@@Good.Nuff.Gaming Is that a joke? GW sold out with 3rd edition. It was intentionally dumbed down to increase model count and buy into an international market. The company has been in bed with the corporate side of the business far longer than it was a passion project. Even if you don't consider butchering your game for profit to be selling out then every edition since has been corporate lead and listening to any ex-GW employee will tell you the same thing.
I just watched the 40k episode of Secret Level. It was a bit cryptic, and folks who aren't familiar with the franchise, specifically the Space Marine games, will be a bit lost on what's happening, but the visuals, animation, sound, everything else, is incredible. Dare I say...it was really grimdark.
@@Good.Nuff.Gamingthat episode was great, showed some of the real psychic powers that are hard to show in tabletop games which was fun, and the real powers of space marines in regular combat
The Tolkien estate stopped caring what happens when Christopher died, I can't say what happened with wheel of time though. There are stories of GW putting the kibosh on whole games because a purity seal was missing or a gun was slightly bigger than it should have. At the very least if it's shit it'll be correct.
"Where decisions are made based on bottom lines by people who probably never touched a miniature their entire lives" - so business as usual for at least 15 years (or even more, we could count since Priestley's departure as its the exact thing he warned people about). Warhammer is not for players. It's for shareholders and it's been that way for a while now. It's just GW never had that golden opportunity present itself.
Let me answer that inquiry with one of my own: Tell me of a big entertainment company right now who doesn't suck? ALL of them are going down, and GW hasn't because SM2 was made by a studio who cared about the source material. GW and Amazon? They will turn it into another Bioware or Ubisoft's styled cash grab.
@@Ayahuasca98 I was thinking miniature war games. It can be hard to get player for things not GW. But more players in general means more people who might try something else.
I think the Horus Heresy book franchise has also done a lot to increase market share. I think that GW will have more control over what Amazon does with their IP than the Tolkien estate did which should lead to better quality control and someone telling them to pound sand if they change things too much. Also after Cavel's rather public row with the netflix producers of the witcher he is also likely to have a contract that limits what can be done to change the script too far from the contents of the books it was based on, or will at least allow him to depart without having to give up any money.
There is simply too much capital going around, and a company like GW is quite unique in the stock market, because of the product they have. Therfore, everybody invests in GW, stock prices rise, so do expectations, until the tipping point gets reached where further value extraction is no longer possible. Once the revenue starts going level, they will go after the workforce. Notably, with all the capital GW has, they are not really investing in manufacturing apparently. Stuff is still sold out for months at a time. Once the thing crashed, capital will get extracted, and if we're lucky, there still will be a company producing things. However, that is unlikely.
Part of GW's plan is to make sure things are always sold out or at risk of selling out. They don't have a casual audience with their prices. So they have to constantly push FOMO and hype up the next thing like it's a one time shot. Their prices hinge on it.
I have mixed feelings about this. On one side, I'm glad that GW is doing so well. But on the other hand this type of news saddens me that Grimdark my become less so. As a side note I had to stop playing 40k because I was essentially priced out of the game. And it sounds like I will never be able to afford to go back to it.
It’s going to a disaster. Maybe Cavil can hold them off for a season. But if he makes them something that is a big hit, the idiots will descend on the second season like flies and ruin it
I welcome the watering down and broad appeal phases. It'll grow the brand MIGHT result in new lore and new "tourist" players who will get into the hobby for a bit and leave. Once they move on the new player base will be larger than it was. Which is good for the hobby. And the crazy dark stuff gw pushed to the side so the tourists wouldn't leave immediately will. Come back. Same thing happened when comics went mainstream. Now they are just as crazy and dark as they used to be. So just be patient friends.
That's an interesting comparison. How long was it before the comics went back? And is it because the kids who bought in when watered down became adults and wanted something more mature? I can see that happening, but won't the watering continue for the next generation?
Not saying it won't take time but yeah it was about a decade. And these days dark mature comics are now huge (the boys, invincible, Deadpool movies, Logan). @@Good.Nuff.Gaming but yeah it starts with a really Saturday morning cartoon version of Spider-Man. So as long as it becomes mainstream in a big enough way you'll get the dark back eventually.
40k is already watered down several times over. Every major edition reboot waters the game down further, then they bloat it back up and water it down again. Most people who get into 40k don't stick around very long, so they keep having to lower the bar.
In my experience people come and go every few years. I'm VERY old and have been playing since I was a kid because my father was the kind of nerd who played chainmail before it was D&D. This has always been a hobby that ebbs and flows. But this GW push could create a new high water mark for 40k, and if it gets enough people into the hobby, other tabletop games. In my decades of getting people into the hobby I find that a lot of people like wargaming but need the right setting/rules. I actually had a lot of luck in the early days of canhammer and still have a group for it. And one page might be simple but it's perfect for getting kids involved. My nieces and nephews play OPR and MCP now. But the oldest wants to learn 40k now because he watched a live play and liked the options. So be patient and be involved and you'll have a group.
I love it! It lets GW pound in the message that the IoM is the true BBEG, it means more casual players which means more proxies and less people caring if armies are painted or not. All of that is good and it's why things like BattleTech has such a better fandom. You say "Yes GW listen to your fans" well.... They are. A 3rd of their fans are from that IP related games/leasing and GW is listening to them AND the people they can bring in. I have zero problem with GW fleecing tournament players while selling "pre painted but lesser quality" mini toys for those who just want to play the table top version of the TV show/movie/anime of 40k they can see (eventually). Plus more things like wolf helms and femstodes, which as someone who's been in this hobby since the 90s, are the kind of things GW needs to be lean into.
I can’t think of anything that’s ever gotten better after getting more popular.
Opr is one, however I think the world ur thinking about is probably mainstream
There's a line between popular and "sell out." I think they have one foot on either side right now.
@@Good.Nuff.Gaming Is that a joke? GW sold out with 3rd edition. It was intentionally dumbed down to increase model count and buy into an international market. The company has been in bed with the corporate side of the business far longer than it was a passion project. Even if you don't consider butchering your game for profit to be selling out then every edition since has been corporate lead and listening to any ex-GW employee will tell you the same thing.
The amazon series needs a scene with a bunch of generals going over battle plans, using the actual miniatures.
Then a soldier walks in and says, "playing games in your workshop, general?"
@@mrbrusselpatch316"That's correct! Except Private Johnson forgot to Paint the Citadel."
Amazon's Rings of Power and The Wheel of Time are both terrible. Hopefully Henry will keep the honest with a 40k show but I'm not holding my breath.
I just watched the 40k episode of Secret Level. It was a bit cryptic, and folks who aren't familiar with the franchise, specifically the Space Marine games, will be a bit lost on what's happening, but the visuals, animation, sound, everything else, is incredible. Dare I say...it was really grimdark.
@@Good.Nuff.Gamingthat episode was great, showed some of the real psychic powers that are hard to show in tabletop games which was fun, and the real powers of space marines in regular combat
The Tolkien estate stopped caring what happens when Christopher died, I can't say what happened with wheel of time though. There are stories of GW putting the kibosh on whole games because a purity seal was missing or a gun was slightly bigger than it should have. At the very least if it's shit it'll be correct.
Who knows, maybe the investors will run the classic strip mine operation on GW. It would be justly deserved.
"Where decisions are made based on bottom lines by people who probably never touched a miniature their entire lives" - so business as usual for at least 15 years (or even more, we could count since Priestley's departure as its the exact thing he warned people about). Warhammer is not for players. It's for shareholders and it's been that way for a while now. It's just GW never had that golden opportunity present itself.
I hate it when I'm right about things like that.
Let me answer that inquiry with one of my own: Tell me of a big entertainment company right now who doesn't suck? ALL of them are going down, and GW hasn't because SM2 was made by a studio who cared about the source material. GW and Amazon? They will turn it into another Bioware or Ubisoft's styled cash grab.
The taint of Slanesh is strong at HR, well see if the emperor really protects
One good thing is that a larger player base means more people who might take an interest in non GW games as well
If playerbase means warhammer video games (aka secondary stuff) then it is meaningless
@@Ayahuasca98 I was thinking miniature war games. It can be hard to get player for things not GW. But more players in general means more people who might try something else.
@ true. I agree :v
At least you have a store. The closest to me is 90 miles away
Yikes! Closest FLGS is that far?!
@Good.Nuff.Gaming yeah it is to a game store. But there is a small group of players in my area at least
I think the Horus Heresy book franchise has also done a lot to increase market share. I think that GW will have more control over what Amazon does with their IP than the Tolkien estate did which should lead to better quality control and someone telling them to pound sand if they change things too much. Also after Cavel's rather public row with the netflix producers of the witcher he is also likely to have a contract that limits what can be done to change the script too far from the contents of the books it was based on, or will at least allow him to depart without having to give up any money.
There is simply too much capital going around, and a company like GW is quite unique in the stock market, because of the product they have. Therfore, everybody invests in GW, stock prices rise, so do expectations, until the tipping point gets reached where further value extraction is no longer possible. Once the revenue starts going level, they will go after the workforce.
Notably, with all the capital GW has, they are not really investing in manufacturing apparently. Stuff is still sold out for months at a time.
Once the thing crashed, capital will get extracted, and if we're lucky, there still will be a company producing things. However, that is unlikely.
Part of GW's plan is to make sure things are always sold out or at risk of selling out. They don't have a casual audience with their prices. So they have to constantly push FOMO and hype up the next thing like it's a one time shot. Their prices hinge on it.
6:32 This is getting dangerously close to math. 😂 👏 OUT.
Imma say it!!!! let's hope they don't Wheel of Time it.......
I have mixed feelings about this. On one side, I'm glad that GW is doing so well. But on the other hand this type of news saddens me that Grimdark my become less so.
As a side note I had to stop playing 40k because I was essentially priced out of the game. And it sounds like I will never be able to afford to go back to it.
Good ‘nuff reporting😂
😎👍
Hey now, that's not true about the codexes! They also used to contain new lore.
Yeah, that's valid. I was on a bit of rant there.
It’s going to a disaster. Maybe Cavil can hold them off for a season. But if he makes them something that is a big hit, the idiots will descend on the second season like flies and ruin it
More DEI AMAZON
if they leave out the DEI stuff and modern day politics it should be fine I think.
I wonder how many millions they made from people that played space marines 2 then bought their first models off the hype. I did lol
I welcome the watering down and broad appeal phases. It'll grow the brand MIGHT result in new lore and new "tourist" players who will get into the hobby for a bit and leave. Once they move on the new player base will be larger than it was. Which is good for the hobby. And the crazy dark stuff gw pushed to the side so the tourists wouldn't leave immediately will. Come back. Same thing happened when comics went mainstream. Now they are just as crazy and dark as they used to be. So just be patient friends.
That's an interesting comparison. How long was it before the comics went back? And is it because the kids who bought in when watered down became adults and wanted something more mature? I can see that happening, but won't the watering continue for the next generation?
Not saying it won't take time but yeah it was about a decade. And these days dark mature comics are now huge (the boys, invincible, Deadpool movies, Logan). @@Good.Nuff.Gaming but yeah it starts with a really Saturday morning cartoon version of Spider-Man. So as long as it becomes mainstream in a big enough way you'll get the dark back eventually.
40k is already watered down several times over. Every major edition reboot waters the game down further, then they bloat it back up and water it down again. Most people who get into 40k don't stick around very long, so they keep having to lower the bar.
In my experience people come and go every few years. I'm VERY old and have been playing since I was a kid because my father was the kind of nerd who played chainmail before it was D&D. This has always been a hobby that ebbs and flows. But this GW push could create a new high water mark for 40k, and if it gets enough people into the hobby, other tabletop games. In my decades of getting people into the hobby I find that a lot of people like wargaming but need the right setting/rules. I actually had a lot of luck in the early days of canhammer and still have a group for it. And one page might be simple but it's perfect for getting kids involved. My nieces and nephews play OPR and MCP now. But the oldest wants to learn 40k now because he watched a live play and liked the options. So be patient and be involved and you'll have a group.
Warhammer had a good run….
GW sold out years ago!!
Absolutely nothing good comes from bringing normies into this space. Let weirdos discover it naturally, as it should be.
I love it! It lets GW pound in the message that the IoM is the true BBEG, it means more casual players which means more proxies and less people caring if armies are painted or not.
All of that is good and it's why things like BattleTech has such a better fandom.
You say "Yes GW listen to your fans" well.... They are. A 3rd of their fans are from that IP related games/leasing and GW is listening to them AND the people they can bring in.
I have zero problem with GW fleecing tournament players while selling "pre painted but lesser quality" mini toys for those who just want to play the table top version of the TV show/movie/anime of 40k they can see (eventually).
Plus more things like wolf helms and femstodes, which as someone who's been in this hobby since the 90s, are the kind of things GW needs to be lean into.
nobody plays anythig but 40k all other games are dead thanks to thsi trash
Some communities are super 40k focused, and it's hard to get people to try a new one when they are so heavily invested.
My local gw plays fantasy and AOS a lot xD and even blood bowl I feel lucky
Does Killteam still count as 40k?