 40s, but i genuinely don’t believe it’s just rose tints talking. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with missing light, simple cars that you connect with, and which don’t put every input you make through some kind of infernally beeping and bonging electronic committee.
And no performance car should weigh over two tonnes.
All of this should be no surprise to you Harry. I worked in the motor trade for over thirty years. You can’t blame the increase in tech, and legislation for all the issues. Look at how many manufacturers were active in the uk market place twenty five years ago. Look how many there are now. There’s also the questionable increase in the cost of new cars to the consumer. After Covid, with chip shortages etc etc, the car makers had a field day. Now they’re reaping what they sowed. It’s a perfect storm of more competition, higher interest rates, the cost of living, and the political uncertainty in the world. The media are beside themselves to ridicule the depreciation of EV,s, but take a look at the other big losers in value. Super cars won’t be immune to this either. It won’t be long before cars seen as a safe place for your money, or an investment, suffer the same fate. This is not just a UK problem. It global. The big losers will be the more expensive cars, and the big manufacturers. There’s a dramatic change coming of the order of the global players. So called collectors and investors in cars, are going to feel the pinch, like any other sector of the market. The UK is not the place to enjoy a car, like it used to be. Other people have commented on the issues we have here. Adding to the perfect storm even further. I mean, who can excercise and enjoy a good performance car here anymore? The roads, speed cameras and restrictions,the extortionate cost of insurance, all make it not worthwhile. People used to aspire to a better or more expensive car. Not anymore. They usually choose to drive what their budget allows, after consulting the insurance quotes, service cost, and fuel prices. Unfortunately, this situation won’t resolve overnight. The next few years will be very interesting. Thanks for your quality content, as always, but I felt I would offer my opinion to the debate.
All by design.
Explain
The massive depreciation on EVs is because they are so cheap to lease on salary sacrifice.
Absolutely spot on - The current situation is fundamentally a result of economics.. Supply and demand etc rather than any esoteric issue of technology, styling, EV's, culture and so on.
Shutting down the global economy for covid... governments distributing vast sums of financial assistance which ended up creating massive moral hazard in the form of misdirected "investment" (spending), which in turn stimulated an enormous bubble in asset prices across multiple sectors (automotive included).
We are now beginning to feel the consequences as the inevitable inflation has caused interest rates to shoot up (recent cuts are just a temporary pull back).
This is likely to create some amazing opportunities for people to pick up some relative bargains in the used car market, but when the majority are struggling to pay rent on a modest flat, classic car ownership is way down the list of priorities!
Have to disagree. There has never been a time where I as a regular Joe could afford to enjoy a sub 4s car going 150mph on Autobahn, which costs me 30€/month to insure. These were privileges to the high society, not any more.
This video should go down in history in how accurately Harry described the current situation.
I bought new for years, BMWs, finance packages etc, just got fed up with both depreciation and the way new cars went with weight and tech. Now I’m quite content with my Mk3 Mondeo Ghia X and my E92 M3. Proper cars. Great video Harry.
@@MrGm182 Ghia X is a lovely car. My son has a 2.2 ST diesel which he really looks after. Its mapped and easily quick enough on 🇬🇧 roads along with 60mpg. I had a Ghia X and now Jag X-type 2.2 Sovereign which is really excellent.
And that’s another lovely car. I had the ST220 for a while years ago, but didn’t gel with, wasn’t as comfy, lovely sound from the V6, but firm, and the recaros weren’t as well fitting for longer drives than the standard seats, even the spec in LX was brilliant. I do love the MK3 mondeo.
E92 M3 is a great car but its £735 a year to tax, Add on a few years of RPI increases in road tax and it becomes a £1k a year to tax.
@@andreworam2849 ved will never stop me from owning a great car.
You'll Own Nothing And Be Happy
Disband the eu and wef
@@johnnyboy1586and to think we left the EU as it was becoming increasingly bureaucratic.
@@NA-dg3jx You think we have left the EU? ... people who voted out didn't what they voted for, by a long shot!! ... try keeping up!!
No new cars for me and i, am actually happy about it. ffs!
2030 agenda
You are so absolutely Right!
I am 47 years old and a petrol head all my life. My current cars and bikes are all aging and I do Not feel desire to buy newer. I live in Germany - 5 Minutes from an unrestricked Autobahn, still always a nice feeling of Freedom 😁 - and here in Germany we do love our Automobiles. But to buy new or new-ish 🤔…hmm. Not if you have a love for the mechanical side of cars in my opinion.
I actually sold all my newer stuff. I love my current older cars & bikes. From my 530d daily to my Classic Mini 1000, from my Ferrari 360 to my original Rickman CR750 bike (anyone out there still knows those…I wonder), and all else lurking in my garage…
All old and all here to stay !
I do my best to hand down some of my Passion to my son, but for the rest…I think I’ll leave the modern tech stuff to the next Generation.
Sad really…
Let me know if you're selling the F360 😂😂😂
You are so lucky having unrestricted road ,,,here in Australia it is all 110 kph maximum...just the same as it was 60 years ago , despite all the improvements in car and motorway design that have taken place since then.
Yes I know Rickman frame motorcycles!
time to get a Toyota
Hi Harry. I have enjoyed your channel for years, wondering when you would finally reach the point of this video. So glad you have done so. I own an original MX-5 Miata that I bought new in October 1989. It is fully loaded and cost almost 18k when new. It has brought me more joy than any Ferrari or Lamborghini ever brought anyone, and I strongly encourage you to find and drive an NA Miata. It will answer most of your questions and fill your days with fun. It’s not too late, my friend. All good wishes from Iggy in Oregon USA!
I bought a 2024 2 litre Mazda MX-5. One button turns off the stupid speed warning sound and I’m off. A blast to drive. Simple and with nothing mediating the connection between the driver and the road. A keeper.
Has Harry ever done a video with a Mazda on his channel? Don’t think I’ve seen any.
"I'm an enthusiast...I'm a very simple creature...I love the sound and speed" - best way to explain it. I'm going to use this. Spot on Harry.
The volume of Supercars coming out, is way to high. I stop careing about every new Lambo variation years ago. Same with McLarens. They all look almost the same, there is nothing special about them anymore. A Ferrari F40 was an icon right away. Porsche Carrera GT. Lamborghini Diablo. Porsche Turbo in the 80s. They all felt special..
That is a valid point! New supercars are released each year and I think we become numb to it all.
Absolutely! A new supercar was an event, look how long we had the Countach until we got the replacement in the Diablo. Give us something to be excited about not more of the same thing.
Not to mention all the variants and special "tiffany" "louis vitton" editions. Pagani are probably the only ones doing it right.
ever so true,, valid point!
Yep, I agree about the F40. I got up close to one just after it came out in a car show room in Milan, and I wandered in, the door was open because a fellow was sweeping the steps, I got some funny looks, and as it turned out you had to be buzzed in. A was said about it, road, seat, arse, just like my Westfield. My my four car garage. McLaren F1, F40, a Caterham R620 and a VW van for daily driver.
You make some very valid points.
Begs the question, what happens when the manufacturer ceases to support your car's operating system?
As Microsoft are want to do with their previous versions.
I recently bought a new car (mazda 3 GT ) didnt like all the electronic nanny tech , info screen up high on the dash distracting you from the road , warnings going off if you driving over the limit etc , sold it and bought a used low mileage Subaru BRZ, love it , just get in and drive , don't miss the tech at all.
With you on that one mate.
We have GT86 as the second daily, its so refreshing to get behind the wheel, appart from the fun driving experience the lack of everything is so nice. No beeping, no modes, endless warnings etc
They look so good too.
GT86/BRZ are an amazing bargain driver's car. I've had a GT86 for 7 years and it's lost about £1,000 a year. I like it so much I've kept it despite buying an Emira 14 months ago. The Emira has lost about £25k in just over a year, BUT, unlike Harry's, mine is a keeper so that initial depreciation doesn't really matter so much when you keep cars for 10+ years.
I leased a 2014 E-class once and it had vibration in the steering wheel and alarms when you drove over road lines and it was voluntary. At least other lane assist things were optional.
Harry,
Nothing sweeter than putting-on an oratory masterclass without effort. That’s what makes the channel different than many.
Oratory masterclass? It's a bloke talking about cars
@ I like ham
We’re still in our 2017 Superb Estate family wagon (bought new), because the replacement is £40k+ vs. £24k for the ‘17. And will the ‘24 be worth any more than our old soldier in 7 years??? Probably not. Money staying in my pocket.
Dealer just said ‘well, everything is more expensive these days…’ yeah, but I don’t have to buy it, do I? 😂
Keep it. Whether you've got diesel or petrol you should be good for 150,000+ miles if you look after it. The Mk3 is peak VW I think
@ 1.4T petrol. We’ll get another year’s warranty on it in June (£180 for the top one from Skoda 👌) and make our mind up in summer ‘26. They ran that model for so long, no point in changing sooner and then the new one is nearly 2x the price. Did about £1500 on warranty this summer, albeit at main dealer prices / genuine parts.
I daily a mk7 Golf R, and the Skoda puts it to shame in many ways.
I'm four years into my Mercedes estate. No intention of selling 😊
@@rossmingay26 the way things are right now, I’d probably get a lightly used Merc Estate as the replacement family wagon… let someone else get hurt over the first 2 years and then run it to 100k.
@@simonsaunders1730 mines just under 80k, and with the mileage I do, it has a good number of years ahead (hopefully)
6:19 The move to electric steering principally came about as a cost cutting/efficiency exercise, lane assist is just a peripheral benefit or curse. No pipe work or power steering pump means very much easier/faster production line assembly and reduced parts cost. No engine driven pump means better fuel economy / emmissions. The downside is reduced longevity, you won't see used cars with working electric power steering in 30 years time, the old pump and pipes syastem is pretty bomb proof.
Though the EU pitches it as a 'cybersecurity' issue, it might be they don't want owners hacking their own cars to delete the unwanted nanny systems.
When the EU pitches something as 'X', you immediately know that it's _not_ 'X'. You still don't know what it _actually_ is, but based on the simple fact that they try to tell you it's 'X' you can absolutely rule out the possibility that it may in fact be 'X'.
@patstoob So here's the thing, on my car I was looking for a setting & couldn't find it. I checked on UA-cam videos & looked through the manual to ensure it wasn't me being dumb.
I contacted Mercedes to ask, & after a bit of investigation, they reckoned the previous owner had many of these systems coded out. They asked me to bring the car in & quoted £2500 to flash the ECU back to factory spec. Fuck that! It's staying as it is!
@JustAnthonyX the black helicopters will be circling your location soon!!
On a serious note, is there anyway to forsee this before buying a secondhand car? Its something i would look out for.
@@JustAnthonyX Why charge more than, at most, the labor cost to return to spec the car you designed and built and now continues to speak for your brand?
@@NOXStellansNo idea mate. But there's no way I'm paying £2500 for something I've lived without most of my life. Mercedes weren't surprised either.
It seems a lot of people must be coding these things out, hence the EU insisting on enhanced cyber-security measures.
There's an element of things reverting back to normal here.
Supercars used always depreciate badly, it's only recently that they've held their value fairly well.
Similar sanity returning to the luxury watch market as well.
Exactly. This is how it's supposed to go. The market has been super weird!
I have an 05 Element... Im always in my Element (came for the comment, stayed for the sarcasm)
The bubble burst
Hope so.
Exploded!
Insurance is also the biggest scam. Rip your butt hole when u need help
We need a reset......back to normal
Insurance, the price of cars and the cost of living means most people now have to seriously consider a new car purchase.
Anything with a battery - full EV or, to a lesser extent, hybrid - is going to depreciate heavily, because batteries (traction batteries, not 12v ones) last 8-10 years typically and cost a kidney to replace. Replacement often requires massive strip-down and almost complete re-build of the vehicle in high performance cars.
I have to agree with Harry that cars are becoming more portly and less attractive or elegant. Like people generally, really...
bought a 31 year old midnight purple yamaha yzf750r 1993 for 1800 euros. It is the best and by far the most freeing and liberating and joyful experience money could ever buy. So I completely agree on your view about bikes Harry.
1:59 “… complicate and add weight” - deliberate or sub-conscious inversion of Mr. Chapman’s principles?
Deliberate. Thanks for noticing.
The scriptwriting for these videos always goes crazy lol
@@harrysgarage😁 I thought it probably was. And prompted by that, I feel a re-watch of the Elan 30-year review coming on…
Uh, do we really want to talk about the quality of Colin Chapman's road cars?
@@truantray Fair point, but it's worth noting that even a little old EK or EF Honda Civic used to be a well-integrated and reasonably-sized package. Look back only about 15 years and every carmaker had _something_ in their range that, featureless or well-appointed, pulled off what it needed to elegantly and without clutter. Many of them were legendarily reliable (like the aforementioned Civics).
You hit the nail on the head. I HATE all of the invasive tech on new cars, as well as the associated bloat and cost. The tech greatly detracts from the enjoyment, and adds very little to performance, if anything. I don't need the internet, etc., and don't need the car to maintain distances, tell me when to brake (or brake for me), when to change lanes (or grab the steering wheel), etc. Just give me a new analog car with antilock brakes, minimal traction/stability control, etc. with the ability to turn off whatever I want and keep it permanently turned off (unless I intentionally turn it back on again). That's what I want. I'm a car fanatic and have plenty of discretionary income, and it seems so simple, yet nobody seems to care.
Porsche seems to care. Shame they have to stop building the 718 though, it's a gem.
I agree. Nevermind performance cars. Even new flippin' Lexus SUVs have tech overkill. I can't remember hating new cars this much.
> Worried about the amount of tech because it drives depreciation
> Sells the emira because it's depreciating even though it has no tech
Several factors all at once IMO. I think most of this is correct, the gobs of tech will permanently crush value on the heavy, complicated, modern models. But concurrently, in the short term, the market has softened and will probably bounce back for the low tech cars like the emira, just like it did for the elise. Same reason why the modern 911 has held on to its long term value so well but has softened a bit in the last year.
It's the expected result of greed. Today's economy expects you to buy a new car every 5-6 years and we're treating cars like they're expendable and should be thrown away after 10 years. More and more people can't afford any cars, let alone some fun cars or expensive cars.
That being said, cars as an investment...well...it's not like a lot of us can afford several cars. Maybe some are lucky to have 1 project car, potential investment....but only really rich folks can afford to be collectors who have many many cars, so naturally, their market is also falling apart.
Greed is ruining everything.
Okay let's address something. Despite everybody's personal believes, cars are getting CHEAPER. Except some brands like Ferrari, cars are getting CHEAPER. A 5 series bmw is now CHEAPER than it was in the 2000s, even more if you account for extra features/performance and safety. You may or may not like new cars. But cars are NOW CHEAPER. The automobile manufacturing industry is WAY LESS profitable than many other bussiness, stellantis managed to score 11% margins ar the expense of future developments, Volkswagen struggles with 4%. Stop blaming GREED because manufacturers are not greedy, they just adapt to our money DEPRECIATION. Its governments and central banks draining our savings via inflation to fund their insane expenses. Literally do the math for any car, from a seat leon to a bentenly continental, they are all now comparatively cheaper when adjusted for inflation. If we keep blaming manufacturers we let the politicians win, because nobody points at them. Please please please, learn to read the situations correctly. The reason cars depreciate is because nominally the prices have gotten so big relative to salaries that we simply don't realise that is actually the current market cost for some of them and 15 year old cars are still very very good products if well kept.
@@comeberza This is categorically untrue. Cars today are more expensive than ever before. Inflation is higher than ever and new cars are more expensive than ever. Cheapest new car now costs avg 10x monthly salary, whereas before it was cheaper.
People don't buy cars. They lease them. And that is part of the problem in terms of prices going up. People who go out and buy a car in one hit, who care about that headline cost, aren't the priority anymore.
Greed is it. Product turnover is driven by consumer demand. Manufacturers are feeding the beast.
@@comeberza yes inflation makes everything look expensive. But weirdly inflation doesn't affect worker's income, they remain roughly the same. Huh.
Greed it is.
I have a TVR Griffith and it's wonderful for all the reasons you stated for being totally analogue, rare and most of all financially accessible from buying to maintaining ! Sounds fantastic and I adore it
Well played, Sir!!
Not troubled by the 5 gallons to the mile aspect?
@@Costa_del_Artlepool I've never really checked MPG however I suspect it's around 20 or so. It doesn't get driven more than a couple of thousand miles per year so isn't an issue. It's weird you get to love the smell of these classic cars. The TVR smell is a small blend of hot fibreglass, glue, oil, petrol and huge dose of nostalgia!
Keep it . Maintain it well. Enjoy it and don’t think about it as an investment. 👍👍
I have a TVR Chimaera. Great fun for enthusiastic country driving. Hopefully not depreciating much. Cheap to insure as a classic.
Couldn't agree more. And I've just ordered a Moto Guzzi V100 Mandello and I took the _lower_ spec one that does NOT have the electronic Ohlins suspension or the quick shifter or the tyre pressure monitor or the new radar. I just want a mechanical machine.
I sold my 2006 astra 1.8 sri estate earlier this year, having bought it when it was six months old. Apart from consumables the only things that needed replacing were the tailgate latch, starter relay and coil springs, plenty of potholes in Devon. I consider that, 17 years of cheap motoring.
25:37 Interesting. I was looking at a new Supra to replace my ageing 987 5 sp Cayman of 2008 vintage. The price of the new Supra is around the same $ as my Cayman when it was new say AUD $110K. MY 2008 Cayman is currently worth about $60k. A 4 year old Supra? About the same, $60k. So depreciation on the Supra is sudden and massive. Im keeping my Cayman, thankyou. I will never buy a car with a battery and electric engine. Period. The European car industry is destroying itself with EV and PHEV. No true enthusiast wants electric cars. And their massive depreciation is proof.
We have moved into an era where cars are 'mechanically' totaled even though they look perfect and the mechanical components are still viable but the cost to diagnose and repair electronic faults exceeds the value of the car. Good luck fixing a faulty module on a limited production supercar in 10-20 years.
The manufacturer’s don’t want us to repair they want us to replace our cars hence few electronic replacement parts made, its a scam and a scandal.
Good luck now. A friend of mine in Florida had Lamborghini buy back his new car. They had it 6 months and still could not fix it. He drove it for a month before it broke.
Yet a Miura will still be able to be driven in a hundred years if there is fuel available.
@@Brookspirit By then people might be able to get them to idle.
Yes this is true. I have a customer with an Audi RSQ8 that had a minor front end collision...2 headlights and the grille cost $22000 for just those parts before labor
Car price raising means currency’s purchase power is lower, and it was cause by money printing. Not high tech, not computer, not AI. Cars will eventually come back to its original purpose after economic crushes.
Best analogy to high tech cars is phones, no one is willing to pay top dollar for the I-phone 6. Nothing ages faster than tech.
Digital obsolescence seriously affects resale as the technological advances come so quickly and totally supersede the previous design. Older digital designs are not supported, and are often not interchangeable with new ones.
@@primafacie6442 Watching Matt Armstrong dealing with software programming on cars only a couple of years old shows you what's coming down the line. If one module doesn't talk to other things it's a cascading effect and nothing works.
I was talking to a friend recently about how I could remember used but not old Ferraris being within reach for people with a relatively well paid job. That hasn't been the case for ages.... until now. All the assistance tech would be ok if it worked totally reliably. Great video as always
The Alpine A110 is another positive example: In Switzerland you cannot find an A110 below 50k CHF. I bought mine for something like 57k four years ago. Great cars, everyone who likes a no nonsense lightweight car: Get one before they go out of production soon. You will be mad at yourself forever if you don't
There is a reason why the Mazda Miata is so popular....and yet no one has even tried to make a comparable car.
@@truantrayafter three decades of refinement by Mazda engineers it would be very hard to make a real viable competitor
@@truantray .....the GR86?
@@truantray GR86. Sold out immediately after Toyota announced they'll bring about 900 units to UK.
Agreed, and probably the crucial reason why I decided to buy a second hand Alpine A110S earlier this year. I think it’s the best compromise between driving feel, reliability, running costs and residual value. It doesn’t consume a lot of fuel, is cheap to maintain, rather cheap to insure. The only thing I’m dearly missing is a manual stick, and that makes me tempted to switch to an Exige. But running costs on an Exige would be higher.
I am very confident I could sell my A110S for the same price or for more than I bought it for, and that is truer for certain versions of the car in particular: the A110S with the aero package has great resale value while the A110GT depreciated slightly more.
Quite right Harry! This tech drives me nuts! Life’s complicated anyway, why create more!
I just bought my wife a new Discovery. We picked it up on Thursday. It has no switches - everything is done via that accursed damn screen. Can't even turn the flipping air con up or down without using the screen. Every time you go fractionally over the speed limit its making bonging sounds and don't get me started on the bloody lane assist. She seems to be reasonably immune to these annoyances but I don't think I could stand it. 'They' intend to chase almost everyone off the roads and I wonder if this is part of the plan. I don't know, but I do know that everything horrible politicians want to implement is done under the pretence of it being for our good.
Oh my god I feel so sorry for you
@@bovedli
You should do a little research as to what is going on in the world with regards to the influence that the likes of the World Economic Forum has on our MPs and Ministers that regularly attend its globalist conferences in Davos Switzerland every year.
They don’t want people to travel around and are using a certain climate narrative to achieve their goal.
The Mayor of London is chairman of the global C40 cities agenda.
Look up 15 minute cities , it will horrify you.
@@bovedli in fairness, I didn’t buy it by mistake. I couldn’t live with it but she already loves it and it’ll be fine for her. I guess it comes down to what you want from a vehicle and my wants are completely different to hers!
Feel your pain. Have the same with my MY24 Defender. Honestly, had I known it was like that I would not have bought it. Last new car I will ever have
Why did you buy it then?
I really do think that this is your best video ever! Would'nt change a single word of what you said. Thank you for being so open, so unconventional and for inviting us all to your garage. This video will be a classic in 50 years from now. Greetings from Lisbon.
I recently went to the Paris autoshow. Everything was dominated by EVs, big screens and technology overload. The young chaps running the VW stand couldn't understand why I didn't like the lack of physical controls in their cars for even the most basic things (e.g. climate control.) Kids don't seem to care, but are they customers? They can't afford the cars, that's for sure (and a lot of them know it, a roof over their head is already a challenge.) For me, it was amusing to watch so many of them fooling around with the car screens (or their phones.) Their interest in cars seems very different to mine. IMHO, the transition to driverless cars/taxis might be easier in the future than we currently imagine, but it'll be a very different world after that. I think we're a dying breed. A lot of the big brands which we so admire may very well be gone before we know it.
Agreed. Nobody will own, or indeed drive, cars in the future. Just driverless taxis that take you where you want to go.
@@wfifa199and then a solar mass ejection as per what took out the telegraph around 1880 will fry all the delicate complicated electrics everwhere!
"kids dont seem to care but are they customers"
they will be lol
this entire comment section is just a bunch of boomers crying about tech and touch screens, some things never change
@@dddd-uk4vn Sorry to have triggered you my friend. The young in the market for 70k family haulers? "They will be" - reality says different. Factories are closing and jobs are being lost by the thousands because they can't move these things. I have no problem with technology per se (worked for almost 3 decades in tech), this is about designing cars fit for purpose, not for children that can't keep noses out of their phone screens for more than 30 seconds - even at a car show! It's long been noted that interest in cars by the younger generations (millennials, etc) has been waning and you simply have different priorities...
I think you hit the nail on the head here, imagine the young people can even put up no go zones for petrol cars making them unusable in the end. There will come a time where driving your own car is ancient tech
You've got the nail slap bang on the head (as usual). Most who are in the market for performance vehicles want to DRIVE them, not be nannied by them. I've got a couple of what would now be classed as "Classic" bikes, a naked '98 Suzuki 1200 Bandit and an '82 RD350LC, complety different bikes in looks, riding styles and performance, but they're "analogue" and all the better for it. The last modern bike I had needed a laptop to change anything as regards engine performance and so many "modes" I just couldn't be bothered with them. Nice bike, but soulless which is where we are with the current crop of supercars!
I prefer to not drive a washing machine on wheels that spies on me.
Yet you move around with a portable computer that does the same thing. 🤦♂️
@@bmstylee I don't have a choice about the phone, but I do have a choice what I drive.
@@chocoslice92 Faraday cage
😂😂😂😂tesla
@@chocoslice92just get a dumb phone like a Nokia 3310, calls and texts only it’s grate.
Mandatory lane assist, start stop and traction control are ruining cars, I need to turn that crap off at the start of each journey, going back to older cars now.
Excellent talking points. The escapism and passion we used to have with cars has left the car market. The current market does not reflect what customers actually want.
Lousy driver should stay in his lane.
Looking backwards then I think peak car was in the era of E46 M3CSL/E39 M5 - sadly all over by 2004. For the next 10 years we had increases in complexity due to safety and emissions regulation and this pushed up costs to buy repair and insure. For the last 10 years the industry has spectacularly lost its way on the back of cheap finance (now gone). Great commentary Harry - will get a lot of views!
yes, peak car is dacia for me.
Beyond a airbag or two, I’m unsure what got more complex in a V8 M3 / V10 M5 from a safety / emissions perspective.
@@euroconnex2712S65/S85 ? Wonderful engines but it look like a nightmare to own from an external perspective
@@floriandugoli5923ah! I can understand the perception, in reality, the S54 have their issues - VANOS is problematic and they also require rod bearing service, although to a lesser frequency.
Still running around in '51 3.0s e39. I came to this conclusion sometime ago about the general direction of motoring. It has all the tech I need except an integral sat-nav system, it's ulez compliant, so I'm keeping it going.
The thing that making me upset is in France we have so many speed bumps (huge ones sometimes) and even traffic lights that turn red when you arrive (even if there is nobody the other way) just to stop you for a few secs and then goes green again and all those things to make you slow down and then accelerate again. When actually this is exactly what make cars consume more fuel. And yeah the weight of cars is crazy. My swift sport burn only 5L/100km, and I am often car sharing. I am pretty sure that my tiny sport car overall has a smaller environmental impact than a big hybrid/EV car. I mean they should encourage more car sharing and light cars
Harry is the coolest guy on automotive UA-cam.
In the future there will be zero capability to restore any new vehicle. Keep your Tech
Man... I am 36 years old white collar and I work at home with one laptop almost 10 hours everyday for trying understand lots of financial data... Make presentations, meetings... No matter how hard I work it's never enough. My job is going to be more complicated everyday. When i am trying to explain my job to my father he does not understand why it must be this much complex. Because in his head you make something to sell and sell it one price.... In summary modern life has to be complex in every way... They say technology makes our life more easy and i say big NO !
1988 baby here. I work in tech, I embraced it. Now I want to run away from it
@@Rambolambo88 i understand you my friend i am in technology industry also in business/marketing side. I just want quit and living with one sheep on the top of mountain :)
At 36 you have a chance to change. Start your own business, it's one of the few ways to escape.
I work in tech too. AI is going to crush us soon, so if you hate it, now's your chance to change and get ahead of the pack.
Move into a business or service that requires more people skill and interpersonal work. I’ve been lucky to make a career, self-employed, in bookkeeping, helping small business owners make sense of technology, compliance, and the health of their businesses. That’s just one of many examples of specialty areas where personal relationships and trust allow you to expand into your capabilities.
I bought a Peugeot 205 and I’m finishing repairing it to its glory! It’s going to be so much fun 😊 on the road! No fading plastic headlights (hard glass) solid bodywork; seat belts with no pre tensioners, no air bags, no electric windows, no AC, no ABS, No power steering 😅, no electric fuel pump, no Cat, no alarm, and a after market cd/radio (FM) :💯 fun
Radio-cassette player surely?
Clarion if I remember correctly @@HaggisPower
Drove my fathers 205 XS recently - it was brilliant, easily one of the best drives this year.
@@tanelrebane my mum had an xs. Silver. Lovely looking car.
Exactly yes 🏆👍 I bought a new 1.9 GTI in 1989 from minories of Newcastle & it was one of the best drivers car I ever had & our family have had Imprezas, DB7s jaguars porches etc etc . Older cars are no fuss good drives with buttons & sliders . Enjoy 👍
I agree with everything you've said, Harry, except with one caveat: If my son or daughter announced they were getting their bike licence I would be truly concerned for their safety. There's so many people on our roads who simply have no idea what they're doing behind the wheel. This tech (although I don't like it) is who it's aimed at.
Yeah, to allow people who can't drive to use the roads. That makes the roads safer, right?
@@stevemawer848 - Sometimes I wonder why they even bother giving people a driving test. You got a beating heart? Great, here's your license, enjoy!
Came off my bike aged 19..bit scratched up..could have been worse. Decided that cars were safer. My closest friend carried on and worked his way up to Ninjas and Fireblades. He died in a crash in 2008, on his Fireblade.
@@mikea5205 Tests have never been more difficult objectively speaking both from a criteria standpoint and the roads themselves (too many people), watch a driving instructor channel and see non-learners reattempt a test, the majority fail because they can't be bothered checking blind spots or indicating.
The real issue is three things, this country has mass migration, it's the only reason the population grows at all, all of the foreign license holders can drive on their license for a year before needing to pass a UK driving test. Have you seen driving standards in India? Pakistan? Bangladesh? secondly the roads are overcrowded, population density it the highest in Europe on crap roads with poor markings, lastly the average population age is older and older each year, got old folk all over the road.
The problem with 'idiot proof' tech, is that God will just invent a better idiot
The “next” generation of personal transportation needs to arrive. Whatever that is. I’ve owned it all. Nothing, NOTHING excites me anymore. It’s all turned to either stoic art…or garbage.
Harry gets it spot on again. I watched his review of the latest Aston. Ridiculous, 5 minutes of switching crap off on your drive before you can pull away. No, sorry, I just won't do it. And I don't have to. I love my two relatively high end 20 year old cars (Audi and Merc) . I do few miles (
Bang on! I recently traded in my Audi A6 sloon, 3L V6 quattro automatic, 18 years old, for a 12 year old A6 Avant, 3L V6 quattro automatic. The difference in performance is notable, the newer one is faster and has some gizmos the old one didnt, like satnav and parking aids, but otherwise it's just a great car to drive. Get in, start up...and go! Nobody tells me what to do, just a very discreet "bong" and message to suggest that it's time to re-fuel.
At the price I paid to change, some folks spend on a fab holiday for the family, but I look out the window at my Avant and just can't wait to drive it again. "THEY" do not want you to have such feelings...
I think all the 'safety' tech in cars is actually making driving more dangerous. People are less aware of what the car is doing and rely on lane assistance, radar, sign monitoring and they let the car do it and stop thinking about it themselves. People are inherently lazy and as soon as you give them an aid they lean on it. I think if we look at the standard of driving in the past fire years it proves the point perfectly
That's a fair point. I always felt the focus on occupant safety, crash protection, etc. meant cars became more dangerous: you couldn't see out of the damn things, blind spots everywhere. And people became too insulated.
Make everyone learn to drive in an original Mini, let them feel vulnerable!
Just spent a weekend in a new q8 with the alerts & screen 'down low', most dangerous experience in recent memory constantly looking down to see what is pinging and making a noise !
Don't forget that same as with automation in aircraft, it will come at as not a good idea with time as thought because sooner or later some thing will happen that kills that the engineers couldn't think of out of various reasons.
Faffing about with the driver ‘aids’ is more dangerous than using a phone. i loathe it. Going to South Africa in January for 3 months hired myself a Busso engined Alfa 156 for the whole time. JOY
This is definitely the case. My lane assist shat itself through some roadworks when the lanes narrowed, passing a lorry on the left and concrete to the right - it started autosteering and pinballing between them. And auto emergency braking, while I understand why it's a thing, it's like driving with a nervous passenger with their own brake pedal, which you simply would never do.
We've had regular steering for 100 years and now suddenly nobody can drive without lane assist.
Hahahaha exactly
Sounds catchy, makes no sense.
People under the age of 50 cant afford homes. Nevermind cars. They are soon to be after thoughts at this rate of decline.
£110,000 loss on a Bentley after 6 months is obscene.
So are most Bentleys.
Overpriced / valued in the first place
Get yourself a Roma for that 😂
Just wait 6 months and buy a used one.
I think people who buy these cars aren't that worried by the depreciation.
There's absolutely nothing obscene about it.
Wow new cars depreciate, who could have imagined? Very expensive cars will, naturally, depreciate by huge amounts. If you enjoy your car, perhaps an Emira, who cares if it's worth less than you bought it for, that's *always* been the case. Cars don't generally increase in value until they've been out of production for years--when they become classics.
Love the shout-out to Jay Emm. Terrific presenter in my opinion, really like him a lot. Funny, extremely articulate, very knowledgeable, and very humble. Love his channel.
Funny, I feel like I’d much rather get a pint and chat cars than watch his videos. Don’t like the scripted nature of it and much prefer Harry’s natural presentation
I do feel his videos are about quantity over quality
I find him very patronising and a real know it all, not for me
Humble? Jay Emm? Are we talking about the same person?
He's about as humble as Caligula @@LuisCardoso-bo8yx
The tech isn't the problem, it's the regulation requiring the tech which is the problem.
I’ve lost interest in modern cars, I literally know nothing about the current BMW range for example, but could recite specs for them from 1980 to 2014. The issue is that there aren’t any “car people” coming through to want the cars and that’s only just starting. I’m planning to buy my perfect pre 2018 family car (sporty as possible) and hold on to it until it dies! That’s a sad fact as a chap that goes to 10+ car shows a year and owns a Mk1 golf GTI.
True, if I won the lottery tomorrow I wouldn't be buying an F80, I'd be buying an F40!
LFA
f50 for me, just to look at it in my garage every single second!
@@tanthaman F40 and LFA for less than an F80 🤣 Must be an absolutely tiny market of people both rich AND stupid enough to buy an F80.
F50,.....Its a F1 car for the street.
It seems to me the people pushing these regulations have absolutely no interest in cars whatsoever.
@@boopadin Are you referring to UNECE and the FIA? Or some driving power behind those organisations?
Or more broadly the World Forum for the harmonisation of vehicle regulations?
They want the end of private vehicle ownership and ultimately driverless cars
@@BobCarolgees-p8f To be quite honest, much as I hate such an idea and all that it would mean about monitoring the population, if that is how the future is to be then give me the fully functional service for which the government is entirely responsible when things go wrong.
At least that would make the design of the system simpler. No need to take into account random or erratic actions from humans.
If journeys need to be even slower to make the system work, so be it. At least the travellers could do something useful for themselves whilst travelling.
Self conducting vehicles on the HS2 structures might make those structures somewhat useful too.
Oh, they have a big interest in cars.
One important point i think he misses with regards to the regulated tech in these cars is the ability of the government to disable your car if they so wish, whether that's because you've exceeded your 'carbon footprint' for the month or whether tax and insurance has expired. Also, every car with a built-in Sat nav, speeding tickets could be automatically given whenever a speed limit is breached. Fines will be automatically deducted from bank accounts. In theory, speeding will be impossible without a fine.
Lol
You're SO right, Harry. Cancelled my subscription to modern car mags a couple of years ago. Will have to keep my 2018 Mustang (and 1973 Alfa and 1987 Ferrrari) forever now.
Don't bother with new car reviews, they're all dross!
Couldn't agree more, I only reed magazines about classic Cars now, because they are much more interesting.
I thought it was just me! I'd had enough of being told how wonderful the latest hypercar was a bargain at over £3m.
They're designed to sell advertising space, not inform customers, that's why you won't get an honest review out of them (Motor magazine in Australia had this issue a few years ago where they crowned the EQC Car of the Year...guess who was a major advertiser in their magazine?)
I cancelled my Autocar subscription quite some time ago now. The Autocar team of today is a shadow of what it was in 2000s and early 2010s.
Many potential reasons ;
1) GOV mandated penalties for not selling sufficient EVs in the mix so prices go up to cover the liability but can't be sustained/justified in a used model.
2) The Tech that Harry refers to that adds complexity and cost competition for the Chips that can't be justified by the 2nd hand purchaser.
3) Finance middlemen that have supported the increase in list prices by providing the funding to allow the purchase at prices beyond the normal persons ability to pay out of income. Come the 2nd hand purchase those customers cannot fund the expected residual.
4) Initial purchases being Company or business financed in most cases and the 2nd hand private market can't absorb the expected residual.
5) Private consumers are maxed out and a) are young and don't drive/don't want cars, reducing the market, b) simply unable to finance the expected residual.
6) GOV generally making motoring much more expensive year on year and basically forcing people away from ownership reducing the potential market.
I'm sure other will add some more.
ah yes the tech that's so expensive you can only find it on the highest of high end cars and notat literally any pricepoint.
the goddamn Dacias have all the tech so that argument just doesn't work
Excellent points,all of them. I would add pathological hatred of cars by climate taliban which has taken over governments around the world.
Just one pearl from here in Haarlem,Netherlands - "Green party" in our municipal government succeded 3 years ago in closing down of all local Shell gas stations (!) because Shell "isn't doing enough in lowering its carbon emissions". In Switzerland few elderly ladies sued their own government for "polution" (co2!),here in Netherlands too,and THEY WON. We are pouring concrete in our own gasfields just like you british into your old coal mines to prevent us to use them ever again.
The lunatics have taken over the asylum.
Excellent and fairly accurate points. Especially #3, without the finance industry they can't play these games. Nobody would buy. Same as the healthcare industry in America, without financing from health insurance companies hospitals and Big Pharma would not be able to charge what they charge here.
PCP madness in the UK, meaning you’ll own nothing and be happy 😉
I have family who drive new cars, yet they are so cash poor, they couldn’t afford a set of tyres tomorrow; let alone the massive balloon payment.
To much unwanted tech is ruining drivers cars.
Can thank the EU
@@markgt894still blaming the EU? People not making special cars for your island?
@@truantray who else is creating the emission regulations, speed warning systems etc etc? Get your head out the sand
Two much*
It is no longer unwanted tech it is politically mandated tech.
hit the nail on the head regarding driver involvement Harry. Emotion is key and manufacturers seem to be forgetting this. Good for us that build Restomods though!